Like Sand Through an Hourglass: Behind the Scenes of DOOL

[CanaryFan98]

3 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I like to pretend that Kassie has maintained a friendship with her former soap children so this makes me smile.

There's no pretending she has maintained a closeness with her TV children the female ones at least. She's also close to Kristen Alderson.

[Pearson80]

16 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

There's no pretending she has maintained a closeness with her TV children the female ones at least. She's also close to Kristen Alderson.

I miss Kassie and I really miss Blair on One Life To Live. I still miss that show after all of these years.  

[boes]

2 hours ago, Pearson80 said:

I miss Kassie and I really miss Blair on One Life To Live. I still miss that show after all of these years.  

Me too!

[CanaryFan98]

6 hours ago, Pearson80 said:

I miss Kassie and I really miss Blair on One Life To Live. I still miss that show after all of these years.  

It probably should still be on the air over GH tbh.

[CanaryFan98]

(1) Soap Opera News on Twitter: "@MarciMiller opens up about her decision to leave #DaysofOurLives, motherhood, what's next for her and much more! #DAYS #Chabby https://t.co/AbTYN6PPSZ" / Twitter

Apparently she found out over a phone call I guess this isn't a surprise given how its playing out onscreen.

[Swartz]

I get being upset when losing your couple but chabby fans seem to be overreacting to the shows decision to kill Abby.    I mean I underrstand being upset but the actress wants to leave.     
Though if I was writing it I'd have given chabby a happy ending and sent them off but they apparently want to keep BF.    I don't know.  I think we have enough DiMera's so I'd have gotten rid of him but if they must keep Abby what is the show supposed to do?  Another recast? No, thank you.  Send Abigail away again.  That's ruin your couple too.   So death seems like the best solution if they insist on keeping Chad.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Swartz said:

I get being upset when losing your couple but chabby fans seem to be overreacting to the shows decision to kill Abby.    I mean I underrstand being upset but the actress wants to leave.     
Though if I was writing it I'd have given chabby a happy ending and sent them off but they apparently want to keep BF.    I don't know.  I think we have enough DiMera's so I'd have gotten rid of him but if they must keep Abby what is the show supposed to do?  Another recast? No, thank you.  Send Abigail away again.  That's ruin your couple too.   So death seems like the best solution if they insist on keeping Chad.

I don't care if Abby/Chad stay together or split up, but the show could have recast again. No one acts as if that was a legitimate option. I mean, both Kate Mansi and Marci Miller were recasts. What's one more?

Ron just likes killing legacy characters because he can. I find it short sighted, not to mention lazy.

[KBrownie]

5 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I don't care if Abby/Chad stay together or split up, but the show could have recast again. No one acts as if that was a legitimate option. I mean, both Kate Mansi and Marci Miller were recasts. What's one more?

Ron just likes killing legacy characters because he can. I find it short sighted, not to mention lazy.

And the whole “a recast possibly wouldn’t have been accepted” is nonsense not only for the reasons already mentioned, but because of all the recasts coming with Beyond Salem 2, some of those coming to the regular show. It was the perfect time to recast. Ron just didn’t want to with this character. He should just own it instead of twisting himself into a pretzel with all these nonsensical explanations. 
 

He should also own that he has no use for the Horton and Deveraux families other than how the ones that remain can prop his pets. JJ doesn’t even rate a mention and Jack and Jennifer are just shells of their former selves whose only purpose is to prop and move plot forward. 

[Pearson80]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I don't care if Abby/Chad stay together or split up, but the show could have recast again. No one acts as if that was a legitimate option. I mean, both Kate Mansi and Marci Miller were recasts. What's one more?

Ron just likes killing legacy characters because he can. I find it short sighted, not to mention lazy.

Exactly! Mike Horton her uncle is the most recast character in soap history if I am not mistaken.

[WendyCR72]

14 minutes ago, Pearson80 said:

Exactly! Mike Horton her uncle is the most recast character in soap history if I am not mistaken.

Google says SIXTEEN actors played Mike Horton. The next soap character per Google to have close to that is Tom Hughes on As The World Turns, played by thirteen actors.

So, again, no reason that Abigail could not be recast again.

[peachmangosteen]

12 hours ago, Swartz said:

I get being upset when losing your couple but chabby fans seem to be overreacting to the shows decision to kill Abby.    I mean I underrstand being upset but the actress wants to leave.     
Though if I was writing it I'd have given chabby a happy ending and sent them off but they apparently want to keep BF.    I don't know.  I think we have enough DiMera's so I'd have gotten rid of him but if they must keep Abby what is the show supposed to do?  Another recast? No, thank you.  Send Abigail away again.  That's ruin your couple too.   So death seems like the best solution if they insist on keeping Chad.

This. No matter what they did, there were gonna be fans who were pissed. 

I do think it's short-sighted for them to just kill characters off when actors want to leave but since death means nothing on Days they probably figure they can get some good drama and performances in the short term and then just bring that character back later anyway.

[DisneyBoy]

I'm disappointed.

I'm furious.

I was promised a beheading.

[CanaryFan98]

I wonder where that beheading rumor came from? What if that was the plan but decided to change course? 

Outside of her dying offscreen it wasn't really much of a murder tbh. Paige's was probably the most haunting to me in recent years.

[Pearson80]

4 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

I wonder where that beheading rumor came from? What if that was the plan but decided to change course? 

Outside of her dying offscreen it wasn't really much of a murder tbh. Paige's was probably the most haunting to me in recent years.

I think that Paige's murder was supposed to drive home to the viewers that Ben was a monster.  Let's not forget that Ben also mocked her death and called her worm food..  This is the man that Ron has turned into a "hero"..

Edited June 17, 2022 by Pearson80

[DisneyBoy]

Ugh, he did?

🤬🤬🤬🤬

I either never heard him say it or blocked it out.

[Pearson80]

8 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Ugh, he did?

🤬🤬🤬🤬

I either never heard him say it or blocked it out.

He said it when he had an argument with JJ and he meant every word..

[DisneyBoy]

I'm so glad y'all haven't forgotten the details. The rewriting of the narrative on this show is so crazy.

Paige's death was definitely horrific.

I can't believe Ciara was in her dormroom about to get killed by Ben and still didn't leave him.

[CanaryFan98]

8 hours ago, Pearson80 said:

He said it when he had an argument with JJ and he meant every word..

Yes that's when JJ put a gun to his head afterwards.

I enjoyed Ben back then go figure.

[Jaded]

12 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Paige's death was definitely horrific.

It really was. It gave me Frankie from AW murder vibes and both murders were senseless in the grand scheme of things. I quit watching each show for awhile afterwards due to how disgusted I was. I haven't really watched Days in a year or more due to the way they were ramping things up to try to turn Cin into the next supercouple (I'm aware those don't exist anymore).

[Pearson80]

5 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

Yes that's when JJ put a gun to his head afterwards.

I enjoyed Ben back then go figure.

Ben should have remained evil and Ron could have brought the actor back as Ben's twin.

[DisneyBoy]

Very few actors can pull off being evil and then nice again afterwards. The audience doesn't accept it. Once you see someone is capable of selling "cruel", you see them differently. And some actors are just more compelling as one more than the other.

Eileen is able to play both sides of that coin, but she's the exception and even there, TPTB have a preference. Kristen therefore will always be evil.

I bought Mansi as deranged and selfish. Marci, not at all. So her as wig-wearing Abby never worked for me.

RSW was never terrific either as a bad guy or good guy. I don't love Nice Ben even divorced of his past misdeeds. And Bad Ben was...still not compelling. Just...there.

Edited June 18, 2022 by DisneyBoy

[CanaryFan98]

4 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Very few actors can pull off being evil and then nice again afterwards. The audience doesn't accept it. Once you see someone is capable of selling "cruel", you see them differently. And some actors are just more compelling as one more than the other.

Eileen is able to play both sides of that coin, but she's the exception and even there, TPTB have a preference. Kristen therefore will always be evil.

I bought Mansi as deranged and selfish. Marci, not at all. So her as wig-wearing Abby never worked for me.

RSW was never terrific either as a bad guy or good guy. I don't love Nice Ben even divorced of his past misdeeds. And Bad Ben was...still not compelling. Just...there.

I agree very few can pull it off. However if its true that RSW is returning as a different character I don't get why they didn't do this originally and have Ciara fall for him. There could still be drama with Ben's twin having to live with the sins his brother committed they did this on GH with Kevin but Jon Lindstrom is also another actor that can pull off good and evil as well. 

Back then they realized soap viewers don't like serial killers being romantic leads (that's changed now though). 

[DisneyBoy]

Has it?

Feels more like the taste level of the Producers has changed.

I may be in denial, but I'd like to think audiences are less turned on by mass murderers these days.

[Pearson80]

1 hour ago, DisneyBoy said:

Very few actors can pull off being evil and then nice again afterwards. The audience doesn't accept it. Once you see someone is capable of selling "cruel", you see them differently. And some actors are just more compelling as one more than the other.

Eileen is able to play both sides of that coin, but she's the exception and even there, TPTB have a preference. Kristen therefore will always be evil.

I bought Mansi as deranged and selfish. Marci, not at all. So her as wig-wearing Abby never worked for me.

RSW was never terrific either as a bad guy or good guy. I don't love Nice Ben even divorced of his past misdeeds. And Bad Ben was...still not compelling. Just...there.

That is true not too many actors on daytime can play dual roles and play them well as distinct individuals.  

Anne Heche in my opinion as Vicky and Marley on Another World set the standard in my opinion on how to play a dual role that nobody has yet surpass on daytime past and present. 

The thing is that Anne Heche had so many scenes of the twins just hanging out  being sisters and she made it look so easy that you forgot that she was playing both roles.  The editing and the blocking of the twins scenes with each other were so well done.  I remember a scene where Marley is siting on a couch and Vicky is sitting on the floor not too far from her and they are just chatting laughing and eating ice cream. 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Pearson80

[CanaryFan98]

25 minutes ago, Pearson80 said:

That is true not too many actors on daytime can play dual roles and play them well as distinct individuals.  

Anne Heche in my opinion as Vicky and Marley on Another World set the standard in my opinion on how to play a dual role that nobody has yet surpass on daytime past and present.  The thing is that Anne Heche had so many scenes of the twins just hanging out  being sisters and she made it look so easy that you forgot that she was playing both roles.  The editing and the blocking of the twins scenes with each other were so well done. 

David Canary comes to mind also would include Jon Lindstrom.

1 hour ago, DisneyBoy said:

Has it?

Feels more like the taste level of the Producers has changed.

I may be in denial, but I'd like to think audiences are less turned on by mass murderers these days.

You would think but Franco/Liz of GH and Ben/Ciara have decent fanbases (or at least very vocal). At least GH had the sense to murder Franco(the only good thing Peter did). Days just doubled down on it.

[Retired at last]

1 hour ago, CanaryFan98 said:

I don't get why they didn't do this originally and have Ciara fall for him. There could still be drama with Ben's twin having to live with the sins his brother committed t

I think they tried that with the return of Jake/Stefan and it really didn't work, as far as I am concerned. If they would have left Jake as a mechanic that might be OK, but to try to turn him into a regular Dimera and having Gabi fall in love with him just didn't work. All they had in common was sex. 

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

You would think but Franco/Liz of GH and Ben/Ciara have decent fanbases (or at least very vocal). At least GH had the sense to murder Franco(the only good thing Peter did). Days just doubled down on it.

It took them awhile to kill Franco though. They doubled down on him for so long. 

[DisneyBoy]

11 hours ago, Pearson80 said:

That is true not too many actors on daytime can play dual roles and play them well as distinct individuals.  

Anne Heche in my opinion as Vicky and Marley on Another World set the standard in my opinion on how to play a dual role that nobody has yet surpass on daytime past and present. 

The thing is that Anne Heche had so many scenes of the twins just hanging out  being sisters and she made it look so easy that you forgot that she was playing both roles.  The editing and the blocking of the twins scenes with each other were so well done.  I remember a scene where Marley is siting on a couch and Vicky is sitting on the floor not too far from her and they are just chatting laughing and eating ice cream. 

That performance really was spectacular. And the producers took the time necessary to make it look believable. Just as you said, the blocking and the doubles used really made it seem like two actresses were on camera at once.

And Heche wasn't doing a caricature as either character - imagine that!

The good old days. I miss the humanity of Another World often. Heck, even when they made Marley go bonkers in 1998, it was handled better than 90% of what I see on this show (and no, it wasn't a brilliant story).

8 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

They doubled down on him for so long. 

Am I wrong to think this is a nail in DOOL's coffin?

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Am I wrong to think this is a nail in DOOL's coffin?

Franco wasn't the nail in GH's so I highly doubt Ben will be it for Days.

[CanaryFan98]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Franco wasn't the nail in GH's so I highly doubt Ben will be it for Days.

Yeah if Days can survive Devil Possession nothing else can be worse than that tbh. If Days gets cancelled it will be because NBC has no use for it anymore and found a better replacement.

I can see it leaving NBC but stay on Peacock tbh.

[boes]

21 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

It took them awhile to kill Franco though. They doubled down on him for so long. 

Franco is what got me to give up on GH completely.  To be honest, it was never anywhere near one of my favorite soaps - Tony Geary and Maurice Bernard made sure of that - but I gave it a lot more attention when Roger Howarth joined up since I loved him on OLTL.  

But the character he played was so repulsive, and IMO, the show gave way to RH's worst impulses (wholeheartedly, it seemed) and it was squirm in your seat bad to me.

Then DOOL decided that, with Ollie the Necktie Killer, abs made the man for some godawful reason.  In any case, to me, bad as he is, he's not anywhere near as awful as RH became on GH.

[CanaryFan98]

43 minutes ago, boes said:

Franco is what got me to give up on GH completely.  To be honest, it was never anywhere near one of my favorite soaps - Tony Geary and Maurice Bernard made sure of that - but I gave it a lot more attention when Roger Howarth joined up since I loved him on OLTL.  

But the character he played was so repulsive, and IMO, the show gave way to RH's worst impulses (wholeheartedly, it seemed) and it was squirm in your seat bad to me.

Then DOOL decided that, with Ollie the Necktie Killer, abs made the man for some godawful reason.  In any case, to me, bad as he is, he's not anywhere near as awful as RH became on GH.

I agree Ben bothers me a lot less than Franco did. I guess because Ben has more self awareness.

[Pearson80]

16 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

And Heche wasn't doing a caricature as either character - imagine that!

Anne Heche has said that playing the twins for 3 years in front burner storylines was the best time and the most exhausting time of her life. No other characters that she has portrayed in other genres can compare.  She has always spoken about her  soap career with pride love and nostalgia.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Pearson80

[Giuseppe]

On 6/18/2022 at 1:29 PM, CanaryFan98 said:

if its true that RSW is returning as a different character

I'm assuming (hoping) this is speculation and not a spoiler, but either way I wish I hadn't read it in this thread. DAYS may be lame but I still like to stay spoiler free.

[Guncle Adam]

On 6/18/2022 at 1:21 PM, DisneyBoy said:

Very few actors can pull off being evil and then nice again afterwards. The audience doesn't accept it. Once you see someone is capable of selling "cruel", you see them differently. And some actors are just more compelling as one more than the other.

Eileen is able to play both sides of that coin, but she's the exception and even there, TPTB have a preference. Kristen therefore will always be evil.

Renee Jones pulled that off as Lexie, too. 

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, ajs1615 said:

Renee Jones pulled that off as Lexie, too. 

She had the advantage of being a nice beloved character before being evil.  That's part of why it worked with her.

I wish soaps would just commit to a character being irredeemably evil and getting rid of them when their story is up (like they used to).  Making serial killers and rapists good guys because reasons does NOT work for me. 

[Guncle Adam]

18 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

That performance really was spectacular. And the producers took the time necessary to make it look believable. Just as you said, the blocking and the doubles used really made it seem like two actresses were on camera at once.

I miss AW too. Heche as the twins is probably my favorite performance(s) on any soap, period, as well as my favorite dual role in any medium. Vicky and Marley could be dressed and styled identically, silent in the background of a scene, and you could still tell them apart. Their walk, their posture, their expressions were different. And don't even get me started on her performances as one twin pretending to be the other. She was amazing. 

I love Days but I don't think I've ever seen a performance on Heche's level. 

[CanaryFan98]

21 hours ago, Katy M said:

She had the advantage of being a nice beloved character before being evil.  That's part of why it worked with her.

I wish soaps would just commit to a character being irredeemably evil and getting rid of them when their story is up (like they used to).  Making serial killers and rapists good guys because reasons does NOT work for me. 

Either that or maybe write a character who does bad things but not to the point where they can't be redeemed(see serial killer, rapist etc) they treat these crimes as no big deal and when they walk it back they act like it never happened or downplay the whole thing which neuters the drama of it all.

[DisneyBoy]

Jake raped Marley on Another World and...yeeaaahh...he kinda barely survived it as a character. When, years later, he married her twin it was....uncomfortable.

And the rape was framed as a "no baby, we love each other, I'll prove it...!" act of desperation. Not a violent "come here!!" attack. But that didn't diminish how icky it felt watching Marley's family still accept and love him afterwards. It always hung in the air. And I don't remember what penance/comeuppance, if any, there was for Jake. Tom Eplin was immensely loveable though and had great writing otherwise.

I was able to mentally sidestep the rape plot,  personally, and just enjoy Jake for the nice guy he became. I guess some have been doing the same with RSW's Ben...but there just isn't as much there to enjoy. There's no silver lining to latch onto. The writing gave us nothing but "he's better now - LOVE HIM!" and RSW is so empty as a performer so...

Making a character a rapist or a serial killler is pretty much the kiss of death. Mobster is a bit more flexible, like with Victor and Stefano...

...but weren't they both rapists as well...or technically not..?

Edited June 20, 2022 by DisneyBoy

[CanaryFan98]

2 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Jake raped Marley on Another World and...yeeaaahh...he kinda barely survived it as a character. When years later, he married her twin it was....uncomfortable.

And the rape was framed as a "no baby, we love each other, I'll prove it...!" act of desperation. Not a violent "come here!!" attack. But that didn't diminish how icky it felt watching Marley's family still accept and love him afterwards. It always hung in the air. And I don't remember what penance/comeuppance, if any, there was for Jake. Tom Eplin was immensely loveable though and had great writing otherwise.

I was able to mentally sidestep the rape plot,  personally, and just enjoy Jake for the nice guy he became. I guess some have been doing the same with RSW's Ben...but there just isn't as much there to enjoy. There's no silver lining to latch onto. The writing gave us nothing but "he's better now - LOVE HIM!" and RSW is so empty as a performer so...

Weren't Jake/Vicky friends before all that since childhood? I think Jake went to jail but it also helped that Jake was never considered a model citizen he was always scrapping to earn respect and never entirely got it. People were allowed to hate him like Amanda among others. There was always a struggle with him and the drama wasn't neutered.  The people who hated him weren't considered bad people for it. 

I would say by the end of his time he was a model citizen(by soap standards) but it didn't seem contrived either like it does with Ben.

Also Ben was a serial killer and I think there are some crimes a character just can't come back from..

[tribeca]

Jake from as the world turns was a rapists ?

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, tribeca said:

Jake from as the world turns was a rapists ?

Yes, as detailed above during his long history on Another World.

[tribeca]

32 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yes, as detailed above during his long history on Another World.

I had no idea 🤷‍♀️ I never watched another world.   All of my family watched as the world turns.  Jake seemed like  such nice guy.   

[methodwriter85]

On 6/19/2022 at 8:24 PM, Katy M said:

I wish soaps would just commit to a character being irredeemably evil and getting rid of them when their story is up (like they used to).  Making serial killers and rapists good guys because reasons does NOT work for me. 

I think the tide started turning with Marco Dane and Luke Spencer.

The REAL prototype for this though was Todd Manning on One Life to Live. It's pretty close to what they did with Ben, but Roger Howarth had the acting chops and writing behind him to pull it off.

[Lisa418722]

11 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Making a character a rapist or a serial killler is pretty much the kiss of death.

A lot of people don't remember that Jack on DOOL is a rapist either.  Especially now that Kayla and Jack are friendly.  

[Katy M]

20 minutes ago, Lisa418722 said:

A lot of people don't remember that Jack on DOOL is a rapist either.  Especially now that Kayla and Jack are friendly.  

I do, but they put in the time to redeem him. It didn't happen instantaneously.  And unlike Luke from GH and EJ from Days, they didn't pair him with his victim.  Yes, she's forgiven him, but she's not married to him.

[RedElf]

19 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Making a character a rapist or a serial killler is pretty much the kiss of death. Mobster is a bit more flexible, like with Victor and Stefano...

Unless it's Luke on GH.

7 hours ago, Katy M said:

I do, but they put in the time to redeem him. It didn't happen instantaneously.  And unlike Luke from GH and EJ from Days, they didn't pair him with his victim.  Yes, she's forgiven him, but she's not married to him.

And they went over it again when JJ found out.

[ByaNose]

I was reading Billy Flynn’s Q & A in SOD. My impression was that he would have been fine if they had replaced Marci and Kate with another recast to keep the love story of Chad & Abigail alive. I’m with him on this. I’m sure the death will give him good material to work with but I think they could have a found a perfectly known or unknown actress to continue in the role. Besides who else is Gwen going to hate? LOL!!!!

[CanaryFan98]

Well there's Sarah if she sticks around regardless this show is going to try and make Gwen stick. I mean she can always go back to hating Gabi or whoever Chad's new love interest will be.

[Sidney]

It was really sad watching Sarah yesterday. Ron managed to turn a strong self-confident woman into raving lunatic. If they can't give Lindsay anything better than this, I'd rather they wrote her off.