S03.E06: Born Again

[maraleia]

 

Gabriel has surprising information. Elizabeth begins to take family matters into her own hands. Stan receives upsetting news from his past and turns to Sandra for support.

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2uB7pkdwss

[Emme]

Gabriel's surprising information? Maybe (I hope!) it involves Claudia.

[sistermagpie]

You know, I totally disagreed with all theories about Elizabeth using Hans against Paige, but not seeing him again so far again and her being crazy makes the idea less impossible to me.

I also wonder if Gabriel might use Philip's possibly non-existent son as a guilt hammer.

[crgirl412]

So miffed!!   I have to get up really early tomorrow due to probable snowy/icy roads and needing to be at work at 7:00 am and my DVR is messed up again!!  I'm going to have to watch it online again which is no picnic!   

[AimingforYoko]

Watching Gabriel emotionally manipulate two seasoned operatives is highly enjoyable to watch.

[Primetimer]

A newly baptized Paige shoots daggers at Stan's new est girlfriend, takes down her Springsteen poster, and unknowingly gets into the running towards becoming America's Next Top Junior Soviet Spy.

Read the story

[benteen]

Great episode.  I really enjoyed the various interactions and the callbacks to previous episodes.

 

LOL on Philip pulling the God card.  Well done, sir!  Watching him and Elizabeth get high was a lot of fun and you don't often get fun on this show.  Elizabeth might be a true believer but she's still manipulative as hell.

 

That agent seems to be taking a lot of interest in Stan, particularly in his past.

 

The promo for the upcoming episodes looks amazing.

Edited March 5, 2015 by benteen

[Umbelina]

Well, they dodged the sex skillfully, well done!

 

As usual, I'm watching again.  This show is so tense, even Elizabeth and Paige out for a walk is nerve wracking.  SO well done!

[spaceghostess]

 

WHO'S AN UNLIKELY ALLY? Philip, who -- while helping Paige exchange a Bruce Springsteen poster for a Paris one --

Mmm . . . I'm afraid that was a Rick Springfield poster.

[shura]

I've got to remember this trick - if you have to explain something away, it's very useful to include "and some other stuff" in the list of reasons because it can be turned into absolutely anything later on when you've had time to think what this "other stuff" can be. Philip didn't even know his long lost son was real and certainly didn't think of him when he used the "and some other stuff" line on Kimmie!  

 

Fantastic job by Julia Garner, the actress who plays Kimmie, in that scene and throughout the season so far.

Too bad IMDB lists her for only one more episode.

This show really knows how to get amazing actors.

[Umbelina]

I don't even know if the son is real.  That woman seemed like she was lying to him, to me anyway, at the time.  I can't remember what else was going on back then, but I do remember wondering IF and if so, WHY the KGB wanted her to lie to Philip.

 

So?  Maybe it was the truth, maybe not.

[Shriekingeel]

Phillip is so stressed that he can't even come up with a cover story for Kimmie, he has to use thinly disguised autobiography about the people who are on his mind (Paige and Misha).

I'm not sure where they are going with the Callie Thorne character. But if Stan is willing to crudely exploit the death of a friend as an excuse to spend time with Sandra, I doubt that there's any interest.

Ugh. Gregory. A callback to the dopiest scene in the entire series, where Gregory shoots a good dozen cops, all of whom are white, at a time when the DC police force was majority African-American. The scene only makes sense as a dream sequence.

How is Gabriel going to "break" Reagan over South Aftica...only a few months before he wins 49 states?

That preview! Go Paige go!

[Umbelina]

Did that shootout happen in DC, or in one of the adjoining towns?  I need to watch the other two seasons again.

[Sienna]

As awkward and desperate as Stan is about the whole dating-after-divorce thing, who in their right mind would think dinner with two teenagers (or however old Henry is suppose to be by now) is a good first date idea?

I'm still not convinced Misha is really Philip's, or even necessarily exists.

The actress who plays Paige has some of the most beautiful hair I've ever seen.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Sienna

[chocolatine]

Watching Gabriel emotionally manipulate two seasoned operatives is highly enjoyable to watch.

 

"I didn't want to tell you like this" - like hell he didn't!

 

Did we already know that Irina defected? Philip reacted seemingly calmly to the news that she was "finally caught in Brazil and brought home for trial". 

 

I think the born-again Christianity ploy may work for a few more weeks, a few months tops, but then Kimmie's either going to want to have sex or she'll find another guy who'll have sex with her and phase "Jim" out of her life.

 

So Nina is being an opportunist again. It didn't look like she was enjoying the steak dinner with red wine though, the way she was scarfing it down. I'm not sure I quite understood why the information her cellmate shared with her was so damning. I thought it was already known to the KGB that Evie (is that her name?) was set up by her boyfriend, but they were trying to get more info about the boyfriend through Nina. All that we saw Evie say to Nina was that she loved her boyfriend and trusted him. Or was all Nina had to find out that Evie knew *something* about the boyfriend, and the KGB was going to torture the details out of her? Or did Nina just make up a story? I wouldn't put it past her.

 

I think Elizabeth is trying to do too much too fast with Paige. "Mommy smokes. And BTW, she did some illegal stuff with people from a sketchy part of town, before you were born. OK, and after you were born, too."

 

EST lady bores me to death. I want to see more about the new agent. He didn't get to finish telling Martha why the classified files would no longer be in the file robot.

Edited March 5, 2015 by chocolatine

[BW Manilowe]

Misha is the name of the son Philip allegedly had, but never knew, with his Russian girlfriend (Irina?) when/after he went to do his KGB training? I thought it was already established in canon that Misha was Philip's Russian name, & we've never heard the alleged son's name.

Or do we know Irina(?) named the alleged baby for him? Or is Philip just using the name when he's talking to Kimmie about the son "Paul" said he was never there for?

I'm all confused, as you can tell.

As for Henry... The episode where Elizabeth returned home from her stay in the KGB safe house after she was shot (a lengthy visit to a sick aunt, which Philip would be going on with her was, as I remember, the cover story Philip gave at least Stan because he had to ask if the kids could stay with the Beemans--either just for the initial few days after or the whole time she was recuperating) which, I think, was the 1st ep of S2 (I don't think it was the beginning of this season, but I might be wrong), was set on Henry's birthday. If I remember correctly, Henry was 12 (maybe only 11).

So, if that was during last season, Henry should be about a year older, already, this season, since I'd assume his birthday has already passed in this season's timeline. Unless there was a big Soviet "event" of some kind, with a specific date attached to it, that happened around his birthday which we saw in the other ep & we haven't yet hit the same month in this season's timeline.

Sorry if this post is somewhat disjointed--at least the part about Henry's age is. That's what I get for posting so late at night/early in the morning. I tried to make it as comprehensible as possible, & probably royally failed.

[Ellaria]

I think those previews were for upcoming episodes in an effort to goose the horrible ratings, not just the next episode. I don't know how that helps the ratings, unless they expect word of mouth to drive more viewers to the series.

As for Nina, it is hard to have any feelings for her at this point. I get that she had to cozy up to her cellmate and gather info. I don't care how guilt ridden Nina is by that betrayal, I just don't like her.

On to Stan, who seems to be in limbo for like, forever. The writers have really wasted that character. There has to be more going on with Stan than just his social life. I really don't care about who he is dating, or the status of his marriage.

 

Agree that the previews are for upcoming episodes. Hard to believe that all of that is happening in the next episode since the season has been such a slow burn.

 

I really don't care about Nina. I'm not happy that we have seen so little of the rezidentura and Arkady. Oleg has been pushed into some silly story line about "what we will do for love" with Stan.

 

And yes, Stan...I don't care about his love life either. I agree that they are wasting this character. He's probably the most important character after Phil and Liz and, in the last few episodes, we've gotten a poorly conceived first date at the Jennings and the destruction of a diner bathroom. 

 

My only interest in Kimmie is whether Phillip can avoid having sex with her before he gets what he wants. Which is what exactly? Where did the female operative with the earrings come from? Does the Afghan CIA group know that the KGB is on to them? Does the FBI do anything besides discuss the Milky Way defector?

 

Yes, I admit that I didn't like this episode. 

[paulvdb]

My only interest in Kimmie is whether Phillip can avoid having sex with her before he gets what he wants. Which is what exactly?

First it was to place that bug in her father's bag and in this episode we found out that Philip has to switch the tape every week, so he has to continue to see Kimmy as long as the KGB wants to spy on her father.

[Ellaria]

First it was to place that bug in her father's bag and in this episode we found out that Philip has to switch the tape every week, so he has to continue to see Kimmy as long as the KGB wants to spy on her father.

 

Yes, thanks, I understand that. I wish that we were getting more information about what the KGB is going to do with that information. It goes back to my comment about too few scenes in the rezidentura. Along with that, does the CIA suspect? Does the FBI? I would love follow-up on the wonderful scene when they were following Phillip/Elizabeth in their cars. We are getting a very one-sided perspective of this operation - Phillip and Kimmie - because it is a contrast against Paige's story line. I would like to see a broader view...the spy v. spy.

[soapfaninnc]

Phillip is so stressed that he can't even come up with a cover story for Kimmie, he has to use thinly disguised autobiography about the people who are on his mind (Paige and Misha).

I'm not sure where they are going with the Callie Thorne character. But if Stan is willing to crudely exploit the death of a friend as an excuse to spend time with Sandra, I doubt that there's any interest.

Ugh. Gregory. A callback to the dopiest scene in the entire series, where Gregory shoots a good dozen cops, all of whom are white, at a time when the DC police force was majority African-American. The scene only makes sense as a dream sequence.

How is Gabriel going to "break" Reagan over South Aftica...only a few months before he wins 49 states?

That preview! Go Paige go!

Yeah, Liz, you sorta left out that you were having a full blown affair with Gregory. Wait til Paige finds that out. 

 

Phillip was brilliant - in his pointed talk with Paige - which she's sure to remember later on when Mommy Dearest drops the bomb on her about 'who she is', and using Jesus and his lost son with Kimmie. He read the poor girl perfectly - she wanted him to need her. She went for the most obvious physical need first but she's just happy someone needs her. 

 

This whole EST lady with Stan is like filler or something. I hated Nina turning on the cellmate though I see why she had to do it.  Henry - as a lot of posts have said - is the one they should be trying to turn into a spy. Kid is like a dog with a bone when he wants to know something. I was laughing at Paige talking to Elizabeth about prayer and when she informed her mother that both kids knew she smoked. 

 

Old Dracula is a special kind of manipulative evil. He played both of them like chess pieces. Or did he? I'm thinking Phillip smells a rat.

[Chaos Theory]

Stan when a woman asks "where are you?" During sex the correct answer is "here with you." Has EST taught you nothing?

Jesus saves. At least as far as Philip is concerned. Anything keeping him from having to sleep with a 15 year old has its merits.

And Elizbeth and Paige have the talk or start to. Oh yeah this is going to end Well. I don't think Elizabeth has a clear picture of who her daughter is AT ALL.

[TeresaDee]

There was a question upthread regarding the value of the information Nina learned from her cellmate. The woman had been claiming that she had no knowledge of what she was doing when she made the drop, just doing a favor for her boyfriend. She revealed to Nina that she knew exactly what she was doing...but did it anyway for love. Stupid girl, it might cost her her life.

[Marianne]

Phillip is so stressed that he can't even come up with a cover story for Kimmie, he has to use thinly disguised autobiography about the people who are on his mind (Paige and Misha).

Actually, I think Phillip is generally pretty skillful and resourceful.  He thought up the "I have a gift for you in the car" ploy and grabbed the agent's earrings.  And isn't it said that if you are going to lie you should make it as close to the truth as possible?  I thought Philip's using his recent experience with Paige and her church and his own issue surrounding Irina and his son was brilliant, as was Elizabeth's characterization (to Paige) of their activities as "protests."

[shura]

How is Gabriel going to "break" Reagan over South Aftica...only a few months before he wins 49 states?

 

I think that the plan is to expose the CIA as the entity planning a terrorist attack in order to discredit the anti-apartheid movement, which is pretty bad from any possible angle. "Breaking" Reagan is probably more a figure of speech, of course, I don't think Gabriel is hoping to remove him from power over this, but this can seriously damage Reagan's standing in the eyes of the world and within the US as well.

 

Does the FBI do anything besides discuss the Milky Way defector?

 

Tons! There's been a major development this week - the classified files have been removed from the mailbot (or whatever that thing is called). Next week, Aberholt will optimize indoor plant watering schedule. 

 

I wish that we were getting more information about what the KGB is going to do with that information.

 

My guess is, they are hoping to use the info to disrupt the material assistance the CIA is providing to the mujaheddin. If the KGB learns concrete info about supply routes, for example, or even individual weapons shipments, they could do something about that.

 

So Paige is going to start proselytizing now? That's going to be annoying. I wonder why she hasn't tried to convert Henry at all yet, or peak his interest in God or anything like that.

[benteen]

Stan when a woman asks "where are you?" During sex the correct answer is "here with you." Has EST taught you nothing?

Jesus saves. At least as far as Philip is concerned. Anything keeping him from having to sleep with a 15 year old has its merits.

And Elizbeth and Paige have the talk or start to. Oh yeah this is going to end Well. I don't think Elizabeth has a clear picture of who her daughter is AT ALL.

 

Elizabeth doesn't know her daughter at all.  She thinks she does but as someone pointed out a few weeks ago, Elizabeth is more interesting in telling Paige who she (Elizabeth) really is than telling Paige who she (Paige) really is.

[Dev F]

There's been a major development this week - the classified files have been removed from the mailbot (or whatever that thing is called). Next week, Aberholt will optimize indoor plant watering schedule.

 

You joke, but that actually is a significant development. Martha had been stealing the unattended classified files to share with Clark.

 

Speaking of Aderholt, the plane crash that he told Stan about was a real thing that happened in December 1982.

[Tara Ariano]

Mmm . . . I'm afraid that was a Rick Springfield poster.

 

 

ha, whoops! Thank you, I fixed the post.

[Chaos Theory]

You joke, but that actually is a significant development. Martha had been stealing the unattended classified files to share with Clark.

No files no need for Martha. Efficiency is going to be the death of Martha.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[attica]

My favorite scene was Phil & Liz cracking all the way up while they discussed how awesome serving Jesus is. Giggly Rhys is fun. It was a good light moment in a show that is usually pretty dour. (Totally awesome, but not a laff-riot.)

 

I'd rather take a bath (solo or with Rhys- heh) than listen to Pink Floyd too. Why do dudes think that stuff  is an aphrodisiac?

[sistermagpie]

Did we already know that Irina defected? Philip reacted seemingly calmly to the news that she was "finally caught in Brazil and brought home for trial".

 

 

We knew she was running away (not defecting) in the ep with Philip. What's weird is that Gabriel seems to assume Philip would know about that. Philip didn't seem to report her running, so why would Gabriel think that?

 

I still don't by this nonsense about her son she raised in Russia while also being an Illegal in Canada. Of course Gabriel said his name was Mischa. Why wouldn't he be named after the father he never knew? Philip didn't give Kimmie a name for his son. (Certainly he wouldn't tell her the kid's name was Mischa.) Also LOL at his "I didn't want to tell you like this...in a way that's most advantageous to me in getting you to do what I want."

 

I'm not sure I quite understood why the information her cellmate shared with her was so damning. I thought it was already known to the KGB that Evie (is that her name?) was set up by her boyfriend, but they were trying to get more info about the boyfriend through Nina.

 

 

She wasn't set up by the boyfriend. That's what she confessed to Nina and Nina told.

 

Did they ever find that bug that Martha planted? I know it was a long time ago, and not much has been mentioned about it.

 

 

No, they're still using it. But they might find it in future eps.

 

I wish that we were getting more information about what the KGB is going to do with that information. It goes back to my comment about too few scenes in the rezidentura. Along with that, does the CIA suspect? Does the FBI?

 

 

Why would they suspect that guy's house being bugged, I mean from what we've seen? They know the KGB is sniffing around, at least. Presumably the KGB needs to get the info before they know what they'll do with it. (And that might be to let it lie on someone's desk.) They have every reason to believe that Elizabeth got the list of CIA guys working on Afghanistan.

 

How is Gabriel going to "break" Reagan over South Aftica...only a few months before he wins 49 states?

 

 

He's always got to talk as if whatever they're doing is going to be the key to everything.

 

So Paige is going to start proselytizing now? That's going to be annoying. I wonder why she hasn't tried to convert Henry at all yet, or peak his interest in God or anything like that.

 

 

I've started to hope for a Paige/Philip talk about atheism. Elizabeth isn't a good representative because she just believes religion is bad because she was told it was bad. Philip always seems more forgiving of people, he gets that Paige gets something out of her religion, but he's still an atheist. Like when Paige was saying that when you pray you eventually feel a presence I seriously just wanted to play Devil's Advocate there: Yes, Paige, that's how the brain works. 

 

At least Philip was the one person who refused a baptism (Elizabeth had her scene in the tub earlier, Paige has her actual baptism--Philip just says no to a bath with Kimmie). I thought Henry was a little reflection of Philip in this ep. Not exactly the same, but refusing to just drink the Kool Aid everyone was handing out to them--but it's not like Henry was being closed-minded. His questions were honest (unlike Paige who has chosen Christianity and so had a little automatic contempt for EST being compared to a church). But Henry grew up in the US where he can loudly challenge anything he wants. Philip has to be very careful about what he says and even then Gabriel's ominous reporting to Elizabeth that he's "lost faith" in him. Team Faithless! Henry/Philip (and Stan).

 

I liked that Tori actually used the EST nonsense to be pretty smart with Stan. Or at least not stupid. 

[Chaos Theory]

I've started to hope for a Paige/Philip talk about atheism. Elizabeth isn't a good representative because she just believes religion is bad because she was told it was bad. Philip always seems more forgiving of people, he gets that Paige gets something out of her religion, but he's still an atheist. Like when Paige was saying that when you pray you eventually feel a presence I seriously just wanted to play Devil's Advocate there: Yes, Paige, that's how the brain works.

At least Philip was the one person who refused a baptism (Elizabeth had her scene in the tub earlier, Paige has her actual baptism--Philip just says no to a bath with Kimmie). I thought Henry was a little reflection of Philip in this ep. Not exactly the same, but refusing to just drink the Kool Aid everyone was handing out to them--but it's not like Henry was being closed-minded. His questions were honest (unlike Paige who has chosen Christianity and so had a little automatic contempt for EST being compared to a church). But Henry grew up in the US where he can loudly challenge anything he wants. Philip has to be very careful about what he says and even then Gabriel's ominous reporting to Elizabeth that he's "lost faith" in him. Team Faithless! Henry/Philip (and Stan).

I liked that Tori actually used the EST nonsense to be pretty smart with Stan. Or at least not stupid.

I think this season is in large part about extremism..any extremism and how they all are pretty much the same. It would be interesting of Paige took the Religious extremism because that would put a pretty big snag in the plan to recruit her in the big communist spy plot. Plus it would really make thing awkward for the very atheist parents....fun family dinners. Edited March 5, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[Loandbehold]

Frank Langella really is doing tremendous work as Gabriel. With Philip, if his son doesn't really exist, he's using what Irina told Philip to try to convince him to do the deed with Kimmie. And, if the son does exist, he's just threatened to pretty much have the son sent to some horrible jail, even though he's a good soldier and true believer. Either way, Philip knows he's screwed.

 

And, Matthew Rhys plays Philip's conundrum perfectly. His quick thinking about both the earring gift and the power of prayer were brilliant.

 

I'm surprised that Philip hasn't told Elizabeth that revealing their secret wouldn't be telling Paige "who she is," but rather, "where she comes from." With the trip to the poorer section of town, Elizabeth has begun setting Paige on that journey, but she's going to have to move even faster in order to satisfy Gabriel and Centre. It likely won't go well, but she, like Philip and Kimmie, is in tough spot. She is a true believer, but she's not clueless. Her heart and her head are fighting over how to convert Paige.

 

Nina did get the girl to confess that she knew what she was doing. When she got her reward, she scarfed it down because she had only been getting bread and water, and she didn't want to risk having them take away the food before she could finish it all.

[Latverian Diplomat]

Yes, thanks, I understand that. I wish that we were getting more information about what the KGB is going to do with that information.

Well Gabriel asserts that the Mujaheddin can't do anything without US assistance and guidance. Whether that's true or not, it's a sign that the KGB clearly thinks the office conversations of the head of the CIA's Afghanistan team will have lots of military information.

 

Actually, I think Phillip is generally pretty skillful and resourceful.  He thought up the "I have a gift for you in the car" ploy and grabbed the agent's earrings.  And isn't it said that if you are going to lie you should make it as close to the truth as possible?  I thought Philip's using his recent experience with Paige and her church and his own issue surrounding Irina and his son was brilliant, as was Elizabeth's characterization (to Paige) of their activities as "protests."

 

I'd rather take a bath (solo or with Rhys- heh) than listen to Pink Floyd too. Why do dudes think that stuff  is an aphrodisiac?

Philip was resourceful, but he did have a plan, which was to get Kimmy so blissed out she was too stoned to move, since this was the strategy that worked for him the time before. (And bonus, with the headphones on wouldn't hear the agent come in and work on the briefcase). Pink Floyd was his means to that end, not a way to get in her pants. She didn't go for it, which is why he spent the rest of the evening improvising.

 

I liked that Tori actually used the EST nonsense to be pretty smart with Stan. Or at least not stupid. 

Good people can pull good things out of even the most ridiculous belief system. That's one thing that keeps many religions going.

 

I had the distinct impression that Paige has already received "warnings" about EST in youth group. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by Latverian Diplomat

[Ellaria]

Old Dracula is a special kind of manipulative evil. He played both of them like chess pieces. Or did he? I'm thinking Phillip smells a rat.

 

Yes, he is masterful old pro and he is playing them.

 

My guess is, they are hoping to use the info to disrupt the material assistance the CIA is providing to the mujaheddin. If the KGB learns concrete info about supply routes, for example, or even individual weapons shipments, they could do something about that.

 

Why would they suspect that guy's house being bugged, I mean from what we've seen? They know the KGB is sniffing around, at least. Presumably the KGB needs to get the info before they know what they'll do with it. (And that might be to let it lie on someone's desk.) They have every reason to believe that Elizabeth got the list of CIA guys working on Afghanistan.

 

 

I don't have an answer as to what the CIA or FBI knows or doesn't know or what they plan to do. I found the story more compelling when we knew that these other organizations were working to thwart them or at least trying to. The absence of an "opposing force" (if you will) detracts from the story...for me, anyway. Perhaps we will have to agree to disagree. Multiple scenes of Philip sneaking around Kimmie's house or Elizabeth in the car with the young operative don't resonate as strongly for me without seeing what the "other side" is also doing. As of late, we see that there are conversations about the mail robot.

[attica]

Pink Floyd was his means to that end, not a way to get in her pants.

 

I know that; my rhetorical question had only to do with my own experiences with the Floyd.

[kikaha]

 

How is Gabriel going to "break" Reagan over South Aftica...only a few months before he wins 49 states?

They hoped the scandal would cost Reagan the election. 

 

 

I'd rather take a bath (solo or with Rhys- heh) than listen to Pink Floyd too. Why do dudes think that stuff  is an aphrodisiac?

 

He doesn't want an aphrodisiac. Just the opposite.  He desperately is trying to NOT sleep with her. 

[shura]

We knew she was running away (not defecting) in the ep with Philip. What's weird is that Gabriel seems to assume Philip would know about that. Philip didn't seem to report her running, so why would Gabriel think that?

 

I'm sure the KGB got Irina to tell them about her talk with Philip, that's how Gabriel knows that Philip knew of her plans. 

[RazzleberryPie]

This may have been the best episode of the season. Stan was even interesting LOL.

 

The tug of war over making Paige a spy, Gabriel's manipulation of both Elizabeth and Philip - and them not realizing it , Elizabeth realizing Paige isn't as naive as she thinks, and that they really are a lot alike (both stubborn and dedicated to a 'higher cause', Philip masterfully buying more time with not seducing Kimmie.

 

Nina and the Belgian should be more interesting, but it isn't. Nina will do whatever she needs to get out of there, so I was expecting a full betrayal without much remorse. Not that she owed that girl anything or had any relationship with her. I like the actress, but not the role.

 

I haven't decided if Gabriel invented Philip's son with Irina, or if there is a real son.

 

Stan, Stan, Stan, I've personally seen several high powered men get bored with marriage, have a mid life crisis/affair that didn't work out (usually bc the fling got bored and they got caught), then seeing in hindsight how good their marriage was and having divorce remorse. This is Stan. This storyline is far more realistic than then super spy stuff, so I actually like a bit of normalcy thrown in with the rest of it.

[sistermagpie]

Multiple scenes of Philip sneaking around Kimmie's house or Elizabeth in the car with the young operative don't resonate as strongly for me without seeing what the "other side" is also doing. As of late, we see that there are conversations about the mail robot.

 

Ah, I see. That makes sense.

 

I'm sure the KGB got Irina to tell them about her talk with Philip, that's how Gabriel knows that Philip knew of her plans.

 

 

But that's a big deal if Philip knew about her plans and didn't tell them and Gabriel didn't seem to act like Philip was in trouble for this. Gabriel's acting like it's general knowledge that everyone knew she had run. (Personally I don't buy she ever ran anywhere.)

 

The tug of war over making Paige a spy, Gabriel's manipulation of both Elizabeth and Philip - and them not realizing it , Elizabeth realizing Paige isn't as naive as she thinks, and that they really are a lot alike (both stubborn and dedicated to a 'higher cause', Philip masterfully buying more time with not seducing Kimmie.

 

 

I think Philip does realize it to some extent. It doesn't make him immune to it, but I think he gets that Gabriel is just interested in Philip doing what he wants.

 

I haven't decided if Gabriel invented Philip's son with Irina, or if there is a real son.

 

 

Whether or not he's real, he existed (if only fictionally) before Gabriel mentioned him. Irina told the story to Philip in S1 (and he wasn't sure it was real or not).

[Bannon]

Yes, thanks, I understand that. I wish that we were getting more information about what the KGB is going to do with that information. It goes back to my comment about too few scenes in the rezidentura. Along with that, does the CIA suspect? Does the FBI? I would love follow-up on the wonderful scene when they were following Phillip/Elizabeth in their cars. We are getting a very one-sided perspective of this operation - Phillip and Kimmie - because it is a contrast against Paige's story line. I would like to see a broader view...the spy v. spy.

They really can't do that, because it is completely preposterous that the CIA doesn't know that their Afghan group is completely blown, given the maner in which P & E escaped the dragnet around them. 

This may have been the best episode of the season. Stan was even interesting LOL.

 

The tug of war over making Paige a spy, Gabriel's manipulation of both Elizabeth and Philip - and them not realizing it , Elizabeth realizing Paige isn't as naive as she thinks, and that they really are a lot alike (both stubborn and dedicated to a 'higher cause', Philip masterfully buying more time with not seducing Kimmie.

 

Nina and the Belgian should be more interesting, but it isn't. Nina will do whatever she needs to get out of there, so I was expecting a full betrayal without much remorse. Not that she owed that girl anything or had any relationship with her. I like the actress, but not the role.

 

I haven't decided if Gabriel invented Philip's son with Irina, or if there is a real son.

 

Stan, Stan, Stan, I've personally seen several high powered men get bored with marriage, have a mid life crisis/affair that didn't work out (usually bc the fling got bored and they got caught), then seeing in hindsight how good their marriage was and having divorce remorse. This is Stan. This storyline is far more realistic than then super spy stuff, so I actually like a bit of normalcy thrown in with the rest of it.

The problem is that Stan was only high powered briefly, in season 1. Since then, he's just been kind of a dope, on and off the job. That makes him uninteresting, and it is an error to have an uninteresting character on the screen so much.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Bannon

[Shriekingeel]

As I've said before, Stan is supposed to be the Javert/Hank Schrader of the show, so the show needs him. But they went too far with the pathos.

[shura]

But that's a big deal if Philip knew about her plans and didn't tell them and Gabriel didn't seem to act like Philip was in trouble for this. Gabriel's acting like it's general knowledge that everyone knew she had run. (Personally I don't buy she ever ran anywhere.)

 

Maybe it was general knowledge, I'm picturing the old KGB grapevine and such. Seriously though, if she did run, I assume there might have been some investigation and someone (Claudia?) might have told Philip about her escape and asked him whether he knew anything. Maybe that's why he is not in trouble for knowing, Gabriel just doesn't know that Philip knew about it in advance. And if Irina did, in fact, tell Philip the truth about her plans, maybe she told him the truth about the son too, after all.

[Bannon]

As I've said before, Stan is supposed to be the Javert/Hank Schrader of the show, so the show needs him. But they went too far with the pathos.

Hank was a really good DEA agent, with other admirable qualities to go along with ones which were less so. He had real complexity. Stan? He sucks at his job, he sucks in his relationship wth his family, he's pretty devoid of a sense of humor, and he gets a huge amount of screen time. Just a real fundamental error in the way the show is written.

[RazzleberryPie]

Multiple scenes of Philip sneaking around Kimmie's house or Elizabeth in the car with the young operative don't resonate as strongly for me without seeing what the "other side" is also doing. As of late, we see that there are conversations about the mail robot.

 

Ah, I see. That makes sense.

 

But that's a big deal if Philip knew about her plans and didn't tell them and Gabriel didn't seem to act like Philip was in trouble for this. Gabriel's acting like it's general knowledge that everyone knew she had run. (Personally I don't buy she ever ran anywhere.)

 

 

I think Philip does realize it to some extent. It doesn't make him immune to it, but I think he gets that Gabriel is just interested in Philip doing what he wants.

 

 

Whether or not he's real, he existed (if only fictionally) before Gabriel mentioned him. Irina told the story to Philip in S1 (and he wasn't sure it was real or not).

Ahh thx for clarification. I saw S1 hit or miss and need to watch the whole thing.

[Latverian Diplomat]

I know that; my rhetorical question had only to do with my own experiences with the Floyd.

Fair enough. All the more reason to respect Philip's choice. He has skills. Or maybe there was a KGB briefing memo on the subject:

 

"It is a common belief among American males that 'Pink Floyd' is an excellent choice for musical accompaniment to seduction. Our extensive field trials have shown this not to be true. Our standard recommendation remains the music of Sam Cooke or Barry White."  :-)

[pagooey]

I'd rather take a bath (solo or with Rhys- heh) than listen to Pink Floyd too. Why do dudes think that stuff  is an aphrodisiac?

Heh. I'm an Old--a couple years younger than Paige--and one of my first dates, still comfortably within the 80s, was to a Laser Floyd show at the local IMAX...so I have a bit of a soft spot. It seemed pretty sex-ay at the time! Also my date was far more age-appropriate, so there was a lot of hot, hot hand-holding.

[Umbelina]

I think the born-again Christianity ploy may work for a few more weeks, a few months tops, but then Kimmie's either going to want to have sex or she'll find another guy who'll have sex with her and phase "Jim" out of her life.

 

I think it could work for a long time really.  I don't actually believe that Kimmy is THAT horny.  She wants to be loved.  So Philip could easily string this out with a secret engagement, and staying pure until Kimmy is 18 and they can marry.  He's good.

 

I'm still not sure if I believe the Irina defected story.  I know I didn't believe it the first time, I felt like she was sent in to test Philip's loyalty, tempt him to defect with her, and see if he would bite.  The son?  Maybe.  Using something real when running a scam is often a good thing to do. 

 

 

Old Dracula is a special kind of manipulative evil. He played both of them like chess pieces. Or did he? I'm thinking Phillip smells a rat.

 

Oh, me too, and he is perfect in that role.  Perfection.  I wouldn't trust him for a second, and I don't think Philip really does either.

 

Elizabeth is blowing it with Paige.  Big time.  What's to stop Paige from talking to the minister about all of that information?  Scary line she's walking there, but that's another example of the constant tension in this show.  I feel it in almost every scene, and that's quite an accomplishment.

[sistermagpie]

I think it could work for a long time really.  I don't actually believe that Kimmy is THAT horny.  She wants to be loved.  So Philip could easily string this out with a secret engagement, and staying pure until Kimmy is 18 and they can marry.  He's good.

 

 

Watching it I first thought that Kimmie would totally lose interest in the Jesus stuff. But then he did a turnaround (I can't stop thinking about you!) and wedded it to the story of wanting to be a good daddy and yeah, now Kimmie has a way of feeling that she's special to Jim without proof through sex. 

 

And good on Philip for doing it after Gabriel pretty much ordered him to sleep with her. Pastor Tim says that Paige getting baptized is the most radical thing she's done, but Philip's actually being really radical here, in his way. Elizabeth gets pushed by Gabriel, goes out and starts working on Paige like he said. Philip goes out and...fuck you, Gabriel! He starts praying! It's a small thing, but it's kind of clearly Philip trying to take some sort of stand here.

 

I'm still not sure if I believe the Irina defected story.  I know I didn't believe it the first time, I felt like she was sent in to test Philip's loyalty, tempt him to defect with her, and see if he would bite.  The son?  Maybe.  Using something real when running a scam is often a good thing to do.

 

 

I hate the Irina story so much. It makes no damn sense. And the more you think about it the less sense it makes.

[AllyB]

Speaking of Aderholt, the plane crash that he told Stan about was a real thing that happened in December 1982.

In that case it's a week to Christmas. Would there really have been no festive decorations anywhere? I know Christmas wasn't as ott 30+ years ago but I was just turned 4 and I remember our tree being up a week already at that point. Did decorations go up later in America?