Tennis Thread

[Dejana]

Congrats Andreescu, held her nerve after nearly choking away the second set.

Mama Andreescu looks like quite the character!

[Bewitched]

Just now, Dejana said:

Mama Andreescu looks like quite the character!

Flashbacks from Alla Kournikova?

I had no strong opinion going into the match but I got irritated watching Serena look whiny  (for lack of a better word) when her serve failed her.  That's when she gets into trouble, when that look/emotion takes over, not always when her game fails her.

My wish for Venus is for her to stop playing singles.  She could easily be the #1 doubles player in the world and it would extend her career.  That would make it more likely for her to get one more gold medal.

[cleo]

Lol Bianca apologized to the crowd for winning. True Canadian.

[BitterApple]

That was....unique.

Serena was playing so well this week, what happened?

11 minutes ago, Dejana said:

Mama Andreescu looks like quite the character!

She reminds of an old-timey Gypsy fortune teller. I spent the whole time trying to figure out if she was wearing a wig. 

[Ohwell]

Congrats to Andreescu.  It was tough pulling through that match with the crowd on Serena's side.

I hope Mama Andreescu isn't ill, which is why she might be wearing that wig.  

[KittenPokerCheater]

I can't fathom that Serena lost.  😞

But congrats to Andreescu on her win.

[khyber]

One down, one to go.

[Harry24]

1 hour ago, Bewitched said:

I got irritated watching Serena look whiny (for lack of a better word) 

Agreed that this is not a good look for a grown woman.

Congratulations to Bianca.  I wish it had been a better match.

[TVbitch]

Wow, did Serena party with the princess last night? Her game was AWOL. Meanwhile, Andreescu really picked it up from her last match. Good on her! 

Now it's Daniil's turn to slay another giant!! I hope he is inspired.

PS. Venus looked stunning. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by TVbitch

[Harry24]

53 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

PS. Venus looked stunning. 

I know!  I especially liked seeing her beautiful, graceful hands with natural, short nails.  (I'm really over the long, brightly colored fake nail look.)

[Jillibean]

I think it might be time for Serena to start working on her mental fitness as well as her physical fitness. It was never a significant issue for her pre-pregnancy, but every final she has played since her return has been completely underwhelming. She gets out there and can’t serve, makes tons of errors, and looks like she can barely move. The commentators try to convince us that her opponents are playing the matches of their lives (and I might agree about Halep), but in reality it isn’t hard to beat a Serena who is so off form.

I was also struck by the difference between Serena’s play against Svitolina and here. She looked great against Elina. Served well, hitting winners off both sides, very few errors. Two days later, she was a mess. There has to be a mental aspect. Somewhat ironically, she’s reminding me of PRE-pregnancy Kim Clijsters, who would storm her way through a grand slam and couldn’t buy a final win because she would play so tight.

Also: Chrissie, don’t think I didn’t notice that when Serena was looking a bit off early against Svitolina, you claimed that Serena has more trouble with players who don’t produce a lot of power than those who do, but that when she was struggling in this match you “explained” that Serena hasn’t seen power like Andreescu has in this tournament yet. Does she get a bonus for every excuse she creates when Serena is off? Ridiculous.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Jillibean

[ombelico]

3 hours ago, Jillibean said:

Also: Chrissie, don’t think I didn’t notice that when Serena was looking a bit off early against Svitolina, you claimed that Serena has more trouble with players who don’t produce a lot of power than those who do, but that when she was struggling in this match you “explained” that Serena hasn’t seen power like Andreescu has in this tournament yet. Does she get a bonus for every excuse she creates when Serena is off? Ridiculous.

This is the aspect that annoys me the most of tennis commentary. They're all frigging armchair psychiatrists, claiming they know what's in a person's head from one minute to the next. If it's one thing one day, it's the opposite the other day, just based on the convenience of the moment. Clearly any sport at the top level is a mental game in large part, but given how much tennis players push their bodies, it's not surprising that some random ache will show up at an inopportune time, especially for the players in their mid-late '30s. 

(That said, I totally agree with the idea that Serena should start working with a sports psychologist now that it seems that her physical fitness is good.)

[surreysmum]

All right, call me an over-sensitive Canadian, but I'd like to see a bit more respect for Bianca in the post-match commentary-verse. Serena didn't lose this match; Bianca won it. She has beaten every top-10 player she's played in the last year. There was no particular reason to suppose she couldn't have at least a very good chance against Serena, who was, let's remember, seeded 8th, not 1st, in this tourney.

My main concern for Bianca is that this may have come a year or two too soon in her professional life; almost certainly the next year or so are going to be a lot harder for her when she comes up against the drastically higher expectations this win will engender. That's a lot to deal with when you're still not even 20.

I think she's tough enough, though. Go Bianca. #SheTheNorth

[galaxygirl76]

6 minutes ago, surreysmum said:

All right, call me an over-sensitive Canadian, but I'd like to see a bit more respect for Bianca in the post-match commentary-verse. Serena didn't lose this match; Bianca won it. She has beaten every top-10 player she's played in the last year. There was no particular reason to suppose she couldn't have at least a very good chance against Serena, who was, let's remember, seeded 8th, not 1st, in this tourney.

My main concern for Bianca is that this may have come a year or two too soon in her professional life; almost certainly the next year or so are going to be a lot harder for her when she comes up against the drastically higher expectations this win will engender. That's a lot to deal with when you're still not even 20.

I think she's tough enough, though. Go Bianca. #SheTheNorth

I have noticed that when Serena loses it's always about how she lost it, she didn't play well, her best, whatever. It's never that the other player was better.

[TVbitch]

I can barely stand to listen to Chris during a Serena match. In general I will often switch to ESPN any time Chris is commentating. 

And while I'm bitching about commentating, Brad Gilbert needs to stop trying to make "fear-hand" happen. 

[Darknight]

First player born in the 2000's to win a slam? 

Danii I actually want him to win because I need to hear his victory speech. 

Serena, it's all mental right now. She got into final slams after giving birth but her mind isn't tough in the finals. 

Happy for Canada. 

[Ohwell]

22 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

I have noticed that when Serena loses it's always about how she lost it, she didn't play well, her best, whatever. It's never that the other player was better.

So true.  

I'm not Canadian, but I do think that Bianca should have earned more respect for beating Serena, not to mention to having to deal with the overwhelmingly pro-Serena crowd.   I'm glad Bianca held it together.

[BitterApple]

I agree the commentators are ridiculous. Their comments wax and wane depending on how they want to tell the narrative. Case in point: Federer. They spent all week calling him an ageless wonder; then when he shit the bed against Dmitrov, it was all "Well, he is 38. He's going to have bad days..." I'd argue the excuse making for him is way worse than Serena.

Speaking of which, I agree that whatever's going on with her is mental. She's made it to four Grand Slam finals since having the baby, so obviously she can still hang, but she seems to lose focus on the last day. I do think Bianca played a hell of a match, but Serena definitely wasn't on the level she was during the previous rounds. 

[Ohwell]

I don't know what's going on with Serena and I honestly don't care.  I'm tired of the likes of Evert, Pam Shriver, and Serena's coach sitting in the booth "analyzing" why she didn't win.  Somebody was going to win and it was Bianca; somebody was going to lose and it was Serena.  Sometimes, it's just that simple.

[Harry24]

Listening to Lindsay Davenport do the commentary on the women's final on Tennis Channel was a pleasure.  The ESPN folks are either too wed to whatever the "story" is (all three Chrises and P McEnroe), trying to promote their brand (J McEnroe and Gilbert) or they're a little too bland (MJ Fernandez and Darren C).

Tennis Channel seems to allow the commentary to be more natural.  Martina, Lindsay and Jimmy Arias, though, are the standouts IMO.

[truthaboutluv]

Well this is fun, lol. Though not at all. Medvedev trying to do what only Fognini's done (down two sets and a break against Nadal and come back to win) and wouldn't you know it, it was at the US Open too. Still never recovered from that one.

The thing is though, Rafa was actually not playing great. But he was playing just good enough and Medevedev was making just enough errors for him to get the comfortable lead.

But once he let Medvedev back into the third set and his serve started failing him, it was trouble. Because he started getting tighter. Medevedev is the much calmer player right now and it shows. He's just swinging freely.

Edited September 9, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[Jillibean]

6 hours ago, surreysmum said:

All right, call me an over-sensitive Canadian, but I'd like to see a bit more respect for Bianca in the post-match commentary-verse. Serena didn't lose this match; Bianca won it. She has beaten every top-10 player she's played in the last year. There was no particular reason to suppose she couldn't have at least a very good chance against Serena, who was, let's remember, seeded 8th, not 1st, in this tourney.

Bianca played amazingly well, and the fact that she came out so tough in her first GS final at such a young age is remarkable. She deserves a massive amount of credit and all the accolades. She played a few tough matches and still came out physically ready and mentally ready. She has a very bright future and might very well be tennis’ next big star.

it is ALSO true that Serena didn’t play very well, and because of who Serena is that’s a story. I was very happy for Bianca, and at the same time I was frustrated that Serena couldn’t make this—or any of her finals since her return—competitive. 

THIS match, on the other hand...

[truthaboutluv]

Man, the US Open crowd can't say they didn't get their money's worth with that final. Medvedev sure as hell showed up for his first final. 

Rafa, don't do this to me again. I'm still trying to breathe normally. #19 baby. 

[BlackberryJam]

That was not great tennis, but I’m so glad Rafa won. That was rough.

[Ohwell]

Rafaaaaa!!!!!!!

I know I'm supposed to be a good sport and all and say that Medvedev put up one hell of a fight, which he did.  But he can suck eggs.

[truthaboutluv]

Btw, Jelena needs to take a cue from Medvedev's wife. Girlfriend sat there looking like she was at a boring lecture the whole damn time. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

I feel like both Rafa and Medvedev are going to topple over the second they get to the locker rooms.  I don't know how they are able to stand after that match.

Does anyone every cheer for the referee?  Or was this ref particularly mean?

[truthaboutluv]

4 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Does anyone every cheer for the referee?  Or was this ref particularly mean?

He gave Rafa a third time violation warning when Rafa was serving for the match at 5-2, which was a fault and that cost Rafa the game because he was down a break point and had already served one fault. So the crowd thought it was an unfair way to lose the game.

However, the call was correct and within the rules because Rafa was over the time limit.  Which is why he didn't argue or make a fuss about it. The crowd and his family were more upset and bothered by it than he was.

Edited September 9, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[TVbitch]

You know a match is good when John McEnroe stops talking. 

I was rooting for Daniil so hard, but alas. He did unsettle Rafa, just like he did Dj and Wawrinka. You could see it on Rafa's face. Nice improvement from their first meeting. Good on both of them for giving it absolutely everything. Loved seeing them so respectful, supportive and friendly with each other after the match and during the trophy ceremony. Daniil's speech was charming and funny. Great to see him smiling, and the crowd showing him some love. I was also moved by Rafa's tears. 

All in all, and seeing as I didn't expect much, I'm a very happy customer. 

[halopub]

Ellen sent her show's producer to the US Open:

Youtube: Average Andy at the U.S. Open

Rafa's appearance was my favorite.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I now want Novak/Rafa/Roger to make me a meditation where he tells me how great I am.  

[Rickster]

On 9/8/2019 at 5:09 PM, BitterApple said:

I agree the commentators are ridiculous. Their comments wax and wane depending on how they want to tell the narrative. Case in point: Federer. They spent all week calling him an ageless wonder; then when he shit the bed against Dmitrov, it was all "Well, he is 38. He's going to have bad days..." I'd argue the excuse making for him is way worse than Serena.

Speaking of which, I agree that whatever's going on with her is mental. She's made it to four Grand Slam finals since having the baby, so obviously she can still hang, but she seems to lose focus on the last day. I do think Bianca played a hell of a match, but Serena definitely wasn't on the level she was during the previous rounds. 

I agree about the mental with Serena.

I was talking to my girlfriend during the men’s match yesterday that tennis commentators seem to communicate very little insight about what is actually going on in a match besides vapid psychological comments and reciting stats. Is there nothing more to say?

[BlackberryJam]

Just now watching the end of the Nadal win. I hate the way McEnroe says “cramp” and “cramping.” I don’t know what it is about the inflection and pronunciation, but it bugs.

Medvedev’s speech was appropriately apologetic, self-deprecating and charming. He gained some points with me. He is allowed to make a mistake. Hopefully he learns form this tournament and does better.

[TVbitch]

Med has some humorous and interesting things to say in his post match interview. Also, I couldn't help but notice.... he has lovely feminine hands. Maybe that powder exfoliates. 😄

https://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/interviews/2019-09-08/2019-09-08_interview_daniil_medvedev_final.html

[Ohwell]

I could have excused Medvedev if he had made his apologetic speech two matches before the last one.   To have the speech at the end was him trying to be remembered as "a nice guy who made a mistake."  Not buying it but I guess we'll see if/when he acts like an asshole again and how long it would take him to apologize.   Oh well, at least he's not Kyrgios but that's not saying much.  

But I've given him way too much thought and that's my fault, lol.

[theatremouse]

3 hours ago, Rickster said:

tennis commentators seem to communicate very little insight about what is actually going on in a match besides vapid psychological comments and reciting stats. Is there nothing more to say?

Yes, this has been the poor state of tennis commentating for quite some time. I think the problem is when general sportcasters call a match, they're usually not fluent enough in tennis to do meaningful commentary. They say stuff that's either blatantly obvious to anyone who actually follows tennis or just boring. When most former players call a match, they're literally reacting live and just doing stream of consciousness. There's no analysis. They use words that sound like it SHOULD be analysis, but isn't. If you watch the tide turn in a match - the same person who  a moment ago was saying so-and-so's off their game and just doesn't have it today, will suddenly start saying they knew that had another level to kick it up to. Or they know the people involved too well and sound it.

[BlackberryJam]

What bothers me is that in a tournament they “follow storylines” rather than report on what is happening. Like Coco Gauff. Rather than just reporting on her, they created a ‘storyline’, so they manufacture reports to further that storyline. I understand the goal is to get the viewer to invest by creating a narrative, but it leads to poor insight.

[TVbitch]

I agree @BlackberryJam. And then even when the story isn't panning out, they just immediately shift it to another story. Like Coco... "She is the next big thing! She can stand up against the top players. "She is taking the world by storm." Then before she has even lost her last match... "She is just a regular kid! The pressure is too much! She needs to go back to school and just enjoy being a kid without all this media attention!" 

And Medvedev... "He's a genius! ...He's a villain! ...He's redeemed!"

Unfortunately everything (from a simple cooking contest show to even the 5 o'clock news) is all about hype and storylines these days, so I only see it getting worse. 

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, TVbitch said:

Unfortunately everything (from a simple cooking contest show to even the 5 o'clock news) is all about hype and storylines these days, so I only see it getting worse. 

This exactly and I think that sometimes, if players aren't mentally tough enough, it can hurt them. That's why you see players who had all these expectations just wither away and never deliver on the hype.

Like you, I hate hype and storylines but I know that at the end of the day, it's a business for ESPN and the sports coverage. And hype and storylines sell. But yeah it's why I try not to get caught up in numbers and I never watch these little overly produced packages and stuff. Before the men's final on Sunday, I watched none of that stuff. Just let me see the match and that be it. 

[blackwing]

On 9/8/2019 at 4:09 PM, BitterApple said:

I agree the commentators are ridiculous. Their comments wax and wane depending on how they want to tell the narrative. Case in point: Federer. They spent all week calling him an ageless wonder; then when he shit the bed against Dmitrov, it was all "Well, he is 38. He's going to have bad days..." I'd argue the excuse making for him is way worse than Serena.

Yes.  I loathe the way all the commentators act like Federer walks on water.  I doubt he has any plans to retire any time soon and I'm quite certain they will continue to tongue bathe him.  He's one that I certainly wish would retire.

[truthaboutluv]

So Kim Clijsters is looking to make a return to competitive tennis next year. Hmm, not sure about this. I guess Serena's still competing at a high level at almost 40 has inspired others but the thing is Serena never really went away.

She had her baby, took the normal months to get her body back into competitive shape and then she was back competing. Kim has been off the tour for 7 years and is 36 years old. I mean if that's what she wants, better to go for it and have no regrets but I can't say I have much high hopes for this comeback. 

I do love how you don't see any of the men coming out of retirement. Likely because they all figure it's pointless since they'd only be coming back to lose to Rafa or Federer or Novak. 

eta: Video of Kim announcing her return. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[BitterApple]

Yeah, I think that ship has sailed. The game has advanced so much in seven years. The players are bigger, stronger, faster and hit with more pace. As good of an athlete as Clijsters is, I don't see this lasting.

[Sew Sumi]

I'd lost track of Kim over the years. I didn't realize she had THREE kids. If she was still in her 20's, I'd give her a shot at some decent success. Now?

Good luck, Kim. I still love you, but your ship has sailed.

[truthaboutluv]

10 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I'd lost track of Kim over the years. I didn't realize she had THREE kids. 

Same. I do remember hearing about her having a son after she had her daughter and so I knew about two children. But definitely didn't know about the third. 

In other WTA news, forgot to mention that Halep tweeted that Darren Cahill is back full time on her team. It would be a bigger deal if I felt like he ever actually really left but I don't. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[theatremouse]

Oy they're so up and down.

[Jillibean]

Wow, I love Kim—probably my favorite female player of all time—but this seems like a strange move for her. When she retired the second time, she was battling injuries (as she did for a lot of her career) and she wasn’t looking great. I saw her practice last us open with...Mertens, maybe?...and she can for sure still hit. But it’s hard to believe she’s in competitive match shape, and she was a streaky player at best to start with. 

[BitterApple]

Is it possible she needs the money? I know players make millions of dollars, but that doesn't necessarily mean they invest it wisely. I don't think Kim is married to some bigwig a la Monica Seles or MaryJoe Fernandez, so it may be a factor.

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Is it possible she needs the money? I know players make millions of dollars, but that doesn't necessarily mean they invest it wisely. I don't think Kim is married to some bigwig a la Monica Seles or MaryJoe Fernandez, so it may be a factor.

But I could have sworn she does commentary for one of the European sports networks and that she had started competing on the Legends circuit. Admittedly obviously she would not be making the same kind of money as the Pro tour but I'd be surprised if this is a money situation.

Kim never struck me as the flashy type, so I cannot imagine she blew through money so much that coming back to compete is the only solution. And she definitely had some European/Belgian endorsements that I think she still makes money off even if she's retired, just off her name and legacy in the sport. 

I really think this just may be the desire to compete again, for whatever reason. 

[selkie]

I don't remember if  Kim did much with doubles. Martina Hingis had a pretty god run as a doubles player long after she gave up the singles game, so that could be a pro option. 

[dcalley]

Kim and Venus played an exhibition in May for the Wimbledon Court 1 roof celebration. You can see it here, starting at about 1h15m in. She said she was only asked the day before! After that she played doubles with John McEnroe against Navratilova/J. Murray.