S30: Ponderosa

[Wings]

I am beginning to feel vindicated!  I saw this self absorbed Shirin during the Will incident and posted about it.  I did not get many who agreed at the time!  

[ellie2205]

I liked Tyler in Ponderosa about 1000x better than I liked him on any episode.  I think he really did loosen up a bit and I don't think he's hurting the Ponderosa vibe too much.  There have been players who have insisted on going through every single move that they made and didn't make and how they brought them to where they are (or worse, every move the other players at Ponderosa made) and I think that's what would really kill the vibe that Hali, Jenn and Joe would prefer.  (I don't include Shirin there, because I think she would love to go over every move of the game from day 1 ... Imagine if Shirin and Max had both made it to Ponderosa?!)

 

By the way, I imagine they probably are still discussing the game, but we're not being shown the contentious talks that I've seen on past Ponderosas, which is a relief to me.

 

She also seems to think she is some kind of Dr. Phil, whose insights into life will lead to major breakthroughs for other less enlightened ones.  Comically ironic, considering how unaware she was of herself and her actions on the island this season.  More and more indications of how and why she pissed off so many players this season. 

 

So, Shirrin tells Tyler there are things he probably doesn't know about himself that she could tell him about and he could work on those things but if he doesn't come to her then he must not want to grow. I would hate having her for a boss.

I could give Shirrin a little feedback, if she wants to learn about herself and grow.

 

Yes and yes.  I think we all know people like Shirin ... whom I don't mind, objectively, but I don't think I could be friends with.  (I didn't comment much during the Will/Shirin debacle for this reason.  I'm definitely on her side and think Will was so completely out of line, but ... there are a lot of "buts" that I don't want to get into :)  There are so many times where I'm thinking, Shirin, if you could just keep quiet this once, then ___ wouldn't pick on you, or ___ wouldn't happen, or you wouldn't get in an embarrassing opposite-of-bomb-excitement gesture battle with Jeff.

 

But then I realize that's just who she is, and why she and I are inherently different people, and why she probably rubs a lot of people the wrong way.  To me, she's not necessarily a bad person, I just ... probably wouldn't hang out with her too much.

[Sassenach]

Shirin may indeed have valuable insights to offer to Tyler.  What she fails to realize, however, is that you have to first be in a position of mutual respect and trust in order to deliver such insights effectively.  Constant haranguing is not an effective means of building a good relationship with others.

 

[Wings]

Shirin may indeed have valuable insights to offer to Tyler.  What she fails to realize, however, is that you have to first be in a position of mutual respect and trust in order to deliver such insights effectively.  Constant haranguing is not an effective means of building a good relationship with others.

 

And she would have to be willing to take a hard look at her own behavior. 

[ProfCrash]

I'll do my best not to beat the dead horse but Shirin is a victim. First of her father and now of Will's. You could argue that Dan crossed a boundary pretty hard core as well but I don't think his bullying was the same level of Will's verbal abuse. We are seeing what happened in the matter of days spread out over a matter of weeks. For us it is "Enough already" for Shirin the attack happened six days ago, maybe eight days ago? She is still stinging from the attack and Tyler was the one who fanned the flames and went to get Shirin so that Will could dig into her. So she is pretty seriously hurt. Is she handling it the best? Nope. Is that a surprise? Nope. Are the others allowed to be annoyed with her and tell her that? Yup. Are they allowed to tell her she is unloved and has no soul? Hell no.

 

I get that she is stuck on what happened in her childhood. Her father verbally and physically abused her. That leaves some pretty damn huge scars. She was 29 when she was playing and does not seem to have much of a filter. I can see where it would be hard and boring for other people to hear about it. I get that, but I am not surprised that it is such a huge part of her life. Heck, I needed to work with a shrink to deal with the impact of learning disabilities and ADHD and how my teachers wrote me off. I wasn't abused or bullied as a kid and I still struggle with the stupid things people said to me when I was six. So yeah, I'll cut Shirin some slack.

 

I have said before and will say it again, Shirin needs some more counseling in order to deal with what happened to her. I don't think I would be able to hang out with her very much but I don't hold it against her. I would be able to walk away and not go crazy. I get how she would drive people crazy. And all of that combined still makes Will a raging asshole who is not a nice person because no matter how much someone drives you crazy you do not say the awful things that Will did.

 

You can call it constant haranguing right now, I call it fresh wounds from some one who was just victimized and is badly hurt. Is she handeling the best? Nope. Am I surprised based on what we saw from Shirin? Nope. I will point out that it sounds like Shirin has postive things to say about everyone who made the merge except Will and Dan. That is based on her interviews. She was hurt, she said she was hurt, and then it sounds like she let it go.

 

In summary. She is allowed to be pissed and confront the people who sat there and let her be verbally abused. They are allowed to tell her enough and walk away. What is playing out as weeks of whatever to us occurred in less then two weeks in real life so it makes sense that there would be raw feelings all around.

[Wings]

It is no one's responsibility to take care of Shirin or anyone else, especially in Survivor where every move you make can impact your game.  They cast assholes sometimes.  Be prepared to out wit them.  

Edited May 7, 2015 by wings707

[Special K]

Wow, that video made me totally flip on two people:  I liked Tyler a lot more (actually now hope he gets another go at it), and I though Shirin was absolutely delusional.  He just got voted out of the game, and she feels she has the right or the authority to tell him what his personal/psychological problems are?  The hell!?!  And I've been defending her all along...

 

Also on his gameplay;  "Tyler was his own worst enemy."  Pot, meet kettle.   (Of course you could probably make that statement about every single Survivor since time began.)

[ramble]

ProfCrash I'd triple like your post if I could. I think there is no doubt that Shirin would be difficult to be around, but I also think she's still working through an attack that reopened horrible wounds. I'm also fully convinced that she is being asked about it continuously & in a variety of ways during her THs. I imagine Tyler was quizzed about it as well. Shirin may be talking about it too much for her fellow Ponderosa guests, but I feel quite sure it's being encouraged & healthily fed by production.

[ProfCrash]

I have not said that I liked how Shirin played the game. I will say that Shirin was a victim in the game and I do not think that that fact should be lost simply because we find Shirin annoying.  As annoying as she was, she did not deserve to be treated the way she was. She did not deserve to be attacked in the manner that she was. It is understandable that she is upset with the people who attacked her and disappointed/upset with the people who allowed her to be attacked.

 

Trying to diminish those facts because Shirin is annoying is not something that I am comfortable looking past.

 

ETA: I would say that confronting the people who behaved badly or allowed the bad behavior to occur is part of taking care of yourself. Telling them how you feel and how their actions affected you is part of taking back your power after you have been victimized. Shirin should be telling people how their actions affected her. They can choose to listen or not, that is on them, but I have no problem with Shirin confronting them. The timing of it needs work but this happened in the very recent past and she is very hurt and she is letting the people who were involved know. I have no problem with that.

 

I watched the video and I thought that they both handled it fine. Shirin said what she did, Tyler told her to chill. Shirin chilled. I thought they were both respectful. Tyler's interview indicates that he understands Shirin's hurt and that he able to walk away politely. And all that is well and good. I would say that Shirin's interview on what happened shows me the same division that I have seen on the boards. For some folks it was a part of the game and deal with it for others it was a massive step outside of the game and it should not have happened. Both opinions are valid and pretty strongly held.

Edited May 7, 2015 by ProfCrash

[loki567]

I will say that Shirin was a victim in the game and I do not think that that fact should be lost simply because we find Shirin annoying.

 

 

Can we really describe someone as a victim in a game because they got into a fight once? These Ponderosa videos and exit interviews are starting to paint a fuller picture for me and I don't think Shirin got it that bad. What Will said was terrible, but generally how everyone speaks of Will, I don't buy that he was constantly on her. I think he exploded on her once and they fought again at Tribal. And we saw a scene of Dan being jerky to her about her game, that's not bullying. We also saw him console her after the fight with Will, it was bullshit but I'm willing to bet he'd saved most of his jerky behavior for his confessionals. 

 

And also something to remember, Max said in his interviews that he and Shirin arranged the fight with Joaquin, specifically to keep him at the bottom of the tribe. 

[ProfCrash]

When the fight involved verbal abuse then yes we can describe that person as a victim in the game. Will verbally abused Shirin. I don't care if it happened once in the game, it wouldn't matter if a player hit a player that it only happened once. We would still say it was a physical assault.

 

Shirin did not appear to fall apart, she looked kind of shocked/spaced out during it and she did appear to make some comments, but that means that she handled the attack as best as she could. Unfortunately for her, she had experience with how to respond.

 

Tyler's comment is that it looked like Shirin had it under control and was fine. He did not know what was happening internally and there is no way for him to know that. His explination for his decision to not get involved is perfectly fine. He thought Shirin was ok.

 

Shirin was not ok but she couldn't say that. She couldn't say that because she knows they are playing a game. She couldn't say that because she knew if she appeared weak then things would get worse. When she did say she wasn't ok, she was met with Will's saying she playing the victim and crickets from everyone else.

 

They both handled it as best as the could in the moment. Shirin needs to listen to Tyler and understand where he was. And yes, she could educate him on why what he saw might have looked like she was ok but she really wasn't and in the future he should think about stepping in. I actually think that Tyler would have stepped in outside the game but saw it as a game advantage.

 

And this is my problem with Survivor allowing this type of crap to happen. By handling it as a "game" thing Survivor sends a signal that there are times and places were it is OK for someone to be verbally assaulted. There is no time and place where Will's actions were ok. None what so ever. I don't care that Shirin was annoying. I don't care. Will verbally assaulted Shirin. He was wrong.

 

The people who said nothing were wrong. There actions are more understandable because they had to try and read the situation and Shirin's response and they were thinking in context of the game and not normal societal behavior. I would also point out that Shirin has been very clear in her interviews that Mike was the first person to step in and stop such an assault in her life. And I think that is because many of us look the other way when we see bullying and verbal abuse. We all know what physical attacks look like but we can try and find a way to ignore verbal attacks/abuse.

[BigRedCheese]

I agree that as a viewer, this Ponderosa video isn't fun to watch, but after what she went through, and Tyler's role in it, I don't blame her at all.

[AZChristian]

Here’s my 2 cents.

 

First off:  If Tyler lost 26 pounds while out there, why were his pants so tight when he was walking toward the medical area to be weighed in? 

 

On a more serious note, I really liked Tyler’s Ponderosa video.  It was insightful as to what a strong person Tyler is.  He was able to objectify his time on Survivor as an experience, and is taking something important from it – more appreciation for his wife.  I think that’s cool.

 

Now . . . Shirin.  I love Shirin.  She and I share the trauma of an abusive childhood.  I’m a lot older than Shirin, and have had more time to work through it.  During several stages of trying to heal (therapy), I’ve had to work through things like fear, anger, aggressiveness used as a defense mechanism, etc.  My heart tells me that Shirin is still working on things.  So I cut her a lot of slack.

 

I look back on some of the things I’ve done (nothing illegal, and never running around in public without bottoms) and realize that some of it probably didn’t reflect well on me.  Most of that happened before I finally let go and let myself be who I wanted to be, rather than the “you’ll never amount to anything” person I was raised to be.  I was over-compensating and hadn’t learned to temper my behavior or read signals from others. 

 

Other than my marriage, it has not been easy for me to maintain close relationships.  I’m still – at 68 – a little afraid of being hurt or abandoned.  The self esteem that should become a part of each healthy adult is supposed to be developed during our formative years, and is supposed to be learned from our interaction with our parents or those who take care of us as children.  If that doesn’t happen, it’s pretty hard to play “catch up” later in life.  Not impossible – but difficult.

 

I understand where Shirin is coming from.  This weekend is Mother’s Day.  I go to church every Sunday . . . but not on Mother’s Day.  And I will be closing my Facebook newsfeed because every one of those loving “Mother” posts is still like a dagger in my heart.  I have grown past the pain, and I’m a pretty cool person.  But the scars are still there – they always will be – and watching others honor their mothers is like ripping off scabs to me, no matter how much I rejoice with my friends who have had good mothers whom they love.

 

Honestly, if you have not experienced the unique pain of abuse from a parent – whether it be emotional, sexual, or physical – please be gentle in your judging of those of us who have. 

 

Thanks.  I am now stepping back down from my soapbox. 

[ProfCrash]

I agree that as a viewer, this Ponderosa video isn't fun to watch, but after what she went through, and Tyler's role in it, I don't blame her at all.

Maybe we all benefit from being uncomfortable because it gives about 1% the level of discomfort that victims of abuse feel.

 

Shirin probably should not have been cast. If her scars from her childhood are as raw as it sounds like they were, she should not have been case. Just like Brandon should not have been cast. Her casting has led to a long conversation about abuse, what it is, what it looks like, and responses to it which is a good thing.

 

We are all going to have to adjust that this is going to be a recurring theme in Ponderosa and at the Reunion. What happened happened. The emotions are raw, especially for Shirin.

 

And maybe it is good for people to see the raw, lingering pain that comes from abuse. Maybe it will open our eyes to the damage that words can do. Or we can complain that it has ruined the fun of watching a TV show.

[loki567]

When the fight involved verbal abuse then yes we can describe that person as a victim in the game. Will verbally abused Shirin. I don't care if it happened once in the game, it wouldn't matter if a player hit a player that it only happened once. We would still say it was a physical assault.

Shirin did not appear to fall apart, she looked kind of shocked/spaced out during it and she did appear to make some comments, but that means that she handled the attack as best as she could.

 

 

Didn't answer my point about the fact that Max, Shirin's good friend, said that he and Shirin provoked a verbal altercation with Joaquin for game reasons. 

 

Secret scenes establish that Shirin didn't, "handle the attack as best as she couldn't," that Mike tried to get her away, that she went back and got into with Will for a long period of time and gave as good as she got.  

[ByaNose]

Tyler showed so much personality at Ponderosa which I much preferred. On the island he seemed so soft spoken & quiet. He did mention that he needed to tone it down with the lager personalities such as Rodney, Will & Dan. That said, who is to say if he would lasted as long or not if he was his fun self in the game. Also, Sherinn did annoy me during Tyler's video. Although, when she said Tyler could come to her when he is ready to learn more about himself I rolled my eyes. No offense but she is the last person I would go to. I'm sure she is very nice but she is annoying as heck and she unfortunately has her own personal issues to deal with before diagnosing other people with the their "problems".

Edited May 7, 2015 by ByaNose

[BigRedCheese]

I don't agree that she shouldn't have been cast, these people have hours and hours of down time, and a lot comes up, so she discussed her family situation. If there's people that shouldn't be cast, it's somebody like Will that hears that, and decides to use it against somebody. Did Shirin give Will as good as she got? Good Lord I hope so, when somebody starts going at you in such a personal way, they would be stupid to think that they won't hear some personal insults back.

[loki567]

Good Lord I hope so, when somebody starts going at you in such a personal way, they would be stupid to think that they won't hear some personal insults back.

 

 

 

Don't disagree, what I was disagreeing with the idea that Shirin was in a fragile place. And I'm curious about the Will/Shirin dynamic. Dan said she called Will a fat piece of shit during the argument. This along with her, "having more room in the shelter," comment when she was voting him off. So even though I say what Will said was terrible no matter the context, I wonder how bad the Will and Shirin relationship got before that fight broke out. I don't think it was as one-sided as the edit was making it. 

[ProfCrash]

She shouldn't have been cast because she is too emotionally vulnerable to be playing the game. That is my opinion. She was not in a good psychological place to play this game.

 

As to your point about Max and Joaquin, if you have read my posts on Shirin's game play I have flat out said that she was poking at people and have used the Joaquin scene as an example.

 

I am not saying that Shrin played a great game. I am not saying that Shirin didn't make her own mistakes. I have never said that. I am right now focused on the attack that Will launched. It cannot be justified because Shirin played a poor social game and is annoying and poked at Joaquin. Asking Joaquin why he didn't like her is no where near telling him he has no soul. Questioning his reasons for not liking her is no where near telling him that no one loves him. I am saying that Will, who was not there for the Joaquin stupidity and only knew Shirin after the merge when her behavior appeared to have been toned down, verbally abused Shirin.

 

I am saying that no matter how annoying a person is, you do not verbally attack someone. We would not tolerate a physical attack. We should not tolerate verbal attacks. There is a difference between an argument that gets loud and personally attacking and berating a person. People were uncomfortable with Tony and his unleashed barrage on Kass and that just involved him talking Llama. People were uncomfortable with Brenda and Dawn. People were uncomfortable with Reed and Missy.

 

This was worse. It is even worse if Shirin had told them that she had been verbally and physically abused as a child. If Will had that information and used it that way against Shirin he is even more awful then I thought.

[dolphincorn]

The close-ups of Tyler's face in this video makes me jealous. His skin looks great! After all that time, my face would probably be one big open sore.

[Special K]

OMG Tyler's complexion!  You are so right!

[ProfCrash]

Tyler seemed pretty chill at Ponderosa. I am assuming he discussed Star Wars a lot based on his crown. I love that they are making signs, setting up special foods, and being very welcoming to everyone who comes in.

[Special K]

I also loved the subtext of Joe's welcome.  He said something like, "We're so glad it's you joining us...mixed feelings of course."

 

What he didn't say was, "Thank god we don't have to put up with any of those other assholes...yet."

 

It reminded me of his "what do you think?" response to Jenn's question about whether Rodney was smart.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Special K

[ProfCrash]

LOL

 

I think that they will be fine when the others arrive. They are pretty chill, Shirin excluded, and I think that they are ok with pulling Shirin aside and telling her to let it go or walk away.

 

But yeah, I think they want to spend time with certain folks more then others. I don't think that is unusual just more pronounced this season.

 

I laughed when Hali licked Tyler. That was just so random...

[Jobiska]

Shirin's analysis of Tyler's play and comments that she could tell him where he went wrong, how he could grow, whatever it was, were in talking heads.   She was a little awkward coming forward with the Smurf head on (my guess is it is part of a pinata they must have had--my first horrified look at it I thought she had crafted it from soggy toilet paper, but then I saw the fringed tissue like pinatas have).  He said "Hi Smurf" to her in a tone like you would a kid that's a little older than you'd think should be hamming it up with a mask.  Then he forthrightly told her to zip it when she started to talk during his on the spot interview--and she did.  Without footage of her going on for hours about those "deeper" analysis things--I mean I believe she goes on for hours, and they have learned to just tune it out or tell her when to stop--but I'm not going to say my opinion of her has dropped incredibly.  She's annoying in her jabbering.  That's been established since day one.  But the subject matter that folks are objecting to most here was in interviews.

[Wings]

 

First off:  If Tyler lost 26 pounds while out there, why were his pants so tight when he was walking toward the medical area to be weighed in?

 

 

I had the same thought, AZ!  

 

And I loved Hali licking Tyler!  Who knows what that was about but very cute.  I enjoy it when they are able to let go of the game and have fun at Ponderosa. 

Edited May 7, 2015 by wings707

[Zuleikha]

Shirin probably should not have been cast. If her scars from her childhood are as raw as it sounds like they were, she should not have been case.

I disagree because Shirin sounds very healthy in her post-show interviews and seems to have been fairly okay on the island. What happened with Will, IMHO, is all on Will.

 

Secret scenes establish that Shirin didn't, "handle the attack as best as she couldn't," that Mike tried to get her away, that she went back and got into with Will for a long period of time and gave as good as she got.

 

Link please because I've never seen this, and the Sierra secret scene that people claim said something like this doesn't. All Sierra references is Shirin calling out Will for being a "man of God" when Mike was taking Shirin away, which was included in the aired footage. 

[JudyObscure]

What happened with Will, IMHO, is all on Will.

 

I agree with that.  The things Will said to Shirrin are unforgivable in any scenario and I can appreciate that she is still reeling from them six days later.

 

What I dislike about Shirrin is not her anger at Will, which is justified,  but her sense of superiority that comes out when she says Tyler should come to her to have his faults enumerated so he can grow.  I don't like people who feel free to take other people apart like that.  I think it's arrogant and that is something totally separate from being the victim of abuse. 

[ProfCrash]

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/07/tyler-survivor-worlds-apart-exit-interview

 

Tyler covers this in his interview. He and Shirin are in a very good place now and he understands her point of view.

[ljenkins782]

I also loved the subtext of Joe's welcome.  He said something like, "We're so glad it's you joining us...mixed feelings of course."

What he didn't say was, "Thank god we don't have to put up with any of those other assholes...yet."

 

It looks like Joe is pleasantly buzzed all the time at Ponderosa and it's pretty adorable. He and Hali must be a blast to hang with there.

 

I laughed when Hali licked Tyler. That was just so random...

 

Lol, that was Joe that licked Tyler. 

 

I like Tyler more in his relaxed Ponderosa state, he seems to fit in pretty well with the NCs and their vibe. 

 

Shirin did NOT come off well in that video at all (and I'm a bit baffled as to why there was so much of her in Tyler's video.) 

 

"There are things you don't realize about yourself that I'd be happy to tell you about"? Please.

 

Yeah, that was a bad look. I've gone back and forth on Shirin all season, she's irritating but I kinda enjoyed her relationship with the NCs/Mike at the end, but overall, I think she would work my nerves big time if I knew her.

 

And the arrogance in that moment was a stunning lack of self-awareness. She was speaking about Tyler as if he was a 20-year-old kid who just hadn't seen the world and her sage wisdom was necessary to his life journey. It was so arrogant and self-satisfied.

[KimberStormer]

LOL

 

I laughed when Hali licked Tyler. That was just so random...

 

That was Joe!

[ProfCrash]

OK, so even more random. heheh

[LadyChatts]

And also something to remember, Max said in his interviews that he and Shirin arranged the fight with Joaquin, specifically to keep him at the bottom of the tribe.

 

 

Little did they know...

 

I won't beat the Shirin horse to death, but where she lost me is where she said she was willing to tell Tyler what he needed work on as a person, and even as the camera was focused on him she kept going in the background.  I don't see where that had anything to do with the verbal beatdown she got from Will or anyone out there.  I know she said Tyler led her over to it and instigated the drama, but didn't anticipate it would be as bad as it was.  He wasn't the only one that stood by.  I just hope every Ponderosa video from now until the end is going to be all about Shirin.  I felt she got as much camera time as Tyler in his own video.  We get it editors, and it's going to be likely be the main topic at the reunion.

 

I'll say it again, I really miss Joe, Jenn, and Hali.  I wish one of the two girls was in the running for S31.

Edited May 7, 2015 by LadyChatts

[Lingo]

Well, we only get one more Ponderosa video, right? That's too bad, I'm really enjoying these. I feel like I've gotten to know the players much more in these videos than on the show itself. Joe is a really big fan, Hali and Tyler have actual personalities, I learned more about Shirin's background, and Jen...well okay maybe I didn't learn more about her! Jenn was Jenn on the show.  

[LadyChatts]

Well, we only get one more Ponderosa video, right? That's too bad, I'm really enjoying these. I feel like I've gotten to know the players much more in these videos than on the show itself. Joe is a really big fan, Hali and Tyler have actual personalities, I learned more about Shirin's background, and Jen...well okay maybe I didn't learn more about her! Jenn was Jenn on the show.  

 

Don't they usually do the Ponderosa videos of the final 5?  I haven't watched every Ponderosa, but I remember one for Spencer and Kass.  Unless it got REALLY ugly or TPTB are over the season by then, I can't believe they would miss out on Dan and Will's arrival (since I'm assuming they make the final 3/5).

[Special K]

Don't they do Ponderosa videos for everyone who goes there?  (I.e.:  all jury members)

[ByaNose]

All of the jury gets a video. We have at least 3 more...I think.

[Lingo]

OK, I stand corrected. My memory isn't the best.

[cooker30]

Tyler's video was not enough to make me forget that he told wome to "Sit there and look pretty." during the game. Wonder if he pulls that shit with his wife?

[ProfCrash]

In fairness, so far Shirin is the only person who said that. I don't think Tyler has been asked about that. Until I hear it from at least one other player, I am going to take it with a grain of salt. I don't doubt that he said it at some point but I don't know the context. I can't imagine that Jenn and Hali would be fans of Tyler if he was saying that to women. In this case, I don't have the video and don't have any corroboration so Tyler gets the benefit of the doubt.

[peachmangosteen]

I actually liked Tyler in this Ponderosa vid and if you've read, well, any of my posts this season you'll know that I hated Tyler all season. 

 

I liked how he responded to Shirin. It almost came of brotherly to me. Especially the "hey smurf" comment and the way he told her to shut up and let him have his moment.

 

I think this video made it a lot easier to understand what made Shirin annoying and hard to deal with. At first it really turned me off, but ProfCrash's posts here have made me look at it differently. I do still like Shirin, but she definitely has flaws and she needs to take that advice she has for everyone else to learn about themselves/grow and apply it to herself.

Edited May 8, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Special K]

Wonder if he pulls that shit with his wife?

 

I think I must be the only one, but for the longest time, I thought Tyler was gay.  It was a let down to learn he is just a chauvinistic heterosexual.

[peachmangosteen]

I thought Tyler was gay, too. LOL at it being a letdown that he's just another chauvinistic straight guy. So true! He seemed like a much funner and nicer person at Ponderosa though. He's somewhat of an enigma to me. He's so measured with his responses in his exit interviews and he comes off so robot like to me often in them and he did on the show as well.

Edited May 8, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[ByaNose]

He even show more personally in his exit interview with Rob C. It's amazing how he totally was able to so quiet and basically change his personality for 30 Days. Usually, people can't do that. He was able to let loose at Ponderosa but he also was able to show that he really is a a pretty chauvinistic guy with blonde hair, glasses and decent body. LOL!!!

[SlackerInc]

What I dislike about Shirrin is not her anger at Will, which is justified,  but her sense of superiority that comes out when she says Tyler should come to her to have his faults enumerated so he can grow.  I don't like people who feel free to take other people apart like that.  I think it's arrogant and that is something totally separate from being the victim of abuse. 

 

Then let's be fair: that was in an interview, not to his face--and Tyler has offered superior-sounding opinions of the personality flaws of a number of people around him (about Dan, for instance, he said something like "he may not be gullible, but he's very loyal, which is the same thing in Survivor").

 

Tyler's video was not enough to make me forget that he told wome to "Sit there and look pretty." during the game. Wonder if he pulls that shit with his wife?

 

I'm also not seeing what was so charming in this video.  I thought he came across like a smug, arrogant asshat at Ponderosa.

[wonald]

What? Versus Shirin coming across as a smug, arrogant asshat?

[ljenkins782]

Then let's be fair: that was in an interview, not to his face--and Tyler has offered superior-sounding opinions of the personality flaws of a number of people around him (about Dan, for instance, he said something like "he may not be gullible, but he's very loyal, which is the same thing in Survivor").

 

Shirin did say that to his face, she was relating the story in an interview. She told the camera that she offered to tell Tyler her thoughts on how he could grow as a person and that he could come to her to hear them. Followed by a rather obnoxiously rueful conclusion that he probably would decline to do so, thus depriving himself of the gift of her wisdom. The whole thing showed a serious social tone deafness, which i suspect is a frequent problem for Shirin.

Edited May 11, 2015 by ljenkins782

[Stinamaia]

I'm sure I have stories of childhood abuse that would around sympathy and horror from most people, but that is exactly why I don't share them except with my most intimate friends and even then only partially. I am not some sort of fragile egg who must be coddled and not held absolutely accountable for my own behavior. When I'm a jerk, and I am sometimes, or socially tone deaf, which I also can be, that's on me. It's my responsibility completely. And yeah I know everybody is different and repeated trauma scars some more deeply than others, but I tire of hearing Shirrin going back to this theme. Everybody has their own baggage they carry around, and her thinking her experiences somehow elevate her and give her a special insight into others etc., annoys me. I'm sure Will has his own stories of hardship too.

Will should not have done what he did, it was wrong. Nothing excuses it. He lost his temper and became personally abusive. Personally, I would have walked away and not stayed around once it became personal. I don't think I would have felt someone else should have rescued me.

I have no problem with Shirrin asking Tyler about his behavior, but when he gave his explanation from his point of view at the time, she could have accepted it and understood it while explaining that inside she was not fine. Different people have different perspectives, it doesn't mean someone is wrong. I guess it's always easier to dwell on someone else's imperfections than dwelling on our own -- as I am doing now. :p

Edited May 9, 2015 by Stinamaia

[Zuleikha]

I have no problem with Shirrin asking Tyler about his behavior, but when he gave his explanation from his point of view at the time, she could have accepted it and understood it while explaining that inside she was not fine.

 

We don't know that she didn't. We saw very little actual interaction between Shirin and Tyler in the Ponderosa video; most of what we saw addressing the Will/Shirin incident were clips of Tyler from an interview and clips from Shirin from an interview. IIRC, nothing even indicated they were from multiple interviews as opposed to being from the same interview. I'm also sure the producers prompted both of them with questions because I doubt Tyler would spontaneously have talked at such length about it in his interview.

 

I think it was a bad call for the editors to include so much in the Ponderosa video because I think people prefer seeing the happy, fun, silly stuff (like Joe licking Tyler!). But Tyler and Shirin can't control that, and I imagine the footage is being edited in response to how the season is being received. 

[Wings]

I think that the last person anyone should take personality advice from is Shirin. I think that she has a horrible personality. Because Will treated her badly, people feel sorry for her, consequently she is not being judged as harshly as before the Will incident. That doesn't mean that she has a good personality. I would hate to have to watch her again on Season 31, but it looks like that's what is going to happen.

 

 

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