S05.E16: Conquer

[JBody]

My obsession with TWD has, mercifully, waned over the years.  Still, this was an excellent episode and pretty good finale.  Better than S3's finale, which is the low point in the show (for me).  That being said, I am pretty hyped about Morgan and Rick meeting up again after all this time.  I am scratching my head over Morgan's pacifist turn, after all he has been through, and based on when we last saw his crazy ass clearing everything in sight.  However, I hope he shares his new found wisdom with Rick, and his influence (and Michonne's) keeps Rick from his downward spiral of expediency.  We shall see.  Rick is the lead, he is the hero, so I can only assume that TPTB want to see how far they can push him before the audience turns on him.  The fireside chats served as reminders of all the good he had (still has) in him.  Carole, on the other hand, is very bad for Rick.  I enjoy her immensely, and I loved the her scene with Pete --her Ed do-over was delicious to watch-- but she is just adding fuel to the fire of Rick's craziness.  Even he had had enough of her byzantine scheming.  I was upset to see Glenn get left for dead more than once, but like a good horror movie villain he kept popping back up.  Thank God.  FPP is likely the most reviled character in TWD history so I can't wait to see what they do with him.

[sigmaforce86]

Okay, unpopular comment. You know, it's quite likely that had it not been for Rick and Carol, Reg might still be alive. But those two so got to Pete, that he snapped (even more so than a wife-beater would).

 

Now, I am NOT condoning what Pete was doing to his family. But I think you see my point.

 

I agree with you but then you have to figure that in the reverse if CDB had never shown up there it's pretty likely that Pete would eventually go to far and kill his wife and maybe his son too.  At some point the Alexandrians luck and utopian mind set was going to have to be shattered.  But Rick definitely accelerated that.

 

It would have gone a long way if a few members of the group had sat down with Deanna and Reg and said here's what we faced out there, here's what the people who are left are like.  Of course if they want to keep lying to them also then they'd have to be careful to amend their version and stick to one story (like keeping Carol's cover as a helpless person by leaving out her part in the Terminus rescue).  At the very least though if I were Maggie when Deanna looked at her all skeptical and said "you've lost a lot" (as though whatever it was doesn't compare to her son just dying) I wouldn't have been able to stop myself from saying something like well my Dad was beheaded right in front of me by a crazy man who tried to rape me and then he bombed our shelter splitting us up so I never saw my sister alive again; but please keep telling me how hard you have it here.

[Bruinsfan]

No matter how awful the characters get, we'll always be able to say "still not as bad as Lori."
 

When Rick got walker goo dumped on him like he was Jennifer Beals in Flashdance, I thought man, I hope all those wounds on your face are sealed up tight, buddy.

Yeah, even without whatever's animating the dead, Rick was all but motorboating a rotting corpse while sporting a faceful of fresh cuts. That can't be healthy.

[Zanne]

Viewers had such a viceral dislike of this place because it is so jarringly WRONG in the ZA world that is being presented.  But really that place is the American Dream in a nutshell.  It's what they SHOULD want. 

 

I think that is a large part of what led to the disconnect, as well. The American dream, the last shining light in the middle of a zombie apocalypse, is comprised of cowards and wife beaters, covered with a veneer of vapidness. Is that really worth saving?

 

This is totally my guess, but I think the usual plan is to take the person inside the gates to the empty loading dock area and kill the person there. After the person turns, they open the trucks, start the rave, and the new walker just load himself into one of the trucks. In this case, they got to the gates and saw the trap was sprung. Red Pancho panicked, so they killed him there, reloaded the trucks before he turned, and then -- with the yard cleared of walkers -- just rolled Red Pancho into the yard. Eventually, he'll be herded into the truck.

 

I think you're probably right about the plan (the logic of their thinking still escapes me!), but I believe they killed Red Poncho just outside the gates to distract the walkers inside. The walkers all came to the gates for fresh blood so the other guy could go in and reset the trap to get the walkers back into the trucks. One of them made a comment indicating it needed to be reset before killing Red Poncho.

[Timetoread]

I'm in the group that thinks Carol is becoming a joke and I'm guessing her clean plate comment will be the new Lets put that on a tee shirt! Not realistic and sorry Carol acting like a bully isn't justified because you were once bullied.

 

Sigh.  Just when I was ready to forgive and forget with Carol she becomes unlikable again.  It is scenes like that with Pete that sometimes make me want to smack the writers for not having had a V8.  It's supposed to showcase badass Carol, right?  And make Pete look weak because a 2 ft, 98lb woman with a blade threatens him?  This is the same, very large man, who held his own with RICK in a fight to the death.  He wasn't scared of Rick, or his knife, or his gun.  Here's my public service announcement:  Men need to stop perpetrating violence on women.  Period.  It is an epidemic that needs to be fought but what is NOT the answer is women perpetrating violence on MEN because they want revenge.  Or women thinking that because they've acquired fighting skills and chutzpah that they need to pick fights with men.  I was genuinely scared for her in that scene because Pete could have hurt or killed her in seconds.  Carol still can't take on a walker without falling to the ground.  And the toughest woman in that group, Michonne, is the only one to have had a full on fist fight with a large man, and while she eventually got the drop on him by removing his eye, the truth was that he nearly killed her.  That same man later kidnapped her by knocking her clean out with one punch.  So, yes, Carol needs to heal from Ed but this behavior isn't showing me that she has.

 

I was on the FPP Hate Train after what he said to Deanna, but seeing his and Sasha's breakdowns colliding and their prayer circle with Maggie, makes me hope for some redemption for him.  I realize he'll probably be exiled, unless Deanna/Rick/ruler du jour change some of the rules about that.  I'd love to see Seth Gilliam stay on.

 

It took me a while, consumed with rage and flu that I am, to understand why Maggie didn't tell the group what PP had said, or even address it with Deanna.  But I think I understand now.  I think his frightened rantings made Maggie look at the group as a stranger would.  Yes they've definitely earned their PTSD and borderline psychosis but they need to come inside and learn to use their inside voices again.  With FPP they basically walked in, took his church, manhandled and threatened him.  All of this was logical but, with the exception of Carl trying, nobody walked him through it.  They just dragged him along and told him to be thankful for them saving his life.  The have to show that they are toughened but not yet feral - or worse, rabid.  Only three of CDB truly understood this: Maggie, Carl and Michonne.  They were the only ones to treat the Alexandrians with compassion rather than disdain (forgive them father for they know not what they do).  Maggie realized that they needed to do this with the A's but also that they might need to do this with FPP as well.  We'll see next season if her gamble was correct.

 

I think Morgan and the wolves is less about them about more about him. I think he's afraid that if he kills any human, he will go back to the complete insanity he was in during "Clear," where he was so incoherent he nearly stabbed Rick to death. I think he can't do that because he is likely staying alive for the memory of his son and wife. And he can't deal with moral relativism.

 

I don't yet know if this is the case.  We've never seen Morgan kill a human.  He threatened Rick and Michonne but they fought back.  He had a lot of booby traps that may have done the dirty work for him.  I wonder if this is a new incarnation of the same Morgan who couldn't kill his wife that maybe doesn't want to kill humans yet.  I don't see a conflict coming with Rick.  Rick will ALWAYS make the hard choice if it will save his kids and extended family - Morgan understands and will ultimately respect that.  If Dwayne were sitting next to him when W showed up, I doubt he'd have let them live.  I think if there is any problem at all that will arise, it will be because Morgan envies Rick.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Timetoread

[Nashville]

So - did Rick shoot Pete, or Reg?  I'm betting Reg.

  

Can I ask a question (I could have sworn I saw someone mention this last night (maybe it was on the live page): 

 

Are we 100% Deanna was telling Rick to kill Pete . . . OR . . . her husband?  Yes, his head was barely hanging on after getting katana-ized, but he would have turned into a walker when he died. So, someone would have to put him down. Right???

 

So, who did Rick shoot?

  

Upon rewatch, I'm changing my call. Rick was directly facing Deanna (and Reg) when Deanna said, "Do it." At which point Rick turned - taking him away from facing Reg - and fired. So unless Rick was suddenly feeling all bad-hair-day homocidal and decided to pop a cap in somebody's random ass just for the hell of it, I think it's safe to say his target was Pete.

Maybe, but I wouldn't want to be the one to tell her she's not getting her dish back. I am loving Carol channeling both June Cleaver and Lizzie Borden, at the same time, but she does seem really, really close to the edge. 

 

Pete got off easy. If Carol had seen he'd broken her favorite Rejected Casserole dish, she'd have cut his throat with one of the shards and let him turn.

  

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this was done way before Lost -- "Kung Fu," anyone? Morgan is much like Caine in that he wanders the country looking for someone (crap, I think it was a relative...and Rick's the closest thing he has to family/friend), fights only when he has to, and does not want to kill. If he makes reference to pebble snatching, and pulls out a long flute, I'm gonna die laughing.

Actually, Caine was in America hiding out from a murder charge in China - a murder created on an occasion where he forgot his discipline and killed someone in an act of rage.

Might be interesting to see how closely Morgan's story parallels, eh...? :)

  

Can any of you Closed Caption junkies help?

When Pete comes to the meeting, what does Carol say to Rick? Do it now? Not Now?

"Not now." When Pete showed up with the katana, Rick immediately started to move towards Pete. Carol restrained Rick because she could tell Pete was on a self-destructive tear - not surprising, considered she helped fan its flames - and Carol wanted to see how far Pete would self-immolate before anybody had to step in.

I think by "take" he meant take Morgan to the food warehouse, like they did poncho guy. (Easier to transport them that way.) They get them there, kill them, and replenish their trap.

 

While all that is certainly true, I think there's also a deeper meaning. When Airhead Wolf and Morgan were talking, I got the distinct impression AW was saying, "We're not only taking your stuff, we're taking YOU. And I don't just mean we're taking your life, we're taking ALL of you - your spirit and free will included. You'll be our slave bitch even after you're dead. So just sit still and don't squirm while we assert dominance over your entire existence."

 

What I love about Abraham's "shit speech," is that neither the ocean nor shit usually come in grain form.

 

I dunno - sometimes the shitty can get pretty gritty. ;>

  

It just occurred to me assuming Gabriel wasn't stupid/suicidal/etc., had he closed and locked the gate like a normal human being, they still were just going to leave it unguarded like that?  So, basically, that would have meant Aaron/Daryl/Morgan would have had no way in.  I could just see them standing outside that gate for however long the meeting took; poor Aaron yelling "Guys!  Guys!!  Anyone?!", Daryl cussing up a storm, while Morgan's like "Not a great first impression, guys!" about it.

 

This exact same thought had crossed my mind as well - but I LOVED your imagery.

Seriously, Alexandra.  Even if you want to believe you are secluded from the real world, have a permanent gatekeeper. That's just common sense, guys.

 

Three points crossed my mind about this particular bit:

• Spencesr's laxness in his duty was a perfect example of the survival complacency rampant in the ASZ.
• Deanna's hissed "Go!!!" to Spencer illustrated one point with crystal clarity: if you need someone to lock the barn door after the horse has been stolen - or the walkers have already gotten inside - then Deanna's your woman.
• You forget, there was a bonfire going. Spencer had to get there and be seen to establish his alibi for the murder.

Whoops - scratch #3. Crossing plot lines with How To Get Away With Murder again.

 

Okay. Undoubtedly when the ZA comes for us, I'm a goner. I wouldn't last one hour… And no disrespect to my boy Daryl but even I could tell the food trucks were a trap. The hanging cans just seemed off to me.

In all honesty: I spotted the cans right off, but figured they were part of a tripwire warning for someone camping out in one or more of the trailers - although for trip alarms, their placement was exceedingly odd....

I do need to go back and watch it again though… Did all the doors open at the same time? Were they programmed that way? How did that Horde appear so quickly?

The tin cans were apparently loaded up with lead or something similarly heavy and served as a counterweight on the latches of the individual trailers. The trailer latches were rigged so that when the latch on ANY of them was pulled, the latches on ALL were released. Similarly all the trailer doors were rigged with weights or springs so the moment the latch was released, the trailer's roll-up back door would immediately roll wide open. Nifty piece of engineering, actually.

[meep.meep]

They were on some kind of pully system. When one opened, it triggered all the other to open.  Still, to me, it seems like a lot of work for . . . what???

 

It's a nifty trap, but what do they get out of it?

 

I loved the shot of Rick leaving his house, strolling along the sidewalk, passing the three Alexandrian men, and he's about half their height!  

[AndySmith]

The American dream, the last shining light in the middle of a zombie apocalypse, is comprised of cowards and wife beaters, covered with a veneer of vapidness. Is that really worth saving?

 

Eh, who cares about the American dream. The ASZ: Come for the promise of the American dream. Stay for the infrastructure and booze.

[Southshire]

What a boring and anticlimactic season finally! All buildup and no payoff. First off, they still need to cull the cast by half. Seriously just keep the originals such as Rick, Carol, Daryl, plus a few of the others like Michonne and Abraham. Wouldn't the finale have been great and shocking if they killed off half the dead weight - Father Gabri-fail, Tara, Rosita, Eugene, Sasha in one fell swoop? That's a finale we'd be talking about for good or bad!<br /><br />Plus, I think it would have made a much better impact on the Alexandra-ins if say 20 walkers got into the town and the Grimes Gang took them all out and showed the town why they need to listen to Rick and Co instead of being in denial that they're safe. Rick just showing up with one dead walker failed to provide the needed gut punch a viewer is looking for in a finale.

[kikismom]

  What was on the note Aaron found in the car? 

 

 Are mosquitoes that big an issue in late fall?

The note said that This is a trap bad guys coming get out of here....which our guys unfortunately read after it was too late to do them any good.

Yes, mosquitoes are a year round problem some places. Our town had two people dead and one hospitalized from West Nile virus and it was a cold night in February when it happened, so that's kind of a big issue.

 

I wasn't thrilled with those fireside feelings scenes, but I will say I did like seeing the juxtaposition of Carol here, vouching for Rick and his strength, with the end of season 2, the fire at night, when she told the group he sucked as a leader and they needed to start over. Sometimes it's hard to believe they're the same characters.

What?

I do remember Carol and Daryl whispering to each other, she asked if this seemed right to Daryl and he asked what did she want and she said a man of honor.

Then there was a separate whispered conversation with Maggie saying they should take their chances and Herschel had to convince her to stay with Rick.

I don't remember any part where Carol told the group that Rick sucked as a leader and they needed to start over.

If you have that part let me know where it is on the fireside scene so I can check it out.

 

Lenny's description surprised me somewhat.  My initial thought was also that Morgan was using the car horn as a dinner bell.  As Morgan's considerations for the sanctity of life were revealed, however, I had re-interpreted the car horn differently; i.e., that Morgan was letting any other Wolves in earshot know where they could find their "pack brothers".

I 'll throw in my take which is that LJ is just doing what Melissa McBride did on TTD when she said Carol was not threatening to do bad things to Sam herself, just that someone out there might. I believe that is becoming their tactic lately to pretend it was about something else and seem surprised that viewers saw it differently.

Last night even NR leaned over and looked at LJ when he said that; maybe to see if it looked like a sarcastic/joking remark.

 

So, when Morgan piled the two unconscious wolves on top of each other, was I the only one who thought, "I love my dead, gay son?" Just me then.

"And now they're even more popular than when they were alive!"

 

And why didn't Daryl at least *try* to hotwire the car once they were inside?

 

Because once they were inside they found the note that said the car was a trap?

I want Nicholas dead, Why does he want to kill Glenn so badly?  Is it because Glenn knows the truth? Well he and Glenn already both told their side of the story, so it would be kind of pointless to kill him now.

Nicholas told his side of the story on tape, to Deanna. Glenn only got to tell his side of the story to Rick.

 

The show is so very inconsistent and obscure with the size of the Alexandria community. Sometimes it seems like there's two dozen, sometimes a hundred. Couldn't they have given us a hint when Rick and Co. showed up, "welcome to Alexandria, we have about 100 people in our community but we need more."

We have talked about it here but there are so many posts to read. Back in the episode Them, when they meet Aaron, they learn that the ASZ has 30 people. CDB had 15. Then Noah died and Aiden died. Down to 43.  Now we know that Reg and Pete are dead, that makes 41. But will Morgan join; I would guess that would make 42.

[Timetoread]

I think that is a large part of what led to the disconnect, as well. The American dream, the last shining light in the middle of a zombie apocalypse, is comprised of cowards and wife beaters, covered with a veneer of vapidness. Is that really worth saving?

 

It always WAS comprised of that because society is comprised of that.  There is no such thing as a society of just nice people.  Our original survivors, going back to the beginning also had wife beaters, racists, possible rapists, alcoholics, we STILL have a killer in the group, and not one but two barely functioning cowards.  The point is that humanity in general is worth saving.  In order to live and thrive, they need a place to settle and be able to raise children.  The bad ones should be dealt with but you can't scrap the whole idea of society because there are bad ones.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Timetoread

[CletusMusashi]

1. Thank you for for mostly filming in daylight this week. Even the scenes that were shot at night weren't so bad. I like the slight red tinge better than that overwhelming blue they were using earlier in the season.

 

2. The makeup people can lighten up a little bit on Carl's rouge. Unless we're supposed to assume a subplot in which Enid keeps trying out new shades of blush on him. 

 

3. Daryl can't wear a shirt with sleeves, but he's comfortable running around in a full on motorcycle jacket?

 

4. If FPP insists on making these huge flamboyant gestures about the futility of life, he should take some lessons from Sasha. That dead-zombie crowd-surfing scene may have been crazy, but at least Sasha knows how to do crazy right.

 

5. As nicknames, I suggest that the longer-haired Unfair Wolf who talked Morgan's ass off be called Romulus, and the shorter-haired one who snuck up from behind be called Remus.

 

6. Little Red Poncho Guy got off easy, in the grand scene of Season 5 deaths. I mean, he's been rubbing leeks all over himself. Can you imagine how thrilled Gareth would have been?

 

7. I don't think Maggie saved FPP because "all life is precious." I think she wanted to drag his crazy ass to the meeting, so people would see what a worthless blubbering turd he was.

 

8. I liked the whole episode, but the Morgan and Carol scenes at the beginning were just too awesome for the rest to be nearly as good.

 

9. I wish I hadn't watched "Talking Dead," because before I did, I was quite happy with Morgan as he was written. But now I can't stop picturing him in a bowler hat, fighting zombies off with an umbrella. For some reason I don't get that with AL or LC, but with LJ I totally do. And before, I assumed he was eating soup when Romulus showed up, but now I'm quite certain it was tea. Probably decaffeinated, though, because that is one mellow badass.

 

10. I think nine is kind of a weird number to stop at.

Edited March 30, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[ghoulina]

but I just told myself that to Spencer and the town, Gabriel is a decent, if nervous, man, and shouldn't have a big problem with something as easy as closing a gate.

 

THIS is why, as many of you have already noted, these people need to be communicating with each other. A little "Hey, I just spoke with Gabriel and he was ranting about the devil in disguise and he seems really unhinged right now" from Deanna would have gone a long way. 

 

I actually think Pete seeing Rick leave Jessie's house (2 doors down, for Pete's sake-ha!) was what set him off, more so than Carol.

 

Agreed. Abusers tend to be really controlling and I think he just couldn't stand the idea of anyone having what was "his". 

[Zanne]

It always WAS comprised of that because society is comprised of that.  There is no such thing as a society of just nice people.

 

To quote the red-headed prophet Abraham, just because the world was shitty before, doesn't mean we have to save that shit now. The apocalypse could be a literal restart button. Alexandria could have molded their new society into something better (no wife beaters, for one), but they were afraid of change. That's why they are not true survivors. They're rats holding on to a sinking ship.

[Samx]

Yeah, even without whatever's animating the dead, Rick was all but motorboating a rotting corpse while sporting a faceful of fresh cuts. That can't be healthy.

 

Hee. That scene did feel oddly...sensual? Blech. They haven't really done a great job explaining how the infection can be transmitted because I thought open cuts/wounds could turn someone. 28 Days Later, this certainly is not.

[Timetoread]

To quote the red-headed prophet Abraham, just because the world was shitty before, doesn't mean we have to save that shit now. The apocalypse could be a literal restart button. Alexandria could have molded their new society into something better (no wife beaters, for one), but they were afraid of change. That's why they are not true survivors. They're rats holding on to a sinking ship.

 

So how does one build a utopia? Losing the wife beaters meant losing the doctors.  Nobody's going very far without one of those. CDB is still carting around their killer (Carol) should they put a bullet in her?  And they ARE true survivors because they are still on that sinking ship. 

[Ohwell]

Agreed. Abusers tend to be really controlling and I think he just couldn't stand the idea of anyone having what was "his".

Not just abusers though.  I think any man (or woman) would be upset seeing someone they know had eyes for their spouse, coming out of their house--again.  Rick would have found a way to kill Pete even if he hadn't been an abuser. 

[Timetoread]

To quote the red-headed prophet Abraham, just because the world was shitty before, doesn't mean we have to save that shit now. The apocalypse could be a literal restart button. Alexandria could have molded their new society into something better (no wife beaters, for one), but they were afraid of change. That's why they are not true survivors. They're rats holding on to a sinking ship.

 

So how does one build a utopia? Losing the wife beaters meant losing the doctors.  Nobody's going very far without one of those. CDB is still carting around their killer (Carol) should they put a bullet in her?  And they ARE true survivors because they are still on that sinking ship. 

[ghoulina]

No matter how awful the characters get, we'll always be able to say "still not as bad as Lori."

 

Not for me. Lori had her faults, to be sure, but I didn't hate her the way some did. I thought she was well-intentioned most of the time. I'd trade Father Pee Pants or Nicholas for her in a second. 

 

Little Red Poncho Guy got off easy, in the grand scene of Season 5 deaths, I mean, he's been rubbing leeks all over himself. Can you imagine how thrilled Gareth would have been?

 

Bahahahaha, you just won the internet for today!

[gaPeach]

I just loved this finale.  I don't need cliffhangers.  It set up next season very nicely I think.

 

I do worry that Glen got bit.  But if he didn't I worry that the Wolves will get him and Nicholas before they can get back inside the wall.  Then I can see Nicholas meeting a horrible death just before Glen gets rescued.

 

During the campfire chat/meeting I looked around and realized our people made up most of the group there.  I am going to assume a lot of people didn't feel like going.  Or had to babysit since there were no kids there.

 

And I thought having Rick fight the Zombies alone and so quietly was wrong.  It would have been better if he ran to the campfire meeting to warn everyone and the zombies showed up so the towns people could see first hand the dangers that lurk beyond the walls.

 

I love Carol but I really thought she over did the helpless female act at the campfire and thought Deanne was about to call her on it. 

 

I too don't get what the Wolves are doing?  Do they just like to kill people?  Or do they capture them for their entertainment?  It makes no sense but I think there are a lot of people out there that are only contained because there are laws but if those laws were gone the psychos would be out in droves......yeah not much of optimist of the human race I guess. And like someone posted up thread they seemed to organized to be all cray cray.  I am certain that the 3 people kicked out of Alexandra are most likely the ones in charge.  But why did they not come back to Alexandra right away and take over.  Its not like they couldn't because the Alexandrians are clueless.  Or are they making their way back and picking up like minded crazies to help take over?

[ghoulina]

Rick would have found a way to kill Pete even if he hadn't been an abuser.

 

I really cannot agree with that. I don't think Rick is that far gone yet. I think he has toyed with some pretty unsavory ideas, but ultimately pulled himself (with some help from Michonne) back from the brink. 

[Pete Martell]

And that was really my point.  While I can agree that some of the shit that CDB went through is, in fact, unbelievable even though it did happen, I still think CDB could have given enough of a synopsis so that the Alexandrians would believe how dangerous it was out there.  I believe they would have agreed with Rick and Co. and worked together on the defenses, just as the guys agreed to work under Abraham.  

 

Even with Abraham, it took leaving a woman to die and said woman knocking one of them on their ass to get them to wake up, and even then, it was iffy. 

 

I think these people were clinging to their delusions for dear life and it took something serious to get Deanna to wake up.

 

With that said, I do agree with you about Rick and Carol and how OTT the writing has been. I really hope this is toned down. If, as some have said, Carol was mostly acting the way she was to get a reaction out of Pete, then I can buy it more, but it's still too cartoonish to sustain a character. 

 

I also felt like they were suggesting Michonne and Carol were the "angel" or "devil" on Rick's shoulders, and I don't love that either. They are a lot more than this. 

[kikismom]

I loved Michonne telling Rick she only knocked him out to protect him and that she was always on his side.  Why Rick is wasting his time with Bland Blonde Plot Contrivance is beyond me.

I love her strength and bravery and protection. But you want to be stronger and smarter than him; and also make his heart pound (not to mention other parts of his body? Sunshine, you can't have it both ways. Maybe if animals including humans were designed differently. But I think if you took a poll and asked men

Would you like a friendship with someone who saves you or with someone you have to save---- men would say someone who saves me..

.Would you be sexually attracted by rescuing a woman or a woman rescuing you ----men would say rescuing a woman.

 

 

To be fair...everyone on the show has to suffer from idiot plotting. It's like an initiation.

 

Yeah! Everyone!

I just didn't understand the whole Alexandria scenario.   All CDB had to do when they first got there is call a meeting and explain why defenses were necessary.  It wasn't even necessary for CDB to go all of the gory details of what happened to them, maybe just give some examples.  I think Deanna and the others would have agreed with CDB and they would have worked together.  But Rick and Carol went in thinking "oh these people are so stupid we're gonna have to kill them and take over," which is why I can't stand either of them now. 

All they had to do, as new people on charity, when starving and dependent on the offer of a safe shelter and food for the baby etc,, was to call a meeting---tell their benefactors to sit down and be educated about how the place should be run. Not a good move.

I believe RIck did tell Deanna why the supports were dangerous and the wall could be easily breached. She blew him off. Glenn and Tara tried to talk to people, got sneered off.

Edited March 30, 2015 by kikismom

[BeatLA24]

No, not really the best finale ever. It was OK.

Morgan on TD. He's British.

A few thoughts:

FPP came back from killing two walkers with a pristine white shirt and got no blood or gore on it?

The Wolves are only those two guys?

A very small group at the Alexandria meeting, I thought there would be more people than that.

 

I'm thinking that the Unfair Wolves shown are going to be a part of a bigger group for next season. I must not have been paying close attention, because I initially thought the ones that killed Red Poncho were different guys.

 

On Lennie James; the first thing I ever saw him in was Snatch, so I knew he was British before even seeing him on this show.

[Bad Example]

 

6. Little Red Poncho Guy got off easy, in the grand scene of Season 5 deaths. I mean, he's been rubbing leeks all over himself. Can you imagine how thrilled Gareth would have been?

 

 

You just made my day.

[Pete Martell]

What a boring and anticlimactic season finally! All buildup and no payoff. First off, they still need to cull the cast by half. Seriously just keep the originals such as Rick, Carol, Daryl, plus a few of the others like Michonne and Abraham. Wouldn't the finale have been great and shocking if they killed off half the dead weight - Father Gabri-fail, Tara, Rosita, Eugene, Sasha in one fell swoop? That's a finale we'd be talking about for good or bad!<br /><br />Plus, I think it would have made a much better impact on the Alexandra-ins if say 20 walkers got into the town and the Grimes Gang took them all out and showed the town why they need to listen to Rick and Co instead of being in denial that they're safe. Rick just showing up with one dead walker failed to provide the needed gut punch a viewer is looking for in a finale.

 

I can't think of a better way to guarantee I would never watch this show again.

[Zanne]

So how does one build a utopia? Losing the wife beaters meant losing the doctors. 

 

In Alexandria's case, several posters made some excellent suggestions regarding the Pete situation. Take away the alcohol, move the wife and children to another house, don't let him beat his family. They had the capability of exerting some control to make things better, and they chose not to. It's not like Pete would choose to leave. He'd fall in line or learn that things could get far less plush. I don't think being a doctor should excuse him 100% from what he'd done.

[Helena Dax]

My love for Carol knows no limits. I'm not sure she could be labeled as good, but I don't care. The way she set Pete up... She knew he'd be pissed enough to go to the meeting and try something. Awesome.

 

I was so worried for Daryl and Glenn... I'm really surprised our group didn't lose anyone in the finale. I'm starting to ship Daryl with Aaron A LOT. Their scenes together were great, especially the one inside the car. And Glen... I love that he didn't kill that moron, even if said moron deserved it.

 

I liked Michonne a lot. Her instincts are always good.

 

FPP should be dead  ten times by now. I sort of liked his bertrayal last episode because it made him interesting, but in this episode he was boring again.

 

The Wolves remind me of the people in The Hills Have Eyes. And I totally want  them dead. 

[Ellaria]

My obsession with TWD has, mercifully, waned over the years.  Still, this was an excellent episode and pretty good finale.  Better than S3's finale, which is the low point in the show (for me).  That being said, I am pretty hyped about Morgan and Rick meeting up again after all this time.  I am scratching my head over Morgan's pacifist turn, after all he has been through, and based on when we last saw his crazy ass clearing everything in sight.  However, I hope he shares his new found wisdom with Rick, and his influence (and Michonne's) keeps Rick from his downward spiral of expediency.  We shall see.  Rick is the lead, he is the hero, so I can only assume that TPTB want to see how far they can push him before the audience turns on him.  The fireside chats served as reminders of all the good he had (still has) in him.  Carole, on the other hand, is very bad for Rick.  I enjoy her immensely, and I loved the her scene with Pete --her Ed do-over was delicious to watch-- but she is just adding fuel to the fire of Rick's craziness.  Even he had had enough of her byzantine scheming.  I was upset to see Glenn get left for dead more than once, but like a good horror movie villain he kept popping back up.  Thank God.  FPP is likely the most reviled character in TWD history so I can't wait to see what they do with him.

 

Such an awesome post. I agree that we may soon be at a tipping point with Rick and his frequent trips on the crazy train. I would also like to see Andy Lincoln's lovely face without blood smears for more than three subsequent episodes.

 

I enjoy Carol as well but I'm hoping that the Lady Macbeth stuff will get dropped. Let's go back to the Carol that we saw in the latter part of the prison story line - as a counselor/adviser and trainer. Just don't let her near sick people.

 

I am still confused about the Glenn/Nicholas stuff. Why did Glenn go chasing after him? Why not let Nicholas become walker chow? Glenn is one of my favorites so I hate to see him run off and do something irrational.

 

Agree on Gabriel. I suspect that he is the new Lori - a character that will stick around way past their usefulness.

[CletusMusashi]

I still can't used to Abraham in a jacket, but at least he gets it. The ASZhats will no longer tolerate wife beaters.

[Pete Martell]

Hee. That scene did feel oddly...sensual? Blech. They haven't really done a great job explaining how the infection can be transmitted because I thought open cuts/wounds could turn someone. 28 Days Later, this certainly is not.

 

Andrew Lincoln's a very sensual guy, so maybe it was just that, but I did wonder if that scene was supposed to be oddly sexual or not. Right down to the...spray at the end. 

 

I guess Rick finally did get some after all.

[kikismom]

I think Carol mentioned the bisque..............

You win the internetz!

[Nashville]

3. Daryl can't wear a shirt with sleeves, but he's comfortable running around in a full on motorcycle jacket?

 

Riding gear is an issue of function, not fashion.

Anyone who thinks different has never been booming it on a bike down the back roads and run into a swarm of cicadas.

Although, by the same token, Daryl's lack of a helmet is stupid beyond compare. Between the potholes, washouts, abandoned vehicles and assorted body parts strewn all over the highways of this once-great post-ZA nation, the occasional laydown is GONNA happen - and when BikerBoi does pull a Humpty-Dumpty, ain't no ERs around for all the King's men to carry the pieces for reassembly.

[Pete Martell]

What?

I do remember Carol and Daryl whispering to each other, she asked if this seemed right to Daryl and he asked what did she want and she said a man of honor.

Then there was a separate whispered conversation with Maggie saying they should take their chances and Herschel had to convince her to stay with Rick.

I don't remember any part where Carol told the group that Rick sucked as a leader and they needed to start over.

If you have that part let me know where it is on the fireside scene so I can check it out.

 

I haven't seen it in a few years so I probably added to it in my head. 

 

This is what I meant (from the TWD Wiki):

 

Huddled around a campfire, the others continue to question Rick's leadership. Carol tells Daryl he should lead the group as a man of honor. "Rick has honor," Daryl insists. Maggie, too, tries to convince Glenn to abandon the others, but Hershel shuts her down. A noise echoes in the distance. Still, Rick refuses to let anyone investigate. Carol urges Rick to take action and he snaps, saying he never asked to be put in charge. "I killed my best friend for you people!," he snaps at the group. Carl buries his head in Lori's shoulder, crying. Rick explains that Shane staged the incident with Randall so he could kill him. Shane gave him no choice.

[hoosiermommy]

Remind me: Next time I have to go to a meeting with the bosses to decide whether I stay or not, to carry a dead walker on my shoulder.

The Zombie Drop is the new Mic Drop.

Just walk off the stage...

[JackONeill]

One small thing I haven't seen anyone else mention (if you have, sorry).  After Carol left Pete, and he dropped her dish, he went into the other room. Normally, they would have ended the scene then. Both characters were gone from the camera. But suddenly, you heard Pete, "This isn't my house."  Now I could be wrong, because my memory's faulty - I've already forgotten how to spell my last name (again) -- but he didn't sound pissed, But, rather, dejected, depressed.  I think that was the tipping point.

[kikismom]

Does anyone yet know who this referred to?

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZnEvTzqAqQ4/maxresdefault.jpg

[Pete Martell]

One small thing I haven't seen anyone else mention (if you have, sorry).  After Carol left Pete, and he dropped her dish, he went into the other room. Normally, they would have ended the scene then. Both characters were gone from the camera. But suddenly, you heard Pete, "This isn't my house."  Now I could be wrong, because my memory's faulty - I've already forgotten how to spell my last name (again) -- but he didn't sound pissed, But, rather, dejected, depressed.  I think that was the tipping point.

 

I heard it too. 

 

I said this in the episode pre-thread but I wanted him to start singing "This Used To Be My Playground."

Does anyone yet know who this referred to?

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZnEvTzqAqQ4/maxresdefault.jpg

 

Maybe they meant Pete, if he was supposed to be the nice town doctor.

[RustbeltWriter]

There's also no way Aaron and Darryl couldn't hear 50 walkers banging around in those trucks. It's not like they take a nap, when they run into the wall at Alexandria, they bang on it.

 

 

 

There were mattresses tied to the walls of the trailers. I imagine that was to deaden the sound of them lurching around inside.

[JackONeill]

Does anyone yet know who this referred to?

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZnEvTzqAqQ4/maxresdefault.jpg

Probably meant Reg. He seemed perfectly alive at the beginning of the episode.

[CletusMusashi]

Riding gear is an issue of function, not fashion.

Anyone who thinks different has never been booming it on a bike down the back roads and run into a swarm of cicadas.

Although, by the same token, Daryl's lack of a helmet is stupid beyond compare. Between the potholes, washouts, abandoned vehicles and assorted body parts strewn all over the highways of this once-great post-ZA nation, the occasional laydown is GONNA happen - and when BikerBoi does pull a Humpty-Dumpty, ain't no ERs around for all the King's men to carry the pieces for reassembly.

In real life, I agree. But we've seen Daryl on bikes before, a million times. Always sleeveless. That's what makes me think he was holding out until he could look like Fonzie.

[JackONeill]

In real life, I agree. But we've seen Daryl on bikes before, a million times. Always sleeveless. That's what makes me think he was holding out until he could look like Fonzie.

Jumping the shark.  Not good.

[SoSueMe]

At least one teeny little cliffhanger for me. How will the Glenn/Nicholas dynamic work out? I don't have much faith in Nicholas having a crisis of conscience and seeing the light, I don't think he is hardwired that way. Also I hope Glenn wasn't bitten (I keep thinking of Bob).

 

And I always have one foot in real life so I feel kind of bad for the dude playing Nicholas. Hard to picture him getting much love at Comic con. 

[nachomama]

Riding gear is an issue of function, not fashion.

Anyone who thinks different has never been booming it on a bike down the back roads and run into a swarm of cicadas.

Although, by the same token, Daryl's lack of a helmet is stupid beyond compare. Between the potholes, washouts, abandoned vehicles and assorted body parts strewn all over the highways of this once-great post-ZA nation, the occasional laydown is GONNA happen - and when BikerBoi does pull a Humpty-Dumpty, ain't no ERs around for all the King's men to carry the pieces for reassembly.

He wants to make sure that if he crashes that he doesn't come back as a zombie, no helmet he hopes scrambles his brain.

[RustbeltWriter]

That front gate needs a sally port where only one gate can be open at a time, kind of like what the prison had. It's crazy that opening one gate puts the whole town at risk.

[catrox14]

[snip]...Rick would have found a way to kill Pete even if he hadn't been an abuser. 

 

That is a huge assumption to make that Rick would have killed Pete anyway.  Rick had a chance to kill Pete a couple of times and he didn't do it. He killed him only after Pete killed Reg.

[Persnickety1]

Eh, who cares about the American dream. The ASZ: Come for the promise of the American dream. Stay for the infrastructure and booze.

 

And the coffee.

 

That's all it would take to keep my comfort-loving ass parked there.  

 

If I'm inevitably going to die in the ZA, I'd prefer do so with a freshly-brewed cup of java in my caffeine-addicted hands.  

[GodsBeloved]

He killed him only after Pete killed Reg.

And he waited until Deanna gave the go ahead.

[SoSueMe]

Hmmm, another mini cliffhanger. Carl is maybe attempting a romance with Enid who may or may not have some kind of preliminary relationship with Jessie's and Pete's older boy. And guess who killed that older boy's dad.....

[ghoulina]

In Alexandria's case, several posters made some excellent suggestions regarding the Pete situation. Take away the alcohol, move the wife and children to another house, don't let him beat his family.

 

Major fail on the part of the ASZhats for just putting Pete in another house and dusting their hands off, as if that was all it took. Someone as volatile as he had proven to be should have had a guard on him at all times. But who am I kidding? They can't even guard their community adequately!

 

Maybe they meant Pete, if he was supposed to be the nice town doctor.

 

Yet he was a porch dick to Rick in his very first episode. 

 

Yea, I don't know who is not what they seem. Carol? To the ASZhats, not us? Seriously....not a lot was shocking in this backhalf.