S04.E20: You Don't Know Jack

[jhlipton]

CC is a better actress than BT, can also do comedy and has always had more chemistry with Nick than Juliette.

I've said right from the get-go that CC should have been cast as Nick's girlfriend. Then once Bitsie-the-Hexenbiest has her powers removed in Season 1, she's off the show. No Royals, no pregnancies. YAY!

For me, one of the most interesting tricks on the whole show was Henrietta's address magically scrambling around on any piece of paper, anytime. Odd that a woman with that level of self-preservation power let someone stroll right in and slash her jugular. Henrietta was all set up as a strong ongoing magical character with lots of fun potential and they reduced her to "third Ripper victim," after hooker and hooker's roommate. Stupid.

Hooker 1 and Hooker 2. The death of two "corner girls" is going to bring out the Mayor and mobilize the entire PD. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

I wondered about the ease of dispatching Henrietta too.  She turns into her Hexenbiest self and then stands there so her throat can be slashed.  Clearly she felt threatened but she doesn't seem to use any of her powers.  Strange.

When Henrietta let Sean in, I thought "Why didn't they have her convince Juliette to take the potion. That might have worked (oh, now I see why...) Killing hr off just seems so dumb!

[Dobian]

CC is a better actress than BT, can also do comedy and has always had more chemistry with Nick than Juliette.

 

Yep, you can see the chemistry between Adalind and Nick that was never there with him and Juliette.  From Day One the Nick/Juliette relationship has just been a wet dish rag, and I never honestly believed that marriage was in the cards for them on this show.  It looked like that was going to change when she started supporting his grimmness, but was just a brief shining moment in an otherwise dull partnership.  It's funny that they date in RL, I wonder why whatever spark they have doesn't translate into the show.

[Prevailing Wind]

But didn't Adalind say the dead hexen can't be "fresh" ?  That would rule out Henrietta.  Oh, you KNOW it's gonna be Trubel that (probably inadvertently) "cures" Juliette.

[TiffanyNichelle]

As someone who has actually liked Juliette I'm disgusted by her story arc this season. I hate that they have set her up as beyond redemption and is now a character that is marked for death. And when I contrast that against Adalind, a character I've hated since season one, who's basically getting a redemption arc based on how many kids she can have. Hell they even had her announce she was "good" after taking the suppression potion.

 

Like on Once Upon A Time I'm over villains getting to go back and forth from good and bad but the second a good character steps out of line, it's time to die.

[caseylane]

I think the difference is that Bitsie just isn't believable in the role. They've amped up her presence but it isn't met with glee but with dread. Bitsie was fine in season 1 when her role was small and used as the supportive girlfriend. Once they started making it more, even far enough back when she first found out about Grimms, the cracks in her talent started to show.

 

Claire Coffee's character isn't any more filled out or interesting but she's selling the hell out of it and so a lot of us like her on the show, even if her character is disliked.

[Prevailing Wind]

Did Ms. Tulloch not know she was signing on to be the supportive not-wife?  Why does she think a relatively minor character deserves an evolution to become a "bad-ass" at the expense of not only other characters, but the entire tenor of the show?  Who the hell is she sleeping with to get this kind of indulgence? (Isn't that the way Hollywood works?)  ;-)

[catrox14]

As someone who has actually liked Juliette I'm disgusted by her story arc this season. I hate that they have set her up as beyond redemption and is now a character that is marked for death. And when I contrast that against Adalind, a character I've hated since season one, who's basically getting a redemption arc based on how many kids she can have. Hell they even had her announce she was "good" after taking the suppression potion.

 

Like on Once Upon A Time I'm over villains getting to go back and forth from good and bad but the second a good character steps out of line, it's time to die.

 

I took that to mean she was "good" as in not harmed from the potion and we don't know how not Hexenbeisty she really is. My spec is that the potion only sent her into a brief remission. IMO she is still a loathsome character who might do one good thing but that isn't a redemption necessarily. 

 

I am getting a bit of Darla staking herself before she gives birth to the GrimmHexBaby vibe from this whole thing with Adalind. I can almost hear Adalind say "This is the one good thing we ever did" or a variation there of.  This is the crew that came out of Angel after all :).

Edited May 3, 2015 by catrox14

[TiffanyNichelle]

I'm also bothered by the theory that great acting trumps everything despite the effect it has on a show. Great acting by actors portraying fun villains is how shows like Heroes, OUaT, and Buffy twist themselves up in knots to keep characters like Sylar, Regina, Rumple, and Spike viable on a show long pass their expiration dates.

[icewolf]

Did Ms. Tulloch not know she was signing on to be the supportive not-wife? Why does she think a relatively minor character deserves an evolution to become a "bad-ass" at the expense of not only other characters, but the entire tenor of the show? Who the hell is she sleeping with to get this kind of indulgence? (Isn't that the way Hollywood works?) ;-)

Bitsie Tulloch has been dating David Giuntoli for a while now. Not sure if there is anything else going on behind the scenes...

http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/grimm_bitsie_tulloch_david_giuntoli_dating_portland-2014-12

But romances often happen on shows between actors like they did on Once Upon a Time and The Vampire Diaries. Things happen when you spend so many long hours with your coworkers.

[Free]

I think the difference is that Bitsie just isn't believable in the role. They've amped up her presence but it isn't met with glee but with dread. Bitsie was fine in season 1 when her role was small and used as the supportive girlfriend. Once they started making it more, even far enough back when she first found out about Grimms, the cracks in her talent started to show.

 

Claire Coffee's character isn't any more filled out or interesting but she's selling the hell out of it and so a lot of us like her on the show, even if her character is disliked.

 

Exactly, the writing and the execution is also important and unfortunately for this show, it's been lacking.

[merylinkid]

 

"There's something like 511 Grimm legends and 212 fairy tales. We could conceivably be doing this until we're all in wheelchairs and using canes and hobbling around," Tulloch says. "There's just so much to do and what I've always said is the format of a fairy tale in and of itself -- and I think this is why it does so well internationally -- it's not one of those shows that's lost in translation."

 

From the Zap2it article.   Then why the hell aren't they doing all these stories instead of Juliette turns into a hexenbeist and tries to destroy her friends?   Pretty sure I missed that Grimm fairy tale.

[formerlyfreedom]

Getting a lot of drift in here off discussion of the episode. Let's get back to that, and take discussion of other issues in the proper topic. Further discussion of Juliette goes in her topic; articles and such go in the Media topic; discussion of how much you feel things have veered seems to fit best in the Writers topic; @SilverStormm and I may be renaming that topic in the coming days, to cover more issues then strictly the writing.

 

So basically, if you want to talk about the latest episode, this is your spot. If not, please find the right spot, so we can keep to the topic in here. Thanks!

[Notwisconsin]

With what's going on, I don't think there's going to be a fifth season. That's just my opinion.

[catrox14]

I thought they had already been renewed.

[formerlyfreedom]

It was - they announced it back in February.

[ottilie]

My favorite plot element was evil prince Kenneth reviewing the neighbors in the houses near to Nick and Juliette, and he chooses the renters as the house he will probably take over in the next episode

  It sort of reminds me of some obnoxious neighbors of mine in another city. They decided they controlled the block and that the  houses with renters were not allowed to park along the street, among other acts of disrespect.

Edited May 4, 2015 by ottilie

[TVSpectator]

My favorite plot element was evil prince Kenneth reviewing the neighbors in the houses near to Nick and Juliette, and he chooses the renters as the ones with a house to easily take over.

  It sort of reminds me of some obnoxious neighbors of mine in another city, where they decided they owned the street and that the three houses with renters were not allowed to ever park along the street, and she didn't want my renter neighbor to sit on the porch with his granddaughter because she was a homeowner so she could give random orders to lower status people.

 

I hope that the renters kick some serious Royal ass (especially one that is name Kenneth). 

[shapeshifter]

I hope that the renters kick some serious Royal ass (especially one that is name Kenneth).

Go renters! (I'm respectable, employed, grandmother-aged, and I've never owned a home.)

[former vampire]

How many episodes are left this season?

 

I know this will probably end on a cliffhanger like Monroe & Rosalee's wedding did last season. Still, I'm trying to figure out how all the loose ends fit here. We've got:

 

• Juliette as a hexenbiest working with the Royals & forcing Nick to aim a gun at Monroe's head
• Mama Grimm coming to town because of the email Juliette sent her
• Trubel coming to town because Rosalee called her
• the Royals bringing an arsenal to the house of the renting neighbors in an attempt to kill Kelly/kidnap Diana
• Renard/Jack the Ripper killing & mutilating Wesen women
• Adalind, pregnant & without hexenbiest powers, staying at Bud's house

 

Did I miss any? I'm purposely leaving out the special keys that were forgotten or ignored this season.

 

Somehow I see most of this occurring as a showdown in & around Nick & Juliette's house. With all the stories & players converging, they might as well have the entire cast there. The main gang is there for sure. Kelly brings Diana. Trubel can bring Josh even though he has no powers or special training. Bud & Adalind will show up there because they've never made particularly wise decisions up until now. Renard will make an appearance as Jack.

 

We can even bring in the bodies of Adalind's mom & Henrietta to make the cast complete. No, wait...more Royals can arrive in Portland to see how the kidnapping is going! Oh, and maybe we can have the Wesen Council send in another assassin to the house just then, since we don't have enough storylines going on at once!

 

I enjoy many of the characters, & like the WotW cases, but this has gotten way too much like a soap opera for my tastes. If they don't end several storylines, I might not watch this show much longer.

 

 

[Free]

From the Zap2it article.   Then why the hell aren't they doing all these stories instead of Juliette turns into a hexenbeist and tries to destroy her friends?   Pretty sure I missed that Grimm fairy tale.

 

Exactly, it's called Grimm for goodness sake, so that's what the show should be about instead of this nonsense.

[TVSpectator]

Go renters! (I'm respectable, employed, grandmother-aged, and I've never owned a home.)

 

I wonder if Kenneth realized that Americans are allowed to keep guns in their homes, even renters

 

former vampire:

Yeah, we should just throw Wu, Hank, Mama Renard, and Pilar into that mix. Maybe there will be a  fire and Juliette, and the Royals will all go up in smoke. Then we can cut to Mama Grimm telling Nick and everyone else what the keys are and also the Royals. 

Edited May 4, 2015 by TVSpectator

[Free]

And they appear to be killing off the interesting people, like the wasted Henrietta, while keeping Juliette. And now they're going to kill off someone else I like, while Juliette goes on more of a rampage trying to kill a pregnant woman and destroying Nick's life for...the powers she's elated to have. That's like, "I blame you for...giving me everything I wanted for my birthday, so now I'm going to burn down the house!"

 

Exactly, and that's why she doesn't work as a good villain imo and this is also why she should not be redeemed.

[Prevailing Wind]

 

Oh, and maybe we can have the Wesen Council send in another assassin to the house just then, since we don't have enough storylines going on at once!

Don't forget Agent Sanchez trying to get Rubel to join her clandestine group.

 

Y'know, that whole bit took some time to write, set up & film for it to go completely nowhere.  WTF?  Do they have an unlimited budget to throw nonsense at us?

Edited May 4, 2015 by Prevailing Wind

[franopy]

Wow. That was awful. I just hope that the shot we heard at the end was actually Rosalee shooting and injuring Juliette, thus interrupting her and forcing her to flee. In my head she would shoot Juliette's head right off with the Ogre Gun, but sadly that's never going to happen before the big showdown. There is no way that the woman who almost lost her husband because of some Wesen bigots would simply watch on in horror as a deranged Hexenbiest tries to kill her husband by Grimm. No way.

After watching the episode I also realised that the writers have committed a cardinal sin. No matter how mind-blowing their resolution of this mess will be (which it won't), I simply don't care to see any of it because I stopped caring about every single story line. And I am usually a very patient viewer, but they managed to break me.

Edited May 4, 2015 by franopy

[Actionmage]

Hooker 1 and Hooker 2. The death of two "corner girls" is going to bring out the Mayor and mobilize the entire PD. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

It wasn't because they were hookers that earned a press conference. It was the fact that someone was killing in the style of Jack the Ripper. Who wants that going on in your city, no matter where or when?  The mayor held a press conference, after the second dead hooker in as many days, because there would be inaccurate and potentially more lurid reports of what actually happened if he didn't.

 

Plus, it was another excuse to show Renard bleeding from his wounds again and showing everything off. As well as being uncharacteristically weird while speaking to the press. The mayor's reaction to agitated Renard edging in to talk over the mayor was great!  

 

As someone who has actually liked Juliette I'm disgusted by her story arc this season. I hate that they have set her up as beyond redemption and is now a character that is marked for death. And when I contrast that against Adalind, a character I've hated since season one, who's basically getting a redemption arc based on how many kids she can have. Hell they even had her announce she was "good" after taking the suppression potion.

 

IA with a bit of what you posted, but.  I don't see Juliette as beyond redemption just yet. Unless she has in fact killed someone and stands there muahaha-ing about it, there is nothing Juliette can't come back from. Will it be easy? Oh hell no, but it shouldn't be impossible either.  As for Adalind, I don't honestly think they are redeeming her. She may be moving from black hat to gray, but Adalind has done very bad acts that prove she is not a person to trust. Not with magic, not with power of any sort. 

 

As to Adalind's "I'm good" comment, I am sure it was just the common everyday usage, not a statement of ethical change.  "How do you feel?" "I'm good" is just what people say.  If TIIC are actually trying to redeem Adalind, it hasn't worked because no one is certain if she is or isn't on that path. The writing has let the story down, as if that's a surprise by now. If Adalind is "just" being "softened" into a more gray character, again, the writing hasn't let us know that is the intent behind the story. 

[Free]

IA with a bit of what you posted, but.  I don't see Juliette as beyond redemption just yet. Unless she has in fact killed someone and stands there muahaha-ing about it, there is nothing Juliette can't come back from. Will it be easy? Oh hell no, but it shouldn't be impossible either.

 

That's the problem, the predictable route of them dragging out a long redemption after an already frustrating storyline and destroying the trailer to facilitate more of this pointless drama.

[Prevailing Wind]

Lemme guess..."TIIC" means The Idiots In Charge?

[OakGoblinFly]

I just can't anymore - I don't even know if I want to stick out the last two episodes for this season, I know I won't be back unless there are some major changes next season.

 

I can't believe how much of the plot is driven by character stupidity.  So much stupid to go around, I don't even know where to begin - I feel like I lost a ton of IQ points watching the stupidity.   

 

Adalind knows of a potion that might suppress a hexenbeist's powers; so why doesn't Henrietta know about this potion?  Isn't she supposed to be a very old, very knowledgeable hexenbeist? 

 

Monroe and Rosalee just now think to call Theresa?  Didn't they think Nick was losing it earlier?  They had to wait until after Juliette throws in with the Royals, threatens Adalind, and torches the trailer before the realize there is Grimm but a phone call away?

 

While I get why Nick didn't change the locks (really, he should have after that jailhouse conversation with Juliette) but why o why do you leave your computer on without password protection.  My home computer and tablet are password protected.  Also, why are you sending your mother emails via an unsecured internet connection?  Once can easily procure encryption software - if you didn't want to do that, why are you sending emails without use of some sort of cipher?  

 

Kelly, I cannot believe that you, who have managed to stay on the lam for 30 plus years would rush to Portland because Juliette sent an -non-encrypted email over an open server connection.  I would think you would have a set of eyes and ears in Portland watching your son AND the Royals.  

And worse, based on the trailer it looks like you stupidly not only respond to Juliette's email, you bring Diana with you.

When did you lose brain cells?

 

I cannot stand Juliette - and not in the it's "fun to hate her" way I don't like Adalind - there's nothing about the Juliette I like.  I cringed at most of her scenes;  between the character assassination, bad writing, and horrid acting it was painful to watch.   Hey writers, having Juliette call Adalind a whore and/or bitch does not make her tough, a bad ass, or evil; it makes her whiny, petulant, and ineffectual.  Frankly, I find it offensive (and I'm no prude) to hear a character (any character) use these types of words to dismiss a female character.  I don't mind an occasional "It's on bitch!" - but when ever other word out of Juliette's mouth is "bitch" or "whore" I have a problem.

 

I know Bitsie wanted a beefier role, but you'd think the powers-that-be would have checked to see if their so-called leading lady had the acting chops to carry off this change (here's a hint, she doesn't).  Was she supposed to be angry or annoyed in the Spice Shop?  Was she being arrogant or condescending?  I don't even know what I was supposed to feel when she was part of the Royal Swat team planning the invasion - I've seen vapid looks on actors before, never quite like this. And it really is a shame because I thought Bitsie was perfectly fine when she was playing supportive, voice of reason, helpful girlfriend ... she cannot handle anything more complex.

 

The only thing I did like this episode was Clarie Coffee - I thought she handled the material quite well and I really liked her rather passive-aggressive speech at her mother's graveside.  I thought she and Rosalee made an enjoyable team during the potion making sequences (both actresses played up the dislike the characters have for each other, the weirdness of the situation, and just enough subtle humor).  

 

Renard's story line might be interesting - I don't know because it's been going on too long and we get so little of it it is often lost in the Days of Juliette's Drama.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OakGoblinFly]

Adalind is not Spike!!! There's no redemption there.

Adalind goes to/with anyone that can benefit her the most. If it happens that someone comes along that can help her more than Nick & co., she'll kill Nick, Monroe, Rosalee, or/and Wu if she had to.

 

 

But Adalind has always been about self-preservation, that's not a new characteristic for her - it's something that I like about her character (and Claire Coffee pulls it off well).  The only time I actively disliked the character is when she was in  the magic dungeon of weeping walls - that failure was the writing staff, not the actress (whom I generally find quite good in this role).

[OakGoblinFly]

Juliette deleted both her email to Kelly and Kelly's reply.

 

You can easily retrieve deleted emails ..... if Nick thought someone (Juliette) was messing with his computer, the smart thing would have been to run a diagnostic to see what programs were recently opened (time stamped and all) and then he would have know that Juliette used email.

 

But then again, Nick is no longer smart.   :(

[Nutjob]

 

I cannot stand Juliette - and not in the it's "fun to hate her" way I don't like Adalind - there's nothing about the Juliette I like.  I cringed at most of her scenes;  between the character assassination, bad writing, and horrid acting it was painful to watch.   Hey writers, having Juliette call Adalind a whore and/or bitch does not make her tough, a bad ass, or evil; it makes her whiny, petulant, and ineffectual.  Frankly, I find it offensive (and I'm no prude) to hear a character (any character) use these types of words to dismiss a female character.  I don't mind an occasional "It's on bitch!" - but when ever other word out of Juliette's mouth is "bitch" or "whore" I have a problem.

This. Exactly this. And now that Juliette has gone full-on Dark!Willow!, what happens when they (and you know they will) try and redeem her character? Will they just forget this all happened? If they have the guts to keep her as a villain FOR GOOD, I might change my mind about this whole storyline. Otherwise, Juliette's arc has, IMO, been very poorly botched.

[Free]

This. Exactly this. And now that Juliette has gone full-on Dark!Willow!, what happens when they (and you know they will) try and redeem her character? Will they just forget this all happened? If they have the guts to keep her as a villain FOR GOOD, I might change my mind about this whole storyline. Otherwise, Juliette's arc has, IMO, been very poorly botched.

 

Even Willow's arc was more interesting by comparison where she actually lost someone she loved, Juliette's character can't handle the abrupt change into villainy.  Juliette became this way out of an accident that she was willingly a part of until things went wrong and decided to blame and whine everyone else about it and then turned evil and blindly trusted a stranger and went along with their evil plans.

[ShadowFacts]

 

IA with a bit of what you posted, but.  I don't see Juliette as beyond redemption just yet. Unless she has in fact killed someone and stands there muahaha-ing about it, there is nothing Juliette can't come back from. Will it be easy? Oh hell no, but it shouldn't be impossible either.

 

For me, what she just did in this episode with plotting the apparent demise of Kelly makes Juliette's redemption impossible.  Unless she takes a bullet for her or some such thing.  But even if Kelly doesn't die, Juliette sent the email that lures her back and plots with the royals, and that conspiracy to murder your former fiance's mother is a bridge too far.  Kelly has done nothing to Juliette, in fact I thought it was poignant that Nick was flashing back to his mother telling him not to give up Juliette, that she had regrets about what she personally gave up. Nick would have to be a saint to ever forgive Juliette for attempting to harm Kelly.

[Free]

For me, what she just did in this episode with plotting the apparent demise of Kelly makes Juliette's redemption impossible.  Unless she takes a bullet for her or some such thing.  But even if Kelly doesn't die, Juliette sent the email that lures her back and plots with the royals, and that conspiracy to murder your former fiance's mother is a bridge too far.  Kelly has done nothing to Juliette, in fact I thought it was poignant that Nick was flashing back to his mother telling him not to give up Juliette, that she had regrets about what she personally gave up. Nick would have to be a saint to ever forgive Juliette for attempting to harm Kelly.

 

Even a saint would be a stretch after he's been walked all over by Juliette.  Basically the writers took her character too far with this storyline, no amount of retconning or dragging out a redemption would help, it would only drag her character down even further than it already has.

[33kaitykaity]

I'll never be able to quit the show completely just because I live in Portland, but I'm still all balled up with rage for what was done to the Grimmebago.  I don't care that they were able to salvage something.  And that last scene with the gun and the hexenbeist and Monroe, all I could think was wow, DG can't really act, can he?  

 

Reboot, reset, Trubel, at this point I really don't care.  

[iMonrey]

What was really lame was they went to so much trouble to establish what a bad-ass Henrietta was - you couldn't even keep her address written on a piece of paper she was so powerful! - then someone just walks right up to her and slashes her throat. Geez, Henrietta, you saw him coming, you couldn't prevent that? Weak sauce.

[theatremouse]

So is Adalind not a Wesen anymore? Can she go back to being one? Or are the effects just temporary?

I'm not at all suspicious of Adalind's motivations in taking the potion. I got the impression all along it was known/expected to be something temporary. So she was willing to take some herself to prove to the rest it a) did what she said it would and b) wouldn't make the taker die/get worse/turn invisible/explode etc. Sign of good faith, even if she may otherwise be up to something. If they were (until the very last scene) assuming Juliette wanted such a cure, then it'd just be a matter of her basically being sort of...medicated...for her condition...to keep the suppression going long term. Why would Adalind? Because right now J wants to kill her so if temporarily "numbing" herself in order to be given the chance to "numb" J, and thus remove if not the desire to murder her, at least dampen the means (ie J's powers) then that's still very much a self-preservation move on her part.

[Free]

What was really lame was they went to so much trouble to establish what a bad-ass Henrietta was - you couldn't even keep her address written on a piece of paper she was so powerful! - then someone just walks right up to her and slashes her throat. Geez, Henrietta, you saw him coming, you couldn't prevent that? Weak sauce.

 

Exactly, what a complete waste of a character and the character herself doesn't even get to go down in a blaze of glory.

[OtterMommy]

I just can't anymore - I don't even know if I want to stick out the last two episodes for this season, I know I won't be back unless there are some major changes next season.

 

I can't believe how much of the plot is driven by character stupidity.  So much stupid to go around, I don't even know where to begin - I feel like I lost a ton of IQ points watching the stupidity.   

 

Adalind knows of a potion that might suppress a hexenbeist's powers; so why doesn't Henrietta know about this potion?  Isn't she supposed to be a very old, very knowledgeable hexenbeist? 

 

Monroe and Rosalee just now think to call Theresa?  Didn't they think Nick was losing it earlier?  They had to wait until after Juliette throws in with the Royals, threatens Adalind, and torches the trailer before the realize there is Grimm but a phone call away?

 

While I get why Nick didn't change the locks (really, he should have after that jailhouse conversation with Juliette) but why o why do you leave your computer on without password protection.  My home computer and tablet are password protected.  Also, why are you sending your mother emails via an unsecured internet connection?  Once can easily procure encryption software - if you didn't want to do that, why are you sending emails without use of some sort of cipher?  

 

Kelly, I cannot believe that you, who have managed to stay on the lam for 30 plus years would rush to Portland because Juliette sent an -non-encrypted email over an open server connection.  I would think you would have a set of eyes and ears in Portland watching your son AND the Royals.  

And worse, based on the trailer it looks like you stupidly not only respond to Juliette's email, you bring Diana with you.

When did you lose brain cells?

 

I cannot stand Juliette - and not in the it's "fun to hate her" way I don't like Adalind - there's nothing about the Juliette I like.  I cringed at most of her scenes;  between the character assassination, bad writing, and horrid acting it was painful to watch.   Hey writers, having Juliette call Adalind a whore and/or bitch does not make her tough, a bad ass, or evil; it makes her whiny, petulant, and ineffectual.  Frankly, I find it offensive (and I'm no prude) to hear a character (any character) use these types of words to dismiss a female character.  I don't mind an occasional "It's on bitch!" - but when ever other word out of Juliette's mouth is "bitch" or "whore" I have a problem.

 

I know Bitsie wanted a beefier role, but you'd think the powers-that-be would have checked to see if their so-called leading lady had the acting chops to carry off this change (here's a hint, she doesn't).  Was she supposed to be angry or annoyed in the Spice Shop?  Was she being arrogant or condescending?  I don't even know what I was supposed to feel when she was part of the Royal Swat team planning the invasion - I've seen vapid looks on actors before, never quite like this. And it really is a shame because I thought Bitsie was perfectly fine when she was playing supportive, voice of reason, helpful girlfriend ... she cannot handle anything more complex.

 

The only thing I did like this episode was Clarie Coffee - I thought she handled the material quite well and I really liked her rather passive-aggressive speech at her mother's graveside.  I thought she and Rosalee made an enjoyable team during the potion making sequences (both actresses played up the dislike the characters have for each other, the weirdness of the situation, and just enough subtle humor).  

 

Renard's story line might be interesting - I don't know because it's been going on too long and we get so little of it it is often lost in the Days of Juliette's Drama.

 

You captured my thoughts completely--I agree 1000%!

 

As for Renard's story line...you know, it could have been good if it were treated with more respect.  We've sort of gotten the lead up to this in fits and sputs and then, boom!, they go all out on that.

 

I can't remember exactly how many episodes ago that Renard first started bleeding out of his wounds--was it the tribunal episode?  It was somewhere around there,...so 7-10 episodes ago.  It was brought up once and ignored for a few episodes, brought up one other time and ignored and then, all of sudden, Renard may have slept with Juliette, may have been attacked by chicken claws, woke up in a pool, and started doing very bad cockney accents.

 

Now, if I were writing this, I would have:

• made a nod to the mystery bleeding at least once an episode since it first started.  
• gotten rid of the chicken claws because, man, that was some terrible CGI,
• Had some assaults/murders happen sort of in the background of the other episodes without even tying it to Renard in anyway
• been more gradual about introducing his blackout so that it was not immediately apparent that the blackouts and the crimes were related.  I'd build it up to this episode where, finally, it becomes the main story
• cut Juliette out of the equation because, for the love of all that is holy,she does not have to be in every.single.storyline
• Killed the cockney accent 
• Not mentioned Jack the Ripper, at least not so bluntly.  Let the audience figure it out.
• Not killed of Henrietta in that way.  I'm actually okay with her being gone (the character didn't really fit into the overall story and was too powerful to be just left on the sidelines), but I wouldn't have had Renard leave the house and then 60 seconds later show up as Jack the Ripper and do her in. Perhaps it would have worked better for someone to just find her body--Rosalee wants to check out Henrietta, pays her a visit, and finds her body with the slashed throat and missing uterus...or something like that.

 

Anyway, that is how I would have done it...

Edited May 4, 2015 by OtterMommy

[Eliza422]

Can someone tell me why Renard has to look every. Single. Time. His wounds reopen....they might as well just make it stock footage and insert it in every few minutes.

I nave to say this episode made me realize I hate Adalind as a character but I really like Claire Coffee! For some reason she has been cracking me up - she's really doing the best she can with truly sucky material.

Bitsie, on the other hand, oh vey. She seems to have no range at all. I really hope Juliette gets killed even if we get mopey Nick for a whole season.

I'm actually excited to see Trubel come back! When her character first appeared I thought she would just be the cliched troubled teen type character, but was definitely proven wrong! Except for that ridiculous name they gave her, she is really great!

[Rockstar99435]

I knew it! As soon as Adalind said last week that the potion would suppress the Heixenbiest side while still being a Heixenbiest, I knew Adalind would end up taking the potion and then joining the Scooby gang. Add to that, Adalind pointing out to everyone that she trusted them and they used that trust to lie and kidnap her child, explaining to her mom's grave that she was going to get her daughter back and raise her kids together, and her pointing out that until Renard and Marie dragged Adalind into the Grimm world, she was just a lawyer living her life, and it's pretty clear that the writers are having Adalind switch teams. I'm okay with it. I like Adalind and the actress is delightful.

[Dobian]

I agree on Adalind.  I think the writers realized that Claire Coffie is who they always wanted Juliette to be, that she has a comic energy that just works with the "Scoobies", and that she would be a better match for Nick.  Giuntoli is like Bitsie Tulloch, he has no humorous side, so the two of them together always have this bland soap opera feel.  But Coffie brings what he lacks to the table and it makes for a more dynamic pairing.

[missbeckydee]

But... that's it exactly. She's NOT in control of herself. The real Juliette would never do these things. Something else is influencing her in a way that is just stronger than she is. Of course she can't just DECIDE to be in control again, that's how not being in control WORKS! Juliette is not Angelus in the Buffy plotline rip-off. She's Willow! Dark Willow who got a taste of power and was taken over by it. She wasn't a different person, she was just Willow under the influence of dark magic to the point where she was destructive and beyond reason. Eventually, her old self will find a foothold and fight back. A few months in the English countryside with Giles, and Juliette will be right as rain. Plus, I should also point out, while we're making Buffy comparisons, that Buffy didn't kill Angelus because he was evil beyond redemption. She killed him because he had caused an immediate threat to the safety of the entire world that only his blood could stop. What made it so affecting was that she never did give up on him, and still thought of him as the man she loved, and was forced to kill him to save the world, even while her allies were still scrambling for ways to return him to his former self. The multi-episode build-up to Buffy dealing with his change and becoming even remotely capable of killing him was affecting and hard-earned, and unfortunately, way beyond Grimm's capabilities. The hackneyed "Dark Willow" storyline is MUCH more comparable, and even then, somehow, this is so much worse.

So what you're saying is we need to find her childhood best friend so they can tell her a charming story about a yellow crayon? ;) Seriously, I agree with you. Much more Dark Willow than Angelus in my mind!

[Free]

But... that's it exactly. She's NOT in control of herself. The real Juliette would never do these things. Something else is influencing her in a way that is just stronger than she is. Of course she can't just DECIDE to be in control again, that's how not being in control WORKS! Juliette is not Angelus in the Buffy plotline rip-off. She's Willow! Dark Willow who got a taste of power and was taken over by it. She wasn't a different person, she was just Willow under the influence of dark magic to the point where she was destructive and beyond reason. Eventually, her old self will find a foothold and fight back. A few months in the English countryside with Giles, and Juliette will be right as rain. Plus, I should also point out, while we're making Buffy comparisons, that Buffy didn't kill Angelus because he was evil beyond redemption. She killed him because he had caused an immediate threat to the safety of the entire world that only his blood could stop. What made it so affecting was that she never did give up on him, and still thought of him as the man she loved, and was forced to kill him to save the world, even while her allies were still scrambling for ways to return him to his former self. The multi-episode build-up to Buffy dealing with his change and becoming even remotely capable of killing him was affecting and hard-earned, and unfortunately, way beyond Grimm's capabilities. The hackneyed "Dark Willow" storyline is MUCH more comparable, and even then, somehow, this is so much worse.

 

Willow had the motivation of losing Tara, someone she loved right in front of her, which triggered Dark Willow.  Juliette happened as a side effect to taking a potion which she willing did so to help Nick, then she blamed Nick and the others for 'creating' her even though it was an unforeseen side effect, then she joined Kenneth (who was a stranger that she suddenly agreed with for no good reason), then she turned full on evil burning the trailer and attacking Nick and the gang.  Her transformation was erratic both in the way it was written  and executed, switching from not being in control to being in control and liking her new powers, whereas with Willow, it was much more consistent for her character and thus her redemption was far more believeable.

[ottilie]

well - now I'm starting to wonder if Renard is not Jack the Ripper and it is really someone in villain Kenneth's entourage, but Renard starts to wonder if he was doing those things during his blackouts. Anyway, I wonder if the renters next to Juliette are all kehrseite who manage to retaliate or call the regular police and get Kenneth sent to jail.

[Sarnia]

 It was stupid for Adalind to test it on herself thereby losing her powers at the time she needs them most. It was extra stupid for her to do that while she's pregnant. After all, half the reason she *is* pregnant is because she didn't think through possible negative outcomes of her last great idea. Why oh why would Addy take a power-suppressing potion at the time she's pregnant with the type of baby that the Wesen world has never seen before?! Why not chug down a bottle of wine while you're at it?

This! I really hope Adalind has a secret agenda because if not, her drinking that potion makes no sense whatsoever. This situation happened because of what she has done to *regain* her powers in the first place, but now she is fine letting them go? And the thing that bothered me the most : why didn't anyone express a single word of concern for what this potion might do to her child? Adalind now spends half her time worrying about her children but she drinks a potion made from a corpse and doesn't have a thought about the possible side-effects to her unborn child? I don't get it.

 

Bud's scenes were about the only enjoyable, genuine moments in this episode.

[OtterMommy]

And the thing that bothered me the most : why didn't anyone express a single word of concern for what this potion might do to her child? 

 

WORD!  I mean it would have been perfectly in character for anyone of them--ESPECIALLY NICK--to say something like, "Woah....think about the baby!"  But, no, everyone is just too enamored with Adalind 2.0.

 

I have a fear that, if they decide to redeem Adalind, that what made me love to hate her will evaporate and I'll end up just hating her.  Like I do Juliette now.

[shapeshifter]

I agree on Adalind.  I think the writers realized that Claire Coffie is who they always wanted Juliette to be, that she has a comic energy that just works with the "Scoobies", and that she would be a better match for Nick.  Giuntoli is like Bitsie Tulloch, he has no humorous side, so the two of them together always have this bland soap opera feel.  But Coffie brings what he lacks to the table and it makes for a more dynamic pairing.

This exactly. But if they do get rid of Juliette entirely, will that be awkward for Giuntoli and Tulloch since they're in a real life relationship?

well - now I'm starting to wonder if Renard is not Jack the Ripper and it is really someone in villain Kenneth's entourage, but Renard starts to wonder if he was doing those things during his blackouts. Anyway, I wonder if the renters next to Juliette are all kehrseite who manage to retaliate or call the regular police and get Kenneth sent to jail.

I hope this is correct.

[ShadowFacts]

well - now I'm starting to wonder if Renard is not Jack the Ripper and it is really someone in villain Kenneth's entourage, but Renard starts to wonder if he was doing those things during his blackouts. Anyway, I wonder if the renters next to Juliette are all kehrseite who manage to retaliate or call the regular police and get Kenneth sent to jail.

This would be a neat twist that I would like, but I think the writers tipped their hat with Renard's voice as Jack.  Once Nick, Hank and Wu figure it out, it's going to be very sticky I would think -- how do they explain this and whatever evidence they have?  Keeping this one a secret will be dicey. 

[FormerMod-a1]

When watching Renard and Henrietta I thought it was too obvious that Renard was Jack the Ripper, and that it was going to be a misdirect.  But who knows with this show.