S07.E03: Battle Of The Brunches

[sasha206]

I was starting to like Dorinda, but I don't care if it was a mistake or not, flagging down someone to check her coat like she's fucking royalty is obnoxious.  And it may not be overtly racist, I sincerely doubt she would've flagged down a white man in a nice suit in a nice restaurant.  So subconsciously she thought he was out of place.

 

Meanwhile, coming out of Bethenney's brunch with a bunch of Skinny Girl items was it Kristin who declared they were "ghetto"?  

 

Bethenney is just so in love with herself at this point that she's hard to take.  As is Carole and her constant prestige-dropping ("Oscar giveaways").

 

LuAnn and Ramona are now coming off as the most likeable at this point.

[Sincerely Yours]

 

 

 

Indeed. And again, Heather was just trying to make conversation about business with another businesswoman - common ground. Not "braid pussy hair." (Thanks Beth, you're the reason my Mom can't watch this show.)

See THIS!? Braid pussy hair? Like she just says crazy things and thinks it's witty. That shit annoys the crap outta me. She's so please with herself but 75% of the time it's random words thrown together in hopes of a reactions. Yeah braid pussy hair gets the quick confused laugh cause it sounds crazy but then leaves you confused. I like witty that makes you chuckle and then it really washes over you how cleverly funny it is and turns into an all out laugh for a few minutes. 2 thousand and who cares? Not bad, I liked that one but still not Queen of the quip status so I really wish she would stop thinking she's so damn funny cause most of the time she's not. Gaaahh!

[Sincerely Yours]

Yeah, I don't hang on Beth's every word. My point is that someone paid for her chi chi education. And she did keep trying, which I applaud, but who helped her pay her rent while she was exploring all the other business opportunities? It irritates me that she acts like she hit a home run when she was born on third base.

Yeah and the fact that it was the 10th thing she tried. I mean at what point did holding down an actual stable job cross her mind? Hey I'm all about being ambitious and had she not kept going (and had Jill Zarin not suggest her for the show) she wouldn't have finally hit success but her history screams of someone who just felt it was beneath her to hold a steady job. I mean, I'm assuming Heather's success got off the ground because she started working in the traditional sense and worked her way into her own business over time,  hard work, innovation and pushing forward. I won't knock what B has or how she got it but I'm not too impressed with what she was about before she tripped into a box of Lucky Charms just saying.

[LIMOM]

Thank you. 

 

I do not recall "labeling" Dorinda a racist.

 

I agree Dorinda would have checked her coat at the door. I also think anyone working at a "classy" restaurant would not be allowed to walk around in just a shirt and tie. They wear jackets or uniforms (black ties). Dorinda would have known this if she frequented upscale restaurants. She would have also known you don't scream out "Oooh, you have oysters!" or "Yoo Hoo" staff. She is no society lady.

 

I'm a Black woman living in Manhattan. My husband is White. We've been to our share of upscale restaurants. Our coats are checked at the door - though in some cases we're given a choice to keep them - and one would never flagged down restaurant staff the way one would in a diner. (No shade, I like diners, but waitresses have sat in the diner booth with me while taking my order. Very different atmosphere.)

 

My husband has never been mistaken for a waiter, busboy, coat check...boy? I, on the other hand, have been mistaken for a waitress, hostess, escort and, when his mother is with us, a home care worker. In our luxury apartment building, I've been mistaken for his housekeeper and nanny (we have no children).

 

Yeah, Dorinda, it was the shirt.

 

In other news, I actually liked what Sonja and Ramona were wearing at the pick-up bar. The simple black dress looks good on them.

 

I'm happy for Luann and impressed by her confidence, but she seems different to me. I don't think I'd want to be her friend. That said, I am so glad she gave it to Ramona in a subtle, revenge-is-best-served-cold kind of way. That's the way to do it. Step back and let their lives unravel then go for the kill.

 

ETA: I hated that Kristen called it "ghetto" when they were all leaving Bethenny's house with swag. What the hell did that mean? Carole was the first to ask for a blender and had the gall, in her TH, to say she wanted the most expensive thing. It wasn't "Ghetto", it was "New York Housewife".

I think if Dorinda was a racist, she would not have been so quick to offer an explanation (on Twitter?)

[sasha206]

 

I'm really not loving Carol this time around either. Her little dig about how Ramona couldn't steal any of HER clothes, because she wouldn't fit into them, was so uncalled for. Look, I don't mind a good snark, but why shame women for their looks? It's just so gross. And Ramona looks great for her age, IMO. 

 

AMEN.  Not to mention, Ramona looks much better than Carole.  I think Carole thinks skinny = sexy and she couldn't be more wrong.  I guarantee you that if you strip off the tangential Kennedy mystique from Carole, very few men would give her the time of day with that super skinny body and overbite of a horse.

[ScoobieDoobs]

I get that Bethany doesn't like Kelly but she was being a rude drama queen not going to the table and staying at the bar until Luann came to her. There were enough people in the group that she wouldn't have had to say more than hi to Kelly.

 

 

Idk, B absolutely can be a drama queen, but I'm not sure she was in that particular moment.  If I were her I wouldn't wanna have to deal with Kelly either.  They just showed the Scary Island ep, and whether Kelly was stoned outta her mind then or not, she certainly said some horribly insulting things to Bethenny.  I still say B smelled a producer setup & just didn't wanna take the bait.  And that was pretty much it.

 

See THIS!? Braid pussy hair? Like she just says crazy things and thinks it's witty. That shit annoys the crap outta me

 

.

That was crass & I didn't care for it.  She's throwing shit out to shock & get our attention.  This is the Bethenny who used to be on the show.  But I never liked that about her.  Hope she doesn't do more of this, but I know she will.  Ick.

 

My husband has never been mistaken for a waiter, busboy, coat check...boy? I, on the other hand, have been mistaken for a waitress, hostess, escort and, when his mother is with us, a home care worker. In our luxury apartment building, I've been mistaken for his housekeeper and nanny (we have no children).

 

 

Well, but I have been mistaken this way, as I mentioned earlier in this thread -- more than a few times -- in fancy Manhattan restaurants & boutiques & I'm white -- merely cuz I am in a shirt & tie.  So it definitely does happen.  There are a lot of boorish idiots out there with money.  Is Dorinda one of them?  Sure looks like it.  Is she a racist?  I have no idea.  But I'm not willing to make that claim from this one incident.  I will say it made me very uncomfortable & I liked her a helluva lot less after watching her do that.

Edited April 23, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[sasha206]

I think if Dorinda was a racist, she would not have been so quick to offer an explanation (on Twitter?)

 

I don't understand this comment.  The speed of which you offer up an explanation is the determination of whether or not you are a racist?

[Sheenieb]

 

I was thinking the same thing about what the young guys might "inherit" from Sonja.

 

Eh, Sonja can be desperate, but her sexuality doesn't need to be policed, either.  It's not as they were underage naive boys having their first big city experience.

[slade3]

Bethenny's chef had put out a fabu spread of healthy, delicious-looking food, and nothing was touched. Bethenny popped one bite of something in her mouth but that was it. I felt sorry for the unassuming chef as he lingered a bit, then backed out of the room. I guess cause he wasn't a hot, 20 something, there was no interest in flirting with him or allowing him to speak on camera?

The thing about Bs brunch that I found more curious than the absence of eating was that nobody beside B actually sat down! What an uncomfortable image they presented. I know it's all about editing but to me it looked like they were all just playing a part and couldn't wait to leave. They were there to spotlight Bs new house, her products, take a sip of whatever, then on to the real brunch. And they were rewarded for their flyover with goodies to take home.

 

I haven't liked Bethenny this season (all of 3 episodes), but I think she handled the brunch well. I would not be on speaking terms with those women if they came into my house and, after fifteen minutes, said they were off to Ramona's (obviously) made-up brunch, created just to make sure no one went to Bethenny's house, and then had the nerve to ask for blenders before they left. I mean, they were all shouting out which goodies they wanted like they were at a Costco auction house.

 

It's possible they stayed at Bethenny's longer than we were led to believe, and I did hear Luann say "That was delicious" at one point, but I wasn't sure if she meant her drink or the mini quiche/omelette(?). But I admit, I've canceled New Year's Eve parties at my place when most of my guests admitted I was going to be a "first stop". That always means they are giving you ten minutes to nosh before they move on. These ladies didn't even have the decency to tell anyone whether they were showing up and Bethenny put out a nice spread.

[Sincerely Yours]

 

Well, but I have been mistaken this way, as I mentioned earlier in this thread -- more than a few times -- in fancy Manhattan restaurants & boutiques & I'm white -- merely cuz I am in a shirt & tie.  So it definitely does happen.  There are a lot of boorish idiots out there with money.  Is Dorinda one of them?  Sure looks like it.  Is she a racist?  I have no idea.  But I'm not willing to make that claim from this one incident.  I will say it made me very uncomfortable & I liked her a helluva lot less after watching her do that.

See I'm with ya on this one. I think it was more of an entitled, people with money move and not so much she saw a person of color thing. For that, rude and dick move but I don't think it has anything to do with his race. Not everything revolves around the color of someone's skin. Sometimes asshole moves happen for other reasons too.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[QuinnM]

 

It's possible they stayed at Bethenny's longer than we were led to believe, and I did hear Luann say "That was delicious" at one point, but I wasn't sure if she meant her drink or the mini quiche/omelette(?). But I admit, I've canceled New Year's Eve parties at my place when most of my guests admitted I was going to be a "first stop". That always means they are giving you ten minutes to nosh before they move on. These ladies didn't even have the decency to tell anyone whether they were showing up and Bethenny put out a nice spread.

I actually checked her website because I couldn't figure out the seemingly random pencils in the cute tomato can.  She has the whole brunch menu/recipes/drinks up on her website.  This woman is good at that.  She works damn hard on that brand.  One of her drinks used the Bethenny blender.  The pencils were on a heartshaped bamboo cutting board.  I'm guessing you can have your guests write on the board etc.  So a it was a nice spread.  It was definitely used on her website as advertising.  So not a total loss for her.

[ZoloftBlob]

I don't understand this comment.  The speed of which you offer up an explanation is the determination of whether or not you are a racist?

 

No, I think what the poster was going for was that Dorinda realized how the incident would look and addressed it and offered an explanation as quickly as she could in order to fend off the knee jerk "must be racist" comments. If she was genuinely racist, she wouldn't care or wouldn't consider it a faux pas.

[Higgins]

Telling someone that they're boring you with their story and you have no interest in what they're talking about is polite?!

And the preview for next week's episode (and more of the scene was shown on WWHL) showed Bethenny pretending to fall asleep when Heather was trying to talk to her. Polite?

Remember when Vicki snored at whomever? Same thing, rude.

 

I shouldn't have used the word greedy.  But I don't get why a wealthy person (and she likes to appear wealthy) would bother with nickel and diming like that.  When I get something new,  I like to give the old item to charity or someone needy and I am just middle class.   It's a good feeling.  At least she was able to hire someone to sell her crap.  I imagine it would have been embarrassing for a "countess" to be haggling over dollars. 

That's how wealthy people stay wealthy, the are smart with their money. My FIL is very wealthy he could by a new luxury car every couple of years, instead he buys the best and keeps it well maintained for a decade or more. He does donate to charities that are important to him. Maybe Luann does too.

See THIS!? Braid pussy hair? Like she just says crazy things and thinks it's witty. That shit annoys the crap outta me. She's so please with herself but 75% of the time it's random words thrown together in hopes of a reactions. Yeah braid pussy hair gets the quick confused laugh cause it sounds crazy but then leaves you confused. I like witty that makes you chuckle and then it really washes over you how cleverly funny it is and turns into an all out laugh for a few minutes. 2 thousand and who cares? Not bad, I liked that one but still not Queen of the quip status so I really wish she would stop thinking she's so damn funny cause most of the time she's not. Gaaahh!

If Brandi said that., oh, the outrage at her crude mouth.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Higgins

[talula]

I can't believe any guy in his right mind (maybe under the influence of something) would be interested in Ramona, Sonja or Bethenny after seeing them on TV. Talk about women with the personalities of a wet cigar, lol.

[ZoloftBlob]

See THIS!? Braid pussy hair? Like she just says crazy things and thinks it's witty. That shit annoys the crap outta me. She's so please with herself but 75% of the time it's random words thrown together in hopes of a reactions. Yeah braid pussy hair gets the quick confused laugh cause it sounds crazy but then leaves you confused.

 

Oh I wasn't confused by it at all - she was obviously snarking on the idea of women getting together and bonding over doing their hair and nails and went with "braiding their pussy hair" to add a crude, smug superiority over the whole business.

 

The problem was that it was too crude. I'm no fucking prude, but really, part of Betheny's problem these days is that she thinks she's above it all and can say what she likes - nope, that remark was a lil too smug and way too crude.

[ScoobieDoobs]

No, I think what the poster was going for was that Dorinda realized how the incident would look and addressed it and offered an explanation as quickly as she could in order to fend off the knee jerk "must be racist" comments. If she was genuinely racist, she wouldn't care or wouldn't consider it a faux pas.

 

 

Eh, I'm not buying that.  Hey, Dorinda could be racist & maybe that shitty-ass move was racially motivated.  I'm just saying it may very well not have been.  But Dorinda has a very big motivation to clear up what now looks very, very cloudy -- I mean her thinking behind making that mistake.  If she is indeed a racist, Satan Andy is gonna disassociate himself from her very quickly & possibly even boot her off the show.  

 

So what's it gonna be, Dorinda?  Are you a racist or just a loud-mouth, boorish, thoughtless asshole who disrespects people working in restaurants & treats them as if they're only there to be screamed at & serve your every whim?  Either way, hun, you're coming off like absolute shit.

 

Her being a racist is not a sure thing -- yet.  So I'm not overwhelmingly bothered by this mistaken identity -- yet.  What I thought was more disturbing was her story about giving a man in a wheelchair money merely cuz he was in a wheelchair.  If she really thought this story was charming & hilarious, then I'm totally done with her.  To me, it showed she's so eager to gloss over that she could be a racist, she's willing to tell a story of her being a thoughtless asshole & would prefer to be thought of that way.  OK then.  What other asshole friends have you got to give us, Moaner?

Edited April 23, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[sasha206]

No, I think what the poster was going for was that Dorinda realized how the incident would look and addressed it and offered an explanation as quickly as she could in order to fend off the knee jerk "must be racist" comments. If she was genuinely racist, she wouldn't care or wouldn't consider it a faux pas.

 

Thanks for the explanation.

 

However, there are people that say racially charged things that you'd think NO ONE would ever utter and then immediately apologize.  So I disagree that her offering up a quick explanation = not a racist.

 

That said, I don't know enough about her to make that leap.  However, watching that incident, I do believe that (1) she's tacky and obnoxious, and (2) on a subconscious level she didn't think he belonged in her "high class" world.  

 

Similarly, Kristin might not have tried to be overtly racist, but her using the word "ghetto" because they are leaving a house with arms full of stuff sure seems racially insensitive.  At best, an socioeconomic classism.

[KFC]

I read that a little differently.  B goes, oh Kelley is here?  A little producer driven drama.  I'll just stand over here until Luann leaves the group, get her to admit she's a snake and then I'll do this scene the way I want to do the scene.

 

And it worked!  Instead of some big RHOBH screaming drama.  B got her point across to L which is 'I see what you did here.'   B did not do the scene as written by the producers.  Kelley did not get her big moment in the spotlight.  I mean did we even see her after that?  I don't remember because I went blind watching S and R rubbing up on small boys.

 

Plus we were treated to the "that's a choice" snark.

 

Bitchy in a RL situation? Yeah, sure. But all the guys there were Bravo plants, and the HW knew it so I'm not gonna get worked up over the rudeness of the comment. Just the hilarity of the snark. Much like Moaner's success with the men. A. You've got a camera crew (as someone pointed out up above) and B. You know the men in attendance had to sign a waiver, so it's not like you're some anonymous cougar hottie garnering attention from all sorts of guys.

[Higgins]

Thank you. 

 

I do not recall "labeling" Dorinda a racist.

 

I agree Dorinda would have checked her coat at the door. I also think anyone working at a "classy" restaurant would not be allowed to walk around in just a shirt and tie. They wear jackets or uniforms (black ties). Dorinda would have known this if she frequented upscale restaurants. She would have also known you don't scream out "Oooh, you have oysters!" or "Yoo Hoo" staff. She is no society lady.

 

I'm a Black woman living in Manhattan. My husband is White. We've been to our share of upscale restaurants. Our coats are checked at the door - though in some cases we're given a choice to keep them - and one would never flagged down restaurant staff the way one would in a diner. (No shade, I like diners, but waitresses have sat in the diner booth with me while taking my order. Very different atmosphere.)

 

My husband has never been mistaken for a waiter, busboy, coat check...boy? I, on the other hand, have been mistaken for a waitress, hostess, escort and, when his mother is with us, a home care worker. In our luxury apartment building, I've been mistaken for his housekeeper and nanny (we have no children).

 

Yeah, Dorinda, it was the shirt.

 

In other news, I actually liked what Sonja and Ramona were wearing at the pick-up bar. The simple black dress looks good on them.

 

I'm happy for Luann and impressed by her confidence, but she seems different to me. I don't think I'd want to be her friend. That said, I am so glad she gave it to Ramona in a subtle, revenge-is-best-served-cold kind of way. That's the way to do it. Step back and let their lives unravel then go for the kill.

 

ETA: I hated that Kristen called it "ghetto" when they were all leaving Bethenny's house with swag. What the hell did that mean? Carole was the first to ask for a blender and had the gall, in her TH, to say she wanted the most expensive thing. It wasn't "Ghetto", it was "New York Housewife".

I work in in inpatient state psychiatric hospital as an RN. There is this "old" not evidence-based practice where medical staff must wear street clothes as to not make the patients feel like they are sick. I won't get into why this ancient (hyperbole) practice is not therapeutic and can even be dangerous but, I have been mistaken by other staff members as a patient. Most of our staff are African immigrants and they dress up. I am a white American who tends to wear cargo pants or jeans so to them, I looked like a patient. I wasn't offended, no harm was meant.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Much like Moaner's success with the men.

 

 

Producer-driven fake setup?  Really?  My, my, my, how shocking!  So billions of men were NOT actually chasing after 58-year-old Moaner?  Say it ain't so!  Oh, how I hate myself for admitting this (eh, not that much), but sometimes Satan Andy's cruel sense of humor really does crack me up!

[Higgins]

Ramona looks incredible. She is almost 60 and she looks like she is in her 40s. I want to know how.

[shoegal]

Ramona looks incredible. She is almost 60 and she looks like she is in her 40s. I want to know how.

Regular visits to the gym and the cosmetic surgeon/dermatologist.

[Higgins]

Yeah....but all of these women do that on these shows and she, in particular, looks more naturally preserved. Sonja too for that matter. I guess NYC cosmetic surgeons are more skilled or more conservative because the east coast ladies look so much better than the California ones with the exception of Eileen. She is a gorgeous beast (sorry Kim). 

Edited April 23, 2015 by Higgins

[sadie]

B doesn't bother me, most of what she says does make me chuckle, the rest I just ignore - it's escape television , I just want a few laughs. Maybe it's because B is snarky and my sense of humor tends to go that way.

On the bar scene I thnik B handled it pretty smoothly. Had someone done that to me I'm not sure I would have been as cool about it. She didn't make a scene, she waited for the one party inviter to come to her, she addressed it one on one in a fairly friendly way, got Lu to acknowledge it was kind of crappy of her, B accepted apology and joined the group with no fan fare. B does a lot of odd things but this wasn't one of them IMO.

[nexxie]

"Take a deep breath Bethenny." lol so funny

Bethenny and Ramona (and Sonja too) are the narcissists on this show. Every Bravo show has one, but three?!

[Trooper York]

I have been mistaken for staff many times in a bar or restaurant and I am now an old white guy. It has to do with your attitude and how you carry yourself. I always survey the bar and look around at my surroundings to scope out the crowd. Particularly the boisterous loudmouths. That is simply because I have been in joints that have been held up several times. But because I was watchful and noticed stuff that was  happening at the bar some people just assumed I worked there or owned the place and started asking me questions or started to complain about the staff.

 

If you re-watch the episode I think the gentleman's body language and how he was walking contributed to the confusion. He seemed to be hanging around the hostess table and then slowly walked into the bar area looking around much the same way I would do. Also he was a tall guy with a commanding presence and typical of someone who would be a manager or security in an upscale restaurant. 

 

Not to say that Dorinda is not a knucklehead. She it the typical self entitled East Side woman who thinks her shit don't stink. 

 

In other words........ the perfect Real Housewife of New York City!

[ryebread]

Yeah....but all of these women do that on these shows and she, in particular, looks more naturally preserved. Sonja too for that matter. I guess NYC cosmetic surgeons are more skilled or more conservative because the east coast ladies look so much better than the California ones with the exception of Eileen. She is a gorgeous beast (sorry Kim). 

 

I think Ramona was probably happy and fulfilled for many years in her marriage and with her life.  That can go a long way toward someone looking well.  I do think she was starting to get a little boozy looking when Mario's cheating was so public. Fortunately she decided to take the other route and get healthier - body and spirit (hopefully) - than go the other way which is spiraling down the toilet.

 

 

Regular visits to the gym and the cosmetic surgeon/dermatologist.

 

In addition, I think she probably backed off on the wine consumption.  She was starting to get that bloat.  Also, there's so much more emphasis in the past couple years on clean eating.  I'll bet she jumped on that band wagon right quick especially when she found herself dating again.

[slade3]

 

I bought a camisole, and it's fantastic! You don't feel strangled, like you do with Spanx.

 

 

I wish I'd read this before I bought Spanx for the first time ever just a week ago! Just ordered a Yummie camisole and shorts. Thanks for the tip!

[Giselle]

Yeah....but all of these women do that on these shows and she, in particular, looks more naturally preserved. Sonja too for that matter. I guess NYC cosmetic surgeons are more skilled or more conservative because the east coast ladies look so much better than the California ones with the exception of Eileen. She is a gorgeous beast (sorry Kim). 

 

I remember reading somewher that Jackie Onassis at one point wanted a face lift and her Dr. said no she wasn't ready for one yet, He would advise her when it was needed. When she did have work done it was very subtle. She looked natural.

[slade3]

I work in in inpatient state psychiatric hospital as an RN. There is this "old" not evidence-based practice where medical staff must wear street clothes as to not make the patients feel like they are sick. I won't get into why this ancient (hyperbole) practice is not therapeutic and can even be dangerous but, I have been mistaken by other staff members as a patient. Most of our staff are African immigrants and they dress up. I am a white American who tends to wear cargo pants or jeans so to them, I looked like a patient. I wasn't offended, no harm was meant.

I understand your point, but I just don't see the comparison. There is a very specific reason your well-dressed African immigrant coworkers mistake you for a patient. They dress carefully for work and you do not. I am dressed as well as my fellow restaurant goers and Upper East Side neighbors. I am not dressed like a Target employee and I am not casually dressed in my place of work where everyone else is dressed well. If I walk into a restaurant wearing cargo pants or jeans while all around me, including my husband and mother-in-law, are wearing suits and dresses, I would agree that I'd likely be mistaken for a worker. I can honestly say I've never been the most casually dressed person at the restaurants we frequent, but I'm often mistaken for the help while the spoiled twentysomething in the shorts and baseball cap at the next table is treated like royalty.

 

My apologies for going off-topic but the show could have easily edited out that Dorinda scene, but they clearly wanted us to discuss it.

[Giselle]

Oh I wasn't confused by it at all - she was obviously snarking on the idea of women getting together and bonding over doing their hair and nails and went with "braiding their pussy hair" to add a crude, smug superiority over the whole business.

 

The problem was that it was too crude. I'm no fucking prude, but really, part of Betheny's problem these days is that she thinks she's above it all and can say what she likes - nope, that remark was a lil too smug and way too crude.

 You said it best.

[OhGromit]

I'm not sure what a "racist" is, but I do know racist behavior when I see it. I have no clue what Dorinda is like 99% of the time, but I hae no doubt that in that moment, she saw a black man and thought "staff" because of whatever blackness signified to her in that setting.

 

Totally agree.  This is what racism looks like.  The author of the book Blink talks in detail about how racist actions happen-- they happen in the blink of an eye, so to speak, based on our conscious and unconscious assumptions.  We got a glimpse of Dorinda's unconscious assumptions here.  Honestly, I thought that even after she realized her mistake that she should have been more apologetic to the guy; she was a little dismissive, in my view, saying "thank you" and turning from him.  She may have been embarrassed, but he was so gracious and she could have shown a little more empathy in that moment, too.  Says I.  

 

These little moments matter, you know?, because they inflict wounds, even if they're small ones.  It's these little wounds we inflict out of our deeply held-- and yes both conscious and unconscious-- beliefs and assumptions, that cause damage all the time.  So while I don't mean to exaggerate the situation and call Dorinda the worst person in the world, etc., etc., but I do feel like it's one of those moments we could all use to take note, maybe take it as a moment to reflect on what we might have assumed and why, and improve ourselves if we see that we could use a little improving.  We all have assumptions, beliefs, deeply held ones we might not be aware of, and we saw Dorinda act on hers, and it was uncomfortable, and I felt bad for that guy.  

[Higgins]

I understand your point, but I just don't see the comparison. There is a very specific reason your well-dressed African immigrant coworkers mistake you for a patient. They dress carefully for work and you do not. I am dressed as well as my fellow restaurant goers and Upper East Side neighbors. I am not dressed like a Target employee and I am not casually dressed in my place of work where everyone else is dressed well. If I walk into a restaurant wearing cargo pants or jeans while all around me, including my husband and mother-in-law, are wearing suits and dresses, I would agree that I'd likely be mistaken for a worker. I can honestly say I've never been the most casually dressed person at the restaurants we frequent, but I'm often mistaken for the help while the spoiled twentysomething in the shorts and baseball cap at the next table is treated like royalty.

 

My apologies for going off-topic but the show could have easily edited out that Dorinda scene, but they clearly wanted us to discuss it.

 I just don't see that happening in my community. We are very integrated middle class and the idea that because you are black, you must be the help, is so outdated that It would never cross my mind as a middle aged white woman and never has in my 46 years. I don't  discount your experience but, it blows my mind that people in NYC, the liberal bastion, would be so consistently backward.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Higgins

[SCS]

Nah, I don't think it's jealousy.  But I think B is threatened (or maybe challenged) by Heather.  Look, B pretty much dismisses the rest of 'em as crazy or useless or ridiculous.  And Carole?  She's non-threatening & seems subservient to B.  Who knows why.

 

 

I've often wondered about this too.  There has gotta be some reason she's not trolling around looking for another rich old guy to marry.  But what is it?

I find Sonja's actions to reek of desperation to convince us of how vibrant, how hot, how sexy she is . We know how much she talks about being a cougar, loves the young 'uns etc etc but we don't know how much resolution her little antics generate despite her babble. On occasion Sonja's given the vibe that she actually prefers the lady pond. If so, what advantages could she offer an established rich old coot? Lineage? I doubt being a Tremont has a huge mythology. Ability to be a good hostess? Could she stay off the sauce long enough or would she start pulling off her clothes and performing her burlesque routine ? Fab sex? Not if she likes the ladies.

An older rich guy might be ok with a bed-free partner that is young and hot (for whatever cache that might award him in NY circles) but I'm not sure someone with Sonja's rep ( or urban myth per Dorinda) would be an asset.

[SCS]

If Brandi said that., oh, the outrage at her crude mouth.

So very true -- followed by descriptions of the various items that Brandi carries in her uterus because she's SUCH a ho-bag, and horror at the fact that she let her son pee on Adrienne's lawn and didn't leap up with her broken ankle to tuck his dong of doom away.

Edit: trimmed quote tree

Edited April 23, 2015 by steelcitysister

[Duke2801]

I haven't liked Bethenny this season (all of 3 episodes), but I think she handled the brunch well. I would not be on speaking terms with those women if they came into my house and, after fifteen minutes, said they were off to Ramona's (obviously) made-up brunch, created just to make sure no one went to Bethenny's house, and then had the nerve to ask for blenders before they left. I mean, they were all shouting out which goodies they wanted like they were at a Costco auction house.

 

It's possible they stayed at Bethenny's longer than we were led to believe, and I did hear Luann say "That was delicious" at one point, but I wasn't sure if she meant her drink or the mini quiche/omelette(?). But I admit, I've canceled New Year's Eve parties at my place when most of my guests admitted I was going to be a "first stop". That always means they are giving you ten minutes to nosh before they move on. These ladies didn't even have the decency to tell anyone whether they were showing up and Bethenny put out a nice spread.

 

Well obviously they were at Bethenny's longer than we were "shown."  I mean, she has her hair up in a ponytail when the doorbell "supposedly" rings, and then is shown with it down and done like 15 seconds later while they are there.  So clearly there is Bravo editing magic going on.  And why should Bethenny be upset that they were going to Ramona's afterwards?  Other than Lu, she barely knows these women.

 

And to be fair, Bethenny seemed to be insisting that they take things.  I don't think they would have just been randomly mooching SkinnyGirl items on their way out the door. 

[SCS]

Dorinda's scene immediately reminded me of the late, great, brilliant John Hope Franklin who was hosting a party at the exclusive Cosmos Club here in DC. "I went down the grand staircase - it is a grand staircase - and at the bottom this white woman saw me and said, 'Here' and handed me her coat check, saying, 'Go get my coat.' I told her that if she presented that check to a uniformed attendant, and all the club's attendants were uniformed, perhaps she would get her coat. And I walked away."

He was 80 years old at the time and set to receive the medal of freedom from President Clinton the next day. Oh but I'm sure it was just the white shirt and tie.

Wheee, your post took me back to a scene from "Designing Women", the greatest sitcom of all time (opinion as fact!! Banned!!): Anthony (the brilliant Meshach Taylor) attends an event at Atlanta's most exclusive and restricted country club and a member hands him some car keys (Porsche I think) with instructions to park it. Anthony graciously does so --in the swimming pool.

[Higgins]

Visit us here. On the Upper East Side. And tell my neighbors of your enlightenment. You will find that once you move between East 60th Street and East 90th. it is a different world. True New Yorkers talk about it all the time. When my husband and I were looking for our first place to buy, we were taken to a building on East 87th Street. Some residents stopped in their tracks and stared at us as we entered the building. I know another interracial couple who finally left the Upper East Side after having a child because it was so racist and unwelcoming, they didn't want her to grow up here. Take a look at a voting map for our latest mayoral race and you will see the pockets of Republicans in NYC are here (and Staten Island). You can also Google the co-op building somewhere in the 70s that only approves Republicans. Born and raised here, so it's home, but people who don't know shit about NYC...don't know shit about NYC.

 

And this is really all that needed to be said. I'm now sorry I went on and on trying to make a point. Thanks for sharing that,

That's sucks, and I'm sure very hurtful. The suburbs are different, at least here in DC. I wonder if disparate socioeconomic factors that exist in cities play into that type of passive racism. In the suburb,s we have similar levels of economic advantages due to the way the housing market is. In any event, it's absurd that this is still prevalent.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Higgins

[AnnA]

Sooo glad the girls from my hometown are back and that BH is over.. ....

 

I'm one of the few who's actually enjoying Bethenny's return. She was always my favorite HoWife with her witticisms (although she hasn't been really bringing them this year). 

 

I stopped watching RHONY when Bethenny left and almost forgot how much I enjoy the NY show.   

 

Since I'm a native New Yorker, I'm the most comfortable with the NY show.

 

For me the jury is still out on the newbies but I am glad to have Bethenny, Ramona, Luann and Sonja back.

[Sincerely Yours]

Visit us here. On the Upper East Side. And tell my neighbors of your enlightenment. You will find that once you move between East 60th Street and East 90th. it is a different world. True New Yorkers talk about it all the time. When my husband and I were looking for our first place to buy, we were taken to a building on East 87th Street. Some residents stopped in their tracks and stared at us as we entered the building. I know another interracial couple who finally left the Upper East Side after having a child because it was so racist and unwelcoming, they didn't want her to grow up here. Take a look at a voting map for our latest mayoral race and you will see the pockets of Republicans in NYC are here (and Staten Island). You can also Google the co-op building somewhere in the 70s that only approves Republicans. Born and raised here, so it's home, but people who don't know shit about NYC...don't know shit about NYC.

 

And this is really all that needed to be said. I'm now sorry I went on and on trying to make a point. Thanks for sharing that,

I'm from NYC, born and raised and I'm with Higgins with regards to the idea being so outdated it wouldn't cross my mind especially in a place that's so integrated as NY. I spent a lot of time in the upper east side too. That's why I'm leaning more towards it being more of a elitist move than racist but obviously that would be a hard conclusion to come to either. <shrug>

Edited April 23, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[Sampson]

The problem between Ramona and Beth over brunch was clearly started by Beth. Ramona was in the middle of saying that she was inviting everyone to brunch when Beth interrupted her with "what does everyone really want to do?" Beth rapidly continued throwing out ideas and then inviting people to her own place before they brunch elsewhere while Ramona sat there wide mouthed until she realized she was even losing her houseguest Sonja to Beth's invitation. Then Ramona started that whole etiquette conversation.

 

Ramona should have stopped Beth with a simple, excuse me but I've already made plans for a brunch for us all.

 

Here is a link to the conversation.

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-7/episode-702/videos?clip=2857803

[motorcitymom65]

That's sucks, and I'm sure very hurtful. The suburbs are different, at least here in DC. I wonder if disparate socioeconomic factors that exist in cities play into that type of passive racism. In the suburb,s we have similar levels of economic advantages due to the way the housing market is. In any event, it's absurd that this is still prevalent.

It's interesting about the suburbs. I moved to a Detroit suburb over a dozen years ago. Prior to that I had lived my life in parts of the country where racism is something that still very much exists (places like Oklahoma - my apologies to the folks there who feel differently). My favorite thing about this part of the country immediatley was the diversity. It was something I had never experienced before. What has been so shocking to me is that lots of people I know are still racist. As a white woman who has always believed there is simply nothing more horrible than a racist, I thought I would see so much less of it here. There is less, but wow does it still exist. By people who live in my same community, send their kids to the same schools, shop at the same stores. So many of them say racist things that amaze. My husband and I often leave a dinner in shock at some of the things that educated, supposedly enlightened people say in the warm embrace of other folks who look just like they do and I assume they believe think just like they do. Keep in mind, they don't think they are racist, but the things they say most definately are.

Regarding Dorinda, what she said rubbed me the wrong way. I don't know what her intent was, but I didn't like it. I won't call it racist, because that is a tough label and I would need to see more. More than almost anything I hated the way she was calling him over to her, as if she was too busy/rich/entitled to take care of something like this herself. Do the folks who check coats generally come to the table to do it? It was just incredibly rude. Does anyone else remember the scene with her daughter in the first episode? They were talking about returning that bag. Dorinda asked her daughter to come with her, and she said she would as long as Dorinda didn't make a scene. She said that a person couldn't just throw a fit and demand to get their way. Dorinda said "oh yes you can". At the time it made me think that Dorinda must have a habit of being demanding and nasty to service providers. The deal in the restaurant seemed to further call this out. I'm still willing to give her a chance because there are other things about her I like, but I am giving her the side-eye at this point.

[howivesforever]

I'm from NYC, born and raised and I'm with Higgins with regards to the idea being so outdated it wouldn't cross my mind especially in a place that's so integrated as NY. I spent a lot of time in the upper east side too. That's why I'm leaning more towards it being more of a elitist move than racist but obviously that would be a hard conclusion to come to either. <shrug>

I think there is enough real racism in society that we certainty don't need to lablel this woman as being racist off of her thinking the man worked at the restaurant. In my opinion it is unfair to imply she was being racist from that one scene. We do not know enough about Dorinda to go there yet.

[Trooper York]

Bethenny has a dilemma this season. Which faction will she join? Who will she film with? Who can she dominate and control and browbeat into kissing her ass the way she manipulates all of her relationships.

 

She doesn't want any part of the Ramona/Sonja/Dorinda group. In fact it is a plausible theory that Dorinda was brought in to film with Ramona so Sonja could split off to film with Bethenny. That was probably what was behind the invitation for Sonja to go to brunch in this episode. Satan Andy wanted to split off Sonja so Bethenny would have a foil to film with. If you look up useful idiot in the dictionary you will find Sonja's photo. Bethenny can safely mock her and Sonja will not know or care as long as she can sponge off of her in the manner to which she has become accustomed. 

 

Bethenny doesn't trust Luann. For good reason. She had Kelly show up randomly like a stray prescription drug tablet in Kim RIchards purse.

 

The Heather/Carole/Kristin group is also problematic. The word on the street (TM Aviva) is that Bethenny and Carole have formed a warm friendship over not eating, vomiting if they do  and making bad dating choices. That leaves Heather with Kristin which has to piss her off. It is  rumored that Bethenny has it in for Kristin which is understandable because she is younger and attractive and makes Bethenny look like the skeletal foul mouthed bitch that we have all come to know these past few years.

 

Let the games begin!

Edited April 23, 2015 by Trooper York

[slade3]

That's sucks, and I'm sure very hurtful. The suburbs are different, at least here in DC. I wonder if disparate socioeconomic factors that exist in cities play into that type of passive racism. In the suburb,s we have similar levels of economic advantages due to the way the housing market is. In any event, it's absurd that this is still prevalent.

We know a gay couple who bought a very expensive condo in Brooklyn. They're both white men. They told us they are treated like aliens by their young, hipster neighbors, which has made home life uncomfortable. What they determined was most of their neighbors were born in other states and unused to living next door to actual gay people. Gay men who live together as a couple. That made me sad. It's not just NY, it's Brooklyn! Where I was born and raised. This is probably because of socioeconomic factors, as you say, since one may feel very comfortable in Williamsburg, Brooklyn or the East Village, but unwelcome in DUMBO Brooklyn or the Upper East Side. I don't understand the Upper East Side but it's close to our work and we feel safe and that is what has to matter. 

 

We visit DC often, stay in Georgetown and always love it. It's a very different place from NYC, in my opinion. I almost feel at times that New Yorkers feel as if they don't have to work at "it" anymore and we're just coasting on our reputations.

 

ETA: I should also point out, again, that I never "labeled" Dorinda racist, but believe she did call that man over because he's Black. "Racism" was initially used, I believe, by people who were arguing we shouldn't call her racist. Believing she did a thing because he is Black and labeling her racist are two different things. We can't shut people down because they believe a certain action was taken because they are black, gay, a woman, Jewish, by saying "Oh, you can't call him racist/homophobic/sexist/anti-Semitic! That isn't fair!"

Edited April 23, 2015 by slade3

[JenE4]

I also thought Dorinda's actions were racist. It wasn't just trying to flag down the one African American man as he walked by, but by the way she was then pawing at him and saying, "It's the SHIRT! It's the SHIRT!" And then continuing to tell us it's the shirt in her talking head. THAT'S what made it seem abhorrant and racist to me. If it wasn't racist, I think a calm, "Oh, my apologies! I thought you had on the same white shirt as the waiters" would have been appropriate and 100% just a mix up. But it was like, oh, fuck, that was prejudiced so let me overcompensate to "prove" that it wasn't! She was physically overcompensating like, see, I can touch a black person, when she had no right to be putting her hands on anyone like that. And the way she was saying, "It's the SHIRT! It's the SHIRT!" was obviously to point out that it isn't your SKIN! It's like she was trying way to hard to NOT be racist--because she WAS racist, and she knew it!

[archer1267]

Ability to be a good hostess? Could she stay off the sauce long enough or would she start pulling off her clothes and performing her burlesque routine?

 

 

I think it was in S5 when Sonja visited Ramona in Ramona's office to pick her brains about starting her own business. (Ramona had to provide her with a notebook so she could write things down.) Sonja was talking about party planning and somehow veered from throwing kids' parties to parties where she might be not just the planner but also the entertainment. I remember Ramona trying to diplomatically talk her down by saying "you shouldn't do both" but it was clear from her face and body language that she thought it was a ludicrous idea. 

 

After Sonja's tackling of the Dreschers' anniversary party, she was SO not ready for prime time, but if her web site's to be believed, it's still an ongoing business. While she seems to take good care of the people who visit her for teas and such, there's a difference between hosting a small group of women in your home vs. throwing a party in an actual venue with dozens of guests. I remember there being little food, no silverware, etc. It was just an embarrassment. And the musical entertainer was bizarre.

 

There's got to be SOMETHING our Sonja can do to get out of the hole. Marrying well a second time doesn't seem to be in the cards, nor does having a focused business. Maybe her daughter will be successful and will take care of her mom?

[Trooper York]

It could be that Dorinda is just stupid and self entitled and not racist.

 

Time will tell.

[sasha206]

Even if I were to give Dorinda a break and buy her "it was the shirt" assertion, her rudeness in general bugged the crap out of me. I really hate when someone beckons an employee in a restaurant from across the room especially to check her coat!  She's sitting in a big freaking booth.  It wasn't an emergency.  Wait for your server and ask politely.  I also thought her grabbing the phone from her boyfriend was obnoxious too.

Edited April 23, 2015 by sasha206

[IKnowRight]

I agree with the comments that think Dorinda was acting boorish.

I recall at the beginning of this season commenting here that I thought Dorinda was rough around the edges. Lots of posters were questioning my comment. Geeshhh, I feel vindicated now!! Everyone has a right to their own opinion and I try not to question others opinions!

There was just something off to me about her. I guess for me it was her eye makeup and obvious dark roots?

I do think she was presumptious with the guy and the suit & tie, I don't like to assume one incident will define Dorinda as a racist. Maybe she thought he was a host/owner walking around checking to see if the patrons needed anything or to welcome them to the restaurant. I feel I would have to be there to get a feel for the atmosphere to see what made her assume he could help her. With that said, coat checks are usually at the entrance.

Speaking of boorish, what is with Bethenny and her crude chit chat? Put the cock in cocktail and the braiding? That's gross B. Yes, we know you don't like Kelly, but you were being rude B. I don't dislike B, but she is making it hard to like her so far this season.

I thought the ladies were looking desperate in the bar. At least Ramona appeared to be looking out for men closer to her age not for just a hook up.

Edited April 23, 2015 by IKnowRight