Going Clear: Scientology And The Prison Of Belief

[BatmanBeatles]

Eek! I just pictured a Rosemary's Baby scenario with Katie Holmes.

[Snow Apple]

Basically, I really hope there's an expiration date on any of Katie Holmes NDAs because the tell all would be epic. 

Yeah. I'm wondering what will happen when Suri turns 18.

[iMonrey]

 

I hope more people take Leah Remini and Paul Haggis' path and just nope the fuck out of the whole thing.

 

Sadly I've read interviews with Remini in which she still expresses devotion to and belief in the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard. It's Miscavige and the church's strong-arming tactics when she inquired after Shelly Miscavige that caused her to leave the church. 

[RedheadZombie]

It also seems like Tom probably would have ended up leaving had Miscavige not offered him the world.  If Tom were just a hair less narcissistic things could have been very different.  He's the opposite of Haggis.  The catalyst for Haggis leaving was his love for his daughters super-ceding his indoctrination.  They were being mistreated and he couldn't overlook that the way he did the other offenses.  Tom, though, was described as being crazy in love with Nicole yet he turned his back on her in favor of his indoctrination.

 

Another hope I have is that Travolta will one day find the courage to leave.  Whatever they've got on him (maybe he's gay, maybe he revealed something else), I think is enough for him to believe that he will lose everything but I am confident that the opposite will happen.  If he manages to leave he will have the support of so many fans, colleagues and Oprah.  It'd be nice to see but I have a feeling he never will and I find that sad.  Cruise, on the other hand, I couldn't care less about.  I hope everyone ends up leaving and he and Miscavige find themselves in an empty Celebrity Center wondering where everyone went.

 

You're right about Tom.  He had to be an egomaniac to even believe what they apparently told him.  He's openly talked about his ability to get people over their cocaine addictions - by his power alone.  Not to mention that he hasn't been ill in over a decade because he has the power to prevent illness.  I do think you're wrong about Nicole.  I think Tom obviously loved her at one time - he dumped his first wife for her.  But he was already involved in an affair with Penelope Cruz when he left Nicole, and Cameron Crowe made the notoriously insensitive remark about how beautiful it was to watch Cruz/Cruise fall in love on set.

 

I have much less sympathy for John Travolta.  He's sexually harassed and assaulted male masseuses.  He's not a tragically closeted man (IMO) as much as a sexual predator who quite possibly withheld proper treatment to his son, who died as a consequence.  I find Travolta to be the creepiest of all.  Images of him in his fake pilot uniform gross me out.

[Proclone]

Sadly I've read interviews with Remini in which she still expresses devotion to and belief in the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard. It's Miscavige and the church's strong-arming tactics when she inquired after Shelly Miscavige that caused her to leave the church. 

 

To be fair, as crazy as the beliefs of Scientology are I don't really think that they are the dangerous part.  Sure, believing Xenu dropped thetans into volcanoes is nuts, but that belief in and of itself doesn't really hurt anyone.  What is dangerous are the actions of the Church when comes to abusing it's members and harassing (and that actually seems to be too mild a word to use for what they do) their ex-members, and the level of control over it exercises over the lives of it's members.  That's what makes it a cult.  So I actually give Remini credit for being able to separate her religious beliefs (even if I do think they're nuts) from the actions of the Church and realize what they are doing is wrong.

[Kromm]

Sadly I've read interviews with Remini in which she still expresses devotion to and belief in the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard. It's Miscavige and the church's strong-arming tactics when she inquired after Shelly Miscavige that caused her to leave the church. 

It depends on WHICH Hubbard beliefs, I suppose.  As stupid and hilarious as the Alien Ghosts shit is, it's ultimately harmless.  Even the idea of self-improvement through some of their basic techniques isn't massively harmful in of itself, because a lot of them are basically "mind over matter" type heal-thyself things.  and there are far worse things than being able to meditate or talk yourself out of a funk/into a positive mindframe.  But it's when you get beyond those real basics that it gets nutty and dangerous.  Decrying all psychiatric treatments simply because they didn't buy into Hubbard's medicine show six decades ago?  Treating drug addictions with vitamins and strapping people to beds to sweat it out, because a man with no medical eduction thought it was a good idea? Denying autism (and many other) conditions even exist because they think "evil psychiatrists" somehow invented the conditions? Believing that children, because they contain all these ancient thetans, are basically mini-adults and should be raised without traditional discipline or education (although apparently using them as slave labor is okay if they aren't rich celeb kids)? And of course Hubbard had tons of misogynistic beliefs, anti-homosexual beliefs, etc. which show up in the Scientology course materials Leah apparently still wants to honor and believe.

 

So while I think it's been a good thing her turning on the CoS, there's only so far you can go in lauding her.  And in addition, even if it was under coercion, she still led some pretty viscous attacks (on various radio shows and media interviews) before he abandonment, on opponents of Scientology.  Because well... doing so isn't just because David Miscavage is a meanie.  Hubbard himself, in those beliefs Leah still wants to apparently celebrate, laid out all that stuff about suppressive persons, disconnection, how lying and terrorizing people is okay in service of your "religion", etc.  That stuff is all, literally, Hubbard Gospel.

To be fair, as crazy as the beliefs of Scientology are I don't really think that they are the dangerous part.  Sure, believing Xenu dropped thetans into volcanoes is nuts, but that belief in and of itself doesn't really hurt anyone.  What is dangerous are the actions of the Church when comes to abusing it's members and harassing (and that actually seems to be too mild a word to use for what they do) their ex-members, and the level of control over it exercises over the lives of it's members.  That's what makes it a cult.  So I actually give Remini credit for being able to separate her religious beliefs (even if I do think they're nuts) from the actions of the Church and realize what they are doing is wrong.

Ah, but again, the "beliefs" encompass more than stories about alien warlords dropping thetans into volcanos.  The beliefs also include direct statements from Hubbard about the things I spoke about earlier in this post.  Denying psychiatry totally. Denying much of medicine they don't agree with.  Normal drug treatment methods.  Anything close to real educational standards.  The idea of fairness or sanity when dealing with nonbelievers.  That's all in the basket labeled "beliefs", if people like Leah Remini are to be believed that L. Ron was just falsely supplanted by bad old Miscavage.

[psychoticstate]

I thought the documentary was very well done.  No huge surprises for me as I've been reading about the crazy Scienos for years but I imagine for anyone not readily familiar with them, it would be scary.

 

I'm disappointed they didn't mention that Charles Manson investigated them and their teachings back in the 60s and declared them too weird for him.  That pretty much says it all, doesn't it?  If a fucknut like Manson thinks you're too weird for him, there's problems.

 

Regarding Katie Holmes - - while I'm glad for Suri's sake that she's out of that crazy environment, I can't give her too many props since Katie willingly entered into the deal with Cruise and the CO$, knowing full well she was bringing her child into that (count me as one who believes anyone other than Cruise impregnated her.)  Even if she didn't know all the details about Scientology, this was 2004 or 2005 - - she could have easily read up on a lot of quesitonable stuff online.  And I don't get the impression her father is a stupid man.  So yeah, Katie left and took Suri with her.  But she could have avoided ever being in that situation if she hadn't wanted to be a star so badly.

 

I do feel bad for John Travolta. I don't know exactly what has gone in his personal life insofar as his orientation, the harassment allegations, etc. but I think he's been victimized by the CO$. I found it interesting and sad that they said he didn't truly believe in the CO$ or its principals in the beginning but, like many celebrities and/or successful Scieno people, was fearful of leaving once the tide turned on his career.

 

I did snort with laughter over David Miscavige participating in that Scieno music video - - "Standing Tall" - - when he appears a good half a foot (or more) shorter than all the men around him. Napoleon complex much?  No wonder he and fellow shorty Tom Cruise are such besties.

Edited March 31, 2015 by maraleia
changed preferences to orientation per GLAAD media standards

[RedheadZombie]

I haven't gone through the tinfoil hats in a while, but weren't there huge conspiracy theories surrounding Suri's birth? I remember there being rumors that (a) Katie Holmes was already pregnant when she met Tom (and then went on to wear a fake stomach for a few months and held off on releasing photos for the longest time) or (b) Suri is David Miscavige's spawn (which I find very hard to believe.) There were also rumors that Tom shied away from custody battles because Katie threatened to do a paternity test.

 

Basically, I really hope there's an expiration date on any of Katie Holmes NDAs because the tell all would be epic. 

 

There's also the theory that Tommy Davis is Suri's father - she looks just like him.  The problem with that theory, is Tommy looks like he could be Katie's brother.  Suri looks like Tommy because Tommy looks like Katie. A lot of these conspiracy theories were based on the mistaken impression that Tom Cruise is completely infertile.  He's not - Nicole Kidman had two or three miscarriages during their marriage.  What really fired up suspicion was how reclusive Katie was during her pregnancy, and how the size of her "bump" seemed to shrink and grow.

 

I don't have quite as much compassion as others when it comes to Katie.  I'm glad she's finally out, but Suri is not completely unaffected by the time leading up to now.  Katie also chose to stay in a very public venue where Suri was accosted by huge crowds every time she left her home.  It was clear that child was very traumatized by all of it.  Also, unlike Nicole, Katie did not go in to the marriage ignorant on the issue of children.  Katie was front and center for a lot of the parental alienation that occurred with Isabella and Connor.  In fact, I suspect Katie participated.  After Nicole gave an interview stating how painful it was that her children called her by her first name, Katie gave an interview bragging that Connor and Isabella call her mom.  Katie was a mother herself at the time, and there's no way (in my mind) she did not realize how that would have affected Nicole.

 

Isn't it odd that the CoS wasn't able to break up Nicole and Tom sooner?

I've always wondered why Nicole and Tom adopted, then had bio children in their following marriages. Was that a CoS issue?

 

Tom only became a zealot near the end of their marriage.  He drifted away from CO$ during his marriage, and I think CO$ was able to get him back because he was already involved in an onset affair with Penelope Cruz, and no longer invested in his marriage (Nicole was no longer a fan of CO$).

 

Regarding Nicole and Tom and adopting.  They had at least one miscarriage before they adopted, and she was pregnant and miscarried (proven by DNA to be Cruise's) after he left her.  Some people are just not compatible when it comes to fertility.  My cousin and good friend were married for fifteen years with only one child - they tried their entire marriage for more.  They both quickly had two more children with other people after their divorce.

 

Does Scientology have a problem with adoption?  I don't think so.  Kirstie Alley had fertility issues, and her two children are adopted.  I do suspect that one of the claims of the "church" is they can cure infertility.  When Jennifer Lopez flirted with joining, it was during the time she was attempting to get pregnant.  The rumor was she thought they could help he.  I believe Leah Remini was working on her hard core, and J Lo obviously ended up having twins.  I doubt it was anything other than coincidence.

[ennui]

I've always wondered why Nicole and Tom adopted, then had bio children in their following marriages. Was that a CoS issue?

I don't think it was CoS, it was simply scientific advancement. I don't know where I read it, but I thought Tom had a low sperm count, which made conception difficult. I think there are now fertility or lab techniques to overcome that. Also, Nicole seems to have had trouble conceiving and carrying. If they both had issues, it would make adoption a better path.

[Proclone]

It depends on WHICH Hubbard beliefs, I suppose.  As stupid and hilarious as the Alien Ghosts shit is, it's ultimately harmless.  Even the idea of self-improvement through some of their basic techniques isn't massively harmful in of itself, because a lot of them are basically "mind over matter" type heal-thyself things.  and there are far worse things than being able to meditate or talk yourself out of a funk/into a positive mindframe.  But it's when you get beyond those real basics that it gets nutty and dangerous.  Decrying all psychiatric treatments simply because they didn't buy into Hubbard's medicine show six decades ago?  Treating drug addictions with vitamins and strapping people to beds to sweat it out, because a man with no medical eduction thought it was a good idea? Denying autism (and many other) conditions even exist because they think "evil psychiatrists" somehow invented the conditions? Believing that children, because they contain all these ancient thetans, are basically mini-adults and should be raised without traditional discipline or education (although apparently using them as slave labor is okay if they aren't rich celeb kids)? And of course Hubbard had tons of misogynistic beliefs, anti-homosexual beliefs, etc. which show up in the Scientology course materials Leah apparently still wants to honor and believe.

 

So while I think it's been a good thing her turning on the CoS, there's only so far you can go in lauding her.  And in addition, even if it was under coercion, she still led some pretty viscous attacks (on various radio shows and media interviews) before he abandonment, on opponents of Scientology.  Because well... doing so isn't just because David Miscavage is a meanie.  Hubbard himself, in those beliefs Leah still wants to apparently celebrate, laid out all that stuff about suppressive persons, disconnection, how lying and terrorizing people is okay in service of your "religion", etc.  That stuff is all, literally, Hubbard Gospel.

Ah, but again, the "beliefs" encompass more than stories about alien warlords dropping thetans into volcanos.  The beliefs also include direct statements from Hubbard about the things I spoke about earlier in this post.  Denying psychiatry totally. Denying much of medicine they don't agree with.  Normal drug treatment methods.  Anything close to real educational standards.  The idea of fairness or sanity when dealing with nonbelievers.  That's all in the basket labeled "beliefs", if people like Leah Remini are to be believed that L. Ron was just falsely supplanted by bad old Miscavage.

 

 

I'm not saying that there Church of Scientology was a begin organization before Miscavage came along. As I said I think their beliefs are wacked out, but they are entitled to them IMO.  Just as Jehovah's Witnesses are entitled to refuse blood, or Christian Scientist are entitled to refuse medical care.  Those beliefs may dangerous to the individual, but if you choose not to seek psychiatric care or decide vitamins will cure all your ills and you're an adult, I really couldn't care less (the idea of them forcing these beliefs on their children disturbs me though).

 

I do, however, think the Church of Scientology has been a corrupt entity since it's inception.  I'm just saying that I don't really care if their are people out there who believe the things that Scientology teaches, even the more disturbing aspects as long as they are doing it willingly and are free to stop believing whenever they want without fear of reprisals.  What I do care about is that the COS has used these aspects to control, and abuse it's members.  The do it in a very organized fashion and they have the resources to completely ruin peoples lives.  That's what makes them truly dangerous IMO.  Basically I'm saying I could care less what individual Scientologists do or believe and I'm more concerned with what the COS does to it's members and non-members.

[RedheadZombie]

I'm glad we weren't subjected to much of Tommy Davis' yammering - he is as smarmy as Miscavige is creepy.

 

I'm actually disappointed they didn't cover the incident between Tommy Davis and British journalist John Sweeney.  Sweeney made a documentary on CO$ that was aired on BBC in 2007.  Tommy Davis stalked and harassed the guy to the extent that they were able to record Sweeney losing it and screaming at Davis.  CO$ was able to release this ahead of the documentary, and make Sweeney look like an unhinged nut, thus somewhat discrediting the documentary.

 

I also loved Travolta talking about 'a world without criminality; a world without war' while sitting there in head-to-toe camo.

 

I agree that it was comical, but I believe he was on set.  His uniform had the name "Smith". 

[ApathyMonger]

Does anyone know what the ratings were?

 

1.7M live viewers, the highest since When The Levees Break in 2006: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/scientology-expos-going-clear-is-785556

 

Interesting that Sky Atlantic is listed as part of the production team, as the book wasn't able to be released in the UK due to libel laws. I assume this means they'll be showing it, but it doesn't seem to be airing anytime soon.

Edited March 31, 2015 by ApathyMonger

[Sharpie66]

I was reading something (I think it was at Salon) which just listed tweets of people reacting to the documentary. The best one was someone who was watching it with the family. The 11 year old said after watching the footage of LRH talking, "Malfoy..." which sums up LRH pretty well!

[Kromm]

This is actually from weeks ago, but this article gives some interesting insight into Scientology's continuing tactics:

 

http://laist.com/2015/03/13/going_clear_alex_gibney.php

 

 

When you search for Gibney's name in Google, the first thing that pops up is a link to Freedommag.org, which leads to a series of "mini-documentaries vilifying everyone in the film," Gibney said. On the website's landing page, the first video is titled, "Alex Gibney Documentary 'Going Clear' Propaganda." Others have titles like "Marty Rathbun: A Violent Psychopath," "Mike Rinder: The Wife Beater," and "Sara Goldberg: The Home Wrecker."

[Morbs]

I think Travolta is probably screwed up about his sexuality, and thinks it is immoral.  I kinda lumped him in with Whitney Houston in that regard, celebs who couldn't deal with their sexuality so it ended up contributing to destructive behavior.  So Travola creeps on guys at the gym and engages in anonymous sex instead of just having a healthy emotional/sexual relationship with a man.

 

I thought LRH looked a lot like a hippo.

 

As for Kidman/Cruise's kids, I always wondered if they were more raised by staff.  I think Holmes was a combination of being drawn in by the money, Cruises's charisma, and the benefits it could have for her career, but then it just imploded and she wasn't invited back to the Batman sequel because public opinion of her had dropped.  I'd love to know the truth though.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Morbs

[maraleia]

The Will and Jada Smith situation is so weird. Check out this article from the former principal of their school. http://tonyortega.org/2013/11/18/exclusive-first-interview-with-the-principal-of-will-jada-smiths-shuttered-scientology-school/.

It seems as if the kids are severely uneducated like all kids who are members of cults. So damn sad.

The documentary was very chilling and enlightening.

[Kromm]

The Will and Jada Smith situation is so weird. Check out this article from the former principal of their school. http://tonyortega.org/2013/11/18/exclusive-first-interview-with-the-principal-of-will-jada-smiths-shuttered-scientology-school/.

It seems as if the kids are severely uneducated like all kids who are members of cults. So damn sad.

The documentary was very chilling and enlightening.

And it's led to this situation where the kids come off as SO weird, entitled and intolerable where I, for one, after seeing one of Jaden's fucking bizarre tweets or reacting to some report about whatever the next album contract or movie role they've seemed to have bought for Willow or Jaden, actually struggle with wanting to punch a child.  And then I feel guilty about thinking that!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One of the comments left on the Tony Ortega article was from a former CoS kid who said his parents allowed him to read non-Scientology books as long as they weren't communist, psych-related, or fiction. I guess that kind of explains Willow saying she writes her own novels and then reads them if she isn't allowed to read fiction novels.

[FormerMod-a1]

Does anyone know, is that Jason Beghe 2 hour youtube interview available?  During the show he said it disappeared after 2  days.  Did it ever resurface?

[ApathyMonger]

Does anyone know, is that Jason Beghe 2 hour youtube interview available?  During the show he said it disappeared after 2  days.  Did it ever resurface?

 

Looks like it:

 

[scarynikki12]

Is his indoctrination the reason Will's first son Trey has been absent these last several years?  When Trey was a pre-teen/teenager, Will would bring him to red carpet events on occasion.  I remember seeing them goofing around on Entertainment Tonight (or a similar show) as Trey pretended to be one of the entertainment reporters and Will was jokingly teaching him how to do it right.  It seemed like their relationship had survived the divorce just fine.  Then, when the family indoctrination began, Trey seemed to vanish.  It could just be that he grew up, went to college, chooses to live a more private life and still has a great relationship with Will.  However, given how the COS encourages families to shun anyone who could be a Suppressive, the Smiths may very well be doing just that where Trey is concerned.  Does anyone know?

 

I would really like a follow up documentary.  In particular, I think it would be interesting to explore the home lives of the members prior to joining.  I'm curious how many converts came from traumatic/unhappy childhoods (Cruise had an abusive father, Kelly Preston's died when she was very young, and it's not a stretch to imagine that Travolta, if he's actually gay, could have been targeted by bullies and abusers).  What little I know about cults includes the explicit choice to target those who would respond to anyone who makes them feel good about themselves and the documentary made it very clear that the COS does just that. 

 

Incidentally, at the bottom of this page is a link to a list of celebrities who were thought to have been faking pregnancy.  Katie's photo accompanies the link and she looks fake pregnant in it (massive bump, skinny everywhere else including her boobs), so it's not surprising that there were rumors, even if completely false.

[FormerMod-a1]

I've been debating about posting this.  It's 5 Brainwashing Tricks That Work No Matter How Smart You Are.  It's not about Scientology, although they do mention it, but it does show how if done gradually, eventually the really crazy things don't seem so crazy.   I don't think anything is a big revelation, and it's stuff I already knew, however it does make the case for how smart, "normal" people could get sucked into something like Scientology or groupthink.

[AstaCharles]

There's also the theory that Tommy Davis is Suri's father - she looks just like him. 

I thought she looks a bit like her uncle William Mapother. I don't know if he's part of the church .

[QuinnM]

Does anyone know what the ratings were?

I didn't see the numbers but it was the highest rated HBO documentary ever.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Has anyone seen a photo of the house Miscavige lives in?

[formerlyfreedom]

I thought she looks a bit like her uncle William Mapother. I don't know if he's part of the church .

 

He's actually Tom Cruise's cousin, not his brother. He's been linked to Scientology, but not much conclusive appears on the internet about it. Which isn't a big surprise with the organization, frankly.

[lovinbob]

I think Surinlooks like Tom Cruise. And like Katie too. And I think Tom and Tommy Davis resemble each other.

Weirdly, I think Connor Cruise resembles Tom somewhat too, though that's beside the point.

[ennui]

I've always thought that Suri looks like Tom and Katie. I don't think there's a mystery there, but I know the rumors are (way) out there.

[Scout Finch]

The hope is that this will bring about immense public pressure on the IRS and other authorities. From Entertainment Weekly:

 

"One of the messages we are trying to get across is 'It's time to stop being afraid of Scientology,' " says Wright. "The FBI is clearly out of the investigating-Scientology business, and that's where journalism comes into play." Adds Gibney, "Sometimes you have to embarass the authorities to do the right thing."

 

"The film doesn't necessarily ask you to go out and write a letter to the IRS or beckon stars to come forward," says HBO Documentary Films president Sheila Nevins. "But I think Alex and Larry, having worked so hard and so long and so accurately on this, feel that something needs to be shaken. Something needs to be done."

 

I know this isn't the most well-known of forums but am still a bit surprised that there hasn't been at least one pro-CO$ comment coming out of the blue. The Church is notorious about infiltrating forums that are critical of it to try to do damage control.

[Rick Kitchen]

Is his indoctrination the reason Will's first son Trey has been absent these last several years?  When Trey was a pre-teen/teenager, Will would bring him to red carpet events on occasion.  I remember seeing them goofing around on Entertainment Tonight (or a similar show) as Trey pretended to be one of the entertainment reporters and Will was jokingly teaching him how to do it right.  It seemed like their relationship had survived the divorce just fine.  Then, when the family indoctrination began, Trey seemed to vanish.  It could just be that he grew up, went to college, chooses to live a more private life and still has a great relationship with Will.  However, given how the COS encourages families to shun anyone who could be a Suppressive, the Smiths may very well be doing just that where Trey is concerned.  Does anyone know?

 

 

He's apparently a club DJ who goes by the name of AcE.  He did a show in Los Angeles just the other day:

 

http://createnightclub.com/event.cfm?cart&id=142948

 

He has a web page at www.aceismusic.com

Edited April 1, 2015 by Rick Kitchen

[Dewey Decimate]

Boy, I'm glad I bought my copy of Dianetics (still unread in 30 years) back in my old pre-internet days as a kid. I remember those t.v. commercials that posed big philosophical questions and then listed a page number to find the answer. I think it reminded me of the Choose Your Own Adventure series, which I loved. If only that tome were actually about Xenu and thetans I may have actually gotten past page 12.

[fastiller]

I would really like a follow up documentary.

As other have stated, this is a topic that would have greatly benefited from a "Jinx" style mini-series.  Oooh, as I type this I wonder what a Ken Burns style mini would look like!

[paramitch]

You're right about Tom.  He had to be an egomaniac to even believe what they apparently told him.  He's openly talked about his ability to get people over their cocaine addictions - by his power alone.  Not to mention that he hasn't been ill in over a decade because he has the power to prevent illness.  I do think you're wrong about Nicole.  I think Tom obviously loved her at one time - he dumped his first wife for her.  But he was already involved in an affair with Penelope Cruz when he left Nicole, and Cameron Crowe made the notoriously insensitive remark about how beautiful it was to watch Cruz/Cruise fall in love on set.

 

Here's my super-weirdo confession: I don't hate Tom Cruise, and I kind of feel sorry for him, although granted, my pity has waned year to year the  more we've found out about the breadth of his involvement with the church and Miscaviage (and I wish the documentary had talked more about Tommy Davis, who is just as enabling, disturbing and creepy as Miscavige). I've rarely found him lustworthy per se, and I'm not a superfan, but I continue to like him as an entertainer, for the most part.

 

While I have no doubt that he's egotistical to a degree only possible for deluded Hollywood super-elite billionaire sex symbols, I suspect the attribute that's most responsible for Cruise embracing Scientology is the reverse -- a crippling insecurity directly stemming from his terrible childhood, lack of education and humble origins. He's always been painted as being one of these incredibly intense, focused types, and I give the guy full credit for what he's achieved because he has seemingly been unwavering in pursuit of the success he foresaw for himself. And early on, he was taken in by this cult that told him his success was not only deserved, it was destiny. That he is one of the chosen few; he will not only play superheroes, he will BE one, and save the world.

 

It would be easy if Cruise were a total villain. But what's interesting is that he's very well-liked on sets and in the industry, and that's why I think they simply smile at some of his foolishness. He has a crazy-good work ethic, he's positive and polite on-set, he gives huge amounts freely to various charities locally wherever he films, often in cash, he spends huge amounts to thank cast and crew after many projects are completed, and he's even performed not one, but several assorted real-life good deeds in which he actually stopped and helped regular people out of dangerous and even life-threatening situations. I have friends at a few gossip rags going back 10-20 years, and none of them has anything bad to say about him personally except that whole, Yeah, he's super-intense and kind of humorless, and he immediately gets in your space when you meet in this kind of alpha way.

 

So this all makes me sad, because watching "Going Clear," and reading the Scieno exposes, I'm convinced he is the most dangerous type -- not a blackmail victim, but an absolute true believer who is so swaddled from the sordid realities of the worst aspects of Sea Org that he disregards the stories as malicious (I'll never forget the mind-boggling scenario painted in one of last year's superb exposes on Scientology in Vanity Fair about the time when Cruise greets the guy who handcrafted wood fittings to Tom's new SUV using wood from L.Ron Hubbard's own tree or something, and he actually hugged the guy and wept, evidently completely unaware that the guy who did the work was not paid for any of it and was hounded mercilessly by Miscavige day and night without sleep until it was completed.

I think what happened to Boniadi was horrific, but it's again notable that so much of it seems to have been orchestrated around Cruise, as opposed to by him. The breakup was also wrapped up again in Cruise's adulation for Miscavige -- he immediately went cold when he saw what he viewed as unpardonable rudeness toward him from Boniadi and the relationship was immediately dead. But in terms of the aftermath, we don't know what Tom was actually aware of, beyond his almost comical movie-star arrogance in the manner of the breakup (if you read the Vanity Fair piece, he sent one of his minions to break up with her and ask her to move out, and her last view was of him blithely working out in his home gym as she left -- he didn't even bid her a personal farewell). It's very apparent that Miscavige orchestrated everything that followed in terms of her actual punishments.

 

So I tend to believe Cruise doesn't see most of the things we've seen in "Going Clear," that he's insulated carefully and assiduously 24/7 by people paid to keep him ignorant and happy. I don't excuse Cruise, I just do believe he is utterly and completely such a believer and so deluded that it's going to take something really big to shake him out of it (I keep hoping he stumbles on some of the human rights violations on his own, because I do believe those would upset him). I keep wishing he'll have some kind of massive awakening about what he's been enabling all this time, but I kind of don't think he would ever allow himself to admit to being that conned and brainwashed. Perhaps one of the most cringeworthy aspects for me was the fact that it's now cited by multiple sources that Miscavige routinely taped, watched and mocked Cruise's most private auditing sessions/confessionals, but of course, Cruise is now exactly the least likely person ever to believe this very thing.

 

Ah, but again, the "beliefs" encompass more than stories about alien warlords dropping thetans into volcanos.  The beliefs also include direct statements from Hubbard about the things I spoke about earlier in this post.  Denying psychiatry totally. Denying much of medicine they don't agree with.  Normal drug treatment methods.  Anything close to real educational standards.  The idea of fairness or sanity when dealing with nonbelievers.  That's all in the basket labeled "beliefs", if people like Leah Remini are to be believed that L. Ron was just falsely supplanted by bad old Miscavage.

I'm not happy Leah still drinks SOME of the Kool-Aid, but I do salute her for doing a tremendous amount to shine the light on the group's troubling truths and practices. She has been incredibly vocal and I think was a huge part of the public's realization about how harmful they really are.

 

Meanwhile, the documentary also brought home to me the hugest irony about Hubbard of all:  That this man who publicly decries psychiatry actually once (1) wrote to industry bigwigs asking for official endorsement of his "discoveries," and (2) that he actually once wrote a letter literally begging for psychiatric help under the growing realization that he might be insane. (Which, yes.)

 

I don't have quite as much compassion as others when it comes to Katie.  I'm glad she's finally out, but Suri is not completely unaffected by the time leading up to now.  Katie also chose to stay in a very public venue where Suri was accosted by huge crowds every time she left her home.  It was clear that child was very traumatized by all of it.  Also, unlike Nicole, Katie did not go in to the marriage ignorant on the issue of children.  Katie was front and center for a lot of the parental alienation that occurred with Isabella and Connor.  In fact, I suspect Katie participated.  After Nicole gave an interview stating how painful it was that her children called her by her first name, Katie gave an interview bragging that Connor and Isabella call her mom.  Katie was a mother herself at the time, and there's no way (in my mind) she did not realize how that would have affected Nicole.

 

Tom only became a zealot near the end of their marriage.  He drifted away from CO$ during his marriage, and I think CO$ was able to get him back because he was already involved in an onset affair with Penelope Cruz, and no longer invested in his marriage (Nicole was no longer a fan of CO$).

 

I can't really blame Katie in terms of the Tom & Nicole thing though -- she came on the scene several years later, was not the "other woman," and I think her acknowledgment that the kids call her Mom was more about inclusion than exclusion. And I really liked that Katie chose NYC because, honestly, it is actually a place both conducive to the super-rich barricading themselves as needed high atop a tower, and it is a place where celebs are less likely to be bothered by paparazzi or the public. From my time living there back in 2009-20011 or so, I saw tons of celebs all the time, just walking around and looking like crap like everybody else, and that's enviable for people in the public eye. And even then, yeah, they still got predictable paparazzi but I kind of like the way Katie seemed to have visibly decided they would simply live their lives and ignore it (I remember feeling terrible at a clip of them eating ice cream in a park or something, and Suri was very obviously crying at a nearby photographer or something, and it really made me agree with Kristen Bell that celeb kids should be off-limits.

 

And it's led to this situation where the kids come off as SO weird, entitled and intolerable where I, for one, after seeing one of Jaden's fucking bizarre tweets or reacting to some report about whatever the next album contract or movie role they've seemed to have bought for Willow or Jaden, actually struggle with wanting to punch a child.  And then I feel guilty about thinking that!

You and me both. 

 

And then there's the weird thing where Smith has been actively not just supporting his kids' careers but enabling them to what I really feel are over-the-top degrees -- insisting on Jaden as his co-star not once but several times, attempting to bankroll projects for them to star in (and I know Willow was supposed to be Annie for several years before she simply got too old for the latest remake), etc. For awhile, he wouldn't do talk shows unless Jaden was also booked as a guest alongside him. I like Will enormously -- even if I do think he's a little nuts himself (he seems so funny and charming), but his insistence on turning his children into stars -- whether or no they have the talent to back that up -- is in some ways the perfect encapsulation of the incredible entitlement that comes with Scientology.

 

Meanwhile, every time I think of Scientology, I think of this, so I had to post:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfIXQ4rPbco

 

"There are no aliens. There is no giant foot trying to squash me. And even though I think I might ignite, I probably won't." 

Edited April 1, 2015 by paramitch

[Kromm]

I can't be quite as nice or understanding about Cruise as you, @paramitch.

 

A lot of the human rights stuff appears to have always gone on literally on the other side of doors from Cruise.  A matter of a few feet and another adjoining room (at least when he's staying at that Gold Base place in the desert).  This is likely true to an extent of all of the celebs, but with Cruise the stories of his cronyism with Miscaviage are on a totally other level in terms of how often and how deep that involvement was.

 

And as much as it seems that Cruise is very suggestible, several times with him Scientology has ejected women from his life, then punished them.  I get that Cruise is constantly surrounded by handlers.  I get that a good deal of what he sees and believes goes through a filter.  But it's just weird to believe there's any person in the world totally isolated from all outside reality that there's no way a stray TV report, a phone with Internet access that isn't content blocked by the Church (I'm sure Tom's main Internet access and phones are), a stray comment in a backstage area by someone like Oprah Winfrey or Dave Letterman or someone else too big for you to ignore... that NONE of that has penetrated past this belief which would have to have been implanted in him that there are millions of people out to get him and his religion, who are lying about everything.  Which always has said to me that at his core, at least since 2000 or so (when the manipulations surrounding Nicole mainly happened), he's probably been totally on board and not just some victim.  A collaborator.  Maybe with some core insane belief that everything is necessary to ehem, defend Humanity from the so-called "Marcab Confederacy" (the space dudes who took over after Xenu and his very similarly named "Galactic Confederacy", and who supposedly are still spying on Earth).  But basing misbehaviors on core wacko-beliefs doesn't excuse them anywhere but in the perpetrators minds. 

 

I actually do believe he's nice on set and magnanimous.  Firstly, he can afford to be.  Second, even if it's subtle, it's always been a constant recruitment drive with him.  Thirdly, if he believes he's a saint, a messiah of sorts, then he maybe even sees that as his responsibility.  As long as they're not SPs, of course {insane laughter, "So, have you met an SP", giggle, giggle}.

[Morbs]

I think of Cruise as a very lost young man, who came into startling success and wealth, saw the horrors of the world and thought "Why am I so lucky?"  Instead of finding enlightenment in love, he found it in hate (to talk broadly) by joining an oppressive cult that tells him he deserves his good fortunate and other people do not.  I don't see charisma when Cruise talks, I see a psychopath.

[Chaos Theory]

I try not to judge movies by the actors/directors in them (I can enjoy a movie even if I don't paricularly like an actor as a person) but there is just something about Tom Cruise that just drives me away. I haven't been able to watch one of his movies in years.

[Kromm]

I try not to judge movies by the actors/directors in them (I can enjoy a movie even if I don't paricularly like an actor as a person) but there is just something about Tom Cruise that just drives me away. I haven't been able to watch one of his movies in years.

For me the dividing line is right around 2002, a year or two after he bought fully 100% into the cool aid, and it got reflected in his films as well.  One could argue that Minority Report and The Last Samurai are decent films, but they're kind of the end of the line for him.  

[Chaos Theory]

I have a question for people who know these sort of things. Is it a requirement for Scientologist (especially non famous ones) to watch his movies. The testemant according to Tom. It would explain the success of some of his more dubious films. See Knight & Day the movie is awful and it still has a 6.3 on IMDB and it grossed $76,000,000.00.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[fastiller]

I think of Cruise as a very lost young man, who came into startling success and wealth, saw the horrors of the world and thought "Why am I so lucky?"  Instead of finding enlightenment in love, he found it in hate (to talk broadly) by joining an oppressive cult that tells him he deserves his good fortunate and other people do not.  I don't see charisma when Cruise talks, I see a psychopath.

 

Even as a young man Cruise was acting the primadonna (primo?).  During the filming of Taps - I think it was one of his first roles - all the rest of the key cast members stayed at Valley Forge, sleeping in the barracks.  Cruise didn't - he stayed at a local hotel.

 

As to your comment about him being a psychopath: see my recent comment about Christian Bale basing Patrick Bateman (American Psycho) on Tom Cruise.

[QuinnM]

The fact that Nicole Kidman thought that Tom was acting like Miscavige is interesting.  In the films of presenting of the medal, the Tom in black turtle neck, he is acting and dressing like Miscavige.  That is a weird dynamic.

 

I would like to say that Miscavige went on the Holmes honeymoon to the Maldives.   They were on the COS yacht.  I knew that marriage was doomed then.

[psychoticstate]

I'd like to see actual proof that Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes were legally married because I don't believe they were.

 

I think Cruise is one of those militant followers that absolutely has to believe in Scieno or else he will mentally fall apart.  This guy operates on script at all times. I don't think he's been Tom Mapother for a very, very long time.   I think he's willfully ignorant -- even if confronted with the facts of what goes on in the CO$, he's not going to believe it. 

 

I can admire his work ethic, which is admirable from all accounts.  I've also always admired that he refused to allow people to call Isabella and Connor his adopted children versus his children.   I do think he's probably relatively easy to work with, especially compared to some Hollywood players.  But I also think he's acting a part, the part he's supposed to play, the part of Tom Cruise, international superstar.

[Athena]

The Tony Ortega / The Underground Bunker blog has numerous comments from ex-CO$ members. One of the things that is profoundly sad is how being labelled SP and resulting "disconnection" breaks families apart. It is an incredibly traumatic thing for children to disconnect from their parents. It's very much a cult that separates families and have those members believe they are doing the right thing for the Church because they have been told to.

 

One of the commentators said she was a friend of Cruise's niece. Cruise found out his teenage niece made out or acted inappropriately caught on camera. He was so angry he had her transferred and punished for three years doing menial labour in the Sea Org away from LA. He also made sure his sister - her mother - had limited or no contact with her daughter. He denied her request to go home several times. He eventually did relent and his niece is still in the CO$.

 

I've enjoyed a couple of Cruise's films. I do believe that he is good on set and a lot of the other stuff for work. However, he has always appeared off to me for a long time especially in his personal interviews. Even before his more militant CO$ side was revealed. I concur that he is brainwashed to such a crazy degree. He is so far into it that he doesn't even know who he is. I feel a bit sorry for him, but like in the documentary, he has gained a lot from being the poster boy. The story about his niece really disturbs me though. I can see why Kidman said he was becoming Miscavige which is awful. 

 

Cruise, Miscavige, and Hubbard are all incredibly paranoid. I think Miscavige (and probably Cruise) is becoming more like LHR. The Church doesn't even have a public image anymore and Miscavige may not take to the high seas, but he owns real estate all over the world. He can hide anywhere.

[90PercentGravity]

I have no doubt that Scientologists are a bunch of crazy nutbags, but something about the documentary is really bugging me. It's the guy who said that the scientologists are harassing him and his wife by filming everything they do. It doesn't make sense to me for a couple of reasons. For one, why would they be so brazen about it? Nothing else we saw or heard showed that kind of behavior. Also, at least one of the videos they showed was definitely filmed by those guys. I think it was the first one. You can hear the guys talking in the background and it was clearly filmed in a vehicle across the street watching the house... then the cops show up and the guys leave. How did the documentary get that footage? That makes no sense. Something is fishy there.

[Rick Kitchen]

I have no doubt that Scientologists are a bunch of crazy nutbags, but something about the documentary is really bugging me. It's the guy who said that the scientologists are harassing him and his wife by filming everything they do. It doesn't make sense to me for a couple of reasons. For one, why would they be so brazen about it? Nothing else we saw or heard showed that kind of behavior. Also, at least one of the videos they showed was definitely filmed by those guys. I think it was the first one. You can hear the guys talking in the background and it was clearly filmed in a vehicle across the street watching the house... then the cops show up and the guys leave. How did the documentary get that footage? That makes no sense. Something is fishy there.

 

It's what Scienos do.  They're notorious for it. Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversies

 

 

The organization's actions reflect a formal policy for dealing with criticism instituted by L. Ron Hubbard, called "attack the attacker". Hubbard codified this policy in the latter half of the 1960s in response to government investigations into the organization. In 1966, Hubbard wrote a criticism of the organization's behavior and noted the "correct procedure" for attacking enemies of Scientology:

        (1) Spot who is attacking us.

        (2) Start investigating them promptly for felonies or worse using own professionals, not outside agencies.

        (3) Double curve our reply by saying we welcome an investigation of them.

        (4) Start feeding lurid, blood, sex, crime actual evidence on the attackers to the press.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Rick Kitchen

[pigs-in-space]

I've read the book, so a lot of this wasn't new to me, but I did enjoy it, although I like the book more.  But I know that not everyone wants to read a book and this will get a much wider audience.  I first listened to the book on tape during a long car ride, and was totally engrossed by it.  It reminded me a lot of Under the Banner of Heaven, which is another one of my favorites.

 

There is so much they just couldn't cover, so this really only felt like the tip of the iceberg.  There's way more crazy under the water.  

 

I'm not happy Leah still drinks SOME of the Kool-Aid, but I do salute her for doing a tremendous amount to shine the light on the group's troubling truths and practices. She has been incredibly vocal and I think was a huge part of the public's realization about how harmful they really are.

I would not be surprised if in a few years she ends up disconnecting (pun intended) from the entire belief system.  When you've believed in something for THAT long and so intensely, it's very hard to completely shed it all at once.  

 

And as far as Shelly Miscavage, I would bet she's in The Hole and if someone came to spring her, she'd say she's there willingly, just like the people they interviewed said.  And I believe there was, at some point in the past, a raid on a Scientology RPF facility where people where locked up in cages in a basement, and all of the people there said they wanted to stay.

Edited April 2, 2015 by pigs-in-space

[ElectricBoogaloo]

It reminded me a lot of Under the Banner of Heaven, which is another one of my favorites.

A lot of the Scientology tactics remind me of things from the various fundamentalist cults and there are definitely some similarities with the things described in Under the Banner of Heaven. It genuinely terrifies me that there are people who think it's not only normal but expected to do things like punish a girl with menial labor for three years (as in the case of Tom Cruise's niece) or marry off their 13 year old daughters to polygamous old men (not Scientology but still crazy).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I have a question for people who know these sort of things. Is it a requirement for Scientologist (especially non famous ones) to watch his movies. The testemant according to Tom. It would explain the success of some of his more dubious films. See Knight & Day the movie is awful and it still has a 6.3 on IMDB and it grossed $76,000,000.00.

According to the Vanity Fair article linked above, David Miscavige’s brother-in-law (who was a Scientologist) said, "People in Sea Org were mandated to see every freaking Tom Cruise movie that came out."

[paramitch]

In addition to the painful and deeply upsetting tactics of disconnection, labeling (SPs, etc.), isolation, confession/auditing and atonement, and more, the other psychological weapon Scientology appears to employ on a constant basis is shunning. For instance, Boniadi wasn't just send to do menial labor at the camp as punishment, she also had to wear the black jumpsuit that meant no one was allowed to talk to her or engage with her. That kind of thing is -- to me -- more psychologically brutal than solitary confinement. 

 

Which always has said to me that at his core, at least since 2000 or so (when the manipulations surrounding Nicole mainly happened), he's probably been totally on board and not just some victim.  A collaborator.  Maybe with some core insane belief that everything is necessary to ehem, defend Humanity from the so-called "Marcab Confederacy" (the space dudes who took over after Xenu and his very similarly named "Galactic Confederacy", and who supposedly are still spying on Earth).  But basing misbehaviors on core wacko-beliefs doesn't excuse them anywhere but in the perpetrators minds.

Oh, I'm not arguing with you on any of that. What Cruise has enabled is grotesque. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that he excuses some or all of these things as allowable for the greater good -- it's the most dangerous thing about any fanatical believer.

 

And that's what I think he is -- I think he's a true believer stuck so very far down the Scientology gullet that there's little chance he'll ever emerge unless it's after some massive expose or crisis of faith. I think he believes everything we saw, and that's where my pity weirdly comes in. I just remember, what, five-six years back, and he was just so crazily excited and exuberant (and it all makes even more sense when you see his church give him this "highest honor" -- watching him be all evangelical and saving people from accidents, etc. It was like he really thought he could do anything, and meanwhile all of us were staring at the television going, "Wow. He's even more nuts than I ever suspected."

 

I firmly believe Cruise is drunk more deeply on the Scieno Kool-Aid than even Miscavige, Davis, Archer, or even Preston. And there's something sad about that, that this person had to go this crazy voluntarily in order to find self-acceptance and peace. It doesn't excuse his actions. But to me it's weirdly, deeply sad.

 

I definitely wish the documentary had touched upon Tommy Davis (Ann Archer's son), who was just as linked to Cruise for years as Miscavige, and who had some notable public meltdowns, and who has also on-camera repeatedly denied pretty much everything chronicled in this documentary.

 

I think Cruise is one of those militant followers that absolutely has to believe in Scieno or else he will mentally fall apart.  This guy operates on script at all times. I don't think he's been Tom Mapother for a very, very long time.   I think he's willfully ignorant -- even if confronted with the facts of what goes on in the CO$, he's not going to believe it. 

I think this is a really perceptive description of Cruise -- you said it better than I could.

 

And as far as Shelly Miscavage, I would bet she's in The Hole and if someone came to spring her, she'd say she's there willingly, just like the people they interviewed said.  And I believe there was, at some point in the past, a raid on a Scientology RPF facility where people where locked up in cages in a basement, and all of the people there said they wanted to stay.

 

Another thing I found incredibly hard to watch were those Scientology wives talking to Anderson Cooper -- watching their anger and fury at his questions and 'insults' to Scientology, knowing they  had only been released from The Hole to do this interview -- and that they would go right back into it! And yet here they all were, angrily defending Miscavige and Scientology. It was incredibly creepy and sad.

 

I'm interested to see what the fallout from this will be -- at some point soon, larger-scale official human rights investigations -- as well as a revocation of the Scientology tax-exempt status -- all seem inevitable at this point. (It's disconcerting that although there are fewer Scientologists today at less than 50,000, that they nevertheless control $1.5 billion in assets and real estate worldwide.)

[Kromm]

I'm interested to see what the fallout from this will be -- at some point soon, larger-scale official human rights investigations -- as well as a revocation of the Scientology tax-exempt status -- all seem inevitable at this point. (It's disconcerting that although there are fewer Scientologists today at less than 50,000, that they nevertheless control $1.5 billion in assets and real estate worldwide.)

You'd think they would be (inevitable) but nobody seems to be driving that bus.  The process of getting something "UN-Religioned" by the IRS seems vague (and it's freaky that possibly one man, whoever runs that organization at any time is likely the one who makes these decisions).

 

The name of the current Commissioner of Internal Revenue is John Koskinen, appointed in December 20, 2013.  Likely he'll leave when Obama leaves, I suppose.  But really the issue is there's probably nothing driving Mr. Koskinen to stick his neck out and... can we use the phrase "decertify" maybe, the CoS?  Why would he when he can simply ignore the issue and then not be accused of taking a side or embroiling the IRS in lawsuits?

 

I can't see how anything will change, because what NEW appointee is going to want to stick their neck out?  They'll all know they can simply pocket veto the occasional letter or email that comes in about this.

 

So no, I don't think it's inevitable.  I think even with a high profile documentary like this there's not enough "juice", not enough column inches, to force someone like the President to lean on the IRS Commisioner, and no Commisioner is likely to do it by themselves.\

 

Here's an interesting parallel--religions that won't do same sex marriages.  Yes, I know it doesn't SOUND like a parallel given that religious marriage and state marriage are two separate things (rightfully so).  But the commonality is in beliefs that some people have that tax-exempt status may be revoked for some of them. Common sense tells us that won't happen, but in fact a lot of these religious groups used fear mongering of the IRS doing so to whip up their followers into a frenzy about the "gub-mint" interfering with their religious freedom. The relevant part I found to the Scientology situation is that apparently people countering that fear mongering looked into what the IRS has actually historically DONE in terms of revoking Tax exempt status for religions. And the answer is... bubkis.  The IRS seems to have NO tendency at all in recent years, according to these reports, to investigate 501© organizations.  There's a form, IRS Form 13909, which people can use to report 501©(3) orgs (which includes "religions"), but the complaint has to specifically be about "inappropriate" "fundraising, political campaigning, lobbying", and of course a few people filing a form doesn't mean the IRS is obliged to actually DO anything, since they're the ones who define what's inappropriate and what's actually "fundraising, political campaigning, lobbying".  Morality issues don't seem to enter into what IRS Form 13909 covers, if it doesn't involve direct political stuff.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Kromm

[merylinkid]

I am amazed that everyone goes along with what Miscavige does.   Surely when he first started his takeover and abusing people, there were enough executives that they could have looked at him standing there alone and said "Hey buddy you hijacked this religion we believe in and worked so hard for, you are OUT of here."   What could one man have done against that?  Church schisms have started over less.