S05.E05: Kill The Boy

[Athena]

Episode Synopsis:
 

Dany makes a difficult decision in Meereen. Jon recruits the help of an unexpected ally. Brienne searches for Sansa. Theon remains under Ramsay’s control.

 

Reminder: This is for discussion of the TV show only, no book talk allowed - including saying "but it's different in the books". Any spoiler from outside the books (i.e. next weeks preview) should be in spoiler tags.

[BizBuzz]

The look on Tyrion's face when he saw the dragon, priceless.  More later ...

[AimingforYoko]

Sansa's little smirk at Ramsey's dismay about the impending new Bolton was Sophie Turner's finest hour.

 

Other highlights:

Tyrion's face when he sees Drogon.

"Do you think she's pretty? Of course I do, I'm not blind."

The Stone Men being spooky as fuck.

Daenerys' proposal.

Edited May 11, 2015 by AimingforYoko

[MrsRafaelBarba]

What in the Walking Dead hell?

Stone Zombies got Jorah, that attack scene was creepy.

Glad Grey Worm survived and he loves Misssandei.

You better keep the side eye on Ollie, Lord Commander Snow.

[SimoneS]

Oh, Jorah, don't die. I knew Tyrion would be okay, but Jorah getting greyscale was unexpected. So Drogon is flying around Valyria.

 

Daenarys burning the guy was pretty entertaining. I hope she plans to spend time as well as feed her dragons in person from now now. She was right to open the fighting pits to free men only, but I don't think the marriage is a good idea. How will she rule Westeros at King's Landing when she has a husband in Meereen?

 

I want to believe that Stannis wants to protect Shireen, but Melisandre is so damn evil.

 

I hope that Jon sends Sam away to train as a meister and does not leave him alone with Gilly at the wall.

 

Of course, Roose's young wife is pregnant that is the point of marrying and forming an alliance. I cannot believe that Ramsay did not see that one coming. With more children on the way, he is dispensable.

 

Ramsay was such an ass at dinner, but it good that Sansa saw what he did to Theon so when the next opportunity comes for her to escape with Brienne's help, she will know to take it.

Edited May 11, 2015 by SimoneS

[TiredMe]

This show traumatizes me. My fav character now has greyscale. Wtf!

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Roose's wife, I'm scared for her.

[SoWindsor]

Wow this was a great epsiode. I was on the edge of my seat.

The entire time we were in Winterfell was unbelievably tense. I don't think I was breathing.

The Bolton's are such villains. Holy moly. That Miranda and Ramsey are terrifying. And Theon is so pitiful it's sickening.

I'm so scared for Sansa. I want her to be okay! Glad that Brienne is still watching out for her.

I don't want Jon going back up North of the Wall. But that scene with him and the ginger was great. I love Jon.

Dany was all kinds of awesome. The dragon scenes were wow. Not sure how I feel about her marrying that guy but it seems like a good political move.

The Jorah and Tyrion scene was unexpected. I don't want Jorah to get greyscale.

Overall very impressed.

[spaceytraci1208]

When Ramsey's sidechick sent Sansa into the kennel, I flashed back to the scene in "Goodfellas" when Jimmy sent Karen into the alley to look at dresses

[Potanical Pardon]

The pacing during the Winterfall stuff really dragged.

 

Damn! I hate whenever we go north of The Wall. I wanted Jon to go with Stannis immediately, not get sidetracked on another mission. I suppose now he can appear like Stannis/Tywin for a last second save with his eventual army of Wildlings/Night Watch loyalists.

 

And damn, again! Tyrion and Jorah are going to take forever getting to Mereen. So other than human deformity, is there really anything bad about greyscale? I can't remember. And does it work by Walking Dead rules? Maybe they can chop off Jorah's hand before it spreads.

 

Dany should have brought back the gladiator matches or whatever and have the former slave masters fight. I still don't get exactly why she needs to marry Hizdahr zo Loraq.

 

Sansa! I thought she was going to play this game better. Instead, she has the worst poker face and is immediately revealing herself to be a difficult bride way too soon.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Tandaemonium

[MrsRafaelBarba]

When Psycho Hobbit told Reek/Theon to kneel, thought a BJ was coming.

Glad I was wrong.

[AimingforYoko]

I still don't get exactly why she needs to marry Hizdahr zo Loraq.

 

 

It tells the powers that be that she's invested in the city's future. Their future, specifically.

[Stardancer Supreme]

Oh Walda. You in danger girl.

 

So that's where Drogon has been hanging out.  So Dany's ancestral homeland is by Mereen and nobody told her about it?

 

Miranda. I was scandalized by her hip bones jutting out. What, the Boltons can't feed their people?  Yes, she is hella jealous of Sansa. I though she was going to lock her in the kennels or sic those dogs on Sansa.  I wonder what ever happened to Arya's direwolf? (stray thought)

[SimoneS]

I still don't get exactly why she needs to marry Hizdahr zo Loraq.

 

By marrying him, the wealthy families will have an alliance with Daenerys that they would be reluctant to break. It would be against their interests to attack her and her men when their fates are so closely tied to her. It is a good idea that would work, if Daenarys was planning to stay in Meereen. However, she intends to move on conquer Westeros. Like Meister Ammon says, she is a Targaryen alone in the world. Now if she had more family to help her rule....

Edited May 11, 2015 by SimoneS

[paigow]

Tyrion: So what you're saying is that PIRATES are afraid of these waters?

Jorah: Yes. Best shortcut ever!

[MrsRafaelBarba]

@ Stardancer...

As I Recall, Arya's direwolf was killed in S1.

Because of Joffrey's punk ass and Cersei being a bitch.

[CalamityBoPeep]

I just want to say.... I've not been on the Stannis train much, but tonight he won my grammar-loving heart.  "Fewer."  LOL  Loved the look afterward when Davos said "What?"  The quick head-shake, the never-mind hand wave.  Such a Grammar Geek!

 

Now, I shall return to lurkdom to enjoy your insights. Carry on!

[dramachick]

I was on edge for that entire episode.

 

So glad that maid gave Sansa directions for a bat signal!

 

Thank goodness for the Grey Worm-Messandi love scene to erase Ramsey and Miranda from my memory bank.

 

Stone men?  WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[silverwings]

So I wonder how Daario is going to feel about his lover getting married?  Guess Kings are allowed their side-pieces so why not Queens? 

 

Everything at Winterfell is tense. I forgot how much Ramsey looks like a creepy Frodo.  He's not really keeping up with the respectful lord act much, is he? And yeah, I was thinking along the same lines as MrsRafaelBarba when he told Reek to kneel.  Also was expecting a direwolf to be in the Kennels, heh.

 

Was not expecting Jon to go back North of the wall.  Hope this trip is quicker than before.

 

Stonemen are super creepy.  I wonder how fast the disease takes over if within hours Jorah is already seeing scales...

[AimingforYoko]

As I Recall, Arya's direwolf was killed in S1.

No, Sansa's direwolf, Lady, was killed. Arya set Nymeria free to avoid that fate.

[ToniG]

@ Stardancer...

As I Recall, Arya's direwolf was killed in S1.

Because of Joffrey's punk ass and Cersei being a bitch.

Nymeria is Arya's direwolf, and she is alive as far as we know. Lady was Sansa's wolf, and she was killed in season 1.

[peggy06]

Nooooooo! Not Jorah!  Man can't catch a break!  

 

I feel dirty every time there's any time spent on Ramsay. He's definitely not hiding his creepy side from Sansa, that's for sure. Walda (is that Roose's wife's name?) ought to get outta there now. Ramsay doesn't like the thought of a legitimate son putting his nose out of joint. 

 

If Roose didn't recognize Ramsay as his son from looks, he surely would have from the sociopathic tendencies. "They married without my permission, so I hanged him and raped her." This clan gives Cersei a run for her money as worst of Westeros. Better get that candle ready, Sansa.

 

Of all the things I thought Dany might do, marrying what's-his-name is certainly not one of them. Also, maybe I didn't quite follow some earlier plot points, but is opening the fighting pits really going to appease the Sons of the Harpy? They seem much more hard-core.

 

No King's Landing this episode. Suits me. It's gotten to be as boring as the Wall used to be.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

No, Sansa's direwolf, Lady, was killed. Arya set Nymeria free to avoid that fate.

Okay my mistake, thanks.

[beeble]

@ Stardancer...

As I Recall, Arya's direwolf was killed in S1.

Because of Joffrey's punk ass and Cersei being a bitch.

It was Lady, Sansa's dire wolf  who was killed.  Arya's was "set free" out of fear she'd also be killed.

[SoWindsor]

When Ramsey's sidechick sent Sansa into the kennel, I flashed back to the scene in "Goodfellas" when Jimmy sent Karen into the alley to look at dresses

What did she want to happen with Sansa finding out about Theon? I also don't believe Sansa is that dumb that she'd walk in there. I get why they wanted her to find Theon but it just didn't make sense.

[SourK]

Tyrion: So what you're saying is that PIRATES are afraid of these waters?

Jorah: Yes. Best shortcut ever!

 

What I love about this plot line is that, so far, in trying to kidnap Tyrion and bring him to Danaerys, all he's done is make it less likely that they'll get there and given himself a disease. That's the Jorah way.

[dramachick]

I really hate spending time with the Bolton family. Poor Sansa.

 

Please win, Stannis! And Brienne, please don't kill Stannis before he wins!

[beeble]

Oh Walda. You in danger girl.

 

So that's where Drogon has been hanging out.  So Dany's ancestral homeland is by Mereen and nobody told her about it?

 

Miranda. I was scandalized by her hip bones jutting out. What, the Boltons can't feed their people?  Yes, she is hella jealous of Sansa. I though she was going to lock her in the kennels or sic those dogs on Sansa.  I wonder what ever happened to Arya's direwolf? (stray thought)

Those bones. Her skeletal look was pretty terrifying.

 

I wonder specifically what Drogon is getting at Valyria.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Ramsey's side chick needs to eat a few burgers.

Jutting hip bones, not sexy!

[CocoaGoddess]

Grammar troll Stannis is the best ever. I'm officially on Team Baratheon. 

[Potanical Pardon]

By marrying him, the wealthy families will have an alliance with Daenerys that they would be reluctant to break. It would be against their interests to attack her and her men when their fates are so closely tied to her. It is a good idea that would work, if Daenarys was planning to stay in Meereen. However, she intends to move on conquer Westeros. Like Meister Ammon says, she is a Targaryen alone in the world. Now if she had more family to help her rule....

 

Wouldn't they already be reluctant to betray Daenerys after some of them got fried by dragons? I get why Dany needs most of them around, but I would think she probably already has their loyalty a bit more than before dragon-frying fun. Plus, as you said, it shouldn't really be a secret to anyone that Dany's stay is temporary. She said as much this episode too; no return of slavery "as long as I'm here." Now that there's a marriage coming, shouldn't HLZ be concerned about not just the wealthy people alliance, but his own position of power/life since this all means he's temporary to Dany. And all of this should be obvious to everyone in Meereen, so I guess I'm still puzzled by this strategy.

[peggy06]

Damn! I hate whenever we go north of The Wall. I wanted Jon to go with Stannis immediately, not get sidetracked on another mission. I suppose now he can appear like Stannis/Tywin for a last second save with his eventual army of Wildlings/Night Watch loyalists.

Judging by what Gilly said about her sisters who had it, and by the Stone Men, the consequences are pretty dire. IIRC, Gilly said her sisters started acting like animals. I was wondering the same thing, if you cut off the affected body part, would it stave off any spread of the disease? 

[WicketyWack]

Between Stannis' Darling Daddy scene last week and his grammar nerd curse, I am starting to develop a new TV crush. Now if only he weren't a crazy-ass religious freak.

 

Wonder if Jorah is going to plead for Stannis to reveal the cure for greyscale. Maybe in exchange for Dany's alliance? Nobody in Westeros knows they're on the outs.

When Psycho Hobbit told Reek/Theon to kneel, thought a BJ was coming.

Glad I was wrong.

Me too, on both counts.

[Winnief]

Grammar troll Stannis is the best ever. I'm officially on Team Baratheon.

 

He does grow on you doesn't he?!?  And whatever else he *was* the only guy in Westeros to respond to the NW's pleas for help, hence Jon's heartfelt "Thank you."

 

Judging by what Gilly said about her sisters who had it, and by the Stone Men, the consequences are pretty dire. IIRC, Gilly said her sisters started acting like animals. I was wondering the same thing, if you cut off the affected body part, would it stave off any spread of the disease?

 

Not sure.  We know its possible to arrest the spread of Greyscale because of Shireen who while scarred is alive and otherwise healthy, but Jorah may not have easy access to the Maester's and remedies she did-and for that matter the spread and rate of infection may vary person to person.  Could be Shireen was just naturally more resistant to the disease than some and able to fight it off better, or she contracted a weaker strain or something.  In any event this can't be good for Jorah.

 

When Psycho Hobbit told Reek/Theon to kneel, thought a BJ was coming.

Glad I was wrong.

Me too, on both counts.

 

Me three.  Dear gods, I'm worried for Sansa though. 

Edited May 11, 2015 by Winnief

[izabella]

Sansa's little smirk at Ramsey's dismay about the impending new Bolton was Sophie Turner's finest hour.

 

She really did that perfectly!

 

I liked that scene with Stannis and Sam.  Stannis at least seems to get it that Whitewalkers are going to be a problem.  Though I wonder about this plan with the ships.  Do the Wildlings or Jon and the Night's Watch know anything about sailing ships?

[WicketyWack]

I always wondered why Sam didn't become a meister. Seems like the logical career path for him, AND it would have removed him from the Tarly line of succession, making everyone happy. So why the Wall? I hope we find out.

[bunnyblue]

OMG, Jorah, Nooooooo!! I knew when Tyrion & Jorah were sitting on the beach asking each other if they were all right one of them was lying. Just couldn't figure out who. I guess I'm relieved it's not Tryion but, damn, poor Jorah. That Stonemen attack was freaking scary; almost as scary as White Walkers. 

 

Loved this episode. No King's Landing political non-sense to bog it down made for a tense fast-paced show.

 

Roose is just as sadistic as Ramsay, except he hides it better. I wonder if Roose abuses Walda behind closed doors. She seems dense but sweet. I don't think that baby or Walda are going to make it to delivery. 

 

I want to feel sorry for Theon but then I'm reminded of what he did to those 2 orphan boys, how he betrayed Robb, and how much his presence hurts Sansa, and I can't really muster much sympathy. But I am sensing some sort of redemption in his future.

 

I'm bummed that we won't have any more Stannis & Jon scenes. I am actually rooting for Stannis to win the Iron Throne and make Jon his Hand of the King. Robert and Ned 2.0, but competent. Of course, there is probably 0% chance of that happening. It's amazing how the writers have done a 180 with Stannis since season 2. Back then I couldn't stand him but now I love him. That's why I fear he's doomed. Shireen & Davos too. I loved when Stannis muttered "fewer" when the NW brother used "less". 

 

I don't know about Jon's plan. It's a good one but he's trying to change centuries ways of thinking in a few days. I can't wait for him and Tormund to team up and head to Hardhome. Olly has overstayed his welcome. Brat can die any day now. I cheered when Stannis and Sam (finally) talked about the real threat - the White Walkers - and how to kill them. I loved that Stannis didn't dismiss what Sam had to say.

 

Dragons!! I felt verklempt as Drogon flew over Valyria. He's so far from his mother and brothers. Does he miss them? What does he do all day? What a somber image knowing that centuries ago dragons thrived over that once bustling city. Rhaegal! Viserion! Yay!, they got to flambe their dinner. I wasn't sure if Dany got lucky down in their dungeon prison or if she was actually able to control them enough to do what she wanted in order to intimate the masters. More dragons, please. And direwolves, too.

Edited May 11, 2015 by bunnyblue

[RedheadZombie]

Wouldn't they already be reluctant to betray Daenerys after some of them got fried by dragons? I get why Dany needs most of them around, but I would think she probably already has their loyalty a bit more than before dragon-frying fun. Plus, as you said, it shouldn't really be a secret to anyone that Dany's stay is temporary. She said as much this episode too; no return of slavery "as long as I'm here." Now that there's a marriage coming, shouldn't HLZ be concerned about not just the wealthy people alliance, but his own position of power/life since this all means he's temporary to Dany. And all of this should be obvious to everyone in Meereen, so I guess I'm still puzzled by this strategy.

 

She said slavery would not return, "not while I live".

[WicketyWack]

I want to feel sorry for Theon but then I'm reminded of what he did to those 2 orphan boys, how he betrayed Robb, and how much his presence hurts Sansa, and I can't really muster much sympathy. But I am sensing some sort of redemption in his future.

 

I predict he's going to find a way to tell her Bran and Rickon are still alive and out there somewhere. And then jump off the broken tower himself, because Ramsey would never let him get off the X. 

[Potanical Pardon]

She said slavery would not return, "not while I live".

Thank you. Classic case of I heard what I wanted, I suppose.

[thuganomics85]

Congrats, Hizadahr!  You are getting married!  To a queen!  Who is hot!  And... well, might feed you to her dragons if you don't please her, perhaps.  Not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing.  Curious to see if Daenerys' more hardcore approach to things is going to work.  And if opening the fighting pits will end up being a good thing or a bad thing.  I did find it interesting that she is now listening to Missandri now.  Last week's clusterfuck has mixed results, I see.  Grey Worm is alive at least, but that's a wrap for Barristan.  Not sure how long Dany can hold the fort down with just Daario, Missandri, and a weaken Grey Worm.

 

But, now it looks like her help is in trouble.  Jorah takes a shortcut and they get jumped by a bunch of Stonemen (only in Westeros, baby!), where Tyrion almost drowns, but Jorah seems to be infected with greyscale.  Unless he can find those magical doctors that helped Shireen, he is in a whole lot trouble.  Worst boat trip ever!

 

Boltons somehow keep making the Lannisters almost look like functional family.  You've got Ramsay fucking around, parading Reek/Theon in order to impress Sansa, and asking his dad about his sex life.  In turn, you've got Roose announcing Wanda's pregnant; knowing damn well that is going to freak Ramsay out, and did reminiscing about how he raped Ramsay's mother.  Really shouldn't have been surprised about that, sadly.  Boltons are fucked up.  I fear for Sansa and, hell, Wanda.  Do something, Brienne!

 

Jon strikes a deal with Tormunnd, that pisses a good portion of the Night's Watch off.  I guess working with the Wildings is a better option then possibly creating more White Walkers, but I guess there was bound to be some anger over that decision.  We'll see how that plays out, but I continue to surprisingly enjoy Jon this season.

 

That said, I really think I'm on Team Stannis at this point.  The man may be an odd duck and he certainly has his bad side (Shadow Babies!), but on this show, he's close to being reasonable.  At least he has a code of some kind: a screwed up one on a lot of levels, but I guess it is better then nothing.

 

Not sure if I find Sam and Gilly just cheesy or cheesy in a good/sweet way.

 

Judging from the previews, next week looks like it could be a pretty big episode.  Can't wait!

Edited May 11, 2015 by thuganomics85

[WicketyWack]

What's "Kill the Boy" a reference to? 

I'm thinking it's a veiled reference to Ramsey's plan for his new sibling, or what Theon supposedly did to the young Starks, but can someone remind me what the title really refers to?

[Winnief]

I predict he's going to find a way to tell her Bran and Rickon are still alive and out there somewhere.

 

That's what I'm hoping.  She really needs to know that her brothers are still alive and that the Stark line hasn't been extinguished yet after all.

 

What's "Kill the Boy" a reference to?

I'm thinking it's a veiled reference to Ramsey's plan for his new sibling, or what Theon supposedly did to the young Starks, but can someone remind me what the title really refers to?

 

 

What Maester Aemon said to Jon-"Kill the boy-and let the man be born," as he counseled Jon to do the right thing even if he knew it would be unpopular.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Winnief

[peggy06]

What's "Kill the Boy" a reference to? 

I'm thinking it's a veiled reference to Ramsey's plan for his new sibling, or what Theon supposedly did to the young Starks, but can someone remind me what the title really refers to?

Jon wanted to ask Aemonn's advice re: releasing Tormund and opening the gates to the Wildlings. Aemonn advised Jon to kill the boy (inside him) and let the man emerge. IOW, to follow his gut instinct about doing something even though it wasn't going to be popular.

 

I forgot to mention Valyria. Fantastic imagery, truly evocative and creepy/beautiful.

Edited May 11, 2015 by peggy06

[Cyranetta]

 

What's "Kill the Boy" a reference to?

It means that Jon Snow has to "kill" his inner boy in order to grow up enough to act as an effective Lord Commander.

[Rocket]

Skinny people were the norm for most of history so a rare one on the show does not bother me much especially as she comes from a working class family. Reminds me of a around 1900 picture of a family reunion 40 plus people not one over weight. Only could tell by the faces for all the clothes but many seamed thin in the face not unusual for photo's that old. Hard work for both sexes every day helped by the Cholera diet, Malaria diet (DDT pesticide on the mosquitoes whiped it out along with lots of birds in the US), Dysentery diet and so on. Oh and 5% of the population are naturally underweight and have to deal with everyone picking on them.

 

Very tense episode for Sansa on pins and needles the whole time. I though Psycho Hobbit asking for a hand was going to cut a finger off. I almost expected Psycho Hobbit to offer to let his girlfriend help him deflower and torment Sansa. 

 

Loved the dragon overflight just wish we had a few moments to reflect and have Tyron's reaction before grey scale invasion. 

[dizzyd]

So on Mother's Day, Dany finally remembers to feed her babies.  Its a shame that she wasted a season and a half not using that power to be the feared Mother of Dragons.  Maybe finally her story will stop being so stagnant. 

 

So didn't infected Jorah touch Tyrion?  Isn't that going to pass the infection to him?

 

I don't see how the candle in the tower window is helpful.  If Ramsey is molesting his new bride or Myranda is inflicting her jealous tendencies on Sansa, that tower window is nowhere near unless we're doing a call back to season 1 by having the sex scene at the top of the tower or Sansa is going to be jettisoned from it like Bran.  Ok, now I need to wash my brain out.  But seriously, she could be in trouble in so many places in Winterfell that are far away from that tower window and far away from Brienne.

 

And speaking of her brothers that Theon supposedly killed, are we ever going to see Bran and Rickon again?  And why is it taking so long for the Walkers to reach the Wall? 

[ffmegaman]

It means that Jon Snow has to "kill" his inner boy in order to grow up enough to act as an effective Lord Commander.

I 100% agree with that!

[Sidney]

 

 

 

I'm bummed that we won't have any more Stannis & Jon scenes.

 

Me too!

[Hava]

Nooooooooooooo! Not Jorah! This is very upsetting. One of my favorite characters. And homeboy was looking fine tonight, too. Boo.

 

I don't know why, but I was surprised to hear that Roose Bolton raped Ramsey's mother. If I didn't already hate him before, I surely despise him now. I need to watch the Bolton demise soon.

 

I honestly didn't believe Sansa would be so stupid and niave to walk into a dark place at the urging of someone she does not know. She's been in the game long enough to not trust just anyone.