Race & Ethnicity On TV

[Neurochick]

--I do think that black showrunners like Shonda Rhimes also have a responsibility to examine their portrayal of black characters. I like that Shonda creates complex characters who are allowed to be smart, feminine, tough, flawed, and vulnerable, all at the same time. But for a character like Olivia Pope, I think she should examine, or at least acknowledge on the show, that there is historical context when you see a dream sequence with a black female character having sex with two white men (not the same time--there was creative editing that jumped from scene to scene). Some people would argue that it's just TV and that I'm overreacting--white women are constantly caught in love triangles. But in a country where a little over 150 years ago, black people were the property of slave owners, and black women were often raped by different members of the owner's family, that scene was problematic for me.

 

 

And you can also argue that a black woman was seen as an object of desire, which you really don't see on TV.  It's always the white woman who is lusted after by every man, white, black, etc.

[paulvdb]

It's always the main female character who is the object of desire. And that main female character is usually white, but there are some new shows with black main female characters who are objects of desire. On shows that I watch there are Abbie on Sleepy Hollow and Iris on The Flash.

[arc]

Bye Felicia sounds an awful lot like Girlfriend Intervention:

 

White women of LA are getting a serious confidence boost and a little dose of reality with the series premiere of “Bye Felicia!,” premiering Tuesday, December 9 at 9PM.  This 8-episode, hour long series follows Atlanta-based life coaches Deborah Hawkes and Missy Young as they set out to help white girls across the Los Angeles area. Each closed-ended episode aims to empower two different women who could use a dose of honesty in order to turn their lives around.  Hoping to impart their unique experience and wisdom through motherly tough love, Deb and Missy teach these women to say hello to their better selves and goodbye to Felicia.

[...]

Life in Los Angeles isn’t easy. While it may seem that a stereotypical white girl is always counting calories, wearing UGG boots and spending more money on clothes for their Chihuahua than on themselves, dynamic duo Deborah and Missy set out to manage problems that go deeper than just the surface.

[topanga]

 

Bye Felicia sounds an awful lot like Girlfriend Intervention:

This is a real show? Or is it a parody?

[ribboninthesky1]

I'm waiting for "The Shade of It All," "Thotism," and "Slay Dragons" to be announced.  

Edited November 18, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[phoenics]

So apparently there is a new Sleepy Hollow comic out and the cover literally made me see red.

 

Yet another comic cover that DOES NOT GET IT.  The writers really think we're stupid don't they?  I swear, it's almost like they're trying to write Abbie out.  And we know they get story direction from the showrunners and writers - which means this mess was sanctioned by them.  

 

https://www.comixology.com/Sleepy-Hollow-2/digital-comic/164098

 

Katrina is LARGER than Abbie!??!  Worse, the description LEADS with Katrina as though she's the main character and Abbie is just along for the ride.  To be fair, the first comic did much the same thing.  

 

And people wonder why POC are so sensitive and protective of characters of color - it's because this kind of ish happens way too much.  It's exhausting sometimes.

[Sparger Springs]

I wrote on the old TWOP boards in the middle of last season that they would bring Katrina from the void and marginalize Abby. Somethings are so predictable.

[Bruinsfan]

It hasn't really seemed to me that Abbie is being marginalized this season, but I definitely get that impression for Jenny and Captain Irving. I fail to see how most of the plot contributions by New Skeevy Blond Guy couldn't be made just as plausibly and with added emotional impact by writing those scenes for Jenny instead. And Irving was one of the shining highlights of the show last season, who is sorely missed now. (I also am completely over Neil Jackson being featured as the whiny, petulant Not-So-Headless Horseman, though since Jeremy Owens who was previously out-acting him without use of his head is also white, there's no net change to the racial balance there.)

[Neurochick]

To me Abbie is being marginalized in favor of Katrina, a character who I feel is useless and is sucking the life out of the show.  But yes, Jenny and Irving have been practically erased from the show.  

 

You see, THAT'S what happens when you "New York Undercover" a show.  When will showrunners learn to never, ever, ever, ever, ever try to appeal to a "broader" audience.  In TV, if the show is good, the audience will come.  

[nicepebbles]

I'm on vacation so I've had time to catch up on this thread. A few thoughts:

- I refuse to watch anything involving TP because after giving him a chance with WDIGM, he went and made a shitty sequel. That's all I'll say about that because I don't want to get my blood pressure up that high. Livid best describes my reaction. I don't knock his hustle. I just can't support what he puts out.

- I'm not even going to read that article about that dude with Nick. Asshole! Mr. Nice and I love Sanjay and Craig with the kids or by ourselves. We love that he's Indian. And Hector is Hispanic. (His grandmother is a little problematic though.)

- I really hope John Cho's new show is worthy of his talent. I miss him and Gabrielle Union on Flash Forward.

- I think Blackish is hitting the right notes so far. My husband and I are like the couple on the show but reversed.

[briochetwist]

To me Abbie is being marginalized in favor of Katrina, a character who I feel is useless and is sucking the life out of the show.  But yes, Jenny and Irving have been practically erased from the show.  

 

You see, THAT'S what happens when you "New York Undercover" a show.  When will showrunners learn to never, ever, ever, ever, ever try to appeal to a "broader" audience.  In TV, if the show is good, the audience will come.  

 

While I'm not loving the direction of the show this season, I don't really think Abbie's being marginalized so much as I think they're trying to push some sort of Outlander-like 'love for the ages' type crap between Ichabod and Katrina.  Having said that, I think the ultimate goal is to set up some sort of lame love triangle between Ichabod/Katrina/Abbie.  

 

On the other hand, Jenny and Captain Irving, yeah, they're totally getting screwed.

[xaxat]

It looks like ABC will be adding be adding another show featuring a POC lead to go along with Blackish and Fresh Off the Boat. Bollywood star (and insanely gorgeous individual) Priyanka Chopra has signed a development deal with them. 

[Trini]

Speaking of Fresh Off the Boat, there's a forum for it now.

 

http://forums.previously.tv/forum/1353-fresh-off-the-boat/

[Ankai]

It looks like ABC will be adding be adding another show featuring a POC lead to go along with Blackish and Fresh Off the Boat. Bollywood star (and insanely gorgeous individual) Priyanka Chopra has signed a development deal with them. 

Priyanka Chopra is a pretty huge deal in India. I have seen only...three and a quarter movies with her in it. I absolutely hated the movie Krrish, but that was not her fault at all. I watched part of Don, but got bored and stopped watching forty-five minutes in. I saw Fashion and thought that it was okay. I absolutely loved the movie 7 Khoon Maaf, but it seems to have not done very well in India. Oh well. There does not seem to be much information about this new project, so it is unclear whether she is playing Indian, Indian American or...erm...Middle Eastern.

 

So, I watched Marco Polo because it was about Kublai Khan and it was...okay. I figured going in that it would exoticize the story as much as possible, and it pretty much did that. There were other issues, of course. And the show probably would have been served better had Kublai or someone else in the court have been front and center instead of the only White character for most of the series. Still, I enjoyed it for what it was. And, of course, a whole lot of Actors of Asian and Middle Eastern descent. Benedict Wong was wonderful as the Khan. Chin Han and Joan Chen were great too. The cast beyond that was a mixed bunch, but I did not mind the actor playing Marco quite as much as others seemed to.

[xaxat]

Quartz has a really deep dive (with a lot of noted limitations) into the number of black female/white male couples over the last couple of decades of television.

[Trini]

Quartz has a really deep dive (with a lot of noted limitations) into the number of black female/white male couples over the last couple of decades of television.

Stating the obvious, I know, but the main thing I got from that is that black people are STILL ridiculously under-represented on TV (and the media, in general).

 

Was 2014 a Banner Year for Asian Americans on TV? -- Seriously? John Cho didn't get top billing for Selfie?

[BuddhaBelly]

I'm liking Ezekiel Jones on The Librarians. They're playing his against all the Asian stereotypes and that's all I could ask for. He's not even American which makes it better since it still trips people out to see minorities speak with accents they don't expect. 

[ribboninthesky1]

Stating the obvious, I know, but the main thing I got from that is that black people are STILL ridiculously under-represented on TV (and the media, in general).

 

Was 2014 a Banner Year for Asian Americans on TV? -- Seriously? John Cho didn't get top billing for Selfie?

 

I just read this, and was flabbergasted.  Does that mean that Karen Gillan got top billing over him? I didn't know who the hell she was before the show, and Cho was the reason I tuned into the pilot.  John Cho might not be a household name, but I'm willing to bet he's a lot more recognizable than Gillan is with American viewers. 

 

Alas, he wasn't enough to keep me watching. Gillan's character annoyed me out of the gate, and I have a much lower tolerance for irritating "protagonists" than I used to.  I'm ambivalent about Fresh off the Boat, but hopefully, it will get better ratings. I plan to watch.

 

I remember the Mindy Kaling discussion on the TWOP forum, and I feel the same way now as I did then, especially after watching several episodes - I don't think she needs to be held to a standard that white showrunners, the overwhelming majority, generally aren't held to.  It reminds me of something Shonda Rhimes said when she's asked about diversity on TV - I can't find the exact quote, but it was along the lines of, "You need to talk to the white showrunners..."  Which, yeah, pretty much.

 

As an aside, given how bigoted the character of Mindy, and others, can be on her show at times, it actually makes sense that she's surrounded by mostly white people.  Not because all white people are bigoted, but it makes sense that some of the questionable things said on the show would likely fly over many whites' heads, or they'd be too uncomfortable to call it out.

Edited January 1, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[galax-arena]

Well, I give Lena Dunham a lot of crap about Girls, along with Ryan Murphy and Michael Patrick King for Glee and 2 Broke Girls, and I give Friends and Sex & the City retroactive crap, so I personally feel comfortable giving Mindy some crap, too. :D

Edited January 1, 2015 by galax-arena

[selkie]

I'm a little curious to see if Fresh Off the boat manages to get Orlando demographics right. While there isn't much of a Chinese population in Florida, Orlando does have a significant Vietnamese population, and I'd actually be impressed if they managed to work in a joke about the Huangs getting mistaken for the Nguyens.

 

But hey, it's Hollywood. They don't normally admit that anything smaller than Miami might have some subtle diversity going on.

[ribboninthesky1]

Well, I give Lena Dunham a lot of crap about Girls, along with Ryan Murphy and Michael Patrick King for Glee and 2 Broke Girls, and I give Friends and Sex & the City retroactive crap, so I personally feel comfortable giving Mindy some crap, too. :D

 

Ha! That's fair.  I was thinking in a general way, as it seemed like Mindy was somehow more accountable than her white peers in the industry, which never made any sense to me. In the (admittedly few) articles I've read in the past on it, I perceived a subtext of "white showrunners are oblivious, so they're not expected to cast for racial and ethnic diversity" vs "non-white showrunners should be more enlightened, so they have to."  If that makes any sense. I'm fairly certain Shonda Rhimes would be taken to task if she wasn't a long-time proponent of "color-blind" casting.   

[Wax Lion]

 

Well, I give Lena Dunham a lot of crap about Girls, along with Ryan Murphy and Michael Patrick King for Glee and 2 Broke Girls, and I give Friends and Sex & the City retroactive crap, so I personally feel comfortable giving Mindy some crap, too. :D

 

Yeah, from where I'm watching, the people disappointed in the lack of diversity in "Mindy"'s writing room are the same people rolling their eyes at all the shows depicting diverse cities as all-white. I find it disingenuous for Kaling to call it a double standard, especially since it pretends that shows like Friends, Girls and Sex and the City didn't get critics (a lot of that criticism did get erased by media ignoring it). And it ignores how shows with white (IIRC) showrunners like Brooklyn Nine-Nine, Community and New Girl did get praise (and some criticism in New Girl's case) for diversity.

 

However, I do think there's some extra disappointment in Kaling because 1) there's the hope that someone who had to work harder because of her race and gender wouldn't be satisfied shutting the door behind her and 2) at least part of why her fanbase supported her from those early "Office" days was the thrill of having an Indian-American woman's voice on TV -- it's a little disappointing that a voice that was thrilling for being different gets a bigger venue and ends up offering even less of what made her exciting.

[Trini]

I'm a little curious to see if Fresh Off the boat manages to get Orlando demographics right. While there isn't much of a Chinese population in Florida, Orlando does have a significant Vietnamese population, and I'd actually be impressed if they managed to work in a joke about the Huangs getting mistaken for the Nguyens.

 

But hey, it's Hollywood. They don't normally admit that anything smaller than Miami might have some subtle diversity going on.

 

The show is set in 1995, BTW -- if that makes a difference in the number of Vietnamese.

[Raja]

The show is set in 1995, BTW -- if that makes a difference in the number of Vietnamese.

The explosions of Vietnamese happened after 1976 when the north overran the south. Once they left their initial sponsors and started to congregate together in communities

[jhlipton]

Anyone see Galavant?  There was one comment that set me off:  A black squire says that he loves to "fetch" for his white master, Sir Galavant.  I don't know if this was an oblique reference to Stepin Fetchit, but I took it as one, and cringed.

[xaxat]

It's either that, or the knight has trained his squire like he would a dog.

 

Not good either way.

[galax-arena]

I haven’t seen Galavant, although I just heard that they have a multiracial Asian woman playing a princess, which makes me a lot more interested in seeing it than I would have been otherwise. And then there’s a black guy, although the above comments have me a bit wary. Still, it just reminds me of all the times when people would complain over the lack of diversity in European-based fairy tales or medieval legends, only to be told that it wasn’t ~realistic to expect diversity because Europe apparently had no POC back then. And because we’re supposed to expect realism re: POC demographics in shows featuring fire-breathing dragons and sorcery. Or, in this case, musical numbers. 

Edited January 6, 2015 by galax-arena

[Luckylyn]

The line where he says he loves it when Galavant tells him to fetch things sounded sarcastic to me.   It was supposed to be an honor to be Galavant's squire but all he does he drink and sleep.  So, his squire doesn't hide his disappointment.    I'm pretty sure when he says love to fetch he really means hates.

[jhlipton]

I haven’t seen Galavant, although I just heard that they have a multiracial Asian woman playing a princess, which makes me a lot more interested in seeing it than I would have been otherwise. And then there’s a black guy, although the above comments have me a bit wary.

 

There are two princesses, one white, one who calls herself "Chinese, Indian and a sliver of Jewish heritage".  And it was just the one line, which could easily have just been me over-reacting.  So more diverse than, say, Once Upon a Time.

If you think you might like a Princess Bride-Spamalot mashup, you should give it a try.

[galax-arena]

So more diverse than, say, Once Upon a Time.

Not giving up hope that my fave Mulan will someday return!

 

 

(I was never that crazy about The Princess Bride, even if I quote it occasionally. That probably qualifies as an unpopular opinion.) 

[xaxat]

Not giving up hope that my fave Mulan will someday return!

 

Black Lancelot lives!

 

(Somewhere.)

[jhlipton]

(I was never that crazy about The Princess Bride, even if I quote it occasionally. That probably qualifies as an unpopular opinion.) 

 

That counts as heresy!

[venusnv80]

Anyone see Galavant?  There was one comment that set me off:  A black squire says that he loves to "fetch" for his white master, Sir Galavant.  I don't know if this was an oblique reference to Stepin Fetchit, but I took it as one, and cringed.

I cringed too. I didn't see sarcasm in that scene either, he seemed happy to fetch things. I don't know...

[Rick Kitchen]

Anyone see Galavant?  There was one comment that set me off:  A black squire says that he loves to "fetch" for his white master, Sir Galavant.  I don't know if this was an oblique reference to Stepin Fetchit, but I took it as one, and cringed.

 

It was totally a sarcastic comment.  Sid is sarcastic.  It's part of his character.

[allyw]

I watched the show twice and not once did I see Sid look happy when saying that line. His expression was more "yeah right". 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

It was totally a sarcastic comment.  Sid is sarcastic.  It's part of his character.

 

I saw it too, they re-aired the pilot the other night, and although Sid was smiling when he said he loved fetching for Galavant, it was the smile of somebody who isn't trying to be funny.

[Rick Kitchen]

I saw it too, they re-aired the pilot the other night, and although Sid was smiling when he said he loved fetching for Galavant, it was the smile of somebody who isn't trying to be funny.

 

No, I agree.  It was sarcastic, not funny.

[Trini]

Short article about BET's The Book of Negroes panel at the TCA press tour. I mainly wanted to comment about the mention of the Roots re-make. I'd heard about it, but I didn't know it was going to be on the History channel. Now I'm even more anxious about it.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Trini

[Trini]

So in the last episode, Galavant's little band are congratulating themselves for being "very diverse" (2 out of 3 people); while the rest of the show's actors and extras are 95% white. And no, arguments based on how white Europe was hundreds of years ago are out, because the show is NOT historical and part of the comedy is the ridiculous anachronisms.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Trini

[arc]

Eddie Huang on Fresh Off The Boat:

After 18 months of back and forth, I had crossed a threshold and become the audience. I wasn’t the auteur, the writer, the actor, or the source material. I was the viewer, and I finally understood it. This show isn’t about me, nor is it about Asian America. The network won’t take that gamble right now. You can’t flash an ad during THE GAME with some chubby Chinese kid running across the screen talking shit about spaceships and Uncle Chans in 2014 because America has no reference. The only way they could even mention some of the stories in the book was by building a Trojan horse and feeding the pathogenic stereotypes that still define us to a lot of American cyclope. Randall was neutered, Constance was exoticized, and Young Eddie was urbanized so that the viewers got their mise-en-place. People watching these channels have never seen us, and the network’s approach to pacifying them is to say we’re all the same. Sell them pasteurized network television with East Asian faces until they wake up intolerant of their own lactose, and hit 'em with the soy. Baking soya, I got baking soya!

 

It doesn’t sound like much, but it is. Those three minutes are the holy trinity Melvin, Randall, Constance, Hudson, Forrest, Ian, and I sacrificed everything for. Our parents worked in restaurants, laundromats, and one-hour photo shops thinking it was impossible to have a voice in this country, so they never said a word. We are culturally destitute in America, and this is our ground zero. Network television never offered the epic tale highlighting Asian America’s coming of age; they offered to put orange chicken on TV for 22 minutes a week instead of Salisbury steak … and I’ll eat it; I’ll even thank them, because if you’re high enough, orange chicken ain’t so bad.

 

But for all the bullshit I heard at studios about universal stories and the cultural pus it perpetuates, I felt some truth in it for those three minutes. It takes a lot of chutzpah to launch a network comedy with a pilot addressing the word c****, yet it works because it’s the safest bet the studio could have made.

[ApathyMonger]

Just watched Amazon's new batch of pilots. As well as the many, many issues with Point of Honor which I'm sure people more qualified than myself will go into*, I think it's worth pointing out that in six scripted shows, there are only three black regular characters, two of whom are slaves in Point of Honor who get nothing to do.

 

*look at Ta-Nehisi Coates' Twitter from Jan 7 for a start.

[xaxat]

I tapped out half way through Point of Honor. It is awful, both in concept and execution. 

 

It does look like there is at least one, and perhaps two, substantial Japanese/American roles in The Man in the High Castle.

 

I haven't seen any of the others.

[Rick Kitchen]

 

It does look like there is at least one, and perhaps two, substantial Japanese/American roles in The Man in the High Castle.

 

There had better be, or the whole series wouldn't make any sense!

[galax-arena]

Fresh Off the Boat Cast Gets Racist Question at TCA Panel

 

 

The panel’s very first question of the day came from an unknown reporter who said, “I love the Asian culture. And I was just talking about the chopsticks, and I just love all that. Will I get to see that, or will it be more Americanized?”

Oh God, I don't know if it's the sleep deprivation kicking in, but I just find this guy absolutely hilarious. "I love the Asian culture! I was just talking about the chopsticks!" I mean, what? 

Edited January 19, 2015 by galax-arena

[ribboninthesky1]

What in the utterly oblivious, hipster racist hell? That idiot had to be trolling.  No way was that a serious question. 

[Bella]

I'm clearing a space on my desk so I can bang my head against it. That's just ... unspeakable.

[arc]

What in the utterly oblivious, hipster racist hell? That idiot had to be trolling.  No way was that a serious question. 

Maybe, but it lit up television critic Twitter and (nearly?) everyone who tweeted about it in the moment thought it was a sincerely ignorant question.

[ApathyMonger]

According to Alan Sepinwall and Dan Fienberg, it wasn't even a TCA member, but someone specifically brought in by ABC to ask questions.

 

[Pacodakat]

It never fails, I decide to watch a show because they feature people of color, sometimes multiple, sometimes just one very interesting person and then while I start to love that character and become invested in their story, the producers kill the character off because of “stakes” or marginalize the character to the point where they hardly matter anymore. Lately the show runners and producers are doing something even more shitty. 

 

I purposely watch shows with AA females and it seems like they prominently feature the AA female until the showrunner’s girlfriend or wife whispers in their ear that maybe they want to see the white female character get more time and then the AA female is pushed more to the back and the lead W male turns his attention to the white female, whether she is a lead or not. Why tease me show runners? Why emphasize the chemistry between the AA female and the W male if you aren’t going to follow through with a relationship? Why tease me that the AA female will be a significant character if you aren’t interested in writing a storyline for the AA woman?

 

It’s so disheartening to get excited about a show and have them pull the rug out from under you. I’m still depressed about Sleepy Hollow; I had to stop watching after about 4 episodes this season. And now the producers and writers of The Flash are hinting that Barry, the lead, may have a thing for Caitlin, his co-worker, and Iris may not be the end game. WHY!? Why tease the fans? I would have watched regardless of a romance between Iris and Barry because I love Jessie L Martin and the show seemed very light and fun. They didn’t have to bring a romance between the flash and Iris into it, I would have been fine if she was just Barry’s adopted sis and best friend, but now they’ve made it awkward and weird and teasing that the romance could be shelved for good. Abandoning the whole OTP relationship.  I love the show but I don’t think I can stand to watch it if he starts dating Caitlin because I see it as white washing a storyline. Undermining a POC character and putting in a white character.

 

I barely watch TV anymore because I need to see people of color in my shows in significant storylines, it’s 2015 and it’s past time. This shouldn’t be an issue anymore. Especially women of color, we exist damn it and we should be represented on the small screen and large screen, period. Stop screwing with me showrunners don’t get  my hopes up and then stomp on them.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Pacodakat

[Rick Kitchen]

Are you watching "Empire"?