S01.E19: Who Is Harrison Wells?

[BkWurm1]

I had some problems with Hannible Bates or at least with the logic behind him. The clothes and accessory thing was weird but why didn't they dose the dude with the non changing potion before transporting him?  And just how was showing up with Barry Allen in cuffs supposed to convince the DA and why did Bates start screaming when all he had to do was become the little girl to get out of his cuffs?  He wasn't in a cop car.  The doors open from the inside.  He could have slipped out before either Iris or Caitlin knew what was happening.  Also, when they realized he wasn't Barry, wasn't anyone worried why Barry wasn't answering his door? 

 

I don't know.  I just found this episode too easy to nit pick.  Wells was all around awesome and I like that Caitlin had her worries but I wasn't a fan of when she poured out all her worries that Barry instead of reassuring her that her life wasn't a ruined or a waste, he plays the Dad card.  I was just disappointed too many  times in the writing.  

 

I also was not happy that we were deliberately reminded that Lance has heart problems.  I was hoping the show had dropped that storyline.  Now I have to put him back on the death watch.  If I wasn't watching both Arrow and The Flash, I'd be annoyed that Lance's character development, the softening of a pretty intense anger took place on different show. 

 

I'm not even going to attempt to figure out the timeline between the shows.  Maybe it's supposed to have taken place after or during this weeks episode of Arrow. Otherwise I have a hard time believing Lance took time off from the obsessive no expense spared manhunt he was leading to go look at country roads.  

[Jediknight]

As some others I did kind of liked Laurel cameo... I only rolled my eyes twice and both times were over Cisco geeking out about her being kicking ass and then her threatening to kill him; both of these made me snort laugh and think: kick ass? Buckles? is this an alternate universe is Sara spirit taken over Laurel? cause last i've seen buckles was getting her ass handed to her by a lowly League member... hack an Starling City policeman can probably take her down.. with his bare hands.

She's gotten better, she's been training with Nyssa, and if anyone can whip someone into superhero without powers shape it's an al Ghul.

[foreverevolving]

She's gotten better, she's been training with Nyssa, and if anyone can whip someone into superhero without powers shape it's an al Ghul.

it's only been like a couple of weeks, tops three, in Arrow time. hardly enough time for anyone to get that good, especially Laurel.

Edited April 22, 2015 by foreverevolving

[driedfruit]

 

The stupidest part of the episode was Iris insisting she take the bad guy to the police station. She's not a cop, she's all of 98 pounds and she knows the guy can change into someone else.   Maybe they're right not to tell her.

 

It looked like she wasn't cool with leaving the metahuman at Star Labs, and she was right. How the shape shifter got away was sloppy. 

Edited April 22, 2015 by driedfruit

[opus]

She's gotten better, she's been training with Nyssa, and if anyone can whip someone into superhero without powers shape it's an al Ghul.

Plus she was talking about whipping Cisco. Not plausible?

[Oscirus]

Let me go ahead and put this here

Characters aren't being developed, but, we have time for crossovers.

Relationships aren't being developed, but, we have time for crossovers.

storyline is barely moving along, but we have time for crossovers.

 

I feel like this should be a signature. So by the end of this season we will have at least five arrow crossover episodes out of 23. Yea, you've officially killed the novelty of it congrats.  Maybe we'll get to see Thea's corpse next week.

 

So Iris and Caitlin have a little girl handcuffed in the back of their car and they don't get arrested?

 

Why do I have a feeling that they only got a shapeshifting villain so they could have cool b roll footage?

 

I would've loved to have seen Caitlin's inner struggle with the fact that Wells could be evil expanded. Hell, show us some flashback as opposed to having her tell us.

 

So Joe just takes off without at least lying to his daughter so she won't worry. Such a great father. It's  nice to learn that Iris isn't  allowed to be a district attorney either. Joe, you're the last person to be giving anybody parental advice. Iris grew up into a well rounded women in spite of your parenting not because of it.

 

Does Cisco just keep random spare parts on him in case somebody asks him to invent/enhance something?

 

Nice to see Iris finally being given something to do. I guess we'll have more of that to look forward to... in season 2.

 

The villain was ok, but other then running and hiding, he wasn't really a threat.

 

Laurel wasn't that much different to me but at least she gave Cisco what he wanted. Why would Captain Lance go out there with Cisco and West. That seems like a job that he'd delegate to one of his uniforms.

 

Wells is fun but there's only so many times he can play dumb before it starts to get old. At least next week, things will pick up.

 

It was an ok episode, nothing spectacular but nothing horrendous either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cynic]

Joe: (paraphrasing) "Oh, no, I won't let my daughter anywhere near this stuff."

Me: "Shut up, Joe!" Ugh, I'm over his overprotective BS.

 

Eddie, if you're going to only tell part of the truth, don't preface your statement with "you deserve to know the truth" or whatever he said. Even though Barry's identity is his secret, Eddie still told a huge honking lie about Mason. If Eddie wants to own up, he needs to tell Iris that he's keeping things from her for whatever his reasons are and be prepared for her to not be okay with that. If she then wants to trust his judgement and be okay with his secrets due to her faith in him, then fine. Other than that, I enjoyed Eddie in this episode.

 

Grant Gustin was great as Everyman being Barry. I actually thought all the actors did a fine job playing their doppelgangers and the fight scene was fun. I especially enjoyed the vibe Candice Patton was giving off in the cell. It kinda made me wish she was the one fated to turn into a supervillain. When the writing allows her to be, the actress gives a nice aura of competence and intelligence. Tonight, she also had a good aggressiveness about her. Too bad she's been so relegated to the in the dark love interest role.

 

...

The stupidest part of the episode was Iris insisting she take the bad guy to the police station. She's not a cop, she's all of 98 pounds and she knows the guy can change into someone else.   Maybe they're right not to tell her.

....

It looked like she wasn't cool with leaving the metahuman at Star Labs, and she was right. How the shape shifter got away was sloppy.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure why Iris was the stupid one in that scenario. She was working with incomplete information. The alternative was leaving the bad guy with an even smaller woman who can't even fight like Iris can and a guy in a wheelchair. Then, Wells and Caitlin agree to Iris taking him when they know way more about his abilities and the dangers of them, choose to not discuss those dangers with Iris (since god forbid that she know anything) and worst of all they leave without injecting him with the power restricting potion that Caitlin has (that Iris doesn't know about). Yeah, there's plenty of stupid to go around there.

 

Also, I still think Danielle Panabaker oversells her expressions. The kiss, jerking away, and reaction to seeing herself in the cell all didn't work for me. 

 

Lastly, can the Arrow people please stay on their own show? Or at least, not show up quite so often? Then, maybe the Flash could spend some time developing their own characters more, instead of propping up ones from the mothership.

Edited April 22, 2015 by cynic

[Actionmage]

Why would Captain Lance go out there with Cisco and West. That seems like a job that he'd delegate to one of his uniforms.

 

As he told Joe himself, it was a break from all the paperwork Quentin has to do now that he's Captain. He'd prefer to be back working cases as a detective, but his heart condition blah blah.

 

Then, maybe the Flash could spend some time developing their own characters more, instead of propping up ones from the mothership.

 

For this episode, Quentin and Laurel were used sparingly and within reason.  in fact, even when shutdown by a patented Joe Needs Everyone To Lie To Protect Someone situation, Captain Lance helped move the plot forward by getting our guys to the crime scene himself.  Apparently, Lance also either allowed what amounts to a gravedigging or had his CSI crew exhume the body and swore them to secrecy too. I hope Cisco took lots of crime scene photos. Unless they called Barry to expedite matters.

 

It's  nice to learn that Iris isn't  allowed to be a district attorney either.

 

Don't you know? It's a dangerous job too. I am guessing that any job, besides waitress and homemaker, is considered dangerous because someone could get angry and threaten you. Or something?

 

 

I like that Caitlin had her worries but I wasn't a fan of when she poured out all her worries that Barry instead of reassuring her that her life wasn't a ruined or a waste, he plays the Dad card.

 

Yes! A gentle 'We're not ruining his life, just investigating it. Nothing has be spoken to anyone outside of who was at the house.'  Yet, he is being written as solely focused on how Wells has more than possibly destroyed his life. I do understand that, but it's not playing in Peoria, if you get me.  Joe and Eddie just think he's shady. Cisco has memory/dreams of Wells killing him. Barry has intangible proof that Wells is the RF ( the conversation about vibrating through a solid object) that the entire team should have been privy to hearing, iirc. Barry has to work a little to convince one friend to not give the group away to a potential killer. He can barely do that without making it about himself.

 

While I was glad that someone wasn't automatically on board, I didn't like how they had Caitlin act and react, mostly. While I wasn't keen about Barry following Caitlin around, thus keeping her from talking to Wells, it didn't seem thought out- which is what it was supposed to be. But it was still a cheat. Why set up the "unexplainable" glass of booze with the Music of Tension-building if we're not going to have some fun with the tension? Also, did Caitlin immediately follow  Wells home  in order to question him?  the man barely had time to lope out of the chair and over to sip his booze and  stare into space without his glasses when the bell rang. Rude and stalkery, the whole lot, apparently. 

 

Also, unless pizza=Ronnie=sad thoughts, regardless of Dr. Wells' innocence/ guilt? There was apparently a nice pie to grab a slice- you can eat and be a non-believer, Caitlin.

[BkWurm1]

I feel like this should be a signature. So by the end of this season we will have at least five arrow crossover episodes out of 23. Yea, you've officially killed the novelty of it congrats.

 

Six.  Don't forge the Pilot episode when Barry zipped over to talk to Oliver/Arrow.

 

Lastly, can the Arrow people please stay on their own show? Or at least, not show up quite so often? Then, maybe the Flash could spend some time developing their own characters more, instead of propping up ones from the mothership.

 

To be fair, the Arrow crossovers haven't taken too much from The Flash.  Oliver's cameo and Felicity's first visit was about propping Barry.  The full crossover was reciprocated on each show so that cancels each other out.  Laurel only sucked a minute or so of time up and Cap Lance helped advance the plot and got Joe to remember that he's lying to his daughter. 

 

The only egregious propping really IMO was the All Star Team up last week with Ray and Felicity and while I'd like to be more sympathetic, you guys got away easy with one episode.  Over on Arrow we're scheduled for 18 episodes of Ray and so far only 2-3 haven't been mini pilots for THE ATOM squeezed in your regularly scheduled Arrow.    

 

AND Arrow had two episodes last year to set up Barry so by my calculations, Arrow has propped Barry at least one more episode than The Flash has propped Arrow.  Of course there is still time to even up the score.  ;)

Edited April 22, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Latverian Diplomat]

Love this episode! But the creepy prison needs to be re-thought. Now that the captain and the cool new DA know about these meta humans maybe, they can build special prisons for them, or mental hospitals for guys like Hannibal who have major identity issues, while still letting them get a proper trial, and release date. 

Yes to this. The private prison thing was never thought out all that well. Also, how can the Everyman case be closed? As far as the police and public know, he is still on the loose, right? Or is everyone just fine with a guy in a mask disappearing people? "Have no fear citizens, the Everyman threat has been eliminat...um, dealt with."

 

Is Hannibal Bates an actual name from comics? 

 

Apparently. I suspect his middle name is Moriarty. :-)

 

Yeah, I'm not sure why Iris was the stupid one in that scenario. She was working with incomplete information. The alternative was leaving the bad guy with an even smaller woman who can't even fight like Iris can and a guy in a wheelchair. Then, Wells and Caitlin agree to Iris taking him when they know way more about his abilities and the dangers of them, choose to not discuss those dangers with Iris (since god forbid that she know anything) and worst of all they leave without injecting him with the power restricting potion that Caitlin has (that Iris doesn't know about). Yeah, there's plenty of stupid to go around there.

 

1) If you call the police and ask really nice, they will come and pick people up. They don't actually like civilians to drive around with handcuffed suspects in their back seats.

2) Magic potion was right there! (Though it was a little ambiguous how close it was to being ready -- they could have easily firmed that up and said some science-y version of "it needs two hours to cool on Caitlin's window sill" and made them look a little less dumb). It's not like it's a secret STAR labs consults with the police, so "let us finish this thing here, first, Iris", is not a big ask.. 

3) Dr. Caitlin could have safely drugged the guy and kept him out for hours longer. Of course, she also thinks a full on head slap is the best way to revive someone with a head injury (TV knockout rules + fast healing means Barry's OK, I know, but still stupid).

 

As an aside, I feel like captive evil woman/child begs burly construction workers for help against hapless hero(es) has become a cliche, though a can't think of a specific earlier example at the moment. It's not implausible since they already made mistakes 1-3 above though.

 

Lastly Wells' security system on his secret room sucks. I guess the future is just a more trusting time, even for criminals. Missed opportunity for Barry to use his superpowers to get into it, as opposed to just dumb luck. They went out of their way to show the three of them get swept by a light source on their way in, so I suspect Wells will have some indication of their visit.

 

ETA: For a guy who shot two police officers in cold blood, Everyman went to a lot of trouble to tie Barry up instead of just offing him. Also, any reason Barry couldn't have done the Flash thing to get those guys to the hospital?

 

Sorry to nitpick, but I just feel like the writers aren't even trying on some of these things. With 10% more effort, I think the show could be 100% better.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Latverian Diplomat

[FurryFury]

Wow, so much of holding the idiot ball. Barry, Caitlyn... Seriously, when a shapeshifter on the loose, you'd think they would be more suspicious. 

 

Anyway, I did like the episode. Except for Laurel. Even after dropping Arrow (mostly because of her) she continues to haunt me. Even Cisco doesn't help.

 

I liked basically all Flash characters this episode except for Joe (I just can't like Joe anymore because of his treatment of Iris). Also, I think I'm starting to really like Eddie, which doesn't bode well for the character.

[MarkHB]

I'm starting to wonder if Cisco might actually be a Weaponer of Qward.

I also think that Iris's mother, who AFAIK was never even mentioned before this, probably has something to do with his over-protection, and that will come out before the end of the season.

[cambridgeguy]

The Starling City vibe was completely at odds with all the stuff happening over there but the Lances were both much more likable than they have been on their actual show.  However, if Laurel has been using that sonic bomb it sure hasn't happened on screen - she's only used it once even though she should use it ALL the time to compensate for her lack of training.

 

I actually thought Bates was going to drug the drinks he insisted on giving to Barry and Eddie.  I'm not sure why he didn't just shoot them inside the house since he didn't have a problem shooting those cops.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Why set up the "unexplainable" glass of booze with the Music of Tension-building if we're not going to have some fun with the tension? Also, did Caitlin immediately follow  Wells home  in order to question him?  the man barely had time to lope out of the chair and over to sip his booze and  stare into space without his glasses when the bell rang. Rude and stalkery, the whole lot, apparently.

 

How did Caitlin get to Dr. Wells' house ? I'm assuming she drove there in which case her car would still be at Dr. Wells' house after Barry carried her away.  I'm thinking that Dr. Wells probably has security cameras all over his house as well, so he probably found out eventually that it was Caitlin at his front door and that the Flash took her away.

[driedfruit]

Lastly Wells' security system on his secret room sucks. I guess the future is just a more trusting time, even for criminals. Missed opportunity for Barry to use his superpowers to get into it, as opposed to just dumb luck. They went out of their way to show the three of them get swept by a light source on their way in, so I suspect Wells will have some indication of their visit.

 

It's possible Wells wanted to be found out. If we're supposed to think he's as smart as he is, he's got to have been tipped off that they're onto him since 17. 

 

I liked basically all Flash characters this episode except for Joe (I just can't like Joe anymore because of his treatment of Iris). Also, I think I'm starting to really like Eddie, which doesn't bode well for the character.

 

It doesn't help that he has to meet some quota of misogynistic bullshit every episode, reminding us how awful he is.

 

 

The Iris secrecy arc is getting even more annoying now that suddenly she isn't even allowed to know little bits of information. Like her father being out of town while she's living at his house. Or more importantly, how there's a shapeshifter running around who, very possibly, could take on Barry's form (and definitely Eddie's). That bit of information would've cost her life if not for Wells--the irony. And it was clearly the reason Caitlin couldn't take a second to inject the shifter with magic juice. 

Edited April 22, 2015 by driedfruit

[TobinAlbers]

Lance and West made me want a Law & Order: DC Cops Edition series with special guest star Ben MacKenzie as past Jim Gordon. Can you imagine the crap they could commiserate about?

 

Lance: This Arrow freak really chaps my hide. I wish I had a decent kid like your Flash.

 

West: Yeah, he's a nice kid but we also have metahumans. As in criminals with superpowers.

 

Lance: Criminals with superpowers? No, thank you.

 

West: You could have it worse. You could be in Gotham.

 

Gordon: Hey! (off Lance and West's looks) Yeah, I know. Gotham sucks.

 

Eddie just wins. I'm so glad Eddie is not getting the jealous boyfriend treatment. He could easily take his issues out on Barry but he not only owns his part in the situation, but continues to be nice to Barry and be a friend. I like that they have a relationship independent of Iris where they like and respect each other and it was touching that Barry was willing to just wisk Eddie away to prevent him from going to jail and it was Eddie who calmly talked him down and then up in his absolute belief that he would catch the perp the right way.

 

When Eddie goes bad, it's gonna be heartbreaking. But I rather he become shady they get offed like poor Tommy on Arrow.

 

Finally, Harrison Wells Prime has his body found and is going to get some justice. Hopefully.

 

Maybe it's from watching too much Daredevil but is there any significance to the walls of Welles' secret room. I swear it looks like Braille. Could there be some kind of coding going on there?

 

I guess security is not one of Gideon's protocols.

[Sakura12]

How much time is wasted on having yet another propping of Laurel scene and is she at all necessary to the plot of episode? I'll watch the episode if I know she's not on it that much and can FF her scenes. 

[FurryFury]

She has two scenes with Cisco and she's a little bit in Joe/Quentin/Cisco scene. You can easily FF through her appearances, they don't influence anything.

[JTMacc99]

The stupidest part of the episode was Iris insisting she take the bad guy to the police station. She's not a cop, she's all of 98 pounds and she knows the guy can change into someone else.   Maybe they're right not to tell her.

That was my first thought as well.  She is a detective's daughter, dating a detective, and has been surrounded by police her entire life.  How is it possible that she could think it is okay to 1) hack into her father's access and 2) toss an incredibly dangerous bad guy into her back seat and take him down to the station herself?

 

I mean, yes, the Star Labs people should have drugged the guy, talked her out of it, or at least contacted Joe directly to do some fake explaining to Iris on why it would be better to leave it to them.  (Joe probably had a cell phone with him.)  But that whole "Wow! Did you see what that guy could do?!  Well, I'm going to put him in my back seat of my small car and take him down to the station now. So long!" was so stupid and reckless that I definitely thought that maybe they're right to keep her in the dark.

Edited April 22, 2015 by JTMacc99

[driedfruit]

That was my first thought as well.  She is a detective's daughter, dating a detective, and has been surrounded by police her entire life.  How is it possible that she could think it is okay to 1) hack into her father's access and 2) toss an incredibly dangerous bad guy into her back seat and take him down to the station herself?

 

I mean, yes, the Star Labs people should have drugged the guy, talked her out of it, or at least contacted Joe directly to do some fake explaining to Iris on why it would be better to leave it to them.  (Joe probably had a cell phone with him.)  But that whole "Wow! Did you see what that guy could do?!  Well, I'm going to put him in my back seat of my small car and take him down to the station now. So long!" was so stupid and reckless that I definitely thought that maybe they're right to keep her in the dark.

 

Why was she stupid to hack into her father's account?

 

And Iris didn't know how dangerous the guy was. Without his gun and in Barry's scrawny form he hardly seemed powerful. How is it the one character who has no idea what she's dealing with who is being stupid and not the people who are fully aware and letting her, without taking precautions? 

 

Between Barry and Caitlin's obliviousness, knowing full well a shapeshifter was running about, Iris is far from the stupidest one in the episode. 

[SimoneS]

I'm pretty sure Wells is already onto them. He does have cameras on Barry's loft (that's how he saw Barry get hit by lightning), so I'm fairly certain he already knows they're onto him.

That's why he went to visit Joe - to basically toy with him and let him know he knows - or maybe to confirm it and kinda threaten him a bit.

Tom Cav is amazing though - I both am terrified of Wells and I pity him.

 

I find it hard to believe that Wells knows that they are onto him.  In the original timeline, he acted quickly when Cisco was about to discover his secret. Surely Wells would have taken steps to move the Reverse Flash suit out of Star Labs given how much he respects Cisco's intellect. However, I expect that he will figure it out soon. Barry, Cisco, and Caitlin are not great at deception. 

Edited April 22, 2015 by SimoneS

[Gregg247]

Rather than write a long explanation about how much I enjoyed this episode, let me just hit the highest of high points:

 

Caitlyn as a villain fighting the Flash was HOT!

[futurechemist]

Was the end conversation between Wells and Joe meant to seem sinister?  The music says yes, but the conversation seemed weird and meandering.  But if it was sinister, then Wells is on to them (he did know that Joe went to Starling City, who told him?)  But it didn't seem like Wells was making any threats.

 

Was the end with Hannibal meant to make us sad that he doesn't know what he looks like?  Because there was a picture of him in his grandmother's house and I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to grab a high school yearbook photo or drivers license or something.

 

I was amused with the Black Canary scene.  "Modify this".  That's pretty vague.  Did she not care at all about how Cisco changed it?  

[ottoDbusdriver]

Why was she stupid to hack into her father's account?

 

Aside from the fact that a reporter illegally accessed the account of the Chief of Police and kind of broke the law.  And servers generally log the IP from where the account is accessed, so if she hacked into her dad's CCPD account from the newspaper offices that's even worse.

 

My big question about this episode -- when did Everyman touch Eddie in order to copy him ?  It didn't happen during the chase and we didn't see Everyman-as-his-grandmother touch Eddie.  So when exactly ?

 

I'm surprised Quentin didn't freak out more about his floating coffee.

[chelsie]

I'm going to have to part company on this issue:

 

misogyny? I don't think Joe has a dislike or hatred of women. Its not like he's Ron Weasley (:p). I think we are being set up for a much needed 1:1 with Iris/Joe where he realises his "little girl" is a grown woman *beyonce voice* and we find out what happened to Mrs. West.

 

My primary issue with the "keeping iris in the dark" is that she had nothing to do, or rather she was given nothing to do and it left her aimless. I am so glad she was actually proactive and doing stuff in this episode. What happened to her blog? When Ronnie came to visit her blog was still active.

 

I'll imagine that Wells is rather narcissitic as well as sociopathic and was getting bored with how everyone was so unsuspecting, so kicked  the "game" up a notch.

 

Caitlin's reaction was, to some extent, what I wanted from Barry. Mason goes missing, and Barry's all "that man killed my mom". The only way Barry's reaction works is if Wells had already given him pause (Before OOT) that he could not devote much time to.

 

I'm usually "whatever" at names parents give their kids (afterall, I share my name with a football club), but, seriously, Hannibal?

Edited April 22, 2015 by chelsie

[bluebonnet]

 

Was the end with Hannibal meant to make us sad that he doesn't know what he looks like?  Because there was a picture of him in his grandmother's house and I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to grab a high school yearbook photo or drivers license or something.

 

I'm not sure it was meant to make us sad, because if we felt sad then we'd have to loathe our heroes for locking people up in an inhumane prison. 

 

But, I definitely felt sad.  This particular metahuman needs therapy.  If doesn't matter if he can look at a picture of his first self.  He's apparently lost who he is.  That picture is someone he no longer recognizes for whatever reason.  Perhaps it's some sort of meta version of severe body dysphoria.  Whatever it is, it makes me feel sick that they all just stared at him like they didn't care that he would be in solitary confinement for an indefinite period of time.  

 

Don't get me wrong, dude is a criminal.  But even criminals deserve medical care.  

[TV Anonymous]

When learning that the culprit was a shapeshifter, I hoped that he was not a meta-human but rather a relative of Sam Merlotte. Imagine the crossover potential. Who would be faster? Barry Allen or Eric Northman?

[foreverevolving]

Lance and West made me want a Law & Order: DC Cops Edition series with special guest star Ben MacKenzie as past Jim Gordon. Can you imagine the crap they could commiserate about?

 

Lance: This Arrow freak really chaps my hide. I wish I had a decent kid like your Flash.

 

West: Yeah, he's a nice kid but we also have metahumans. As in criminals with superpowers.

 

Lance: Criminals with superpowers? No, thank you.

 

West: You could have it worse. You could be in Gotham.

 

Gordon: Hey! (off Lance and West's looks) Yeah, I know. Gotham sucks.

 

I would totally watch this!!

hey was't JLM in L&O or one of those shows once?

[MarkHB]

Re: "Hacked into her father's account".  Anyone else want to bet that the password is something like "Iris1988"?

[Sakura12]

Come on, we all know Joe's password is "Don't tell Iris". 

[patchwork]

I find it hard to believe that Wells knows that they are onto him.  In the original timeline, he acted quickly when Cisco was about to discover his secret. Surely Wells would have taken steps to move the Reverse Flash suit out of Star Labs given how much he respects Cisco's intellect. However, I expect that he will figure it out soon. Barry, Cisco, and Caitlin are not great at deception. 

 

It's possible that he wants them to be suspicious now that Barry has been able to time travel. The Harrison Wells façade has done it's job in creating the Flash and mentoring him but now it's time for the next stage of the plan (whatever that is).  

[FurryFury]

Re: "Hacked into her father's account".  Anyone else want to bet that the password is something like "Iris1988"?

More like "Barry1988".

[JTMacc99]

Why was she stupid to hack into her father's account?

Because it's probably frowned upon for a police detective to let his friends and relatives have access to sensitive data intentionally or unintentionally? 

 

I would assume by hacking into her father's account, she is at the least putting him in a position to get into some sort of trouble, and at the worst could land her in legal trouble and get her father suspended/terminated.  I realize this is a comic book based TV show, and I am perfectly willing to accept time travel and super intelligent gorillas as legitimate, but I think the show needs to be careful about just inventing ways to make things happen when it damages the relationships between characters.

 

In this case, having Iris doing some solid investigative reporting using the tool of "hacking into her father's account" was unacceptable in my opinion for the reasons I just stated.  It makes her character less likable simply because it was a reckless decision.  Also it was completely unnecessary for the show to have her find the information that way unless they actually wanted me to think that Iris doesn't give a crap about trouble her actions might create.

 

And of course, maybe that is exactly what the show wants.  Maybe they want to show Iris is so beside herself from being left in the dark that everybody else around her is going to be in trouble until they come clean.

[bluebonnet]

Are y'all kidding?  Team Arrow and Team Flash make a business out of hacking.  Iris does it and people are flipping out calling her stupid and/or unacceptable?  Keep in mind, Iris revealed hacking minutes after Team Flash did the same damn thing.  

 

Double standards, much?

[patchwork]

Because it's probably frowned upon for a police detective to let his friends and relatives have access to sensitive data intentionally or unintentionally? 

 

I would assume by hacking into her father's account, she is at the least putting him in a position to get into some sort of trouble, and at the worst could land her in legal trouble and get her father suspended/terminated.  I realize this is a comic book based TV show, and I am perfectly willing to accept time travel and super intelligent gorillas as legitimate, but I think the show needs to be careful about just inventing ways to make things happen when it damages the relationships between characters.

 

In this case, having Iris doing some solid investigative reporting using the tool of "hacking into her father's account" was unacceptable in my opinion for the reasons I just stated.  It makes her character less likable simply because it was a reckless decision.  Also it was completely unnecessary for the show to have her find the information that way unless they actually wanted me to think that Iris doesn't give a crap about trouble her actions might create.

 

And of course, maybe that is exactly what the show wants.  Maybe they want to show Iris is so beside herself from being left in the dark that everybody else around her is going to be in trouble until they come clean.

 

I'll give her some leeway because of the situation but yeah I hope hacking daddy's account doesn't become a staple of Iris's investigating technique. 

[TwistedandBored]

I am glad everything is out in the open. I can't wait for next episode. 

 

Honestly, Eddie couldn't you have told Iris you were working with the Flash last episode? Why hide that part of the secret? 

 

Tom Cavanagh is such a revelation on this show. His ending scene with Joe was equal parts chilling/threatening and somewhat sympathetic. I really hope they find a way to keep him on this show for the long haul.

 

As much as I love Tom Cavanagh in this role and I do…I want him gone by the end of the season. I hate when villains over stay their welcome and I don't want to start hating this character. Let him leave on a high note…causing as much damage on his way out as he can! :D

[phoenics]

I'll give her some leeway because of the situation but yeah I hope hacking daddy's account doesn't become a staple of Iris's investigating technique.

Well she could just do it every single episode of every single show of Arrow like - oh wait - that's what Felicity does. So it's okay for Felicity but not Iris? Miss me with that.

Also - I seem to remember several episodes of Lois & Clark where Lois was definitely breaking many laws to get her story.

I'm just glad we got shown a kick ass Iris being fully proactive and having some agency.

[JTMacc99]

Well she could just do it every single episode of every single show of Arrow like - oh wait - that's what Felicity does. So it's okay for Felicity but not Iris? Miss me with that.

Also - I seem to remember several episodes of Lois & Clark where Lois was definitely breaking many laws to get her story.

I'm just glad we got shown a kick ass Iris being fully proactive and having some agency.

 

My entire issue is the simple difference between the character saying "I hacked into the police database" and "I hacked into my father's account."

 

One I overlook as "Sure, why not?" and the other I see as "Well, that's not cool."

 

Felicity and I suppose Lois are doing what they do.  Iris could have very easily been written to be that way, but simply by making her take advantage of her father makes it a completely different action.  She has a lifetime of relationships with people in law enforcement. We should probably assume that she would know what would happen if somebody found out that Joe's daughter was digging around that database using his account.

[cambridgeguy]

Iris hacking into Joe's account is no worse than what any of the other characters do as long as she's capable of covering her tracks.  Even if she isn't it's certainly not at the top of the list of sins and dubious moves made by the heroes of the show . 

 

While Joe and Barry deserve her wrath when the secret comes out I don't think the others should be painted with the same brush.  Barry's secret is not theirs to spill and Eddie only deserves some crap for the Mason Bridge stuff.  Caitlin is under no obligation to spill the beans about Ronnie, especially if Iris sees herself as an impartial reporter obligated to report the news.

 

Also, while it was a cool shoutout I wonder what the geography of the cities is.  Barry's top speed under normal conditions (so far) should not be greater than 1000 MPH so just how far away is Coast City?  Central City is usually in the midwest while Coast City is on the West Coast.  That's more than an hour of running for Barry so I sure hope the pizza was fantastic.

Edited April 22, 2015 by cambridgeguy

[patchwork]

Well she could just do it every single episode of every single show of Arrow like - oh wait - that's what Felicity does. So it's okay for Felicity but not Iris? Miss me with that.

Also - I seem to remember several episodes of Lois & Clark where Lois was definitely breaking many laws to get her story.

I'm just glad we got shown a kick ass Iris being fully proactive and having some agency.

 

Hacking in itself doesn't bother me it's more because of how she's treated by the men in her life that I want her to be good at her job, including the investigative aspect and for there to be no doubt that she's good at it. There's other ways for Iris to get information which don't rely on her dad (or Eddie) and in the normal course of things, when her boyfriend hasn't been arrested for murder, I'd prefer she show her competence by using those other avenues. 

 

As I said I don't mind it in this instance I just don't want it to become her go to move, I want Iris to be more independent and competent than that. 

Edited April 22, 2015 by patchwork

[phoenics]

My entire issue is the simple difference between the character saying "I hacked into the police database" and "I hacked into my father's account."

 

One I overlook as "Sure, why not?" and the other I see as "Well, that's not cool."

There is no distinction legally. Technically that's exactly what Iris did - she hacked the database BY getting into her father's account.

In fact, most cyber crime isn't the Felicity kind, it's exactly what Iris did. So - sorry - no distinction. I don't understand the criticism and honestly the criticism seems to employ an egregious double standard. Iris bashed for essentially the same thing that Felicity is praised for.

Also Barry actually asked Wells and Co to do the EXACT same thing that Iris did - but funny - apparently they didn't even do it - Iris did - and blew this case wide open all on her own.

Felicity and I suppose Lois are doing what they do.  Iris could have very easily been written to be that way, but simply by making her take advantage of her father makes it a completely different action.  She has a lifetime of relationships with people in law enforcement. We should probably assume that she would know what would happen if somebody found out that Joe's daughter was digging around that database using his account.

It could easily have been Joe digging around in his own account. Unless Joe reports it, they wouldn't know. Cause the internet - Joe could access that account from anywhere.

And funny - Lois has done the exact same thing before - using her connections to people to break into homes, businesses, etc. and accounts. WHY is it okay for her, but not Iris?

Double. standard.

[Lady Calypso]

I actually had no issues with Iris hacking into her father's account. First off, it shows her as a competent individual. She's been lied to so many times, and I think she knows it, that she's willing to find this stuff out herself. She wants to help save Eddie but nobody is letting her, so why not do it herself if she has the means and the tools to do so? It's not the best decision, but seeing as everyone is lying to her and also doing shady things like also hacking, I don't put any blame on Iris doing it herself. Also, it establishes her as competent enough to be put on Team Flash Mob. She fits in naturally and this is the first instance where we see that it's possible and that it's ridiculous that Iris still doesn't know. I hope next season, she is part of the team because she would fit in perfectly with them. Y'know, unlike Laurel.

 

Ok, speaking of Laurel, I actually really enjoyed her this episode. I actually like that she smiled a lot more and this is the first time on this show where I thought she looked really pretty. I've seen her on other shows and know Katie Cassidy is attractive, so seeing her smile and actually be fun was great. Ok, the whole Cisco propping and the Canary Cry irked me but for once, that wasn't on Laurel or KC. So....man, if Laurel only smiled naturally like this a lot more, maybe I'd enjoy her! I also enjoyed Quentin, who was not being annoying like he has been the last few episodes of Arrow, so that's good. But Joe...man, Joe could learn a thing or two about the consequences of lying. I hope both men take something out of this episode from each other. Quentin, on forgiving Laurel, and Joe on lying to Iris and how that is BAD. But...I don't think Joe will learn a single thing.

 

I kind of felt bad for the metahuman, but I've kind of accepted that their treatment of these people, who didnt choose their powers, are going to backfire. 

 

I really like Eddie and I hope he doesn't die. I imagine he'll probably go Dark Side, even if it's only temporary, and I'd rather have that then him get killed off. I like his friendship with Barry. He seems to be the moral compass on this show, to an extent. 

Also, I guess the less said about the Faux Barry/Caitlin kiss, the better. I would have been much happier if she was just weirded out and not into it. 

[phoenics]

I did feel very badly for the metahuman at the end when he couldn't remember who he was anymore. That... wow... It also made me wonder how he manages to shapeshift. Does he have to touch someone? And then what? How does he construct who they are physically all over from one touch?

And since he's himself, he just needs to remember what he looks like in order to look like himself?

I'm over thinking this.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Was the end conversation between Wells and Joe meant to seem sinister?  The music says yes, but the conversation seemed weird and meandering.  But if it was sinister, then Wells is on to them (he did know that Joe went to Starling City, who told him?)  But it didn't seem like Wells was making any threats.

There was a fairly thin veneer of menace beneath everything Wells said.

"How was Starling City?"="I know you were on a trip to Starling City, even though no one told me that. I'm keeping tabs on you."

 

"We're both members of the same club and the admission price is too high."="You don't want to have to renew your membership dues, do you?"

 

My big question about this episode -- when did Everyman touch Eddie in order to copy him ?  It didn't happen during the chase and we didn't see Everyman-as-his-grandmother touch Eddie.  So when exactly ?

 

I'm fine with assuming that either when he was his grandma Everyman touched him or he touched him during the chase or in some other guise prior to all that Everyman assumed another guise and decided to check in on the investigation into his latest crime by spying on and touching Eddie.

Also, while it was a cool shoutout I wonder what the geography of the cities is.  Barry's top speed under normal conditions (so far) should not be greater than 1000 MPH so just how far away is Coast City?  Central City is usually in the midwest while Coast City is on the West Coast.  That's more than an hour of running for Barry so I sure hope the pizza was fantastic.

I don't know why you think that his top speed under normal conditions shouldn't be greater than 1000 MPH. In some of the early episodes he was able to go at least 700 MPH (at least, that's what I think he was told was necessary to run up the side of a building and on water). I think that to do the supersonic punch against Girder, he went 800+ mph. And as we've been told, he's been getting faster.  

 

Also Barry actually asked Wells and Co to do the EXACT same thing that Iris did - but funny - apparently they didn't even do it - Iris did - and blew this case wide open all on her own.

 

 

Barry and co. actually did the exact same thing Iris did, which is how they were steps ahead of her in locating Bates originally.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Chicago Redshirt

[phoenics]

Barry and co. actually did the exact same thing Iris did, which is how they were steps ahead of her in locating Bates originally.

They were steps ahead of her because they had information she didn't from when the crime first happened.

But you're right - they did do it. Duh - that's how they were at his grandmother's house. *slaps head*

[Chicago Redshirt]

Flash's fails in this episode (to not catch an ordinary speed Everyman when he had every opportunity, and to not inject him with the no-shifting juice) have already been touched on.

 

But how dumb a criminal is Everyman?

 

First, his MO to shapeshift into innocent people and get caught on camera doing the crime. Why bother, when you can steal stuff off camera, or by shapeshifting into people with criminal records? Or shapeshift into Ray Palmer/Oliver Queen and just take millions worth of stuff without it seeming like a crime at all?

 

Then, when you've gotten away with this, what, a dozen times, why hang out at your grandma's house when you could be living it up on the Riviera or what have you?

 

And then when he's fighting the Flash, why shapeshift into all those random people (except for the plot demanding it so that Eddie can be cleared)? It's not like Everyman has any idea that any of them are connected to the Flash, nor is it that they are particularly good at fighting.

[Oscirus]

Six.  Don't forge the Pilot episode when Barry zipped over to talk to Oliver/Arrow.

 

1. pilot, 2. episode 4 3.  crossover episode 4. episode 18 5. episode 19. What episode am I missing?

 

Aside from the fact that a reporter illegally accessed the account of the Chief of Police and kind of broke the law.  And servers generally log the IP from where the account is accessed, so if she hacked into her dad's CCPD account from the newspaper offices that's even worse.

 

 

Isn't Joe just a detective? Regardless how do we know she didn't hack from the house? If she hacked his account from his house it would just be seen as Joe accessing the footage.

 

The funniest part about Iris is that when Joe and Barry aren't around, she can actually be competent. Funny how that works.

 

As he told Joe himself, it was a break from all the paperwork Quentin has to do now that he's Captain. He'd prefer to be back working cases as a detective, but his heart condition blah blah.

 

 

You're probably right but it still bugs me that he goes out on what seemed to be a simple investigation of an accident that happened years ago.

 

While we're at it, why are the producers trying to get viewers to Arrow by vaguely referencing the lie to Quentin about Sara's death fiasco? That's really not a popular storyline. Of course people will say so that they could talk about their daughters, but that conversation wasn't a good look for Joe either.

 

Hey Cisco! Since you're good at inventing things, an anti- arrow character force field would be much appreciated about now.

[JTMacc99]

In fact, most cyber crime isn't the Felicity kind, it's exactly what Iris did. So - sorry - no distinction. I don't understand the criticism and honestly the criticism seems to employ an egregious double standard. Iris bashed for essentially the same thing that Felicity is praised for.

My criticism is that it is a shitty thing to do to her father.  It has nothing to do with the specific action of hacking. It has to do with stealing something from her father.

 

So yes, if I were criticizing her for hacking but being okay with Felicity hacking, then I could be employing an egregious double standard.  But I was not attempting to do that and have not done a good enough job of explaining myself.

 

If the show wants that to be the point, and the reason would be that everybody else is hiding things from her so therefore it is okay that she is picking fights with Eddie and stealing her father's police property, then fine.  It doesn't make me like her more. It doesn't make me like any of them more.  I watch shows like this, and tolerate the asinine plots, because I enjoy the character relationships. 

 

I do not approve of any interactions where one of them is disrespectful to another. I don't approve of Joe's bullshit where he told Eddie that he doesn't outrank the Iris relationship until he marries her, and I don't approve of Iris stealing her father's access. I don't feel as though I am deploying any double standard to what I approve of and what I don't, but I could be wrong.

[bluebonnet]

Oh ffs, she couldn't contact her father because her father decides to routinely lie to the little lady because the poor little girl can't handle the truth. Meanwhile, her partner is being accused for a crime he didn't commit.  So she did what every damn character on these shows do, she hacked.  Even her father is involved in hacking.  Hacking is always disrespectful to someone.  Stop with this double standard crap.  

[ottoDbusdriver]

Isn't Joe just a detective? Regardless how do we know she didn't hack from the house? If she hacked his account from his house it would just be seen as Joe accessing the footage.

 

You are correct -- I was thinking Quentin but I meant Joe, Joe's just a detective.