S06.E13: S06.E12: 2009 / S06.E13: Dreams Come True

[jaytee1812]

Actually the finale made me definite about something I'd been thinking all season. Tina's life would've been far better if she had never joined glee club. It has had no positive effect on her life, only negative.

[Bill1978]

Thanks jaytee for sharing the I Lived video. In my head I have decided that wardrobe dressed Madison to look like Marley (the whole beret thing), so people like me can pretend one of the quick shots of Madison is actually Marley. I have to wait 7 weeks to actually see the finale here in Australia, but I must say I feel I Lived was very rushed. It would have been nice to have the whole song so greater time could have been spent in introducing characters onto the stage. Great to see them all back and most likely I will have forgotten to dust my place by the time I see the finale. Maybe there will be an extended scene of it, cause the clips in the promo for the song are vastly different to what was shown on screen.

[starri]

I'm going to take what we got for them and run. If we checked back in on them chances are Brittany would be having a Klaine baby too.

They looked happy, and that will have to be good enough for me.

 

Dianna Agron, still the prettiest.

 

I think I got the most satisfaction from seeing Will and Emma together.  I may be unique in this, but way back in the pilot, it was Emma who drew me in, because she was a character whose quirks could have been completely annoying, but Jayma Mays sold the hell out of it, and she was cute as a button while doing it.  And the show back then was actually as much about Will (if not more so) as it was about Rachel, and being that I was closer in age to Will (I may actually have been older than he), I guess that grabbed me more.  Except for the rapping, as Emma even called out.

 

As to the self-congratulatory tone about the LGBT stuff...this it probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but as annoying as it got, they actually deserved at least some of it.  I don't know if Glee was a catalyst or it just happened at a moment where there was a generational shift in attitudes, but I think a lot good stuff for visibility (especially with what happening over on ABC Family's The Fosters, a show that I don't even watch, but have none-the-less gotten teary-eyed just reading about) is because of the show.  Maybe not as much as the show would like us to believe, but it did make a difference.

[hullabaloooo-o]

I watched 2009 and Dreams Come True out of order (DVR disaster) — and I watched DCT not aware that 2009 existed (like I said, DVR disaster). 

 

Back in December of 2009, I watched all of the first half of that season during a 12-hour overnight in an airport in London, at a Costa Coffee with exceptionally fast wifi. Three days later, I found out that while I was watching Glee, my (er, at-the-time) boyfriend was hooking up with his ex-girlfriend at a party. This is to say that I have always had a weird, deep, and not totally understood attachment to Glee, as a partner of sorts for getting through the good and the bad and the emotional upheaval-ing. I basically sobbed through last week's episode - half "This show could have been on forever if they'd just made it awesome like this all the time and had that one kid singing Hozier" and half "What will this day be like? What will my future be?" 

 

All that said, I found Dreams Come True a disappointment. I mean, it's Glee, so I wasn't surprised to be disappointed, but I was still disappointed. By the end, these characters are, what, 25? I don't need to be assured of their happy futures! Let them struggle a bit! Or even better, keep it in the choir room! For me, anyway, Glee wasn't about the promise of success — it was about daring to try. Daring to try is so much more interesting, and affecting, than having success — even if that means beating Anne ("Anne!") Hathaway for a Tony. Parks + Rec — a show I thought was great but didn't mean nearly as much to me as Glee —just did the flash-forward thing three weeks ago, in a way that was no less optimistic — wasn't Leslie president by the end? — but still managed to feel connected to the show's core philosophy. 

 

Then I realized — going through the comments here — that I'd totally missed 2009. It wasn't perfect — in general, it didn't even get me to that same place of "OMG everything is wonderful and everything is terrible but if we try really hard, and never give up, maybe we can make something awesome!" that Roderick gave me with "Take Me to the Church" (um, I'm crying as I write that). But Lea was amazing as S1 Rachel (the frosted lipstick was delightful), I loved the return of Emma's pamphlets and Anthro necklaces, and I thought they did an admirable job of working around, and paying tribute to, Cory/Finn (er crying again). 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trH2iiOxjRg

 

I was prepared for the DSB ending. In fact, I spent a solid part of yesterday watching the various DSBs, especially the season 5 version where Rachel sings Finn's part, Kurt sing's Rachel's, and Mathew Morrison lifts his eyes to the sky when Kurt comes on stage. (Crying again!) Even though I knew it was coming, when I realized we were going to go from the hallway into the auditorium to see the first DSB, with everybody impossibly young again — I wasn't even crying, I felt like I was physically punched in the gut. 

 

Oh, Glee. When you were good, you were gold. 

Edited March 21, 2015 by hullabaloooo-o

[Myrna123]

My major takeaway from 2009 is that 2015 is doing no favors to women's eyebrows. The caterpillars over Rachel's eyes were very disturbing.

I bought Burt's harshness in that it helped make sense of Kurt's trepidation in coming out to him. I think if the original hair and make up people were still working on the show (a much more talented group I've always thought), Kurt might have fared better in the past, present and future looks.

Rachel as the Klaine surrogate is stupid enough for Glee to be sure. I would imagine her NY Time obit when she is 106 years old will read, "Rachel Berry, the Tony, Emmy, Academy and six-time Nobel prize winner, also astronaut, firefighter and circus acrobat, who famously gave up her first child to high school friends, passed away today..."

It will never not flabbergast me the amount of money paid to the individuals responsible for such a terribly planned, plotted, and written program. I cannot believe no one ever had the guts to point out how lazy, uninformed, and just flat-out awful their execution of this series was. They get a modicum of credit for creating the characters and the concept of the show, but I'm convinced that any success this show experienced is about 99.9% because of the charisma of its performers, or, 99.9% in spite of the show runners.

Anyway, thanks Glee for introducing me to Chris Colfer.

[Kromm]

2009 was interesting, but clearly hampered by the lack of one specific deceased actor.  Er.  And one blond cheerleader magically missing too.

 

Asshole Puckerman was probably the best thing in it.  Actually, Rachel 1.0 was kind of refreshing too, in a way.  They didn't quite get her look right, but they did get her snippy character, emotional-tone-deafness and in particular her relentless drive, right.  One thing the character lost was that relentlessness, subsumed under endless plots villainizing it, making her confused and arbitrary rather than certain.  Seeing it back again reminds us of how both accidentally (and on some occasions deliberately) she could rub people the wrong way, but how strong she was too.  Vs. the weak ninny we wound up with later, who gets magical breaks, then sobs and angsts, and blows them.

 

Aggressive Mercedes was at least interesting.  It was always there, but more overt here and that probably was a good decision.  The "you're probably going to wind up great friends" line seemed so forced though.

 

I do agree with the comment some have made though that 2009 kind of lacked an actual plot.  It was kind of like just seeing "the prequel" to the Pilot was supposed to be enough, even if it was in essence just strung together vignettes.  I think there WAS an attempt to link all the vignettes via Rachel floating through each story, but it wasn't tight enough.  There was maybe another attempt to link everything through Mr. Shu, but again it didn't quite work.

 

The "Friendster, Myspace, Blockbuster video" joke was pathetic, I think.  Such an over-obvious wink-wink meta-comment like that (meta because it was linked to the Glee club aka "Glee" the show, and how "children don't want to sing") was just ego driven by our show creators.

 

It WAS interesting that Sue's position was stated so much more reasonably in the basketball scene than we'd ever seen before.  All the lame excuses we'd ever seen for her rage, and this one was the only one that totally worked.

 

Extra year back Blaine was kind of intrusive, a bit too "clever"

 

I did like the way they folded 2009 into the end of the pilot, but it did strike me that there were certain subtle things about the faces of the younger actors they couldn't quite match.  That first part of the Journey song where Rachel steps out (after Finn's opening) and we get that full to the camera shot of Lea's true 2009 face, you can really see the youth there (not that Lea looks old now, by any means, but even in mock 2009 garb there's no mistaking her for current Lea).

[absnow54]

My major takeaway from 2009 is that 2015 is doing no favors to women's eyebrows. The caterpillars over Rachel's eyes were very disturbing.

They went through such efforts to ugly Rachel up, only to have her step out during the original DSB to show how gorgeous Lea has always been.

[Primetimer]

Glee ends as it began: kind of a mess, but full of emotionally manipulative potential.

Read the story

[mojoween]

The "Friendster, Myspace, Blockbuster video" joke was pathetic, I think.

I haaaaaate jokes like this. "Big Bang Theory" did one like this in a flashback episode when Sheldon said "Firefly" would be on forever and it just sounds so silly.

And poor Iqbal didn't sound all that convincing saying it, either.

[Hana Chan]

If there was one big flaw in 2009 (and I still think it was the stronger of the two episodes), it was that Rachel's overwhelming hyper-competitiveness never really got explained. We saw that the harsh comments on her Myspace page got to her more than she let on (I supposed to humanize her), but what they never really explained or justified why Rachel was pushing away anyone who made even tentative offers of friendship.

 

In the pilot, we started with Kurt and Mercedes already having a clear disliking for Rachel and over the course of the season Rachel wanting them as friends. Which is why it was rather jarring to see Rachel so bluntly rejecting Kurt's offer to audition together, pretty much putting an end to any possible good interactions between them for a very long time. It does explain why Kurt had so much resentment towards Rachel, but despite the voice over, we never really got into Rachel's head. Why was she so afraid of any competition that she would she push Kurt (and then Mercedes) away and then later whine that no one liked her. Why would she be so blind to how her behavior was perceived by others and where this overwhelming need for stardom (that justified tramping over others) came from. We didn't learn anything more about Rachel here than we already knew from the original pilot. At least Kurt, Mercedes, Tina and Artie were given reasonable backstories that fit their characters and fit neatly into the events of the pilot.

[jaytee1812]

The thing I still don't get is why we are suppose to believe this glee club was so wonderful. What did it do for these kids? I can see how it help Kurt, Artie, and maybe Mercedes, but who else? Mike, possibly. But of 30 kids that were there I don't see that many lives changed by this glee club for the better. I see a few changed for the worse.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I feel I Lived was very rushed. It would have been nice to have the whole song so greater time could have been spent in introducing characters onto the stage.

ITA - it started out nicely with just five people on the stage and then a few more people joining them and then suddenly it was a mad rush of people running around with the cameras everywhere and I was like whoa, slow down so I can see everyone!

 

And not to sound like one of those high school kids who is always yelling, "Seniors in the front!" for every picture but I wish they had used some kind of seniority for the final pose. Kurt is in the third row between Mason and his ex-incest sister/lover but Sugar is in the second row between Sam and Mike while Brittany and Santana are in the fourth row? At the very least they should have had the S1 cast members all in the first two rows (heh, although I was totally fine with Groff in the front row next to Rachel because I'm biased). At least Matt was in the second row next to Will. I guess that totally makes up for getting kicked off the show after S1, right?

[starri]

Am I wrong, or was there a goof when Emma showed Will the video of his Nationals-winning performance?  We saw his glee club performing "Disco Inferno," but I swear I remember it being "That's the Way I Like It" in the pilot.  Was it a rights thing?

[jaytee1812]

Am I wrong, or was there a goof when Emma showed Will the video of his Nationals-winning performance?  We saw his glee club performing "Disco Inferno," but I swear I remember it being "That's the Way I Like It" in the pilot.  Was it a rights thing?

I thought that too, and Glee Wiki agrees with us.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Am I wrong, or was there a goof when Emma showed Will the video of his Nationals-winning performance?  We saw his glee club performing "Disco Inferno," but I swear I remember it being "That's the Way I Like It" in the pilot.  Was it a rights thing?

In the pilot, they showed Will's group performing "That's the Way (I Like It)" and "(Shake Shake Shake) Shake Your Booty." In S3, they showed Will's group singing "That's the Way (I Like It)" again (and Mercedes, Santana, and Brittany sing "Disco Inferno" in the Saturday Night Glee-ver episode).

[Kromm]

2009 was the better of the episodes, even with some of the problems in it.  The other episode was just a mess.  Tons of self-congratulatory goodbyes, weirder than even usual/even more intrusive nonsensical musical moments with no subtlety, Jerry Rivers annoying ass for Sue's postscript, and so many weird conceits.

 

For example, five years later being the flash-forwards.  You know, with college barely over for several of our characters. It just felt so stupid.  Kurt and Blaine's flash-forward was especially cringe-worthy.  Frolicking with kids five years forward... just because.  The huh?  And Rachel's CONTEMPORARY goodbye to McKinley, when she'd been gone and back so many times.  It was actually a fairly glorious use of Lea's voice (it had a ton of light and shade in it that frankly I don't think she would have had a few years ago).  But still, it was just fucking weird to have that particular goodbye just... inserted there with no logical framework.  

 

Then there's the super inane big flashforward with the bulk of the cast culminating in Rachel's Tony (and some mysterious location ADJACENT to the one the Tony Awards was held in with space to hold a dozen of her cheerleaders) .  I rolled my eyes so fucking many times during that long sequence, from the babbling from Tina about Artie's movie, to the idiotic surrogate story (idiotic mostly because well... two years out of college shouldn't Rachel be kind of BUSY? Especially with a Tony nomination?)

 

I admit I did laugh at the other nominees.  Anne Hathaway and "Anne", for example, but particularly at the notion of Willow Smith's annoying self having a Broadway show.  But Jane Austin sings?  (rolling eyes)  At least we got to see a few seconds of Quinn Fabray though, even if she didn't speak.  

 

I will be non-cynical for a moment though and state that the VERY last scene DID work for me.  Given the handicap of Cory Monteith being dead, and the sharp turn the show's planned ending had to have taken after that, this WAS probably the only way to end.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Kromm

[Starchild]

Tina and Artie was dared by that goth and werewolf duo to audition

Speaking of, was it Tina and Artie that dared those two to dump food all over Kurt and Rachel?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yes, it was!

[Ceeg]

The thing I still don't get is why we are suppose to believe this glee club was so wonderful. What did it do for these kids? I can see how it help Kurt, Artie, and maybe Mercedes, but who else? Mike, possibly. But of 30 kids that were there I don't see that many lives changed by this glee club for the better. I see a few changed for the worse.

 

Santana, Brittany, Puck, Quinn, and Finn definitely all changed by being in Glee.

[Dave in Chicago]

I can't really be mad at "Glee", despite all the times I was mad at it. I keep coming back to the fact that if a show like this had been around when I was in high school it would have meant a lot; it means something even now.

[starri]

Santana, Brittany, Puck, Quinn, and Finn definitely all changed by being in Glee.

Santana even said in either the midseason finale or the actual finale of S1 that if asked directly, she'd deny it, but Glee was the one thing in her whole day that she looked forward to.

 

Also, I doubt without being a part of New Directions, she'd have been able to accept herself and get the girl.

[EAG46]

I like how it ended for all the kids. Not so much for Sue.

[Kromm]

I have a sense that the "See the world not as it is, but as it should be." line was written WAY back in Season 1 as the ending line, albeit obviously with a slightly different implementation at the end (since Finn wouldn't have been dead in the original plan).  Even Sue being the one to utter it was probably the plan.  The fact that it actually kind of works as a tag for the entire show, versus coming off as somewhat bogus like so much else we've seen and heard after Season 1, is what makes me feel that.

[Mnem]

I know it's corny, and I know the real world circumstances behind it, but I can't help but be a little giddy that Jesse finally got his girl! Good for you, Jesse!

[truthaboutluv]

And one blond cheerleader magically missing too.

 

 

Quinn wasn't an original member of the Glee Club and she only joined later, I think in episode 2 or 3, when Sue convinced her and Santana to join as spies for her. The episode was to show how the five people who willingly and originally signed up to audition for the Glee Club did so. 

 

As for the Blaine cameo, while definitely a bit too cutesy and twee, I didn't mind so much the whole "they almost met more than a year before they did". What bugged me more was seeing shades of original Blaine in that scene and being reminded how it all went so very, very wrong with the characters. And I'm still amazed (actually I wasn't. Nothing these people did surprised me anymore) at the writers having Sue reference Blaine's dating Karofsky as the awful, disgusting thing it was.

 

And that one moment just reminded me why I can't stand these writers so much and why I just couldn't find it in me to be emotional over the end because I was too bitter at them for what they allowed the show to become. I know Ryan and company threw it there probably as some last FU to the fans who loathed the storyline but to me it just made clear that THEY knew how horrible and awful the storyline was but just didn't give a shit and did it anyway.

 

And that's the story of the show since maybe Season 2, culminating in what it has become. Things didn't have to make sense - if Ryan Murphy decided that he wanted to do this, then it was done. Suddenly wants to start with a whole new group of Glee Club members, gut the show's cast. Decides he wants to put Quinn and Finn together again despite everything that happened between them, make Finn an insensitive dolt, gay marriage rights are being passed around the country, oh they need to have a big gay proposal. Just ignore that the two getting engaged aren't back together. 

Edited March 21, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[jaytee1812]

Santana, Brittany, Puck, Quinn, and Finn definitely all changed by being in Glee.

 

Santana even said in either the midseason finale or the actual finale of S1 that if asked directly, she'd deny it, but Glee was the one thing in her whole day that she looked forward to.

 

Also, I doubt without being a part of New Directions, she'd have been able to accept herself and get the girl.

Santana and Brittany haven't changed at all in their time on Glee. Quinn did not change for the better.

I think Glee gave Finn the confidence to be who he was, it didn't necessarily change them.

Quinn wasn't an original member of the Glee Club and she only joined later, I think in episode 2 or 3, when Sue convinced her and Santana to join as spies for her. The episode was to show how the five people who willingly and originally signed up to audition for the Glee Club did so. 

Quinn joined to keep an eye on Finn/Rachel in episode two. Puck joins even later and he was there.

Apparently Mike wasn't at McKinley then either.

[Ceeg]

 Santana and Brittany haven't changed at all in their time on Glee. Quinn did not change for the better.

 

I'll respond in the All Episodes thread.

[darkestboy]

That was perfect. As a final two parter, it just hit every emotional beat and every right moment going. The show might have had it's ups and downs and been frustrating and even horrible at times but these last two episodes ended the show on the best note possible.

The flashbacks to 2009 were pure nostalgia and I did tear up a little at Don't Stop Believing once again. The show managed to get around Finn's absence as best they could within the episode. Even the Blaine insert into the first episode was pretty fantastic as well.

Journeying to the future, both Will and Sue's respective fates did not surprise me in the slightest. Will's made perfect sense and Sue's one was as daft as most of her storylines have been throughout the series.

I'm glad that Rachel got her Tony award, married Jesse and even carrying Kurt/Blaine's kid wasn't a surprise either. I also liked that Kurt/Blaine were a positive influece on LGBTQ kids as well.

Mercedes, Sam, Artie and Tina's futures were nicely explored and seeing so many past characters (Marley excluded, shame we didn't see her) was a blast too. The dedication of the Auditorium to Finn and the rendition of I Lived along with Sue's speech about the club was just the perfect way to cap off the series.

It's been an interesting six seasons for this show with plenty of highs, lows and genuine WTF moments but this show has certainly earned it's place in television history and rightfully so, 9/10

[Kromm]

Quinn wasn't an original member of the Glee Club and she only joined later, I think in episode 2 or 3, when Sue convinced her and Santana to join as spies for her. The episode was to show how the five people who willingly and originally signed up to audition for the Glee Club did so. 

I meant from the episode, not the Glee club.  Quinn was floating all around the corners of the events of the Pilot.

 

The way we saw Puck in 2009, for example, worked great.  But Quinn was the face of the Cheerios, right from the start, so it was a natural place to expect to see her, and it felt weird to skirt around her JUST as much as they did a guy who's actually dead.  But heck, we didn't even get Santana as a 2009 substitute.  It was a weird feeling anomaly in that "back in time" scenario--admittedly we know because Dianna Agron clearly had some pretty strict conditions on coming back at ALL--but knowing that doesn't make it feel any less weird.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Kromm

[truthaboutluv]

The "Friendster, Myspace, Blockbuster video" joke was pathetic, I think.

 

 

It also didn't make sense. This was supposed to be 2009, these things had already been outdated by then. Some people still used Myspace, but Facebook originated in 2004 so it was already the runaway hit by then. Twitter came on the scene in 2006. I don't remember Friendster still existing by then or if it was anyone really talking about it and Blockbuster, please. Netflix had already significantly started eating into its sales and stores were shutting down all over the place by then already.

 

Again, just another perfect example of the level of mediocrity this show became. Even something that basic they couldn't have cared enough to make it make some kind of sense so instead of clever and funny as they were clearly aiming for, it was just stupid. It reminded me of the dumbest line in this show's entire history (and I know that's saying something), Quinn informing Rachel Berry that Cats was no longer on Broadway. I will never forget the utter stupidity of that moment. 

 

Quinn joined to keep an eye on Finn/Rachel in episode two. Puck joins even later and he was there.

 

 

Again,  I interpreted the comment as being about not seeing Quinn's story in the episode and as I noted, it was supposed to be about just the original members who signed up. Yes, Puck was there to be an asshole and a bully in a total of five minutes. I guess if it was that important for some to see Quinn in that mold again, then fair enough. But seems to me the episode was essentially about the original Glee club members and their stories. 

 

I meant from the episode, not the Glee club.

 

 

Fair enough...

Edited March 21, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[camussie]

Why assume Mike wasn't at McKinley in "2009." The episode was a snapshot of a week or so in the lives of the 5 original members of ND and Will. That means only the people they interacted with in that week were in the episode but it doesn't erase the history of the people they didn't interact with. For example Ken Tanaka wasn't in the episode either but I think we can assume he was the football coach at McKinley at that time.

[jaytee1812]

Why assume Mike wasn't at McKinley in "2009." The episode was a snapshot of a week or so in the lives of the 5 original members of ND and Will. That means only the people they interacted with in that week were in the episode but it doesn't erase the history of the people they didn't interact with. For example Ken Tanaka wasn't in the episode either but I think we can assume he was the football coach at McKinley at that time.

I was being sarcastic about Harry not being in the episode yet in season one Mike's barely in a scene without Puck and Matt, if he is ever in a scene without them.

[Sara2009]

I like Will's future, but does anyone else find it hilarious that he and Emma are raising 4 young children in that apartment? How do they deal with the chaos? LOL

[heyerchick]

Enjoyed the final recap, thanks :)

[jaytee1812]

I like Will's future, but does anyone else find it hilarious that he and Emma are raising 4 young children in that apartment? How do they deal with the chaos? LOL

  

Personally I think Will ends up dealing with it in the arms of Rachel Berry!

Enjoyed the final recap, thanks :)

If the show had been half as good as the recaps on this site it might not be ending! But then the writers for this site are professionals who take pride in their work.

[Sara2009]

Will and Emma seemed completely in love to me, so I choose to believe that they stay together.

[clarkbar]

I wondered if one of the kids running around Will's apartment was Sue's daughter.

[Sara2009]

I wondered if one of the kids running around Will's apartment was Sue's daughter.

They were all red-headed boys, so I don't think so. The girl Emma was holding also had red hair.

[jaytee1812]

I wondered if one of the kids running around Will's apartment was Sue's daughter.

Hopefully she's been taken into care!

[Higgs]

I admit I did laugh at the other nominees.  Anne Hathaway and "Anne", for example, but particularly at the notion of Willow Smith's annoying self having a Broadway show.  But Jane Austin sings?

And the ancient Maggie Smith as "Leading Lady in a Muisical".

Dreams come true? It was more like nightmares horrifyingly realized. If Rachel had had a dream in which she were an 8+ months-pregnant surrogate while attending the Tonys as a nominee for an absurd musical in competition with even more absurd nominees, she would have woken up like a scream queen in a cold sweat. For Kurt to be recognized only for the ludicrous idea of an LGBTQ production of "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf" was an even greater (homophobic) insult to his talents than the Romeo business. (Who the George, who the Martha? Who the top, who the bottom? The mind boggles.) Ditto for Artie and his 10th-rate film festival and the perpetually confused Tina. The expected emotional payoffs for these "successes" were further undermined by putting them on a level with the loathsome Sue as VP. (Did Geraldo's calling Sue "Madame Vice-President" instead of "...-elect" mean she was VP one year after leaving Lima? Sure, Sarah Palin was an ignorant lunatic, but she was at least an ignorant lunatic Governor.) Sue also undermined the opening night of FG and a good deal of S6, and I've never seen a plausible explanation for any of it.

But there is no evidence the writers meant these events to be taken as ironic jokes on the characters. On whom then? Right.

[jaytee1812]

Awful thing for me watching it was Tina actually had a better sense of self and didn't seek approval from others who would never accept her, until she joined glee. Then she became an insecure, unbalanced woman desperate for approval from the like of Rachel, Mercedes and Blaine. And is so insecure she thinks Artie is good enough for her.

[Myrna123]

Awful thing for me watching it was Tina actually had a better sense of self and didn't seek approval from others who would never accept her, until she joined glee. Then she became an insecure, unbalanced woman desperate for approval from the like of Rachel, Mercedes and Blaine. And is so insecure she thinks Artie is good enough for her.

You saw Tina in the pilot for about 15 seconds so it's just as true to say she was whoring herself out on street corners due to her lack of sense of self before she joined Glee Club.

When you pretend everything you don't like about a character's personality doesn't exist or is due to a mental illness you made up you can pretty much make any statement you want about them because what actually happened on the show doesn't exist in your interpretation. There's not much give and take discussion to be had tho because you're talking about characters none of the rest of us have ever seen.

[Higgs]

According to Darren, "This Time" has three layers: Rachel reflecting on her journey, the Glee cast appreciating the work and the experiences they had with each other, the audience expressing gratitude for the introduction of these characters into their lives. It is not just a goodbye, and it is not just about Rachel. It's also about the joy of having memories of this shared "time" to "hold forever", and as such, is independent of time and SL sequence. Darren provided the bespoke lyrics that no cover could have accomplished nearly as well.

[jaytee1812]

When you pretend everything you don't like about a character's personality doesn't exist or is due to a mental illness you made up you can pretty much make any statement you want about them because what actually happened on the show doesn't exist in your interpretation. There's not much give and take discussion to be had tho because you're talking about characters none of the rest of us have ever seen.

I'm trying to find an interpretation for what I see on screen. The girl in season 1 is not the same girl in season 6.

[heyerchick]

That would be the shitty writing.

[jaytee1812]

That would be the shitty writing.

Obviously, but you want an interpretation within the narrative. Tina starts off with her own look personality and style, she's over emotional at times but she's her own woman. From Props onwards she's needy, insecure and desperate for approval. It's not a leap to say glee change her for the worse.

[Sara2009]

Tina faked a stutter for much of season 1. That screams insecure to me.

[Myrna123]

Obviously, but you want an interpretation within the narrative. Tina starts off with her own look personality and style, she's over emotional at times but she's her own woman. From Props onwards she's needy, insecure and desperate for approval. It's not a leap to say glee change her for the worse.

So you think Jenna took this character and the words written for her to say in the hopes that the interpretation viewers took away was how much Tina changed for the worse due to Glee Club? Why would she ever be hired to interpret another character ever again if she does that to material that it clearly wasn't the intent to convey?

[caracas1914]

Darren provided the bespoke lyrics that no cover could have accomplished nearly as well.

 

Eh, I liked Darren's OK ,but I can think of alot of songs that would have had as much, if not more emotional impact to me for Rachel to sing.

 

As usual, mileage varies.

[laffytaffy997]

It also didn't make sense. This was supposed to be 2009, these things had already been outdated by then. Some people still used Myspace, but Facebook originated in 2004 so it was already the runaway hit by then. Twitter came on the scene in 2006. I don't remember Friendster still existing by then or if it was anyone really talking about it and Blockbuster, please. Netflix had already significantly started eating into its sales and stores were shutting down all over the place by then already.

 ..

Well in the actual pilot Rachel does actually talk about her myspace page and that's where she was posting videos of herself singing and Quinn and others were posting their mean comments. Also, originally Facebook was only for college students and you could only get an account if you had a college email address. I can't remember exactly when Facebook started letting anyone get an account though. Plus, Lima is supposed to be a small town, so maybe they weren't as up to date on the latest internet trends.

I actually watched the pilot right before the finale, so it was interesting to see the differences. While Lea had Rachel's mannerisms done, I don't understand what they did to her face. What was her eyebrows!? It was really distracting, but they also made her paler or tried to uglify her or something. As someone mention already, she looked pretty during DSB, so I don't know what they were doing. Obviously, they could only do so much with Chris since he aged a lot, but they could have done better with the hair. I had to laugh when they shot "mr. Cellophane" from behind because he would have looked so different from the pilot. I guess they got away with it in DSB since the focus wasn't on him.

I didn't quite understand the dare thing with Artie and Tina. I mean, they auditioned as a dare and got in and we didn't hear about it again. Maybe I missed something?

Someone mentioned this in the live thread, but there was a random shot of a cheerio and a jock in the shadows that were supposed to be Finn and Quinn (obviously it wasn't the original actors). Did anyone else see this?