S03.E23: My Name Is Oliver Queen

[kismet]

Remember in one of the threads when I said after 320 that OQ didn't want to have the same song & dance with FS about going v. not going and he most likely had it without Felicity. Turns out I was correct in a way. OQ had a nightly song & dance w/ FS about him staying. Those dreams might have been amazing & reassuring on one hand, but also completely torturous at the same time. No wonder he always seemed so exhausted & stressed. Poor guy needs a very long vacation with FS by his side.

[Menrva]

Overall, I enjoyed it far more that I thought I would. Not sure if it makes up for slogging through the Dismal Swamp that was season 3.

 

I am very disappointed that Nyssa had to kneel before Malcolm. That left me dissatisfied. And Laurel's interaction with her dad felt very out of place given the situation at hand. And she has no right to take the moral high ground after all the lying and stupid she has done.

 

It's amazing how good Thea looked in Roy's outfit. Even the mask did not make her look like a Ninja Turtle. The seamstress in me was checking it out and thinking, yeah, I could definitely tailor that down to fit Thea. And somehow, it made her look even tinier. Like one of Santa's elves went to Sherwood Forest.

 

So glad Ra's is dead. I never want to hear that name again. But I will. If I decide to come back for S4. Which I probably will. Because I like to complain.

 

I knew it was Felicity in the Atom suit, but that weird under lighting inside the helmet made her look like she was 12. I think it's what made Ray look all bug-eyed in it too.

[tv echo]

MG's episode clarifications/comments at http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/...

pansexualronnieraymond asked:
why in the hell is Nyssa bowing to the straight white man WHO MURDERED HER GIRLFRIEND!!!

I think Nyssa’s point of view is evidence in the scene.  And I don’t see the relevance of Malcolm’s race or sexual orientation.

antonelamastromarino asked:
HI Marc I enjoyed the season finale, but I expected more. I will give it 6/10.Tell me, how is that Oliver didn't bled with those shots? And even being an olicity fan, I didn't like Felicity in the atom suit,sorry. And no kiss at all with oliver? Awesome ending with the palmer's explosion. Don't get me wrong, I love Arrow, I will keep watching, but it seems like all of you (the producers) are so focused on the new spin off, that you all forget about the mother tv show. See you on October !

To answer your questions in order:
– Nyssa explained to Oliver that his League armor protected him from the bullets.
– Sorry, there wasn’t an organic place to put a kiss.
– And please don’t blame the spinoff on creative choices on Arrow you disagree with.  We all recognize that Arrow is the mothership and work tirelessly every single day to maintain its quality.

mess--in--a--dress asked:
Who came up with Lance's "Must be May" line? Whoever did deserves a medal.

That would be me.  And thanks.

jessreneecooper asked:
Why didn't Oliver make Nyssa Ra's? What is the point of Malcolm Meryln?

He owed Malcolm.  It was the nature of the bargain they struck.

weliveandbreathewords82 asked:
Hi Marc! There's a Chesterton quote that is very dear to me and after the finale I think it suits this season. I'm just gonna leave it here. "You cannot love a thing without wanting to fight for it. You cannot fight without something to fight for."

I agree.

laurelismyblackcanary asked:
Hi Marc. I just watched the season finale. And I have to ask you this. In 3x02 Oliver promised Laurel they would get revenge for Sara's death. Can you please explain to me how letting Malcolm become the new Ra's and have Nyssa kneel in front of the man that cause the death of the woman she loves is getting revenge for Sara's death? And while I'm at it how forcing a lesbian character to marry a man and then have her kneel before Malcolm is a fair treatment for Nyssa?

To answer your first question, clearly Oliver didn’t make good on his promise to Laurel.

As for your second question, am I correct in assuming that you believe that nothing bad should happen to a character if s/he is homosexual?

Edited May 14, 2015 by tv echo

[nksarmi]

OMG this was one of many insanely stupid things I couldn't abide, if it's airborne it's airborne, but it's not going to be airborne via anyone's blood, and killing the "carriers" who were *breathing* and *expelling* that *airborne virus* was the EXACT right thing to do. Yes they would also not want to touch any fluids and quarantine the bodies, but JESUS, just snap their necks. I know there are Alias super fans on this board, but this was the kind of Alias level (and subsequently Fringe-level) stupid that made it impossible for me to every watch those shows or take them remotely seriously. If what you mean by airborne virus is actually poison gas just make it poison gas dumbfucks.

 

This is why I will always embrace things like a fucking imaginary LP, and a Canary Cry, rather than see them attempt to be "realistic" at all. Ever. 

I know.  The virus becoming airborne when the blood was exposed to the air was driving me nuts.  I was like no, you can have make believe stuff like the LP and powers, but you can't use bad science.  That doesn't work for me.

MG's comments are interesting, but "Must be May" is a Buffy rip if I've ever seen one.

[arjumand]

mess--in--a--dress asked:

    Who came up with Lance's "Must be May" line? Whoever did deserves a medal.

    That would be me.  And thanks.

 

 

Oh no you didn't. And let's add an, oh, please. See, as someone who has memorized entire episodes of Buffy, I would like to submit for your consideration, "Dawn's in trouble? Must be Tuesday." And Arrow's done it in the past, too. So, whatever, friend. Mind you don't sprain your arm, patting yourself on the back that hard.

 

While I'm glad about the happy ending, I tend to be a suspicious person. And I remember a certain season finale of Veronica Mars, which ended on the fan favourite Logan/Veronica pairing, and then, when we all came back in September, turns out they broke up over the summer and all we had were a few flashbacks. And Veronica was going out with the completely void in charisma guy, who'd had sex with her even though he suspected she might be his sister, and she might have been roofied.

 

So I'm not sure I'm trusting this. Also, Oliver's going to come back, right? I mean, the show's called Arrow, not "The crimefighter formerly known as Arrow". Is he going to make everyone refer to him as 'symbol'? Sorry, that was a Felicity-inspired ramble. What I mean is, when Oliver comes back to Starling, and starts saving his city again, is he going to break up with Felicity again? I'm not sure my heart can take it.

 

ETA: just saw this:

MG's comments are interesting, but "Must be May" is a Buffy rip if I've ever seen one.

 

 

You and I, we are one.

Edited May 14, 2015 by arjumand

[kismet]

^^^ I hope not too. I want Felicity & Oliver together & happy in SC next season. But there is precedence for the happy drive off only to end in couple breaking up upon return. Happened in Felicity & there is still time for an Alias car twist in the season premiere. Sure there are other examples, but Im trying to focus on the positive. Im gonna get out of my suspicious head and jump right back into my happy bubble.

Edited May 14, 2015 by kismet

[Duke Silver]

So endeth the shittiest season of a TV show that I actually used to like.  Good riddance.

[arjumand]

^^^ I hope not too. I want Felicity & Oliver together & happy in SC next season. But there is precedence for the happy drive off only to end in couple breaking up upon return. Happened in Felicity & there is still time for an Alias car twist in the season premiere. Sure there are other examples, but Im trying to focus on the positive. Im gonna get out of my suspicious head and jump right back into my happy bubble.

 

I will join you in this bubble, even though it is against my suspicious nature. And I wish show-runners nowadays would learn from other show-runners' mistakes. It was a mistake to break up Logan and Veronica (such a mistake that Rob Thomas made them endgame when he finally got his movie kickstarted, even though his favourite guy for Veronica was self-insert Piz). I'm not going to mention other couples so as not to cause controversy, but I wish show runners would trust their audience a bit - it's ok if a pairing just happened, almost by magic, and you weren't thinking of it. That just means you have a good casting director, who actually chooses your cast with an eye to people who spark on screen, rather than who should be together as per comic books.

 

So, this summer I will be happy in my Oliver + Felicity 2gether 4ever bubble. So much fanfic, so little time.

[BkWurm1]

Some random thoughts.

 

 

I was surprised that Ra’s was dispersing the virus by human conduit (makes little sense but it's some weird super virus - maybe it defies the laws of science.) Also surprised how many WASPy looking dudes are in the LoA. 

 

 

Jumping back to the beginning of the episode – why did Malcolm and the Team react to the virus by passing out?  They were inoculated!!  Flashback Oliver and Tatsu and Maseo didn’t pass out. 

 

 

Something the episode really did well was one) keep Palmer useful but grounded in a very believable way and two) showcase the brains of both Ray and Felicity.  I really enjoyed both times when one figured something major out only for the other to already be working on it. 

 

 

It was kind of hilarious how Diggle, Thea, Laurel and Nyssa were all just strolling about town through the crowds.  Bet people were feeling bad about killing the Arrow by locking him up. 

 

 

Speaking of costumes.  So Oliver also asks Diggle to think of some kind of identity concealment on the heels of Digg saying he is no mask…so what do we thing that is going to mean?  My latest theory (crazy one) is we might find Diggle going the John Henry Irons aka Steele  which is not a mask so much as a whole suit.  If not something like that, what possibly could not a mask but conceals identity equal?  Ah, things to ponder. 

 

Dig and Oliver parting on a handshake this time made me sad.  It’s better than an active antagonistic attitude but still.  :(  Also, doesn't Felicity deserve a goodbye Diggle?  Are you upset that she's not more upset?

 

Thea and Oliver’s goodbye was sweet and I enjoyed (even if it happened out of the blue) that Oliver now was treating her like an adult even as he kept his big bro vibe by getting the others to call her Speedy. 

 

I liked the brief time we had with Quentin.  For one NOT DEAD!!!!!  Horray!!!!  He’s the Captain but the Chief of Police outranks him so that explains why he had to call Felicity to warn her that “your boy” was at the dam and that he doesn’t want to see “your guy” killed while trying to save the city.  I know, I’m reading into it but I still liked him being called Felicity’s. 

 

I think next season could be interesting with Quentin clearly knowing the truth about Oliver but no one else on the force believing him.  (Except the sniper who shot him – Oliver, keep your hood up.  But points for holding onto the Finger of Ra’s while getting shot and falling over a waterfall and then a short bout of flying) 
I hope though that Quentin goes back to his AA meetings before the show resumes.  I don’t want to have to have downward spiral Lance to go through next season.  Crap, we are probably going to have downward spiral Lance next season.  

Really wonder if Malcolm is going to go nuts with the LP.  He was really against it but he might reason that he could buy off Nyssa with a reanimated Sara even if she was cra cra cause she’d been worm food for a long time.   He could test it on Sara and then go for Tommy. 

 

Oliver is so damn lucky to have Felicity.  She just quit her VP position , a job she was really good at and she seemed to really like (when life wasn’t crapping on her) to go away to an undetermined place for an undetermined time and no one, not Oliver, not Felicity, not Ray spent even a second questioning that she would do it and gladly.

 

Yes there is a part of me that baulks at her giving up a dream job but it was always just her day job.  Team Arrow (or whatever she will now call it in her head) was always her real calling.  I think her quitting speaks to how confident she is of her abilities and her priorities.  She's not worried about her career.  She can't IMO be replaced and that give a girl a lot of confidence and flexibility. 

 

As of my second watch, I now have this notion that as Oliver was helping Felicity to change, they um, had some alone time to celebrate.  This based on the notion that Ray always wore that body suit under the armor and we see Felicity back in her regular clothes (so she had to change, lol) and Oliver just in his LoA jammies and both of them looked VERY cat that ate the canary.  No, not that Canary. 

 

But speaking of Laurel.  Oliver basically said that had he died, his crusade would live on because of her.  THEN he reluctantly included Ray and ruefully added Thea to the list.  I have an issue with his speedy acceptance of Speedy but I also have issues with the “Black Canary” supposedly now picking up yet another person’s crusade.  BC should be driven on her own, not this thing first with Sara and now as one of three making up for the Arrow’s absence.  Anyway moving on.  

 

So Oliver’s dreamt about them escaping and driving away into the sunset.  Ra’s said dreams were either a truth, a desire, or a temptation.  So Oliver’s dreams I would say were all of the above.  A tempting desire made into a truth. 

 

Yeah, it’s a happy place to be.

[statsgirl]

Is there room in that bubble for me?

 

I will hope that the soap opera drama, which the EPs seem to love, will come from making amends with Diggle early in the season and the problems with the Big Bad and the baby drama, not Oliver's relationships with people close to him, and by close I mean Thea, Felicity and Diggle.

[BkWurm1]

All I gotta say is it hit me smack in the feels when he told her that he had been dreaming about her every night since the fall. To me that was the sweetest & most romantic thing I thought I would never hear on a show like Arrow. It really was a nice call back to the dream on the plane & even his comments about Barry dreaming about her. The boy has for it pretty bad. It broke my heart that he felt he couldn't be with her, even though his subconscious & heart clearly wanted to be with her. But then my heart was healed by that amazing smile after the Felicity rescue.

 

Oh, I love the call back to Oliver's comments about Barry.  I ALWAYS felt that Oliver was actually speaking for himself but substituting in day dreams.  It feels like this retroactively confirms he was talking about himself.  I guess this year his dreams started consuming him day and night.   

 

 

 

I think Oliver was smiling because Felicity looked like an adorable mouse in the suit.

 

Ha!  In a post over on Ksite I called her a cute chipmunk. 

 

I really do think that the Nyssa vs. Malcolm conflict is a story being saved for S4 and might be tied into Sara's resurrection.

 

Incidentally, I only just realized the anvil symbolism of Felicity being the one to save Oliver from falling.

Could you expand on what you mean about the anvil symbolism? 

Edited May 14, 2015 by BkWurm1

[kismet]

Always room in the Bubble!! :)

[BkWurm1]

Just saw the trailer for Legends of Justice.  About Palmer:

So I guess Palmer is thought to be dead after the explosion but he was really just so tiny no one saw him.

[Gizmo321]

During the exchange between Oliver and Malcolm ...when Oliver handed over the ring...Malcom asked if they would be enemies again...and Olivier answered that it depended on whether Malcolm follows through wth someting. I'm guessing that Oliver struck a deal with Malcolm to have Sara placed into a Lazarus Pit.....

[statsgirl]

That makes sense, although I'd still like Barry to time travel back and get Sara's barely-dead body instead of the version that's been moulderin' in her grave for the past 7 months.

Edited May 14, 2015 by statsgirl

[lovemytvshows]

Is there any chance to get Nyssa on Legends of Tomorrow instead of wasting her potential on Arrow? She keeps getting the short straw in Arrow with Oliver failing to keep his promise to avenge Sara's death (like MG said) and now having to bow to Malcolm Merlyn who's the new Ra's. She and Sara could have their happy ending on Legends of Tomorrow and continue to kick ass there!

[Cthulhudrew]

I apologize if i this was already answered but, who got the 4th guy?

 

In one of the scenes at Palmer Technologies with Ray and Felicity, you can hear Diggle over the comm saying "We got the 4th guy." So, Dig and Thea.

 

EDIT: I believe his actual phrasing was "Fourth man down," but I'm not 100%.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Cthulhudrew

[nitrofishblue]

I actually loved the show. Remember the show is based on comic book characters so anything is possible. I love a show that panders to my imagination. I dislike all those "reality" shows. Damn, I want to be entertained. I want to let my mind wander while watching. Sure there are lots of things that make you HHHUUUUMMMMM but I don't care. That is why I love the show.

 

I just wonder how they will get Oliver/Arrow back in action for the next season. I love the Oliver/Arrow persona.

[AudienceofOne]

Broad thoughts:

 

I really enjoyed it, far more than the rest of the season so I'm glad I didn't stop watching. I had no problem with Oliver beating Ra's now because Ra's gave him all that extra League training. In fact, during the "brainwashing" episode I was pretty sure Oliver was pretending just to get that extra training to be able to defeat him. Add to that, Ra's wanted to lose, he wanted to die. That was part of his plan.

 

With Oliver going off into the sunset with Felicity, and this show's penchant for killing off female characters to propel the plot of male ones, I can't help being worried that she's toast. Felicity dies, he becomes the Arrow again and the romance spot is opened up for Laurel. I'm just saying: with the way they killed off Sarah and Shado, I can see them doing this.

 

As for the marriage: meh. A marriage is a civil arrangement. Since I doubt Ra's registered it, it didn't happen. Ceremonies mean nothing. I mean, they legally mean nothing. They of course mean something (usually) to the parties involved, which is why we have them. But legally, I could get "married" every day and it wouldn't mean squat if I didn't get register it.

[ohjoy]

I admit to being pretty "meh" about the finale on initial viewing; I've gotten a bit more positive as I've read reactions and been reminded of moments I really enjoyed.

• I was very amused by Oliver's repeated "put the bow down, Nyssa" gesture when they dropped in on TA+. Even after Diggle punched him to the floor, he was still like, "seriously, don't shoot anybody." It just struck me as humorous.
• As an out of pocket scene, I really like the way the Lance family drama scene was played. Very well done on both parts. In context of the activities going on in the current episode (or even the season) though -- ugh. Ain't nobody got time for that.
• I confess to not being into Felicity-in-the-ATOM-suit (I had more of an "aauuugghh -- of course she magically knew how to fly it and get it to match her proportions exactly" reaction than most did) -- but I get the symbolism (now), and whoever called them "adorable little puppies" was on point. THEIR FACES --  the relief and joy was so evident. Adorable indeed.
• LOVED Oliver's goodbye with Thea. "I was thinking -- Red Arrow?" "I already told everyone to call you 'Speedy'." My heart. I always love brother/sister moments with those too.
• I keep hoping that Malcolm's comeuppance (read: beatdown) factors heavily into Season 4A, and then he's gone for good once LOT (they really wanted an acronym for "bunch of random DC characters", didn't they? ;-) ) starts and Sara's character is firmly established as being alive.
• Speaking of LOT: "Ray go boom." Heh. Just when I was starting to tolerate like him. Hopefully he'll get to have a personality of his very own on the new show.

 

It could have been much, much better -- but I guess it also could have been worse. Against my better judgment, I can't quit this show just yet. Although:

antonelamastromarino asked:

HI Marc I enjoyed the season finale, but I expected more. I will give it 6/10.Tell me, how is that Oliver didn't bled with those shots? And even being an olicity fan, I didn't like Felicity in the atom suit,sorry. And no kiss at all with oliver? Awesome ending with the palmer's explosion. Don't get me wrong, I love Arrow, I will keep watching, but it seems like all of you (the producers) are so focused on the new spin off, that you all forget about the mother tv show. See you on October !
To answer your questions in order:
– Nyssa explained to Oliver that his League armor protected him from the bullets.
– Sorry, there wasn’t an organic place to put a kiss.
– And please don’t blame the spinoff on creative choices on Arrow you disagree with.  We all recognize that Arrow is the mothership and work tirelessly every single day to maintain its quality.

Has the man never heard of a pop-kiss?! 'Cause Felicity's comment about having something to do with saving Oliver (in addition to the league gear) was the perfect place to put one.

Edited May 14, 2015 by RandomMe

[AudienceofOne]

I was surprised that Ra’s was dispersing the virus by human conduit (makes little sense but it's some weird super virus - maybe it defies the laws of science.) Also surprised how many WASPy looking dudes are in the LoA.

 

 

Yeah, that made no sense. If the virus was in their blood, then anybody nearby just had to make sure they didn't touch the blood. And if it was airborne then once they were dead, they would stop breathing and only extensive physical contact would infect others. The idea a blood-borne virus became aerosalised when they started bleeding was really dumb. But these shows don't have science so much as !SCIENCE! so I just roll my eyes and roll with it.

[InsertWordHere]

It's a good thing Ra's didn't seem to care about the four assassins he used for cannon fodder, considering he happened to have five available virus carriers who he left to die in Nanda Parbat. Why didn't he just wait until they got to Starling to infect Felicity, Ray, Diggle, Malcolm, and Laurel with the virus then stab them and leave them bleeding in the streets? How much more awful would that be for them to not only die, but to die knowing they're about to sentence thousands of people to the same fate? I apparently have a better mind for these things than the Demon's Head does and that's kind of scary. 

Edited May 15, 2015 by InsertWordHere

[KenyaJ]

All I gotta say is it hit me smack in the feels when he told her that he had been dreaming about her every night since the fall. To me that was the sweetest & most romantic thing I thought I would never hear on a show like Arrow. It really was a nice call back to the dream on the plane & even his comments about Barry dreaming about her. The boy has for it pretty bad. It broke my heart that he felt he couldn't be with her, even though his subconscious & heart clearly wanted to be with her. But then my heart was healed by that amazing smile after the Felicity rescue.

My favorite thing about it is that every time in the dream, he said yes and tried to escape with her. No dangling maybes in dreams. :-)

[statsgirl]

It's a good thing Ra's didn't seem to care about the four assassins he used for cannon fodder, considering he happened to have five available virus carriers who he left to die in Nanda Parbat. Why didn't he just wait until they got to Starling to infect Felicity, Ray, Diggle, Malcolm, and Laurel with the virus then stab them and leave them bleeding in the streets? How much more awful would that be for them to not only die, but to die knowing they're about to sentence thousands of people to the same fate? I apparently have a better mind for these things than the Demon's Head does and that's kind of scary. 

Releasing the virus at them in Nanda Parbat was a test of Oliver's loyalty to him, something that Malcolm and Oliver had worked out in case the plane thing failed.  If Oliver protested, Oliver was the traitor. To use them as carriers in Starling City would have negated the test.

[Pothunter]

During the scene with Quentin and Laurel, and Lance's other appearances, I was thinking 'Vimes wouldn't do that! Be Vimes, Quentin, you won't regret it.'

 

Seriously, these writers need to read Pratchett's Night Watch books cover to cover.

[KirkB]

Hang on. Was what Felicity and the others got hit with in the cell actually the virus? Because if it was, inoculated or not they would still be infected, wouldn't they? So wouldn't they be spreading it just by being in contact with people? I can accept Barry being immune, there probably isn't much his system can't handle, but it seems like the rest of them should still be carriers to an airborne pathogen like that.

[InsertWordHere]

Releasing the virus at them in Nanda Parbat was a test of Oliver's loyalty to him, something that Malcolm and Oliver had worked out in case the plane thing failed.  If Oliver protested, Oliver was the traitor. To use them as carriers in Starling City would have negated the test.

He could have performed the same test after a short (or so it seems on the show) plane ride. Ra's did not know Oliver was going to sabotage the plane. After the plane landed, he could have made the same show out of infecting Ray, Felicity, Malcolm, Laurel, and Diggle with the virus to test Oliver's loyalty, then set them on the streets as they were dying. He just didn't because of plot.

[Morena]

a doubt. Ras really died? MG said there would be two deaths and one would be permanent. We had Ra's and Shrieve. The death that sticks?

[BunsenBurner]

I think the only thing regarding Olicity that I didn't really like was Felicity quitting her job. to go away with Oliver. I need her to come back and run the company :p

 

It was perfect.  Felicity, not knowing that she was actually CEO quit and told RP to look for a new VP. Ray was puttering around with his suit and blew up the top of the building. I doubt he said or did anything to change anything regarding FS because his mind was on the suit. They, OQ and FS will be called back and she will discover that she is the owner and CEO of PI. I thought it was set up really well.

Edited May 15, 2015 by BunsenBurner

[wonderwall]

It was perfect.  Felicity, not knowing that she was actually CEO quit and told RP to look for a new VP. Ray was puttering around with his suit and blew up the top of the building. I doubt he said or did anything to change anything regarding FS because his mind was on the suit. They, OQ and FS will be called back and she will discover that she is the owner and CEO of PI. I thought it was set up really well.

 

I like your optimism :) I can only imagine Felicity's face when she finds out she's the CEO :D

[Chaser]

I just need Oliver to bring her coffee. Just once. At least. Please. Lol

[catahoulamama]

a doubt. Ras really died? MG said there would be two deaths and one would be permanent. We had Ra's and Shrieve. The death that sticks?

 

Maybe he was referring to Ra's, and then Ray's presumed death in the explosion. Ra's sticks and Ray's obviously doesn't...unless everybody on that spinoff *is* dead. LOL

 

OT, yet still related - as a word and grammar nerd, I'd love to know how to correctly make "Ra's" possessive...Ra's'? (looks stupid and wrong)

[Cthulhudrew]

OT, yet still related - as a word and grammar nerd, I'd love to know how to correctly make "Ra's" possessive...Ra's'? (looks stupid and wrong)

 

How about "Ra'zzz"? :D 

[arjumand]

With Oliver going off into the sunset with Felicity, and this show's penchant for killing off female characters to propel the plot of male ones, I can't help being worried that she's toast. Felicity dies, he becomes the Arrow again and the romance spot is opened up for Laurel. I'm just saying: with the way they killed off Sarah and Shado, I can see them doing this.

 

 

Yeah, about that. I just had a similar horrible thought last night (European time zone here) and I kind of need to be talked off a ledge this morning.

 

In the season ender of The Flash, Barry's going back in time to save his mom. He's going to change the past. I am terrified that next season, Barry will be all skipping through the meadows, happy he saved his mom, decides to visit his buds in Starling.

 

Sample dialogue:

 

Barry:  "Where's Felicity?"

Oliver: "Who?"

 

AND SCENE.

 

Barry, you asshole, don't fucking do it.

[calliope1975]

 

In the season ender of The Flash, Barry's going back in time to save his mom. He's going to change the past. I am terrified that next season, Barry will be all skipping through the meadows, happy he saved his mom, decides to visit his buds in Starling.

 

Sample dialogue:

 

Barry:  "Where's Felicity?"

Oliver: "Who?"

 

AND SCENE.

 

Barry, you asshole, don't fucking do it.

 

That's basically what happened in the Flashpoint Paradox animated movie. (I haven't read that Flash story line in the comics.) Barry saves his mom and it fucks shit up with all the DC characters. It's so dark, though, I can't see them trying that on The Flash. 

 

Sadly, your scenario is not as crazy as I would like it to be. Though, in all honesty, I don't really think the CW would let them kill Felicity off. She's too much of a draw critically and commercially.

[arjumand]

That's basically what happened in the Flashpoint Paradox animated movie. (I haven't read that Flash story line in the comics.) Barry saves his mom and it fucks shit up with all the DC characters. It's so dark, though, I can't see them trying that on The Flash. 

 

Sadly, your scenario is not as crazy as I would like it to be. Though, in all honesty, I don't really think the CW would let them kill Felicity off. She's too much of a draw critically and commercially.

 

I'm holding on to that with both hands right now. I'm not usually that invested in characters who aren't the lead (I felt the same way about Buffy, but her name was the fricking show title, so there was no way she'd be written out), but I really like this character. And I like who Oliver becomes when he's with her. Aagh. Now I have to watch The Flash - I got bored with it mid-season and I only watched crossover episodes.

 

I don't really believe she'll be written out - but there might be a reset. Fuck resets, seriously.

 

Barry needs to read A Sound of Thunder and realise that fucking with the past is never a good solution.

Edited May 15, 2015 by arjumand

[catrox14]

Well shit. I kind of hate all of you right now for putting that out into the universe :(.

 

Of course, Barry could do a good thing if Oliver and Felicity are in a car wreck.

[wonderwall]

You know what? I change my mind about Felicity quitting her job. I'm just reading all these posts made by fake feminists talking about how Felicity quitting her job shows that she has no agency and how it shows that she isn't a feminist/feminist icon or whatnot and it just boils my blood. 

 

Felicity chose Oliver over a job. She chose happiness over a job. She can get a job anywhere she wants because being VP or CEO at PT isn't her passion, computers are her passion and she can get a job regarding computers anytime anywhere. Never in the history of Arrow has it shown that Felicity values her job more than anything else. In fact, I feel as though for Felicity, she doesn't value her job as much as she values the people she loves, her happiness, and crime fighting... And that's not such a bad thing?

 

I say kudos to Felicity for going all in and finding her happiness in Oliver.

[arjumand]

Well shit. I kind of hate all of you right now for putting that out into the universe :(.

 

Of course, Barry could do a good thing if Oliver and Felicity are in a car wreck

 

Sorry! My mind goes to the dark places! Maybe it's the opposite, like you said - something bad happens and Barry's reset reverses it.

[olicityfan25]

I thought the producers said this flash thing doesn't effect season 3 of arrow.

[Jillibean]

I don't really believe she'll be written out - but there might be a reset. Fuck resets, seriously.

 

Barry needs to read A Sound of Thunder and realise that fucking with the past is never a good solution.

 

I highly doubt time travel on The Flash will affect Arrow. Although they're related, they're two separate shows, and it's not fair to Arrow's audience to start making huge, course-altering adjustments based on what's happening on a different show that they may or may not watch. The producers are, I'm sure, aware of that. They already had one time reset on The Flash, and it didn't affect the Arrow world at all. The only way I could ever see it happening is during a big crossover where everyone has to work together to reset time--and even then, I doubt it would have long-term effects, maybe just canceling out one bad event. 

 

To add to the wacky science surrounding the virus, I'm not a medical doctor, but wouldn't you have to be inoculated more than a couple of hours prior to exposure to a virus to be immune?

Edited May 15, 2015 by Jillibean

[kismet]

It was perfect.  Felicity, not knowing that she was actually CEO quit and told RP to look for a new VP. Ray was puttering around with his suit and blew up the top of the building. I doubt he said or did anything to change anything regarding FS because his mind was on the suit. They, OQ and FS will be called back and she will discover that she is the owner and CEO of PI. I thought it was set up really well.

 

 

I like your optimism :) I can only imagine Felicity's face when she finds out she's the CEO :D

So she technically resigned from her job as VP, not CEO. So does that mean the resignation does not stick, even though he took her out of the computer system. RP was already gonna have to look for a new VP. There is some irony there.

[apinknightmare]

She resigned from the job she knew she had. She can own Palmer Tech SC without working there-so, even though she resigned, as long as RP filed the transfer of ownership papers he had her sign, they should still be good whether she resigned or not, but who knows with this show.

[kismet]

I just need Oliver to bring her coffee. Just once. At least. Please. Lol

I really just need OQ to be her EA for at least a month. Coffee & all. Maybe make some dinner reservations, only this time for them.

[kismet]

You know what? I change my mind about Felicity quitting her job. I'm just reading all these posts made by fake feminists talking about how Felicity quitting her job shows that she has no agency and how it shows that she isn't a feminist/feminist icon or whatnot and it just boils my blood. 

 

Felicity chose Oliver over a job. She chose happiness over a job. She can get a job anywhere she wants because being VP or CEO at PT isn't her passion, computers are her passion and she can get a job regarding computers anytime anywhere. Never in the history of Arrow has it shown that Felicity values her job more than anything else. In fact, I feel as though for Felicity, she doesn't value her job as much as she values the people she loves, her happiness, and crime fighting... And that's not such a bad thing?

 

I say kudos to Felicity for going all in and finding her happiness in Oliver.

Agree. I feel that I am a feminist & value equality. But I did not really have that big of a problem with her leaving her job at Palmer Tech, then again it seemed like a temporary break to me anyway. The writing could have been a little better in that scene & they could have left the Ray computer scene out, considering they rarely wrap up over stuff so clearly/visually especially this season.

 

But happiness & life balance can be just as important as a high power job. How could anyone really turn around and decline Oliver over a job at that moment? The man said he dreamt about her for every night for at least 6 months, publically declared wanting to be with her over everything else. He was willing to give up his life to keep her & all of SC safe. She owed it to herself to drive off into the sunset and see where it would all lead. Plus she loves him, and sometimes you sacrifice things for love. She will eventually get back to her career.

[arjumand]

I highly doubt time travel on The Flash will affect Arrow. Although they're related, they're two separate shows, and it's not fair to Arrow's audience to start making huge, course-altering adjustments based on what's happening on a different show that they may or may not watch. The producers are, I'm sure, aware of that. They already had one time reset on The Flash, and it didn't affect the Arrow world at all. The only way I could ever see it happening is during a big crossover where everyone has to work together to reset time--and even then, I doubt it would have long-term effects, maybe just canceling out one bad event. 

 

 

 

Ok, I am officially off the ledge and have climbed in through the window.

 

Jokes aside, thinking about it rationally, you're right, it doesn't make sense to have a show-changing event on another show. Also, I am slightly consoled by something in the speculation thread - a poster said that Oliver/Felicity were like Monica/Chandler, i.e. endgame, and I remembered two episodes of Friends where everything was different but Monica and Chandler found each other anyway. Which would be even cuter on a show with actual time travel, and then at the end Barry restores the status quo. Buffy did it well, and at the same time demonstrated the problems with a plot like that - it's really static and self-contained, and none of the characters learn anything or grow in any way.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I highly doubt time travel on The Flash will affect Arrow. Although they're related, they're two separate shows, and it's not fair to Arrow's audience to start making huge, course-altering adjustments based on what's happening on a different show that they may or may not watch. The producers are, I'm sure, aware of that. They already had one time reset on The Flash, and it didn't affect the Arrow world at all. The only way I could ever see it happening is during a big crossover where everyone has to work together to reset time--and even then, I doubt it would have long-term effects, maybe just canceling out one bad event.

 

But, per the recent trailer for Legends of Tomorrow,

it's going to frequently contain time travel as part of the stories which would probably affect the entire world, including Starling City and Central City.

[Menrva]

How about "Ra'zzz"? :D 

And now all I can think of is Ra's al Ghul doing jazz hands. Thanks. ;) 

Edited May 15, 2015 by Menrva

[apinknightmare]

But, per the recent trailer for Legends of Tomorrow,

it's going to frequently contain time travel as part of the stories which would probably affect the entire world, including Starling City and Central City.

I think they're going to have to keep the effects contained to specific events that don't change a whole lot in current time. Time travel on one show that effects the storylines of two others is not only a hot mess to keep track of, but it's a really quick way to start losing your audience, who might not want to have to watch all three to figure out what's going on in the one they DO watch.

That's why I wouldn't worry about Barry doing something over on The Flash that's going to affect Arrow, especially since Arrow's already over for the season. I'm sure whatever happened in this ep will stick.

Edited May 15, 2015 by apinknightmare

[nksarmi]

I think they're going to have to keep the effects contained to specific events that don't change a whole lot in current time. Time travel on one show that effects the storylines of two others is not only a hot mess to keep track of, but it's a really quick way to start losing your audience, who might not want to have to watch all three to figure out what's going on in the one they DO watch.

That's why I wouldn't worry about Barry doing something over on The Flash that's going to affect Arrow, especially since Arrow's already over for the season. I'm sure whatever happened in this ep will stick.

I also think the new show is going to take a Quantum Leap approach with the team fighting to keep things "right" rather than changing the present.