S30.E09: Living On The Edge

[pennben]

Because, like Joe, it was just too pretty to be thrown away/voted off! We shouldn't have to lose them both in one night. 

[himela]

That idol was beautiful. I agree, they should hire Joe to make them from now on.

He is conveniently a jewlery designer :P

[himela]

See, IF (and I know it is a big if), it was all a strategy to advance herself in the game, given that almost everyone left wanted her out two episodes ago, and at the same time a plot to reassure Joe so he maybe doesn't give his all in the IC, I'd say that strategy was brilliant.

I think Jenn is the type of girl who only wants to be somewhere if she is having fun. She is the kind of girl you'd see at a party yawning and wanting to go until something funny gets her attention for 10 ninutes and when it's over, she just wants to get out of there asap again. She is self centered and she cares only for things that entertain her. That's why she said "I want to go but then I saw Rodney is the funniest guy so I want to stay". She knows she will not win and she is done with the game, so she just wants to have some free vacation with Hali and Joe. I bet that's the case with Jenn and there's nothing deeper in her way of thinking and acting.

[Wings]

I wish we had seen how the schoolyard pick went. That would have been much more interesting for me than the long close-ups of M&Ms sorted by color in their glass containers.

 

 

Yes, I would have liked to have seen that, too.  It appeared they went for the physically strong since the alliances were split.   

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think Jenn is the type of girl who only wants to be somewhere if she is having fun. She is the kind of girl you'd see at a party yawning and wanting to go until something funny gets her attention for 10 ninutes and when it's over, she just wants to get out of there asap again. She is self centered and she cares only for things that entertain her. That's why she said "I want to go but then I saw Rodney is the funniest guy so I want to stay". She knows she will not win and she is done with the game, so she just wants to have some free vacation with Hali and Joe. I bet that's the case with Jenn and there's nothing deeper in her way of thinking and acting.

 

This coincides with exactly how I saw Jenn in her interactions with Nina and Shirin.  Jenn is easy, fun, and cool but as soon as you speak about something she doesn't care about or aren't fun in the exact way she appreciates, she tunes out, and even becomes mean, i.e. shut up, stop talking, just shut up.  There are a lot of camera shots of Jenn looking off somewhere else with a bored or annoyed look on her face.  She is simply not interested in people who are not funny or fun to her in the way that she thinks she is or appreciates.  I think this is why she gets the "Mean Girl" label by some, yet others think she is the bee's knees.  Mean Girl is a vague label - in my experience, Jenn is not that for me (Mean Girls in my opinion are interested in targeting girls they're threatened by, then publicly harassing them or privately sabotaging them).  I think self-centered is a better judgement of how I see Jenn in particular.  As long as it doesn't hurt others, fine, but when it does, it might turn some off.  

Edited April 17, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Wings]

Am I the only one who noticed the fake necklace reappearing on Mike's neck after he already gave it to Jeff and then it disappearing again as they are getting up to leave? It's hanging on Mike's neck as they are waving goodbye to Joe. Why didn't Jeff throw it in the fire like he has every other time a fake was presented?

 

 

Mike knew it was fake so didn't play it.  

[Haleth]

He did play it, saying it was for Will.

[cooksdelight]

The disappearing/reappearing necklace is just another example of the bad editing this season. Tribal council lasts for a long time, way longer than we're shown, and whoever is handling editing of the show this year needs to go.

[himela]

The disappearing/reappearing necklace is just another example of the bad editing this season. Tribal council lasts for a long time, way longer than we're shown, and whoever is handling editing of the show this year needs to go.

Lets not throw innocent people who work in the editing for a living under the bus. This is a boring cast, not their fault.

[sadiegirl1999]

I wish we had seen how the schoolyard pick went.

 

 

We say this on the boards EVERY season; they never listen to us! LOL

 

Can you imagine? Survivor: (TwoP)Previously TV edition...

[peachmangosteen]

I wish we had seen how the schoolyard pick went. That would have been much more interesting for me than the long close-ups of M&Ms sorted by color in their glass containers.

 

Yea really. I will never understand why they won't show us the challenge picking. 

 

Lets not throw innocent people who work in the editing for a living under the bus. This is a boring cast, not their fault.

 

But there is evidence that there is so much more interesting stuff going on that the editors have decided is not as interesting or fun as Mike talking about 'Merica and shit. I just think the editors/producers have a different idea of what the audience here wants to see. We're a small sample size though. Maybe the casual audience loves this season. Some people here do so I could buy that the season is pretty popular among the general audience. Although even the Tumblr fandom seems to be hating this season and they were super happy about it for a long time there.

[ProfCrash]

Many of the bonus clips are pretty interesting and are telling a very different story then we are seeing portrayed in the aired show. No idea why they are selecting what they are selecting but there are some episodes left and maybe it will turn into something that makes sense.

[himela]

 

But there is evidence that there is so much more interesting stuff going on that the editors have decided is not as interesting or fun as Mike talking about 'Merica and shit. I just think the editors/producers have a different idea of what the audience here wants to see. We're a small sample size though. Maybe the casual audience loves this season. Some people here do so I could buy that the season is pretty popular among the general audience. Although even the Tumblr fandom seems to be hating this season and they were super happy about it for a long time there.

 

The editors include in the episode whatever the producers ask them to. The producers don't want to entertain us and give us what we want to see, they want to make us have some feelings, any feelings, even if these feelinhs are hatred or anger towards them and the players, so we keep watching and we discuss about it on boards and with our friends etc. And as it seems the producers have gotten their way. This is obvious every time there's a boring winner, this winner takes less time than the drama creating player who left way earlier, even though the first one freaking won the game.

[whiskeyandfeet]

Nobody noticed the awesome Wilhelm Scream when Will tumbled down the Reward Challenge ramp? i fell in love with some editor in that moment.

[peachmangosteen]

The RC in general was hilarious. Actually, this ep was funny and entertaining, but it was also very frustrating because it was obvious we weren't getting any kind of accurate portrayal of the actual game and/or strategy of most of the players.

[cooksdelight]

 

Yea really. I will never understand why they won't show us the challenge picking.

 

They used to do it, especially if someone that no one liked is picked last all the time. It would give viewers a good idea of what's going on at camp every day. Of course, they don't want US to know anything.

[Miss Scarlet]

Just let people complain. Don't turn people's complaining into a justification of how they are, like she's bratty, entitled, yada yada yada. You never hanged around at the water cooler and just yap it up? What Jenn was doing was like a confessional. Put one more person in, and it'll be yap yap yap, it's harmless.

Part of discussing the show is discussing the strategies, but also the players' motivations, personalities, content of their confessionals, etc. And that usually involves describing how a person's confessionals or actions came across to you. This may not be everyone's style of posting, but people are allowed to discuss this, as long as no one says anything inappropriate or vitriolic. There's no need for people to get defensive when their favorite players are criticized and try to police other posters. My favorite players are criticized all the time and lots of unfavorable things are said about their personalities. It doesn't bother me. 

[Miss Scarlet]

 

Somebody posted something somewhere about Will but left out the top part. I guess we're playing survivor on the boards here as well.

I apologize for removing part of the quote in order to make it smaller without thinking of how that would affect the context of it. However, there was no need for these types of comments. Let's all have fun and be respectful towards each other.

Edited April 17, 2015 by wudpixie

[needschocolate]

I wish we had seen how the schoolyard pick went. That would have been much more interesting for me than the long close-ups of M&Ms sorted by color in their glass containers.

 

We would see more picking of teams if there was someone sponsoring it or some sort of product placement involved.  I am not sure how that could happen though. 

 

Maybe ...Jeff would say, "Okay, this is how we are going to choose teams. You each are holding a different color of a delicious, melts in your mouth, not in your hands M&M.  Notice how the colorful candy coating stops the creamy milk chocolate center from getting all over your hands.  You will pick the next person on your team by stating the color of their delicious, melts in your mouth, not in their hands M&M.  Then that person picks the next person for your team.  After you pick someone you can eat your delicious, melts in your mouth, not in your hands M&M, since you are no longer available for picking. Whoever is holding the green M&M will go first...and it is Caroline.  Which of the wonderful colors will you pick?"

 

Before she gets a chance to answer, Mike will shout, "Pick brown, please pick brown.  That's my color and these delicious M&Ms have been my favorite candy coated chocolate treat since a was a young lad and my mother used to sneak them to me to get me be quiet in church.  I still remember listening to the sermon while the amazing milk chocolate melted slowly in my mouth. Sob."

[iMonrey]

 

So much pretty gone. #joeforallstars.

 

Well, his hair was pretty. In fact I was kind of marveling at it during Tribal Council. It was so perfectly curled and full it looked as if he'd just stepped out of a salon. However, when his hair is all pulled up in a bun it looks ridiculous, and without the hair he's actually rather ordinary/plain looking.

[Eggman]

Somebody posted something somewhere about Will but left out the top part.

 

Regardless of what Joe says, those 3 voted for Will as part of a split vote.   That action speaks loudly, and it's obvious that Will heard it.  People keep saying they don't know what he's thinking, but it's plain to see (as he TH'd at one point) that he can't work with the other NCs.  He may not be able to win, but he's still there. 

[Guest]

Like others have said, I thought Joe looks a lot like Orlando Bloom, but with nicer eyes.  

 

I for one don't care to waste time on school yard picks.  With only 42 minutes a week, minus challenge footage and tribal council-- I want to see strategies that affect the game.  The picks are probably very predictable.  Joe gets picked first, Will and Dan last, the rest in the middle.  

[himela]

We would see more picking of teams if there was someone sponsoring it or some sort of product placement involved.  I am not sure how that could happen though. 

 

Maybe ...Jeff would say, "Okay, this is how we are going to choose teams. You each are holding a different color of a delicious, melts in your mouth, not in your hands M&M.  Notice how the colorful candy coating stops the creamy milk chocolate center from getting all over your hands.  You will pick the next person on your team by stating the color of their delicious, melts in your mouth, not in their hands M&M.  Then that person picks the next person for your team.  After you pick someone you can eat your delicious, melts in your mouth, not in your hands M&M, since you are no longer available for picking. Whoever is holding the green M&M will go first...and it is Caroline.  Which of the wonderful colors will you pick?"

 

Before she gets a chance to answer, Mike will shout, "Pick brown, please pick brown.  That's my color and these delicious M&Ms have been my favorite candy coated chocolate treat since a was a young lad and my mother used to sneak them to me to get me be quiet in church.  I still remember listening to the sermon while the amazing milk chocolate melted slowly in my mouth. Sob."

You are hillarious and you kinda verify your name :P

[enlightenedbum]

They used to do it, especially if someone that no one liked is picked last all the time. It would give viewers a good idea of what's going on at camp every day. Of course, they don't want US to know anything.

For example, the time Cirie was picked last and went off to scheme how to boot Ozzy and his immunity idol.  Good times.

[Special K]

Well, his hair was pretty. In fact I was kind of marveling at it during Tribal Council. It was so perfectly curled and full it looked as if he'd just stepped out of a salon.

 

As the owner of curly hair, I can attest that it can look better and better the less you do to it -- by which I mean, shampooing, combing/brushing, etc.

[peachmangosteen]

As the owner of curly hair, I can attest that it can look better and better the less you do to it -- by which I mean, shampooing, combing/brushing, etc.

 

This is so true and Joe's Ponderosa proves it. His hair looked much better unwashed.

Edited April 17, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[SlackerInc]

Count me as another who was gobsmacked by Rodney's impressions.  It's not just that he's surprisingly good at altering his voice; the way he did them bespeaks an intelligence that I just 100% did not believe he possessed.  Hard to wrap my mind around.

 

Nobody noticed the awesome Wilhelm Scream when Will tumbled down the Reward Challenge ramp? i fell in love with some editor in that moment.

 

I noticed it!  It was hilarious.  I know though that I never consciously noticed Wilhelms until I read about them and then watched/listened to a YouTube video.  Once I did, I couldn't not notice them when they popped up.  I think if too many of the hoi polloi overtly noticed them, editors would be constrained from being able to slip them in here and there; and people like us wouldn't be able to have this kind of Easter-eggy fun.  :)

[Wings]

I fell in love with Tyler, a little bit, when he voted.  He said, dead pan, "I don't know what is going on."

[peachmangosteen]

I fell in love with Tyler, a little bit, when he voted.  He said, dead pan, "I don't know what is going on."

 

I kinda did, too. Then I watched the extra vid of him talking about the IC and I kinda fall more in love. And I hated the guy! I even thought he looked fine in this ep. This season is so bad it's doing crazy things to me!

[fishcakes]

Edited because it was polite in my head, but kind of rude on screen.

 

Edited April 17, 2015 by fishcakes

[Guest]

I fell in love with Tyler, a little bit, when he voted.  He said, dead pan, "I don't know what is going on."

It was really cute, and then Rodney said the exact same thing, which made us laugh.  

 

Though how could those guys not know what's going on?  They all voted for Joe... Joe left.  Where was the confusion?  

Count me as another who was gobsmacked by Rodney's impressions.  It's not just that he's surprisingly good at altering his voice; the way he did them bespeaks an intelligence that I just 100% did not believe he possessed.  Hard to wrap my mind around.

 

I'm not saying he's not intelligent but there are birds that can mimic people's speech.  

[needschocolate]

Though how could those guys not know what's going on?  They all voted for Joe... Joe left.  Where was the confusion?   

 

I wonder if they meant they didn't know what was going on with Mike and the fake idol.  If I recall correctly, Mike showed Jeff the fake idol before the vote. 

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Nobody noticed the awesome Wilhelm Scream when Will tumbled down the Reward Challenge ramp?

Not to mention the celery-stalk-snapped-inside-a-chamois when Dan landed on his tailbone.

[riley702]

For those who didn't record it (or keep the recording) the fun starts soon after 3:00.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPGXnunj6n4

[Way Wes Jr]

Okay, when I saw it originally, I just thought it was Will.  But you have now convinced me it was added in.  Good job sound editors.

[Ms Blue Jay]

riley702, thank you!!!!!

[Wings]

Not to mention the celery-stalk-snapped-inside-a-chamois when Dan landed on his tailbone.

 

 

Ha ha ha ha ha!  Brilliant! 

[Wings]

I just went to youtube to hear the Wilhelm scream.  I did not know about this!  Now I will hear it whenever it is used.  Love it and thank you! 

[SlackerInc]

Glad you're enjoying being "in the know" vis-a-vis Wilhelm.  Isn't it funny that so many major TV shows and movies can get away with slipping that in there, over and over?

 

It was really cute, and then Rodney said the exact same thing, which made us laugh.  

 

Though how could those guys not know what's going on?  They all voted for Joe... Joe left.  Where was the confusion?  

I'm not saying he's not intelligent but there are birds that can mimic people's speech.  

 

But did he just repeat things they had said verbatim (which I agree, doesn't necessarily require conscious intelligence), or did he convey a kind of parody of their whole sensibility?  I thought the latter, but I'd like to think I'm wrong as I don't enjoy giving the guy this much credit, LOL.

 

Okay, when I saw it originally, I just thought it was Will.  But you have now convinced me it was added in.  Good job sound editors.

 

Ha, listening to it again it's really funny to imagine people taking that as Will's actual scream.  Did you think it was pretty weird of him to scream that way?

[SVNBob]

Nobody noticed the awesome Wilhelm Scream when Will tumbled down the Reward Challenge ramp? i fell in love with some editor in that moment.

I noticed it in the preview for this episode last week.  I thought it was funny during the promo.

 

But it made no sense to me to have it in the actual episode.  Why?  What was the point?  Because a big guy fell?  Dan also crashed but didn't get the Wilhelm.  Is it because he's Will?  Then they should have slipped it in during other challenges too.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I found it amusing, just pointless in this instance.

[henripootel]

Many of the bonus clips are pretty interesting and are telling a very different story then we are seeing portrayed in the aired show.

Haven't watched the bonus clips - care to elaborate, Prof?  I'm always up for hints about what the editors leave out.  

Not to mention the celery-stalk-snapped-inside-a-chamois when Dan landed on his tailbone.

I honestly cringed at that and other times people smacked the deck in that challenge.  Couldn't tell if they'd padded the edges but I couldn't imagine that nobody got hurt, some badly.

[Miss Scarlet]

 

I think Jenn is the type of girl who only wants to be somewhere if she is having fun. She is the kind of girl you'd see at a party yawning and wanting to go until something funny gets her attention for 10 ninutes and when it's over, she just wants to get out of there asap again. She is self centered and she cares only for things that entertain her. That's why she said "I want to go but then I saw Rodney is the funniest guy so I want to stay". She knows she will not win and she is done with the game, so she just wants to have some free vacation with Hali and Joe. I bet that's the case with Jenn and there's nothing deeper in her way of thinking and acting.

 

 

This coincides with exactly how I saw Jenn in her interactions with Nina and Shirin.  Jenn is easy, fun, and cool but as soon as you speak about something she doesn't care about or aren't fun in the exact way she appreciates, she tunes out, and even becomes mean, i.e. shut up, stop talking, just shut up.  There are a lot of camera shots of Jenn looking off somewhere else with a bored or annoyed look on her face.  She is simply not interested in people who are not funny or fun to her in the way that she thinks she is or appreciates.  I think this is why she gets the "Mean Girl" label by some, yet others think she is the bee's knees.  Mean Girl is a vague label - in my experience, Jenn is not that for me (Mean Girls in my opinion are interested in targeting girls they're threatened by, then publicly harassing them or privately sabotaging them).  I think self-centered is a better judgement of how I see Jenn in particular.  As long as it doesn't hurt others, fine, but when it does, it might turn some off.  

I think these are good descriptions of what Jenn seems like and why she comes off as unlikable. The party example made me laugh because she totally wouldn't care about insulting someone's party by calling it lame-o, while being too cool for it and making it all about herself.

 

If Jenn likes you then she's super nice to you and loves everything you do, but if she doesn't like you, she'll hate on you for everything. And I think that she only appreciates people if they're exactly like her is and is very narrow-minded and judgmental. (Which is another reason it doesn't make sense that she was ever cast for NC. Aren't they supposed to be accepting and open-minded? Shouldn't CBS have just said "this our tribe of young and unemployed people"?) And she's so judgmental that two people could do or say the same thing and if one of them is her or one of friends she'll think it's the best thing ever and if the other person is someone outside her circle she'll make fun of them. If she saw someone walking down the street with her style of dress and piercings or whatever, she'd probably make fun of them for being a poser. But those things on her are totally cool.

 

I don't think she would be as liked (on or off the show) if she was on a different season where her opposing alliance wasn't composed of people like Rodney and Dan. If her competition was less awful then I think she'd be viewed the same way Abi-Maria was. I feel like her tribemates and viewers would get really sick of her constant Debbie Downer attitude. It is really awful and morale-sucking to be around someone who just hates on everything and has no regard for other people. Because there's a difference between hating on people who are saying and doing horrible things (again, Rodney and Dan) and just hating on anyone who is different from you. It's okay to not want to be best friends with someone who's different from you, but you also shouldn't be acting like that person is a black mark on society, especially when their differences are over dumb, trivial things anyway (like hating on Max and Shirin for their superfandom). Although maybe her tribe doesn't react to her the way the tribes reacted to Abi in the Philippines because she saves most of her negativity for her confessionals and they don't see it.

 

I think she was cast to be something of a Courtney Yates 2.0 and I was super excited for that. But as I've said before, I don't see it. Courtney could get away with insulting other players because she would explain why they were awful while being hilarious, charming and super perceptive. I still laugh whenever I think about how she asked Jean-Robert if he thought he was Luke Perry. Jenn's confessionals are just "shuuuuut uuuuup" and "stop existing". To me that comes across as juvenile and boring. I don't find those confessionals entertaining and I don't think they add anything to the show.

 

I really don't get why people are defending her almost quitting, but maybe it has to do with the fact that there are so few well-developed women on Survivor, who get a lot of confessionals and screen-time that it can be hard not to root for the ones that don't just get the typical invisible edits. I did the same thing with Carolyn earlier this season. But imagine if Rodney had tried to quit after his best friend Joaquin had been voted out. No one would be defending him (and I say this as one of Rodney's top haters). 

 

I've also seen people say they like her because they think she's so authentic and unfiltered. I don't think see that. I mean, her dislike of other players is probably genuine, but I think most of what she does is her trying really, really hard to be cool and to get attention without looking like she's trying to get attention. I don't buy her "I don't care about this game, people take it too seriously". She was super excited at the first tribal council and said she was "freaking out" before playing her idol at the TC after the merge. (This is also why she could have been a bit nicer about Max and Shirin. I get that they were annoying, but I thought someone who is a fan of the show should have been more understanding of them.) I think she actually cares about the game a lot and that slips out every once in a while, but when it does she's careful to conceal it again. She's very invested in presenting herself as apathetic and disengaged because it's this very junior high definition of what being "cool" is. It reminds me a lot of students who are like "Psh I don't even care about school. I never study for tests and I still get straight As". And then eventually it comes out that they're not laid-back at all and actually have super high anxiety. I noticed in her pre-season video that she also seemed very invested in letting everyone know that she was a guys' girl and it's for the same reasons. 

 

Wanting to quit falls into her cultivating this image because if she gets voted out it'll look like it's what she wanted and that she never cared about the game anyway. It is a defense mechanism and it works out well for her in the sense that if she does get to go home it looks like she basically engineered her own vote-out and if she makes it to the end she can claim that she did it on purpose because being non-threatening is a strategy. I like it when players don't take the game too seriously (and don't end up being bitter afterwards), but that's not the same as pretending not to care about the game at all, making fun of other people that do and then having a tantrum whenever things don't go your way. And it was a tantrum. Which is funny, because it makes it seem like she needs to be coddled when she's the one that said (about Nina) "you don't coddle people in this game". Besides, she has nobody to blame but herself for her current position. She ruined her own game. There were so many swing votes at the merge that she could have picked up and she didn't. In exit interviews Kelly said that she and Carolyn didn't like the NC. Based on Kelly's interview and Max's interviews, it's probably because Jenn is not very pleasant to anyone but Hali and Joe. So I don't blame other people for not wanting to work with her. 

 

And her behaviour from the past few episodes has made me re-think my opinions about her interactions with Nina. At first I thought that maybe Nina was being oversensitive and unfairly blaming Jenn and Hali for their tribe dynamics. But now? I think Jenn is probably very exclusive and doesn't care about making other people feel welcome. She's the type of person that would walk up to a group of people, interrupt their conversation to start talking to one person in the group and inviting that person to a party without inviting anyone else and then walk away, never having even acknowledged that anyone else was present during the conversation. So I don't really blame Nina for being as upset as she was. I remember in the first episode Jenn said "I do what I want to do when I want to do it" and all I thought was "okay, so that's the description for the NC that CBS is using this season" but looking back on it and, as Ms Blue Jay said, it's problematic when doing what she wants to do involves being insensitive or rude to other people.

 

I wouldn't say that she's a "Mean Girl" (not that I like that term) or a "cool girl" just because I don't think she'd fit with the stereotypical Mean Girls we can think of. I don't think they'd find her cool or that she'd be popular. To them she'd probably be too "alternative" and "weird" (although maybe that is the trend right now, I have no idea). I feel like to be a Mean Girl or a cool kid on Survivor all it means is that you're in the "younger person" alliance. If she was with a group of people that were all her age I don't know what group she would fit into. But she definitely seems exclusive and insensitive and those are qualities that can be ascribed to anyone in any group. 

Edited April 20, 2015 by wudpixie

[peachmangosteen]

I really don't get why people are defending her almost quitting ...

 

For me personally, I never complain about quitters because I don't care if people quit. It just isn't that big of a deal to me.

[LadyChatts]

I still like Jenn, although not as much as I did in the beginning.  She's a former shell of herself from those first few episodes of fun and snark.  I am glad she didn't quit, though I don't care for people who try and get around the 'I'm not a quitter' label by asking to be voted out.  Same thing, so you might as well have just laid your torch down and left.  When it comes to quitters, I feel sorry for the people already voted off that would have killed to make it to that spot.  That's the ultimate goal for 99% of people that go on there is just making it to the merge and jury.  Super sad to lose Joe, but Shirin played that smart and may have bought her and Jenn some time in the game.  I recall a couple other incidents in seasons pasts where contestants wanted to get voted out, but their tribe needed their numbers so they didn't honor them that.  Joe appeared to hype up in interviews that a small part of that could have been strategy on Jenn's part.  I don't know if I believe that or not, but with Joe gone maybe Jenn can get her groove back.  She and Shirin need to fight that they are needed for swing votes, otherwise they need to call them out and ask what's happening once they are gone.

 

Going forward, if Mike discovers the final 4 Rodney has is legit, I wonder if he would actually go and target Rodney or one of the others in his alliance.  Something about Mike and his approach to this game makes me feel like he's some paranoid control freak that everyone bows to.  But again with the editing this year, maybe they are just giving him a really good one so they can justify if he wins (which I'm still calling this point-either him or Tyler).  I think I can see why Jeff would be foaming at the mouth and declare Mike the best winner ever: a strange part of me sees a little of Jeff in Mike.  The spoiled part that if he doesn't get his way he'll pack up his ball and run home.

Edited April 20, 2015 by LadyChatts

[SlackerInc]

For me personally, I never complain about quitters because I don't care if people quit. It just isn't that big of a deal to me.

 

I sometimes find myself starting to get caught up in the frustration of how it kind of messes up people's strategy and thus reduces our entertainment value.  But then I remind myself that there is pretty close to zero chance that I would be able to make it through 39 days of those kinds of conditions (especially if I didn't win many food rewards or reward challenges that provided comfort items like pillows and hammocks).  I mean, I like camping as much as the next person; but only in a tent with a waterproof fly over it, sleeping on an air mattress with a nice sleeping bag and so on, with s'mores ingredients ready to go at any moment, KWIM?  

 

Now it could be pointed out that at least I know I wouldn't be able to handle it, and thus presumably wouldn't even attempt to put myself through it.  But I can't blame others for being overly optimistic about either the severity of the conditions or their ability to handle them.

 

Frankly, I'm surprised the number of quitters hasn't been higher over the years.

[KimberStormer]

Well I watched the episode finally, after spoiling myself so it would be less painful.

 

Joe sure brings the pretty but he is NOT smart. He's like Ozzy 2.0 (or is it 3.0 b/c Malcolm is/was Ozzy 2.0?)

 

This sort of comparison just makes no sense to me.  Yes, they're all young hot guys with fabulous hair.  But I don't see any comparison between any of their games.  Ozzy was simply astounding at challenges but also played from a position of relative social strength: he was top of the original Aitu tribe (the Aitu 4 situation was so unique that it doesn't really figure in), the Favorites tribe, the remixed Malakal, Dabu, and even sort of his tribe in South Pacific.  It's not like he didn't have a solid game plan, especially in Micronesia; it's just that he didn't realize Cirie and especially Parvati were not settling for fourth or fifth place.  You can call that stupid, but there are a loooooot of people who have settled for that over the years, and having played with Parv before I don't know if there's any reason he would have suspected that she was such a player.  He even played Redemption Island perfectly, providing food and a sympathetic ear to each person voted off before "honorably" defeating them at the challenge.

 

Malcolm was purely average at challenges, but just looks like he's good a them; luckily he was socially adept enough to stay under the radar somehow despite looking so strong and being so likeable, until needing final immunity in one case and until Dawn conned Corinne into blowing up his game for him.  He got along with people of every age and description (Denise, Lisa, Skupin, Pete, Andrea, Cochran, everybody personally loved Malcolm), thought and idol-hunted and played his ass off.  He fell down once the jig was up post-merge in FvF2 but he was tired from playing twice without a break and his only allies were two of the worst Survivor players ever seen, Reynold and Eddie.

 

Joe seems to have only really gotten along with the young people; he was sweet enough but had no idea how to hide himself post-merge.  "I'll just win every immunity" is a bad plan, whether you're a nice kid like Joe or an asshole like Terry Dietz.  I don't think Joe's main problem was not so much failing to pull people over as much as it was failing to not be the obvious threat.  I don't know how he could have done that either, but people have managed it.  Anyway, I don't think he played like Ozzy or like Malcolm at all.

 

I think even Jonny Fairplay could make the guys this season look like idiots.

 

Well yeah.  Fairplay was really good at the game.  These people would stand no chance.

 

I've wanted to see Jenn voted out since the first episode, so it's just a series of disappointments for me.  She truly is a no-collar, she loves to play and is naturally  good at all games, laughing and gloating when she's winning, but when the kids she likes go home and it's not that much fun anymore, it's pouting time.

 

I know this is intended to be negative, but it's a Jenn I recognize and like.  Yes, laugh while you're winning, and pout when you're not having fun; life is too short to not feel it completely.  I was rooting for No Collar before the season started (like I was rooting for Beauty in Cagayan) and I still am, and only Jenn is left.  As for her quitting/not quitting, I don't feel the need to 'defend' it, because I don't think it's wrong.  Her shitty tweets were wrong, but that's outside the show in real life.  I'm just going by the show, and on the show, Jenn is the only one for me.  The rest of these fucks can go to hell.

 

So Jenn wants everyone to vote her out and even said she'd give the immunity idol to Joe if she won it but won't just outright quite. That seemed like splitting hairs to me until someone here explained she gets no money if she officially "quits." Makes more sense now.

 

Someone may have 'explained' this, but it doesn't make it true.

 

 I strongly dislike her defeatism.

Anyway, the more I think about things the more I think that if everyone is behaving rationally, the blue collar alliance absolutely sticks together. 

 

I'm trying to think of ways that this season ends up as not a disaster and basically coming up empty.  This might be worse than Nicaragua.

 

So you think she shouldn't be defeatist but she's definitely defeated?  Anyway, I think Nicaragua is an interesting comparison.  Another awful cast of horrible people with bizarre editing and the one rootable person (Brenda) voted out way too soon.  But they at least knew to make Fabio as loveable as possible.  He was a ridiculous winner, but everyone (as far as I could tell) said "Thank God he won!  The only ending I could possibly have accepted!!"  I don't feel like there's anybody we could say that about this time.  Even Shirin, for example, who is totally making Final 3 as far as I can tell, has gotten an "isn't she annoying?" edit, not the "loveable underdog everyone hates for no reason" edit like Sierra in Tocantins or Sugar in Gabon.  I'm sure it's going to be Mike, which is just awful.  I sort of feel about him like the Kim haters felt about Kim: why does everything go his way??  Whyyyy, I hate him.  I accept that he must be playing well, but I can't stand him.

[LadyChatts]

I think I'm at the stage of DVRing and watching later.  I'll see what happens first, but at least I can skip over the parts and people I don't want to see.

 

Kimber, I think that poster may have been referencing something I said about the post-Nicaragua quitting rule: that the producers can withhold any prize money or jury spot.  They take it case by case.  Which I guess could translate to either they like you and your quitting spared their man-crush, or they hated you from the word go and your leaving screws up the rest of the game for the man-crush.  I was half expecting a repeat of Palau when Janu wanted out, her tribe wanted Stephenie gone, and Probst practically voted Janu off himself to save Steph.  I don't know what the case would have been with Jenn, although I kind of doubt that factored into her decision at all.  Perhaps I'm wrong.  Joe seems to be selling it pretty hard in interviews that it could have been clever strategy on her part, so I wonder if he's hinting at something.  Since the editors are leaving so much out, which is something else Joe acknowledged in a couple of interviews, I'm at the point where I'm reading between the lines and trying to pick up on any little clue that might shed any sliver of light on what's going on behind the scenes.  Regarding your comment about Mike: so much bugs me about the man, and he would rank in my bottom 5 of winners ever should he get there.  I don't get the mentality that people have to prove loyalty to him.  I mean, I get it that you want to know you can trust people.  But seriously, it's as though they are acting like people need him a lot more than he needs them.  Which is yet another reason I'm pegging him to win.  Will this be a Thailand or Vanuatu situation where he just tells someone they are going to miss out on the final 3, but tells them to vote with him anyway, and they accept it?  I thought I would have found Max Dawson to be super annoying to have around at this stage, given what he said in his post-boot interviews about wanting to be some conniving character that created chaos.  I think Mike and his ego may actually top that, but he hasn't actually done anything that thrilling.  He has a tribe mostly full of goats and coasters, and the only one yet to attempt to challenge him is Rodney.  However, I feel as though poor Rodney will fail.  The blues are too cult like to vote one of their own off, so they'll sack either Carolyn, Tyler, or Will, and force Rodney to come back to them. 

 

I am glad to see I'm not the only NC/Jenn fan left.  Like you, I try not to let what castoffs do outside the show cloud my judgment of them on the show.  I enjoyed Jenn in the beginning, still do, but I want the Jenn I enjoyed back.  She hasn't done anything on here that has made me dislike her in anyway.  The whole Nina situation, I think both sides could equally be at fault for that, and I also believe Vince didn't help by filling Nina's head with crap that wasn't true.  I completely forgot Jenn is the last of the NC tribe remaining.  I grouped Shirin in with them so much as she was part of their alliance, that I automatically associated her with being on that tribe from the start!  I was hoping we'd get an underdog story and the blues would get taken out, but alas, it isn't meant to be.  Looking back at past seasons, this one is just so drama free compared to others.  Everyone's too nice and it seems like no one wants to hurt someone else's feelings (Dan and Rodney aside, but I'm not talking being bullies more like game moves).  I'm not looking for another Colton or Phillip or even how Cochran got treated at Ponderosa during South Pacific.  But good grief, we need someone to liven it up.  I don't go by what the cast says in regards to this being the best season/cast ever, because of course they would think so.  I have a favorites list, a bottom list, and those seasons that I'm neutral on.  Worlds Apart I went from loving, to being neutral, and it is now heading towards one of the worst ever for me. 

Edited April 20, 2015 by LadyChatts

[enlightenedbum]

 

So you think she shouldn't be defeatist but she's definitely defeated?

Not quite.  I think the four BCs should be solid to the end if they're rational because each of them should think they have a good shot at the money if they win the F4 challenge.  There are two reasons Jenn shouldn't give up:

 

1) There are nine left.  Theoretically, Carolyn, Shirin, Tyler, Jenn, and Will could band together to overpower the BCs.  And if those five were playing rationally and thought the BCs were as well, they would because I think the BC thing is a little too obvious voting wise thus far, unlike a slightly better disguised end game plan like say, Kim's where she had everyone in her main alliance think they were in her F3.  I don't think this will happen because Carolyn doesn't like Shirin so strongly and Jenn is kind of checked out.

2) Do we think Rodney in particular is a rational player?

 

What we really need here is a good coconut chopping reward challenge to make this Marquesas 2: This Time, It's More Sexist (and that season had young Mariano!)

 

Not that it would make a great season (or even a not shitty) or anything, because those five people are basically lame or blank slates, but it would be a better season than a boring ass Pagoning led by some of the most obnoxious people they've ever cast.

Edited April 20, 2015 by enlightenedbum

[hyukx3]

I dont think Will's gonna flip. Swap Will with Sierra instead.

[Special K]

riley702, thank you!!!!!

Seriously!  I just listened to those 10 seconds over and over, and I'm sitting here weeping at my desk, I'm laughing so hard.