Spoilers and Discussion

[Sara2009]

That would have more comedy potential than Rachel in the Mr Shue role.

It would also take us back to the early days of Rachel and Mr. Schue, but this time with more underlying affection.

[heyerchick]

Didn't Becky graduate and get a college place?

[ShadowDenizen]

Yes. But it won't matter. She'll be back.

 

I'd be careful.
Like Bloody Mary, if you say her name too many times, she'll appear!

 

And nag you to death.

 

[caracas1914]

AP: What the latest with 'Glee'?

Lynch: We're going into a sixth season. I think it's going to be half a season. I think we're going back to McKinley High. I think. I don't know any of this for sure. But that's the word on the street.

/////////

Be very afraid.

[Hana Chan]

I'm saying it now... nothing for next season has been decided with any finality. Not the number of episodes, when those episodes might air or when production is due to start. The lack of any confirmation from TPTB (and they would have to know just how critical it is to have some concrete news in order to salvage what remains of Glee's buzz) and the two most high profile actors on the show doing other things this summer around the time when they would normally be in LA to start pre-production and publicity) is really damning evidence of just how bad things are BTS. I'll bet anything that FOX is playing hardball since the show runners don't have an iota of credibility left and the longer this goes on, the fewer episodes will be ordered.

 

In the meantime, the last is left in limbo. For Chris and Lea it's not that big deal. Both of them certainly have enough to keep them busy and have enough in the way of prospects to keep them busy in the interim. Darren ad Chord, on the other hand, are probably praying that they still have their day jobs come fall.

[Pink ranger]

From a publicity point of view it makes sense for them to schedule the final week of filming in early to mid January to generate maximum buzz for a mid season premier. Last season they started filming on Monday August 5th and after a production break after Cory's tribute filming for the celebratory 5x12-513 fell within this time period so depending on how many episodes are ordered for the final season I think that production will commence again at some point in August.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Pink ranger

[caracas1914]

The only reason they started filming so late in August last year was due to Cory's death.

As to a mid season premiere creating buzz, that remains to be seen how much promo FOX is willing to spend on it, and exactly when and on what night Glee will air. If it's buried on Friday night I doubt much buzz will be generated.

[Hana Chan]

Looking at this strictly from a business perspective (which is how I imagine FOX is), spending money to promote Glee makes little sense. Not with the ratings Glee was pulling last season. Networks don't have unlimited funds and what they have they'll spend on the shows that are pulling in ratings (and big advertising dollars). The days of Glee doing that are long over. Not when its getting ratings lower than shows on the CW. FOX can and could decided to pull the plug completely at this stage.

 

It also doesn't help that Glee is a very expensive show to films. Besides paying the cast and crew (and we can't forget how the noobs were elevated to regulars last season and got paid even though they were cut out of the last 7 episodes), they've got to pay for the rights for the songs that they perform weekly, as well as rental of auditoriums and theaters for things like the competition episodes, as well as the big name guest stars that they like to trot out. All of that is likely to be drastically scaled back.

 

As far as promo is concerned, the only episode that I can see FOX willing to spend any money to promote will be the series finale and even that is going to be far less than they would if Glee was pulling in moderately decent ratings. To be frank, anything that Glee gets at this point is going to be a gift because FOX could certainly decide not to take any new episodes at all if RIB push too hard.

[Pink ranger]

I mainly referring to the "unofficial" promo that the cast and crew will do on social media. During the 100/101 episodes the cast tweeted and posted pictures multiple times everyday.

FOX also did splashed a bit on two events the cake cutting and the cast/crew party. I am sure that they will do something to mark the end of the series.

[caracas1914]

I"m sure whenever they do end the series there will be some social media and photo taking, etc.   I just don't think at this point FOX cares enough to schedule the end of shooting specifically around mid January to take advantage of maximum buzz.  They are probably trying to cut their losses as opposed to trying to promote Glee as far as production  scheduling and timing the ending.

Edited June 19, 2014 by caracas1914

[tom87]

(and we can't forget how the noobs were elevated to regulars last season and got paid even though they were cut out of the last 7 episodes)

 

Do we know that though?  They may have only been guarateed a certain amount. 

[Hana Chan]

Generally when you are a regular in a series, you get paid for the season. If your name is listed in the credits, you get a check cut. Lea, Chris and Naya got paid for all the episodes that they didn't appear in during season 4, and got paid full salary for the episodes where they only had a single scene or one or two lines.

 

With the noobs, they had a contract for the season. The show could have exercised their rights to fire them, but they'd still have to be paid for the remainder of the contract (or at least accept a buy out for the remainder of the contract). This is basic with entertainment contracts. Even given that the noobs were more than likely paid a fraction of what the original cast would command, it was still money wasted.

 

FOX also did splashed a bit on two events the cake cutting and the cast/crew party. I am sure that they will do something to mark the end of the series.

 

They didn't this season. There was no real send off the way they've done in the past. I think there was an informal dinner with Lea, Chord, Darren and the crew (Chris didn't attend), but no proper end of season party. It's one thing to celebrate the close of a successful season. It's another when the ratings have gone straight into the toilet the way they did in season 5. That wasn't so much a celebration as a wake.

[caracas1914]

Mike O' Malley was promoted to a Regular after Season One (?)  and I think he only came out half a dozen times, if that, in Season Two.  I hardly think that means he  got paid X number of dollars for the 16-18 episodes he did not appear in. 

 

There may be a minimum number of episodes a regular is paid for and will get paid regardless in a season, but other than that, I don't think that Glee regulars like Amber, Mark, and Harry in Season 4 got the same amount of money in Season 4 that they got in Season 3 when they appeared in virtually all the episodes.

 

MY guess is the Noobs were going to be paid for 13 episodes minimum during the season, whether they were on screen or not.   Regular status ensure the show is your contractual obligation, not that you are guaranteed to literally come out in every episode.

 

As a Regular your name appears in the credits regardless, but I think maybe only a handful of Glee Regulars, namely, Lea and Chris, get paid whether they appear in an episode or not.

 

Season 6 I have no idea if Chris will miss anywhere from 4-6 weeks for his outside movie how Glee would handle that.

Edited June 19, 2014 by caracas1914

[tom87]

Jane has never appeared in all 22 epsidoes as season either.  I would  not be surprised if all/most of them by season 4 had a limit on the number of episodes they would be paid for...   The one exception maybe Lea and possibly Chris.   Ryan even said Lea at one point was the only one he knew would be in all 22 episodes in season 4 yet that didn't even happen. 

 

To me budget wise it would make sense to pencil in all the regulars in at 22 epsidoes but only contract the main actors  for 16-18, the secondary  regulars 12-16 and special regulars like Mike 4-6.  

Edited June 19, 2014 by tom87

[dizzyizzy01]

If the show used their name in the credits, than the actor as paid.  This is a standard obligation in union contracts.  This is done so that shows/producers can't take advantage of talent to use their name to promote a show and than not pay them.  However, the new cast was probably given SAG minimums, which is probably not a ton of money in the larger budget, but it is still a waste. Also, I'm willing to bet that the producers did structure their deals to be a specific number of episodes and not the full 22 episode season.

[fakeempress]

 

Generally when you are a regular in a series, you get paid for the season. If your name is listed in the credits, you get a check cut. Lea, Chris and Naya got paid for all the episodes that they didn't appear in during season 4, and got paid full salary for the episodes where they only had a single scene or one or two lines.

I think the regulars have guaranteed episode commitment that can change from season to season, depending on their contracts. They are paid for each of these guaranteed # of episodes regardless of whether they appear in them or not. But their commitment may be for less than the full season # of episodes, e.g. 20 out of 22/24, I tdon't think a regular means you automatically get paid for all episodes of the season. Depends on the regulars' budget the production has and what episode commitment they get. At least that's my understanding.  I think Chris mentioned before the start of S4 that he may not appear in all the episodes, but in most - I took it to mean his episode commitment for the season was somewhat reduced. This may happen in S6 as well. 

[caracas1914]

I don't think a regular means you automatically get paid for all episodes of the season.

 

Say the show negotiates with a regular a minimum of 10 appearances for the year, and it's 25,000 per episode.  That is a grand total of $ 250,00 for the television season.  The way I understand it is that they are on the hook for those $ 250,000 even if the Regular does not appear on that many episodes.  IF they appear in more than those 10 episode, they will get $25,000 per more.

 

In a 22 episode season, while the show may list the Regular for the 12 episodes they did not appear in, I don't think it means the show is obligated to pay them $ 25,000/per  for all 22 episodes of the season, whether they appear or not.

 

Now as to the accounting, for all I know they can spread those $ 250,000 over the course of all 22 episodes, but it's really payment for the work of 10 episodes.  Of course it could work out to something like $11,000 per episode (in a 22 episode total)  if they do that, so in that sense they are paid "regardless".  Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited June 20, 2014 by caracas1914

[tom87]

Say the show negotiates with a regular a minimum of 10 appearances for the year, and it's 25,000 per episode.  That is a grand total of $ 250,00 for the television season.  The way I understand it is that they are on the hook for those $ 250,000 even if the Regular does not appear on that many episodes.  IF they appear in more than those 10 episode, they will get $25,000 per more.

 

In a 22 episode season, while the show may list the Regular for the 12 episodes they did not appear in, I don't think it means the show is obligated to pay them $ 25,000/per  for all 22 episodes of the season, whether they appear or not.

 

Now as to the accounting, for all I know they can spread those $ 250,000 over the course of all 22 episodes, but it's really payment for the work of 10 episodes.  Of course it could work out to something like $11,000 per episode (in a 22 episode total)  if they do that, so in that sense they are paid "regardless".  Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I have always seen it written as "paid per episode", not a amount for the season.   

[camussie]

Caracas has it right.  It is both.  If someone is a regular in a cast they will be listed in the credits for the entire season and they will have a guaranteed salary for that season but that guaranteed salary will be based on the number of episodes a show thinks they will use that cast member in.  If the show uses them in more than that the cast member will get more than their guaranteed salary, usually calculated per episode.  If the show uses them less they will still get their guaranteed salary.

 

For example, the 5 newbies were cast members for all of season 5 but their salaries were based on Glee saying we will use you for 13 episodes.  If McKinley had not gone away in 513 those 5 would have been paid additional salaries for each episode they appeared in.  That tells me that, while Fox was on-board with RM's" keep McKinley until the end "plans when they gave Glee a two season renewal, the ONE thing they did to hedge their bets was to structure the newbies' contracts so that their salaries were based just 13 episodes worth of work.  That way, if they decided to go down to one narrative, they would save some money and if they didn't all they had to do was pay for the additional episodes worth of work.

 

That also tells me as far back as last June (when those contracts were handed out), those in charge were planning on 512/513 to be an inflection point one way or another.  I still think that when Fox/RM and Matt Morrison came to an agreement  to let him leave in season 5 (a decision it seems was made sometime in the spring of 2013)  that was when they decided 2 things - the 100 would be a tribute to Will as he decided to move on from McKinley and related to that, that is when the extended year would end.   RM seemed to think McKinley would continue to be around after that inflection point.  Fox seemed to be on board with that plan BUT they also hedged their bets just a little, in case they wanted to make changes.

• Then Cory passed and they were still considering keeping McKinley so the offer to let Matt leave was taken off the table until they figured out the direction of the show (i.e. keep McKinley or not)
• Then ratings tanked and they decided to shut down the McKinley narrative so it seems that Matt ended up getting to leave (at least for the remainder of season 5, save for one guest appearance) after all. 
• Then the show bottomed out and Fox's only involvement seems to be getting Glee down to as few episodes as possible and washing their hands of the mess after doing that. That leaves RM and team to do whatever they want (which is why we are back to split narratives and then McKinley), albeit in a lot fewer episodes and with a lot less budget.  

Edited June 21, 2014 by camussie

[heyerchick]

TV Line: Glee Bosses Reveal Final Season Theme, Confirm 'There Will Be a Lot Going On In Lima'

 

Series co-creator Ryan Murphy told TVLine at Thursday’s Critics Choice Television Awards (where he was honored with the Louis XIII Genius Award) that the show will shift back to its original conceit in Season 6.

“We’re working on the last season now, and it really feels like it’s getting back to its roots, which I love,” he shared. “I’m sort of reinvigorated about it. It’s getting back to what I was initially interested in with the show, which was arts in school. The last season is really about the importance of arts education in our high schools… I think people will like it.”

Murphy’s quotes — as well as fellow EP Brad Falchuk’s assertion to TVLine that “there will be a lot going on in Lima” in Season 6 — all but confirms speculation that much of the action will once again take place at McKinley High.

 

[caracas1914]

http://tvline.com/2014/06/20/glee-season-6-setting-lima-mckinley-spoilers/

Glee is going old school in its final season.

Series co-creator Ryan Murphy told TVLine at Thursday’s Critics Choice Television Awards (where he washonored with the Louis XIII Genius Award) that the show will shift back to its original conceit in Season 6.

“We’re working on the last season now, and it really feels like it’s getting back to its roots, which I love,” he shared. “I’m sort of reinvigorated about it. It’s getting back to what I was initially interested in with the show, which was arts in school. The last season is really about the importance of arts education in our high schools… I think people will like it.”

RELATED | Glee Boss Ryan Murphy Takes Us Inside the ‘Painful’ Rachel Romance Debate

Murphy’s quotes — as well as fellow EP Brad Falchuk’s assertion to TVLine that “there will be a lot going on in Lima” in Season 6 — all but confirms speculation that much of the action will once again take place at McKinley High.

Murphy, meanwhile, admitted that he “sort of stepped away from Glee a little bit” last season to focus on directing HBO’s The Normal Heart. Cory Monteith’s death also made working on the show challenging. “To be honest with you, my heart kind of broke a little bit,” he conceded. “It was very difficult, not just for me, but for everybody.” (Additional reporting by Scott Huver)

[heyerchick]

Season Sux, y'all.

[caracas1914]

Since none of the younger cast are left in high school or choir, does this mean they are all left as mentors/teachers/props to a whole new bunch of noobs?

How do you get emotionally invested in a new bunch of kids if the older cast are not performing the numbers?

There are only so many times they can show all the cast as 2.0 Wills to new choir clubs. It certainly lost its sheen in Season 4 with the grads mentoring the HS kids and with Finn as the new quasi director, plus again, they have to somehow flesh out all these choir groups which takes focus away from the leading characters.

What a road kill mess.

And yes, this probably means more and more Becky.

Edited June 20, 2014 by caracas1914

[carefree]

 

It’s getting back to what I was initially interested in with the show, which was arts in school.

 

Which is why we had the tired Sue V Glee battle every other week? Or so it seemed. Is it also why Glee Club was folded in S5 so we could be bored to tears by some of the dreariest storylines ever? Where you even managed to make New York City itself boring by virtue of being the backdrop for this charade? Are we going to have more retreads of the stock storylines and characters reduced to one characteristic because your writing team are even more bored than the general audience? And so on but he's got another plaudit celebrating his "genius" so I doubt he cares about anyone's displeasure. 

 

I gleefully, pun intended, look forward to the spiralling downward trend of audience numbers leaving in droves. Because at this juncture, all I can do is thank the show for introducing me to some of my favourite cast members and that's about it. I gave the show up in S4 but there's a tiny part of me that remembers how much joy the show gave me and like a fool, I keep hoping against hope that it might gave me it again. 

[caracas1914]

It’s getting back to what I was initially interested in with the show, which was arts in school.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a show that focuses on performing arts in schools, that problem is that that was what Glee originally was and the showrunners didn't have the self discipline to keep it focused there the first time around.

 

It got overrun by romantic triangles, losing virginity storylines, and Sue versus Will feuds, etc,  in a perpetual groundhog day at High School.  It was getting weary seeing that with the original cast, was much worse with the 2.0 noobs, and will be beyond depressing to have the older graduated cast doomed to repeat the HS shenanigans in a nightmare  "Lima loser" limbo where this time they  are now not  the performers despite having the choir room being thrust again as the "heart and soul" of the show.

 

What a clusterfuck.

NO surprise, Ryan Murphy is typically  chicken shit taking cover with Cory's death.

He was a "father" to Cory and now it was Cory's death why the show didn't work in Season 5.

 

Far be it for Ryan's shitty "brilliant"  idea of Noobs as the new stars come to light as a big factor for the fail.

Edited June 21, 2014 by caracas1914

[carefree]

It won't ever be what it once was. Just tune in to the series finale to satisfy any curiosity you may have.

 

Oh, I know. I don't expect it to be. I've dipped in and out since making the decision to drop it, because characters I've always loved have returned, and each time it absolutely flabbergasts me that anyone still tunes in. Objectively, I know Glee wasn't all that even when it was at its peak but there was something worth returning for and I was one of those people who watched 'Popular' when it was on so being let down by Ryan Murphy isn't a new experience either. 

 

NO surprise, Ryan Murphy is typically  chicken shit taking cover with Cory's death.

He was a "father" to Cory and now it was Cory's death why the show didn't work in Season 5.

 

Far be it for Ryan's shitty "brilliant"  idea of Noobs as the new stars come to light as a big factor for the fail.

I hate that he keeps bringing Cory up as a shield to deflect his own awful shortcomings with the show but like Glee itself, he makes it up as he goes along, even the facts don't add up with what he's saying. Trying to make Glee Degrassi 2.0 was never going to happen, however adamantly he believes it should have been. 

[CleoCaesar]

There are only so many times they can show all the cast as 2.0 Wills to new choir clubs. It certainly lost its sheen in Season 4 with the grads mentoring the HS kids and with Finn as the new quasi director, plus again, they have to somehow flesh out all these choir groups which takes focus away from the leading characters.

What a road kill mess.

And yes, this probably means more and more Becky.

 

 

I seriously cannot believe (except I totally can) how RM is hiding his failure(s) behind Cory's death. The show would still be shit even if he were alive and outlived us all. Douchecanoe.

[tom87]

Cory's death does not explain season 4s failure.   It doesn't explan taking the focus off the proven characters. It doesn't  explain the extended school year or the focus on Sam and Blaine. It doesn't explain the weak use of the other graduates. It doesn't explain the lack of NY devlepoment.

 

Ryan just having arts in school does not show its importance.   Showing how the arts has supported and enriched their lives would be much better.  You should have had the original group take different paths.   Sure show Rachel actually working for Bway, show how she matured and was a team player even when someone else got the  big part over her how she keep  moving on until it was her turn.     Show Kurt using his individuality he was afford cause the glee club accepted him for  who he was as he designed outlandish costumes.   Have Quinn become a  psychologist because of the things over came and the guidance and support she was given.  Show Tina become a Professor with a big voice cause she over came her shyness.    Show Santana become a lawyer  who  can show compassion for her clients but is cut throat  in court room.

 

The arts helps people even if they do not become performers. 

 

Also the choir room only worked due to the group of people that where in it.   It was painfully obvious in season 4 the choir  room was obsolete because the people who singing and dancing there it did not resonate with the majority.

Edited June 21, 2014 by tom87

[whack-a-mole]

This went terribly wrong.

[Scarlett45]

I really can't believe Glee has stooped to this level. I thought moving to NYC and showing the old cast "making their way" as unrealistic as it might have been was the best way to end the show on a positive note. I naively THOUGHT moving the narrative to NYC would allow the show to save a little face.

RM blaming Corey's death for two seasons worth of crap is so wrong.

[Anna Yolei]

Is RM planning a career in a glue factory after this show is over? 'Cuz he excels at beating dead horses.

 

The NYC stuff after New New York was only slightly more tolerable than what came before because of the talents of the actors. And as someone said upthread, showing the importance of arts in school need not take all of them ending up in or near the Broadway scene/music industry. Finn being a mentor was actually one of the few decision in season four that was grounded in some kind of not entire fail (at least before Will flipped shit about Finn kissing Emma).

 

Well, the only thin I'm looking forward to is seeing record low ratings that even the defunct UPN would have been embarrassed of.

 

This went terribly wrong.

 

Can I nominate this as the official title of the season six thread?

[ShadowDenizen]

I think the show could have survived gettnig rid of the Cor Characters and bringing in new ones. (Look at Grey's Anatomy!)

It's all in how you handle it (or if the network LETS you handle it.)

 

Heroes was supposed to be an anthology series, but rather than letting it be that, TPTB insisted on keeping the same cast. (Of course, Heroes has way more problems than that, inlcuding their over-reliance on Sylar and continous revamping/retconning of the existing storylines.

 

(As an aside. that's also my fear withn the new Star Wars movie. That people are SO excited about the Old Cast that they can't get as excited for the new cast (whihc are SUPPOSED to be the focus of the new trilogy.)

[Coxfires]

I think the show could have survived gettnig rid of the Cor Characters and bringing in new ones. (Look at Grey's Anatomy!)

It's all in how you handle it (or if the network LETS you handle it.)

 

I feel like we are beating a dead horse over and over again. Honestly, it  doesn't matter wether they should have kept the original cast or not, simply because the writing sucks and no actor can save that. RIB and co. were unable to create fresh and new characters, so any newbie was toast from Day 1, and their vision for the remaining cast didn't go further than "Rachel is the biggest star EVAH, but she has to learn her lesson each and every episode, and we'll see what we do of the other characters". No character was granted any kind of story-arc on mutliple episodes (beyond the stupid feud that led nowhere), consistency was MIA, the music choices were boring and repetitive, no inventivity was shown when it came to peiring characters... So, definitely, it wasn't a case of whose actor to keep or not, it is just a case of incompetent storytelling/storywriting.

 

I wonder if RIB really think the crap they pitched us for S6 is going to attract anyone, or if they are trying to see how low ratings can get without being cancelled. Anyone planning to watch?

Edited June 23, 2014 by Coxfires

[ShadowDenizen]

Yes, RIB have been driving this show into the ground since S2 with the atrocious writing and stories.

 

But I think the noobs get a bit too much of the blame for that decline; other than a few standouts like Chris and Lea, the Noobs were on-par (acting-wise) with the S1 cast.  And (as Coxfires mentioned above) it would take an uber-talented thespian to make anything worthwhile out of the drivel that RIB had them sling.

 

(Though, to be fair, I think Alex and Ryder both tried their damndest to make that "Catfishing" storyline even semi-plausible. And Becca also tried her best to make Kitty more than 1-dimensinal Quinn-clone.)

 

Which is why I hope the Noobs return (even in a small capacity) in S6.

[jaytee1812]

 

Which is why I hope the Noobs return (even in a small capacity) in S6.

 

I'm torn with both the noobs and the alumni who weren't kept on as regulars. I'd like to see them again, as they were some of my favourite characters and performers. But I fear their characters would be further assassinated and I would be embarrassed for the actors working on those scripts. 

[Hana Chan]

The McKinely storyline was hampered by several things, and comparisons to the original cast was the least of their issues. I'll grant that being compared to Lea, Cory and Chris didn't do the noobs any good at all (nor did it help the effort of trying to make Darren, Heather and Chord into leads), but the biggest problem was the recycling of storylines that had already been done multiple times. How many times can we sit through ND going through the competition cycle without it losing any shred of drama (especially given that ND almost always wins against other far superior groups). Then we get dances/proms with the usual nonsense over who's going to be prom queen. They even recycled the prom queen gets trashed storyline (done far better the first time around with Kurt). And apparently at McKinley, only members of ND are qualified for prom queen/student body president/valedictorian or anyting else. Even the tribute episodes were recycled, and awful copies of what was done before.

 

The one thing that the NY storyline really had going for it was the chance to really do something different. College/conservatory/adult life was a wide open field that they could have explored, but because RM was so set on trying to keep McKinley relevent and make the noobs happen, we barely scratched the surface. The idea that you could have Kurt and Santana in NY and not have them go to one gay bar before they had the group outing after Rachel's debut was idiotic. Rather than fast fowarding Rachel to stardom, they could have started her in the bottom rungs of the theater world and have her claw her way to the top. Let them start having adult realtionships and not forever be tied to their high school sweethearts (all of which were left behind for very good reasons). Let them figure out their lives and reassessing their aspriations. Shoving graduated characters who made it their life's mission to escape Ohio returning is beyond insulting to the audience who've been following them from the start.

[caracas1914]

I think the show could have survived gettnig rid of the Core Characters and bringing in new ones. (Look at Grey's Anatomy!)

 

 

Grey's Anatomy doesn't fit the mold.

 

They didn't get rid of the core lead  characters of "Greys Anatomy"  for the first five/six years of the show.  (if we are counting Izzie and George who left after seasons 5 and 6)  They introduced new characters and eventually retired out some (the actor who was accused of homophobia was an exception, he was out after 2 or 3 years IIRC),  Meredith, Derek, Baily, Christina were all leads  for over 9 years.

 

Why do we keep  beating a dead horse about "precedence"  when there is ZERO history of network TV show  voluntarily by choice  replacing all the lead characters after 3 seasons.   IN terms of screen time, Lea, Chris, and Cory were not the top screen time characters in Season 4.  No one has yet shown a comparable show where show runners fucked up that badly.

Edited June 23, 2014 by caracas1914

[jaytee1812]

Why do we keep  beating a dead horse about "precedence"  when there is ZERO history of network TV show  voluntarily by choice  replacing all the lead characters after 3 seasons.   IN terms of screen time, Lea, Chris, and Cory were not the top screen time characters in Season 4.  No one has yet shown a comparable show where show runners fucked up that badly.

 

There doesn't have to be precedent for something to work. 

 

The only reason season 4/5 didn't do as well were dire scripts.

[Pink ranger]

E.R might be a better example. It did a great job IMO of gradually rotating its cast through 15 seasons ! One of their biggest stars George Clooney for example left after season 5.

[tom87]

But that is a huge differance still to what glee did.

 

It didn't just have 1 or 2 people leave it had 8 people gone for the most part.

 

It had it 3 biggest leads diligated to 5/6 mintues of screen time and absent 3 + episode.

 

If ER got rid George, Anthony Edwards, Julainana Margulies, Noah WIley, Eric LaSalle, Sherry Stringfeild all at once after seoasn 3 would it have worked? 

Edited June 23, 2014 by tom87

[jaytee1812]

But that is a huge differance still to what glee did.

 

It didn't just have 1 or 2 people leave it had 8 people gone for the most part, 5 .

 

This. 

 

What I will never get is how they suddenly change everything at the end of season 3. From day one they knew these characters had a limited shelf life in a school setting why not have graduating characters every year and new members joining at the start of every season.

[tom87]

Ian once said they made a mistake by making Rachel a sophomore in the pilot. So they were even unprepared then.   But why not fix it and recon it?  They made her bday Dec 1994 in the first season meaning she was 14/15 the first season the age of a freshman.

 

They could have had some throw away line like Mr Shue saying Rachel you are a freashman why did you say you were a sophomre to me when glee first started.  Oh Mr Shue I was trying to convey the urgency I had to get glee  succesful sooner than later. 

 

Or they could have just past over ti an pretended they were all freshman . I mean they past over what her dads actually looked  like in the pilot why not the one sophmore line?

[Pink ranger]

But ER demonstrates that a rotating cast structure CAN work effectively on a major prime time network show which is what I though the discussion was about.

What Glee attempted worked out awfully of course, we are witnessing the outcome right now but if they had started graduating out lower tire cast members in seasons 1 and 2 and introduce stong talents gradually into the cast as ER did the story could very well be different now,

[dizzyizzy01]

But ER demonstrates that a rotating cast structure CAN work effectively on a major prime time network show which is what I though the discussion was about.

 

 

True, but I don't think even ER did it by choice.  I'm pretty sure those cast members wanted to leave the show, and I'm pretty sure the major cast members didn't all leave at the same time only after 3 seasons.  It was always one or two at a time and very gradually over time.

RIB voluntarily dropped half the existing cast with what appeared to be no real planning behind it.  That decision along with the atrocious writing quite obviously killed the show and drove away the audience.

[Kromm]

So how do you make a bad thing even worse?

 

A bullshit "full circle" plotline.

 

I imagine the master plan is to have Rachel's career crash and burn and have her forced to go back to McKinley and take a low paying non-degree holding job somehow as a fill-in Shue?  Didn't Finn already get to do that?

[camussie]

I seriously doubt Rachel's career will ever crash and burn.  Nothing in the writing since she got that second bite at the apple for an audition at NYADA tells me Rachel will crash and burn. Not to mention RM flat out called her a Supernova who will always end up on top.  I still say she has untold success in Hollywood but in the end finds it hollow and voluntarily returns to Lima to either re-charge before she takes on Broadway again  or for good.

Edited June 24, 2014 by camussie

[Hana Chan]

Rachel finding that the career she'd been steered towards her entire life isn't fulfilling could be an interesting story if it's told properly. I've believed for a long time that Rachel's dreams were engineered and encouraged by her fathers (rather than discovering a love for performing on her own) and it could make sense that she isn't really happy with the realities of the entertainment industry, whether we're talking about Broadway or Hollywood. I've always felt that she's been motivated by the acclamation and not performing itself (the old "I need applause to live" bit) so Rachel finding that the whole thing doesn't make her happy could make sense.

 

The problem is this show and these writers. There is no chance of them handling this properly.

[tom87]

Rachel also said   NY vs LA was that NY was about the work not about the work you have done.

 

Yes they have made jokes about her dads but if that was really a point then we should have seen her dads pushing her at every competiton or at the very least fighting with Mr Shue when he  gave her defying gravity then making her do a diva off for it.   But since they have never really shown us seriousily that she was pushed by her fathers instead of supported by her fathers,  doing that now to sell her sudden disillusionment of show biz would seem like a cop out to me.

 

If this had remained a black  comedy that route could have been interesting. 

Edited June 24, 2014 by tom87

[caracas1914]

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/24/jane-lynch-glee-series-finale/

Why am I not surprised? They are bringing the Warblers back.

[dizzyizzy01]

 

They are bringing the Warblers back.

I want a thumbs down button.