S01.E06: Five-O

[WicketyWack]

Re Mike and the booze: I think he probably was a drunken mess for maybe a month or so, seeing his son's killers in the bar night after night, and then he started to formulate the plan. Having a revenge plan in place motivated him to clean up so he could pull it off, but still play the drunk as his cover. That's my take on it, anyway.

 

Mike's entire monologue at the end just gutted me. A close second: Jimmy's face when he asked Mike, "How did you know I would spill that coffee?" and Mike just laughed. Everyone expects Jimmy to be shady and he hates it, but ultimately goes along because that's what people want him to do — and let's face it, he's good at it. I'm starting to think Saul Goodman is a product of everyone's expectations of Jimmy, more so than Jimmy himself.

 

Kaylee's age discrepancy also bothers the hell out of me. The kid should have been preschool age during this episode and she looked 8 or 9. 

[WicketyWack]

And here's a question that was bugging me, for my law enforcement friends of the forum: I know cops can drink off-duty after their shift, but is it kosher for them to do so while still in uniform, with badge & gun still on? If I saw a couple of uniformed police officers drinking in a bar, I'd be raising eyebrows.

[teddysmom]

And here's a question that was bugging me, for my law enforcement friends of the forum: I know cops can drink off-duty after their shift, but is it kosher for them to do so while still in uniform, with badge & gun still on? If I saw a couple of uniformed police officers drinking in a bar, I'd be raising eyebrows.

 

I'm pretty sure it's not allowed, but these two just had another cop murdered, so drinking on the job isn't something they're gonna worry about. 

[CarpeDiem54]

I just wanted to say how gorgeous the ABQ train station is. As cool as it is, it's surpassed by the ABQ airport -- if it's still the same as it was back in the 80s. I had a 3 hour layover, which wasn't enough time to really do anything, so I just strolled around the terminal. I'm guessing it was a WPA building --? One of the few airports (Hartford, CN was another) where I actually walked up an outside stairway to get to the plane -- instead of using a jetway.

ABQ has a brand new airport. I flew in and out in about 2006.

[attica]

A ten-minute monologue by a supporting character in the 6th episode of a new show. That's some balls, right there.

 

Can I give a little love to Jimmy's umbrage at being compared to Matlock, a character whose wardrobe he purposefully copied? "I'm a young Paul Newman dressed like Matlock!" Hee, no, not even a little. But go on with your bad self, there, son.

 

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but it still surprises me when Jimmy/Saul shows that he really is a competent, even good, lawyer. He handled the interrogation deftly and correctly. Despite the room being in near darkness! :)

[Boilergal]

I thought Kaylee was young, like 4. This girl looked 7 plus the 5 years would make her 12 in BB.

This is the ONLY thing that bugged me about the episode - I sat there trying to figure out the time line based on the Kaylee - because she looked to be the same age as the Kaylee that he took to the park that liked to swing.  

 

Other than that the rest of the episode was great!!  

 

I don't think Jaul had any intention of participating with the coffee shenanigans but after he heard the story of Matty he changed his mind.  I liked that he didn't know quite what to say to Mike, but he felt like he needed to offer some kind of condolence.

[PrincessSteel]

I can't live with waiting a week between episodes. This show just officially became binge-worthy.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Mike had nothing to lose with that, because an experienced cop with a heavy revenge motivation would know to plant an untraceable gun.  Then if he didn't end up needing it, it would be on the two who were responsible for the car to explain it.

Really, the only way the gun would have been left there would be if there was some sort of emergency that called the partners away. Mike could equally have retrieved it if they had driven him home. If they had decided to let Mike walk, Mike could have staged a scene to change their minds before they were gone.

[dbro]

Mike had nothing to lose with that, because an experienced cop with a heavy revenge motivation would know to plant an untraceable gun.  Then if he didn't end up needing it, it would be on the two who were responsible for the car to explain it.

 

And while they're trying to explain the gun they'd both be taking a long suspicious look at each other.

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

 

My guess for why this Kaylee looks so young is because VG is estimating future scenes with her and Mike and they need room-to-grow for the young actress. Either that or her schooling and working hours are less complicated than a smaller, younger child.

Just as long as they aren't putting on those ridiculous pink caps on her that the various Holly babies wore during BB. (yes, I know there were several babies playing the part and they were hiding the differences but I've never seen a two year old wear one of them)

[ElsieH]

I was hoping they would say in the podcast, and if they did, I  missed it. But was there anything to indicate how much time passed between Mike arriving in ABQ with the gunshot wound and the Philly police showing up? The daughter in law said she found the money when unpacking. But the notebook said she moved there three months before Mike. So when did she find it and why did she wait so long to call them? The first conversation she and Mike had about it was the day he got there. So how long has he been in town when the cops show up and he calls Saul?

[Ronin Jackson]

Officially, Kaylee was 10 in Breaking Bad. All the scenes which featured her took place in the first year of the show, so the current timeline is 6-7 years before. The girl definitely looked older than four... I do wonder if as someone suggested, there are more scenes with the character planned so they cast an older girl who was a better actress than anyone they can find at ages 3-4?

 

I've enjoyed the show so far but I think it's going to get better as Jimmy gets sucked deeper into the world of Mike and Nacho (who has been missing for a couple of episodes). All the time we've spent with Jimmy will pay off when that happens. This episode was great, up there with some of the best of Breaking Bad (not sure it's on the level of the best of the best of that show, but that's setting the bar awfully high).

[tennisgurl]

I finally caught up on this one and...damn. That was just an amazing hour of TV. Like others have said, its amazingly ballsy to focus in on the back-story of a supporting character so quickly into the run, which strikes me as the writers having a a huge amount if confidence in their product, something they have very much earned. 

 

Not much Jimmy/Saul this week, but he made the most with what he had. Its good to see him being competent. And don't listen to the haters, Jimmy. Your suit looks great.

 

We haven't seen much of her, but I really like Mikes daughter in law. I thought the actress did a great job reacting to Mikes monologue. 

 

This show has gone from Very Good to Must See in record time. 

 

This one is definitely going to be an Emmy Reel episode.

 

 

I wonder if they put that line in before or after they hired Octavia of the Julii from Rome to play Stacey.

 Oh my God, thank you! It was driving me crazy, trying to figure out how I knew that actress! I loved her in Rome, so of course I would like her here too. 

Edited March 11, 2015 by tennisgurl

[Mindymoo]

I was hoping they would say in the podcast, and if they did, I  missed it. But was there anything to indicate how much time passed between Mike arriving in ABQ with the gunshot wound and the Philly police showing up? The daughter in law said she found the money when unpacking. But the notebook said she moved there three months before Mike. So when did she find it and why did she wait so long to call them? The first conversation she and Mike had about it was the day he got there. So how long has he been in town when the cops show up and he calls Saul?

I'm not sure how long it was since Mike moved there, but Stacey said she called the police after hearing about Fensky and Hoffman getting killed. That's also when she told Mike about the money, but she was sitting on that information until those two got killed as well. She thought that maybe whatever her husband was mixed up in, they were also mixed up in and it got all three of them killed.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Mindy McIndy

[Dev F]

I was hoping they would say in the podcast, and if they did, I  missed it. But was there anything to indicate how much time passed between Mike arriving in ABQ with the gunshot wound and the Philly police showing up? The daughter in law said she found the money when unpacking. But the notebook said she moved there three months before Mike. So when did she find it and why did she wait so long to call them? The first conversation she and Mike had about it was the day he got there. So how long has he been in town when the cops show up and he calls Saul?

 

The Philly cops tell Jimmy that Matty was killed "about nine months ago" and that Hoffman and Fensky were killed "three months ago." Mike moved to Albuquerque the very next day, so he's been in town for three months.

 

It seems like Stacey found the money prior to Mike moving to town, since she said that she found it while she was unpacking and couldn't tell Mike about it because "You wouldn't talk to me. Every night you were drinking yourself unconscious." That seems to describe him before he avenges Matty but not after. I suppose the Philly PD spent a lot of time trying to build a case against Mike but came up empty, then decided to take a chance on confronting him in the dim hope that something would shake loose.

 

Officially, Kaylee was 10 in Breaking Bad. All the scenes which featured her took place in the first year of the show, so the current timeline is 6-7 years before. The girl definitely looked older than four... I do wonder if as someone suggested, there are more scenes with the character planned so they cast an older girl who was a better actress than anyone they can find at ages 3-4?

 

I think part of the issue is that the Breaking Bad Kaylee played as a fairly young ten-year-old -- probably because she was originally intended to be younger than that but they had to retcon her age as the actor got a couple years older but only a few months passed on the show. The age difference would be more pronounced if the original Kaylee had been more tween than guileless little girl who likes playing on the swings with her grandpa; the latter doesn't leave much room to age down, personality-wise.

[Hanahope]

Yeah, I'm curious as to what the DIL could have told the Philly cops months after the fact that brought them all the way out to ABQ to question Mike.  Obviously, Mike's been out there a while, taking parking lot stickers from Jimmy.  I don't think the DIL told the cops about the money, but she obviously said something, what?  Did she finally think Mike knew something because she saw him sitting outside the house?  That he was feeling guilty over something?  And she called the cops to voice suspicions that Mike knew more than he was saying? And they flew out because of the DIL's suspicions?

 

I would have thought the DIL would have learned about Fensky and Hoffman's death near the time they died.  Certainly while investigating that death the cops would have called her up to tell her, hey, your dead husband's former partner and witness to his death died/was shot.  So it makes no sense that out of the blue she called up the Philly cops to say something that dragged them all the way cross country.

 

 

It seems like Stacey found the money prior to Mike moving to town, since she said that she found it while she was unpacking and couldn't tell Mike about it because "You wouldn't talk to me. Every night you were drinking yourself unconscious." That seems to describe him before he avenges Matty but not after. I suppose the Philly PD spent a lot of time trying to build a case against Mike but came up empty, then decided to take a chance on confronting him in the dim hope that something would shake loose.

 

I think Mike was drinking immediately after Mattie's death and didn't want to talk about the death with Stacie.  This was before they all moved to ABQ.  I'm guessing that Mike initially drank so much because he was feeling guilt over Mattie's death and his own part in creating the situation that lead to it.  Then when DIL and Kaylee moved away, Mike sobered up to do something, take his revenge and move to be with Kaylee.

 

It is unclear when the DIL found the money.  I suppose its possible that she didn't immediately unpack everything, even though its now 6 months after her move.  So maybe after seeing Mike outside her house, she finished the unpacking and found the money and put 2 and 2 together, Mattie maybe being dirty and the deaths of his partner and sarge?  That prompted her call to the cops?

Edited March 11, 2015 by Hanahope

[SunnyBeBe]

I got the impression that Mike was faking that he was drinking himself to death. That would give him a good reason to not deal with the DIL and a excuse to observe and snoop without arousing suspicion.  And a good way to pull the killers in, unaware that he had them in his cross hairs.  Nonetheless, I really am loving this show.

 

Would Mike's DIL really be so clueless?  Scary.

[editorgrrl]

I was hoping they would say in the podcast, and if they did, I  missed it. But was there anything to indicate how much time passed between Mike arriving in ABQ with the gunshot wound and the Philly police showing up?

 

Kaylee was ten on Breaking Bad, meaning she was born c. 1999. Mike sat outside Stacey's house in early 2002, so the day he arrived in Albuquerque (the day he pushed Kaylee on the swing, then Stacey gave him the cold shoulder) couldn't have been much more than a year or so earlier.

 

BB-playground-Kaylee then strikes me as a small-Kaylee, if she's meant to be 10.  Both girls look 7-8 to me.  My guess for why this Kaylee looks so young is because VG is estimating future scenes with her and Mike and they need room-to-grow for the young actress.

 

Vince Gilligan said on the "Better Call Saul" Insider podcast for this episode that Faith Healey, who plays Kaylee Ehrmentraut on this show, is four years old. My speculation is similar to @queenanne's—Kaylee will appear in future episodes set in 2002, so they didn't show her very clearly in this episode's flashback scene.

 

It's easy to make Bob Odenkirk look younger with a hairpiece—it's much harder to make a four-year-old look two or three.

[Dev F]

It is unclear when the DIL found the money.  I suppose its possible that she didn't immediately unpack everything, even though its now 6 months after her move.  So maybe after seeing Mike outside her house, she finished the unpacking and found the money and put 2 and 2 together, Mattie maybe being dirty and the deaths of his partner and sarge?  That prompted her call to the cops?

 

But she told Mike that she couldn't come to him about the money because he was drinking himself into a stupor and he didn't want to talk to her anyway. That couldn't have been during the present-day time frame, since by that point he was no longer drinking and was so eager for contact with his family that he was idling outside their house.

[iMonrey]

 

 

• Time passes (how much?), and Mike sits in his car watching Stacy's house because she has shut him out of her life

• Cops take Mike to police station and interrogate him; Mike gets cop's notebook and sees that Stacy had called them

• Mike goes to Stacy, mad that she had called the cops; he tells her the truth

Does that sound right?

 

That's correct from what I can gather. However, the problem here which made it confusing to me, is that when Mike storms over to Stacey's house and starts yelling at her about calling the cops, the way she treats him, and her attitude towards him, is not the behavior of someone who has shut him out for however many months that made him sit in his car and watch her house. The house-watching scene definitely suggested an estrangement between the two characters. The scene where he confronts her about calling the cops suggests a daughter in law who is still very much a part of his life. She is apologetic, reassuring, even kind. There's nothing in that scene to suggest she was so mad at him she cut him out of her life. If anything it suggests a daughter in law who still cares for him very much and has shown concern for his well being. 

 

 

Kaylee was ten on Breaking Bad, meaning she was born c. 1999. Mike sat outside Stacey's house in early 2002,

 

The first time we saw Kaylee was in Season 5a. I'm not sure how much time is supposed to have passed between the debut of BrBa in 2009 and the events of Season 5a, but if she's 10 when we first see her, she was born some time before 1999. I think they fudged this a little - she should have been younger in this episode, or older in BrBa. 

[Umbelina]

Either story works for me about Mike's drinking, we may learn more, or we may not, because I'm not really sure it's that important.  My guess is that he did drink initially, grief and guilt, but he pretty quickly wised up and started formulating his plan and decided to use the "drunk" issues as part of that.  That could have happened very quickly really, one drunken night or weekend, and then?  Justice, or revenge plan begins, depending on how you look at it.

 

A little personal story.  I know a family that lost a brother, late teens brother, to a bunch of scum that killed him simply to gain admission into a gang.  Without going into too much of it, the brother was run over by a car several times, left to die in the road, and it took hours for him to die.  It was a very painful death.  The siblings tried to get law enforcement to step in, but because the murderers were all minors, they let them all off.  One sibling was able to get a confession of the whole crime from two of the youngest, again, the DA wouldn't act.  The siblings made a pact, "nothing happens for 3 months."  Within a year, all of the murderers were dead.  One car went off a mountain road, one died in a "drug related" murder, etc.  I never asked.  I knew.  Or I think I know.

 

I think Mike would know to wait.  I think Mike used whatever drinking issue he had, brief or not, to help with an alibi.  I think he DID investigate, to make absolutely sure those two particular cops, of all the dirty cops he worked with, were the ones to kill his son.  Even then though, he may have been 98% sure, but not totally.  (that last line from the most recent podcast.)  He needed that last 2%, maybe not so much because he had a sense of duty about not killing innocent (relatively) cops, but more because he wanted to make sure that he killed the ones who actually killed his son, and didn't accidentally let off the real murderers. 

 

So, that leads us to the set up.  The 100% sure he needed.  He uses the whole drunk thing, and plants the gun, tells them he knows "drunkenly" and then wanders down a pretty deserted street.  IF they pick him up, and "make him eat a bullet" ("That's what I'd do.") then all doubt is removed, he has the right murderers.  They have an empty gun, the one they NEED to kill him, since they think it's his, and it goes with the whole grief/suicide/drunk alibi.  So, the moment they discuss killing Mike, it's over, and he takes them out.  I doubt he needed the excuse that they were about to kill him, but there is that too.

 

All in all, I was seriously impressed with this one.  It felt real, and raw, and Banks knocked it out of the park, as did Odenkirk in his small, but perfect scenes.

[editorgrrl]

The first time we saw Kaylee was in Season 5a. I'm not sure how much time is supposed to have passed between the debut of BrBa in 2009 and the events of Season 5a, but if she's 10 when we first see her, she was born some time before 1999. I think they fudged this a little - she should have been younger in this episode, or older in BrBa. 

 

Kaylee's first appearance was in season 3, episode 2, "Caballo Sin Nombre." According to the Breaking Bad timeline, it was set February 20 through March 1, 2010. Her final appearance was in season 5, episode 7, "Say My Name," which was set September 24 through October 2, 2010. 

 

If Kaylee was ten years old, she was born c. 2000. (But I can't find any confirmation about her age, nor do I know the age of the actress, Kaija Roze Bales.) As I said above, according to the Insider podcast the actress who plays Kaylee on Better Call Saul, Faith Healey, is four years old.

 

To be honest, I wouldn't begrudge TPTB playing a little fast & loose with Kaylee's age to fit the story they want to tell. Edited to add that I also don't mind the fact that they recast Stacey. In Breaking Bad, she was really just an extra. 

Edited March 11, 2015 by editorgrrl

[molly aster]

I was hoping they would say in the podcast, and if they did, I  missed it. But was there anything to indicate how much time passed between Mike arriving in ABQ with the gunshot wound and the Philly police showing up?

 

Three months.  The Philly police tell Jimmy that Matt was killed nine months ago and the other two cops were killed six months after that, which means their interrogation of Mike is happening three months after he arrived in ABQ.

[shapeshifter]

But she told Mike that she couldn't come to him about the money because he was drinking himself into a stupor and he didn't want to talk to her anyway....

 

Am I the only one who interpreted the first conversation between Mike and DIL to mean that what she really had been thinking after finding the money was that possibly Mike had killed Matty because Matty was a dirty cop?

[Quilt Fairy]

I have a theory that the reason Mike took a train rather than a plane from Philly to ABQ is that 1) it makes him harder to trace as well as incommunicado for a couple of days and 2) they don't do full security scans so he could carry a gun with him. 'Cause you know he's packin'.

[SignGuy]

Also, taking the train fits the modern western theme nicely.

[TVFan17]

Stacey (Mike's daughter-in-law) is played by Irish actress Kerry Condon, who was Clara on The Walking Dead—the crazy, mouldy-looking woman Rick encountered outside the prison in season 4, who wanted to feed Rick to the zombified head of her husband Eddie.

 

Ah yes, Crazy Clara, the forest chick who looked like the girl who crawled out of the well in The Ring!  I hated her acting on TWD, and I didn't think her acting was good on BCS.  It was a great episode, which I already expanded on in this thread, but her acting didn't feel real.  It felt too much like acting.

[ShadowFacts]

 I'm kind of squicked out picturing him stitching himself up. 

[Consternation]

I have a theory that the reason Mike took a train rather than a plane from Philly to ABQ is that 1) it makes him harder to trace as well as incommunicado for a couple of days and 2) they don't do full security scans so he could carry a gun with him. 'Cause you know he's packin'.

In addition, I had also thought there was some chance that TSA might discover an open gunshot wound.  He really can't get caught with a fresh gunshot wound the day after the two cops get wacked.

[thuganomics85]

Saw this Monday but I only just got access to the internet again.  Damn, I really need to learn to quit questioning Vince Gilligan.  I complain about the lack of Mike, and what to do he and Peter Gould do?  Have the sixth episode pretty much have him being the lead. Really, if anyone went into this not knowing anything, it would really have came off like The Mike Show, featuring Jimmy/Saul.  I wonder what that name would have been ("No Half Measures", perhaps?)

 

Anyway, as much as I'm loving Jimmy as the lead, this was simply a fantastic diversion.  Jonathan Banks was just amazing in this episode.  I really appreciated how Breaking Bad showed that he can break past being merely menacing or crusty, and really is a hell of an actor.  That entire scene with Stacy at the end was just memorizing.  Especially the "I made him like me!" line.  Just chills.  I know this show is young and still has room to grow, but I really hope Banks gets some Emmy consideration for this.

 

I figured that him breaking into the car was to plant a weapon to take out Mattie's killers, but I still loved watching how the whole thing came together, and how Mike played up the drinking.  The cops faces when they realized what was getting ready to happen was priceless.  Now, that's the stone-cold Mike I remember.  And, yeah, I totally recognized one of the cops as Tweener from Prison Break. 

 

Even though he was mainly supporting, I was glad Jimmy was still around to provide much needed funny moments.  Loved how he interacting with Mike and the two detectives, and his feign outrage over their Matlock cracks.  Bob Odenkirk really is shining as the lead.

 

Continuing to enjoy Kerry Condon as Stacey.  It's not the flashiest role, but she is making me a little interested in her and I like how she plays off of Banks. I can feel the history between the two characters.

 

So, yeah, excellent episode.  I'm not worried about this taking anything away from Jimmy, because I do think Mike using him to take that notepad is going to bring him into the forefront, and he's going to fight to bail both his and Mike's ass out of it.  I just can't wait to see more Jimmy/Mike.

Edited March 12, 2015 by thuganomics85

[SlackerInc]

My unpopular opinion is that Mike is not likeable, he is only ominous to me, the only thing he cares about is Kaylee and that makes him dangerous.  Jimmy still retains likeability for me, his humanity is in full view, he wants to get the little old lady's figurine collection properly accounted for in her will. 

 

This is such a great point.  I think I like Mike more than you do, but less than most others.  As noted previously, I always saw him as the guy who was going to cold-bloodedly murder Walt and Jesse precisely for their most do-gooderish act in the whole series.

Mike's entire monologue at the end just gutted me. A close second: Jimmy's face when he asked Mike, "How did you know I would spill that coffee?" and Mike just laughed. Everyone expects Jimmy to be shady and he hates it, but ultimately goes along because that's what people want him to do — and let's face it, he's good at it. 

 

I actually think a lot of people (including most of the professional reviewers) are barking up the wrong tree when they interpret that scene as Jimmy expressing some frustration that people always expect him to be corrupt.  With the Kellermans, that was obviously what was going on.  But while the coffee routine was obviously aiding his client in pulling off a petty crime, Mike didn't offer him a bribe to do this.  Jimmy could bill him the same amount for having called him in to the station either way.  Somehow, to me at least, this looks a lot more like an act of kindness that a sign of being "corrupt" per se.

 

We haven't seen much of her, but I really like Mikes daughter in law. I thought the actress did a great job reacting to Mikes monologue.  

 

 

Ah yes, Crazy Clara, the forest chick who looked like the girl who crawled out of the well in The Ring!  I hated her acting on TWD, and I didn't think her acting was good on BCS.  It was a great episode, which I already expanded on in this thread, but her acting didn't feel real.  It felt too much like acting.

 

Funny how strongly opinions differ about Condon.  There are significant numbers of people on various sites praising her, and significant numbers (including me) criticizing her self-consciously "actorly" acting.  I rolled my eyes a bit at the way Vince Gilligan was gushing on this week's podcast about how Kerry Condon is such a fantastic actor, did a brilliant job, blah blah blah.  My initial reaction was that it cheapens the praise he gives others who have acted on his shows (who really were deserving), to know that he apparently just says that about any actor, at least the first time they are mentioned on the podcast.  

 

But considering the number of people online who are praising her acting, unless I'm being fooled by a bunch of sock puppets from Condon's publicist, it may well be that for certain tastes (including Gilligan's), what Condon is doing really does constitute "good acting".  But then I wonder why Gilligan's shows seem to feature so few who act in that mannered way?

[wrestlesflamingos]

Funny how strongly opinions differ about Condon.  There are significant numbers of people on various sites praising her, and significant numbers (including me) criticizing her self-consciously "actorly" acting.  I rolled my eyes a bit at the way Vince Gilligan was gushing on this week's podcast about how Kerry Condon is such a fantastic actor, did a brilliant job, blah blah blah.  My initial reaction was that it cheapens the praise he gives others who have acted on his shows (who really were deserving), to know that he apparently just says that about any actor, at least the first time they are mentioned on the podcast.  

 

 

 

Kerry broke her accent during Mike's monologue. It pulled me out of the scene for a moment. Her body language and face were stiff and overly emotive. Here's my fanwank - VG used Mike's best take, not Stacey's, and he's using praise to smooth over using the less flattering performance. She did excellent work on Rome and she still has time to earn the praise on Better Call Saul. I thought Skylar was an awful actress too until later in BrBa.

[kieyra]

I'm kind of iffy on Kaylee's mother, at times she held her own, but other times I felt like I was watching her acting.  I'm so not used to seeing that on a Vince Gilligan show.

 

 

Way back from page one but: Yes, I had some problems with most of her first big scene, but I was having a very hard time figuring out if it was the acting or the writing to blame. Either way a lot of that dialogue rang very false (the opening scene with her and Mike).

[Quilt Fairy]

Way back from page one but: Yes, I had some problems with most of her first big scene, but I was having a very hard time figuring out if it was the acting or the writing to blame. Either way a lot of that dialogue rang very false (the opening scene with her and Mike).

I'm not a sophisticated enough viewer to normally criticize anyone's acting, but that first scene (describing her overhearing the phone call) was extremely awkward, in dialogue as well as the acting. I expect VG's characters to be a little more glib.

 

When Mike talked about busting a drug dealer who had more money on him than he (the policeman) would make in a lifetime, did anyone else have flashbacks to the first episode of BB when Hank takes Walt on the ride-along and shows him a duffle bag full of money that becomes the impetus for Walt's meth-making scheme?  (I'm normally all for cutting ties between BB and BCS, but that line instantly brought that scene into my mind.)  And while I'm on linkages, like a lot of people I thought of 'Dead Freight' in the opening train sequence, but according to the podcast it's really a homage to Bad Day at Black Rock. Vince Gilligan really is an unabashed movie geek.

[Catherinewriter]

SlackerInc, it wasn't her climbing out of the well that was so terrifying, but climbing out of the TV, at least for me.

 

CarpeDiem, agreed about the train station, and also the train. As it pulled into our view I thought it so lovely and wondered why society was so dumb to get rid (mostly) of trains.

 

Some forensic questions: I was trying to figure out how the guns would be handled in an investigation of the cops' deaths. Mike's gun, the registered one, was taken by the soon to be dead cops and then presumably taken away by Mike after the event went down. The gun in the car was a ghost gun, or whatever you call one that isn't registered, right? So even though the Philly cops know that Mike did the deed, they have no forensic proof, right? 

 

This was definitely an Emmy performance for Mike, but I want Jimmy back real soon, Gilligan.

[editorgrrl]

Some forensic questions: I was trying to figure out how the guns would be handled in an investigation of the cops' deaths. Mike's gun, the registered one, was taken by the soon to be dead cops and then presumably taken away by Mike after the event went down. The gun in the car was a ghost gun, or whatever you call one that isn't registered, right? So even though the Philly cops know that Mike did the deed, they have no forensic proof, right? 

 

I thought they showed Mike reach down & take back the unloaded gun from the dead cop. If the other gun was used in any previous crime, then the slugs in the two cops will match the existing evidence.

 

We never saw what Mike did after he broke into the cop car. I assume he planted his personal gun, and carried any old empty gun for the cops to confiscate.

[Ronin Jackson]

Kaylee's first appearance was in season 3, episode 2, "Caballo Sin Nombre." According to the Breaking Bad timeline, it was set February 20 through March 1, 2010. Her final appearance was in season 5, episode 7, "Say My Name," which was set September 24 through October 2, 2010. 

 

 

I wonder how accurate the timeline is... or at the very least, if it's a result of Gillgan and CO not having the entire timeline sorted out, which is understandable. According to the timeline the show starts in September 2009, but the original air date is January 2008. I believe it was essentially announced that BCS takes place six years prior to BB, and I'm not sure if it's the media doing conjecture based on the series beginning in 2008, but many have placed the date of the current events in BCS at 2002. I guess the only important thing is that it's six years prior, whether that's 2003/2004 or 2002. 

[editorgrrl]

The first episode of Better Call Saul is set May 13, 2002. That's the date on Jimmy's $700 paycheck.

Breaking Bad starts on Walt's 50th birthday. According to the divorce papers shown in season 3, episode 5, "Más," his date of birth is September 7, 1959.

Edited March 13, 2015 by editorgrrl

[Ronin Jackson]

I don't think the writers are adhering to the timeline on the wiki page. The people who made the timeline are basing it, it seems, on Walter White's date of birth. But where does that information come from? It's pretty clear the writers regard BCS as taking place six years prior to the start of BB as indicated by them casting a 4 year old as Kaylee, and that every press release indicates that. So BB must have started in 2008 from the writers perspective. Clearly when they started BB they weren't thinking of it taking place a year and a half into the future. That's been retconned by this date of birth info.

[ShadowFacts]

 

We never saw what Mike did after he broke into the cop car. I assume he planted his personal gun, and carried any old empty gun for the cops to confiscate.

   

 

I think planting his own registered gun would be risky in case his plan didn't unfold.  I think it's likely that both were unregistered/untraceable, or if not, the one that the cop took off him was his but unloaded.  I also think that short of an eyewitness or surveillance footage, they have nothing on Mike but suspicion.  And we know he would be under arrest if they had anything. 

 

ETA:  And we know that the two bad cops wouldn't have taken him anywhere that had cameras nearby, or the possibility of witnesses.

Edited March 13, 2015 by ShadowFacts

[Ronin Jackson]

I've got better things to do at the moment, but I had to crack this mystery of Walter White's DOB that the wikia sleuth's uncovered, and I found this blurb from trivia secton of the page:

 

 

Walter was born in 1959, because Jane Margolis' father mentions she was "twenty seven next month" and that her date of birth was April 1982, meaning that "Pilot" takes place in 2009, "Fifty-One" in 2010, and "Felina" in 2011. However, despite this, Vince Gilligan said in an interview that Better Call Saul takes place "in 2002" and "6 years before Saul meets Walter White", meaning that Pilot takes place in 2008, Fifty-One in 2009 and Felina in 2010, meaning that Walter was born in 1958.

 

How did they extrapolated the date of the pilot from Jane's birth date? If she was born in April 1982, and she was twenty seven next month when she died, she died in March 2009. So they got the date of the "Pilot" in September 2009 from that? Um... yeah, we might not want to put too much stock in that timeline. I'm amazed they put that much effort into reconstructing the timeline if that's really how they extrapolated Walter White's DOB.

[TVFan17]

SlackerInc, on 12 Mar 2015 - 02:29 AM, said:

This is such a great point.  I think I like Mike more than you do, but less than most others.  As noted previously, I always saw him as the guy who was going to cold-bloodedly murder Walt and Jesse precisely for their most do-gooderish act in the whole series.

I actually think a lot of people (including most of the professional reviewers) are barking up the wrong tree when they interpret that scene as Jimmy expressing some frustration that people always expect him to be corrupt.  With the Kellermans, that was obviously what was going on.  But while the coffee routine was obviously aiding his client in pulling off a petty crime, Mike didn't offer him a bribe to do this.  Jimmy could bill him the same amount for having called him in to the station either way.  Somehow, to me at least, this looks a lot more like an act of kindness that a sign of being "corrupt" per se.

 

Funny how strongly opinions differ about Condon.  There are significant numbers of people on various sites praising her, and significant numbers (including me) criticizing her self-consciously "actorly" acting.  I rolled my eyes a bit at the way Vince Gilligan was gushing on this week's podcast about how Kerry Condon is such a fantastic actor, did a brilliant job, blah blah blah.  My initial reaction was that it cheapens the praise he gives others who have acted on his shows (who really were deserving), to know that he apparently just says that about any actor, at least the first time they are mentioned on the podcast. 

But considering the number of people online who are praising her acting, unless I'm being fooled by a bunch of sock puppets from Condon's publicist, it may well be that for certain tastes (including Gilligan's), what Condon is doing really does constitute "good acting".  But then I wonder why Gilligan's shows seem to feature so few who act in that mannered way?

 

 

 

 

I think Kerry's acting was the problem, and not really the writing.  It's all in the interpretation, and a really great actor can take something and interpret it effectively.  But it's true -- her style of acting is a style that may work for some types of roles and writing but not for other types.

 

What it felt like to me, as I watched her scenes with Mike (and Jonathan's acting is so natural that it just highlighted how her acting seemed 'off'), was that she was not truly inhabiting the role.  I actually wondered for a moment if Kerry was the original actress selected to play that role, or if she had just been brought in as a last minute replacement.  That would kind of explain the disconnect.  She didn't seem connected to the dialogue she was reciting.  She seemed almost detached from it, as though she was just speaking what she had memorized but was not really present, emotionally.

 

An example of what I took away from Kerry's acting scenes is this: 

 

Have you ever watched American Idol, when a perfectly capable, attractive performer takes the stage, and they sing a song competently, but it just... falls flat (a famous equivalent would be, say, Kylie Minogue)?  It almost comes across as karaoke.   The singer is not doing anything wrong, per se, but the judges will tell them that they are not really thinking about the lyrics they are singing, and they're not really feeling the song. 

 

But then another singer gets onstage and starts singing a song, and that person seems to know how to really interpret a song, exploring all the nuances and notes in a way that the previous singer did not (let's say that the famous equivalent would be Christina Aguilera).  It becomes apparent that the second singer has really 'felt' the music and thought about the words.  The second singer let the song wash over them and kind of take them away, whereas the first person simply delivered a nicely performed song.

 

In my scenario, Kerry was Minogue, when she should have brought her Aguilera A-game to this show.  It didn't diminish my enjoyment of the episode, but she was the weakest part of it.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Sherry67

[TVFan17]

SlackerInc, it wasn't her climbing out of the well that was so terrifying, but climbing out of the TV, at least for me.

 

CarpeDiem, agreed about the train station, and also the train. As it pulled into our view I thought it so lovely and wondered why society was so dumb to get rid (mostly) of trains.

 

Some forensic questions: I was trying to figure out how the guns would be handled in an investigation of the cops' deaths. Mike's gun, the registered one, was taken by the soon to be dead cops and then presumably taken away by Mike after the event went down. The gun in the car was a ghost gun, or whatever you call one that isn't registered, right? So even though the Philly cops know that Mike did the deed, they have no forensic proof, right? 

 

This was definitely an Emmy performance for Mike, but I want Jimmy back real soon, Gilligan.

 

I think I was the one who made the reference to the girl crawling out of the well in The Ring, but yes -- I know what you mean.  Crawling out of the TV was creepy too.  Whatever the case, that was who Crazy Clara on TWD evoked in my mind.

[duVerre]

 

I think Kerry's acting was the problem, and not really the writing.

 

It's the acting for me too. I felt like I was watching a tense actress, not a tense character named Stacey.

Edited March 13, 2015 by duVerre

[Dev F]

How did they extrapolated the date of the pilot from Jane's birth date? If she was born in April 1982, and she was twenty seven next month when she died, she died in March 2009. So they got the date of the "Pilot" in September 2009 from that? Um... yeah, we might not want to put too much stock in that timeline. I'm amazed they put that much effort into reconstructing the timeline if that's really how they extrapolated Walter White's DOB.

 

I'm not sure what's going on with that wonky trivia entry, but as editorgrrl mentions, the basis for most of the timeline seems to be the divorce papers glimpsed briefly on screen in one episode, which give Walt's date of birth as "9/7/59." Obviously, that doesn't jibe with the information about Jane's birthdate; unlike the wiki users, I would consider the latter to be more definitive, considering it's based on script rather than set decoration.

 

Assuming that everything else about the wiki timeline is roughly correct, you'd just have to shift everything back by ten months so that Jane dies in March 2009 instead of January 2010. That would put the beginning of the series in or around November 2008, which is just about six years after the May 2002 start of Better Call Saul.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Dev F

[Conan Troutman]

An argument could be made that the show should have been built around Mike, and that Jimmy should have been more of a background character.  Mike is a much stronger character, and Jonathan Banks does one helluva good job portraying him.

 

I don't think Mike would be able to carry the show. Jonathan Banks surely could, but the character is, well, "a wee bit taciturn" - and while that's perfectly fine for a supporting character, it wouldn't work for the lead. The episode was so strong because we got to see a side of Mike we haven't really seen before, but you can't have a story like that every week. Mike's great as the stoic, sardonic second fiddle, but he needs someone to carry the emotional load as well as plenty of dialogue and Jimmy/Saul, with his extroverted personality, is way better suited for that (and Odenkirk is absolutely capable of it).

 

Going forward, I think Mike will be a bit more involved, now that they've taken the first steps toward the relation they have on BB, and I think as far as screen time goes, this will be an ideal balance.

[Umbelina]

I agree.  Also, Saul gets to meet different clients all the time because of his job, a perfect opportunity to take story anywhere.  Mike?  Yeah, nope.  I love the character, and especially love the actor, but you couldn't do a series about him without some really strong co-stars.  Now, a movie?  You could.

[morgankobi]

 Now, a movie?  You could.

Make this script about 45 minutes longer and it's done!

[tennisgurl]

I always thought Jimmy/Saul felt kind of like a supporting character from a Tarantino movie...

[WicketyWack]

I think planting his own registered gun would be risky in case his plan didn't unfold.  I think it's likely that both were unregistered/untraceable, or if not, the one that the cop took off him was his but unloaded.  I also think that short of an eyewitness or surveillance footage, they have nothing on Mike but suspicion.  And we know he would be under arrest if they had anything. 

 

ETA:  And we know that the two bad cops wouldn't have taken him anywhere that had cameras nearby, or the possibility of witnesses.

I thought without question that both of the guns Mike had on him that night were untraceable ...and  that, actually, Mike probably had racked up a little cache of untraceable firearms over the years. You know, one of those things you let slide, something that doesn't make it back into evidence ...