S05.E05: Kill The Boy

[Athena]

Episode Synopsis:
 

Dany makes a difficult decision in Meereen. Jon recruits the help of an unexpected ally. Brienne searches for Sansa. Theon remains under Ramsay’s control.

 

Reminder: There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into a potential spoiler you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read all the books to date. Any information from unpublished books, such as preview chapters should be in spoiler tags.

[Mya Stone]

1. Show Dany? WAY better than Book Dany. I appreciate her story truncated and accelerated. It's much more interesting to me this way. 

 

2. Every single scene with Sansa and the Boltons (new band name?) had me on the edge of my seat. Was it just me, or did she half-hide a smirk at Ramsey's dinner plight? 
 

3. Stannis and Sam! TeamStanSam! 

 

4. Olly is totally stabbing Jon. Way to NOT shock me, show. Frustrating that Jon is 100% in the right, here. 

 

5. The Stone Men scene. Way to shock me, show! I mean, I knew it was coming, yet it is was STILL tense as hell. 

 

6. Kudos to all who called Jorah as the new JonConn. I didn't want it to be so, but I'll take it over tattooed face, Slave Jorah. That little look at the end? Iain Glen, I love you. 

 

7. Thank you for showing us Valyria, show. Of course that's where Drogon flies to! 

[WatchrTina]

Maester Aemon:  "It's a terrible thing for there to be a Targaryan all alone in the world."

 

Next shot -- John Snow.

 

Anvil drop!

[elzin]

While this would be among the worst episode of S1-4, it was the best one this season for me. I didn't love it, but this is the first time at 10pm on a Sunday night I don't want to punch something in a month.  Really, almost the entire episode was original, but a lot of the changes at least made sense for the first time.

 

I enjoy not being enraged and puzzled.

[Winnief]

Show Dany? WAY better than Book Dany. I appreciate her story truncated and accelerated. It's much more interesting to me this way.

 

ITA.  Also frankly Show Dany seems a little smarter.  She's still not my choice to rule Westeros but at least she doesn't seem to be in denial and too busy knocking boots with Daario to notice everything collapsing around her like in the books. 

 

 

Every single scene with Sansa and the Boltons (new band name?) had me on the edge of my seat. Was it just me, or did she half-hide a smirk at Ramsey's dinner plight?

It wasn't just you.  Girl may have no love for Theon, but she's all too familiar with sadistic psychopaths by this point.  Fortunately she now appears to have a possible escape route from Ramsay if she needs it.

 

The stone men freaked me out more on screen than they ever did in the books-and Jorah/Tyrion are a massive improvement together as well.  Though, alas, it looks like poor Jorah won't be around much longer.  Sob.

 

Really loving Jon this season, and he's making the right decision...but it's gonna get him killed.  (If only temporarily.)  What makes it so great and so tragic is that I can actually see where the people likely to do the deed, like Olly among others are coming from. 

 

And interesting that for an episode that was basically all the North, (with a bit of Essos,) I was still interested the entire time!  Looks like they're transitioning us well from KL.

 

Yep, they're setting it up for Sam and Gilly to head out to Oldtown soon.  I'm really, REALLY hoping Shireen gets to go with them.

 

Maester Aemon:  "It's a terrible thing for there to be a Targaryan all alone in the world."

 

Next shot -- John Snow.

 

Anvil drop!

 

For real.  One thing I've always regretted from the books is that poor Aemon never got to learn the truth about Jon before his death when it would have meant so much to both of them...though, sometimes I wonder if his paternal interest there, wasn't because on some subconscious level he sensed the truth. 

Edited May 11, 2015 by Winnief

[magdalene]

Jorah. Damn. They managed to startle me with the Stonemen because they distracted me with the shiny of Drogon. Sneaky.

 

Words cannot describe how much I loathe any scene with Ramsay in it. Die, die, die, Ramsay.

Edited May 11, 2015 by magdalene

[ToniG]

Stannis? You had me at "Fewer".

[Brn2bwild]

Don't die, Jorah!  We don't care if JonCon dies, but we care about you!

 

Something about that whole final sequence, right down to the music, reminded me of the Planet of the Apes movies.

[that one guy]

I was so happy that the Stone Men were in it! This was the scene I wanted to see from ADWD and when I heard the Shy Maid crew was cut I was afraid there would be no rock zombies. Of course, they've made it a point to mention them every week so I figured they's show up, but still it was gratifying. Of course, the way I imagined it was bigger, because bigger boat, and very Harryhausen, but still...

 

The ruins of Valyria! They really do have a bigger budget this year.

 

 

Stannis? You had me at "Fewer".

 

No doubt. I was never team Stannis before this season, but winning a battle rather than losing seems to have done the man wonders. He almost has a sense of humor now!

 

Arya has been on only 2 of these first 5 episodes. Next week, she better kill somebody or I'm gonna be grumpy.

[fantique]

5. The Stone Men scene. Way to shock me, show! I mean, I knew it was coming, yet it is was STILL tense as hell. 

Oh my gawd!!!!! That scared the shite out of me! I literally jumped and said "ooooohhhh, hell naw!!! This is so fucking creepy." I couldn't actually watch the sequence. I covered my eyes to not see the stone men properly.

 

Stannis? You had me at "Fewer".

D&D said it, the sign of nobility in Westeros is correcting people's grammar.

 

Finally! Now those changes are making sense! Internal consistency...Yay!

Edited May 11, 2015 by fantique

[placate]

Err...did people return to Valyria sometime in this show?  That fishing village that Jorah is going to get a boat from seems to suggest it.  Maybe we'll get to see Gerion Lanister. 

[benteen]

That was the first King's Landing free episode, wasn't it?  It certainly wasn't missed tonight and that's not a knock on KL.

 

What an interesting group of characters the recap focused on.  Shireen, Olly, Maester Aemon, Myranda, Gilly, etc.

 

Really good episode.  Not as good as recent weeks but still a strong one.  Once again the reduced focused helped a lot, giving more time than usual to the various scenes.

I agree that Show Dany is a lot smarter than TV Dany.  She probably should have roasted the rest of them alive....that was probably her only mistake here.

 

So glad we saw Aemon learning about Dany.  Though I missed the Aegon backstory, I'm glad we still had the conversation on command and it's good to see Jon and Aemon together.

 

Great scene between Stannis and Sam.  This is the second week in a row we got a mention of the Citadel and based on the subject matter, it looks like we will be getting Sam and Gilly going down there.

 

Jon has definitely got the best material this season and Kit Harrington is making the most of it.  Jon's moves are right here but it's going to blow up on him just like it did in the book.  I'm curious as to what will happen now with Melisandre is leaving Castle Black.  Shireen doesn't look like she'll get burned alive but I'm very nervous with her on the road to Winterfell.

 

Dinner with the Boltons...and you thought dining with Joffrey was bad.  Loved the look Roose gave Ramsay at one point during the dinner, like he was surprised his son came up with a good idea.  Glad we got the backstory on Ramsay's birth, proving once again that Roose at heart is just as bad as Ramsay.  He just hides it better.  I get nervous whenever Ramsay is onscreen but IM is just killing the role, as is the actor playing Roose (I can never remember their names).

 

Sophie Turner did fine work again, especially her reaction to see Theon.  Alfie Allen is doing his usual stellar work too and the Ramsay/Theon scenes are just as nerve-wracking on the show as they are in the books.

 

While the Northern lords have been poorly represented, I'm glad to see at least the Northern smallfolk have picked up the banner of "The North Remembers."  It's long overdue that we get more of the Northern POV.

 

Show Jorah and Show Tyrion are already jelling better than their book counterparts and the Stone Man scene (and the look at Valryia) was exciting.  Poor Jorah...I knew it was coming but unless they suddenly find a cure for greyscale, it looks like he's as good as dead.

[Consternation]

My favorite character is now the woman who brings Sansa bathwater and cryptic messages of support.  I guess she is supposed to replace the washerwomen who aren't washerwomen.  Whatever, she can stay.

 

Did I miss it or where was Melle Mel when Stannis was setting off for Winterfell?  He promised to bring her on the last episode.

 

I approve of the change where Dany feeds people to Rhaegal and Viserion.  That is the first enjoyment those poor dragons have had in two weeks or two years or however long it's supposed to have been.

 

Yeah, Aemon.  "There is only going to be one Targ left"  Jon: busts into the room like Lenny and Squiggy.

 

I miss you, Arya and Cersei.  (And of course Bran but I knew that was going to happen.)

[benteen]

Mel was on horseback with Stannis when he left.

[Avaleigh]

I missed King's Landing but overall I definitely enjoyed the episode. I was even a little startled by the scene with the Stone Men. I agree that it was exciting even though I already knew what was going to happen. 

 

I was relieved that Ramsay didn't cut off one of Theon's fingers. I was sure it was going to happen and had my finger on the mute button just in case but thankfully no. 

 

I'm alarmed at how fast the greyscale seems like it's going. 

 

Why didn't Tyrion mention that he'd spoken with Jorah's father? 

 

Jon isn't putting enough emphasis on the White Walkers. They're talking too much about the wildlings and less about the fact that they could barely defend themselves against the wildling attack and now they're just going to go for round two only this time they'll be wightified wildlings who are being led by the White Walkers. I felt like he wasn't putting it to them in a way that emphasized how serious the White Walker situation. Rather than stating that the guy was there at the Fist why not ask him to describe it and ask them how they plan on defending themselves against an undead army? 

[benteen]

Tyrion doesn't mention having meet Jorah's father (or to his knowledge that he was likely dead) in the book either.  That always annoyed me but telling your captor that his estranged father is dead is not going to put him in a good mood.  But I thought Tyrion would mention it too.

 

I agree that Jon needed to play up the White Walker angle more both tonight and in the books.

Edited May 11, 2015 by benteen

[Avaleigh]

Oh, and the look on Hizdahr's face when he was facing Viserion and Rhaegal? I totally thought of Salladhor Saan's "bring me my brown pants!" story. 

 

I guess it would have taken away from Dany's badass moment but I feel like at least one of those guys would have been likely to lose control of a bodily function in that moment particularly after seeing the one guy getting roasted and eaten. 

Edited May 11, 2015 by Avaleigh

[Brn2bwild]

I don't quite get why Ramsay would fear an in-wedlock Bolton son.  I mean I do get it, but by the time Roose Jr came of age, Ramsay would have presumably been married to the daughter of the former Warden of the North for several years and had children of his own (in his ideal world... though ick).  It's hard to think of how Roose Jr could beat his claim.

[Winnief]

I don't quite get why Ramsay would fear an in-wedlock Bolton son.  I mean I do get it, but by the time Roose Jr came of age, Ramsay would have presumably been married to the daughter of the former Warden of the North for several years and had children of his own (in his ideal world... though ick).  It's hard to think of how Roose Jr could beat his claim.

 

 

Because it's entirely possible that Roose Sr. might disinherit Ramsay in favor of Roose Jr. 

[SeanC]

My favorite character is now the woman who brings Sansa bathwater and cryptic messages of support. 

Needlessly cryptic messages, really.  There was literally no reason not to give more information there.

[tennisgurl]

 

Jon: busts into the room like Lenny and Squiggy.

*collapses into giggles* 

 

Now I want to watch Stannis and Davros skipping around singing "schemeal, schamazzle..." 

[Brn2bwild]

Because it's entirely possible that Roose Sr. might disinherit Ramsay in favor of Roose Jr. 

 

True, but Ramsay has a lot of power if his children are descended from the Starks of Winterfell.  If Roose tried this maneuver, I could see it backfiring pretty badly.

[anyanka323]

The Ramsay/Roose discussion about Ramsay's uncertain place in the Bolton family hierarchy was interesting in contrast to the the Stannis/Shireen scene last week.  That scene was warm and you get the sense that despite Shireen's disability, Stannis loves her unconditionally.  If the Boltons manage to survive Stannis and his army coming from the wall, Ramsay may retain his position only due to his marriage with Sansa.  Roose seems to have had enough of his behavior and Ramsay's dismay at having a younger, truly legitimate half sibling was telling.  Roose doesn't seem like someone who tolerates insubordination and improper behavior from his lessers, including his recently legitimatized bastard son and his friend Myranda.

 

I'm loving the Stannis storyline.  Stannis came across as a very cold fish iniatially, but has shown that of all the contenders for the Iron Throne, he may have the best decision making skills.  He seems intent to trying to unite the whole realm rather than trying to pacify the south only.  Shireen seems like a smart and decent young woman who takes more after her father than mother. 

[benteen]

As I recall, a legitimized bastard is behind all of his Lord Father or Lady Mother's natural children.  I don't know if this applies in Ramsay's case, as he was legitimized before Roose got his lady wife pregnant.

 

Dany's marriage proposal was a little odd and came out of nowhere.  Hizdhar seemed to impress her by acting brave in front of the dragons.  Though perhaps seeing him kneeling in fear before her later has given her the belief that she, to quote George Costanza, has all the "hand" in this relationship.  She's likely underestimated Hizdhar as she did in the book.

 

In fairness to Hizdhar...I can see why he would REALLY want Dany dead on a personal level.

 

They're setting up Stannis vs Roose and Ramsay very well.  The Northern clan storyline looks to be gone...I do hope we get Stannis's attack on Deepwood Motte.  We'd be bringing another familiar character in Asha...er, YARA, into the mix.

Edited May 11, 2015 by benteen

[screamin]

I worry that the elderly Stark guerrilla lady is some ploy by Ramsey to try and catch Sansa at something treacherous. Of course she doesn't look young enough to be his type nor beaten and tortured enough to be his broken stooge like Theon, but it's still nagging at the back of my mind.

[Winnief]

The Ramsay/Roose discussion about Ramsay's uncertain place in the Bolton family hierarchy was interesting in contrast to the the Stannis/Shireen scene last week.  That scene was warm and you get the sense that despite Shireen's disability, Stannis loves her unconditionally.

 

True.  I would also suggest that the Stannis/Shireen dynamic is an interesting foil to Tywin/Tyrion.  I mean in both cases we have a patriarch who is the antithesis of warm and fuzzy, they are both very proud men, and in both cases they get a child with a severe disability/ailment that incites prejudice in a medieval society, and for that matter the father/child in each case have alliterative names and certain personality traits in common, (Shireen inherited the Baratheon tenacity/stubbornness, and Tyrion has Daddy's head for dealmaking,) but while Stannis clearly loves his girl and is loved in return, Tywin and Tyrion's relationship was so toxic it was kinda inevitable that it would bring about the deaths of at least one of them.  For Stannis at the end of the day, Shireen was His Daughter and that was that, while Tywin could never get past Tyrion being a dwarf.  The bad news for Shireen though, is that while Daddy loves her unconditionally, Mommy does not.

[fantique]

I worry that the elderly Stark guerrilla lady is some ploy by Ramsey to try and catch Sansa at something treacherous. Of course she doesn't look young enough to be his type nor beaten and tortured enough to be his broken stooge like Theon, but it's still nagging at the back of my mind.

Nah, this is Winterfell man. The Boltons are not at ease. Sansa said it perfectly, this is her home, the strangers are the others not her. They are like Dany in Meereen except they're bringing no freedom.

 

Amazing acting moments of the episode; Maester Aemon and Reek. Maester Aemon melted my heart, I always forget him but he's definitely my top 3 Targs. Alfie Allen brought it as well. You could see on his face that he was bursting at the seams and wanted to shout "I didn't kill them!!!!!" Amazing. I can't get over how good he is. 

Also loved Brienne and Pod. Fun scene and more Northern love. Also, did anyone think when the man came in the room "Please be Howland Reed"?

Edited May 11, 2015 by fantique

[Avaleigh]

Speaking of wonky timelines and traveling, when Jon mentioned the White Walkers it dawned on me that the whole attack at the Fist happened back in season 2. How is it that the White Walkers haven't attacked by now? They should totally be up the Night's Watch ass at this point. 

I worry that the elderly Stark guerrilla lady is some ploy by Ramsey to try and catch Sansa at something treacherous. Of course she doesn't look young enough to be his type nor beaten and tortured enough to be his broken stooge like Theon, but it's still nagging at the back of my mind.

I think the lady is the real deal. My two questions are: Who does she know specifically that will help Sansa? Wasn't it too soon for Brienne's message to be delivered? Also, Ramsay does like his jokes and he does like to trick people and Sansa hasn't seen that side of him. It seems too farfetched for me though. I can't see it appealing to Ramsay to have anyone remind Sansa of the fact that the North remembers. 

[mac123x]

The Wall storyline in the show is a definite improvement over the books, and I think it really shows the limitations of the books' first person narration.  Forming an alliance with the Wildlings against the greater evil that they all know is coming is logical.  Since Jon thinks that, all those that oppose him are filtered through his perceptions, and come across as short-sighted, bigoted idiots.  On the show, however, we get to see it more objectively, and can better understand how some people (Olly) really really hate the wildlings and are incapable of seeing the bigger picture. 

[InsertWordHere]

True, but Ramsay has a lot of power if his children are descended from the Starks of Winterfell.  If Roose tried this maneuver, I could see it backfiring pretty badly.

But Ramsay knows that Bran and Rickon are still alive. If either of them show up, Sansa's claim only lasts as long as the Boltons control the North, and that only works if they are backed by the Lannisters, which will be over when Cersei realizes Sansa is in the North. 

 

ETA: Thank you, show, for allowing Iain Glen and his melodious voice to hijack and finish Tyrion's story for us.

Edited May 11, 2015 by InsertWordHere

[mac123x]

I'm curious about the logistics of the report Sam was reading to Maester Aemon.  Like, how the hell did they get that information?  Why would anyone think to send them a raven with that?

 

After some discussion with another fan, the best we could come up with is that someone at the Citadel send it to Aemon just to keep him in the loop on what's going on with his great-great-grand-niece. 

[SeanC]

With this episode, Lena Headey and Aiden Gillen are out of the “who will appear in all ten episodes?” sweepstakes, which has had no winners since season 2 (when Peter Dinklage was).  Still in contention this year:  Dinklage again, Kit Harrington, Sophie Turner, Stephen Dillane, and John Bradley.  I think the first three may all make it (Dinklage definitely will).

 

Jorah, formerly Lord of the Friendzone, now Lord Stoneheart.  Poor guy.

 

Dany’s characterization is decidedly, er, erratic right now.  After making a big to-do about justice and due process, she has two random guys gruesomely burned to death, and talks about executing everybody – and now she’s marrying Hizdahr instead.  Frankly, if Hizdahr isn’t working with the Sons of the Harpy already, he has good reason to now (also, he had absolutely nothing to do with the marriage idea in the show; I’m really not sure what to make of him).

 

I’d previously been sure that Sam’s journey to Oldtown was cut, but we got a whole scene this week that really seems to do nothing but set up that voyage, so I guess it’s in?  There must be something really important there, then, considering how many other plots have been culled.

 

The whole Winterfell plot just frustrates me enormously, because the acting is great (Sophie Turner has never been better, and everybody else is customarily doing strong work; even Charlotte Hope gets to do some actual acting as opposed to just strutting around naked for our viewing pleasure, though she still does that too – this time alongside Ramsay, who, whatever else one might say about him, has a nice ass), but the plotting is just so, so illogical.  Sansa is supposedly here to either (a) wait around and be rescued or (b) make Ramsay “her own” – while I guess she’s doing the first just fine (and I find it kind of hilarious that the supposedly empowered Sansa is still doing exactly what she was doing before, just with a black dress), she isn’t even trying the second, doing nothing but acting hostile and sniping at the Boltons.

 

Alfie Allen got to do some actual acting, which is nice, considering that this was supposed to be his big storyline, but so far literally every other major actor in it has gotten much more screentime than him.

Edited May 11, 2015 by SeanC

[larapu2000]

Sansa was surrounded at that dinner by all the people or families that betrayed her own, and girlfriend owned them by reminding them she's a motherfucking Stark. And that they are not. Yesssss.

[benteen]

I'm curious about the logistics of the report Sam was reading to Maester Aemon.  Like, how the hell did they get that information?  Why would anyone think to send them a raven with that?

 

After some discussion with another fan, the best we could come up with is that someone at the Citadel send it to Aemon just to keep him in the loop on what's going on with his great-great-grand-niece. 

 

I'm curious who sent that raven with the Dany information to Aemon too.  A contact at the Citadel would make the most sense.  Maybe that Archmaester that Sam meets at the end of AFFC, Marwyn.    Since the Citadel plot seems to be on the table. would be a way to introduce him. 

 

Or Sam could be reading Stannis's mail...

 

Interesting change with Jon borrowing Stannis's fleet.  I get Stannis isn't planning anymore sea assaults.

 

I admit, I'm not quite sure what Sansa is playing at at the moment.  Not that I can't blame her for not liking the Boltons but she's either playing her own game or just sitting around sulking.

Edited May 11, 2015 by benteen

[SeanC]

I admit, I'm not quite sure what Sansa is playing at at the moment.  Not that I can't blame her for not liking the Boltons but she's either playing her own game or just sitting around sulking.

She's not really got any "game" to play other than try to win over Ramsay, which she doesn't appear to be trying to do -- the rest is just waiting around to be rescued by Stannis (or, in this episode, an alternative form of rescue delivered by the needlessly cryptic lady).  She doesn't actually have anything else to accomplish in Winterfell.

[Avaleigh]

I’d previously been sure that Sam’s journey to Oldtown was cut, but we got a whole scene this week that really seems to do nothing but set up that voyage, so I guess it’s in?  There must be something really important there, then, considering how many other plots have been culled.

I'm trying to think about what all is in Oldtown. The Citadel, Hightowers, glass candles, another Sand Snake who doesn't appear to have been written in, oily black stones...am I missing anything big?

 

I'm curious who sent that raven with the Dany information to Aemon too.  A contact at the Citadel would make the most sense.  Maybe that Archmaester that Sam meets at the end of AFFC, Marwyn.    Since the Citadel plot seems to be on the table. would be a way to introduce him. 

It has to be Varys if it's someone we know, right? 

[Unknown poster]

Can someone with a better memory than me tell me if the poem Tyrion and Jorah recited was from the books, or just made up for the show? It seemed vaguely familiar, but I can't recall if I'd heard/read it before.

[InsertWordHere]

I'm curious about the logistics of the report Sam was reading to Maester Aemon.  Like, how the hell did they get that information?  Why would anyone think to send them a raven with that?

 

After some discussion with another fan, the best we could come up with is that someone at the Citadel send it to Aemon just to keep him in the loop on what's going on with his great-great-grand-niece. 

Maybe his great great uncle Bloodraven's been sending him ravens.

 

Also, Aemon is Dany and Stannis' great great uncle and Shireen and (probably) Jon's great great great uncle. It's funny how many of the few (yes, Stannis, I wrote few) remaining members of House Targaryen are at the Wall right now. Plus Brynden Rivers is hanging out beyond the Wall too.  

[Paradigm14]

Sansa can't play Pollyanna here, even if she wanted to stay under their radar. So I think she's being as honest as she can while revealing as little as possible of her own plans. And she's not letting them see her sweat. I'm enjoying it.

[SeanC]

I'm trying to think about what all is in Oldtown. The Citadel, Hightowers, glass candles, another Sand Snake who doesn't appear to have been written in, oily black stones...am I missing anything big?

Not that we know of yet (though in the show one thing that notably isn't there yet is Jaqen).

 

Sarella wasn't written out, though -- we were told Oberyn had eight daughters, so if she's at Oldtown, there's no reason we'd have seen her yet.

[benteen]

I'm trying to think about what all is in Oldtown. The Citadel, Hightowers, glass candles, another Sand Snake who doesn't appear to have been written in, oily black stones...am I missing anything big?

 

It has to be Varys if it's someone we know, right? 

 

It wouldn't be Varys although that would be interesting.  I wonder where Varys is at the moment.

 

BTW, nice to see the Broken Tower again, where this whole business started.

[WatchrTina]

 

Sansa is supposedly here to either (a) wait around and be rescued or (b) make Ramsay “her own” – while I guess she’s doing the first just fine (and I find it kind of hilarious that the supposedly empowered Sansa is still doing exactly what she was doing before, just with a black dress), she isn’t even trying the second, doing nothing but acting hostile and sniping at the Boltons.

I wondered about Sansa's snark at the dinner table but actually, if she had been all sweet and gracious, Roose would have seen right through her.  By letting her "Stark" flag fly, she's showing them the girl they expect to see.  I'm still holding out great hope for what our Dark Phoenix, I mean Sansa is going to get up to.

[Knuckles]

I loved this episode. Stannis and Sam, Jon and Aemon, even a nice moment with Shireen and Davos. Have been waiting for Tormund to step into Mance's place, and watching he and Jon work it out was great...they have a long history together as one another's prisoners, and briefly, as fellow fighters on the Wildling team.

And, bros of the NW, yeah, you hate the wildlings, but who else is going to stand with you against the Others...you're undead meat if you don't get a clue.

Also, Myranda, you are so going to overplay your hand, and I can't wait to see you go down. Walda may hit the dirt first, though: sadly, she seems genuinely nice, if a little dim.

Ramsay saying  'the North remembers' made me want to scream. Roose is as repulsive as his mad dog son. Dinner with the Boltons is the stuff of nightmares.

[MrWhyt]

Because it's entirely possible that Roose Sr. might disinherit Ramsay in favor of Roose Jr. 

or just have him killed, simpler really, why leave a threat alive?

[BlackberryJam]

I found the Bolton bonding post dinner particularly...Boltony. 

Ramsay: How did you manage to impregnate your fatty wife?

Roose: Let me tell you how I raped your mother.

 

The acting this episode was brilliant and I loved everything about Old Valyria, from the story to the setting to the stone men.

 

Stannis and Fewer. Davos and Shireen. Sam and Stannis. All of it amazing.

[Brn2bwild]

But Ramsay knows that Bran and Rickon are still alive. If either of them show up, Sansa's claim only lasts as long as the Boltons control the North, and that only works if they are backed by the Lannisters, which will be over when Cersei realizes Sansa is in the North. 

 

Does Ramsay know, though?  I haven't watched Season 2 for a while, but I seem to recall that he didn't arrive until after Theon tried to show he was tough by "killing" Bran and Rickon.

[anyanka323]

Alfie Allen got to do some actual acting, which is nice, considering that this was supposed to be his big storyline, but so far literally every other major actor in it has gotten much more screentime than him.

Allen is one that makes the most out of his limited screentime.  With the changes in Emmy rules this year in how actors get placed in guest versus supporting, if he gets some good material and a couple killer scenes, he could get in guest actor.  The big change is that if an actor appears in less than 50% of the episodes, then they are still eligible in guest.  If more than half, they have to go supporting. 

[SeanC]

Allen is one that makes the most out of his limited screentime.  With the changes in Emmy rules this year in how actors get placed in guest versus supporting, if he gets some good material and a couple killer scenes, he could get in guest actor.  The big change is that if an actor appears in less than 50% of the episodes, then they are still eligible in guest.  If more than half, they have to go supporting. 

That was only if they aren't main cast.  Alfie is main cast, so he can only be supporting.

 

Does Ramsay know, though?  I haven't watched Season 2 for a while, but I seem to recall that he didn't arrive until after Theon tried to show he was tough by "killing" Bran and Rickon.

He learned about it from Theon in season 3.

[Avaleigh]

I'm not sure what to make of Roose telling Ramsay about his mother. How does that help Roose? Are we actually supposed to think that Roose thought this story would shake Ramsay's confidence? It's not as though Ramsay would have deluded himself into thinking that his mother was the great love of Roose's life or something. (It doesn't really make sense anyway why a practical man like Roose would be seemingly single without children apart from illegitimate Ramsay until marrying Walda.) At the same time, he gives him the whole I knew you were mine speech and it kind of reassures Ramsay as to his place in the grand scheme of things. Even though Roose sometimes reminds me of Tywin I have to admit that they have very different styles of parenting. Tywin was the type to tell his sons that they weren't his if they fucked up and with Roose it seems like he's more inclined to emphasize how important it is to do x, y, and z now that he's a Bolton and that includes dialing back his crude and cruel tendencies. 

 

I don't think Roose really gives a damn about whether Walda is fat or not but at the same time he seemed like he wanted to check Ramsay for making those digs about her.

 

I have to think that Ramsay thinks that as easy as it was for him to be legitimized that it could probably be taken away even easier especially if Tommen dies or is overthrown.

 

Other observations:

 

Before worrying that Theon was going to have a finger taken off I thought Ramsay might actually make Theon blow him.

Sansa seems to only own two dresses.

 

Wow, the actress who plays Myranda is super thin. I don't typically comment on the weight of actors but I thought that was super noticeable.

 

Does Ramsay know, though?  I haven't watched Season 2 for a while, but I seem to recall that he didn't arrive until after Theon tried to show he was tough by "killing" Bran and Rickon.

Theon confessed to Ramsay before he knew what a psychopath Ramsay is. 

[Shriekingeel]

So the title of the episode refers to 1) the first thing that goes through Ramsey's head after Walda's announcement, and 2) what Jon needs to do to Olly forthwith.