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S04.E22: Plea


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I guess Madeline Stowe has no personal integrity. Not only did she play Victoria long past the expiration date, but she also lied about her being dead. I hold out hope that maybe it's just someone who looks like her because I can believe this show will do anything.

 

That was a short cameo. I guess Charlotte really is done with the Graysons and she didn't really have a baby in secret.

 

I called David being super terminal last week.

 

And it took me until the credits, but that was EVC's father from Everwood playing her lawyer.

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I liked Charlotte's appearance.  She is so over with her mom's business.  I also liked seeing Margeux shoved into a wall, best part of the episode.  I guess David is going to be one of the graves in Two Graves next week.  Of course Victoria is alive and paling around with Courtney Love.  Bye Ben, they never really built your character up enough for me to care.

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I'm calling for Deaths of Courtney love Character, Victoria and David next week. Amanda "Dies" then runs off with Jack and Little Carl OR if that man lying in the hospital next week is Jack possibly a bigger bloodbath and he dies and Amanda ends her life as well. I want a Jemily HEA Show!! Please don't kill either of them. Oh a HEA for them and Nolan please? Margot and Louise can Fuck off

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(edited)

Well, kudos to all the people who didn't believe Victoria was dead.  I only believed it because the actress said so (Liar!).  I never thought it was in keeping with Victoria's character on the show.  She loved herself too much.  I'm glad Charlotte was at peace with it. 

 

RIP, Ben.  I did not see that coming.  Another death on Victoria's head (and Margaux).  I thought Margaux was going to have Louise killed.

 

The last episode should be interesting.  Looks like David is not going to make it. 

Edited by SierraMist
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Bye Ben, they never really built your character up enough for me to care.

 

Or any character at all, he was completely pointless.  As for the dumbass duo (Louise and Margeaux), they need to bite it in the last episode.

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I literally yelled, "That's her dad!" when I saw Tom Amandes with Em. My husband asked, "In real life?" I replied, "No, even better: on Everwood."

 

Suspected that either Ben or Louise would bite it this episode. Surprised that the Hamptons' only police officer bought it before the shockingingly clueless redhead. (Louise can't really be that blind when it comes to Victoria/Margeaux, who have done exactly ... nothing for her, especially when she's so tough on Nolan who only saved her from her mother's decades-long chokehold and helped her cover up her brother's death.)

 

I think it's probably a good thing this show is coming to an end -- I can't stop watching, but I can't keep rolling my eyes at the ridiculousness.

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Well done show....I assumed Victoria was dead......and well done to those who knew she wasn't.

I also wouldn't have pegged Margo as being the one to attack Victoria.....


And I guess Margo was counting on Louise finding the blood / broken door when refilling the wine glasses. The only question I had at the time was....why didn't they notice the blood / broken door when the glasses were first filled. I guess Margo filled 'em the first time and counted on Louise doing a refill to find the evidence.

Nice of the actress to put a little bow on Charlotte...was glad to see her level headed and done with the drama as opposed to the potential "i need to get revenge on my half sister for killing Mom"...


And still no mention of Victoria's son Patrick.....

I also thought Margo was gonna off Louise....


If only this show had this been at this level at the start of the season. I suppose they should have done the whole flashback / flashfoward thing this season. Start withe Grasyson manor explosion ..and go back  in time to show us what leads up to that.....

Like some other posters on here...I too am glad the show is being cancelled / sorry to see it go.....after next week I'll be freeeeeeeee...freeeeeeee....freeeeeeee......

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Death to the French chick, please.  I can't stand her.  I loved that she got framed for stealing, what a snot and I hope she peed her pants when Amanda was gonna sock club her

 

Louise is a a big dope. That preview has me worried.  They wouldn't kill off Nolan and/or Jack would they?  I could see them killing off Amanda, but not my Jack or Nolan.

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(edited)

Well, now that Victoria is alive, it would be only right if David would kill her before he dies.  Then I could still have my original theory of those two being the two graves.  Oh, and I think Louise should be the one to kill Margaux.  The only thing better would be for Margaux to spend the rest of her life in jail.  Then I want to see Amanda and Jack and Nolan go off into the sunset. 

Edited by SierraMist
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(Louise can't really be that blind when it comes to Victoria/Margeaux, who have done exactly ... nothing for her, especially when she's so tough on Nolan who only saved her from her mother's decades-long chokehold and helped her cover up her brother's death.)

 

I think it's probably a good thing this show is coming to an end -- I can't stop watching, but I can't keep rolling my eyes at the ridiculousness.

 

You underestimate the character stupidity in this series, she's a villain because she's contrived into one, the same with the others.

 

 

Death to the French chick, please.  I can't stand her.  I loved that she got framed for stealing, what a snot and I hope she peed her pants when Amanda was gonna sock club her

 

Louise is a a big dope. That preview has me worried.  They wouldn't kill off Nolan and/or Jack would they?  I could see them killing off Amanda, but not my Jack or Nolan.

 

And to think she thought she could go after Emily.  XD.

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Sneaky ploy, show. Well done.

This show was worthy of season 1. Charlotte rocked it. She finally divested herself of the Graysons and as she said she was much better off than she has been. Jessica Rabbit was back on drugs calling Victory her only benefactor than she saw the light only to be duped by Pepe Le Pew. Both Victoria and Pepe are out and out killers but they are able to justifying it to themselves because Amanda is the devil incarnated and breaths fire. I hate to say it but the Suffolk Cty Police Dept is as inept as the Genoa City Police Dept on Y&R. Ben finally realized too late that Amamda was right but now he is out of the picture along with finally doing some good detective work. I'm hoping next week we get a face off between Ben's killer and Amamda with Amamda shoving her samurai sword up her ass.

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Ben finally realized too late that Amamda was right but now he is out of the picture along with finally doing some good detective work.

 

 

Probably why he got offed because he was starting to get off the ridiculous Emily hate club that both Margeaux and Louise are a part of.

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Loved the Everwood reunion! Hope he's on again for the series finale next week.

Irritated that they flat-out lied about Victoria being dead, but I was initially stunned they'd have killed her off back before the series had been officially cancelled. (I'd seen rumblings about slight chances of a half final season.)

Good use of Charlotte - she's in a good place, she's over it, she was brief, and she had an awesome line about having already grieved for her mother the first time she died.

I can't quite care that Ben was killed, but why was he there by himself? He was following a legit lead brought to him at work - come with backup, dumbass.

I'm a sucker, so liked the obvious Emily and Jack.

Can't totally care about poor David's terminal cancer (pretty bad luck, after being wrongly imprisoned for 15 years or so...though it's actually not that unusual), but my spoiler-free thinking is that his probable dying makes it more likely that Amanda won't. Ditto for Jack (and obviously Nolan), hopefully... Either makes the ending quite a downer. Hopefully Victoria goes out with him/by him. I wouldn't at all mind Margeux going too, but I don't think she's important enough to be one of the graves, and she's at least less annoying than she was for the first 20 episodes or so of the season.

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Ha! I knew at this point TPTB wouldn't be above faking Victoria's death for the second time. I wish Madeleine Stowe hadn't lied, but that was probably a contractual obligation. But since the show is ending next week anyway, it would have been better if there had been an interview freeze until after the finale - what's a few more weeks? - and then the actors would be able to speak freely.

 

I did wonder why Victoria was hiding out at the dead woman's house. She could have gone pretty much anywhere else, and she knew that it was only a matter of time before the body/dental records switcheroo was discovered. And also, why meet up with Mason after the fact, especially in a place where they would be seen? And finally, why involve Margaux? Victoria knows enough shady characters to be able to pull the whole thing off by herself, and surely she could have gotten a limo elsewhere. I get that the show has to end, and TPTB don't want it to end with Victoria winning, but the Victoria we know is smarter than that.

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I TOLD YOU SHE WASN'T DEAD!!!!!!!! To everyone who said I was wrong I say HA!

Hahaha I am one of them. It's your good right!

Kudos to all the fans who thought this.

I enjoyed this episode!

Where to start...

Amanda - Since David will be dying for sure next week I think it's safe to say Amanda will survive. I am worried about Jack for next week tho.

Margaux - After her call to White Gold it's definite: Margaux cannot be redeemed. She ordered the kill for Ben (and presumably attempted murder on Nolan next week), Jack will be in the hospital after a run in on White Gold. All of that is on Margaux her hands. I hope she dies next week.

Victoria - The only thing that's bothering me is the damn bracelet she was wearing. You could see it when Grayson Manor explodes, but she was also wearing it walking away after faking her death. Sloppy. I hope we will see THE catfight of Amanda and Victoria after all.

Louise - Poor girl. All she wants is to be loved. She will redeem herself next week. I think she will save Nolan's life by sacrificing herself.

White Gold - She is so damn scary. The funny part is that its not even the acting.

I think a lot characters will bite the dust in the conclusion. David, Victoria, Louise and hopefully Margaux.

I already said it, but the title 'Two Graves' does not mean literally Two Graves for two characters. It means every character with revenge motives will have their 'two graves'. Amanda will pay a price for her revenge, Victoria will pay a price for her revenge, Margaux will pay a price for her revenge.

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(edited)

I KNEW Victoria was still alive after the explosion so I was surprised when Madeleine Stowe said in her interviews that Victoria was totally dead as a doornail. I hate when that happens. I don't care if she chose to lie or the studio made her lie. That is just fucked up. It's a good thing there is only one episode left because deliberately lying about stuff like that is ridiculous.

 

Ha, I love that after Nolan switched the signal on Amanda's ankle monitor, she just strolled out of the house in broad daylight without so much as a hat or a hoodie to hide her identity. When the trailer park neighbors first mentioned that Mason had a woman with him, I thought maybe it was Lydia. I thought it was hilarious that the trailer park guy mentioned the woman's skin because Victoria's is botoxed within an inch of its life.

 

I totally cracked up when Louise asked Ben if he recognized the black hoodie. You mean that very unique and recogizable hoodie that is distinguishable from all other black hoodies?

 

Totally hilarious that Jack got his police academy buddy to frame Margaux for shoplifting. I laughed and laughed when she got totally snotty. I mean, yes, she was innocent, but calling out the salesman's name, asking the guard if he knew how much money she has spent in that store, and then threatening to sic her lawyer on them was a total rich bitch reaction.

 

I found myself wondering what it must be like to think that one of my important errands before a friend's funeral is to go swing by the jewelry store to get a necklace with 122 diamonds. Seriously, what kind of tacky bitch would wear a necklace like that to a funeral? I was taught to be as understated as possible at a funeral, not to get blinged out.

 

Am I totally paranoid because when David had his seizure at the jail, I immediately wondered if Margaux or Victoria had paid a doctor to poison him during his treatments?

 

Damn, Ben. Courtney Love is not messing around. I hope that Louise isn't her next target.

 

I can't remember the last time an appearance by Charlotte didn't bug thet crap out of me, so hooray? I'm glad she finally sees Victoria for who she is but isn't letting herself get sucked into all of it. Rehab has been good for her.

 

I guess I'm supposed to be happy that Jack and Amanda are finally going to be together but ehhhhh.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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I finally kind of liked an episode!  I think part of that is knowing this show is coming to an end and we will finally have some conclusion in place, but I liked the discoveries that were made, the interactions of some of the characters, and that Ben actually followed through on Emily's suggestion.  I don't like that he died so much, but at least he did find out she was telling the truth.  I actually liked Charlotte this episode as well, as stated by others.  That was refreshing to see her realize her family was not worth her time or energy.  

 

I didn't really think Margaux was behind all of this so that was kind of a surprise.  I just hope Louise is faking about believing Margaux right now, as we don't really need to end the show with her continually falling for the wrong side.  

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Can't totally care about poor David's terminal cancer (pretty bad luck, after being wrongly imprisoned for 15 years or so...though it's actually not that unusual), but my spoiler-free thinking is that his probable dying makes it more likely that Amanda won't.

 

I still think he should've stayed dead, bringing him back only to kill him off just feels like a cheap waste of time.

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I didn't really think Margaux was behind all of this so that was kind of a surprise.  I just hope Louise is faking about believing Margaux right now, as we don't really need to end the show with her continually falling for the wrong side.  

Margaux is as bad as Victoria.  I don't know where she comes off so high and mighty.  And she was hilarious as the typical rich bitch.  Both Victoria and Margaux have to die next week, or I will not be satisfied with the ending.  

 

Poor Louise.  As Melvin said, she just wants to be loved and I think she is finally realizing she's been on the wrong side.  I hope she will be redeemed next week but I don't want her to die.  I wouldn't even mind if she makes up with Nolan (platonically) and she goes off with Nolan, Jack and Emily at the end.  She and Nolan were great besties until the show decided she needed to be super clueless about Victoria and Margaux.

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I already said it, but the title 'Two Graves' does not mean literally Two Graves for two characters. It means every character with revenge motives will have their 'two graves'. Amanda will pay a price for her revenge, Victoria will pay a price for her revenge, Margaux will pay a price for her revenge.

 

Oh I can think of at least 2 characters who need to end up there in the finale.  :).

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(edited)

I watched the promo for next week again and it really doesn't look good for Jack. They promised a bittersweet ending (not that I believe anything they say) but that would definitely be bittersweet.  And the show does love to do that.  Just when they were about to really get together, Jack will not make it.  Maybe it will be only Nolan and Emily left at the end. 

Edited by SierraMist
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I found myself wondering what it must be like to think that one of my important errands before a friend's funeral is to go swing by the jewelry store to get a necklace with 122 diamonds. Seriously, what kind of tacky bitch would wear a necklace like that to a funeral? I was taught to be as understated as possible at a funeral, not to get blinged out.

 

And I do believe that the saledouche mentioned that Margeaux wanted something "refined but understated," or some such hooey.I won't even wear diamond studs to a funeral, only polished stones enamel, or plain metal.

 

Louise is dumber than a box of hair. She knows how much Margeaux distrusts Nolan, yet she's all "Oh, when I saw the man you hate while he was trying to illegally enter a dead woman's hotel suite, he gave me information to indicate that we might be on the wrong track! I know you'll drop your vendetta and totally agree with him now!"

 

I never thought I'd watch an episode of this show in which I said "Wow. Charlotte is the most level headed, mature, and well adjusted person I've seen on screen tonight."

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I already said it, but the title 'Two Graves' does not mean literally Two Graves for two characters. It means every character with revenge motives will have their 'two graves'. Amanda will pay a price for her revenge, Victoria will pay a price for her revenge, Margaux will pay a price for her revenge.

 

Good lord I hope you're right!  There are sooooo many flippin' people on this show that don't deserve happy endings (to quote OUAT).  The only one I'm rooting for is Nolan; but I guess his bf Tony is out for good (?) so IDK....I hope he doesn't do something stupid like sacrifice himself for Em/Amanda.

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I don't care about showrunners or actors lying about their show; they shouldn't be answering those sort of questions anyway. I do care about how they frame shots that show me one thing and then tell me later it was a completely different thing. Lighter flicking on in person's hand is way different than set a fuse alight. That's what bothers me.

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I don't care about showrunners or actors lying about their show; they shouldn't be answering those sort of questions anyway. I do care about how they frame shots that show me one thing and then tell me later it was a completely different thing. Lighter flicking on in person's hand is way different than set a fuse alight. That's what bothers me.

 

I think they should've kept quiet and let the fans guess for themselves, but oh well, there's only 1 more episode left.

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In any other show (or back when this show was good) it would have delighted me to be so completely fooled about a major character death. On this show right now though it just seems like a sad attempt at trolling. Oh well, one more show!

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Well that was...it's been hours and I'm still not sure.

I think they should've kept quiet and let the fans guess for themselves, but oh well, there's only 1 more episode left.

Right?  Especially since it was all of a two weeks for the answer.

 

Oh Ben, you finally save up enough for that clue and someone stabs you.  Poor boy.

 

I don't even know how to feel about Louise at this point.  She's sort of tragic and sad... and I don't care.  Honestly, she's just too malleable and clueless and it's annoying.  I guess I don't really want her to dies mostly because it just seems like kicking a really boring puppy.

 

Margaux on the other hand should die painfully and in a way that exposes her for the pathetic, scheming, ludicrous, self-deluded asshole she is.

 

Hey Charlotte! Thanks for being tolerable! 

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(edited)

Margaux tells Jack "you hitched your wagon to a psychotic horse". Pot, meet kettle. Actually, Margeax IS the psychotic horse. I so wanted Amanda to shiv her in the jail, or she gets framed and is in there forever. She must die next week, along with Victoria. Could Louise BE any more of a dimwit???How does she even get dressed by herself in the morning?

Edited by Julie23
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(edited)

Margaux tells Jack "you hitched your wagon to a psychotic horse". Pot, meet kettle. Actually, Margeax IS the psychotic horse. I so wanted Amanda to shiv her in the jail, or she gets framed and is in there forever. She must die next week, along with Victoria. Could Louise BE any more of a dimwit???How does she even get dressed by herself in the morning?

Hah!  I totally forgot about that.  At that point, I didn't realize how deep Margaux was in so I just found it ironic.  At this point, I assume she's had a complete psychotic break and has convinced herself that she and Vicky are avenging angels.  

 

And yes, her take down needs to include serious jail time and, if possible, some public shaming.  

Edited by RachelKM
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In any other show (or back when this show was good) it would have delighted me to be so completely fooled about a major character death. On this show right now though it just seems like a sad attempt at trolling. Oh well, one more show!

 

Yeah, it was yet another annoying fake out, it would've been more amusing if they hadn't already abused that so many times already.

 

Margaux tells Jack "you hitched your wagon to a psychotic horse". Pot, meet kettle. Actually, Margeax IS the psychotic horse. I so wanted Amanda to shiv her in the jail, or she gets framed and is in there forever. She must die next week, along with Victoria. Could Louise BE any more of a dimwit???How does she even get dressed by herself in the morning?

 

These 2 are so insufferable in every single way, they're both complete failures at being villains and tryhard wannabes at trying to be Victoria.

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Oh, Revenge, I wish I had the strength to give up on you, but I only have to make it through two more crap episodes. Sigh...

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I TOLD YOU SHE WASN'T DEAD!!!!!!!! To everyone who said I was wrong I say HA!

 

I think that most of us would have suspected she was still alive if Stowe hadn't flat-out lied about her being dead! I hate that sort of thing.

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(edited)

Oh, Revenge, I wish I had the strength to give up on you, but I only have to make it through two more crap episodes. Sigh...

Just one! Thankfully.

 

Anyway. Mildly amusing episode. I knew Victoria wouldn't be dead (when an actor confirms it instead of saying to wait and see, you can generally assume it's not real), but it was still a little fun to watch it all get recounted.

 

It always cracks me up when Victoria makes that horrified face when someone else does something really deadly and brutal, as if this is not exactly what she signed up for.

Edited by gesundheit
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I don't care about showrunners or actors lying about their show; they shouldn't be answering those sort of questions anyway. I do care about how they frame shots that show me one thing and then tell me later it was a completely different thing. Lighter flicking on in person's hand is way different than set a fuse alight. That's what bothers me.

I think the out and out lying was pretty bad.  Showrunners are usually more vague about stuff like that.  But I totally agree that the real fake-out was what they showed on the screen.  What they showed didn't happen.  Not even close.  To me it's really the worst thing they've done in their 4 seasons.  Even David coming back wasn't so blatantly retconned with what we saw. . 

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I don't care about showrunners or actors lying about their show; they shouldn't be answering those sort of questions anyway. I do care about how they frame shots that show me one thing and then tell me later it was a completely different thing. Lighter flicking on in person's hand is way different than set a fuse alight. That's what bothers me.

 

I agree.  It's one thing if the scene was shot as a character's POV, which could easily have been manipulated.  But the camera shot was for the audience's eyes only, and if the show wasn't cancelled, could have lost a lot of good will with the fans.

 

I wonder if MS told them she wouldn't come back next season, so the plan was to truly kill her off.  Then possibly after getting the cancellation, they coerced her into returning for two episodes?

 

Margaux tells Jack "you hitched your wagon to a psychotic horse". Pot, meet kettle.

 

Hitching a wagon to anything is so Americana, I just can't see a sophisticated French woman using that term.

 

Margaux - After her call to White Gold it's definite: Margaux cannot be redeemed. She ordered the kill for Ben (and presumably attempted murder on Nolan next week), Jack will be in the hospital after a run in on White Gold. All of that is on Margaux her hands. I hope she dies next week.

 

Is that the character's name?  I must have missed that.  That scene wouldn't have been so over the top camp, if she hadn't made the stupid Jersey comment.  How would Margeaux know anyone in the mafia?

 

Regarding Margeaux:  At least it's now understandable why she "forgave" Louise.  It was an act.  But I'm still confused by Margeaux's motivation.  It's not Daniel's death, not her miscarriage, but shaming Victoria by speaking the truth?  Makes absolutely no sense.  And after doing nothing to Louise, even after she attempted to murder her, she now calls out hits on police officers?  What??

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My heart soared with joy when I saw Tom Amandes and Emily van Camp together again. Dr. Abbott and Amy!! Shoutout to all the Everwood people who know what I am talking about.

 

Okay, enough with the nice words. I can’t wait until this shitfest is over. I am beyond sick of everyone triumphing over Emily. I’d love it if Margaux died a painful death, but at this point I’ll just be glad it’s over.

 

And come on, of course Victoria is alive. #1 rule of TV: No body = no death.

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UGH!! I swear to God I don't know if I have it in me to sit through 1 more episode of this crap.  Poor dumb Louise. . .and why was she prancing around town in the middle of what is clearly a weekday in a sequined cocktail dress with feathers??

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(edited)

UGH!! I swear to God I don't know if I have it in me to sit through 1 more episode of this crap.  Poor dumb Louise. . .and why was she prancing around town in the middle of what is clearly a weekday in a sequined cocktail dress with feathers??

This was one of the only decision she's made in the last 4 episodes that I have found defensible.

Edited by RachelKM
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I found myself wondering what it must be like to think that one of my important errands before a friend's funeral is to go swing by the jewelry store to get a necklace with 122 diamonds. Seriously, what kind of tacky bitch would wear a necklace like that to a funeral? I was taught to be as understated as possible at a funeral, not to get blinged out.

 

Because Margaux knows that Victoria isn't dead and that the 'funeral' is all for show.  So, why not get all blinged out and fancied up, since there will be oodles of press there, especially with Emily/Amanda sitting in a jail cell, awaiting trial?

 

Meanwhile, I can't believe that the show finally gets decent with only one more left.  Way to go, show.

 

Color me disappointed.  So many hours, so wasted.

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I KNEW Victoria was still alive after the explosion so I was surprised when Madeleine Stowe said in her interviews that Victoria was totally dead as a doornail. I hate when that happens. I don't care if she chose to lie or the studio made her lie. That is just fucked up. It's a good thing there is only one episode left because deliberately lying about stuff like that is ridiculous.

 

Ha, I love that after Nolan switched the signal on Amanda's ankle monitor, she just strolled out of the house in broad daylight without so much as a hat or a hoodie to hide her identity. When the trailer park neighbors first mentioned that Mason had a woman with him, I thought maybe it was Lydia. I thought it was hilarious that the trailer park guy mentioned the woman's skin because Victoria's is botoxed within an inch of its life.

 

Damn, Ben. Courtney Love is not messing around. I hope that Louise isn't her next target.

The bad thing about Madeleine Stowe lying is that it poisons the well for every other actor. Her credibility is shot. It's like when HIMYM said every theory about the mother was wrong, then it turns out some of the early theories were right. Just admit you can't fool everyone and stop confusing lying with misdirection.

 

Nolan's total incompetence with ankle bracelets kind of put a spotlight on the fact Amanda was going to get caught. Maybe he should have cut the power from her device while it was offline?

 

Courtney Love is pretty terrible. It would have been so awesome if White Gold were played by Michelle Pfeiffer.

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