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S05.E13: Forget

HalcyonDays

By HalcyonDays
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mmecorday
mmecorday

When Carol started threatening Sam, I expected her to say, "Sure, I can make you more cookies, Sam. Lots of cookies. Just look at the flour, Sam. Look at the flour."

tennisgurl
tennisgurl

Also, I have never related to Rosita more than when she walked into the party, looked around, and was just like "well, at least they have beer". 

The Mighty Peanut
The Mighty Peanut

OMFG Eric favorited my tweet!

SoSueMe

SoSueMe

Rick + married woman = major league bad idea.  Especially in that small community. 

 

If Alexandria is as it appears, hard to see how they survived.  They would have been major targets, for all the marauding bands of people out there. 

 

Two things I still don't understand:  1) how the zombies threw the world into anarchy.  They simply move too slowly.  One person can kill them by the droves.  Even if humankind had to go through a bit of a learning curve, we are so much more powerful than they, eradicating them should not have been very hard.  2) related to that, why the humans don't continuously take out more zombies.  We can hunt them down, and so long as we encounter them in reasonable enough numbers (as the survivors usually seem to), should have no trouble thinning their ranks, and mostly removing the threat.  Knowing that the dead turn into zombies, we should be able to handle that, for the most part, as well. 

 

i.e. to make this world more believable, I feel the zombies should be more powerful. 

I guess it is all about that famous "suspension of disbelief" thing. 

 

I hear you on that though. I thought the remake of "Dawn of the Dead" did a good job with fast zombies. Also, after 2 or 3 years the walkers would be so decomposed that they would collapse and go back to dust.

 

But then we wouldn't have a show, would we ?! LOL

  • Love 2
Racj82

Racj82

Seriously what did she think she'd gain by having Sasha come to the party??

She's trying to figure out what is going on with Sasha and get through to her. She can't do that letting her just go off and be away from everyone most of the time. So, by putting her in the party setting, she can study her.and see how she reacts. After that outburst, she at least knows what's going on in her head.

 

I also have to laugh at anyone judging Sasha for her outburst at the party. These people are do damn complacent. It would also drive me crazy seeing people just going  on with their merry lives while the world is still crumbling around them. Especially after her losses this season. She is in no mood to fit in.

  • Love 5
Yolapukka

Yolapukka

(edited)

 

On a similar note, I do wonder if that extra chocolate she snagged is really what's going to get her into trouble.  They're rationing, and keeping the amount posted on the chalkboard above the freezer.  Someone might look into the missing chocolate.

 

 

My thought was she took the chocolate as a cover story, in case someone saw her. She should have covered by changing the number on the board though, I don't think she did. It might have worked if little Sam hadn't been jonesing for cookies so bad that he bee-lined after her in the dark and through the window, then decided to yap about how he tells mommy everything. On that note, it was probably a really bad idea to use a red flag word like secrets to a kid his age in the first place.

Edited by yuggapukka
  • Love 1
SometimesBites

SometimesBites

I'm loving this story line. LOVING. There is so much more to play with in this situation. We had Woodbury, where the evil was buried a couple of layers down, but not an immediate threat to everyone; we had Terminus, where the evil was deep and brutal and immediately apparent; now we have Alexandria, where the secrets are many, the facade is heavy, and the cocktail-party mentality of yore is more frightening than fighting walkers. The entirety of Camp Dinner Bell is having to wrap their brains around the shift: how does one cobble together a long-ago-discarded-as-useless veneer of culture, something now as useless as...well, as a fucking pasta machine.

 

  • I love Carl shooting the shit with other teens: (whom I suspect are the true wildings in this world, ala gang mentality (wolves vs. ?)
  • I love Maggie in a pretty blue button-down shirt, and I want to see a return to her badass self SOON.
  • I am all kinds of in love with SASHA. Yes, there's PTSD. But there is also extreme cognitive dissonance: "That's what you worry about?!" [unspoken subtext: "You're living in a zombie apocalypse, bitch!"]
  • I love Darryl making a li'l buddy. I think part of why he has such a hard shell is that he has such a soft and wounded core that he doesn't dare let his guard down, EVER. So I love that Aaron broke through. Odd couplings are my favorite thing, and these three are the best.
  • I love Andrew Lincoln's face so much it makes my toes curl. It's just ridiculous. That goes for his crazy face at the wall. I LOVED that ending...it was so weird.
  • And most of all, I LOVE CAROL. Women over 50 ARE the invisible in American culture, and Carol's playing that to her advantage in Alexandria. Most fabulously awful wardrobe choices ever. Sparkliest innocent tinkerbell smile ever. And scariest bedtime storyteller ever--holy shit! The thing is, she is proactive. I think that was her real takeaway from Sofia's death: It's all up to the individual--better to act than to react, better to meet the threat head-on, and to never forget that the threat is EVERYWHERE and EVERYONE.
  • Love 16
MissL

MissL

 

 

Two things I still don't understand:  1) how the zombies threw the world into anarchy.  They simply move too slowly.  One person can kill them by the droves.  Even if humankind had to go through a bit of a learning curve, we are so much more powerful than they, eradicating them should not have been very hard.  2) related to that, why the humans don't continuously take out more zombies.  We can hunt them down, and so long as we encounter them in reasonable enough numbers (as the survivors usually seem to), should have no trouble thinning their ranks, and mostly removing the threat.  Knowing that the dead turn into zombies, we should be able to handle that, for the most part, as well.

i.e. to make this world more believable, I feel the zombies should be more powerful.

Totally agree!  The Zombies/rage monsters from 28 Days Later made sense because they were so damn fast and just getting the blood in an eye turned you pretty fast.  Same with the Brad Pitt movie (that I refuse to call World War Z - why use the title if you use NONE of the book?) zombies. A bite turned you fast and they used each other to climb over walls for goodness sake.  Yeah this current world of the Walking Dead doesn't make much sense but I'll suspend disbelief a bit.  I'm still pissed they slept in tents in the open in the first season. If you are going to set up camp why not fortify a HOUSE people. A house!  A little more protection.

 

I do kinda love that we are all just as suspicious as our group though.  The Alexandrians haven't really shown themselves to be anything other than what they say they are but most of us still kinda don't trust them and are waiting for them to pull something.  That being said...the hell Carol?  

 

Whoever said it upthread "Sasha quit wasting bullets!" Exactly what I was thinking! Its not like any of them have figured out how to MAKE bullets and you have to think there is a finite supply of those things.  

 

Also I hate that we don't know for sure that Deanna doesn't know about Terminus, the hospital, and the Governor. We saw only a small portion of the interviews but her husband indicated that the others talked alot about Rick and what he did for them so it makes you wonder how much of their stories they told.   If she has heard the whole story from each of them then....why is she acting like they are kinda crazy for wanting guards and someone in the tower. Are you listening lady? Someone tried to EAT them.

  • Love 3
kj4ever

kj4ever

My thought was she took the chocolate as a cover story, in case someone saw her. She should have covered by changing the number on the board though, I don't think she did. It might have worked if little Sam hadn't been jonesing for cookies so bad that he bee-lined after her in the dark and through the window, then decided to yap about how he tells mommy everything. On that note, it was probably a really bad idea to use a red flag word like secrets to a kid his age in the first place.

I thought so too, and then when she terrorized the kid instead of saying "hey I was just getting chocolate for the cookies" I knew she was just stealing it.  I think that while that Olivia might not know if the guns are gone (which I'm suspicious about - I bet she does know how many there are) she will know the chocolate is gone.  With them beging new the blame will fall on them, and I'm assuming straight to Daryl since he didn't go to the party.

meep.meep

meep.meep

Weil I am a major animal lover with a houseful of  rescues to prove it and if they a really harmed a horse or really shot and eaten dogs. you can bet I would quit  the show and raise hell. However, luckily, I understand this is a TV show. I don't enjoy any scene that shows violence to animals. But then  I am probably in the minority in that I hate the head stomping and brain exploding scenes too. I just remind myself they aren't real.

 

I actually found the scene "The Death of Buttons" to be hilarious, because you could see the actors playing the Walkers gently easing the horse down so as not to hurt their fellow actor.  It would have been better if Daryl and Aaron had found it already down being eaten.

 

Was this the first time we've seen anyone use a silencer?  Both Sasha and Carol used them.

 

I never understand why people don't converse the way they do in normal life - exchange stories of where they came from, what happened to their families, how long they've been in that place, etc.  

  • Love 3
Bad Example

Bad Example

I didn't like the fact that Sasha made an ass out of herself at the party.  Granted, she's been through hell but if she felt so traumatized then she should have bailed out on the party.  No need to spoil things for people trying to get through life by having a good time.  

 

 

I don't think she made an ass out of herself at all.  She didn't want to act like that, she wanted to think she could be normal and get through something that once would have been completely mundane.  She wanted to make the effort.  She just couldn't.  And not in a "oh, I have to keep it real and I'm free to create drama because I have to speak my truth" kind of way, but because her stress disorder is out of control.  

 

And while we're speaking of Sasha, I don't remember her history?  Was she some sort of sharpshooter before the ZA, or did she discover she's got a talent for it while at Woodbury?  

  • Love 5
nodorothyparker

nodorothyparker

Two things I still don't understand:  1) how the zombies threw the world into anarchy.  They simply move too slowly.  One person can kill them by the droves.  Even if humankind had to go through a bit of a learning curve, we are so much more powerful than they, eradicating them should not have been very hard.  2) related to that, why the humans don't continuously take out more zombies.  We can hunt them down, and so long as we encounter them in reasonable enough numbers (as the survivors usually seem to), should have no trouble thinning their ranks, and mostly removing the threat.  Knowing that the dead turn into zombies, we should be able to handle that, for the most part, as well.

 

One person with proper weaponry who knows what they're doing can kill them NOW in droves.  

 

On rewatch of season 2 before this half season started, I was taken aback to realize that Sophia was lost because of TWO walkers that Rick couldn't handle by himself without leaving the child to fend for herself.  These weren't people like us who have years and years of zombie lore under our belts.  Andrea spent an entire night sitting by her dead sister's side and had to see her turn for herself before she could be persuaded to put her down.  Tara had to be told all the way into SEASON 4 that it takes head shots to kill them and no one in her family realized even that far into it that corpses reanimate.  The Gov. and Herschel both kept zombified loved ones around the house where they could have potentially bitten someone.  Military and police are generally taught to aim for the center of the body and thus potentially wasted tons of ammunition and time.   Now multiply all these examples by the millions.  It still requires a certain amount of disbelief but it still starts to become a little more plausible.

  • Love 11
Ocean Chick

Ocean Chick

Not gonna lie - I enjoyed the heck out of Carol scaring the pee out of that kid.  Partly because the kid actor was pretty good at looking scared.  And partly because I know this story point will end up going somewhere.  Just like Carol killing Karvid meant that she was apart from the others and able to rescue them from Terminus when they needed it.  Can't wait to see where this one goes.

 

I'm sure they won't have our hero Rick sleeping with a married woman.  So either this cheek kiss goes nowhere, or Pete is looking at a short life.  They may need to find a new doctor stat.  Heh.

 

Poor Sasha.  She needs a friend to talk to.  Hope she finds one.

 

Daryl eating spaghetti may be the grossest thing I've seen on this show.

  • Love 6
Nashville

Nashville

MAJOR catch-up time! :)

..any ideas for who is the new nanny? I doubt Rick would be too hot on the idea of one of the ASZers taking her full time.

  

Rick might not have a choice. Finding a new sitter is difficult, and all his old sitters are dead.

She should've/could've made up some story about the guns, that she was unfamiliar with them and was ashamed about it, so she sneaked in to get a few of them so that she could look them over, and get that guy who offered to teach her how to shoot.  So even if the kid told the story, her story would have held up because the guy did offer to teach her.  Then she, Rick and Darryl could have tried again (with a better plan) later on to get the guns.

 

Carol already had an extra piece of chocolate in hand (a mini-rebellion against being rationed, I assumed) when KPP showed up; she got that before she even looked at the guns. Would have been the simplest thing in the world to say, "I didn't come in here to get GUNS, mercy sakes, no! I needed more chocolate to make more cookies, see? Now please don't tell anyone, else they may not let me make the cookies any more. And if you keep Our Little Secret, I'll make one batch JUST FOR YOU...."

I couldn't beleive the talk about "I see commerce and industry" in their future. They don't even have a pea patch.

I think some of these people are heavy drinkers.

Was it just me, or did anyone else have a major MST3K flashback during Deanna's little "commerce and industry " speech? While she was talking, I could hear a Tom Servo voiceover in my head saying, "COMMERCE!!! And... INDUSTRY!!!"

  

What are the Unfair Wolves?

A splinter group offshoot of the Fair Wolves. :>

  

Spaghetti causes amnesia.

 

That, or Aaron used something in the spaghetti sauce which WASN'T oregano. Which also might explain Eric's impromptu rambling about pasta makers.

 

Not talking about here. There are people that stopped watching the show because of the horse being eaten in Atlanta. People rage over animal violence all the time. Elsewhere in the world, you know it will happen.

Hell, Jersey's just up the road a piece. You can buy horsemeat in the supermarket there.

  

Honestly I'm having a hard time as seeing them as real.  Everytime they speak I just want to look around like "Is this for real?"  They have absolutely no clue.  I get that they've been mainly sheltered but has it been so long since the world has gone to hell that they forgot what it was like during the brief period of time they were out there in the chaos? Or have none of them been out in the chaos except for Aaron and his bf?  That I find hard to believe.  The military in the whole world couldn't contain this and they think they're safe because they have walls?  I can understand that they haven't experienced what CDB has because it's just been extreme.  Forget the Governor and cannibals.  ZOMBIES HAVE OVERTAKEN!  Let's not be so blasé. about it.  Rick practically rolled his eyes out of his head when all that was keeping the window locked from the gun store was a latch. That to me is just insane but hey. Maybe I've been out there too long like the rest of them.

 

 

Most of the ASZhats appear to be in denial - a degree of self-delusion easily supported by limiting who actually steps outside the walls.

 

And poor Buttons! He finally decided to let himself be tamed, and it got him killed. It's a metaphor, Daryl! A metaphorse!

Dang, you beat me to it. After two years of going feral to survive, all it took was a few seconds of Daryl's Horse Whisperer bit for Buttons to remember the Good Old Days and let his guard down - and get ripped apart as a result. Total metaphor for Deanna whispering memories of past civilization to members of CDB....

  

What struck me was that she said he always left it up there and sometimes was a lookout. It seems as if it is supposed to look like someone is always there when there isn't. Is that to keep everyone inline, or to make everyone think they are being looked after (when they really aren't)?

 

THIS, possibly more than anything else, struck me as stupidity to the Nth degree. So - you're going to make a HIGHLY VISIBLE sign that (a) people are here and (b) there's something worth guarding - then NOT REALLY guard it? Maybe Reg is falling down on the job to the point Deanna is looking forward to a good rapey horde wandering through town??? Idiots.

 

The ASZhats take guns from all new people upon arrival, and they currently have a ton of guns. How many of them are from people they've taken in but are no longer around?

  

Despite Deanna's earlier words about how exiling people is the same as killing them, I'm wondering more and more if "exile" isn't a euphemism for outright execution. Think about it - if you're turning people out of your oh-so-comfortable community, are you going to return them weapons they might use to fight their way back in? And if you throw them out the door without weapons - are you prepared for what happens if they find weapons on the Outside, and return with empty bellies and a chip on their shoulder?

  • Love 6
CletusMusashi

CletusMusashi

(edited)

Even if Sasha hadn't flipped out, how exactly was that "dinner" conversation supposed to go? 

"I'd like to cook you your very favorite meal."

"Holy shit! You have lobsters here?"

"Well, obviously not lobsters."

"Ha ha, that's okay. Honestly, I'd be pretty happy with just a burger."

"We don't actually have cows."

"Well, okay. Make whatever jokes you want about this, but it has been a long time since any place has had fried chicken..."

"We have applesauce, spaghetti, and sometimes rabbits."

"Spaghetti sounds great!"

"We actually just ran out of spaghetti, though. The neighbors (they're a couple of gay fellows, god bless 'em,) just got the last case of it. Oh, but if you could be a dear, and go out and fetch me a pasta maker..."

"Apple sauce would be fine."

"Your friend with the flowered blouse took the last of the apple sauce."

"What the hell is this, a Monty Python sketch?"

Edited by CletusMusashi
  • Love 23
Bad Example

Bad Example

  • And most of all, I LOVE CAROL. Women over 50 ARE the invisible in American culture, and Carol's playing that to her advantage in Alexandria. Most fabulously awful wardrobe choices ever. Sparkliest innocent tinkerbell smile ever. And scariest bedtime storyteller ever--holy shit! The thing is, she is proactive. I think that was her real takeaway from Sofia's death: It's all up to the individual--better to act than to react, better to meet the threat head-on, and to never forget that the threat is EVERYWHERE and EVERYONE.

 

 

THIS.  Yep, I love Carol, mistakes and all, and resent like hell that women are so dismissed.  Carol, River Song, and Laura Roslin... my badass fictional role models.

  • Love 8
JackONeill

JackONeill

(edited)

I agree with most that's already been said.

 

But, here's my profound statement/question: Why did Rick (at the end of the show) choose the 6-shooter (and it may only be a five-shooter)? He's already got the Python, which, admittedly, is a cool weapon. But why not go with something that has a clip with 12-15 rounds and is so much easier, and quicker, to reload??????

Edited by JackONeill
  • Love 2
Nashville

Nashville

And I don't think the food or motorcycle is what got to Daryl.  I think it's the fact that he can get the hell out of dodge and be in the wild every once in awhile, just like Aaron said. 

This times ten.

  

The stamp could be a way for them all to bond together symbolically as a community.

I had the same idea - but there's no denying MUCH better options existed than a scarlet "A".

Prynne, party of two?

Also not to be overlooked - although the kid was going around (presumably) stamping everybody in sight, the only ones making a big production out of it appeared to be Jessie and Rick - but I digress....

Ordinarily, I would agree.But given how everyone's behaving, I'm starting to wonder if the get together was meant to be the precursor to the first Zombie Apocalypse Key Party, that is, if people still had keys.

Deemed if I didn't think the same thing - especially with the alcohol flowing so freely. Actually, I put one of the primary motivators behind The Kiss to be Rick's first strong drink in a year or more.

KPP= Kid Pee Pants?

If so, hilarious!

No more callers, please - we have a winner.

  • Love 6
Yolapukka

Yolapukka

I'm going to defend Deanna a little on the watch tower thing, in that she didn't want Sasha, the newcomer going up there at that particular time, it's not that she rejects it outright but she doesn't want someone she doesn't know enough to trust in a vantage point with a high-powered fire-arm and a clear shot at her community. After getting a good look at Sasha's present twitchiness, she may be more concerned about her issues. What is indefensible though, is she sees no urgency to acting on Rick's concerns about the overall security of the community. Even if you don't see the need for a sniper up there full-time, it's still wise to have someone scanning the approach to the community, if only to give anyone leaving a heads-up about the location of walkers. I think some of this is on Rick and his people, because from what we've seen of the interviews, CDB have withheld the full extent of their bad experiences from her. She really doesn't seem to get it as to how quickly things can go sideways. I'm starting to wonder about the possibility that Aaron had his own agenda in bringing Rick inside. Deanna seems like a highly capable peacetime leader, but seems more concerned with maintaining her civil society than preparing to defend it. Alexandria should be dealing with the possibility of conflict like present day Switzerland, not some combination of Tombstone, Arizona of the 1880's and a sleepy college town. I can understand that there are tensions in the community and some citizens who shouldn't have access to fire-arms, Dr. Drunky-Pete springs to mind, but it seems like a lot of them don't even know how to defend themselves from a walker in front of them beyond yelling for help and flapping their hands.

  • Love 1
minamurray78

minamurray78

Do we know whether Rick told the rest of his group about the "W" carved on walkers they saw on Noah's grounds? It was just him, Michonne, Glenn, other than Noah and Tyresse. Did Daryl and Carol looked like they knew about it when they saw it on that walker during their meeting with Rick? Cause that seems like something Rick would want to warn, not just his group, but also Deanna about. I mean, shit went down 50 (or 100?) miles from their town, and now a walker bearing that mark just ambled pretty close. That would be a solid argument to make Deanna listen to their warnings.

  • Love 4
lulee

lulee

(edited)

Going back multiple pages and not dealing with multiple quotes on my phone:

1) to the poster who asked if Rick and Darryl had seen the W on the walker heads in Noah's neighborhood: Rick did but Darryl didn't go on that mission.

ETA: minamurray78 just clarified that above.

2) about Aaron referring to "walkers" to Darryl (rather than "roamers"). I think it was a confidence-building gesture. Still not sure Aaron's showing all his cards though - it could have been part of sincere trust-building or more hidden machinations. .

Edited by lulee
  • Love 1
Pestilentia

Pestilentia

 

I actually found the scene "The Death of Buttons" to be hilarious, because you could see the actors playing the Walkers gently easing the horse down so as not to hurt their fellow actor.  It would have been better if Daryl and Aaron had found it already down being eaten.

 

How many walkers were there?

Because anyone who has ever tried to calm a spooked horse knows they can defend themselves really well- those hooves are deadly.

I don't think five people could pull down a horse in that manner, and that's with well fed, fully functional musculature.

  • Love 1
kj4ever

kj4ever

Going back multiple pages and not dealing with multiple quotes on my phone:

1) to the poster who asked if Rick and Darryl had seen the W on the walker heads in Noah's neighborhood: Rick did but Darryl didn't go on that mission.

ETA: minamurray78 just clarified that above.

2) about Aaron referring to "walkers" to Darryl (rather than "roamers"). I think it was a confidence-building gesture. Still not sure Aaron's showing all his cards though - it could have been part of sincere trust-building or more hidden machinations. .

I'm going to have to go back and rewatch...I think we saw them as the heads tumbled out of the truck when they were trying to get away, so maybe just we viewers saw them.  Rick was busy trying to get the hell out of dodge.  I can't remember if we saw them before that.

CletusMusashi

CletusMusashi

CDB= Camp Dinner Bell, as first used in "Guts" when Rick was so loud he might as well be ringing a dinner bell for the walkers. It has been used for Rick's group, prone to being idiotic and not at all stealthy, ever since.

 

OK, anyone got a good name for an acronym/nick-name explanation thread?

Maybe something like "WTF is a CDB? Nicknames of 'The Walking Dead.'" I think it should certainly have "CDB" and/or "Unfair Wolves" in the title, because those are by far the ones most commonly asked about,

  • Love 5
morgankobi

morgankobi

(edited)

A is for Alexandrians, anvils, and Scarlett A...anything else?

Atrophy and ASZhats?

 

I don't think we can ignore the red As that were marking the path the group took through Terminus to the train car.

 

Maybe something like "WTF is a CDB? Nicknames of 'The Walking Dead.'" I think it should certainly have "CDB" and/or "Unfair Wolves" in the title, because those are by far the ones most commonly asked about,

 

 

I like that. Maybe without the Unfair Wolves (and it really pains me to say that). CDB will likely last until the end, but Unfair Wolves may not be used as much (except by a loyal few!) as early as next season.

Edited by morgankobi
  • Love 1
whyjen8

whyjen8

(edited)

I'm glad Carol scared the kid, Sam needed it.  He's what? 9-10.  Why the stamp?  I took the stamp to belong to a teacher that he had found, oh he wants to stamp everyone's hand with it because 'A' for AZhats, except he's 9-10 not 3-4 years old.  everyone just indulge him, ok.  Oh no, all the cookies are gone, Sam wants more cookies ya'll.  So Rick, talks to the kid like he's 3-4 not 9-10 and tells young Sam that his friend made the cookies and he'll get her to make Sam some more.  Rick gets a stamp.  Sam tracks down Rick's cookie making friend and stalks her.  With his ninja skills because Carol didn't have a clue she was being stalked.  Sam follows this woman that he didn't know into the night and through a window of a dark house.  This is stranger danger 101 Sam, what is your deal?  Sam is lucky Carol just scared him, IMO.

 

While watching the show I took the cheek kiss as Rick was making an attempt to fit in, he kissed Jessie on the cheek.....the way men kiss women who are just friends of theirs at cocktail parties and such.  I took her reaction as "oh crap, I hope the jealous hubby didn't see that or it's going to be a long night."

 

Why do they have so many guns?  There's so many, too many it would seem for how protected and sheltered they think they are.

 

Why, oh WHY....didn't Rick tell Carol and Darryl about the "W" carved in the heads in Richmond?  And he needs to tell Michone and Glen they found a W head here.  OMG, share Rick.

 

I'm happy Daryl got another bike, I've missed that.

 

I also got the impression that Deanna wanted Sasha at the party because her son thought she was hot.

Edited by whyjen8
  • Love 8

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