sonyab April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 I know it must've been hard to hear when he's speaking half-english / half-batman growl. ROFL! 1 Link to comment
slothgirl April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 I do agree it's crazy that neither the landlady nor the people at her job reported Abigail as missing, especially since the people at wor knew she'd taken Belinda home because Belinda feared her boyfriend. That's a typical set up for foul play. Maybe the report got squashed by the policeman since he WAS the offender. And the people who reported it were no longer there to question all these years later. 4 Link to comment
7kstar April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 When did you start watching?! :) about 3 eps ago. I caught it once and then forgot about it and then caught it again. I started with the rich guy trying to date the cop. so I'm really new to the show. :) Link to comment
sonyab April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 about 3 eps ago. I caught it once and then forgot about it and then caught it again. I started with the rich guy trying to date the cop. so I'm really new to the show. :) Oh! Well you can go online and watch from the beginning. :) Welcome to the show! 1 Link to comment
K.M. April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 It occurs to me, that since we got the story from Adam, it's likely we didn't get quite all of it. For instance, maybe he didn't just show her the knife. Maybe he said something to her in the car about his intentions that made her suddenly decide to drive off the road and be desperate enough to kill herself after she was resuscitated. If there was something said that would make Abigail think Adam intended to kidnap/imprison/torture the immortal when he found him, I can see her dying to protect Henry. After all, that's got to be Henry's worst fear, since Nora and the insane asylum. And Adam's version with Mengele was even worse. When we first saw Adam, he was the mystery man who only spoke in threatening tones over the phone, wouldn't say anything about himself, then killed Henry twice (once by slitting his throat and once by drowning him in a taxi), and then Henry found out he had tortured and flayed alive and murdered more than one person in revenge. It wasn't until he gave Abe the information about his parents that we saw any not-terrifying side to him. What if he told Abigail the things he'd done in his search for another immortal? Or what he'd be willing to do to find him? I don't think her reaction was out of place to early-appearance Adam. And it occurs to me that Adam's gift to Abe of his real parents might be prompted by regret and as close as he'll ever get to an apology for killing his mom. Also, I'm not alone in thinking we're meant to wonder if 2000 years old + Roman dagger = Julius Caesar, am I? Although actually being Caesar seems unlikely to me. Maybe he's one of the senators who assassinated Caesar. Cassius or Brutus, maybe? I'd love to know if the writers know/have decided who he is at this point. 12 Link to comment
Whodunnit April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 Wasn't she gone three years? 1982-April 7th 1985. Or maybe it was four, I think they said that she had been missing for a year in the flashback 1982 scene. Link to comment
Jaded Sapphire April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 I love how everyone on this show is so good-- good at their jobs, good hearted, good friends, just good. The entire ensemble is good-- not just the characters, but also the acting and the writing and the sets and costuming, just everything about it is good. Even half the crimes are done by accident, or out of patheticness, rather than deliberately and for profit. The show is so lacking in cynicism, while still delivering a deserved condemnation of corruption, "insane asylum" abuses, slavery, concentration camps, the really big bads are acknowledged and yet the core of the show is so insistently love-based-- amazing. I thought tonight's episode was going to be the finale, but I'm glad to see there's one more. Also, the characters are such adults! They aren't acting like overgrown teenagers. It's refreshing. I nitpick plenty of shows, so I can't complain about anyone nitpicking this one. I'm just saying that for me the handwaves on this show are not outweighing the things that make it rewarding to watch, and that they don't seem more implausible than what most shows try to get away with (if you accept the original immortality premise at all, of course). I (and a lot of other people) have already liked these posts but I wanted to quote them because I feel like the good will generated by the show does indeed lead me to be a lot more forgiving of the plot holes. While I do think Abigail had reason to not want Adam to meet Henry, the idea that two immortals will literally have forever to find each other doesn't make her think twice about the true utility of killing herself. But you know what I was thinking when I watched the ep? OMG Poor Henry! OMG Poor Abe! and OMG Poor Abigail! When I truly give a damn about the characters I care way more about how what's happening will affect them rather than whether it makes perfect sense. Just wanted to give another nod to the actors, writing, and overall pleasantness of the show. 5 Link to comment
zannej April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 I know a lot of people are talking about how convenient and unrealistic the coincidences are, but I've experienced some strange coincidences in my life. Like, my sister went to a rather exclusive school in the mainland US and when we were over on Guam we went on a boat trip. One of the people on the boat was familiar and it turned out she had gone to the same school at the same time as my sister. And another time my parents were in Australia and ran in to some people who turned out to be friends with a friend of ours from Singapore. Not sure what the odds of that are, but it happened. So, I can buy that Adam was hit by the car and brought to the same ER. I can also buy that the guilty cop managed to squelch the investigation somewhat. There are tons of people who go missing, and even if missing person's report is filed they don't always look for the people very thoroughly. Where I live, there was a young man who disappeared and there were all sorts of rumors about what happened to him and the stories were common knowledge around town-- the person supposedly responsible for his death was later murdered, but the poliice never really bothered to follow leads to look where the body was supposedly put through the woodchipper at a lumbermill. But then, the police where I live are just inept. As for Henry being too distraught-- I think he could barely look at the skeleton of Abigail in some ways, so I don't find it hard to believe that he didn't see that it wasn't her on the first one and that he missed things on the second one. 2 Link to comment
smiley13 April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 This episode had me yelling at the TV once I realized that Adam was involved. Poor Henry, thank heavens he found out that Abigail wanted to be with him again and that she died to protect him. If we don't get another season, at least we know what happened to Abigail. I have loved all of the flashbacks of Henry and Abigail and their love story. What a difference between Nora and Abigail. Lucas continues to be a strong supporting character. I loved his reaction to Henry's home lab. And when the Capt (?) told Jo that no one with a badge was to go in and question the suspect, but told Henry she was not talking to him and gave that look. And there went Henry in for the inquisition. I don't care at all about Henry's break in the case having to do with the color of the car and whether it is a real color. 2 Link to comment
Julie23 April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 I really hope the network gives this show another chance. It is one of the best shows on TV now. I love all of the characters, and they work well together. 3 Link to comment
ElectricBoogaloo April 23, 2015 Author Share April 23, 2015 Oh, I totally agree about that crazy coincidences happen all the time. A friend of mine from college got married and when I met her husband, it turned out that he went to my high school. We even graduated the same year (we never met because we went to a really big school but we knew a bunch of the same people). Another friend of mine from college moved from California to Florida where she met and married a guy who grew up in a tiny town in North Carolina. A few years later when a different friend of mine (who I met way after college) got married, I noticed a name in the wedding program was the same as my college friend's married last name. I turned out that the girl I met after college is my college friend's husband's cousin. I have had so many random coincidences like that in my life that I don't think it's weird when there are coincidences on tv. Truth is stranger than fiction! I know it seems too easy that Adam was in an accident and taken to the hospital where Abigail worked, but I have seen way weirder paths crossing in real life so it's hard for me to say that it happening on tv is unrealistic. Where I live, there was a young man who disappeared and there were all sorts of rumors about what happened to him and the stories were common knowledge around town-- the person supposedly responsible for his death was later murdered, but the poliice never really bothered to follow leads to look where the body was supposedly put through the woodchipper at a lumbermill. But then, the police where I live are just inept. Do you live in Sunnydale? 3 Link to comment
cali1981 April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 Sure there may be lapses of logic in the show but I choose to focus on these wonderful characters and their stories rather than those. As others have said, the one word to describe this episode is heartbreaking. I hope that the show doesn't get cancelled. It has so many possibilities for a new season. The relationship between Henry and Jo bears watching (as, of course, does the yummy ADLG). Adam and Henry as dueling immortals could fill episodes by themselves. Unfortunately the track record of the ABC suits when it comes to renewing quality shows whose ratings aren't up to their standards, is not encouraging (Eli Stone, Dirty, Sexy, Money as examples). Maybe this time it will be different. We can only hope so. 1 Link to comment
iMonrey April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 As soon as I heard about Abigail leaving with a mysterious stranger, I knew it was Adam. I didn't. I guess I should have figured, but they use Adam so infrequently I keep forgetting he exists. For some reason, the way the scene played out I was starting to think it was Abe who had spirited his mother away for some reason. Now that would have been a twist. I'm glad there's closure on the whole Abigail mystery but, like many others, I'm not sure I buy her slashing her own throat just to prevent Adam from finding Henry. I think what they're going for was nobility - she loved Henry so much she'd sacrifice her own life to save him. But, that seems awfully drastic for someone who didn't even know exactly what Adam had in mind for Henry. It's not like he could kill him after all. I'm worried they're going to end the season on a huge cliff-hanger. 4 Link to comment
sinkwriter April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 But, that seems awfully drastic for someone who didn't even know exactly what Adam had in mind for Henry. It's not like he could kill him after all. What's worse is that he could torture Henry endlessly if he wanted to because Henry can't die. That's horrific. It's worse than him being able to kill Henry. 2 Link to comment
StaceyNotStacie April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 That was heartbreaking. I'm glad that we got some sort of closure regarding Abigail; I hope that we will continue to see her in flashbacks. I'm hopeful that since they mentioned "season finale" in the previews that this show will get another season. 3 Link to comment
smiley13 April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 I really, really hope TPTB at ABC do not kill this show. It is wonderful!! There is so much more to be told about Henry, Abe and the rest of them. It was so sad for them to learn that Abigail had been dead all this time, but was somewhat of a relief to find out that she had wanted Henry back and killed herself for him. I do hate that we did not get to fully see Abe's reaction to it all. Will Abe be upset that his Mother killed herself to save his Father? 2 Link to comment
proserpina65 April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 Henry didn't notice the youth of the first skeleton, but he also didn't notice broken ribs from chest compressions in the second. I think even I, as a total lay person, would notice broken ribs! I'm pretty sure Henry noticed the broken ribs, but attributed them to her having been thrown against the steering wheel/column during the accident. 2 Link to comment
zannej April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 Oh, I totally agree about that crazy coincidences happen all the time. A friend of mine from college got married and when I met her husband, it turned out that he went to my high school. We even graduated the same year (we never met because we went to a really big school but we knew a bunch of the same people). Another friend of mine from college moved from California to Florida where she met and married a guy who grew up in a tiny town in North Carolina. A few years later when a different friend of mine (who I met way after college) got married, I noticed a name in the wedding program was the same as my college friend's married last name. I turned out that the girl I met after college is my college friend's husband's cousin. I have had so many random coincidences like that in my life that I don't think it's weird when there are coincidences on tv. Truth is stranger than fiction! I know it seems too easy that Adam was in an accident and taken to the hospital where Abigail worked, but I have seen way weirder paths crossing in real life so it's hard for me to say that it happening on tv is unrealistic. Do you live in Sunnydale? Nope. but the town's name does end in "dale". Link to comment
txhorns79 April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 I enjoyed the episode, even if I rolled my eyes at Jo asking Henry point blank who Abigail was to him, and then apparently never following up for the answer. 1 Link to comment
shapeshifter April 24, 2015 Share April 24, 2015 (edited) I know a lot of people are talking about how convenient and unrealistic the coincidences are, but I've experienced some strange coincidences in my life. Like, my sister went to a rather exclusive school in the mainland US and when we were over on Guam we went on a boat trip. One of the people on the boat was familiar and it turned out she had gone to the same school at the same time as my sister...Yes, there are plenty of these stories in all of our lives, but I'm really expecting something more from this plot since we still have one more episode (at least, right? It's not officially canceled yet, right? there's hope...?).I'm guessing Adam purposely got into a motorcycle accident at a location where the closest hospital would be Abigail's--that he had figured out who she was. Maybe he intended to kidnap her to blackmail Henry (not sure what he was blackmailing him to do), and that is why she slit her throat. ETA: Best way for Adam to threaten Henry: Hurt Abigail or Abe. If Abigail believed Adam hadn't found Henry, she might have been protecting Abe. Edited April 24, 2015 by shapeshifter Link to comment
Netfoot April 24, 2015 Share April 24, 2015 Quick comment on something mentioned above -- how unlikely that Adam would be knocked off his bike and just happen to be treated by a nurse with connections to Henry. An impossible coincidence! No. If the motorcycle accident/meeting Abigail happened in isolation, then you could argue that it was stupendously unlikely. But Adam and Henry have shared the planet for 200 years. The day before the accident, Adam bought a burger from a woman... with no connection to Henry. And the day before that, he sat on the bus next to a woman... with no connection to Henry. But think how many interactions he has had with people, day after day, for 73,000 days. Eventually, he was bound to come across someone with a connection with Henry. And obviously, TPTB won't show us the tens of thousands of encounters before the significant one -- they will concentrate their efforts on this encounter. Now, nothing of what I've said is about the way he behaved when he met Abigail, or what he said, or what he deduced from her reaction. I don't believe an immortal man would blurt out the truth about his immortality so easily, to someone he's just met. And I think it is a bit of a stretch to believe he would draw the conclusion he did from her response to his revelation, because there are so many other more likely explanations for Abigail's reaction or lack thereof. The most obvious being that she simply disregarded his revelation as nonsense. The plot was definitely weak in that area. But I don't think there's anything fishy about Adam & Abigail crossing paths in the way that they did. If it hadn't been Abigail, it might have been his previous wife Nora, or his next one <name withheld>, or ten wives from now. 4 Link to comment
slothgirl April 24, 2015 Share April 24, 2015 (edited) how unlikely that Adam would be knocked off his bike and just happen to be treated by a nurse with connections to Henry. An impossible coincidence! No. I think the part that really stretches credulity is that he happened to meet her on the same night she took home a DV victim who ended up also getting killed the same day within minutes of Abigale leaving with Adam, and then minutes of the landlady dropping by (giving them the tip that the car wasn't seen on the ONLY road) thus creating TWO bodies and crimes to sort out, and after she wrote the letter, but before she had time to mail it etc, etc. Could Adam have run into Abigale at some point in his long life and her brief life? Yeah, maybe. Could it have happened on the ONE day in the ONE ten minute period that created such a quagmire of random chance misdirections and clues? Nah.. I'm still of the opinion that way too many stars had to align for this plot to work. They could have done the same plot with Adam without all the red herrings and given us more good character scenes in the available time. For your premise to work, they didn't need the other murder at all, and it really was too many unecessary Agatha Christie style twists and turns in a show whose strongest feature is the interaction between characters. Edited April 24, 2015 by slothgirl 1 Link to comment
snuffles April 25, 2015 Share April 25, 2015 I love this show but I am struggling with all the hand waving that has to be done. I agree with all the other coincidences/conveniences mentioned. Here are additional ones. Henry read Abigail's account of Adam's injuries and stated "no one could save him with those injuries", yet somehow Abigail, a nurse, did manage to stabilize and "save" him. Adam is a motorcycle vs car victim with extensive, life threatening injuries and they decided to let him hang out in the ER with Abigail instead of taking him immediately to the OR(?!). Or they did take him to the OR and then brought him back to the ER instead of the ICU? Henry and Abigail have super duper forgery skills (Henry, I guess I can give a pass on since he has been alive so long). Hospitals, police departments, etc are supposed to have extensive background checks on their employees for obvious reasons. On this show, those background checks do not exist. Henry can get away with living in New York, NY for almost 100 years using his SAME name including title of Doctor. If this show is cancelled, then the last scene of the last episode better not be Adam shooting Henry (with the gun that originally killed him). Link to comment
bros402 April 25, 2015 Share April 25, 2015 How many hospitals are there in NYC? Quite a few, but still-- a motorcycle accident victim will show up at the ER of one of a dozen, and a nurse working at an ER is a plausible contrivance. I thought it was more unusual that Adam didn't die immediately and had time to recover in the ER than that he wound up there, in Abigail's care, to start with. From what we've seen, Henry vaporizes pretty quickly, and Adam had to actively kill himself to get away. I also have no trouble believing that Adam would drive recklessly and get into accidents a lot, since he's morbidly obsessed with his own condition; this also ups the odds of him winding up in the ER where Abigail happens to work. Maybe the guy courts accidents. We saw him walking along a very narrow edge high above the street a couple of episodes ago, in high winds. Accident happened near Tarrytown, NY (aka Sleepy Hollow) Link to comment
henripootel April 25, 2015 Share April 25, 2015 I agree with all the other coincidences/conveniences mentioned. Let's add them up. -There are two immortals in the world and they just happened to be near each other. Quite possibly they've passed each other before in their long lives, so I'll buy coincidence. - Adam gets in a terrible accident but doesn't die, and is also not able to off himself quickly. - Adam gets attended by the one nurse on earth who knows about immortals. - Adam guesses correctly that Abigail is one of the few people on earth who knows about immortals, and from this that other immortals exist, a first for him (apparently) in 2000 years. Heck of a guess there. - Abigail meets Adam at the same time as a murder is a-brewing, and get's caught up in that murder. - The murder goes unsolved / nobody looks for Abigail. - Henry doesn't go looking for Abigail for 30 years, until after he meets Adam and finds out other immortals exist. - Henry eventually changes jobs, to the one profession he'd need to be practicing to find Abigail. - The first old nurse Henry meets at the hospital has been there for 30 years and remembers Abigail. - Based on an extremely sketchy witness from 30 years ago, Henry is able to accurately guess that Abigail met Adam - Henry is able to accurately reconstruct the crime without further evidence and find Abigail's bones. Two, maybe 3 of these together would likely put us into the 1,000,000 : 1 territory, but all of these have to happen in this order, or the plot ends there and then. Hard to be precise but Henry and Abe should totally buy some Powerball tickets. 2 Link to comment
attica April 25, 2015 Share April 25, 2015 I recognized Abigail's cottage from the teaser for the ep, and I was delighted that the show placed it in Tarrytown (which is where it actually is, on the grounds of the Lyndhurst castle -- you can visit there!), but I was mystified why the show, which takes place in NYC, seems to think Tarrytown is an isolated farming town. It's only a half an hour north of midtown, fer pete's sake, and there is no locale in the whole of the village that is 'miles away from the nearest neighbor'. Nor does it have a sheriff's presence -- which is something Sleepy Hollow does too, for reasons that escape me. Sleepy Hollow borders Tarrytown on the north. They both have municipal police forces. Anyway, I live nearby, and now I'm kicking myself I might have run into IG and ADG in town! Rats. 2 Link to comment
praeceptrix April 26, 2015 Share April 26, 2015 I recognized Abigail's cottage from the teaser for the ep, and I was delighted that the show placed it in Tarrytown (which is where it actually is, on the grounds of the Lyndhurst castle -- you can visit there!), but I was mystified why the show, which takes place in NYC, seems to think Tarrytown is an isolated farming town. It's only a half an hour north of midtown, fer pete's sake, and there is no locale in the whole of the village that is 'miles away from the nearest neighbor'. Nor does it have a sheriff's presence -- which is something Sleepy Hollow does too, for reasons that escape me. Sleepy Hollow borders Tarrytown on the north. They both have municipal police forces. Anyway, I live nearby, and now I'm kicking myself I might have run into IG and ADG in town! Rats. Yeah, the writers clearly don't realize that Tarrytown is within easy commuting distance! I feel your pain about missing the chance to run into IG & ADG, as they filmed in Kew Gardens & I missed them, too! 1 Link to comment
sjohnson April 26, 2015 Share April 26, 2015 (edited) The Julius Caesar thing has occurred to me too. With the cop being a murderer the lack of investigation into Abigail's disappearance is not a problem I think. Aside from putting Adam in the Tarrytown ER, the only aspect of the hit and run and the murder that affects the larger plot in the slightest is that it helps explain why there was no apparent investigation of her disappearance. Since a large investigation could still have missed finding her, in effect that really changes nothing, except to space some plot twists right before the commercials. The judge and the cop were just red herrings. As such, i don't find some contrivances there too damaging. Henry leaping to the conclusion that his existence the only thing Abigail would rather die than reveal, i.e., her only motive for an impromptu suicide, does I think point directly to Adam. The only other immortal coming into Abigail's ER of course is a gigantic contrivance. But I'm much more forgiving of contrivances that start plots than contrivances that finish them. But maybe that's just me. PS Jo and Hanson are (we hope) trained not to leap to conclusions. But I think while they are open to other explanations, Jo and Hanson both suspect Abe is Henry's father (and thus Abigail is grandmother.) But I think they also want to be good friends and don't want to pry into possibly embarrassing or even ugly revelations about where Henry's mother disappeared to, and why she left Abe denying any relationship. Edited April 26, 2015 by sjohnson 2 Link to comment
henripootel April 26, 2015 Share April 26, 2015 The judge and the cop were just red herrings. Not completely. Correct me if I'm wrong but the judge and the cop were part of what led Henry to conclude that a crime had occurred, which it had. If not for the murder, there would be no grave outside the cabin, and Henry and Abe would have continued on their way searching for clues as-to why Abigail left town abruptly and without a trace, again. The body in the grave was a red herring in that they thought it was Abigail's body, which led them to believe that Abigail was indeed dead. This jump-stared their investigation which revealed that it wasn't Abigail's body, but (as it turned out) Abigail was also dead, which led them to Abigail's body. I think it fair to say that were it not for the hugely coincidental murder of Abigail's patient (which had nothing to do with Adam or Abigail) at nearly exactly the same time and nearly exactly the same place, and both unsolved, Henry and Abe would have left Tarrytown none the wiser. Which might have led to an awkward phone call from Adam. Adam: So I see you finally figured out what happened to Abigail. Henry: Come again? Adam: Oh. I've been following you and I noticed you'd been to Abigail's cottage in Tarrytown, so I just assumed ... uh, never mind. Henry: who is this? 3 Link to comment
theatremouse April 26, 2015 Share April 26, 2015 Since a large investigation could still have missed finding her, in effect that really changes nothing, except to space some plot twists right before the commercials. The judge and the cop were just red herrings. As such, i don't find some contrivances there too damaging.Considering Henry went a very short way down the road and found the crashed car still sitting there 30 years later, I think a large investigation that didn't find anything, given her last-known-whereabouts under her pseudonym, would suggest massive incompetence. I'm still a little boggled as to how no one noticed that car there this whole time, even if we believe it was an out of the way road most wouldn't have any reason to go down or look for evidence of wrecked vehicles. It was just too easy to find when they did. Nobody looking for Abigail's fake identity is weird to me. But not weirder/clunkier than what this show usually serves up. 2 Link to comment
zannej May 2, 2015 Share May 2, 2015 I think the answer to the why no one launched an extensive search had something to do with the cop being corrupt and trying to cover. Plus, I've seen incompetence of that level with the local police force, so I don't find it far-fetched. Link to comment
Happytobehere May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 There is no doubt in my mind that had Abigail told Adam about Henry, he would have killed her the minute the words left her mouth; so he can stop with the I tried to save he BS. 3 Link to comment
Ceindreadh May 30, 2015 Share May 30, 2015 I think there must have been a missing scene in the ep when it aired here. It started with Henry and Abe opening up a box of bits and pieces and then went to the scene in the morgue with the first victim who they said had been in Abigail's garden. I was confused enough that I thought I'd missed an ep somewhere along the line. Link to comment
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