S01.E11: S01.E11: Die But Once / S01.E12: Who I Am

[aprilbabe]

 

 

So Vernon and Bunkie were brothers?  Wow.  No wonder Vernon went back to drugs and to the FBI after finding out Lew murdered him.  I don’t think we’ve seen the last of Vernon though. I fully expect him to pop up next season when we least expect it.  At least, I hope so.  Let’s form a prayer circle for Vernon, just in case.

 

 

I didn't take that brothers thing literally. If they are brothers then Vernon is also Cookies cousin and I don't think that it is.

 

Watch out, Jamal.  Your Daddy’s not grooming you, he’s using you to toughen up Hakeem and mold him in his image.  As soon as he uses you up, he’s going to drop you just like he did your Mama.  Mark my words.  Besides, as long as that vampire is alive, no one’s going to run Empire but him.

I actually think Lucious is being genuine. Think about it Lucious is a narcissic, he's in love with him self. Like it or not Jamal is just like him, other then their sexuality he is the mirror image of his father. He hasn't crossed the lines Lucious has yet, but he has it in him to do so. So of course he picks the person that can be made in his image, he thought it was Hakeem, but he sees now it Jamal. Also now that he knows Hakeem betrayed him, he aint giving him shit.

Edited March 19, 2015 by aprilbabe

[Milz]

Watch out, Jamal.  Your Daddy’s not grooming you, he’s using you to toughen up Hakeem and mold him in his image.  As soon as he uses you up, he’s going to drop you just like he did your Mama.  Mark my words.

 

Excellent thought!!

[Biggie B]

Sooooooooo Andre doesn't have Bi-Polar disorder anymore.

 

 

I'm sure when he was hospitalized (or wherever he was), he took his meds faithfully and received therapy. So I'm thinking that he's still taking his meds even now that he's back at home. Still bi-polar, but managing it day to day.

[BaggythePanther]

Anika: Catfight with Cookie probably ranks up there with the Alexis-Krystal cat fight in Dynasty.  Loved how Andre looked frustrated pulling Cookie off and holding her back.

 

Not sure if it was a coincidence or a shout out but I thought it was pretty funny that Anika and Cookie ended up falling onto the pool table.

[Artsda]

 

Watch out, Jamal.  Your Daddy’s not grooming you, he’s using you to toughen up Hakeem and mold him in his image.  As soon as he uses you up, he’s going to drop you just like he did your Mama.

I don't think so, Lucious knows that Hakeem joined up with the enemy while Jamal was dangling him over a balcony and that Andre/Hakeem were in on the arrest. Lucious figured that out instantly. I think he sees Jamal as more his kindred spirit, the writers block, the working together at the old house, becoming the big celebrity and I think for sure Lucious knows about the rap battle since all the cell phones video taping. 

 

I actually think he sees Jamal as more than just the gay one now. Lucious was even going after Rambo over what he said for Jamal. 

[drivethroo]

I don't see Andre's age as an impediment because the Facebook guy isn't too much older than Andre.

 

Hakeem's age IS an impediment because he's still a teenager.  Plus he's implusive & immature.

 

Of the 3 brothers, if only 1 could rule Empire, it should be Jamal because I think he's the only one who genuinely loves Empire.  Andre & Hakeem love Empire because they each think they're entitled to it.  I think Jamal would love Empire even if he weren't running it.

 

But the 3 brothers should be running Empire side by side, with each of them using their unique skill to help the company.

 

I think Boo Boo Kitty is going to end up pregnant and not know if Hakeem or Luscious is the baby daddy.

 

Season 2 will be called Luscious's Revenge.  Everyone will be under suspicion and attack, with maybe the exception of Jamal.

[lonestar]

Cookie needs to meet Ray Donovan, they both like to make use of pool tables.

 

Ray sure knows how to deal with thugs, rappers,  and their managers.  

[Ohgeez]

I think Boo Boo Kitty is going to end up pregnant and not know if Hakeem or Luscious is the baby daddy

That is the first thing I thought of when saw them together.

I think Boo Boo Kitty is going to end up pregnant and not know if Hakeem or Luscious is the baby daddy

That is the first thing I thought of when saw them together.

[funkopop]

I think Boo Boo Kitty is going to end up pregnant and not know if Hakeem or Luscious is the baby daddy

That is the first thing I thought of when saw them together.

I think Boo Boo Kitty is going to end up pregnant and not know if Hakeem or Luscious is the baby daddy

That is the first thing I thought of when saw them together.

 

Ohmygod!!! The karma if that actually happens,  I enjoy Boo Boo Kitty and I'm hoping that her and Hakeem haven't actually had sex just did some heavy petting. 

[Milz]

I think Boo Boo Kitty is going to end up pregnant and not know if Hakeem or Luscious is the baby daddy

That is the first thing I thought of when saw them together.

I think Boo Boo Kitty is going to end up pregnant and not know if Hakeem or Luscious is the baby daddy

That is the first thing I thought of when saw them together.

 

Berreti could be the daddy too based on his comment Lucious a couple episodes ago. Imagine: Anika's baby born with loads of black hair and a really, really bad beard. *ick*

 

And anyway, Lucious can't be the father because we'll conveniently learn that he had a vasectomy shortly after Lola was born. ;-)

Edited March 19, 2015 by Milz

[After7Only]

I loved Jamal grabbing Baretti and threatening to through him over the balcony. I thought that because it was riffed off the Suge Knight/Vanilla Ice incident that it was believable. Of course, Suge is huge man compared to Jussi.

 

I'm pretty sure Suge Knight got the idea from the movie The Five Heartbeats.  Big Red dangled somoene over the balcony over some music royalties.   

[funkopop]

Loved Agent Carter loudly saying they can't find their STAR WITNESS VERNON ANYWHERE,  IT WOULD BE A SHAME IF SOMETHING WOULD BEFALL THE ONLY MAN KEEPING LUCIOUS LYON IN JAIL. Backstage at his concert no less, filled to the brim with his cronies, family and fans.  Of course by then its a moot point but way to go!  Peggy Carter would never.

Edited March 19, 2015 by funkopop

[SnarkKitty]

That ish was CAH-RAZY. I can't remember the last time I was so hyped by a show that I had to keep my laptop at hand for commercial commentary. My daughter was on Twitter throughout but I wasn't about to miss a minute fooling around. It was legit appointment TV in the 'Kitty joint! Upgraded snacks and all, hell, we even took the sushi out of the plastic containers and put it on plates, washed down with the Cliquot instead of the mimosa-mixer Korbel, 'cause it was that kinda night.

 

Me when Rhonda wouldn't call the cops: "Why is Rhonda stressed? She's a blonde white woman. They're gonna come in and arrest dead Vernon's ass and beat the hell up Andre and ask her if SHE'S okay."

 

I'm curious as to why Lucious saw no need to confront Boo Boo Kitty after catching her with his baby son's dick inside of her.  Furthermore, how could Lucious not want to pounce on Hakeem?  It's these lack of scenes that make me crazy!

 

That's exactly what we were yelling! Shit was just going from scene to scene. Got a man hanging over the ledge? Commercial break - back to the office. Wha...??!

 

Manslaughter and then a pregnancy announcement?  I need to pick Anika's pearls off the floor so I can clutch them!!

 

Ha!!

 

"Use your inside voice when you talk to Becky"

Next meeting with my boss, that's my new line to her ass!

 

I was howling. There were too many moments, I was done when it was over.

[Gigi43]

Ray sure knows how to deal with thugs, rappers, and their managers.

Now there's a cross over, Ray handles Lucious like he did Cookie Brown. Then our Cookie tries to get him to make facial expressions. Edited March 19, 2015 by Gigi43

[Vixenstud]

 

I'm pretty sure Suge Knight got the idea from the movie The Five Heartbeats.  Big Red dangled somoene over the balcony over some music royalties.

"If you have any questions about royalties or the way I do my books, my hours are from?"

 

(Points index finger at After7Only's head) - "My hours are from...?!"

Edited March 19, 2015 by Vixenstud

[CofCinci]

Was anyone waiting for the reveal that Uncle Vernon physically or sexually abused Andre during his childhood as they fought?

 

Perhaps Vernon is still alive?

[MizLottie]

 

That ish was CAH-RAZY. I can't remember the last time I was so hyped by a show that I had to keep my laptop at hand for commercial commentary. My daughter was on Twitter throughout but I wasn't about to miss a minute fooling around. It was legit appointment TV in the 'Kitty joint! Upgraded snacks and all, hell, we even took the sushi out of the plastic containers and put it on plates, washed down with the Cliquot instead of the mimosa-mixer Korbel, 'cause it was that kinda night.

 

Me when Rhonda wouldn't call the cops: "Why is Rhonda stressed? She's a blonde white woman. They're gonna come in and arrest dead Vernon's ass and beat the hell up Andre and ask her if SHE'S okay."

Oh SnarkKitty, you had me dying laughing! 

 

Why oh why did they put Miss Patti LaBelle in 6" heels?  Someone had to practically hoist her up the stairs and then she was taking mincing steps, afraid to turn an ankle.  You could tell they kept cutting the scene so it wouldn't be so obvious.

[angelita100]

So during Lucious' final series of flashbacks when they showed him in doo rag shooting someone... THAT was the original Bunky kill that I saw when I went to the preview in December.  They had reshot the entire scene by the time the show aired.

[photo fox]

Me when Rhonda wouldn't call the cops: "Why is Rhonda stressed? She's a blonde white woman. They're gonna come in and arrest dead Vernon's ass and beat the hell up Andre and ask her if SHE'S okay."

Fan wanking here, but maybe she was afraid they'd arrest Andre? She seems pretty focused on protecting him, even when he doesn't want her to.

TH just has insane chemistry with everyone, even the very wooden (here) Jennifer Hudson. He somehow makes me root for Lucious, even though he's a horrible fictional human being.

[MichelEliz]

Sooo....since we didnt see how they disposed of Vernon...and I REALLY want Malik Yoba to return...I'm gonna choose to think that they transported his wounded body to an underground doctor until he heals/comes out of a coma. And when he awakes, he has severe memory loss, absolving Rhonda and ruining the Feds case against Lucious. LOLL! A gal can dream, cant she? ;-)

[Gigi43]

I think Rhonda was afraid for both of them but especially for Andre, though her prints are on the murder weapon, Andre just got out of a mental hospital, that he was forced into after freaking out in a public place. That doesn't look good at all when now having a dead body in your living room.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Gigi43

[Ohwell]

I stopped watching this show after episode 8 because Cookie just wore me out, but tuned in to the finale out of curiosity.  Sometimes, it's the "quiet" ones who hold a show together--the glue.  Vernon was that glue.  You need characters to balance the obvious, wacky, scene-chewing, over the top ones like Cookie, Lucious, and the sons.  Vernon was that character.  It was a mistake to kill him off.  Oh well, at least Becky and Porsha are still there.

 

I never, ever, ever thought I'd say this, but I actually like Hakeem more that the other two sons; the broom is now in the closet.  I liked Jamal in the beginning but I began to see him later on as just spiteful, and kinda bitchy.  Plus, I always thought he should be rapping on Glee.  Andre, bless his heart, always creeped me out, bipolar illness notwithstanding.

[Syndicate]

Was anyone waiting for the reveal that Uncle Vernon physically or sexually abused Andre during his childhood as they fought?

 

Perhaps Vernon is still alive?

This is where my mind went in the very first episode!  There was just something so cryptic about Uncle Vernon's and Andre's conversation in the pilot.

[Chicago Redshirt]

What type of an artist was Lucious?  In the beginning of the series they portrayed him as this hard core rapper but whenever the boys pay homage to him through one of his old songs its this mellow R&B sound.  I remember that ridiculous hip hop music video they showed of Lucious getting pulled over by the cops and the Kid FoFo episode where Cookie referenced him being street and all that.  I guess Lucious could have grown as an artist but I found that a little weird. 

We've heard just a handful of Lucious's hits, as far as I can remember: "You're So Beautiful" and in the latest episode "What the DJ Say" as interpreted by Hakeem and Jamal, and "Whatever Makes You Happy" as done by Jennifer Hudson and some other dude. So out of those, it would seem to me (not a music critic or a particularly big R&B fan) to be more along the lines of the pop-ier side of R&B rather than the street/hardcore kind of person the show was telling us he was.

 

We haven't heard a single Lucious rap, as far as I know. 

[ParadoxLost]

So during Lucious' final series of flashbacks when they showed him in doo rag shooting someone... THAT was the original Bunky kill that I saw when I went to the preview in December.  They had reshot the entire scene by the time the show aired.

 

Does that mean that originally Lucious shot Bunky sometime in the past and it was a secret hanging over his head for years?  And in the finale, did they forget that?  Because I thought they were revealing some other murder related to how Cookie ended up in prison.

[After7Only]

"If you have any questions about royalties or the way I do my books, my hours are from?"

 

(Points index finger at After7Only's head) - "My hours are from...?!"

 

"9....{sniffle, sniffle}....to 5"

 

Yeah I'm pretty sure that balcony scene is an homage to the Five Heartbeats, rather than Suge/Vanilla Ice. 

[Gemma Violet]

Did anyone notice that when Lucious was under the influence of the pain-killing meds, instead of mumbling random nonsensical phrases like most people do, he uttered complete sentences outlining what he was guilty of and that he really wasn't sick.  Or am I wrong?  Are their meds that can do that?  

[One Tough Cookie]

I''m  sorry, I found Jennifer Hudson's vocal exercising just annoying.  The screeching just hurt my ears {and I enjoy gospel music, just not her stylings}.

 

I want Cookie's fur collection.

 

Loved the pearl-choke!

 

That's all for now, I have to re-watch tonight on my larger screen tv--I viewed it in my bedroom where the screen I small and the impact less.

[coloradoqt]

 

First of all, he did more talking than rapping.  Second

There is a "performance" not sure what its called.That is what black rambo was doing. One person does his thing and like he did call out someone to outdo him, the person who  comes up next,  is trying to do better than the previous performer, the crowd votes for the best one and a prize usually money is given to the winner, There was a short-lived TV show about this. Its the (IMO) hip hop version of the coffee house poetry reading

 

If Lucious/Empire has 100 million dollars to give to a foundation he/Lucious wants to start to 'buy" Andre, and he killed Bunkie rather than give him 3 million dollars or Cookie 5 million, he need his ass kicked

 

I fully expect Andre/Rhonda to try to frame Lucious for Vernon's death. It won't be hard, Vernon was the person who named Lucious for Bunkie's murder, this shows Lucious is capable of murder. Who else had a motive to kill Vernon?

[FuriousStyles]

I'm with those that don't think Vernon is really dead.  There has to be a reason why the writers completely glossed over what happened to his body.

 

I read here that Malik made a comment about Jussie being gay in an interview, and I was dreading it was some sort of Isiah Washington/Grey's Anatomy repeat, but it definitely wasn't anything like that, so I'm thinking maybe this is Malik's "timeout" for accidentally outing Jussie (who told Ellen he was never in the closet to begin with) and he'll be back at some later date.  At least that's what I'm hoping.  Vernon is a great calm, collected character in the middle of a storm of crazies.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

Does that mean that originally Lucious shot Bunky sometime in the past and it was a secret hanging over his head for years?  And in the finale, did they forget that?  Because I thought they were revealing some other murder related to how Cookie ended up in prison.

I am assuming that in an earlier version they had the doo-rag killing be the killing of Bunky, and then changed it for whatever reason. Bunky was alive until the show started.

 

Did anyone notice that when Lucious was under the influence of the pain-killing meds, instead of mumbling random nonsensical phrases like most people do, he uttered complete sentences outlining what he was guilty of and that he really wasn't sick.  Or am I wrong?  Are their meds that can do that?  

 

No doctor or pharmacist, but I would imagine that there are drugs that can induce hallucinations and that people could react to them. And of course, the cause of his hallucinations might not be drug-related at all but might be the result of a guilty conscience. I've certainly seen people talk in their sleep in complete sentences.

 

If Lucious/Empire has 100 million dollars to give to a foundation he/Lucious wants to start to 'buy" Andre, and he killed Bunkie rather than give him 3 million dollars or Cookie 5 million, he need his ass kicked

 

I fully expect Andre/Rhonda to try to frame Lucious for Vernon's death. It won't be hard, Vernon was the person who named Lucious for Bunkie's murder, this shows Lucious is capable of murder. Who else had a motive to kill Vernon?

There's a difference between setting up a foundation with a $100 mill once the IPO is set to magically make all involved billionaires, and giving Bunkie $3 mill now, $10 mill later, knowing the payoffs will never stop and never knowing when (not if) or how he might decide to undermine the Empire. Also, giving something to his flesh-and-blood that he could build into his own and to make a potentially great consolation prize for not getting to run Empire is fundamentally different than giving this leech something. 

But Lucious needs his ass kicked on general principle.

 

Among the people who have potential motive to kill Vernon that we've seen or heard of: Beretti would love to take out Lucious's right-hand man. Vernon's drug problem means that any number of dealers might have wanted him gone. Someone affiliated with the Scary Bird guy might want revenge for his death, and Malcolm's not around so he might take it out on Vernon. The gangbanger who "confessed" to killing Bunkie in order to get his family situated for life might not be too happy about it coming out that Vernon is apparently backing out of the deal, so he could have had people take Vernon out. Andre recently was upset at a ton of people and institutionalized. Some of Vernon and Lucious friends from the street back in the day might have a beef with him. Someone connected to the dangerous guy that Cookie had killed might have jumped to the conclusion that Lucious and Vernon were behind the hit and took Vernon out. 

Edited March 19, 2015 by Chicago Redshirt

[angelita100]

PARAROXLOST - No. I just meant that in the original airing of episode one that they showed to preview audiences - the final scene where Lucious shoots and kills  Bunky was completely reshot by the time the show aired.  But they seemed to forget that when they did the flashback last night.  I could see how people think Lucious shot someone else or that they were showing him shooting the other person he supposedly killed back in the day.

[Sentient Meat]

In 2015, Da White Walker... is a cooler sounding name than Luscious Lyon.

[WearyTraveler]

So during Lucious' final series of flashbacks when they showed him in doo rag shooting someone... THAT was the original Bunky kill that I saw when I went to the preview in December.  They had reshot the entire scene by the time the show aired.

 

We have seen Lucious commit two murders:  The one that sent Cookie to prison and Bunky.

 

In these last two episodes, whenever the show had scenes with the Lyons before Cookie went to jail Lucious was wearing the doo rag and Cookie had blonde wigs.  When they interrogated blonde haired Cookie, they asked her to point the finger at Lucious and she said no.  In the present time they ask her again to point the finger at Lucious, this time for killing Bunky, and she says no again.

 

Two different murders separated by 17 years (the time Cookie spent in prison), but she still won't rat him out.

Edited March 20, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[Scarlett45]

We have seen Lucious commit two murders: The one that sent Cookie to prison and Bunky.

In these last two episodes, whenever the show had scenes with the Lyons before Cookie went to jail Lucious was wearing the doo rag and Cookie had blonde wigs. When they interrogated blonde haired Cookie, they asked her to point the finger at Lucious and she said no. In the present time they ask her again to point the finger at Lucious, this time for killing Bunky, and she says no again.

Two different murders separated by 17 years (the time Cookie spent in prison), but she still won't rat him out.

Cookie went to prision for drug distribution. They wanted her to hand over Lucious as a part of the drug ring, not for a murder. The murder she testified about after she got out wasn't commited by Lucious.

[Mya Stone]

Say hello to Empire Records latest artist. 

[rozen]

I think we've never head Lucious rap because A) TH probably can't and B) they established that Beretti owns all his early work. I don't think it's too strange he would revamp his sound/style and go a different direction once he broke away from Creedmore. 

 

I could watch Anika vs Cookie all day, erryday! I love that Anika was no wilting flower, Cookie tried to throw deuces and walk and she was like "naw, bitch, we're finishing this now." 

 

I'm surprised that Andre didn't point out that he'd been Lucious's loyal stooge for years, and look where it got him, instead of glowering at Jamal's ascension to power. Why the hell didn't Vernon just leave and come back another time, instead of trying to beat Andre into submission? After all those years cleaning up after Lucious, you'd think he could read people better. Too bad Lucifer wasn't there to see Rhonda KO Vernon, maybe then he'd respect her, too. Andre doesn't deserve her. "The woman that I idolized as a gentle and pure being that I eventually wanted to schtupp was taken to the dark side by my father, so I guess I'm ready to go back to our screwed up relationship now."

 

TH was kind of hot playing the guitar. I feel dirty *takes 200 showers*.

[Happytobehere]

 

I hate HAAAAAATE that they reduced Anika to sleeping with the father and then the son. 

Actually, Anika wasn't reduced to anything. The showrunners have repeatedly likened the show to King Lear, so this sort of dysfunctional sexual dynamic it true to the play.

I knew that Vernon was a dead man as soon as I saw that candlestick in her hands.  There is nothing more deadly in tvland than a damn candlestick as a weapon.  It will 100% kill a character every time.  Knife? Just a scratch.  Bullets? Pssh.  Missiles. Totally survivable.  Candlestick?  RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

 

I so want to believe in the moment between Jamal and...Lucious in the dressing room.  I really, really did.  But the problem with that scene was Lucious' mouth was moving.  So obviously it was all lies coming out.  And I swear to god that if Jamal turns on Cookie in favor of Lucious I don't really care what he does in the future.  There will be no redeeming him.  I will root for EVERYONE that's not in the interest of him.  I don't care if it's Baretti or Annika.  Like holy crap!  I like Hakeem more than him right now.  What the hell just happened?  How in the hell did everything get so turned around?  I'm mad at Jamal?  I'm okay with Hakeem?  Actually, now that I've listed how everything has flipped for me since the show started, I probably won't feel the same later if he does.  I can't really imagine it.  But I never for one second imagined liking Hakeem. So...there is that.  Although if Jamal does side with Lucious instead of Cookie I think that's a bigger betrayal then Hakeem having Mommy issues.  You cannot have flashback memories of your mother being there for you always and then juxtapose that with Lucious literally throwing him in the trash and say "Yeah, I'm in Lucious' corner." NO!  JUST NO!

 

While busting someone in the head and killing them is realistic, head wounds bleed the most and are the hardest to stop, I do love this soap trope. The only deaths that are ever real is when killed by a candlestick or something else which seems ridiculous. Stab, shoot, set fire to and blow someone up and all they will need is a bandaid and a week of bed rest.

Jamal greatly disappointed me last night, but I always make myself remember that one if the first things we heard about Jamal via Cookie was that he was just like his father. Sadly, she has been proven all too right.

I think the Vernon killing is a mistake, we could have gotten so much backstory from his character. Unless they somehow manage to resurrect him or Bunkie, value history was lost. Someone posted upthread that Rhonda would have been a better kill. I disagree becuase we still have a lot to delve into with her and her "love" for Andre, which I'm still not 100% sold on even though I do think he is the more evil of the two, sympathy inducing mental illness be damned. I say Anika should have been killed, we already know what her deal is and I think the actress is among the weakest on the show.

Two comments from Lucious -- sacrificing your queen and telling Cookie she has never been anything but a ghetto rat let me know my initial belief that he set Cookie up for the arrest and prison term are accurate. Those statements reflect how Lucifer feels in what passes for his heart.

Am I horrible for hating the reveal that Lucifer wasn't dying? I actually never believed he had ALS, but I thought the someone was poisoning him angle would have been better than what we got; although I guess they could still go that route.

At this point, I can't see any coming back in terms of redemption for Lucifer, and Jamal is headed down the same dark path. I want Cookie to find love with someone who can keep her about of Lucifer's clutches. Speaking of Cookie and love, what was the point of the Malcolm character?

[SimoneS]

TH was kind of hot playing the guitar. I feel dirty *takes 200 showers*.

 

Bwah! I felt the same way. 

[Mozelle]

I'm finally caught up! I'm gonna have to go ahead and buy some new millennium rabbit ears so I can watch local stations live. I can't be missing out on the chatter for a full day afterward.

 

Anyway, some of y'all have me wondering if Vernon is still alive. I was all set to screen print some "Rest in Ash" t-shirts for Malik Yoba. You know what else was ashy? Black Rambo's "flow." I have better skills and I'm not even a rapper in my dreams. That mess was weaker than the weakest of teas. I was mad at the crowd pumping that mess up, too. Naw, b. Nope. Even Iggy Azalea was like, That's whack. 

 

Cookie and Boo Boo Kitty putting in that work in stilettos had me dying. Fake ass Halle Berry got a few things in her. Who knew?! I'm interested in this grudging alliance between the two now, though. I'm also curious about this Jamal/Lucious business. Jamal is probably more like Lucious than either man realizes (and I'm not just talking about the balcony dangling that Jamal did, but there was also the punch that Hakeem got courtesy of Jamal's fist), especially with the way Jamal automatically looked at Cookie in disgust. Bruh, you don't know the whole story. OK?

[Bandolero]

I really hated that Anika and Hakeem slept together. Just so tacky. I give Jamal more leeway cause he is young but Annika should know better... this totally cheapens the character IMO. They both are acting like vindictive children... sleeping with each other just to get back at Lucious. 

 

I get that Lucious is horrible but I swear his kids act like he owes them his company and his money. They have all benefited greatly from his riches. If they so detest him why don't they cut all ties (including the financial benefits) and make it on their own. They all want to go hard at him while living off his wealth and connections.

[lonestar]

Malik Yoda revealed today that the producers told him his services would not be required in Season 2 and that he was being killed off.  So, he's not getting up off that carpet, probably wrapped in it and transported to the Berkshires.

[aprilbabe]

We have seen Lucious commit two murders:  The one that sent Cookie to prison and Bunky.

 

In these last two episodes, whenever the show had scenes with the Lyons before Cookie went to jail Lucious was wearing the doo rag and Cookie had blonde wigs.  When they interrogated blonde haired Cookie, they asked her to point the finger at Lucious and she said no.  In the present time they ask her again to point the finger at Lucious, this time for killing Bunky, and she says no again.

 

Two different murders separated by 17 years (the time Cookie spent in prison), but she still won't rat him out.

 

Lucious killed Bunkie and killed 4 people back in the day. But neither one of those murders had to do with Cookie going to jail. Cookie went to jail for drugs only, they weren't asking her about Lucious murdering anyone.

I think we've never head Lucious rap because A) TH probably can't and B) they established that Beretti owns all his early work. I don't think it's too strange he would revamp his sound/style and go a different direction once he broke away from Creedmore. 

 

 

He was pretty decent in Hustle and Flow

 

I get that Lucious is horrible but I swear his kids act like he owes them his company and his money. They have all benefited greatly from his riches. If they so detest him why don't they cut all ties (including the financial benefits) and make it on their own. They all want to go hard at him while living off his wealth and connections.

Agreed, They are spoiled, entitled brats and owed nothing. You can't complain about hating your daddy and saying he's the devil, while benefiting from his riches

Edited March 20, 2015 by aprilbabe

[Syndicate]

Malik Yoda revealed today that the producers told him his services would not be required in Season 2 and that he was being killed off.  So, he's not getting up off that carpet, probably wrapped in it and transported to the Berkshires.

Too bad the producers/writers couldn't see what many of us saw.  Vernon could have and should have been a key player.  Let the drivel continue!

[Racj82]

You know how some shows do (for the lack of better phrase) a "surprise, the baby is black!" reveal? She will deliver a white baby.

she's one of the least important characters on the show. Adding a pregnancy storyline in later years is usually for family oriented shows that have kids that have gotten to old. So, nothing off about what they are doing with Rhonda and Andre. They are also married. why not have a child?

[wanderingstar]

Speaking of Cookie and love, what was the point of the Malcolm character?

So Cookie could get some nookie with someone other than Lucious. And I wholeheartedly support that.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[Telechy]

 

So Cookie could get some nookie with someone other than Lucious. And I wholeheartedly support that.

 

The cabin scene was hot as hell but pure Silhouette Romance, complete with a roaring fire and a bearskin (see what I did there?) rug. I laughed when Malcolm said he had been offered a High Level Government Job because no one actually talks like that. 

 

If the show didn't hand out plots like they were candy on Halloween, we would have scene Cookie realize that at least some of her feelings for Lucious were due to him being the only man she's ever been with. If Cookie is TPH's age, then she was 27 when she went into the slammer, so she was with Lucious very young--maybe late teens? Now she suddenly finds herself a mature woman and can enjoy a relationship but without losing her head or heart over it right away (yes, making out with Malcolm in the office wasn't exactly discreet, but she politely told him "no" about going to DC. And all my suspicions about Malcolm were apparently wrong to this point, because he was very gentlemanly, not judging her one way or the other when she said he was her second, and inviting her to take the lead, swoon. But then Malcolm vanished, never to be seen again in the episode. (At least he got more lines than Ryan, who was there to get nailed to a desk and then shouted for by Lucious. Seriously, where was BF Ryan when Jamal was Machiavelli-ing his way up to heir apparent?)

 

 

He was pretty decent in Hustle and Flow

 

Apparently TH acts his best while pretending to compose hip hop songs in a beat-up urban living room. I just wish the song had been better because the acting was very intense but vocally, Lucious and Jamal didn't mesh well together and as a poster on another forum said, Lucious's voice sounds like a hoarse frog from the '60s.

[SnarkKitty]

I lov d the shout out to "Whoop that trick" in the duet w Lucious and Jamal.

That was everything.

 

Who In The Hell Left The Gate Open to think that Jamal going to a hardcore rap battle and singing in his magical falsetto was a  good idea cause in reality he would have got ridiculed off that stage.

 

I knew that Vernon was a dead man as soon as I saw that candlestick in her hands.  There is nothing more deadly in tvland than a damn candlestick as a weapon.  It will 100% kill a character every time.  Knife? Just a scratch.  Bullets? Pssh.  Missiles. Totally survivable.  Candlestick?  RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

On the damned floor. I can't. Just cannot.

 

For a second before Rhonda boing-yoing-yoinged Vernon upside the side during his fight with Andre I thought he was going to die but then I said ‘nah, they wouldn’t do that’…my bad!  Bitch hit him till his blood flowed like wine.

Buh-bye, Derek Luke….and please get rid of that fuckin’ part in your head!

 

See ya'll crazy cats when the new season starts.

(Gives a falsetto 'Bitch!', drops mic)

 

1. Fucking hilarious.

2. I am ALWAYS here for your disdain of Derek's part.

3. What us go'n do, VixenStud?

 

Interesting that Rhonda is okay with role-playing Andre’s infidelities and with him offering her as a party favor to his clients, but his bonding with another woman over his spiritual awakening makes her walk out.  And yeah, yeah, emotional affair, blah blah, intimacy, blah blah blah.  It’s still very curious.

 

While I continue to love the musical selections, I can do without multiple songs by Jamal.  He’s great in doses, but his strained, watery vocals get hard for me to take on repeat.  

 

Okay? That is exactly what I was saying last night. But your latter statement? No ma'am! I cannot co-sign, because the love for Jussie/Jamal and his singing is strong with this one.

 

Oh SnarkKitty, you had me dying laughing!

At your service!

Edited March 20, 2015 by SnarkKitty

[wanderingstar]

Me when Rhonda wouldn't call the cops: "Why is Rhonda stressed? She's a blonde white woman. They're gonna come in and arrest dead Vernon's ass and beat the hell up Andre and ask her if SHE'S okay."

 

 

#truefacts

[Nanrad]

Empire is more than Cookie's $400K and Andre's 14 hour work days. Yes, Lucious had help. But, plenty of talented people with $400K and dedicated, educated, worker bee children, don't build billion dollar empires. And, Cookie doing 17 years for Lucious, and leaving Jamal to be terrorized by him, is on her. She had other options. 

 

How does Rhonda think Andre is qualified to run a company whose (non-family) board members don't respect him? How could Cookie really think that a kid who allowed himself to videotaped peeing in restaurants a few months ago is ready to run a Fortune 500 company? Jamal ain't ready either. But, if Vernon had been allowed to live, his plan for him and Andre to teach Jamal what he need to know might have worked.

 

Why couldn't Andre and Hakeem find it in themselves to be at least a little happy for Jamal considering what he's been through with Lucious? 

Regarding Cookie's 17 years and Lucious treatment of Jamal, I have to disagree. For someone with her background and mindset, there weren't many other options. Many people, not all, who come from rough areas like they did hustle aka sell drugs to make ends meet or save up to go legit. That dream was never coming true if Cookie hadn't hustled like she did. Cookie expressed reluctance to continue because she she felt uneasy, but continued to because they needed that money to fund what eventually became Empire. So, when she got caught, it sucked, but in her mind, at least Lucious had the money to start the label and her kids would have a better environment than she did. To the other point: Cookie isn't responsible for Lucious' actions; Lucious is responsible for his own actions. Not to excuse it or underplay the severity of what Lucious did, but I don't think the trashcan incident was a common occurrence. Cookie probably got at Lucious about that and controlled how he spoke to Jamal/treated him before she went to jail.

 

Honestly speaking, I do believe that Cookie has a right to be involved in the company. She has good musical instincts and knows how to recruit as well as manage her talent. This isn't someone who donated money, but is incompetent. Cookie is a natural in that world and Lucious knows it, but initially kept her out because she is a reminder of the past, and then kicked her out because she dared fuck a man who isn't him, despite his sleeping around. 

 

As far as their kids go, that's on Lucious: he told them that he was giving them company to one of them once he died. Sure, it's not a blood oath, but one kid has a huge ego with a mommy complex, the other is eager for attention and to prove himself, and the last has an emotionally toxic relationship with Lucious and is also trying to prove himself. He also pit these three against one another, so they could prove who deserved his company. If he hadn't put them in that position and raised them better, none of them would feel entitled. Wasn't he going on about carrying out his legacy through his kids? He instilled those ideas in them--that's his fault.

 

None are qualified, but I think they all would've took the necessary steps to understanding the business and shadowing competent people (or Cookie would've made them).

I think that all the brothers know a lot about the business based on what we have seen so far. Andre is into the business side, while Jamal and Hakeem seem to know a lot about the contracts and recruiting and developing talent. The problem is that only one person can run the company and of three sons, Jamal is the best choice. Besides, it is not like Lucious is handing over Empire to Jamal this very minute. He is grooming and mentoring him to run Empire eventually, maybe 10 to 20 years. By then Jamal will be more than qualified to run Empire. It is a viable succession plan that would instill confidence in the shareholders and board of directors. I wish that Andre and Hakeem could live with this, but clearly they cannot so there will continue to be power plays until Jamal eventually morphs into Lucious and starts smacking them down. As for Cookie, no matter which of her sons end up with the company, she will always have a place there. Lucious is her real enemy.

I disagree: Andre knows about certain aspect, but he doesn't understand the music/artist part. He understands money, but I think he is limited just like his brothers. Hakeem and Jamal are both familiar with contracts, but I don't believe that necessarily makes them savvy or experts. Jamal has recruited, but personally, I haven't seen enough to believe he can run a business. I think they'd be better off running the label together with someone advising them.

 

Yeah. Cookie never seems to do her homework. I didn't understand her murderous rage over the killing of a cousin? I can understand being upset about being lied to. But - and I am not condoning murder at all - it would be understandable for someone to take it to that level to avenge perhaps the murder of a child or a spouse or a parent - but Cousin Bunkie? Come on! He didn't even know she had gotten out of jail. So, obviously Bunkie was not that close to her. You gonna sneak up on a sick drugged up man and try to suffocate him in his sleep because of some babbling in a dream? We know he killed Bunkie but for all she knows he could be having a reaction to drugs!

Bunkie was her favorite cousin. For example, my older sister cousins three of our cousins to be like blood brothers--she refers to them as such and gets upset if anyone underplays their importance to her. I don't know if Cookie felt that way about Bunkie, but he wasn't a random cousin or someone she had fun without, but didn't care for. We don't know the nature of their relationship or if a fallout happened, but we do know that Lucious made it known that Cookie cared deeply for him, so I'm to saying it was irrelevant that he didn't know, but rather, he still meant a lot to Cookie. It wasn't the fact that he was just mumbling, it was the coherent sentences as well as, despite being under the influence, his intensity and focus. Drugged/sleeping people can say some crazy stuff, but they also can tell them truth as well.

 

I could watch Anika vs Cookie all day, erryday! I love that Anika was no wilting flower, Cookie tried to throw deuces and walk and she was like "naw, bitch, we're finishing this now." 

Cookie toughened her up. lol

 

I believe that BBK used to be much more composed pre-Cookie. She was used to (almost) having everything she wanted (minus a faithful Lucious) and people listening to her/respecting her because of her background and how she carried herself--like a dignified lady, and then Cookie happened. She's no longer number one and has to compete with this woman who didn't have to work her way up and probably never went to college. Lucious wanted his ex wife and Cookie doesn't respect her and isn't intimidated by her. She couldn't rattled Cookie. It didn't  help that Cookie still look good and had good business instincts. So, BBK tried to prove she could be like Cookie in some ways i.e. the meeting at the diner, which was subsequently shot up. I can see someone hitting Cookie for the throwing of the drink/punch combo, but BBK did it because Cookie completely turned her world upside and she's ready to talk with her fists.