Dizzychickstar March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 I shouted so loud when I heard it that I startled my son! So glad we didn't have to wait. Free from renewal purgatory at last! Hollowluyah! 3 Link to comment
Shannon L. March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 I shouted so loud when I heard it that I startled my son! I had to come out of lurking for this: I did, too! I shouted just as he was walking by and he jumped about a foot :) I'm so glad this is coming back. 4 Link to comment
phoenics March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 I shouted so loud when I heard it that I startled my son! So glad we didn't have to wait. Free from renewal purgatory at last! Hollowluyah! Me too! I mean, I didn't startle anyone except maybe my neighbors, but man I totally shouted - screamed actually. It was so unexpected - I was just reading westallen pages on tumblr and came across the news and screamed and ran straight over here! Oh Praise be praise be!! Man I'm happy. Wow... I'm feeling emotional you guys... I love ya'll so much - we get to be together again for a S3!!! 6 Link to comment
CocoaGoddess March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 PRESENT! So happy to be able to celebrate with you all! And yes, we should be celebrating because ... WE did that! Seethe Goffman ... SEETHE. 7 Link to comment
Enero March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 I'm so excited about the renewal! Interesting that the new head writer has a resume very similar to Goffman. Looks like both worked on a White Collar together. I just hope Mr. Campbell can bring it. Link to comment
Happy Belly March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 Cannot stop smiling!!! This was such great news and made my day. Thank you Fox for knowing what was the right thing to do. Now, can I ask a question? I really feel stupid but I keep seeing these words "showrunner" and "shipping" and I have no idea what they mean in the context being used here in the Sleepy Hollow forums. After you stop laughing and pointing at me, would someone please explain what this terminology means, please? I think I'm so blinded by Ichabod's gorgeousness that I am not in my right mind. Link to comment
HalcyonDays March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 Cannot stop smiling!!! This was such great news and made my day. Thank you Fox for knowing what was the right thing to do. Now, can I ask a question? I really feel stupid but I keep seeing these words "showrunner" and "shipping" and I have no idea what they mean in the context being used here in the Sleepy Hollow forums. After you stop laughing and pointing at me, would someone please explain what this terminology means, please? I think I'm so blinded by Ichabod's gorgeousness that I am not in my right mind. No laughing at all - why? I had to learn these terms too! The showrunner is a person who is responsible for the day-to-day operation of a television series—although traditionally such persons were credited as executive producers. A showrunner's duties often combine those traditionally assigned to the writer, executive producer and script editor. Unlike films, where directors are in creative control of a production, in episodic television, the showrunner outranks the director. [Stolen from wikipedia!] Mark Goffman of course was the showrunner for the first 2 seasons. Clifton Campbell has now replaced him for season 3!!! Shipping comes from the term Relationship. It basically means two people who we as fans want to see together in a relationship. When one "ships' or is "shipping" a duo - say Ichabod and Abbie - it means that we want those two people to be together in a romantic relationship. Ships are usually given creative names that smoosh the two character names together. Ichabbie of course, for Ichabod and Abbie. Hope that helps! 3 Link to comment
Miss Dee March 19, 2015 Author Share March 19, 2015 (edited) I'm no expert, but here goes: "Showrunner" refers to the head person running the show. The person in charge of the writer's room, the one who is in charge of day-to-day happenings. The Manager of Operations, if you will. "Shipping" is actively rooting for a romantic pairing in a show or other story. These pairings are usually called "ships", and the people doing the rooting are "shippers". Ah, I see mine is not the first offering, nor the most elegant. Edited March 19, 2015 by Miss Dee 2 Link to comment
Happy Belly March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 Thank you HalcyonDays and Miss Dee for your wonderful explanations. I now totally understand what those terms mean! Link to comment
Bad Bitch In Red March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 Renewed for 18 episode season 3 Yay, now I can watch the last two episodes. 1 Link to comment
Dizzychickstar March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 Goody goody! Since we're teaching terms now, what are "stans"? I thought it had a negative connotation, like in context, "Katrina stans," but...a little help here Link to comment
HalcyonDays March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 Goody goody! Since we're teaching terms now, what are "stans"? I thought it had a negative connotation, like in context, "Katrina stans," but...a little help hereclueless... I guess I know too much slang. stan- nickname for fans who are really obsessed with someone (actor, musician, celebrity). The obsession can reach high levels of crazy or even dangerous behaviour. Crazy, like IchabodCraneRPG and "Sandra". Dangerous, for those fans who stalk and even possibly hurt their targets. Term originated from the Eminem song "Stan" - where the song is about a fan named Stan who is obsessed with Slim Shady (Eminem's alter ego). And I actually knew this, didn't have to look it up! 2 Link to comment
Dizzychickstar March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 Thanks, Halcyon Days! One more...OTP? *going to totally ace the fandom midterm! 2 Link to comment
HalcyonDays March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 OTP - One True Pairing. From what I gather, it's two people who are someone's favourite pairing or ship. Like, they have many "ships", but their OTP is the one they want the most, or love the most. Trust me, I didn't know half of this slang until I started watching SH. Things you learn... 2 Link to comment
Pete Martell March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 Wanted to say kudos to all of you here and elsewhere who fought for the show and fought to take the show back to what worked best - a third season and a brand new showrunner is more than I ever expected a few months ago, and it's at least in part down to the passionate, intelligent fans who made their views clear without crossing the line. 3 Link to comment
jhlipton March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 From the Zap2It article: the third season will explore how the partnership between Crane and Mills will evolve Oh let this please be true! (And by evolve they don't mean "have obstacles out in their path". 3 Link to comment
HalcyonDays March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 From the Zap2It article: Oh let this please be true! (And by evolve they don't mean "have obstacles out in their path". Yeah, surprised no one mentioned this, actually. It definitely made me pull a Mison Eyebrow when I read this. I hope that the show has learned from all of the mistakes of season 2 - and there is a long list, media articles and this thread to document every single one. They can have some disagreements, they can fight, whatever, but just have them together on screen. That's it. It can be like X-Files where one person is ill or seriously injured and the other has to deal with it. In terms of shipping, a poster here and elsewhere has mentioned that they may have Crane going on dates. I'm fine with that too, for these reasons. The show can have Abbie with Calvin or some other guys, Crane dating around and realize that these people are NOT their Witness partner. They are not THE ONE. I'm perfectly fine with that too - in fact some good comedy can be gleaned out of that. Also wanted to point out that I know a lot of us have been on pins and needles with this renewal, but FOX did us good - it's kinda an early announcement for a show that had a semi-poor season 2 and was a 50/50 chance. The deadline was May 11th, at the Upfronts. That FOX gave us the renewal 1.5 months before that, and some of their other shows are still not renewed. So yeah, good times! 3 Link to comment
DearEvette March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 From the 'In The Media thread" How long ago did Goffman get fired? I would actually reverse it and say Goffman started looking in December, after FOX stepped in and demanded changes. I will say that the new showrunner was hired before Feb 23rd. Because Feb 23, Campbell retweeted something about SH being good again (ha!), therefore he already knew he'd be showrunner at that time. I think I kinda agree with that. My own personal speculation is that is was probably no later than when they announced the renewal of Gotham, Brooklyn 99 & Empire which was on Jan 17th. At the time I was a little nervous about SH, but really had little doubt they would not renew. Now as time went on and no announcement was made I got a little nervous. But looking back again, in the comfortable knowledge that we do have the renewal, my gut is that SH was never in real danger because they were openly talking about S3 changes even then and if you think about it reading between the lines it really was all about finding his replacement because he was already done. And going further I see the later episodes -- the rewrites etc. -- as auditions for the writers to see who would keep their jobs and who would be going with Goffmann 2 Link to comment
jhlipton March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 So now I wonder -- if Clifton Campbell was involved in any way from Feb., if he had a hand in the last 2 episodes? If so, even more whooooo and hoooooo than before! 2 Link to comment
spaceghostess March 20, 2015 Share March 20, 2015 Whoo hoo, yippee, and YAAAAY! Hope this Campbell guy knows what he's doing. At least he can't be worse than what we had Season 2. Or could he . . . ? Nope, not going there. Happy thoughts and high hopes for a fantastic Season 3! Link to comment
stealinghome March 23, 2015 Share March 23, 2015 Glad the show is coming back, but 18 episodes (again) is a mistake. Fox would've done much better to go back to 13 episodes. Link to comment
kieyra March 25, 2015 Share March 25, 2015 I don't have a problem with 18 episodes. Writers with a good handle on the characters, and an actual SHOW BIBLE, could give us some very satisfying MOTW episodes. 7 Link to comment
Badsamaritan March 27, 2015 Share March 27, 2015 I don't have a problem with 18 episodes. Writers with a good handle on the characters, and an actual SHOW BIBLE, could give us some very satisfying MOTW episodes. Agreed. The Sandman episode was one of my absolute favorites. Creepy monster, great supporting characters, and ooey gooey Witness goodness. The Glades fandom is a tight knit bunch so here's to hoping they'll become new sleepyheads. 2 Link to comment
Enero April 5, 2015 Share April 5, 2015 Glad the show is coming back, but 18 episodes (again) is a mistake. Fox would've done much better to go back to 13 episodes. I agree. I still kind of feel like FOX and the new writers in charge have no idea what to do with this show and its characters. Less episodes, I think would force them to keep the story tighter and provide very little room for filler. Link to comment
Yolapukka April 7, 2015 Share April 7, 2015 I agree. I still kind of feel like FOX and the new writers in charge have no idea what to do with this show and its characters. Less episodes, I think would force them to keep the story tighter and provide very little room for filler. I think a shorter season is great when there is a strong vision for a show which provides the viewers with an enjoyable ride, but there is no room for missteps or course correction. In the case of this past season, I think we would have simply lost the stand-alone episodes and had a focus on Katrina's journey that was more sustained and monomaniacal than it already was. As much as I like to think of all things Katrina and especially the CFD as filler, that crap was positioned as the main story arc of the season and I think it would have been episodes like Weeping Lady, Mama and Magnum Opus with a different perspective that was either Abbie-centric or cast Katrina in a poor light which would have either not made the cut or been radically different in a shorter season. I tend to think this is the kind of show that can do a lot when they have a little extra room to play. 1 Link to comment
EricaShadows April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I am SO excited! I leave the fandom for a little break after that heartbreaking S2, only to come back and find out that, not only is SH renewed (as if that wasn't good enough), but that Goffman is GONE! Bye bye Goffman, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out! Pure speculation here, but I'm wondering if Goffman had originally had Abbie in mind to "move along" at the end of the season, as in die/leave/etc. and formally move Katrina into her place as Witness but was forced to revamp that with all the issues that come with slumping ratings, poor writing, poor planning, etc. It seemed that he was trying to manuever Katrina into being the new wonderful and couldn't imagine that people wouldn't like her as much as he did and, when Fox came down on him for all the issues with the show, he couldn't get out of the way fast enough. Thus, Katrina going evil and going gone instead of Abbie. Goffman would probably have preffered it the other way around, but couldn't get away with it. JMO on limited sleep and being unable to remember ALL the goodies of the season. 3 Link to comment
DJG1122 April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I am SO excited! I leave the fandom for a little break after that heartbreaking S2, only to come back and find out that, not only is SH renewed (as if that wasn't good enough), but that Goffman is GONE! Bye bye Goffman, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out! Pure speculation here, but I'm wondering if Goffman had originally had Abbie in mind to "move along" at the end of the season, as in die/leave/etc. and formally move Katrina into her place as Witness but was forced to revamp that with all the issues that come with slumping ratings, poor writing, poor planning, etc. It seemed that he was trying to manuever Katrina into being the new wonderful and couldn't imagine that people wouldn't like her as much as he did and, when Fox came down on him for all the issues with the show, he couldn't get out of the way fast enough. Thus, Katrina going evil and going gone instead of Abbie. Goffman would probably have preffered it the other way around, but couldn't get away with it. JMO on limited sleep and being unable to remember ALL the goodies of the season. Upthread, someone speculated that Nicole wasn't asked (apparently not on the list given to the FOX production dept) to do commentary for the DVD for S2 because maybe she wasn't supposed to still be there. Word from the grapevine was that it was only TM, JN and KW to do the commentary. You are not alone in your speculation. But all is good now. Mark Goofman recently tweeted he had spent the day working with Nicole on commentary for the S2 DVD. This forum had a good time imagining his unhappiness both for doing the commentary and having to post that tweet. Link to comment
phoenics April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 You know - I cannot fathom that Goffman thought replacing NB with KW would EVER fly. I mean - seriously? Wow. I really hope that's not it - especially since they would have known by then that NB would still be there. But on the other hand, back when Goffman gave the interviews about Abbie having an angelic experience, I worried she was about to be Cordelia Chase'd. In my heart of hearts, I don't think I truly believed he would actually get rid of Abbie - but I wouldn't be completely surprised if that's what he was planning. I can't believe he would be that stupid - but he seemed to have tunnel vision where Katrina/KW was concerned. Wow - I wish I knew the truth - wow that would be absolutely disgusting if he really was trying to replace NB. I'm so glad he's gone. GONE! But still - wow. If that was his plan - I know we were skipping around calling him out for racism - as an actual racist - but if that was his plan, I can't see any other reason why other than he thought a white actress would be more marketable than a black one. Thank you Empire and thank you Fox. So glad Goffman is gone. Wow did we dodge a bullet. 2 Link to comment
HalcyonDays April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I can't see any other reason why other than he thought a white actress would be more marketable than a black one. It's got nothing to do with race I don't personally think it's only about race. He liked her/lusted after her, she was his muse, all he could talk about was her. Note he rarely talked about Crane/Mison or Nick/Barr either. I will put money that any show he develops and gets aired on CBS, a part will be included that will be perfect for KW, and she'll get a role on it. ETA: I should edit the first sentence actually because DeLurker down there vv is correct also! 1 Link to comment
DeLurker April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 It's a murky issue about what motivated Goffman. On one hand, KW was clearly his muse to the point of it short-circuiting any awareness that she was not going over well with the SH audience. But there had to be a deeply embedded belief that KW was somehow a more marketable product than NB and the public would clearly see the errors of their ways with supporting NB (Ha! Goffman failed to see the Eros of his way!). We'll probably never know for sure and he probably is developing a CBS vehicle for KW, but I really don't care. I only watch Elementary and Person of Interest on CBS so my chances of tripping on it are pretty slim. 2 Link to comment
Yolapukka April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I will put money that any show he develops and gets aired on CBS, a part will be included that will be perfect for KW, and she'll get a role on it. I'll dispute the perfect part because although i think Katia is a limited actress, the writing choices for her character were as bad or worse than her acting choices. She got ridiculous amounts of screen time in which to be a Very Dull Girl where the point of her character was to be nothing more than lovely, hapless and smug and admired by all by virtue of being lovely, hapless and smug. Perhaps that's what Goffman thinks makes an awesomesauce leading female character. Maybe Goffman will look back at her performances and write a character that suffers from a strange intermittent upper body paralysis combined with narcolepsy. Maybe she'll solve crimes while close-talking and gazing soulfully. Katia did better with Katrina when the writing turned away from portraying her as the repository of all womanly virtues and she had to deliver lines that showed a spark of snarky humour or her character displayed genuine anger, though the latter came at a time when the actress was probably feeling actual genuine anger herself, so I don't know how much credit she deserves for that. 2 Link to comment
DJG1122 April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 It's a murky issue about what motivated Goffman. On one hand, KW was clearly his muse to the point of it short-circuiting any awareness that she was not going over well with the SH audience. But there had to be a deeply embedded belief that KW was somehow a more marketable product than NB and the public would clearly see the errors of their ways with supporting NB (Ha! Goffman failed to see the Eros of his way!). We'll probably never know for sure and he probably is developing a CBS vehicle for KW, but I really don't care. I only watch Elementary and Person of Interest on CBS so my chances of tripping on it are pretty slim. Does anyone have any info or contacts with info as to how his family, particularly his wife, reacted to all of this? Surely, his wife was fully aware of his intense interest/behavior. If MY husband had done all of this, we would have had an, um, discussion or two and probably a divorce. Link to comment
vanarnd1 April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 (edited) It's a murky issue about what motivated Goffman. On one hand, KW was clearly his muse to the point of it short-circuiting any awareness that she was not going over well with the SH audience. But there had to be a deeply embedded belief that KW was somehow a more marketable product than NB and the public would clearly see the errors of their ways with supporting NB (Ha! Goffman failed to see the Eros of his way!). I agree I think something in Gothman's sub conscious made him convinced that he needed to push Katrina to the forefront instead of Abbie. In general I think there were issues with how Abbie as a character was treated in Season 2 and to an extent those issues would have surfaced even if Katrina wasn't around. Goffman didn't view Abbie as an priority to the show and I am hopeful that the new leadership will learn from his mistakes. Edited April 20, 2015 by vanarnd1 2 Link to comment
Criminey April 25, 2015 Share April 25, 2015 It's a rainy, windy day and After running errands I decided to binge-watch Sleepy Hollow season 2. My DVR had issues and everything I had saved was gone (Outlander, Forever, Sleepy Hollow and more). Went to On Demand and found only 7 episodes of season 2 - eps 1,2,14,15,16,17,18. The better episodes to be sure; but I still thought it was strange. Essentially most if not all the Katrina centric episodes are missing. Not missing her at all; but still would have liked to see all episodes. There were some good Ichabod and Abbie scenes in those episodes (motorcycle, Orion, more but I can't remember precisely Link to comment
HalcyonDays April 25, 2015 Share April 25, 2015 Went to On Demand and found only 7 episodes of season 2 - eps 1,2,14,15,16,17,18. Bahahahaha!! Someone out there putting up the episodes knows what's going on. I had to look up episode titles and order to see which ones they included: 1 - This is War 2 - The Kindred 14 - Kali Yuga (goodbye Hawley) 15 - Spellcaster (setting up evil K) 16 - What Lies Beneath (heavy Ichabbie) 17 - Awakening (goodbye Henry) 18 - Tempus Fugit - (goodbye and good riddance K). Hahaha!! 13 is Pittura Infamante, which is mostly reviled, and most of the other ones are K heavy and stupid with her presence. Though I think this is normal practise - they show the later episodes, so I would expect 14 and 15 to be unavailable soon. The channel that I get SH on, did show reruns of the Joe Corbin episode and the Pied Piper one a couple weeks ago. But I'll just pretend this is shade at the crappy season and pretend this was a deliberate choice! *grin* Link to comment
Criminey April 25, 2015 Share April 25, 2015 But I'll just pretend this is shade at the crappy season and pretend this was a deliberate choice! *grin*I was leaning that way Link to comment
jhlipton April 26, 2015 Share April 26, 2015 Hulu-Plus has all 31 (13 Season 1, 18 Season 2) episodes available. "Shade" does not extend to Hulu! Link to comment
HalcyonDays May 12, 2015 Share May 12, 2015 Brought over from the media thread.... Fox Aims for Lighthearted Shows with Wide Appeal This is pretty much what I wrote in Media, but the SH relevant parts I'll paste here: Gotham is still a very narrowly focused hour (its core audience is young dudes and not much else) Well now, this move to Thurs already makes a bit more sense already. SH audience is a mix, but probably skews much more toward woman (though I watch Gotham). If Gotham is mostly young guys, then that's not the lead-in SH needs. Fox should also be able to do a bit better on Thursdays, though not that much better. The network opted to keep Bones at 8 p.m., which means settling for so-so demographic numbers — but a decent-size overall audience. By pairing the long-running crime-caper show with Sleepy Hollow at 9, Fox is hoping to re-create the chemistry the two shows had when they were partnered up in fall 2013. The difference now is that both shows are older, and Sleepy will have to face off against both Scandal and The Blacklist. It’s a tall order, but going up against The Voice and Dancing With the Stars was probably even more difficult. Fox owns Sleepy Hollow, which means the network has lots of incentive to keep it on the air for at least four seasons. Assuming producers can get the show back on track creatively, Thursdays could provide Sleepy with a peaceful spot to live out the rest of its existence. Funny - I don't even remember it paired with Bones - never watched the show. But I did mention in the Media thread that the Voice and DWTS (Bachelor and Scorpion also) have a huge audience. The competition on Thursday garners less, so that means there are more people who aren't watching something that now may watch SH. Basically, the people who could have watched SH live, watched Scorpion, DWTS, The Voice instead. Now some of those people can watch SH live now. The fact that FOX owns the show, and the 18 episode order again now makes sense. We all thought 13 episodes, but if they only have to get two more seasons out to syndicate, then there is incentive for the show. However, The Mindy Project also was there - it just needed one more season to syndicate, and FOX pulled the plug anyway. Honestly though - season 3 is the test. If it does well/improves, it gets season 4. If it can't recover, obviously it's done. blixie said in the Media Thread: I'm trying to be positive about this, but yeah I'm worried we're forcing people who want to support both Kerry Washington/Scandal AND Nikki Beharie/SH to choose, and I'm guessing SH will lose a healthy chunk of at least their black female audience in terms of live watch. I agree/disagree. I think FOX is banking on an audience split/shift. Basically some of the black female audience will stick with live-viewing Scandal, but some will shift to live-viewing Sleepy Hollow. I mean, we all saw that awesome campaign that some amazing fans pulled off to get it renewed. The campaigners were a mixed bag in terms of race, but there are a lot of WOC who are advocating for this show and - who like me - for some reason have found themselves just devoted and in love with this crazy-ass show (for no good reason). So like I said, I think FOX is thinking they can "split the difference" or at least balance. Some viewers who used to live watch Scandal will now live watch SH and tape Scandal. Some who lived watched SH will tape it now and live watch Scandal. It's all which show you love more. Regardless, FOX expects some viewer shifting and are going to be find with it, as long as the numbers balance in the end and are what they want. 1 Link to comment
DearEvette May 12, 2015 Share May 12, 2015 (edited) I'm trying to be positive about this, but yeah I'm worried we're forcing people who want to support both Kerry Washington/Scandal AND Nikki Beharie/SH to choose, and I'm guessing SH will lose a healthy chunk of at least their black female audience in terms of live watch (and thus a huge piece of keeping the show buzzy). There are precious few shows in all of network television with black female leads and yet Fox felt compelled to pit them against one another? IDK, I won't say that doesn't bother me. I certainly hope that I'm wrong and if comes down to a choice SH will get the live watching/tweeting to keep it's profile high, and it's ratings solid, and I do agree it's sign of faith in it's popularity, I guess but I can also see it's a huge gamble that could kill it off. Like if they really are angling to eat into Scandal's (and ABC/Shonda's Thrusday block) audience why not stick their ratings juggernaut Empire against it? I want to be optimistic, but I can only get as optimistic as a Radiohead song. I know that a lot of viewers, esp. Nikki Beharie fans, are coming to it from that perspective, but I don't think a network person necesasrily thinks that way. I think they see it as counter-programming. Scandal is a soap opera with a primarily female fan-base. Sleepy Hollow is a genre show with, yeah, more female that male fans (I suspect) but probabnly with a higher percentage of male fans than Scandal has. They shed a lot of male fans in S2 because of the CFD, but I am wondering if they are planning to try to woo some of them back? One of the by-products of having more and more diverse programming is that inevitably some of those programs are going to go against each other. People were upset that Empire was opposite Black-ish, but Black-ish is doing well for itself and holding up really good in a time slot that has killed many other comedies. Right now Fox is actually giving us a black female lead on Monday, a black female lead on Wednesday and now a black female lead on Thursday. I would have loved for SH to remain on Monday and paired with with Minority report. And have Gotham/Lucifer on Thursday and kept Bones on Friday (where it was actually doing quite well). But I can see the logic in their programming decision. And I agree, a move to Thursday is a huge vote of confidence in the show. Fox's real problem is that they have 5 fewer hours a week to work with than the other nets. I guess there are affiliate reasons why they can't expand into the 10 o'clock hour but it makes scheduling a real hassle. Edited May 12, 2015 by DearEvette 1 Link to comment
blixie May 12, 2015 Share May 12, 2015 Some viewers who used to live watch Scandal will now live watch SH and tape Scandal. Right, but why even force any part of your core cult audience to make that kind of choice? S1 was lightening in a bottle and I thought the show's success (like Empire) was incredibly diverse and it's audience reflected that, and surprisingly I think it even had attracted a largely "general" audience, SH fandom certainly had a lot of ComiCon/genre loving nerds, but it also had the kind of people who watched Bones, people they subsequently lost during the horrible train wreck of S2. This seems like a two in the bush is better than one in the hand strategy (lose some of your core, and gain back more of your crossover) and I think it's risky, that's all, and I'll continue to fret, because I refuse to get my heart broken! Link to comment
jhlipton May 12, 2015 Share May 12, 2015 blixie said: we're forcing people who want to support both Kerry Washington/Scandal AND Nikki Beharie/SH to choose Some viewers who used to live watch Scandal will now live watch SH and tape Scandal. Some who lived watched SH will tape it now and live watch Scandal. It's all which show you love more. Isn't that supporting blixie's statement? You can't live-watch both so you have to chose.BTW, with all the networks crowing about "diversity", did anyone notice a new show that absolutely cannot have any PoC on it: The Astronaut's Wives Club? Link to comment
HalcyonDays May 12, 2015 Share May 12, 2015 blixie said: Isn't that supporting blixie's statement? You can't live-watch both so you have to chose. BTW, with all the networks crowing about "diversity", did anyone notice a new show that absolutely cannot have any PoC on it: The Astronaut's Wives Club? In a group of people who already watch Scandal and watch SH, 100% of that audience is not going to live-watch Scandal and tape SH. Some will choose SH, some will choose Scandal, and DVR the other show. So the ratings will slightly shift up or down for each show (depending on how people choose), but for the most part, it will not have a major impact. blixie was saying she was worried about it, because it has the potential to hurt SH, and take away a lot of viewers (if I understood correctly). I personally think the impact will be negligible. That's what I was trying to get across. Hope that makes sense. Link to comment
Moonsky May 12, 2015 Share May 12, 2015 Funny - I don't even remember it paired with Bones - never watched the show. But I did mention in the Media thread that the Voice and DWTS (Bachelor and Scorpion also) have a huge audience. The competition on Thursday garners less, so that means there are more people who aren't watching something that now may watch SH. Basically, the people who could have watched SH live, watched Scorpion, DWTS, The Voice instead. Now some of those people can watch SH live now. Yes, Bones was in the 8PM timeslot on Monday nights during SH’s first season. FOX used it as a lead in to help launch SH since it was still one of their most popular long running shows much like what FOX did by using American Idol another long running popular show to launch Empire a soapy drama with a music theme. In both cases though & especially with Empire both shows got huge followings pretty quickly. Empires ratings even outperformed AI’s ratings significantly. That was a big reason why FOX decided the following season to move BONES to a new night after being in that timeslot for years & launch GOTHAM in its place. FOX thought that with the success of SH & with GOTHAM also falling into the sci-fi/fantasy genre the shows would work well together. I remember some media & fans thinking that it would have been better ratings wise for SH to air first because of some of the competition in the 9PM hour & let GOTHAM follow it. Some thought that one of the reasons FOX kept SH in that timeslot was because of the content of the show but GOTHAM ended up beginning more gritty then SH's season two so that didn't really make a difference anyway. The pairing up of SH & GOTHAM didn’t really work out but there were many factors involved like lack of promotion on FOX’s part for SH even after a hit first season compared to how much more they promoted GOTHAM, strong competition from other network & cable shows (including Monday Night Football), storyline issues, etc. 1 Link to comment
jhlipton May 13, 2015 Share May 13, 2015 In a group of people who already watch Scandal and watch SH, 100% of that audience is not going to live-watch Scandal and tape SH. Some will choose SH, some will choose Scandal, and DVR the other show. So the ratings will slightly shift up or down for each show (depending on how people choose), but for the most part, it will not have a major impact. Among those who watch both, the "live-watch" ratings for both will go down. Let's say that 10,000 people watch both, and these people are evenly split between which show they like more. So 5,000 people will watch Scandal and 5,000 people will watch SH. Both will get half of what they used to get. Now it could easily be that 100,000 watch Scandal but not SH and 100,000 watch SH but not Scandal. In which case, the overall ratings won't be hurt. That's what we have to hope for. Link to comment
AmandaPanda May 13, 2015 Share May 13, 2015 Fox's real problem is that they have 5 fewer hours a week to work with than the other nets. I guess there are affiliate reasons why they can't expand into the 10 o'clock hour but it makes scheduling a real hassle. It definitely does. Fox has some shows that I think would work much better in the 10:00 hour because they could go so much grittier. However, Fox executives have been asked for years why they don't expand and they've pretty much all said that they don't want to expand for monetary reasons. The fact that FOX owns the show, and the 18 episode order again now makes sense. We all thought 13 episodes, but if they only have to get two more seasons out to syndicate, then there is incentive for the show. However, The Mindy Project also was there - it just needed one more season to syndicate, and FOX pulled the plug anyway. Honestly though - season 3 is the test. If it does well/improves, it gets season 4. If it can't recover, obviously it's done. Since Fox does own the show, we're just about 100% guaranteed to get season 4. Even if it sustains the same ratings it did on Monday night, the financial benefits of syndication will outweigh anything else. Mindy wasn't owned by Fox and its ratings were atrocious. Even though Fox could have made a smaller amount of money on syndication there, it was going to be more expensive to help produce and promote Mindy. Since Fox won't have to split the syndication money very much for SH, they'll keep going with it. Link to comment
HalcyonDays May 13, 2015 Share May 13, 2015 Among those who watch both, the "live-watch" ratings for both will go down. Let's say that 10,000 people watch both, and these people are evenly split between which show they like more. So 5,000 people will watch Scandal and 5,000 people will watch SH. Both will get half of what they used to get. Now it could easily be that 100,000 watch Scandal but not SH and 100,000 watch SH but not Scandal. In which case, the overall ratings won't be hurt. That's what we have to hope for. True, but I am also banking on the fact that some of those Monday viewers, who choose The Voice or Bachelor or Scorpion over SH (subsequently DVRing SH), will show up to live watch on Thursday and hopefully choose SH. Some may choose Scandal instead, but there is the potential for an increase. But there could be a small drop too. We'll see. It will depend on how the show does too - if SH improves (it can only improve, to be honest, after season 2) and gets some good buzz, and Scandal continues to not do so good (apparently people have commented it's declining in storyline, etc), then there is a chance for SH to grab some more Scandal viewers. I'm not worried (too much). Just give me a good season and keep it on the air. Since Fox does own the show, we're just about 100% guaranteed to get season 4. Even if it sustains the same ratings it did on Monday night, the financial benefits of syndication will outweigh anything else. Mindy wasn't owned by Fox and its ratings were atrocious. Even though Fox could have made a smaller amount of money on syndication there, it was going to be more expensive to help produce and promote Mindy. Since Fox won't have to split the syndication money very much for SH, they'll keep going with it. Don't tease me, AmandaPanda! *grin* about season 4. I really hope so, TBH. I didn't know that The Mindy Project wasn't owned by FOX. Just, with all of the renewal talk, people kept saying that even though ratings weren't that good, it would get renewed because it was one season away from syndication, so I just assumed it was owned by FOX. I would suspect though that production for SH is probably more expensive than TMP though, which is a factor. One thing about FOX though - they do not promote SH that much. It sucks. It's like their marketing department has been allocated $100 bucks and that's it. And with the success of Empire, they will be channeling as many funds as possible in that direction, so promotion may be less, if that's even possible. Ah well. We'll have to see. At this point though - just give me a good season 3. That's all I ask. 1 Link to comment
AmandaPanda May 13, 2015 Share May 13, 2015 With the move to Thursday, though, I think we're going to see a lot more promotion. Since that's the night where they can charge the most for ad space, they'll have to show the advertisers that they're actually trying to promote the show. 1 Link to comment
HalcyonDays May 13, 2015 Share May 13, 2015 With the move to Thursday, though, I think we're going to see a lot more promotion. Since that's the night where they can charge the most for ad space, they'll have to show the advertisers that they're actually trying to promote the show. Awesome and I hope so. You know what's weird - Monday seemed to me recently to be the big TV day - only because Football and so many of the shows I watched all were shoved onto Monday's viewing schedule. For the last two years, Sunday and Monday were my TV days - the rest of the week was nothing worthwhile to live watch. But if Thursday is supposed to be the big TV day, then that bodes well for SH. I hope FOX makes some attempt to promote. Getting these guys on talk shows would help. Mison was on Letterman a few months ago, but both of them need to go on Fallon, Kimmel, Corden and Meyers. And I would kill to see Mison on Jon Stewart, only because both are intelligent political people and they can talk UK politics. But I know he's not high profile enough. Too bad. Link to comment
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