S02.E12: Reunion

[jonesingjay]

For the record, I have heard of Richard Burton as one of Liz Taylor's husbands, but I have no background knowledge of what their relationship was like or what that means as an anology for Kathryn and T-Rav--and I'm 41.

 

[SunnyBeBe]

If someone compared my relationship with a lover to that of Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, I would be very concerned.  It was volatile, shady and dysfunctional.  Some may romanticize it, but it wasn't all that, IMO.  In fact, I think by today's terms it would be one you might have to get restraining orders for.

[Bronzedog]

I thought the best part of the reunion was Craig explaining that he and Kathryn were in different holes on the beach. What a doofus.

[LoveMyVike]

Wait wait wait wait wait.  I just caught it again.  Cameron was on the Real World?  Which one????

The first San Diego season. I didn't know she got producer credits on this show. I still like her better than the rest.

TRav admitting he is stalking Kathryn was creepy. Shep looked even worse than he did all season. If he " didn't care" about all of Craig's "transgressions", why make a list?

[psychoticstate]

If someone compared my relationship with a lover to that of Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, I would be very concerned.  It was volatile, shady and dysfunctional.  Some may romanticize it, but it wasn't all that, IMO.  In fact, I think by today's terms it would be one you might have to get restraining orders for.

 

Not to mention that Burton was a well known drunk.

[cooksdelight]

If someone compared my relationship with a lover to that of Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, I would be very concerned.  It was volatile, shady and dysfunctional.  Some may romanticize it, but it wasn't all that, IMO.  In fact, I think by today's terms it would be one you might have to get restraining orders for.

I think it's the perfect comparison. Add to that what psychoticstate added about Burton being a drunk. He still managed to function enough to work, but when at home and drunk, they fought like cats and dogs. I think Andy called this one perfectly.

[imjagain]

Imo the reason I can't see them as Richard and Liz is because as messed up as L&R were, at least they weren't dragging a child with them. They were in an abusive relationship. I hope K&T have not gotten violent with each other.

And Andy was trying to romantize a very dysfunctional relationship. So shame on him. K&T and their daughter will be better off without all this tiresome drama.

[scrb]

I don't know much about Burton and Taylor but they were in the tabloids all the time and the big deal was he gave her one of the biggest diamonds ever in one of their reconciliations.

 

Also wasn't he a lot older than her?

[IKnowRight]

If someone compared my relationship with a lover to that of Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, I would be very concerned.  It was volatile, shady and dysfunctional.  Some may romanticize it, but it wasn't all that, IMO.  In fact, I think by today's terms it would be one you might have to get restraining orders for.

I can say, as one of the posters who mentioned it, that I don't think other posters and I know I don't think that's a good thing nor was I romanticizing it. I just thought it touches on the type of love/hate over the top crazy love that Liz & Dick showed the world. Whether a child was involved is irrelevant, I just thought Whitney saying it and Andy also mentioning it tells me that it's a fair comparison. Not a perfect or dead on description of Thomas & Kathryn but it gives one who knew about their relationship a hint at what this couple seems to resemble. Obviously Kathryn is no Liz Taylor...

Dick & Liz had a passionate, volatile, crazy relationship and married twice. It had to be the one comment Whitney has made that I thought was a spot on observation.

I can't imagine that kind of crazy in my life!!

[psychoticstate]

Are we sure that Andy was romanticizing TRav and Hozo when he compared them to Burton and Taylor?  I'm not so sure.  I think maybe he was just drawing comparisons between two couples that fought constantly (fueled by alcohol, no doubt), had a love/hate type relationship and yet couldn't stay away from each other.

I'm wondering if Thomas thought of Kathryn as his manic pixie dream girl.

From what I've read about Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, there was mutual respect which is lacking here.

 

I'm wondering if Thomas thought of anything other than getting laid.

[SunnyBeBe]

I thought Andy was comparing them in a romantic kind of way to Taylor and Burton and that it was almost like a special thing.  You know, like if you don't pull each other's hair out, you might be gloriously happy for ten minutes.  lol  

[scrb]

"I'm wondering if Thomas thought of Kathryn as his manic pixie dream girl."

 

She doesn't look anything like Zooey Deschanel.

[SFoster21]

Not to mention that Burton was a well known drunk.

Elizabeth Taylor had substance abuse problems as well. Burton became abstemious eventually and she did not, and that was a factor in their estrangement.

He was not appreciably older; he was a married man when they met. So was she, having famously married Eddie Fisher after he divorced Debbie Reynolds. But she pursued him and, though his wife had turned a blind eye to his myriad affairs in the past, she finally left him to Elizabeth. There were children between them. They lasted several years.

They both married again, more than once, to others.

After both their deaths, it evolved that they had been in touch daily until his death. There is no comparison with the tawdry and unappetizing situation between Kathryn and Thomas.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

 

Shep's response is to immediately launch into said feeling-hurting impression?!

This is a perfect example of the mendacious editing in this ep.  Shep did not immediately break out with his impression.  If you watch it again, note that there was a discussion where most everyone was making a side comment, including Cameran's "hurt feeling" remark.  Suddenly, we get a video cut to some disjointed shot which had nothing to do with the group discussion,  Then, out of nowhere, we hear Shep start the impression.  Then, we get to see Shep's performance.  The sequence is crucial.  If Shep had instantly broken out with his impression in real time as you said, it would have been a compelling thing to show, and it would have been.  

 

In my home, my folks had a baby girl who was more than a decade younger than my youngest brother, and who was the absolute light of the family.  My rotten father couldn't give two ***** about me and my older siblings, but boy oh boy, he took a shine to the baby.  Everyone did.  When my mom finally found the courage to leave him, she got the bare minimum support decree for us.  Our dad refused to pay through the court clerk. as was required for it to be counted.  What he did do, was dote over the youngest.  He spent serious money on her, refusing to ever make formal payments.  It wasn't an issue of my mom being a spendthrift or irresponsible.  He was just  consumed with resentment that he had been rejected.  And, nobody was going to tell HIM how to manage his affairs!!!!!

 

Beyond the obvious cray cray in K, I see much the same arrogance in Thomas that my father, and so many more like them, own.  It would not surprise me in the least if Thomas shelled out some bigtime cash for Kensie's clothes and schooling.  They will most certainly have wonderful adventures, travelling to the best places.  All of that won't count against his court obligations.   In all honesty, I don't see why K should receive more than the ~$25K/year.  Also, there is every likelihood she will marry.  

Now, it could well be the case that Thomas is such a sociopath that he never truly loves Kensie and will simply do everything he can to avoid his responsibility.  My guess is that, if for no other reason than to maintain a shred of dignity with his social friends and his family, he will at least play the part of a loving Dad.  I don't see any way he would still be accepted in the social circles which are his life blood at this point.  He knows this.  Even my lousy father understood this.

[SFoster21]

My daughter was talking over the last 5 or so minutes of the show when T-Rav and Kathryn were talking, so I missed what they were saying, but they had pained, lovelorn expressions. Were they expressing their love and getting back together after all of that destroying each other business earlier on?! That was hilarious when Kathryn was saying how OVER it is and that they were last together 3 entire--or maybe even 4--weeks ago! And then everyone else was cracking up because, duh, yeah, they obviously are caught in this back and forth turmoil, but neither Kathryn nor T-Rav seem to recognize that. Oh, and the other part of their fighting that cracked me up was when Kathryn was saying how Thomas cheated on her with a lesbian wrestler, T-Rav said that Kathryn was with her first! But, wow, they are exhausting. They are for sure 100% impassioned in the extremes. But the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference, so the fact that they get so worked up over each other shows the emotions are still there. If one of them ever stopped caring what the other one was up to and would call off the private investegators and FB rants, then maybe they'd really be over-over, but I think at this rate they're going to keep it up ad nauseum. For the record, I have heard of Richard Burton as one of Liz Taylor's husbands, but I have no background knowledge of what their relationship was like or what that means as an anology for Kathryn and T-Rav--and I'm 41.

At the time that they were most white-hot, I was in high school and I'm 67, so it makes sense that it is not well known to someone your age. But believe me, Princess Di, Kardashians, name it . ... they were bigger.

When I was in high school, I saw that a woman was on an old Time cover as Woman of the Year: Wallis Warfield Simpson. When I asked my mother who that was (a woman was Man of the Year? great!), she never answered me; instead, called her friends to report on this phenomenom of ignorance!

[jumper sage]

Both Thomas and Whitney look like skeevy old men.

[thefog]

What a huge miss for BRAVO by not having the reunion at Patricia's house. 

 

This is one of the best shows they have.  I hope it returns for a 3rd season.

Edited June 3, 2015 by escape

[bravofan27]

I feel that Thomas is over Kathryn. He flat out said that he thought they should be "friends." In my experience, when a man tells you that, he's over you. He may hook up with you and still want to go out and have fun, but he isn't interested in committing. I've scared away plenty of men in my day, I know the signs when you have blown it. I don't think Thomas is being a pervy old man, I think he is acting like a horny college student that has a psycho ex that he hangs out with but hides from his friends. 

 

Kathryn really has fallen. She started living on the plantation, with Thomas, her baby, and she had a nanny. That was the on-screen scene. 

Then she wanted to live in town which lasted it seems like a day. Thomas wasn't there, she didn't have a nanny, and the baby ended up at the parents house and she was out with friends. The next on-screen scene.

 

Now, she is living with her parents and Thomas does not want to live with her. At all. I see drugs and escorting in her future.

Edited June 3, 2015 by bravofan27

[scrb]

Moderator said Thomas was polling 11 percent just before the arrest.

 

That would have been a respectable showing and he could have swung the election.  If Graham lost, it would have been national news.

 

Wonder if he blames the stylist and by extension Kathryn for his final vote tally.

[BluishGreen]

If I was Thomas's attorney, I would tell him to get off this show and shut the fuck up and get off all social media.  He has evidenced terrible errors in judgment.  I just can't believe someone who has a legitimate business and a good family name and a small child would be this much of a famewhore.  It is not going to look good AT ALL for him that he told the mother of his child on television that he had her followed and that he would destroy her.  The court will look at the best interests of the child when awarding custody, and he's not doing himself any favors here.  Katherine may be a few sandwiches short of a picnic, but from the limited amount of time we've seen her on the show with Kensie, she seems to be a good mom, and wants to be with Thomas.  Even though we've seen her have a few rough morning afters, she arranged alternative child care for her daughter, and I don't think a judge will have an issue with a mom taking a break once in a while.

 

Thomas also seems pretty fatalistic.  I think given enough time, he could probably win another election, but probably not against an incumbent like Graham.  I mean, Mark Sanford was re-elected (he succeeded Arthur Ravenel in the house of reps) despite his disappearance/extra- marital affair scandal.  It seems that the people of South Carolina can forgive, but Thomas just has to stop fucking up and stop putting it all out there.

 

I loved, loved this show first season.  The chemistry, the quirks of the cast, the charm, the old money, the shameless strumpets and the locale was just perfect.  But unfortunately, as with most reality shows, the cast was too affected by their own press, it seems.  I'll probably watch, but it has lost the magic for me.  Nothing gold can stay. 

 

Balshureen,  Robert Frost, no less-- you are the coolest! 

[Lola16]

Are we sure that Andy was romanticizing TRav and Hozo when he compared them to Burton and Taylor?  I'm not so sure.  I think maybe he was just drawing comparisons between two couples that fought constantly (fueled by alcohol, no doubt), had a love/hate type relationship and yet couldn't stay away from each other.

 

I'm wondering if Thomas thought of anything other than getting laid.

Yes.  Thomas talked about a heir, settling down with the right woman from the right lineage.  Talked to his pastor, JD, other castmates about that and Kathryn in particular. 

[cooksdelight]

Then Kathryn showed her crazy side and all bets were off. She hasn't learned the art of keeping a man salivating for her every move.

[mbaywife123]

Then Kathryn showed her crazy side and all bets were off. She hasn't learned the art of keeping a man salivating for her every move.

She was obviously never schooled in the art of having a man think about you in a good way in his head all day and in his bed all night.

[Lola16]

Then Kathryn showed her crazy side and all bets were off. She hasn't learned the art of keeping a man salivating for her every move.

Kathryn showed her immature wild side early on.  Thomas wanted a young'un with an old soul (barf).  What T didn't count on was K not instantly maturing after birthing a baby.  No sympathy from me for anyone but Kensie.

[Petunia13]

But it seems that they are back together and watched the reunion together. How sweet....NOT. Gross.

https://twitter.com/kathryn_dennis/status/605560571371614208

One minute at each others throats on national tv, the next cuddling and showing it off publicly... What in the name of Whitney's hair plugs is going on?

[silversage]

I wonder if Thomas feels differently towards Kathryn when Whitney is not around. He seems to influence Thomas more. At least it seemed like that at the reunion.

[pasdetrois]

Kathryn's just going through the Acting School 101 motions now - desperately trying to reel in Thomas as well her Bravo career. I don't think we're seeing a single genuine moment from her.  His sex-addled brain is finally figuring it out.

 

When I posted that Thomas will figure out a way to pay for Kensie's support while bypassing Kathryn, I hadn't seen the reunion. As they were hurling legal threats at each other, Kathryn said that he had offered to pay for housing, a car, and I think she said insurance. This method of support is increasingly common with shared custody; it ensures the money goes directly to the child's benefit. Kathryn's money grab is going to fail. Kathryn isn't entitled to anything - Kensie is.

 

Whitney, your efforts at dignified aristocracy are going to fail if you keep snarling comments like "I don't care where Thomas sticks it."

 

Cameran's hair was gorgeous. She has a very skilled colorist. She cleverly stays out of the fray.

 

I found myself FFing through the more viscious arguments. I can't stand too much of that kind of thing, and it's going to ruin this show's delights.

 

The lighting didn't do some of them any favors. It was especially unflattering to Thomas, Shep and Landon - they were all sitting on the same side.

 

C'mon Bravo, spring for a better set than that shabby little "clubhouse."

[DrSparkles]

I think this entire cast is pretty smart. Some are wittier/quicker on their feet than others (slower: Kathryn & Craig).

T Rex is repulsive.

[iloveit]

 

When I posted that Thomas will figure out a way to pay for Kensie's support while bypassing Kathryn, I hadn't seen the reunion. As they were hurling legal threats at each other, Kathryn said that he had offered to pay for housing, a car, and I think she said insurance. This method of support is increasingly common with shared custody; it ensures the money goes directly to the child's benefit. Kathryn's money grab is going to fail. Kathryn isn't entitled to anything - Kensie is.

 

I know nothing about child support issues so forgive me if this is ignorant but I tend to agree with this.  Is Kensie really lacking anything at this point?  Is Thomas helping with the nanny or other childcare (I think he should be)? I would think that in the future, Thomas would pay for her schooling and other necessities. Why does Kathryn deserve more money from Thomas?  They were never married. It's not like she is not of able mind and body to get a job.  Should she never have to work a day in her life (as Cameran predicted) because she had a kid with Thomas?  This is not to say that Thomas isn't a total ASS because he definitely is!!!! This is not meant to be a defense of Thomas!!

Edited June 3, 2015 by iloveit

[wootza]

What was with the Ronald McDonald ensemble TRAV was wearing? He's looking haggard... 

 

Whitney looks so pathetic when he snickers and snorts over picking on Kathryn.... 

 

What gets me, is  how TRAV can sit there and not defend Kathryn when Whitney gangs up on her - he's no southern gentleman.  She is the mother of his child and for that he owes it to her to defend her... 

[cooksdelight]

I think deep down inside, Thomas resents Kathryn for all the untold episodes where she's embarassed him in public. That's why he lets Whitney be his bulldog.

[Lola16]

When I posted that Thomas will figure out a way to pay for Kensie's support while bypassing Kathryn, I hadn't seen the reunion. As they were hurling legal threats at each other, Kathryn said that he had offered to pay for housing, a car, and I think she said insurance. This method of support is increasingly common with shared custody; it ensures the money goes directly to the child's benefit. Kathryn's money grab is going to fail. Kathryn isn't entitled to anything - Kensie is.

I heard differently (but maybe not accurately).  What I heard was that Kathryn claimed that Thomas promised her that he'd give her a house to live in, a car to drive etc if she had his child.  Now that she's had his child and things are rocky between them, he's offering $2,500/month instead.   If Kathryn wanted a payday for a baby, she'd have been better off with a basketball player with those big fat guaranteed contracts.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Lola16

[Neurochick]

Both Thomas and Whitney look like skeevy old men.

 

Goodness, I wouldn't want to live in a world where 45-50 is considered "old."

 

What gets me, is  how TRAV can sit there and not defend Kathryn when Whitney gangs up on her - he's no southern gentleman.  She is the mother of his child and for that he owes it to her to defend her...

 

 

But Thomas is over Kathryn, he doesn't give a shit.  I'm not from this school where just because a woman had a baby with someone, he's supposed to defend her from insults.  Kathryn isn't his daughter, she's a grown woman.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Neurochick

[cooksdelight]

 

Goodness, I wouldn't want to live in a world where 45-50 is considered "old."

 

It's not in my world.... but they do look older and sort of worn out. As my friends would say, like a horse that's been rode hard and put away wet.

[PickleDeeDee]

 

The clubhouse is a lame place for a reunion.  This should have been a 2 parter, in some gorgeous historic SC location with a follow-up unaired footage episode.

I totally agree, all of those tchotchkes in the background looked like a cheap sports bar.  It was the opposite of Southern glamour. Such a disappointing venue for the reunion.  

[scrb]

Did K apologize to Landon at the reunion and then more recently mocked her on Twitter with some reference to "a delusion of grandeur?"

[jkitty]

I think Kathryn should sue Thomas for fraudulent inducement or breach of an oral contract. From the conversations in season 1, it sounds like he promised her certain things (car, house, financial assistance) that would allow her to not work and care for their child if she got pregnant. In reliance on those promises, Kathryn allowed Thomas to get her pregnant. He made it clear in season 1 he wanted a child and it appears he promised Kathryn certain things to get what he wanted. She relied on those promises to her detriment. She has been damaged by his failure to perform. Whether it seems uncouth or not, Thomas made an agreement and should not be allowed to back out after Kathyrn performed on her end. If anything, if feel like the manipulator in this situation was Thomas, not Kathryn.

[cooksdelight]

Did K apologize to Landon at the reunion and then more recently mocked her on Twitter with some reference to "a delusion of grandeur?"

 

Yes, the reunion was filmed weeks ago. And here we have Kathryn once again displaying that ladylike personality which endears her to so many. *cough*

 

I think Kathryn should sue Thomas for fraudulent inducement or breach of an oral contract. From the conversations in season 1, it sounds like he promised her certain things (car, house, financial assistance) that would allow her to not work and care for their child if she got pregnant. In reliance on those promises, Kathryn allowed Thomas to get her pregnant. He made it clear in season 1 he wanted a child and it appears he promised Kathryn certain things to get what he wanted. She relied on those promises to her detriment. She has been damaged by his failure to perform. Whether it seems uncouth or not, Thomas made an agreement and should not be allowed to back out after Kathyrn performed on her end. If anything, if feel like the manipulator in this situation was Thomas, not Kathryn.

 

Thomas did all that. He provided her with a full-time nanny, a beautiful plantation home, a car to drive.... she wasn't happy. She wanted to be in town. So, he buys a townhouse. She's not happy there, because he was at work or campaigning.

 

There is no making Kathryn happy. Period.

[RedHawk]

She wanted to be in town. So, he buys a townhouse.

 

 

That was a rental. I believe it's the guest/pool house of a larger home owned by a friend of Thomas's.

 

That said, he did provide her with a home in town so she could be close to her friends and the nightlife. I don't blame her for wanting that. It seemed like he had left her alone out on the plantation to go galavanting, and then he got into the ridiculous Senate race and had little time for her or his infant daughter. I would have felt abandoned, bored, and lonely in that situation as well. They're both immature and crazy, but things might have gone a tiny bit better if, like Shep, Thomas had wanted to stay in cuddled on the couch and watched Netflix more often. Both seem to enjoy the party life too much, however, so who knows.

Edited June 3, 2015 by RedHawk

[jkitty]

Thomas did all that. He provided her with a full-time nanny, a beautiful plantation home, a car to drive.... she wasn't happy. She wanted to be in town. So, he buys a townhouse. She's not happy there, because he was at work or campaigning.

There is no making Kathryn happy. Period.

He only did those things when they were "together." His obligation to fulfill the promises he made to induce Kathyrn to get pregnant should not dissipate because they are no longer living as a couple. In fact, his obligation to perform is arguably more important now that they are not living together. He said he would do these things if Kathryn got pregnant. She did. He hasn't. He is in the wrong.

I am not saying it is a situation that I would choose or that I think someone should strive to, but it is what they appeared to have agreed to. But now that Thomas has successfully manipulated and preyed on a very young woman who was attracted to him and was willling to have the child he wanted in exchange for financial security, he has backed out, had her stalked and threatened to "destroy" her. He is the worst and should be made to live up to the bargain he struck.

[RedHawk]

His obligation to fulfill the promises he made to induce Kathyrn to get pregnant should not dissipate because they are no longer living as a couple. In fact, his obligation to perform is arguably more important now that they are not living together. He said he would do these things if Kathryn got pregnant. She did. He hasn't. He is in the wrong.

 

 

I like the way you think, JKitty!

 

His "I'll destroy you" comment lost me forever. I'm not Team Kathryn but it's horrifying that a 52-year-old man behaves in such a nasty way. There's an easy way out, Thomas. It's called "do what is right", do it through lawyers, get it done asap, and then simply stay away from Kathryn. 

 

What did he say about "all the hotels we've been thrown out of because of her screaming and yelling"? Kathryn stood up and said it was a total lie. I'd like to know -- how many hotels and where? Have they really traveled that much together? Was it more than one? Interesting that we haven't read about this in the tabloids, social media, etc. I know she yells and screams, just as she did at the end of the finale. If she got them thrown out of even one hotel, why would he go with her to another one ever? He's an even bigger idiot and drama queen than she is.

[bravofan27]

I wonder if Thomas feels differently towards Kathryn when Whitney is not around. He seems to influence Thomas more. At least it seemed like that at the reunion.

It seems that way. That is where Thomas actually seems like a high school kid. You want to be cool around your friends and hide that you are hanging out with a girl that is "uncool."  I think Thomas is easily influenced by many people, not just Whitney. When Whitney is around Thomas definitely treats Kathryn differently, it's like a bad back-to-school special. 

Kathryn should not have had a baby without getting married to Thomas. He has no financial obligation to her whatsoever legally. If they would have been married, she would be entitled to so so so much more. Men say all sorts of things when they want sex and are drinking and just want to win something. Unless there is a financial obligation in writing and legal, Thomas does not have to do shit and can say whatever he wants. 

 

It's a cruel world out there. 

Edited June 3, 2015 by bravofan27

[SFoster21]

It seems that way. That is where Thomas actually seems like a high school kid. You want to be cool around your friends and hide that you are hanging out with a girl that is "uncool." I think Thomas is easily influenced by many people, not just Whitney. When Whitney is around Thomas definitely treats Kathryn differently, it's like a bad back-to-school special.

Kathryn should not have had a baby without getting married to Thomas. He has no financial obligation to her whatsoever legally. If they would have been married, she would be entitled to so so so much more.

Said it before; a boy baby would have gotten her the crown and sceptre. She had a girl.

[Lola16]

I though he was renting the townhouse for the show filming?

[jkitty]

 

Kathryn should not have had a baby without getting married to Thomas. He has no financial obligation to her whatsoever legally. If they would have been married, she would be entitled to so so so much more. Men say all sorts of things when they want sex and are drinking and just want to win something. Unless there is a financial obligation in writing and legal, Thomas does not have to do shit and can say whatever he wants. 

 

It's a cruel world out there. 

Why is that ok?  Why do we accept that?  In any other situation, legally if someone makes a promise, you change your position in reliance on that promise, and then the person refuses to perform the promise, you are entitled to collect damages.  The concept has various names: fraudulent inducement (usually involves a lie on which a person relies), promissory estoppel, etc.  Why should women not be entitled to rely on the promise of a man? Why should men be able to say whatever they want to get laid, or get a woman to have their child (either before conception, or to not abort or put a baby up for adoption) but then not have to live up to that word?  We do not accept those actions elsewhere in the legal system.  This should not be different simply because it involves sex and a male/female power dynamic.  It is just another example of institutionalized sexism and misogyny.  "Stupid woman shouldn't have believed him..." Fuck that.  Make these men live up to what they promise. Put up or shut up.  

[jkitty]

I like the way you think, JKitty!

 

His "I'll destroy you" comment lost me forever. I'm not Team Kathryn but it's horrifying that a 52-year-old man behaves in such a nasty way. There's an easy way out, Thomas. It's called "do what is right", do it through lawyers, get it done asap, and then simply stay away from Kathryn. 

 

What did he say about "all the hotels we've been thrown out of because of her screaming and yelling"? Kathryn stood up and said it was a total lie. I'd like to know -- how many hotels and where? Have they really traveled that much together? Was it more than one? Interesting that we haven't read about this in the tabloids, social media, etc. I know she yells and screams, just as she did at the end of the finale. If she got them thrown out of even one hotel, why would he go with her to another one ever? He's an even bigger idiot and drama queen than she is.

 

Ditto.  Thomas is a vile character who thrives on manipulation, power and drama.  Kathryn loves drama too, but she is very young.  Walk into any college campus bar and there are at least 5 Kathryns crying in the bathroom on any given night.  My anecdotal evidence demonstrates that most of them grow out of their love of drama by their mid-to-late 20s.  Kathyrn may well have done so if she had not gotten mixed up with Thomas, who should be well past his drama days but lives in a stunted, uber-entitled state of permanent adolescence.  I feel bad for Kathryn because she seemed particularly adrift for some reasons to which we are not privy (she had dropped out of college, her family seems "off" in that they seemed to push her into/encourage this poor life choice) and vulnerable to Thomas' manipulations.  I am not saying she is not responsible for her choices, but I do think that there was a power imbalance in that relationship in favor of Thomas that he continues to use to threaten and manipulate her with to this day.  

[wovenloaf]

But Thomas is over Kathryn, he doesn't give a shit.  I'm not from this school where just because a woman had a baby with someone, he's supposed to defend her from insults.  Kathryn isn't his daughter, she's a grown woman.

If the father of my children sat there staring at the ground while his "good friend" called me a whore/gold digger/etc., I'd certainly feel justified in considering him a cad!

 

He has no financial obligation to her whatsoever legally. 

That is not true. Just because they are not married does not mean she cannot go to court and get an order of child support. It just means that she will have to establish paternity first (because paternity won't be assumed, due to them not being married). It is not true at all that he can just knock her up and leave without her having any legal recourse. It just makes it a bit more complicated. I guess if you are referring to alimony or something, then you are correct. But she can absolutely get support for Kensie.

Edited June 3, 2015 by wovenloaf

[SunnyBeBe]

 

Why is that ok?  Why do we accept that?  In any other situation, legally if someone makes a promise, you change your position in reliance on that promise, and then the person refuses to perform the promise, you are entitled to collect damages.  The concept has various names: fraudulent inducement (usually involves a lie on which a person relies), promissory estoppel, etc.  Why should women not be entitled to rely on the promise of a man? Why should men be able to say whatever they want to get laid, or get a woman to have their child (either before conception, or to not abort or put a baby up for adoption) but then not have to live up to that word?  We do not accept those actions elsewhere in the legal system.  This should not be different simply because it involves sex and a male/female power dynamic.  It is just another example of institutionalized sexism and misogyny.  "Stupid woman shouldn't have believed him..." Fuck that.  Make these men live up to what they promise. Put up or shut up.

 

 

 

JKitty, It sounds like you are describing promissory estoppel.  It's a legal theory of recovery when an actual contract has not been entered into.  I'm not sure if SC recognizes it or not.  Its application varies by state.  Also, I think the fact that the couple are not married, might have a bearing on it too, since I would suspect that SC still has laws on the books about fornication being illegal.  I'm not kidding.  

 

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Promissory+Estoppel

[jkitty]

JKitty, It sounds like you are describing promissory estoppel.  It's a legal theory of recovery when an actual contract has not been entered into.  I'm not sure if SC recognizes it or not.  Its application varies by state.  Also, I think the fact that the couple are not married, might have a bearing on it too, since I would suspect that SC still has laws on the books about fornication being illegal.  I'm not kidding.  

 

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Promissory+Estoppel

 

Yes, I mentioned promissory estoppel in my comment.  It could also be considered an oral contract because in essence they had a mutually agreed to bargain, she performed he did not.  This could be couched as one of several legal theories.  

[cooksdelight]

Did Thomas utter these promises on film, was it part of last season? If not, it's a he said/she said situation. Who can afford the more powerful attorney to get that thrown out of court?

 

I agree he should provide for his daughter, and I think he will. In a way that Kathryn can't spend the money on clothes or purses.