S05.E05: Kill The Boy

[benteen]

That was only if they aren't main cast.  Alfie is main cast, so he can only be supporting.

 

He learned about it from Theon in season 3.

 

I thought Alfie should have gotten an Emmy nod in Season 2.  If done correctly, the Reek stuff is Emmy-material.

 

As for why Roose told Ramsay the truth about his conception...I think he's trying to show his son that in the Bolton family, Roose is still King (or Lord) Sadist.

[BlackberryJam]

 

Before worrying that Theon was going to have a finger taken off I thought Ramsay might actually make Theon blow him.

 

 

Yep. And I was kind of hoping for an erect cock scene. But NO. I mean, just to balance the nudity...yeah, regs, I know I know. Still, a woman can dream.

[Bean421]

So the title of the episode refers to 1) the first thing that goes through Ramsey's head after Walda's announcement, and 2) what Jon needs to do to Olly forthwith.

Fully support #2. I get Tha Olay lost his family, yadda yadda, but the actor just grates on me.

[BloatedGuppy]

Eh. Middling episode.

 

• Not sure what the point of Myranda is, as a character. She doesn't give us any new insights into Ramsay, and is complete dead weight on her own. Somewhat reminiscent of Ros in that respect, although at least Ros had the purpose of letting Littlefinger give chaotic evil monologues to a random.
• Ramsay would never have Reek apologize to Sansa for "killing her brothers". That is acknowledging that Reek is Theon Greyjoy, and the entire purpose of the Reek persona was breaking down his identity. Even when he was allowed to "pose" as Theon to retake Moat Cailin, Ramsay always made it clear to him that it was a game/lie. Not a big deal (although it was a tepid scene), but a further reminder that the show writers really don't understand the characters very well.
• So Dany gets engaged to Hizadar after all that, in a super brief scene, with zero build up. The unspoiled viewers are completely confused and I don't blame them. Don't get me wrong, I prefer when the show remains (roughly) on book, but this really needed to be better established.
• I find the Missandei/Grey Worm "romance" to be one of the most singularly numbing and pointless extravagances of the television production. I'm sure that's an unpopular opinion, but there you have it.
• Glad to see the Stone Men. Unfortunately they looked a bit silly. Too uniformly grey. Looked like a bottom makeup on FaceOff. I can hear the judges griping about the monotone paint job now.
• The aesthetics of "ruined Valyria" were nice, although it looked exactly like Chroyane (to say nothing of the fact actually sailing through Valyria would be impossible). This is the kind of conjunction/compression the show must do in order to accumulate enough saved time to work in some scenes of Missandei and Grey Worm brooding or high octane characters like Myranda.
• Stannis is almost 100% of the way back to book Stannis at this point, which would merit righteous applause, if he wasn't headed off for a new massive deviation in the form of taking his entire court with him for the march on Winterfell. Okay then! Forced marches through hostile countryside in inclement weather are always improved by bringing along a baggage train of small, ill children and their gormless mothers.
• Like the Jon/Tormund scene, although I have to laugh at the "you have to come with me" nonsense. "We need to give you something to do for an episode, Kit Harrington!" 
• Feel like the greyscale reveal was a bit wasted, being as rushed as it was. Would've had more impact had they let it stew for a couple of episodes. Not to mention it makes the disease look ridiculously fast.
• Roose taunting Ramsay with the potential for a new, trueborn son seems completely pointless. Roose is a tactical man with icewater in his veins. Why would he needlessly provoke his emotionally and mentally unstable bastard son? What does he gain?

[Avaleigh]

One thing that I thought was funny was how Tyrion was trying to explain his alcoholism to Jorah. He's so matter of fact about it and Jorah is about as unmoved as it gets. 

 

The aesthetics of "ruined Valyria" were nice, although it looked exactly like Chroyane (to say nothing of the fact actually sailing through Valyria would be impossible).

The ruins of Valyria that I imagined when reading the books is a lot darker and scarier. I almost thought the place was too pretty on the show. I also thought it was supposed to have dangers left and right and this place seemed almost peaceful save the Stone Men. I'm guessing there is no smoking sea in the showverse? 

I thought Alfie should have gotten an Emmy nod in Season 2.  If done correctly, the Reek stuff is Emmy-material.

 

As for why Roose told Ramsay the truth about his conception...I think he's trying to show his son that in the Bolton family, Roose is still King (or Lord) Sadist.

In a way the story isn't unlike Walder Frey telling one of his sons that he'd be nothing if he hadn't squirted him into his milkmaid mother. 

 

Roose's story about Ramsay's conception was really chilling to me. Not only is his behavior horrific but the way he tells about all of these things that he's done as though he's talking to Ramsay about nothing more important than the weather. He thinks it was his right to kill that man and rape Ramsay's mother and to him these are simply matters fact and certainly not anything to feel a trace of shame or guilt about.

[MrWhyt]

So the title of the episode refers to 1) the first thing that goes through Ramsey's head after Walda's announcement, and 2) what Jon needs to do to Olly forthwith.

or what Maester Aemon flat out told Jon to do.

[Shriekingeel]

Not sure what the point of Myranda is, as a character. She doesn't give us any new insights into Ramsay, and is complete dead weight on her own.

There is no way any woman from the Dreadfort would dare speak/act with Ramsey the way Myranda does. That scene didn't ring true at all.

[Happy Harpy]

Tyrion's forced rehab boat trip had Amy Winehouse's song fleeting in my head for a short moment. Maybe that's what he was singing last week?

 

I feel that the condensed TV plots make the parallel between Jon and Daenerys more evident with each episode. Their storylines seem to be the backbone of the season so far. And I like it.

Dany speaking Valyrian = Badass Dany. Welcome back! Digging the friendship with Missandei. And I like that she chose to marry, after being pawned in S1. She finds her political mind back, she learns to make compromises without compromissions. The marriage idea didn't shock me, since it's been established since the beginning, and again this season with Ramsay/Sansa, that it's the number one way of creating alliances or of strengthening a political hold on a territory. Dany knows that first hand, and I thought that Missandei mentioning "solutions only she can see" triggered that solution in Dany's mind, as a meta-reference to her personal history.

All my predictions are generally wrong, but for once I wasn't too off the mark with the Dany/dragons relationship. She did talk of discipline, and the link doesn't seem broken.

But the whole thing made me feel that Jon is the most lonely one, and I felt for him more than for Daenerys. She has her army, and still a good part of the people with her, Daario and Missandei and Grey Worm are fully behind her. Jon only has Sam and Aemon now, with the latter probably dying soon and the other probably leaving soon, if I rely on the 100 tons anvil that just fell about Old Town. My poor baby. At least he's safe from Melisandre's boobies of Hell. 

 

Still having candles lit for Shireen and Davos to survive. 

 

On a side note, how refreshing that a library, and not a brothel, is used for exposition! 

 

My poor Jorah! Nooo! The only good news for me is that it means no JonCon. One down, one to go. Although a mash with another character would annoy me less than the idea of a lost Targaryen coming out of nowhere.

Aw, Jorah calls him "Tyrion" now, isn't that cute? I found that the scene at the beach, when Tyrion woke up, was bordering on romantic, LOL.

Tyrion looking at Drogo (it had to be him, right? They won't find a Valyrian dragon ex-machina nest just in time for the ultimate battle, right?) was so great.

 

 Of course Miranda is the kennel's master daughter (I had to chuckle). A match made in devious heaven with Ramsay. 

 

 

I admit, I'm not quite sure what Sansa is playing at at the moment.  Not that I can't blame her for not liking the Boltons but she's either playing her own game or just sitting around sulking.

I kind of like the ambivalence. I found that her transformation was coming out of the blue, in S4, and I wouldn't have been able to believe it, if Sansa had suddenly been a master manipulator out of nowhere. 

I have to say that I prefer her sulking to her apathetic, long-suffering stares of S2-3. It makes her more dynamic as a character, which makes her more interesting in my eyes.

I can understand how she can't always hide what she feels, considering where she is, with all the memories it evokes, and who she's with. Plus, I agree that being too meek would probably be more suspect in front of Roose and maybe Ramsay...although I feel that the latter is still looking for an angle with her. A bit of sass might be a rather good strategy, too, especially after Ramsay's words about being bored. If it doesn't make him want to tame her more, of course. Brr.

But for me, being conceited, self-centered and unsavvy with people has always been part of Sansa's personality imo. I felt that this side of her personality reappeared when she slapped Robin -yes it was deserved, but a bad idea because she was in Lysa's power then. And it does in Winterfell. I find it normal, coherent, and it makes her evolution, belatedly, more believable. For now, she's only still a teenager (I can't say a child, S.Turner doesn't look like one anymore in spite of the good childish/sulking acting) in the shark tank, and she learns how to swim. It's good enough for me. 

But FGS, Sansa, don't obey to a girl you've just met in a castle full of your enemies and don't go into a kennel with vicious barking dogs! That was dumb. Now I'm afraid that she'll believe Myranda is the one who gave the message to the old woman.

About the message, giving it to Sansa in the same episode as Brienne's discussion with the old man felt like an anvil, but on the other hand, if it had been given episodes apart, I wouldn't wonder so much whether it's a trap made in Ramsay, in an attempt to define who Sansa is and how he might be able to get to her.

True.  I would also suggest that the Stannis/Shireen dynamic is an interesting foil to Tywin/Tyrion.  

 

Even though Roose sometimes reminds me of Tywin I have to admit that they have very different styles of parenting. Tywin was the type to tell his sons that they weren't his if they fucked up and with Roose it seems like he's more inclined to emphasize how important it is to do x, y, and z now that he's a Bolton and that includes dialing back his crude and cruel tendencies. 

There was a definite contrast between Roose and Stannis, and I agree that Roose and Tywin are different on some points but there are also parallels and commmon grounds and here I thought they were stressed. Roose not throwing Ramsay in the river, Tywin not throwing Tyrion in the sea. Moreover, I see the same kind of emotional manipulation of his children in Roose that I saw in Tywin. 

Until now, I thought that Ramsay was going to doom his father, or betray him and take his place. Now, I wonder whether Ramsay isn't completely out of his depth with Roose. It's like watching to sharks circling each other, wondering which one is going to attack and bloodily end the other (yes, I know that "wolves" would be a more common and/or zoologically accurate comparison, but no wolves for the Boltons. I can't).

 

Where the hell is Arya? I miss Arya. Maybe it means she's training offscreen and needs to be absent to come back even more badass and lethal...just in time for Meryn Trant's boat to arrive in Braavos. I am soooo waiting for this. 

 

The timeline is quite fleeting (not that the books seem 100% tidy about it). I can suspend disbelief. I can imagine that an episode spans on several days; explaining for example how Sansa and Creepyfinger trip was so short. But other markers are off. Gilly's son should definitely be like one or two years old now, way beyond the "doll in a rag can pass for a baby" phase imo.

 

It sounded like lots of setting up and exposition, which seem to fit the purpose/tone of the two last books according to many, but it's quite efficient and interesting character-wise, imo. Shit is gonna get real when it hits the fan, and I can't wait for that.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[Anisky]

The big change is that if an actor appears in less than 50% of the episodes, then they are still eligible in guest. 

 

Fewer. 

 

(Sorry, I had to. ;-) ) 

[Holmbo]

Another very enjoyable episode to me. Everything at the wall was great as usual (except Olly but it's OK, he's just some mirra maz duhr 2.0 anyway). Dany was also the most enjoyable she's been the whole season. I don't think being careful and reactive suits her character. It's good to see her take some in initiatives.

I loved the craziness of Roose's fox hunting story being a you-are-my-son speech in the show.

Also the final scene with Jorah sums up how much quicker the show gets through things than the book at this point. A set up and reveal which takes half a book happens in five minutes in the show.

[patchwork]

Sansa has to walk a fine line with how she acts, if she's too antagonist they'll kill her and they'd never buy it if she tries to be friendly. Stoic with a sulky edge is probably the best she can do without over playing her hand. What I'd love to see is some one on one time with Ramsay where she throws a bit of Margaery style flirty manipulation (season 3 Marg /Joffrey not the Marg/Tommen stuff we're getting now). She's learned to manoeuvre from the best in Kings Landing and this is the time to put it to work. 

 

The lighting was really dark during the dinner scene but Sansa's dress looked very Cat-like to me.

 

I refuse to believe anything bad will happen to Jorah but the Stone Men were suitably creepy and I do believe that Tyrion and Jorah have taken one step closer to bro-hood.

 

Maybe the Maesters of Old Town send out news digests via raven mail and every Maester in Westeros received an update about Dany's going ons in Mereen.   

[Lady S.]

Yep. And I was kind of hoping for an erect cock scene. But NO. I mean, just to balance the nudity...yeah, regs, I know I know. Still, a woman can dream.

When do you ever see an onscreen erect cock outside of porn? When we saw Theon's dearly departed dong in his sexposition scene with Ros it was fully limp.

[GreyBunny]

Jorah, NOOOOO!  I thought it would happen but still, NOOOOO!  Just when he and Tyrion were starting to get along. Jorah's probably going to go on some suicide combat mission so he can die fighting instead of rotting from greyscale.

 

Great stuff at the wall, everyone was stellar.  Stannis and fewer - he can correct my grammar anytime he wants.

 

More Jon Targaryen anvil drops. 

 

The Boltons are horrible in the best way possible.  I could watch an entire episode of the Bolton Family Adventures.

 

What I wouldn't give to have Jorah and Roose have a scene together, they would have a sexiest voice-off.

Edited May 11, 2015 by GreyBunny

[Oscirus]

Since the time this series has started, Sansa has always been snarky with the people she' forced to marry. I don't expect her to stop now. Esp when she's in her house and she has plenty of protection.  

 

I thought the Roose- Ramsay talk was indicative of Roose underestimating Ramsey. I don't doubt that Ramsey wouldn't hesitate to give Walda an "accidental" abortion once the coast is clear.

 

As bad ass as that dragon scene was. Dany should probably be given the current state of her cabinet, and the current relations with her people. Now's probably not the time to be forcing her will onto her kingdom.

 

Is there any point to the missandrei Grey worm romance?  I get they're trying to humanize the unsullied, but this is not the way to do it.

 

So the Jon = jesus imagery is getting loueder and louder.

 

 Stannis is going to regret bringing his family along on that war.

 

Speaking of that war, it's going to be lame if that's the ninth episode this year.

 

So Jorah and possibly Tyrion are bringing a good old dose of greyscale Dany's way. That should be interesting.

 

They probably should've ended the episode with Tyrion being pulled underwater for maximum tension.

 

Very good title since this episode represented the maturation of Dany and Jon. It would be interesting if this is also the episode where Tyrion finally conquers his alcoholism.

 

 

[J----av]

Sansa has to walk a fine line with how she acts, if she's too antagonist they'll kill her and they'd never buy it if she tries to be friendly. Stoic with a sulky edge is probably the best she can do without over playing her hand. What I'd love to see is some one on one time with Ramsay where she throws a bit of Margaery style flirty manipulation (season 3 Marg /Joffrey not the Marg/Tommen stuff we're getting now). She's learned to manoeuvre from the best in Kings Landing and this is the time to put it to work. 

 

The lighting was really dark during the dinner scene but Sansa's dress looked very Cat-like to me.

 

I refuse to believe anything bad will happen to Jorah but the Stone Men were suitably creepy and I do believe that Tyrion and Jorah have taken one step closer to bro-hood.

 

Maybe the Maesters of Old Town send out news digests via raven mail and every Maester in Westeros received an update about Dany's going ons in Mereen.   

 

 Ramsay isn't as stupid as Joffrey. He would see right through that, think its boring and probably punish her for it. Ramsay is not the kind of guy that will do as you say because you bat your lashes at him. Unless she starts going on some Ramsay hunting trips, i don't see her manipulating him

[WearyTraveler]

Speaking of wonky timelines and traveling, when Jon mentioned the White Walkers it dawned on me that the whole attack at the Fist happened back in season 2. How is it that the White Walkers haven't attacked by now? They should totally be up the Night's Watch ass at this point. 

 

They haven't attacked in the books either, and they've had plenty of time there to do so.  I think it's because they need the cold to be functional (I was going to say "live" but they're undead).  This is why they keep saying "Winter is coming".  The WW come with the cold.

 

She's not really got any "game" to play other than try to win over Ramsay, which she doesn't appear to be trying to do -- the rest is just waiting around to be rescued by Stannis (or, in this episode, an alternative form of rescue delivered by the needlessly cryptic lady).  She doesn't actually have anything else to accomplish in Winterfell.

 

I think they are setting it up so that Sansa works with her hidden friends to undermine the Boltons from within.  It'd be cool if this old "washerwoman" would do some killing of her own.  No one would see her coming because how can such a fragile, little old lady be a threat?

 

BTW, nice to see the Broken Tower again, where this whole business started.

 

I was also remembering Bran's "fall" during that scene.  It made me want to check in on him and see what he was up to with Bloodraven.  Too bad he's not going to appear this season.  I've been thinking that given the actor's growth spurt and monumental changes from the little boy we met in S1, the show might have taken him off-screen so that when we see him again half merged with a tree, the difference won't be so jarring. 

[Hecate7]

Fully support #2. I get Tha Olay lost his family, yadda yadda, but the actor just grates on me.

 

It is interesting to me how many people have to put up with people who have killed their families, on this show. Ollie doesn't want to make peace with wildlings because they killed his parents. But he killed Ygritte and Jon Snow doesn't hold it against him. Sansa sat and ate with Roose Bolton, who is literally the killer of Robb Stark, and Walda Frey, whose family did awful things to Robb's corpse and who set the trap in the first place. Oh, and drink wine poured by Theon, who Sansa still believes killed her brothers.

[ElizaD]

To me Dany looked like the Mad King, arranging a random execution and giving every survivor a reason to become a Harpy now that she might make them dragonfood on a whim, but since the showrunners didn't think Tywin was a bad guy who destabilized the realm for petty revenge I'm afraid the scene was meant to show Dany as a badass. Dany going to an imprisoned Hizdahr and saying he'll marry her, no reply required, is creepily similar to Sansa's forced marriages: I'm not sure if that's intentional and Dany is meant to be going downhill like in ADWD when she ordered a man's daughters tortured for information, or if it'll be justified later by Show Hizdahr turning out to be a Harpy so that it was alright to mistreat him, or if it's just plain not thinking about the implications.

 

The lone Targaryen/Jon arrives thing was obvious and hilarious. Though Kit isn't the kind of actor to elevate his material, at least this season he finally has good material and his story has become much more watchable.

 

The fandom's love for Roose's line about raping Ramsay's mother as something awesome has always creeped me out, so I'm not thrilled that the backstory was included on the show, though it's exactly the kind of thing I expect the showrunners to love. I predict a Talisa parallel for Walda: pregnant woman brutally killed.

 

What wouldn't I give for Missandei/Grey Worm scenes to be cut in favor of screentime explaining that the Starks weren't the only ones murdered at the Red Wedding and that Ned's way of ruling actually earned him loyalty that's not just about the Stark name having a long history. But it would show that respecting the law and showing compassion can have positive consequences, too, and we can't have that on Game of Thrones.

 

At least Shireen will keep on being the cutest thing ever and cheering me up until she gets killed. Show Stannis treating war with the Boltons like Take Your Kid to Work Day screams doom.

 

I think this is the first episode that didn't feature King's Landing, not counting the Wall battle which wasn't an ordinary episode. Good. The show should have done that sooner, preferably during season 3 when KL was mostly filler.

[Haleth]

Sansa may be only pouting now, but I think her role is going to be the symbol for the Winterfell smallfolk (and Theon?) to begin a quiet rebellion.  She may or may not be directing the mayhem but on the surface she needs to act cool and emotionless.  Roose can't suspect that she has the means or nerve to act on her own.  But in any case I don't think Walda is going to make it to delivery.  She may be the first Bolton casualty and not from Sansa's supporters.  Roose's charming story about Ramsey's birth reminds him that Roose cannot be 100% certain that the baby was his.

 

I think the show writers are doing a bang up job on combining stories and characters.  Subbing Jorah for Jon Con was a great idea.  Having Dany come up with the plan to wed Hizdar makes her seem more politically minded (even though that too backfires). 

 

I was sort of surprised that Aemon's Targ reminiscing didn't lead to Mel eyeing him and Jon coming up with the idea to ship him and Sam off to OldTown.  It seems this will happen without the fear that Mel will want his blood.  (Those black glass candles have to be significant.)

 

Grey Worm lives!  Yay!

 

It wasn't until after the episode ended that I realized there were no KL scenes.  And I didn't miss them one bit.  Really good episode.  Must watch again.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Haleth

[CrashTextDummie]

The scene of Drogon flying over Tyron/Jorah was breathtakingly awesome. It made me feel more than anything so far like Dany's storyline is finally coming together with the rest. Tyron is fundamentally a King's Landing character and he has now encountered a dragon. How awesome is that? It also segued really well into the stone men attack. Really strongly directed sequence.

 

It's amazing what a horror show Winterfell is even without anyone getting tortured or maimed. People scoffed at the gratuitous torture porn in seasons past but I feel it has been singularily effective at setting up the Bolton residence as a place of unimaginable malice and dread. Of course it also helps a lot that a character we care about is in the midst of it in Sansa.

 

I've always been on team Stannis and it's a continued delight how well the show is treating him this season.

[Winnief]

It wasn't until after the episode ended that I realized there were no KL scenes.  And I didn't miss them one bit

 

I know!  As I noted in another thread, the drama we're seeing at the Wall these days, makes KL seem so petty in comparison and that is the whole freaking point.  And I think that yet another reason the show runners sent Sansa up North, (besides setting up a Stark reunion and condensing things,) was because it also signals pretty clearly that right now what's happening in the North, (and with the dragons) is what matters.  Everything else is just a distraction. 

 

I miss Manderly, but I must say Sansa being rescued by smallfolk loyal to her family could be pretty satisfying as well.  And the Boltons are GOING DOWN and that can't happen soon enough.  It's a shame though, that poor, sweet, dim Walda is likely doomed too, and NOT at the hands of Stannis.  I do look forward to when Sansa learns the truth from Theon about her brothers being alive. 

 

God I loved the shot of Drogon.  LOVED IT!!!

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Nick's recap! http://previously.tv/game-of-thrones/ride-stannis-ride/

[mac123x]

The aesthetics of "ruined Valyria" were nice, although it looked exactly like Chroyane (to say nothing of the fact actually sailing through Valyria would be impossible).

The ruins of Valyria that I imagined when reading the books is a lot darker and scarier. I almost thought the place was too pretty on the show. I also thought it was supposed to have dangers left and right and this place seemed almost peaceful save the Stone Men. I'm guessing there is no smoking sea in the showverse?

 

Jorah and Tyrion made passing reference to the Smoking Sea, which I think was represented by the light fog seen in the background.  That was kind of disappointing;  I always pictured it looking more like those nature films you see of Kiluea dumping lava into the ocean.  Lots of smoke and steam and noxious gases.

 

If you look at the non-to-scale map in the opening sequence, they seem to have cut out the Valyrian peninsula, so the coastline from Volantis to Slaver's Bay looks pretty smooth.  I guess this is to shorten Tyrion / Jorah's voyage.

[jcin617]

• Stannis is almost 100% of the way back to book Stannis at this point, which would merit righteous applause, if he wasn't headed off for a new massive deviation in the form of taking his entire court with him for the march on Winterfell. Okay then! Forced marches through hostile countryside in inclement weather are always improved by bringing along a baggage train of small, ill children and their gormless mothers.

If the North knows Stannis is marching to liberate Winterfell from the Boltons, I'm not sure how much of the countryside will be hostile towards him.  While they might not bend the knee to him as King, they probably wouldn't oppose him either, especially if word has travelled that there's a Stark in Winterfell.

 

 I'm guessing there is no smoking sea in the showverse? 

 

Didn't Jorah or Tyrion mention the Smoking Sea as they were sailing into Valyria.  

Edited May 11, 2015 by jcin617

[Constantinople]

They probably should've ended the episode with Tyrion being pulled underwater for maximum tension.

I'm glad they didn't do that since I think it would have been one of those fake cliffhangers that fools no one, not even people who haven't read the books. For example, I don't think anyone, or very few, thought that Theon actually killed Bran and Rickson when a Season 2 episode ended with hanging the 2 charred bodies.

 

 

I think this is the first episode that didn't feature King's Landing, not counting the Wall battle which wasn't an ordinary episode. Good. The show should have done that sooner, preferably during season 3 when KL was mostly filler.

I believe the Kingsroad episode, the second of the series, didn't have any scenes in KL, but it certainly had a number of KL characters: Robert, Cersei, Joffrey, the Hound, Ilyn Payne, Tyrion, Jaime

[Malaprop cocktail]

The "lone Targaryan"/Jon Snow transition was acceptable to me given the show can't pepper in endless "Promise me, Ned" reminders like the book. I still doubt many casual watchers will pick up on it. Take my non-reader husband who, despite the 3 or so mentions of greyscale/stone men in the "previously on," and an entire scene where scaley dudes attacked a boat and Jorah made extra sure to point out that they were contagious, still asked "What is that?" when Jorah saw the scales on his arm.

 

The Valyria scene was great. The whole time, I was on edge waiting for the stone men to appear, and as Tyrion and Jorah were watching Drogon fly off, you can just see a stone man on the bridge waiting to pounce. Really beautiful and well done. Even the muted colors of the boat looked awesome amid the grays of the ruins.

 

I really like the different route the show is taking to get Dany wed to Hizdahr. In particular the book made it seem to me that he wore her down about the fighting pits. By imprisoning him and then coming to tell him she is reopening the pits, she gets to own the decision. Especially in Daario's absence.

 

I was a little confounded by the dinner scene with the Boltons and Sansa. Wasn't Show Ramsay supposed to be pretending to be a nice guy for the time being? That really went out the window, but Sansa didn't seem shocked or even unnerved by it, and yet she isn't trying to seduce him like Littlefinger suggested, so what is going on? And maybe I missed it, but I thought she didn't know he used to be a bastard. Judging by her amused reaction to Walda's announcement, she must know by now. So unless she has some definitive plan (waiting for rescue? lighting the candle in the high tower?), she seems to be going ahead with marrying him even though 1) he is a sadist and 2) he may very well be disinherited/discredited. The situation at Winterfell is so different this week compared to last that I feel like I missed an episode even though I didn't.

 

I loved a subtle little parallel in Sam's scenes with Gilly and Stannis. First, he assumes knowledge on Gilly's part, and she has to ask him to explain stuff like the Citadel. Then Stannis comes in (and it was hilarious when Gilly ran away like Napoleon Dynamite) and Sam starts to explain what dragonglass is. Stannis barks back that he knows what it is, they had it at Dragonstone. Just a really great portrayal of the naive and hesitant wildling vs. the experienced and confident king, and the way Sam is essentially a different person in their respective company--he's a wise and erudite teacher when he's with Gilly, but reverts back to the sheltered, self-doubting boy when he's talking to Stannis.

[Haleth]

So if Mel is riding off with Stannis, what is going to happen when Jon gets stabbed?  I know readers generally think in the book she is going to reanimate him, so in the show will he not be as badly injured and will recover on his own?

 

The "lone Targaryan"/Jon Snow transition was acceptable to me given the show can't pepper in endless "Promise me, Ned" reminders like the book. I still doubt many casual watchers will pick up on it.

 

It's funny that the Unsullied (who are not casual watchers) have picked up on Jon's probable parentage.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Haleth

[Ottis]

I'm not sure if it says more about me, or this show, that when Drogon flew over Tyrion and Mormont, *I didn't recognize it as a dragon.* I was puzzled, thinking, "is there a place in this world where they have dinosaurs?" Probably more about me. However, the way this show jumps around, I find some transitions jarring.

 

This season still feels very slow to me. I think it is because no one is in immediate danger aside from the quick, suddent threat that pops up now and then. Sansa comes closest, I suppose. But I feel no sense or urgency for anyone. This is the only season where i multitask while watching GoT.

 

So Dany had the one guy fried and eaten without knowing whether he did anything wrong? Did I miss a meaningful glance or another clue?

[nodorothyparker]

To me Dany looked like the Mad King, arranging a random execution and giving every survivor a reason to become a Harpy now that she might make them dragonfood on a whim, but since the showrunners didn't think Tywin was a bad guy who destabilized the realm for petty revenge I'm afraid the scene was meant to show Dany as a badass. Dany going to an imprisoned Hizdahr and saying he'll marry her, no reply required, is creepily similar to Sansa's forced marriages: I'm not sure if that's intentional and Dany is meant to be going downhill like in ADWD when she ordered a man's daughters tortured for information, or if it'll be justified later by Show Hizdahr turning out to be a Harpy so that it was alright to mistreat him, or if it's just plain not thinking about the implications.

 

The lone Targaryen/Jon arrives thing was obvious and hilarious. Though Kit isn't the kind of actor to elevate his material, at least this season he finally has good material and his story has become much more watchable.

 

The fandom's love for Roose's line about raping Ramsay's mother as something awesome has always creeped me out, so I'm not thrilled that the backstory was included on the show, though it's exactly the kind of thing I expect the showrunners to love. I predict a Talisa parallel for Walda: pregnant woman brutally killed.

 

What wouldn't I give for Missandei/Grey Worm scenes to be cut in favor of screentime explaining that the Starks weren't the only ones murdered at the Red Wedding and that Ned's way of ruling actually earned him loyalty that's not just about the Stark name having a long history. But it would show that respecting the law and showing compassion can have positive consequences, too, and we can't have that on Game of Thrones.

I was definitely getting a Mad King vibe from Dany in the dragon torching scene. She seemed absolutely mesmerized by the sight of the flames very much in the way that Jaime and other characters describe the Mad King near the end. Throw in the arbitrary torching of the head of a great house and threatening to kill the rest, and how she is really any different from Aerys burning the Starks? Again, I know we're not supposed to think about these things or care because Oh cool, DRAGONS! but she's very much her father's daughter. I'm also not sure how dictating a marriage to one of their nobles when she's never made any secret of considering them practice before abandoning them for her "real" kingdom is going to help either. It certain didn't in the books.

I'm profoundly disappointed Grey Worm survived. His romance with Missandei alternately bores/squicks me out. I simply don't care. It also doesn't help that I can only understand about every third word the actor says, although luckily he rarely seems to say anything important.

I love how thoroughly fucked up/dysfunctional dinner with the Boltons is, and I love how they manage to be completely and grimly awful in a very different way than the Lannisters or even the Freys. I have a feeling show Ramsey will be borrowing a page from book Ramsey and Walda and Baby Bolton will never see delivery. Roose's story was more than just an opportunity to remind us what an icy sociopath he is in his own right. He was reminding Ramsey that he was bastard born of smallfolk and he's where he is now because Roose chose to claim and elevate him, with the implication that he can choose to be rid of him just as easily now that he has an impending trueborn alternative should Ramsey prove to disappoint.

Alfie Allen continues to do great work with what he's given.

Edited May 11, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[Avaleigh]

To me Dany looked like the Mad King, arranging a random execution and giving every survivor a reason to become a Harpy now that she might make them dragonfood on a whim, but since the showrunners didn't think Tywin was a bad guy who destabilized the realm for petty revenge I'm afraid the scene was meant to show Dany as a badass. Dany going to an imprisoned Hizdahr and saying he'll marry her, no reply required, is creepily similar to Sansa's forced marriages: I'm not sure if that's intentional and Dany is meant to be going downhill like in ADWD when she ordered a man's daughters tortured for information, or if it'll be justified later by Show Hizdahr turning out to be a Harpy so that it was alright to mistreat him, or if it's just plain not thinking about the implications.

 

The lone Targaryen/Jon arrives thing was obvious and hilarious. Though Kit isn't the kind of actor to elevate his material, at least this season he finally has good material and his story has become much more watchable.

 

The fandom's love for Roose's line about raping Ramsay's mother as something awesome has always creeped me out, so I'm not thrilled that the backstory was included on the show, though it's exactly the kind of thing I expect the showrunners to love. I predict a Talisa parallel for Walda: pregnant woman brutally killed.

 

What wouldn't I give for Missandei/Grey Worm scenes to be cut in favor of screentime explaining that the Starks weren't the only ones murdered at the Red Wedding and that Ned's way of ruling actually earned him loyalty that's not just about the Stark name having a long history. But it would show that respecting the law and showing compassion can have positive consequences, too, and we can't have that on Game of Thrones.

 

At least Shireen will keep on being the cutest thing ever and cheering me up until she gets killed. Show Stannis treating war with the Boltons like Take Your Kid to Work Day screams doom.

 

I think this is the first episode that didn't feature King's Landing, not counting the Wall battle which wasn't an ordinary episode. Good. The show should have done that sooner, preferably during season 3 when KL was mostly filler.

I agree with you in part about Dany in that she seems slightly mad, a little unhinged. I think it's possible though for the moment to be both badass and 'oh shit, she's kind of scary crazy'. The look on her face as she saw the guy get roasted and then eaten--she looked fascinated and it totally reminded me of Cersei watching the wildfire burning the Tower of the Hand. I agree too that Hizdahr has every reason to become a harpy now if he wasn't one before and I think this makes it more exciting. I also liked that Dany had the idea for the marriage as opposed to Hizdahr. I actually really like what the show has done with Hizdahr so far. He's more understandable to me in the show than in the book.  

 

I definitely felt the absence of King's Landing. Less than halfway in I suspected that we wouldn't be going there and I'd much prefer to have King's Landing scenes rather than Missandei and Grey Worm. 

 

For me it isn't necessary to spend more time on the Northern lords who want the Starks back in power. Inclusions like Lyanna Mormont's letter are enough for me and I'm sure we'll get more details like this. As far as certain Northerners continued loyalty to the Starks, I can see how some people would blame the Starks for why they're dealing with certain things in the first place. Ned takes some of their men down to King's Landing never to return, Ned's in a position of power, he, his son, and his wife make some pretty public and glaring mistakes, and some of these mistakes help add to getting a lot of Northerners killed. The Karstarks lost their lord at the hands of a Stark. The Boltons have been running wild for years what with Roose letting us know that he's into the First Night thing and to me this suggests that Ned either knew and did nothing or had no idea what some of his lords and people were up to. As far as the Red Wedding, Robb broke a vow and then continued to put his trust in the guy he broke his word to and a bunch of Northern men ended up losing their lives. I can see why there would be some feelings of frustration wrt to the Starks leading the North yet the books would basically make it seem like the men who want to rescue Ned's little girl think the Starks were practically perfect in every way and I at least feel like there should have been a little resentment (resentment that they would ultimately overcome of course) or something to get across how frustrating it can sometimes be to have continued loyalty to a particular chosen family under these circumstances.

 

I don't believe that the horror of the Red Wedding is something that hasn't been emphasized enough on the show. There's only so much time. 

 

As for the show including Roose telling Ramsay that he's a product of rape--this is a case of something making total sense to the story IMO. I also think that even though Roose killed Robb that the Unsullied need the occasional reminder of what a sick ticket he is at the end of the day. There's a lot of Roose chastising or criticizing some horrible thing that Ramsay has done and that I think sometimes gives people the impression that Roose isn't as bad or that he doesn't rape and torture as well whenever it suits his purpose. He's just slightly more refined when it comes to his behavior but at the end of the day he's a disgusting character and I think it's good to get a reminder every now and then. 

 

I get disliking the idea of some people cheering on Roose telling Ramsay about that but I don't agree that the showrunners should have cut it because there are fans out there who are going to have a gleeful and fucked up take on it all. 

Edited May 11, 2015 by Avaleigh

[Maximum Taco]

So if Mel is riding off with Stannis, what is going to happen when Jon gets stabbed?  I know readers generally think in the book she is going to reanimate him, so in the show will he not be as badly injured and will recover on his own?

 

The show has really downplayed the resurrection by R'hllor.

 

Sure we got a tiny bit of Beric, but he's been largely phased out. I'm not sure if show watchers even remember him.

 

With the removal of Lady Stoneheart it might just be confusing if Mel ends up resurrecting Jon.

[proserpina65]

Really loving Jon this season, and he's making the right decision...but it's gonna get him killed.  (If only temporarily.)  What makes it so great and so tragic is that I can actually see where the people likely to do the deed, like Olly among others are coming from.

 

Just so long as they don't make Edd part of it.  Hear that, Show?  DO NOT make Edd part of the stabbing conspiracy!!

Jorah. Damn. They managed to startle me with the Stonemen because they distracted me with the shiny of Drogon. Sneaky.

 

I had actually noticed something that looked like a statue on the bit of architecture (a bridge or aqueduct of some sort?) which Tyrion and Jorah were approaching, and thought "Uh Oh!" and then was distracted by Drogon.  So they still managed to startle me, even with the tension that was building throughout the scene.  Indeed, that entire scene was a magnificent example of GOT at its very best.

[proserpina65]

Jon isn't putting enough emphasis on the White Walkers. They're talking too much about the wildlings and less about the fact that they could barely defend themselves against the wildling attack and now they're just going to go for round two only this time they'll be wightified wildlings who are being led by the White Walkers. I felt like he wasn't putting it to them in a way that emphasized how serious the White Walker situation. Rather than stating that the guy was there at the Fist why not ask him to describe it and ask them how they plan on defending themselves against an undead army?

 

I've really felt that the show was failing on this front since the beginning of Season 3.  There's just not the sense of urgency about the White Walkers and their army of the no longer dead, to the point where I was almost surprised that Jon brought it up at all.  That really should've been his first, and only, argument for letting the remains of Mance's army through the gate - that they would end up having to fight the reanimated corpse of anyone left beyond the Wall.

[proserpina65]

this time alongside Ramsay, who, whatever else one might say about him, has a nice ass),

 

Yes, that is his one redeeming feature.  No pancake ass there.

Edited May 11, 2015 by proserpina65

[SeanC]

So unless she has some definitive plan (waiting for rescue? lighting the candle in the high tower?), she seems to be going ahead with marrying him even though 1) he is a sadist and 2) he may very well be disinherited/discredited. 

We were told the plan last week:  (1)  Sit around waiting to be rescued and, if that doesn't work, (2) make Ramsay your own (somehow).

[proserpina65]

I think this is the first episode that didn't feature King's Landing, not counting the Wall battle which wasn't an ordinary episode. Good. The show should have done that sooner, preferably during season 3 when KL was mostly filler.

 

Less King's Landing would've allowed for more Beyond the Wall and more aftermath of the Fist of the First Men and the harrowing retreat from it, thus allowing that storyline some room to breath.  (And I say that as someone who never cared for Jon Snow until ADWD.)

[nksarmi]

Stannis? You had me at "Fewer".

I know!  I am seriously considering cheering him to sit the Iron Throne now. :)

 

Still, I hope his wife dies soon.

Edited May 11, 2015 by nksarmi

[Malaprop cocktail]

We were told the plan last week:  (1)  Sit around waiting to be rescued and, if that doesn't work, (2) make Ramsay your own (somehow).

 

Which is why I qualified that by saying "definitive plan." She seems to have gone all-in on the vague hope that Stannis rescues her, because her demeanor at the table in last night's episode was a total 180 from her polite introduction to Roose and Ramsay just the other day. Unless she somehow senses that pushing back at Ramsay is the best way to handle him, the way Myranda seems to have, but there wasn't really any indication of that. Everyone's behavior in that scene just felt off to me.

[nksarmi]

So if Mel is riding off with Stannis, what is going to happen when Jon gets stabbed?  I know readers generally think in the book she is going to reanimate him, so in the show will he not be as badly injured and will recover on his own?

 

It's funny that the Unsullied (who are not casual watchers) have picked up on Jon's probable parentage.

I wondered about this and it has made me wonder everything from maybe they won't stab him at all to maybe they will actually just kill him off?

 

I can't believe that Jon doesn't live in the books simply because the questions of his birth have been so harped upon but not yet revealed.  But Jon's stabbing - like Cersei's walk of shame - seems to big to lose from the show.

 

Perhaps Bran saves him?  I don't know exactly how this could be, but even if Jon is a Targ, he still has the blood of the First Men in his veins and it might be more appropriate for Bran and/or the Children of the Forest to be Jon's savior.

[Latverian Diplomat]

Err...did people return to Valyria sometime in this show?  That fishing village that Jorah is going to get a boat from seems to suggest it.  Maybe we'll get to see Gerion Lanister. 

I think the idea was that they were skirting the edge of Valyria and are now on the coast of Essos, where you can still see the part of Valyria where they were in the distance. It's possible in the show that that part of Valyria is considered safe enough to dump people infected with Greyscale on (instead of sailing them up to Chroyane). Downtown Valyria could be much more volcanic and desolate. 

 

Because it's entirely possible that Roose Sr. might disinherit Ramsay in favor of Roose Jr. 

Futhermore, Roose is a master of knife twisting too, even of the metaphorical sort. "Anxious attachment" seems to be the Bolton idea of the optimal relationship for a child or underling. It's probably a family tradition to play sons off against each other. 

 

That said, Ramsay may suspect that he is in fact too crazy-pants to be his father's heir given any reasonable alternative. Even a sadistic borderline personality type person can have that much self knowledge.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Latverian Diplomat

[Helena Dax]

 

For me it isn't necessary to spend more time on the Northern lords who want the Starks back in power. Inclusions like Lyanna Mormont's letter are enough for me and I'm sure we'll get more details like this. As far as certain Northerners continued loyalty to the Starks, I can see how some people would blame the Starks for why they're dealing with certain things in the first place. Ned takes some of their men down to King's Landing never to return, Ned's in a position of power, he, his son, and his wife make some pretty public and glaring mistakes, and some of these mistakes help add to getting a lot of Northerners killed. The Karstarks lost their lord at the hands of a Stark. The Boltons have been running wild for years what with Roose letting us know that he's into the First Night thing and to me this suggests that Ned either knew and did nothing or had no idea what some of his lords and people where up to. As far as the Red Wedding, Robb broke a vow and then continued to put his trust in the guy he broke his word to and a bunch of Northern men ended up losing their lives. I can see why there would be some feelings of frustration wrt to the Starks leading the North yet the books would basically make it seem like the men who want to rescue Ned's little girl think the Starks were practically perfect in every way and I at least feel like there should have been a little resentment (resentment that they would ultimately overcome of course) or something to get across how frustrating it can sometimes be to have continued loyalty to a particular chosen family under these circumstances.

 

That's a way to see it, but  not the only  way to see it. I doubt most people in the North think Ned made a lot of mistakes in King's Landing; what  they probably think is that their lord was murdered by the Lannisters in order to hide that Cersei's children were Jaime's.  (In the  eyes of most people, treason and incest are way worse than being too innocent). They might think that Robb made a mistake when he married Talissa,  yes, but Walder Frey commited a worse crime. But the most important part is that in a feudal system you just don't judge your lords. You don't  give your loyalty  only to those who deserve it. In the Poem of the Cid, which is about a real life knight who lived in the 11th century, written around 1200, the king is very unfair to him several times, but the Cid is always loyal to him. He's presented as a model to all the Castillian knights for that loyalty. In this universe, we had ser Barristan/ser Jaime. From a modern pov, Jaime did  the right thing when he killed Aerys. In Westeros, Jaime is called the Kingslayer and no one thinks ser Barristan should have changed sides. I think GRRM is using that concept of loyalty so  I can believe most people in Westeros are still loyal to the Starks in spite of  their mistakes, especially when the  Boltons are rapist psychopaths.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Helena Dax

[Hanahope]

Good 'set up' episode, laying the ground work for future story lines.

 

I was curious as to why Sansa sortof smirked when Ramsay was obviously discomforted by Walda's pregnancy.  As far as she knows, Ramsay hasn't really done anything wrong, he wasn't at the Red Wedding and she has no knowledge of anything bad or sadistic he's done.  Well, except obviously 'broke' Theon, but she doesn't know exactly what he did in that respect either.  I suppose its all 'my family's enemies' in general.  I wonder if she's going to try and play up the jealousy bit with Ramsay, try to convince him that his position as heir is precarious and force him to cause havoc.

 

Myranda is definitely going to be the one that attempts to kill or otherwise maim Sansa.

 

Stannis is really getting a good edit here, which makes me think he's either going to come out on top at the end, or make a huge sacrifice for the greater good and be considered a hero.

 

That greyscale disease moves awfully fast if Jorah is already showing signs.  That whole scene was great, with Drogon flying by, both Jorah and Tyrion going wtf?, especially Tyrion, since he's never seen a dragon at all, and then the stonemen attack.

 

I think Jon is quite well aware of the bigger game involved with the WW, its the rest of  the NW that can't see the forest for the trees.  Jon said only half of the NW would disagree with him.  I think it was pretty much the entire NW.

 

Was unclear why we got Dorne in the opening credits, since nothing happened there, nor any of the characters from Dorne.  Same with Braavos.  You could theoretically still connect Tyrion with KL.

[Fen]

Fruthermore, Roose is a master of knife twisting too, even of the metaphorical sort. "Anxious attachment" seems to be the Bolton idea of the optimal relationship for a child or underling. It's probably a family tradition to play sons off against each other. 

 

He's the George Bluth of Westeros.

 

Is there any good reason why Jorah chose to sail through Valyria, knowing that it is crawling with infectious and very angry Stonemen

 

 

To me Dany looked like the Mad King, arranging a random execution and giving every survivor a reason to become a Harpy now that she might make them dragonfood on a whim, but since the showrunners didn't think Tywin was a bad guy who destabilized the realm for petty revenge I'm afraid the scene was meant to show Dany as a badass. Dany going to an imprisoned Hizdahr and saying he'll marry her, no reply required, is creepily similar to Sansa's forced marriages: I'm not sure if that's intentional and Dany is meant to be going downhill like in ADWD when she ordered a man's daughters tortured for information, or if it'll be justified later by Show Hizdahr turning out to be a Harpy so that it was alright to mistreat him, or if it's just plain not thinking about the implications.

 

I'm similarly worried that we are supposed to read this as Dany returning to her badassed earlier season self - as opposed to Dany adopting her father's 'roast first, ask questions later' policy.

[Latverian Diplomat]

Is there any good reason why Jorah chose to sail through Valyria, knowing that it is crawling with infectious and very angry Stonemen

 

He said it was to avoid pirates, who are afraid to go there.

[Funzlerks]

I thought the Missandei scene with Danerys was cheap and unearned writing. Danerys has definitely not listened to advisors except when she was right. She has listened to Daario sometimes after she herself being proven wrong, and he is a pirate/assassin not some grand political mind. If I thought there was context like "Missandei is still in her slave mindset and can't tell Danerys the truth" or "Missandei knows better than to make Danerys feel bad about her own poor decisions," then it would make sense. But the scene was there because the writers knew Danerys's actions were so apparently wrong but they didn't want the audience to lose respect for one of the most important characters.

Her marriage to Hizdahr is so, so stupid politically. His power comes from her only, she gains nothing from marrying him that she would not gain by actually using him as an advisor. And if she wants to realistically rule Westeros after using her convenient dragons to burn as many people who stand in her way as she can, than she will need to connect herself to the people in Westeros with power. As she has no family or heirs or Baratheon lieutenants, she needs to marry politically after conquering. Each marriage lessens that possibility.

But she could not care less about the situation in Westeros or what will happen to Slaver's Bay after she leaves. So she chooses to marry Hizdahr for extremely shortsighted ends. There is no long game with her at all.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Funzlerks

[Holmbo]

Well to be fair to the show they are following the book. In the book she marries Hizdahr and tries to make peace in Mereen and the way things have been going so far it seems like it will end with her pretty much burning it all to the ground and then leaving. In that case the show has to do the same.

I also don't understand all the "the writer wants us to think...". Think whatever you want. It's not spoon feeding. You can device whether or not you support sand snake vengeance scheme or Dany forcing Hizdahr to marry her.

[Avaleigh]

I also don't understand all the "the writer wants us to think...". Think whatever you want. It's not spoon feeding. You can device whether or not you support sand snake vengeance scheme or Dany forcing Hizdahr to marry her.

For me the 'writer's want us to think' comments typically come after they've made a comment on one of the Inside the Episodes or in an interview that makes me want to reevaluate my first impression. I still interpret things in my own way but when the showrunners specifically say that they were going for _________ I feel like they want us to get it and hopefully accept why they make these sorts of choices. When Septgate happened even though I think that Jaime raped Cersei, since the showrunners claim that they weren't going for that I feel like I have to force myself to accept how the showrunners want it to be seen because otherwise I'd be continually wondering why the characters involved are behaving as though a rape never happened. With the Sand Snakes I'm preparing myself for them to be written sympathetically even if their goal to torture and kill Myrcella comes across as monstrous to me.

 

When something is hotly contested I have to admit that I do appreciate it when showrunners give clarification on what they were initially going for because I think it can be helpful to discussions that become circular. 

[WearyTraveler]

So if Mel is riding off with Stannis, what is going to happen when Jon gets stabbed?  I know readers generally think in the book she is going to reanimate him, so in the show will he not be as badly injured and will recover on his own?

 

I'm hoping they do something with him similar to what they did with Dany and the hatching of the dragons: he rises from the dead because he's meant to do that without anyone's help.  I'm hoping that's the case in the books too and think there's some set-up for it.  In her chapters Melissandre intuits that Jon is important, but she can't quite see why.  It would be awesome if she sees Jon rise for himself, and then she'll realize that he's AA.  Mel going off with Stannis on the show gives me hope that this is how it's going to happen in the books.

 

We were told the plan last week:  (1)  Sit around waiting to be rescued and, if that doesn't work, (2) make Ramsay your own (somehow).

 

Well, we might have been told part of a plan, but not the whole plan. It took us four seasons to see that it was Lysa, manipulated by LF, who killed Jon Arryn.  We've also had many other plans on the show that were not revealed until after they were executed.  In the books too.  We are never told that Roose has a plan to kill Robb and take over the North, we are, in fact gently prodded to believing the Karstarks are the danger and then we're thoroughly blindsided by the events in the Red Wedding.

 

For all we know, Sansa and LF made a more detailed plan, but we just haven't been told about it.

[SeanC]

Well, we might have been told part of a plan, but not the whole plan. It took us four seasons to see that it was Lysa, manipulated by LF, who killed Jon Arryn.  We've also had many other plans on the show that were not revealed until after they were executed.  In the books too.  We are never told that Roose has a plan to kill Robb and take over the North, we are, in fact gently prodded to believing the Karstarks are the danger and then we're thoroughly blindsided by the events in the Red Wedding.

 

For all we know, Sansa and LF made a more detailed plan, but we just haven't been told about it.

There's been absolutely no offscreen information conveyed in this storyline.  Sansa observed Littlefinger's message in episode 1, and then asked him about it in episode 2, after traveling hundreds of miles together.  In episode 3, she realizes they're going North only when they come within sight of Moat Cailin, and Littlefinger provides no more information about his plans beyond "avenge them" until episode 4, when they're literally within the crypts of Winterfell.  The information he provides being "sit here and wait to be rescued".  Nothing indicates that he's meant to have said anything else offscreen, particularly as if Sansa were meant to be doing anything, like, say, trying to rally the smallfolk, she would obviously have started with that old lady, but their scene in this episode pretty clearly indicates Sansa hasn't made any attempts at sounding her out as an ally between episode 3 and episode 5.

Edited May 11, 2015 by SeanC

[Dev F]

I'm hoping they do something with him similar to what they did with Dany and the hatching of the dragons: he rises from the dead because he's meant to do that without anyone's help.

 

But that's not how prophecy usually works. The fact that someone is fated to happen doesn't eliminate the need for something to cause it to happen. The prophet just foresees that cause will lead to effect.

 

Even the hatching of the dragon eggs doesn't happens just because it's prophesied. Dany has to fulfill a very specific sequence of events, including offering up three lives for the lives of her unborn dragons, before they'll do their thing.