S08.E20: The Fortification Implementation

[chocolatine]

I agree with all of this. I don't remember if there is a Leonard Dad in the picture, however, his mom is a successful woman that I'm sure paid for Leonards education. Not buying it either. 

 

Have you seen Leonard's interactions with his mother? I wouldn't be so sure she paid for "needy baby, greedy baby"'s education. There's been a lot of talk about the mother giving preferential treatment to his two older siblings, so I can just see a scenario where she tapped herself out paying for the older kids' education, and when Leonard's turn came, told him he was on his own.

Edited April 11, 2015 by chocolatine

[sinkwriter]

 

Have you seen Leonard's interactions with his mother? I wouldn't be so sure she paid for "needy baby, greedy baby"'s education. There's been a lot of talk about the mother giving preferential treatment to his two older siblings, so I can just see a scenario where she tapped herself out paying for the older kids' education, and when Leonard's turn came, told him he was on his own.

 

I could see that happening.

 

But I could also see her being picky about where he goes to school, and insisting upon a first-rate education for him because anything less than that would be illogical.

 

Then again, if she thinks he's somehow "less than" his siblings, she might have simply given up and said "Go wherever you want; it's not like it will make much difference. You clearly don't have what it takes to reach the highest echelons in science." 

 

Hmm... I don't know. She's tough. I'm not sure how she would treat this situation.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Have you seen Leonard's interactions with his mother? I wouldn't be so sure she paid for "needy baby, greedy baby"'s education.

She might have if she thought it would do something about Leonard being her "disappointing child".

[CherryAmes]

Is Sheldon more responsible with money?  I recall an episode where he had a bunch of uncashed paychecks in drawer.  And there was the time he loaned Penny money and, in an very unSheldonlike manner, he was not at all concerned with how she spent the money or how soon she could pay it back.  (both could be from the same episode)

 

He must be making good enough money that he doesn't need to worry about money which makes Leonard suddenly being tied to student debt and money being a problem an even more unlikely scenario. 

 

I mean it's clear from the way they've handled Howard and Bernadette that the writers either haven't (a) bothered to find out what scientists/researchers/engineers at a university with X years of experience under their belt actually earn or (b) even if they have they consider that kind of income insignificant.  But it's a bit unreasonable that Howard and Leonard are portrayed as not doing well financially but Sheldon who can't be making all that much more than they are can afford to loan money and not worry about getting it back and not bother to cash cheques?  Sure.

 

With regard to Leonard and his mother, it's more than obvious the writers just pulled this student debt malarkey out of their hats - there is no way this whole subject wouldn't have come up in the past during one of Leonard's whiney moans about his terrible childhood and his cold, critical mom.  Especially if his parents paid for his siblings educations and didn't pay for his!!

Edited April 11, 2015 by CherryAmes

[anna0852]

I agree with all of this. I don't remember if there is a Leonard Dad in the picture, however, his mom is a successful woman that I'm sure paid for Leonards education. Not buying it either. 

Have you met Beverly Hofstadter? I highly doubt one parental cent was contributed to Leonards education and I suspect he preferred it that way. Any money from her would have resulted in massive amounts of scrutiny of not just grades but school choices, major's and even the topics of papers. I'm willing to bet money that Leonard wanted her purse strings nowhere near his college education and until this moment considered it money well spent.

[biakbiak]

IIRC, Howard only balked at tearing down the wall. He didn't say a word about stripping the floors, changing the lights, or getting new furniture. Hello, compromise.

 

Plus it wasn't even Bernadette's idea to take down the wall it was Raj so if they had already talked about the plans which seems to be the case because he didn't balk at her ideas it would be disconcerting.

[DrSpaceman]

Leonard...I hate you. Did Penny ever say that she no longer wanted to be an actress? Wasn't that job just so she would not be destitute while still looking for acting jobs? And how have they NEVER talked about money?

The idea of Howard's brother upsets me. There are enough cast members, and also, that makes Howard's father pretty much an ass, now there is no doubt.

I love Wil Wheaton. And it will be funny if Kaley ends up in Clerks III as Penny.

Bernadette, shut up. No matter how tacky that house is, you don't get to tear shit down.

No kidding, man, Leonard really is an ass.

Jesus your girlfriend gets offered to audition for a Kevin Smith movie and THAT is your response?

This is why I can never buy than as a serious couple. So many times these situations come up where they see life so differently. At least she tries and attempts to be supportive of him most of the time. His sole response always seems to be "Give up on acting and keep a safe job"

And seriously, he is single with no kids, has a good job, outside of rent has to be very low expenses, he has no money saved himself?

Wil Wheaton is always funny on here and I though Kevin Smith was hilarious. I hope he shows up again.

I liked the Beatles joke with Howard. I always thought his hair looked like Beatles hair.

I always pictured him as one of the Monkees, the Beatles rip off band.

I liked the podcast segment.  It brought back the jerkier version of Wil Wheaton, which is always more entertaining.  I don't necessarily want evil Wil Wheaton back, but he's been pretty boring ever since he made his way off of Sheldon's enemies list.  My one gripe is that I thought Leonard should have made a Silent Bob reference instead of just telling Kevin Smith to shut up.

 

I also liked the segment with Howard's brother.  Raj was hilarious and I loved the joke about Howard talking about going to Space.

 

Boring Shamy is boring.  The only thing I liked was the Leonard joke.  Community ruined all other blanket forts for me.

Thats exactly what I was thinking about blanket forts!! Nothing can top that community episode on the topic

[CleoCaesar]

Hated, hated, hated whiny Leonard. Also, the math doesn't add up. I did some Googling and found that

 

Salaries for research scientists in Pasadena are in the $50,000 to $115,000 range with those at Caltech having 'research' designations in the high end of that pay band.

 

Okay, so let's say Leonard makes around $90K. He has years of experience, many published papers, and some recognition in his field.

 

So, what, does that mean that rookie pharmacy rep Penny is making close to $200K, according to the premise of this episode? Bull. To quote a Pfizer rep, "But usually a base salary for a pharmaceutical sales rep with minimal experience, you’ll start out about $50,000 a year base salary. If you have a base salary of $50,000, you could make $20,000 in bonuses if you did real well."

 

Also, Leonard is paying off student loans? Two seconds of Googling will show that Leonard's alma mater, Princeton, has an amazing financial aid system. According to them, 75% of students graduate debt-free. And even if his eminent scientist parents didn't kick in for their only son's education (unlikely), wunderkind Leonard would have most certainly received grants and scholarships for undergrad. And his Princeton PhD would have been fully funded. He's in his mid-30s at least. What student loans is he paying off?

 

But whatever. He's a whiny, insecure douchebag.

[KatWay]

That whole plot was taken straight out of sitcom relationship drama 101. And it sucked. It makes no sense that Penny would outearn Leonard at this point, it makes no sense that Leonard somehow doesn't have savings or is pretty comfortable with money. There is NO way Leonard has student loans. Come on. He got his doctorate at 24 in a field which has grant money thrown at it compared to others and somehow he's in debt? Please. I hate it when shows ignore any sense of continuity or logic to get a plot done, especially when it's one of the same old tired "whiny man is jealous of successful wife/girlfriend/fiancée" plots. Didn't they already do this with Howard and Bernie? If they are running out of stuff to do at this point, I shudder to think where we'll end up in three years.

 

It's all just so stupid and tedious. That said, I'm an academic and spent years at university to get my qualifications and even I'm pissed that someone like Penny would hypothetically make that much more money than me because a) she's pretty and outgoing and b) she knew the right people at the right time. Yeah, it's the way of the world, but still....I could understand Leonard if he was coming from that perspective. But the show didn't even seem sure what exactly Leonard's perspective was, so, whatever.

[SmithW6079]

Blanket fort...cute, but it's been done. Troy and Abed own pillow forts.

Every plot under the sun has "been done." Shakespeare recycled plots.

[CherryAmes]

Okay, so let's say Leonard makes around $90K. He has years of experience, many published papers, and some recognition in his field.

 

I mentioned this in another thread but it irritates me so much I have to repeat myself -- it is damn condescending and insulting of the writers to make it seem like someone making this kind of money is barely scraping by!  I can't speak for everyone watching this show but I'd be surprised to hear that most are even making this much money, let alone more!  In my field (library work) only those who have been working, and working their way up the ladder, for at least 20 years are making money like that.  Sure you know going in that you aren't going to get rich but you are going to make a nice secure income that you can buy a house and raise a family on!  I hate, hate, hate that the writers have decided that people who aren't making in excess of $200,000 a year are failures.

[CleoCaesar]

I hate, hate, hate that the writers have decided that people who aren't making in excess of $200,000 a year are failures.

 

 

I think it was less a conscious decision than it was utter ignorance of faculty salaries at Cal Tech and utter laziness to just freaking Google them.

[adhoc]

Having caught random shows over the past year, and getting the BBT dvds from the library (just finished Season 3, awaiting Season 4), I just want to comment on how 66% of this episode sucked for me.  I mean, the writing--IMHO--was embarrassing. It was as if amateurs looked at past seasons and then tried to "write to the formula".  I cringed at some of the "jokes".

 

However lame the whole Leonard/Penny fighting was, I could not get past how contrived this piece of the episode was.  From Wil Wheaton conveniently driving over, to the lame opening dialog, to Leonard being asked to don a headset (Really? Come on, you knew that was just to conveniently allow him to be able to get into it with Penny or possibly Wil), to the whole out-of-left-field argument. Contrived, contrived, contrived. And that's saying something, for this show.

 

Then there was the half-brother arc. Handled better--and maybe over multiple episodes--it could have been interesting and even touching. Instead, the guy shows up, and there's a bit of "nothing" dialog--I mean come on, this is a huge event, where are the questions and the mixed emotions? I was glad that Howard was troubled by the sudden existence of a new half-brother, but then Howard has this sudden magical turnaround when what's-his-name asks about the astronaut picture. This is followed by the lame bit where Howard does a magic trick and of course the half-brother is ready to leave...  Was I supposed to laugh there? The whole tepid offering was the best the writers could come up with, when handed this huge story line opportunity?  And I resented them having Bernadette talk about bringing in a wrecking ball.  That's lazy-ass writing. "We can't think of any interesting ideas for this segment, let's just have Bernadette do her ol' "snarky Bernadette" thing."

 

The only segment that I found interesting--a little stale, but still interesting and worthwhile--was the Sheldon/Amy segment.  I haven't watched other shows with "forts," so I have no biases toward this or that fort.  I liked this just fine. And while I'm glad about the "sleepover" thing, I would like to see a little more forward motion on the Sheldon/Amy front.  I mean, I figure Sheldon will always need a "minder," and it will logically end up being Amy. I want to feel more sure that Sheldon will truly be able to meet Amy's long-term needs, which (from what I've seen, and I'm still catching up) include more than just being a "G"-rated girlfriend having a weekly date night.

 

[springtime]

 

Is it just me, or does Kaley Cuoco seem to talk with a pronounced lisp in recent episodes? I've always been annoyed at the constant pursing of her lips, but now it seems like she's adapting this other speech affectation, trying to sound cutesy or something.

Not just you- I noticed earlier in the season and mentioned it on her page in Nov:

 

 

Has anyone else noticed that Penny has developed an annoying and permanent lip movement/  "tsk" whenever she says a line?

[shapeshifter]

As for Howard, his father left, but we don't know for a fact if he just walked off or if his mother just told him that. And even if Howard's father abandoned the family, there's nothing to say a divorce didn't happen after that, although it seems strange that the father's name was still on the deed....

...We only know what Howard has said about his parent's breakup...

There was that episode in which the gang read different versions of the unopened birthday letter from Howard's dad, and Howard was allowed to choose his own version to believe. I don't recall any of them precisely, but I believe we were left with the sense that his father loved him and was sorry not to have been a better dad. Of course, it's quite possible that no one currently writing recalls that episode.

Anyway, the only reason I can think for the writers mentioning his father "signing off" on the house in the same episode that the half brother appears, is dun de dun duuun: Drama > Comedy.

Or was it clear that his father had actually already "signed off" before the brother appeared? Maybe they just wanted to make it clear that the brother had no competing claim to the house.

Edited April 12, 2015 by shapeshifter

[theatremouse]

If the father is alive the brother would have no competing claim to the house (today). If Howard's mother died and her ex-husband were still on the house, then it's still the father's house, not something Howard can inherit today. If as part of their divorce she was supposed to get the house, and that were documented from said decades-old divorce, and yet somehow his name were still on the title, I can see how that would need to be fixed, at which point Howard can/does inherit the house. Even if the father were dead I think the brother would also not really have a claim to the house because if it were in both Howard's parents' names and Mr. Walowitz predeceased her, then it's her house alone until she leaves it to Howard.

I know it was sort of implied since TV drah-mah-blah assumptions presumably Josh was surprised to have a brother because he thought he had a normal uneventful pleasant enough childhood and his father never mentioned it and that's the obvious second family spiel, but notably, Josh never identified his father as a good father or any of that. I hope they're not going there; I don't really want to see more of this plot, but theoretically Howard doesn't need to go through the whole "why was he good enough to be a parent to so-and-so but bailed on me" boringness since it could come out dude was just as bad the second go round. Of course, I guess I'm saying I don't actually want confirmation either way since I have zero interest in any more of this storyline.

[Zahdii]

I know it was sort of implied since TV drah-mah-blah assumptions presumably Josh was surprised to have a brother because he thought he had a normal uneventful pleasant enough childhood and his father never mentioned it and that's the obvious second family spiel, but notably, Josh never identified his father as a good father or any of that. I hope they're not going there; I don't really want to see more of this plot, but theoretically Howard doesn't need to go through the whole "why was he good enough to be a parent to so-and-so but bailed on me" boringness since it could come out dude was just as bad the second go round. Of course, I guess I'm saying I don't actually want confirmation either way since I have zero interest in any more of this storyline.

 

I hope that if we see any more of Howard's half brother, it'll only be because he made a strong enough impression on viewers to warrant bringing him back more.  IIRC, Amy was supposed to only show up on a show or two but the viewers took to her and now she's right there every week. 

 

Howard's brother might be back to help Howard through his abandonment issues, but I don't think he'll be moving in with Howard and Bernadette.  More likely Josh will be referenced in a throwaway line, if at all.  Howard mentions that Josh was just as surprised to learn of Howard as Howard was to learn about Josh.  They compared notes, and Howard finds out that growing up with dear ol' dad messed up Josh more than Howard was messed up, so he's now feeling better about not having the old man around.

 

There could be ways to bring back Josh once in a while, and each time we see a bit more growth in Howard as a result of being a big brother to a hero-worshipping younger brother.  It might be funny to see Josh developing a crush on Bernadette, but that should only last for one episode before he gets over it.

[CherryAmes]

What's unlikely about the whole inheritance thing, and this happens time and again in tvland, is how quickly estates get settled.  When my FIL died it took two years to get everything settled and signed off on - and this was an elderly man who died in a nursing home!  On TV they move into houses, distribute property and start spending money before the body is cold.  Just does not happen!

[Oldernowiser]

I've watched a few older episodes lately that involved the early days of Howard and Bernadette's relationship, and it was completely different. Bernadette was really sweet, did waaay too much of the compromising and was incredibly tolerant of Howard's skeeviness, emotional immaturity, and his weird relationship with his mother. More than once I've yelled at the screen for her to grow a pair and walk out.

Now it's 180 degrees the other direction. I guess the writers' rationale, if there is one, is that Howard wanted to marry his mother...there was an early episode where his mom went to the hospital, Bernadette snarked at him and sounded just like his mom, and he turned to the group and asked if anyone else found it sexy when she yelled like that.

So remembering the history, it's pretty hard for me to feel too sorry for Howard. He got what he wanted, at least in the parallel universe of the sitcom.

And honestly, if I were married to Howard I would have snapped a long time ago.

[Zahdii]

The only segment that I found interesting--a little stale, but still interesting and worthwhile--was the Sheldon/Amy segment.  I haven't watched other shows with "forts," so I have no biases toward this or that fort.  I liked this just fine.

 

OK, I refused to give my kids ideas for my last couple of birthdays and Christmases, because there really wasn't anything I wanted.  But I recently became a 'Community' fan and called in those past gift passes to get the first five seasons of Community on DVD.

 

If I could figure out how to post the blanket fort episodes to YouTube, I'd gladly do it so you could see how fun blanket forts can be.  Sheldon and Amy did a fine job.  Troy and Abed blew it out of the water!

[LoneHaranguer]

 

But it's a bit unreasonable that Howard and Leonard are portrayed as not doing well financially but Sheldon who can't be making all that much more than they are can afford to loan money and not worry about getting it back and not bother to cash cheques?

All of the guys have spending problems. Sheldon has an advantage in that he has earmarked money for things that don't exist yet, and won't for years. Presumably he only cashes checks as he needs to, but that will sometimes be because the check is about to expire, so he'll often have extra cash on hand he's "not using" and can loan out.

[azathoth]

Leonard way be whiny and insecure but I couldn't help siding with him considering some of the stupid shit Penny has done over the years. She was married to Zach for three years without realizing it and takes advice from psychics. When she said "I got a guy" to look after her money, my first reaction was they were setting up a story where she loses all her money to an embezzler. Especially if her "guy" is her psychic's cousin.

[DarkRaichu]

Lol, Penny is working in SALES. Leonard should should have been surprised if she HAD NOT made more than him in his academic position.  If Leonard is so concerned about his debts he should have worked on cleaning those up instead of spending his money on craps.  

 

I know this is sitcom but anyone engaged should really discuss their money situation with their partners BEFORE getting married.

[CherryAmes]

She was married to Zach for three years without realizing it and takes advice from psychics.

 

I'll grant the "marriage" storyline didn't put Penny in the brightest of lights but just because she has occasionally gone to a psychic doesn't really mean she's taking advice from them.  If she is I don't recall it really coming up any of the times that Penny was at a crossroads and needed to make a decision.

 

I really don't know what the writers are trying to do with Penny and Leonard when they have Penny making wise investment decisions and showing that Leonard is apparently still  carrying student debt at least 10 years after finishing school and working all that time in academia.  It's like they're hitting us over the head, once again, with the notion that as soon as a woman has some success in her life that has to mean the guy she is with takes on the secondary role and :gasp: becomes the little woman who can barely be trusted to balance a chequebook let alone make smart choices with money.  Aarrgh.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I really don't know what the writers are trying to do with Penny and Leonard when they have Penny making wise investment decisions and showing that Leonard is apparently still  carrying student debt at least 10 years after finishing school and working all that time in academia.

Students are often advised not to pay off their loans until they're successful and don't need to be in debt at all anymore; educational loans generally carry a favorable interest rate compared to the alternatives. The fact that Leonard was able to buy Penny a car when she needed one says that he does have some savings despite his spending habits and relative lack of success in his career, and I'm sure that amongst the junk he's collected over the years are at least a few items of real value should he be willing/forced to sell.

[CherryAmes]

The fact that Leonard was able to buy Penny a car when she needed one says that he does have some savings despite his spending habits and relative lack of success in his career, and I'm sure that amongst the junk he's collected over the years are at least a few items of real value should he be willing/forced to sell.

 

That's my point really, whatever may have been said about paying off a student loan that has pretty much zip to do with the way Leonard and his finances have been presented to us up to this point.  Not unlike the dining room table and Penny's bullying in high school this is a one show plot point that will likely never be mentioned again.

 

With regard to Leonard's relative lack of success - is that really something the show has been telling us or is this something Sheldon has been telling Leonard?  Sheldon, let's face it, is the one with delusions of grandeur (if his constant mentions of one day winning a Nobel Prize are anything to go by), just because he perceives Leonard as unsuccessful doesn't meant it's actually true.

[Eri]

Am I the only one who thought when Penny mentioned her investment guy and the whole stocks and bonds spiel, that she was just saying it to get a rise out of Leonard and succeeded when he didn't pick up on the sarcasm?

[LoneHaranguer]

 

With regard to Leonard's relative lack of success - is that really something the show has been telling us or is this something Sheldon has been telling Leonard?

In S2, Leonard admitted to his mother that he wasn't doing any original research, and the only work mentioned since that might have provided an opportunity was the DoD project that he told Penny couldn't be done. It's possible something will come from his new idea.

[KatWay]

 

In S2, Leonard admitted to his mother that he wasn't doing any original research, and the only work mentioned since that might have provided an opportunity was the DoD project that he told Penny couldn't be done.

That's the same ragging the show does on all the characters from time to time though. Leonard hasn't really been portrayed as unsuccessful in his field, outside of snide comments from Sheldon or his mom. He wasn't doing any original research at the time his mother asked, that doesn't exactly mean he's a failure at his job. He's been shown as valued by the university, he has a good office, had a shot at tenure, goes to conferences and writes papers regularly. He showed Penny he's handling a lot of pretty expensive looking stuff in his lab, so there's definitely some grant money there in his field.

 

And as for spending habits, I fail to see how Leonard is spending so much money he (allegedly) doesn't have. Penny was the one who was continually shown to be mooching off her friends, unable to pay for bills and debating whether or not to buy expensive shoes (and doing it). Leonard has never been shown as anything but comfortable with money, so this entire episode is just bullshit. I expect we'll never hear of these "student loans" again either, unless they want to do another rerun of Howard/Bernie 2.0 - the rich wife and her loser husband.

[LoneHaranguer]

Leonard is in the middle ground between failure and success, both in his career and financially. He doesn't have to worry about getting fired or paying his bills, but neither does he have anything to brag about on either front. More than anything he was upset at Penny's sudden success after he put in so much effort and expense to get to where he was. I used to know a woman with a Master's from MIT who expressed the same sentiment when her non-degreed boyfriend landed a new job with a 6-figure salary. Mentioning the loans was just part of Leonard whining about the situation.

[LaChavalina]

Okay, so let's say Leonard makes around $90K. He has years of experience, many published papers, and some recognition in his field.

 

So, what, does that mean that rookie pharmacy rep Penny is making close to $200K, according to the premise of this episode?

I'll say something that I'm sure has been said by everyone who's ever seen their own profession depicted on TV: The show has a totally unrealistic depiction of being a professor. When I worked at a research university the starting pay was mid-$60s, and that was for a social science field at a non-elite institution. Scientists started around $70K. $90K is probably a realistic estimate for someone like Leonard--at an elite school, good publications, in Physics. So, basically, yes-- We'd have to believe Penny makes $200K for this storyline to be true. Likewise, I call BS on the student loan garbage. I was envious of the Physics and Chem graduate students I knew in grad school because they had tuition remission, a stipend that was close to a living wage, and they could pick up extra money if they got on a grant or patented a discovery.

 

Of course, this is the same show that had the nonsensical tenure episode, where we find out that none of the guys (who've been working at the university for years!) are tenured, and it's suggested that the way to get tenure is to wait for someone to die, then ask HR to get their tenured line. Uh, what?

[chocolatine]

Of course, this is the same show that had the nonsensical tenure episode, where we find out that none of the guys (who've been working at the university for years!) are tenured, and it's suggested that the way to get tenure is to wait for someone to die, then ask HR to get their tenured line. Uh, what?

 

They also had Sheldon promoted to "Junior Professor", a title that doesn't exist at US universities.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

$90K is probably a realistic estimate for someone like Leonard--at an elite school, good publications, in Physics. So, basically, yes-- We'd have to believe Penny makes $200K for this storyline to be true.

Penny was probably talking about take-home pay rather than gross. After you account for expenses like insurance and retirement contributions, and the fact that you get a break on Social Security Taxes for salaries not much more than Leonard's, Penny may be grossing no more than an extra 50% or so.

[msani19]

So many have expressed the silliness of Penny/Leonard’s plot point. I took issue with the direction as soon as we learned Penny was going to be a super successful pharma rep & felt it was going to go this way. As I suspected, they have it so wrong that it’s comical (I guess that works since this is a comedy, but I digress!). So many companies have changed the way that reps are comped, and so little of it has to do with only physicians – besides so many don't even let reps to set foot in their offices. I spent yesterday doing session for clients on the changing incentive comp environment for reps, so this one irks me greatly! The very best reps make what they are suggesting Penny is making, and they have many years of experience and great relationships but even their pay has fallen quite a bit.  She’s been doing this for less than a year? Even pretending that every physician loves Penny and can’t wait to see her every time she shows up, they would have to be writing thousands of new prescriptions a month for her to hit the numbers they are suggesting. What type of product does she sell anyway? Ugh. I’ll stop. I know it was a way for them to introduce a new whiny Leonard angle and how he’s insecure in their relationship and blah blah blah.
Can no one on this show have a decent relationship?? Wow! I asked that question about a Chuck Lorre show…now that’s funny! Of course, they can’t – cause women are awful (Bernie, Penny, Redhead, & probably Amy anytime now). Get it! Get it!

[rubinia]

 

In my field (library work) only those who have been working, and working their way up the ladder, for at least 20 years are making money like that.

Nice! I'm a librarian as well and our most senior librarian has worked in the field for like 25 years and hasn't even broken 60k! And that's with 2 master's degrees. I'd be pissed about Penny out-earning me, too.

[CherryAmes]

Nice! I'm a librarian as well and our most senior librarian has worked in the field for like 25 years and hasn't even broken 60k!

 

I should have said I was thinking about librarians working for the federal government here in Ottawa, Canada :).  I worked as a chief librarian in a small town and was getting $55k when I left.  This was highest you could rise and also required a master's.  Yeah, I agree, I can see why Leonard would be annoyed.  On the other hand would it have bothered him if she'd made it big as an actress and was making even bigger bucks?  From my recollection of comments he made in earlier episodes it didn't sound like he would.

[Guest]

85.2€K is probably a realistic estimate for someone like Leonard--at an elite school, good publications, in Physics. So, basically, yes-- We'd have to believe Penny makes 189.32€K for this storyline to be true.

 

 

Exactly. I wanted to suspend disbelief and really get into this storyline. Leonard has always seen Penny as the finiancial underdog. Her failed actress thing has been played for laughs for a whle. It's been established that Leonard is the more successful one, and he actually likes taking care of Penny, and feeling a tiny bit good that he can. The role reversal could have been funny to explore. But I kept thinking about how grossly unrealistic it was and it ruined it for me. Penny CANNOT be making double Leonard's pay. I wish she were so they could actually have that conversation. But the show hasn't really sold me on the whole pharma rep career success that Penny has apparently been having.

 

Edited April 18, 2015 by Trichromatic

[LucyEth]

The whole idea that Penny is beautiful and sexy, therefore doctors are falling over themselves to buy drugs from her is ridiculous.  This show has stalled and is boring I find I DVR it and FF through most of it.  No one in their right mind  (Amy) would stay with Sheldon and put up with that situation, they need to move that storyline along.

[MaryMitch]

No one in their right mind  (Amy) would stay with Sheldon and put up with that situation, they need to move that storyline along.

 

I dunno - Amy and Sheldon have each said they love the other.  Amy puts up with a LOT, but from Sheldon's view, he's putting up with a lot too. She's changed his life and it unsettles him to realize that he's not totally in control of his life.

 

Amy is a wonderful character, and she has grown to the point where she regularly tells Sheldon "No, that's not acceptable behavior." And Sheldon listens to her and learns.

 

I myself could not put up with Sheldon. But Sheldon obviously has characteristics that Amy finds attractive. I love that they love each other; it gives me hope.

[CherryAmes]

No one in their right mind  (Amy) would stay with Sheldon and put up with that situation, they need to move that storyline along.

 

If you're hoping that they are going to end the Shamy I think you may be disappointed.  I could be wrong (this is a Chuck Lorre show so who knows!) but I'd be very surprised if the show ends and Amy and Sheldon have parted ways.  I'd expect Leonard and Penny to split long before Amy and Sheldon will, and I don't think they'll permanently split Penny and Leonard either.

[LucyEth]

If you're hoping that they are going to end the Shamy I think you may be disappointed.  I could be wrong (this is a Chuck Lorre show so who knows!) but I'd be very surprised if the show ends and Amy and Sheldon have parted ways.  I'd expect Leonard and Penny to split long before Amy and Sheldon will, and I don't think they'll permanently split Penny and Leonard either.

No not hoping they end the Shamy.  I like the Shamy.  I want them to move the relationship forward perhaps to a more of a physical relationship and maybe a possible engagement.  I think they have way more chemistry than Leonard and Penny, who in my opinion have none.  Actually Sheldon has more chemistry with Penny then Leonard.

[shapeshifter]

...No one in their right mind (Amy) would stay with Sheldon and put up with that situation...

It doesn't surprise me that Amy finds Sheldon acceptable. I am glad she's not a doormat and does let him know when he's crossed a line. But then I could not put up with my ex-husband's life style choices and odd habits, and was very surprised that a perfectly normal woman chose to marry him and stay with him and financially support him for the last 20 years. Come to think of it, Amy actually physically resembles my ex's wife, heh. But anyway, I'm not sure that Amy is always in her right mind.

ETA: I see now, LucyEth, that by "that situation" you meant the no-sex thing, right? I was thinking of other Sheldon traits, but that really is the main sticking point in the Shamy relationship.

Edited April 19, 2015 by shapeshifter

[LucyEth]

It doesn't surprise me that Amy finds Sheldon acceptable. I am glad she's not a doormat and does let him know when he's crossed a line. But then I could not put up with my ex-husband's life style choices and odd habits, and was very surprised that a perfectly normal woman chose to marry him and stay with him and financially support him for the last 20 years. Come to think of it, Amy actually physically resembles my ex's wife, heh. But anyway, I'm not sure that Amy is always in her right mind.

ETA: I see now, LucyEth, that by "that situation" you meant the no-sex thing, right? I was thinking of other Sheldon traits, but that really is the main sticking point in the Shamy relationship.

Yes, I think they have everything else, but need to include the physical aspect now.  Writer's are probably holding off for a big season or series finale episode for this to happen between Amy and Sheldon.