S06.E26: ZinePak, SnagaStool, Buck Mason, Noene USA

[yeswedo]

Collectible products for celebrity superfans; a mobile app for reserving a barstool on busy nights; a men's clothing line that's all made in America; a high-tech insole created by a former NFL player. Also: an update on Barbara's investment in Pork Barrel BBQ from season 1.

 

**Special 8pm time, at least for EDT.

[Lola16]

The barstool reserve app was a bit stupid but how different was it than the night club entrance app that Daymond invested in before that Pitbull promoted?

 

I liked Butch Mason or whatever the cowboy hipster clothing line was.  Price point is right around the norm.  Thought they were foolish to pass up the offer.

 

Never heard of that football player and I'm guessing no sharks did either.  Of course, I've never heard of 95% of football players so that's not telling.  Glad he took the offer.

 

I didn't really get the collectibles - had a hard time listening to them.

 

Surprised the update didn't have the one guy in a pig costume.  One of my favorite Barbara-isms.

[Jamoche]

So, what do they do if someone's sitting on that barstool when the reservation period starts?

[bilgistic]

That was hands-down the most boring episode I have ever seen.

[Shibori]

It was driving me nuts that the guy on the left during the men's clothing line pitch was wearing a shirt that didn't fit! It was pulling so badly from the neck, causing big creases coming down from the collar. If you're going to sell classic, perfectly made clothes, how about some that fit properly? I'm surprised Damon didn't comment on it.

[hoodooznoodooz]

After seeing "Waiting for Guffman," I can't hear the word stool without giggling. Stool Capital of the World. Snagastool.

Haven't they already shown us an update of the BBQ guys? And I think they even showed the guy wearing a pig costume.

Those collectibles. Just what we all need: more crap that ends up thrown out by whoever gets the job of emptying a house that has to be put on the market.

Edited April 25, 2015 by hoodooznoodooz

[bilgistic]

I didn't understand the ZineWhatever stuff. I was a late adopter of mp3 players (only about seven years ago when a friend gave me an old iPod), but after that, I never bought another physical CD. I ripped my CDs to my computer and then sold them. It's not like I kept the liner notes.

Snagastool instantly reminded me of the Squatty Potty, a.k.a., the Stool Stool.

Edited April 25, 2015 by bilgistic

[Latverian Diplomat]

So, what do they do if someone's sitting on that barstool when the reservation period starts?

Yeah, they really set up the bar to be the bad guy in enforcing those reservations at every stage of the process. Not a place a bar wants to be in. 

 

I would think those little reserved stands would "mysteriously disappear" in about 5 seconds in any crowded bar I've ever been in. Maybe they need the equivalent of Uber drivers to go two hours early, squat on the spot, and give it up to the right person. You wouldn't need to partner with the bars in that case. ("Seat savers" for any The Guild fans out there).

 

I didn't understand the ZineWhatever stuff. I was a late adopter of mp3 players (only about seven years ago when a friend gave me an old iPod), but after that, I never bought another physical CD. I ripped my CDs to my computer and then sold them. It's not like I kept the liner notes.

It's not for every album you'd ever buy, it's for your absolutely favorite album ever. And you might not be the type of person that wants extra stuff even for that, but I do think that type of person is out there, and they set the expectation appropriately for that in their pitch, I think ("super-fan"). Anybody that can partner with Walmart and make money at it deserves a little respect, I think, because Walmart are really hard to work with.

[Amarsir]

The barstool reserve app was a bit stupid but how different was it than the night club entrance app that Daymond invested in before that Pitbull promoted?

I would say markup, up-front pay, and variable pricing. At a club they charge just to have the table and get so much for it that they can afford to let it sit open just in case or lower prices as the night go on.  So the club lets you reserve in advance at a nice high price. If no one buys they can lower it later. If someone accepts and doesn't show up, you charge them anyway. So bookings are pure win.

 

For the stool it's like a table reservation, but on a product where people don't expect reservations. Unlike dining, bars can handle excess capacity via standing room and the price per drink is the same (although sitting customers may order more). So there's no advantage to leaving the stool open: most people would be offended at the idea of paying just for the seat, and you can easily fill it anyway.

 

Haven't they already shown us an update of the BBQ guys? And I think they even showed the guy wearing a pig costume.

Yes. But followups aren't really about information. They're about providing another advertising boost to help out the relevant shark(s). So this was Barbara's week and she felt the sauce needed help.

 

Which it might. $10m in sales over 5 years, including a retail store (which IIRC they had already started on before Barbara got involved). They're not doing terribly, but that's not amazing. And any given supermarket easily has over a dozen bbq brands on the shelf. So it sounds like they got a trial run at Sams Club and wanted to pump sales to inspire a reorder.

[readster]

I actually liked the clothing line but they were very stupid not to take that deal. Mark and Daymond really had a great deal there. Its funny my wife says that most of these guys should just come in and saying they want the Sharks to have a 20% or more stake in their companies because they rarely get an offer that isn't below 25%. Happy about the insert football player but that bar stool idea was not well thought out. I was with Kevin, its not that people won't pay for it or invest but they are no where in enough bars or have enough of thought out process with it. 

[starri]

I'm going to point to that stool reservation app the next time someone tells me we're not in a tech bubble.  That was almost as stupid as the service that tried (and landed with a thud) to convince people to pay a premium to have quarters (for laundry) shipped to them so they didn't have to go the bank.  Uber and AirBNB (although I am not a fan of the latter) at least offer something tangible that has a contract that can actually be enforced.  How exactly is a busy bartender supposed to police the stools in order make sure that only the person who reserved it is sitting there?

 

I liked Buck Mason.  The jeans and button-down shirts were a little pricey for me personally, but didn't seem out of line with other designer clothes.  And the Made in the USA angle was pretty appealing.  They were stupid not to take the deal, but I also don't automatically think that they were just chasing publicity.

 

Shoes:  don't know, don't care.  He ought to partner with the shoe guys from last week.

 

The collectable stuff:  I haven't bought a physical CD since I got my first iPod, except for a few very obscure artists who weren't on iTunes or Amazon's MP3 store.  And even then, it's only been to rip them.  Maybe it's just because I don't consider myself a "superfan" of most artists, but just like ebooks, I can't justify bringing more crap to clutter up my home when I can store a library's worth of music digitally.  And frankly, even with their deal with Walmart, I'm surprised that they got an investment, given that there's nothing preventing someone else (read: the actual record label) from duplicating the idea.

[marny]

The Snagastool idea is one of those things I picture a couple of guys saying to each other when they can't get a seat at their favorite bar: "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we could reserve a stool?" But it really isn't a viable concept, and I don't think the exposure on ST will give it any kind of boost. Sorry guys.

The Buck Mason stuff looked good-- I want to buy a shirt for my husband. If their site had free returns (it doesn't), I would order something. But until I'm sure of the fit, I'm too hesitant. However I did get the impression they were just on the show for the exposure. They were way too greedy about equity when their sales didn't justify it.

Edited April 25, 2015 by marny

[Primetimer]

The biggest shock of this Shark Tank isn't the one absorbed by these dime-thin insoles, but rather that three of the pitches were actually sorta good. But oh, that fourth...

Read the story

[nobodyyoucare]

After seeing "Waiting for Guffman," I can't hear the word stool without giggling. Stool Capital of the World. Snagastool.

Haven't they already shown us an update of the BBQ guys? And I think they even showed the guy wearing a pig costume.

Those collectibles. Just what we all need: more crap that ends up thrown out by whoever gets the job of emptying a house that has to be put on the market.

They have had several updates on it. This is just another to show them doing well. As for collectibles there is a market. A number of collectible offerings like that ten twenty years done the line can be worth hundreds to thousands or more. 

 

I would say markup, up-front pay, and variable pricing. At a club they charge just to have the table and get so much for it that they can afford to let it sit open just in case or lower prices as the night go on.  So the club lets you reserve in advance at a nice high price. If no one buys they can lower it later. If someone accepts and doesn't show up, you charge them anyway. So bookings are pure win.

 

For the stool it's like a table reservation, but on a product where people don't expect reservations. Unlike dining, bars can handle excess capacity via standing room and the price per drink is the same (although sitting customers may order more). So there's no advantage to leaving the stool open: most people would be offended at the idea of paying just for the seat, and you can easily fill it anyway.

 

Yes. But followups aren't really about information. They're about providing another advertising boost to help out the relevant shark(s). So this was Barbara's week and she felt the sauce needed help.

 

Which it might. $10m in sales over 5 years, including a retail store (which IIRC they had already started on before Barbara got involved). They're not doing terribly, but that's not amazing. And any given supermarket easily has over a dozen bbq brands on the shelf. So it sounds like they got a trial run at Sams Club and wanted to pump sales to inspire a reorder.

The bar stool app odds is more going to be used when paired with free drink etc offers in off hours so bars can get customers in. As for on season notice Keven mentioned he would pay to have seats reserved at a certain bar. You would have a bidding over these stool seats in these bars. Hence why Kevin was only interested in if they had already had those types of seats and that offer. So people like him wouldn't have to hire someone to camp out or have him do it himself for two or three hours before the game. 

I actually liked the clothing line but they were very stupid not to take that deal. Mark and Daymond really had a great deal there. Its funny my wife says that most of these guys should just come in and saying they want the Sharks to have a 20% or more stake in their companies because they rarely get an offer that isn't below 25%. Happy about the insert football player but that bar stool idea was not well thought out. I was with Kevin, its not that people won't pay for it or invest but they are no where in enough bars or have enough of thought out process with it. 

A lot of people don't comprehend that giving up 40% of a company that only makes a few hundred in sales and no profit and likely will never increase is actually a smart move. In exchange you can get to millions of sales each year and either hundreds of thousands or millions in profit and continue for a long time. Its better to have a small share of a large thing that makes you a lot of money for little effort rather then have a full amount of a small insignificant thing that makes you no money and takes up a large amount of time. Your getting a partner who has resources you would never be able to get hence they make you rich in exchange for giving up half or sometimes of your piddly squat company. 

[slowpoked]

And frankly, even with their deal with Walmart, I'm surprised that they got an investment, given that there's nothing preventing someone else (read: the actual record label) from duplicating the idea.

That's interesting, because the ladies said it's the artists who have approached them to make Zinepaks for their albums. How come these artists just don't go directly to their labels and say why don't we make a special pack for our fans? They name-dropped Brad Paisley a lot. How is it that Brad can't go directly to his Sony boss and say we could make this for Walmart? Brad's an important artist to Sony, he could get ears to listen.

I think it boils down to the fact that record labels just think anything other than regular CDs is just too expensive for them to make, and they don't want to give time and money, considering they probably have more artists to be bothered by than the Zinepak people. And record label heads do have the reputation of being hard assholes to work with. The ladies did say that the artists have full and exclusive say on the content they want on the Zinepaks. I imagine that's a huge selling point for artists that want more freedom than what their record labels give them.

[starri]

I think it boils down to the fact that record labels just think anything other than regular CDs is just too expensive for them to make, and they don't want to give time and money, considering they probably have more artists to be bothered by than the Zinepak people. And record label heads do have the reputation of being hard assholes to work with. The ladies did say that the artists have full and exclusive say on the content they want on the Zinepaks. I imagine that's a huge selling point for artists that want more freedom than what their record labels give them.

But most record labels are owned by companies who also own movie studios, and those are very adept at putting out special packaging of blu-rays and DVDs than include various levels of swag.  And they mentioned wanting to branch out to other things like video games, and most video game publishers already do that.

[nobodyyoucare]

But most record labels are owned by companies who also own movie studios, and those are very adept at putting out special packaging of blu-rays and DVDs than include various levels of swag.  And they mentioned wanting to branch out to other things like video games, and most video game publishers already do that.

The two did mention that cd heads didn't listen to them while artists did. However the zinepack was only for now in walmart which makes up the majority of cd sales. Dvds/blurays really don't have swag in them. The majority are just the dvd/bluray no other collectibles unless you pay 20 or 30 or often forty dollars more and usually you are lucky if it is anything actually good like say a figurine or a plush or an artbook. 

[cooksdelight]

The only thing that stood out for me in this episode was the BBQ guys' spice rub containers had at least an inch or more of empty space in the plastic container. I hate paying for dead air.

[atb]

The Buck Mason guys are selling $125 jeans without variable inseams. A 36" waist jean is 34" long, which is pretty long.

[LittleIggy]

Seats at the bar should be first come, first served. Reserving barstools is un-American! :-)

I agree that those clothes guys were dumb to turn down the offer.

[Eolivet]

I hope Grill 23 appreciated all that free advertising, though Kevin revealed exactly how much football he watches when he called it a "Pat game."

 

I thought Buck Mason was kind of a losing proposition: their prices were so high that the large swath of people who care about "Made in Murica" might be turned off by the price point, and the large swath of people who care about paying workers a living wage might be turned off by the "traditional Murican" clothes. Seemed like a very niche brand.

[nobodyyoucare]

Grill 23 doesn't need advertising. Its a pretty well known restaurant and bar. It has six private dining rooms one of which can host up to 140 people. As well as single servings of scotch anywhere from 17 dollars up to 100 dollars depending  upon vintage. Many people who are fans of the New England Patriots call themselves Pats Fans. Pat Patriot is the team mascot. 

[bilgistic]

I got rather tired of hearing the phrase "Grill 23". Kevin's such an asshat.

[LeGrandElephant]

While watching I said "let's never go to Grill 23"

[seacliffsal]

The snag a stool guys had an unworkable idea.  It would be left to the bar/bartender to protect those seats when the reality is they want sales.  Culturally, we expect reservations to be taken and honored at restaurants but not bars.  That would be a cultural change that isn't going to happen.  You won't let me sit on this empty stool to buy a drink?  Alright then, I'll go to the bar next door.  Also, a bartender who says no to someone taking a seat has just lost that person's tip.  No way.

 

Clothing guys should have taken the deal.   So many people leave without a deal and then state about all their hard work and leaving something for their children.  Well, 100% of not much is still 100% of not much.

[needschocolate]

Restaurant reserve tables.  Reserving a place to sit is not a new concept.  Bars do no take reservations.  If reserving a bar stool was a good idea, then bars would already be doing it.  Unlike so many others who come on the show with a solution for a problem that doesn't exist, these guys had a real problem to solve - people would love to be able to walk into a bar 15 minutes before the game starts and have a great seat.  The trouble was that they need bars to go along with their solution and I don't see why a bar would.    

 

I can imagine that the guys from Snag-a-Stool (sounds like what I do with a plastic bag when I take the dog for a walk) were in a bar, either standing or in a corner near the bathroom, far from the big screen, had had a few drinks, and had this conversation ---

 

A: This suuucks! How come we never get a good seat.  I can't even see the score from here!

B: 'Cuz you are always late and we get here 10 minutes before the game starts. 

A: I wish we could reserve a seat at the bar instead of getting here 2 hours before the game.

B: Hey that's a great idea! Let's make an app that will let people reserve stool.

A: Why would anyone reserve a stool? I make one or two a day by myself - hahaha

B: Dude, you should stop drinking - I was talking about a bar stool.

A: I was just joking...How would this app work?

B: People would be able to reserve a stool at their favorite bar.  The bartender would hang a little sign on the bar saying the seat is reserved. Then you don't have to get there early for the game.

A: Why would the bartender do that?- it is more work for him.

B: Because it would be a guaranteed customer.  

A: But bars are always packed for games, why would he bother leaving a seat empty when there are plenty of people there to fill it?

B: But they could take reservations during the non peak times - it would help them fill empty seats.

A: Why would someone make a reservation if there are empty seats?

B: We could offer incentive like half price appetizers.

A: Who pays for that?

B: The bar

A: Why doesn't the bar just put a sign out saying that they have half priced appetizers in the afternoons?

B: Because, um...

A: And how does being able to reserve a bar stool in the middle of the afternoon help me get a good seat for the game?

B: Well, uh, er.....

After a few hours a few more drinks ...

A: Shnag-a-Shtool! Let'sh go on Ssshhark Shank - eh - Shark Tankk! We'll be millionairesh!

[A Boston Gal]

While watching I said "let's never go to Grill 23"

It doesn't even make my top five "upscale" steak houses in Boston.  Kevin and his ilk are more than welcome to those bar stools.

[MoreCoffeePlease]

The Buck Mason clothes reminded me of The Gap, maybe 20 years ago, or more.  At that time you could go to The Gap and buy jeans and t-shirts, whoo hoo!  I never understood the appeal, since to me the items were overpriced and boring.  Does The Gap even exist anymore.  Must go research ...

Really liked the shoe insert guy.  Once he has a product that works for women's shoes, I'm all in.  I don't buy inserts today because they totally mess up the fit of the shoe. I guess he should be working directly with shoe manufacturers instead?  Or is he direct-to-consumer, aiming to compete with Dr. Scholl's?

 

I've always liked this show, but it is getting boring.  I think we've run out of entrepreneurs with good ideas.

[leighdear]

So to further beat a dead barstool horse, where does the "reserved sign" go?  Is it a little metal plate that hangs on a hook poking out from the bar, in front of the stool? Is it a sticker for the seat?  And is it actually a sign, or maybe a special color cushion cover that stretches over the seat so that people can tell in an instant that "hey, that's a RESERVED stool"?   

 

What happens if you get up to go to the bathroom or feed the meter and somebody removes your sign?  Or snags your stool, whips the cover off, flings it in the corner and then disavows all knowledge of your special stool?  

 

What if your barstools don't have cushions?  Maybe the stool itself is a special color or style?  How do you educate the public on the stool significance?  

[designing1]

 

The Buck Mason clothes reminded me of The Gap, maybe 20 years ago, or more.  At that time you could go to The Gap and buy jeans and t-shirts, whoo hoo!  I never understood the appeal, since to me the items were overpriced and boring.  Does The Gap even exist anymore.  Must go research ...

 

They reminded me of The Gap from decades back as well, which is why I liked them -- though not at those prices! Back in the day, The Gap carried well made basics (they were never really about fashion) that lasted FOREVER. Last time I was in one -- the one in the mall near me closed and took Banana Republic with it, leaving only Old Navy -- the clothes were Old Navy quality or worse (think tissue paper) at Gap prices. No thanks.

[marny]

The reason why the Buck Mason clothes are so much pricier is because they're made in the USA.  Good luck finding an article of clothing in the Gap that was made here-- that's why they're so much cheaper, and so much lesser in quality.  It's really difficult to find inexpensive and but well-made and quality clothing that is made here.  Frankly, I'd be willing to spend more if it means not buying clothes made in a sweat shop that will last longer than a season.

[Amarsir]

I got rather tired of hearing the phrase "Grill 23". Kevin's such an asshat.

I had to double check that they weren't filming the episode in Boston. The only way I could reason him mentioning it so much is if it was literally downstairs from their studio.

[Jamoche]

 Does The Gap even exist anymore.  Must go research ...

Oh yeah. Check out the latest Last Week Tonight.

[NikSac]

Oh yeah. Check out the latest Last Week Tonight.

 

The Gap is still pretty well known in my area. There's even an outlet store not far from me.

[nobodyyoucare]

I had to double check that they weren't filming the episode in Boston. The only way I could reason him mentioning it so much is if it was literally downstairs from their studio.

Its just his favorite bar to watch the Pats in when he is in the Boston area. Its been open for over 30 years. its also one of Bostons best rated steakhouses and bars. Hence having reserved bar stools that people bid on would be huge because there are people that would be willing to pay even thousands of dollars to reserve such a bar stool for a game. 

[Guest]

The fourth time he said Grill 23, I fast-forwarded the rest of the segment.  The product sucked anyway.

 

I'm not sure why people think American made = high quality.  Factories here are typically staffed by high school dropouts making $23/hour union scale.  There are many reasons we're not a manufacturing economy anymore.  I mean, if the most local is the best, we should all make our own clothes.  That'd be funny.  

 

I get ZinePak but I have a teen.  She buys vinyl albums and concert tix and saves ticket stubs.  Certain demographics still want something physical to show the world they're fans.  No one sees others' itunes buys, or even hears them anymore.  

 

I didn't get the insoles.  I don't have a problem bouncing off my current ones?  Sometimes I wish they spent more time on the pitches and less on the sharks.

 

I'm reading The Wolf of Wall Street.  One of his get-rich methods was very much like this.  Find companies so small and desperate for cash and a leg up you took an exorbitant share.  

[Amarsir]

I'm not sure why people think American made = high quality.  Factories here are typically staffed by high school dropouts making $23/hour union scale.  There are many reasons we're not a manufacturing economy anymore.  I mean, if the most local is the best, we should all make our own clothes.  That'd be funny.  

I for one am sick of outsourcing down the street. All my stuff is Made For 327 Elm Street Apartment 14B, BY 327 Elm Street Apartment 14B!

Seriously though, while you have a good point I think the virtue of "Made In America" is that you can observe any part of the process at any time. When you outsource overseas they can cut corners at any time and sending back an order is not only a huge hassle it will put you months behind schedule. And China has gotten a reputation for dishonest business practices. Maybe that's unfair and they can turn it around. But for now it's a negative.

Kevin for one has certainly argued that if a product needs better margins you shouldn't rule out going overseas to a quality vendor. But even he hasn't beaten that drum in a season or 2.