S03.E05: Salang Pass

[Umbelina]

Cool, post soviet union spy though! 

 

I loved this part:
 

Chapman wrote a column for Komsomolskaya Pravda. In October 2011 she was accused of plagiarizing material on Alexander Pushkin from a book by Kremlin spin-doctor Oleg Matveychev.[35] The Guardian reported that this incident added to a general negative trend toward her in certain sections of Russian society, saying that in September 2011, she had been "heckled during a speech on leadership at a St. Petersburg University". Students had, it said, displayed signs stating: "Chapman, get out of the university!" and "The Kremlin and the porn studio are in the other direction!"[35]

 

 

In 2012 it was reported that Chapman almost caught a senior member of U.S. President Barack Obama's cabinet in a honeytrap operation; this was said to be a primary motive behind the move to round up the ten-person spy ring in which she was a member. The plan would have involved Chapman seducing her target before extracting information from him or her.[37]

Reports surfaced in 2014 alleging that Chapman tried to seduce whistleblower Edward Snowden on orders from the Kremlin, according to a defector Boris Karpichkov, a former KGB agent.[38]

 

[dr pepper]

All the attention on current russian spies makes me wonder. The soviet system was so fractal. Every level of government was a copy of the top, each with its own soviet, its own ministries, bureaucrats, party functionaries, military, and yes its own KGB. I like to think that somewhere in Moscow there was an agency tasked with ensuring that everyone got their fair share of dissidents as well. Anyway, post breakup,most of these structures survived. We keep hearing, well the KGB changed its name to the FSB. Well the part that went with Russia did. But Belarus, Georgia, Azerbaijan, etc all had KGBs too, I'd like to hear what they're doing.

[benteen]

I don't think Elizabeth could go back to Russia.  A friend of mine was saying this.  I think the fall of the Soviet Union will be devastating to her (if she loves that long), knowing her long work was for nothing.  She might choose death instead.  Not that Philip wouldn't be hard hit by the fall of the Soviet Unioni but as long as the kids were okay (and perhaps with him) he could definitely move on with his life.

 

I agree that the actress who played Kimmie was excellent in the garden scene.  One question...did she say her birth mother was dead?

Edited February 27, 2015 by benteen

[sistermagpie]

I agree that the actress who played Kimmie was excellent in the garden scene.  One question...did she say her birth mother was dead?

 

 

Yes, she said she was dead.

[shura]

Trip scheduling and guidance for US citizens at Intourist. I still want to see Stan go to Moscow around 1992. He walks up to traveller's aid desk and-- "Hey, neighbor!".

 

Later they all get smashed together at the bar of the Bolshoi Theater.

 

You know, I really think I would love to see something like that. There is sort of a real life precedent, a story of a US pilot shot down over Yugoslavia and how he tracks down and becomes friends with the Serb officer who shot him down. This could really be done well.

 

I don't think Elizabeth could go back to Russia.  A friend of mine was saying this.  I think the fall of the Soviet Union will be devastating to her (if she loves that long), knowing her long work was for nothing.  She might choose death instead.

 

Depends on whether Elizabeth is in it for the ideology or for the Motherland. You are probably right, she is more of an ideologue than a patriot. It is funny, Philip and Elizabeth got sent to the US in what, the early 60s, and they (or, at least, Elizabeth) still think that way, conserved in time, if you will. In the 80s, most people in the Soviet Union could not care less about the ideology and the promises of this great future anymore. You can kind of see it in the rezidentura - those people, having come from the USSR recently enough, are just doing a job, not necessarily believing. But Elizabeth is thinking like it's still 1953.

[BW Manilowe]

Well it makes sense now why Kimmie is attracted to older men. Looking for a father figure. Luckily for her Phillip views her like his daughter and I don't think will take advantage of her. I felt so bad for Kimmie after she explained what her home life is like now.

Really disturbing to see what Phillip had to go through in "training". Makes me wonder what elizabeth was put through

I don't think Phillip is completely using Stan. I do think he views him as a friend. In fact I think Phillip enjoys being with stan, even though he is in the FBI, because he for the most part does not have to "act" like a character around him and he is not trying to put anything over on Stan. He would certainly use any information he can gain from him, but there is no need for a blatant con or a long con on Stan, he can just be his friend and whatever comes of it is fine, he does not have to work any angle, use Stan in any way and Phillip does not have to be someone he is not.

Responding to the bolded section, specifically about Elizabeth (who was then Nadezhda, still; I don't think they became "Elizabeth Jennings" & "Philip Jennings" until the meeting where they first met before being sent to the US, where they were told they could no longer speak--or be--Russian at all, & that they could only speak English & think of themselves as Philip & Elizabeth Jennings, (eventual travel agency owners) from the good old red, white, & blue USA!

Anyway... Among other things (as I'm fairly sure has been said upthread), Elizabeth was raped during training, & pretty brutally too as I remember, by an Instructor I think she greatly respected (which made it all the worse). The attacker figured fairly prominently in the Pilot. We also eventually saw the attack in an ep, in flashback, but I can't remember if it was in the Pilot, later in S1, or in S2.

If I remember things correctly (not having a copy of the Pilot to go by), the first mission we saw them on had to do--at least in part--with getting the attacker to some rendezvous point so he could either get back to the USSR or defect here. That got botched; Philip & Elizabeth's fellow "fake American" operative on the mission ended up stabbed & in a hospital, where he later died; Elizabeth eventually told Philip the guy raped her (he may have already known the guy was 1 of her Instructors; I forget), & the rapist ended up dead. I think Philip killed him, at least partially in retaliation for attacking young Elizabeth, but I'm not sure I'm remembering that right. And the rapist ended up stuffed in the Jennings' car trunk for a couple of days at some point, while he was still alive. I also seem to remember Elizabeth yelling at him, & maybe yanking him from the trunk & kicking the shit out of him, while he was trapped in their garage (since the mission to get rid of him was botched, they were stuck with nowhere else to put him while they were waiting for an alternate plan), over what he did to her. But I might be wrong about that too.

About the time I think I remember Elizabeth's attacker disappearing, that's when Stan came home from the White Supremacists & started nosing around the Jennings' garage, because his FBI office got a report about either the dead fellow "fake American" or Elizabeth's missing/dead Instructor/rapist, & that report tied a car like the Jennings' (where the bad guy was still stuck) to whatever got reported. But Philip was able, eventually, to draw Stan' s suspicions away from their car & to begin befriending him.

That's what happened to Elizabeth in training (& what happened to her, & others, resulting from it), that we know about so far. (Well, you did ask, & I can't remember if you said you saw S1 or not; sorry if I was repetitive)

[magdalene]

 

With Paige in a gulag for spouting Christian rhetoric and Henry hiding his Levis smuggling operation.

I think though when they get caught they will be separated from their children who after all are American citizens. After they get deported back to the motherland they will never see their children again. Like what happened to this real life spy couple.

[benteen]

Yes, she said she was dead.

 

That's what I thought.  Because I noticed she also said during the garden scene something to the effect of "when my little brother and sister used to be around."  That gave me the impression that they were also dead.  Maybe they died with the mother in a car crash?

[Dev F]

That's what I thought.  Because I noticed she also said during the garden scene something to the effect of "when my little brother and sister used to be around."  That gave me the impression that they were also dead.  Maybe they died with the mother in a car crash?

 

Did she say her brother and sister were younger? Maybe I misheard, but my impression was that they weren't around because they were older and off at college or something. Kimmy definitely reads like the baby of the family to me.

[chocolatine]

Thank you to everyone who answered my question about the baptism dress. My main exposure to Christianity was in northwest Germany, where 75% of the Christians are Catholic, hence my impression that a white dress would be mandatory.

 

Now that I've had some time to think about the episode, I'm becoming suspicious that Lisa just accepted all of her sudden good fortune without questioning anything. I mean, Elizabeth's AA alter ego is supposed to be working class, so how does she have a mother who, in addition to nursing home costs, can afford to keep a house without renting it out or putting it on the market? Also, since Lisa works in a job that requires security clearance, wouldn't it have been hammered into her not to tell anyone anything about her work (and wouldn't she have signed an NDA)? She seemed to just take it in stride that Elizabeth, supposedly also employed by a government contractor, was giving information to some "consultant" for money. I think the twist may be that it's not Stan or someone else in the FBI that will be P&E's downfall, but Lisa, a lowly assembly line worker.

 

ETA: Some of you guys are lamenting the lack of YAZ in this episode, but we did get treated to "I Ran" by A Flock Of Seagulls. That should count for something, no?

 

ETA++:

 

(Mama said the only time she wished she had been back in Lithuania before The Fall was when the people pulled down this huge statue of Lenin that had been standing in the middle of an otherwise beautiful central Vilnius park. She wanted to help pull him down with her own hands and had to settle for watching it on TV in America.)

 

 

PinkRibbons, I think every Soviet has their own "dismantling of Lenin statues" experience. My school had a bust of him in profile hanging on a wall. After the bust was taken down, you could still see the outline of it on the white paint of the wall, and there was no doubt about whose profile it was. The school either had no money or couldn't be bothered to put a fresh coat of paint on the wall, so I felt Lenin's "shadow" haunt me until my family left the country in 1991.

Edited February 27, 2015 by chocolatine

[CarpeDiem54]

Now that I've had some time to think about the episode, I'm becoming suspicious that Lisa just accepted all of her sudden good fortune without questioning anything. I mean, Elizabeth's AA alter ego is supposed to be working class, so how does she have a mother who, in addition to nursing home costs, can afford to keep a house without renting it out or putting it on the market? Also, since Lisa works in a job that requires security clearance, wouldn't it have been hammered into her not to tell anyone anything about her work (and wouldn't she have signed an NDA)? She seemed to just take it in stride that Elizabeth, supposedly also employed by a government contractor, was giving information to some "consultant" for money. I think the twist may be that it's not Stan or someone else in the FBI that will be P&E's downfall, but Lisa, a lowly assembly line worker.

 

ETA: Some of you guys are lamenting the lack of YAZ in this episode, but we did get treated to "I Ran" by A Flock Of Seagulls. That should count for something, no?

Good point about how nice that house was. I was expecting something much more small and dingy. I also thought "Michelle" and Lisa were exchanging too much information about their jobs.

I loved hearing A Flock of Seagulls! I remember seeing them in concert. I've never heard of Yaz so that stuff last week meant nothing.

[DrSpaceman]

Responding to the bolded section, specifically about Elizabeth (who was then Nadezhda, still; I don't think they became "Elizabeth Jennings" & "Philip Jennings" until the meeting where they first met before being sent to the US, where they were told they could no longer speak--or be--Russian at all, & that they could only speak English & think of themselves as Philip & Elizabeth Jennings, (eventual travel agency owners) from the good old red, white, & blue USA!

Anyway... Among other things (as I'm fairly sure has been said upthread), Elizabeth was raped during training, & pretty brutally too as I remember, by an Instructor I think she greatly respected (which made it all the worse). The attacker figured fairly prominently in the Pilot. We also eventually saw the attack in an ep, in flashback, but I can't remember if it was in the Pilot, later in S1, or in S2.

If I remember things correctly (not having a copy of the Pilot to go by), the first mission we saw them on had to do--at least in part--with getting the attacker to some rendezvous point so he could either get back to the USSR or defect here. That got botched; Philip & Elizabeth's fellow "fake American" operative on the mission ended up stabbed & in a hospital, where he later died; Elizabeth eventually told Philip the guy raped her (he may have already known the guy was 1 of her Instructors; I forget), & the rapist ended up dead. I think Philip killed him, at least partially in retaliation for attacking young Elizabeth, but I'm not sure I'm remembering that right. And the rapist ended up stuffed in the Jennings' car trunk for a couple of days at some point, while he was still alive. I also seem to remember Elizabeth yelling at him, & maybe yanking him from the trunk & kicking the shit out of him, while he was trapped in their garage (since the mission to get rid of him was botched, they were stuck with nowhere else to put him while they were waiting for an alternate plan), over what he did to her. But I might be wrong about that too.

About the time I think I remember Elizabeth's attacker disappearing, that's when Stan came home from the White Supremacists & started nosing around the Jennings' garage, because his FBI office got a report about either the dead fellow "fake American" or Elizabeth's missing/dead Instructor/rapist, & that report tied a car like the Jennings' (where the bad guy was still stuck) to whatever got reported. But Philip was able, eventually, to draw Stan' s suspicions away from their car & to begin befriending him.

That's what happened to Elizabeth in training (& what happened to her, & others, resulting from it), that we know about so far. (Well, you did ask, & I can't remember if you said you saw S1 or not; sorry if I was repetitive)

 

 

Yes that pretty well summarizes the pilot and I recall all that including the rape. 

 

But I guess I should have specified what I mean specifically was what happened to Elizabeth during the equivelant "sexual training", or whatever you want to call it.  I didn't get the impression the rape was part of it, that was a rogue agent/government member I think taking advantage of elizabeth for his own personal satisfaction. 

 

The fact Phillip asked Elizabeth about this special training during the episode and the way she responded implies the rape was not part of this and their was equivelant things the females go through as well. 

[DrSpaceman]

Did she say her brother and sister were younger? Maybe I misheard, but my impression was that they weren't around because they were older and off at college or something. Kimmy definitely reads like the baby of the family to me.

 

 

The way she said it made me think he brother and sister had died, but they don't really clarify what she means by "not around", if that means they died, or left home or went off to college, it was left vague. 

 

I am not sure why Phillip would have to sleep with Kimmy and I think it would be a dumb move.  I know this is a couple that has murdered many people, so arguing about avoiding crimes seems a bit ridiculous, but they confirmed she is only 15 I think (she can't drive for several months, I assume the driving age in DC at the time was 16) and that makes it statutory rape if he does do it.  It doesn't seem to be necessary for him to sleep with her either.  He just has to get back in her house again when she is alone, which seems easy because she is always alone at home, at least that is implied by her story tonight, and plant the bug.  Doesn't have to sleep with her to do that.  For them to commit all these crimes and then have one of his alternative personas possibly be picked up on a statutory rape charge if someone finds out, when he doesn't even really need to have sex with her, just string her along a bit longer, would seem like a completely stupid move. 

[TeresaDee]

Matthew Rhys & showrunners Joel Fields & Joe Weisberg discuss this episode in this week's podcast. Click this Tweet link to get to the podcast link (which is in the linked Tweet):

https://twitter.com/theamericansfx/status/571023701921046529

This was great, thanks so much for the link!

[Bannon]

I didn't know that the ratings were so poor, but I, like a previous poster stated, don't need s character to "root" for. Elizabeth is a villain, it seems obvious to me, and the point is to make her an interesting villain. I agree that the FBI characters are written poorly, and that is the show's largest weakness; it really harms dramatic tension when one side of the adversarial relationship being portrayed is comprised of lamebrains. The concept of the show has so much potential; I hope it isn't completely squandered.

[RedHawk]

All of those people that saw Kimmie with Philip most likely would have cackled like hens long before now, and presumably an adult or teacher would know about it.  This isn't the type of thing that is ever kept quiet.

 

 

It was a different time, and it wasn't that unusual to see younger girls with older guys. The other high school kids who see Kimmie with Jim just shrug it off most likely, or tease her about it later. They probably think he's her dealer. What have they really seen? She's hanging out and chatting with some older guy. They don't know he went to her home. They're not going to run to a teacher and say something, and they aren't likely to say anything where a teacher might overhear.

 

My two friends who dated teachers in high school kept it quiet until they married the guys after graduation. Some of their friends knew, and we kept quiet because it was understood that the teachers could lose their jobs. I think a teacher or two who knew the guys well likely caught on, but they didn't make an issue of it.

Edited February 27, 2015 by RedHawk

[soapfaninnc]

It was a different time, and it wasn't that unusual to see younger girls with older guys. The other high school kids who see Kimmie with Jim just shrug it off most likely, or tease her about it later. They probably think he's her dealer. What have they really seen? She's hanging out and chatting with some older guy. They don't know he went to her home. They're not going to run to a teacher and say something, and they aren't likely to say anything where a teacher might overhear.

 

My two friends who dated teachers in high school kept it quiet until they married the guys after graduation. Some of their friends knew, and we kept quiet because it was understood that the teachers could lose their jobs. I think a teacher or two who knew the guys well likely caught on, but they didn't make an issue of it.

 

Yup, I graduated High School in 85 and these type of relationships were not uncommon. That being said, this storyline is making me uncomfortable - maybe its because I'm older and a parent myself. I don't know.

 

For all my complaints about Elizabeth, I find a lot to like in this show. It does a fairly good job of giving us a snapshot of what life was like in the 80's. But I was around Paige's age at the same point in history and was raised by an atheist with communist leanings and I turned out to be the polar opposite. I think that's why this is going to blow up in the Center's faces in a major way. 

 

I was 'allowed' to attend church but it wasn't worth it to hear the 'deprogramming' afterwards. I don't think Elizabeth and Phillip talking to Paige about their dislike for religion before now would have seemed out of place back then. 

[sistermagpie]

Depends on whether Elizabeth is in it for the ideology or for the Motherland. You are probably right, she is more of an ideologue than a patriot

 

 

Though she wouldn't be any happier in the US either.

 

Because I noticed she also said during the garden scene something to the effect of "when my little brother and sister used to be around."  That gave me the impression that they were also dead.  Maybe they died with the mother in a car crash?

 

 

She said her brother and sister--I got the impression they were older and had now simply moved out. If they were dead I think she'd have said they were dead not imply they're just not around. That line specifically indicates they're doing stuff but don't come into contact with her much. They're like her father--they have their own lives and don't have time to focus on her.

 

But I guess I should have specified what I mean specifically was what happened to Elizabeth during the equivelant "sexual training", or whatever you want to call it.  I didn't get the impression the rape was part of it, that was a rogue agent/government member I think taking advantage of elizabeth for his own personal satisfaction.

 

 

Yes, there's never been any indication--though many people have read it that way--that the rape was supposed to be part of her training. Timoshev said it was just a perk for him. Sure they probably figured that it wouldn't hurt for her to have to deal with that to see if she could handle that sort of thing--she'd be going into danger anyway and rape would be a risk. But her rape wasn't the equivalent of Philip's mandatory sexual encounters. Presumably for that Elizabeth just had to get used to having sex with men and women like he did, only as a woman there were things about it that were different.

 

It doesn't seem to be necessary for him to sleep with her either.  He just has to get back in her house again when she is alone, which seems easy because she is always alone at home, at least that is implied by her story tonight, and plant the bug.  Doesn't have to sleep with her to do that.

 

 

The idea is that he's not just getting into her house twice and planting a bug, but is going to run her as an asset. So he's using his relationship to this guy's daughter in multiple ways. This is meant to be a longterm arrangement lasting into her adulthood, presumably. So Gabriel's saying that he feels the relationship needs to be consummated in some way--if she's in love with him she's tied to him, has reasons to do things for him.

 

So the question is, can Philip get the same results just by being her friend and a father figure? Maybe. I think he'd like it. But the sex does have its advantages. Philip's not Pastor Tim with a defined, legitimate role in the teenager's life that the teenager is looking for like Paige looks for it in Pastor Tim (and which would change when she's no longer youth group age). Kimmie's looking for somebody who belongs to her and cares about her in a special way and for her, at the age she is, this means he'd be her boyfriend. That's what she thinks she's looking for, and even the things Philip does that to me read as dad rather than boyfriend just get her more interested in that.

 

Given how absolutely horrible the ratings are for this show, apparently I am not the only one that is having issues with the shows current direction.  I think the show is done after this season, and I think the writers should have seen this coming.

 

 

I really don't think that's the issue with the ratings. The show is interested in the things it's interested in and not everyone is interested in that so the ratings have always been low. The FBI coming across as smarter would change a very small portion of the show, because it's just not about the espionage plots. The people who like the show--like critics--love the current direction. And while that audience is small, it's very passionate. 

[Blakeston]

I agree with this 100%, but let's stop and observe that in this episode Elizabeth dropped a car on a 100% innocent person.  Are we still rooting for her?

Personally, I root for Philip and Elizabeth not to get caught, but that's usually about it. I regularly root for their targets to get the hell away from them.

Elizabeth's been ordered to get information on the F-117 Stealth bomber, and has been told it is a top priority (it was top priority because a stealthy bomber was a critical element for NATO destroying bridges in Eastern Europe, to impede the movement of greatly numerically superior Soviet tanks, if NATO and the Warsaw Pact ever engaged in all-out war), and getting her AA / Northrup friend transferred into the plant, to work on F-117 fuselage assembly, is thus top priority. Elizabeth is completely ruthless, and willing to kill nearly anybody, if her superiors tell her a mission is top priority, and she determines that killing a person is the best option for getting that priority checked off. She needed an opening at the Northrup F-117 assembly team. She scouted out somebody on that team to kill, saw an easy opportunity, and took it.

 

Given her willingness to serve up Paige to the ugly world of espionage, I wouldn't rule out Elizabeth being willing to kill her children, if given a set of circumstances which suggested that doing so would obviously serve a critical need of the Soviet State. The context of Soviet culture really needs to be understood here. The show takes  place only 30 years removed from the death of Stalin, when it was quite common for children to be encouraged to inform on parents, leading to the parents being sent to the gulag, or even murdered by the state. That's the formative environment that created Elizabeth. Anyone in close proximity to her, who isn't as ideologically committed as she is to the Soviet State (or even if they are, if they disagree on tactics, and defy Soviet leadership), is a potential target for deadly violence. She's as frightening a major character as I've seen in dramatic television.

There's no question that Elizabeth is scary, but I think her "Eh, I'll just kill him" approach to the Northrop guy is a bit different from what we've seen of her in the past.

She's killed innocent people before (like the police officer in season 1 who was questioning her about why she was parked in that rich neighborhood.) But it hasn't been her style to intentionally kill innocent people when her back isn't against the wall.

And we've seen her express some level of discomfort over the prospect of taking the lives of innocents. In the second episode of the series, she seemed pretty unhappy that she might have to let the maid's son die.

What I guess I'm saying is, I have no problem believing Elizabeth is willing to kill for the cause. But this seemed cold even for her.

[Bannon]

 The people who like the show--like critics--love the current direction. And while that audience is small, it's very passionate. 

 

 

The problem isn't just that audience is small; it is that the audience is rapidly shrinking....

 

http://headlineplanet.com/home/2015/02/26/ratings-fxs-the-americans-sinks-to-another-series-low/

 

Critical acclaim can help, but there has to be somebody besides a few hundred thousand other people watching it.

[PinkRibbons]

It is possible Elizabeth didn't kill the guy under the car but just seriously injured him. I seem to recall her scouting him out and hearing him talk to someone in the house; possibly that someone might have heard the thud and been able to get an ambulance there in time. That would open up a position in the factory while he was convalescing or going on workman's comp.

 

Not that I think Elizabeth wouldn't kill him if she felt it necessary though.

[ChromaKelly]

When Philip asked Elizabeth if he should sleep with Kimmy and she said I don't know, I took that to mean Philip sees how far gone Elizabeth is, if she actually thinks sleeping with a 15 year old is an acceptable thing to do for the cause. I think this, combined the Paige issue, is going to be what pushes him over the edge. He already seems to be questioning everything.
I have been enjoying this season so far. It's disappointing to hear that the ratings are down. Maybe this show gets more DVR/streaming viewers, who knows.

[Haleth]

It is possible Elizabeth didn't kill the guy under the car but just seriously injured him. I seem to recall her scouting him out and hearing him talk to someone in the house; possibly that someone might have heard the thud and been able to get an ambulance there in time. That would open up a position in the factory while he was convalescing or going on workman's comp.

 

Not that I think Elizabeth wouldn't kill him if she felt it necessary though.

I dunno.  That pool of blood suggests that the guy was pretty dead.

 

I have no one to root for.

 

It's funny but I find myself rooting for Oleg.  I'm hoping that in order to get the US to trade for Nina he'll snoop and find out about Philip and Elizabeth and give the info to Stan.  Then he and Nina can disappear together.

[Emme]

Dear Awards People,

Please give them all to Matthew Rhys.

Thank you.

[sistermagpie]

The problem isn't just that audience is small; it is that the audience is rapidly shrinking....

http://headlineplane...her-series-low/

Critical acclaim can help, but there has to be somebody besides a few hundred thousand other people watching it.

 

 

Yes, but I don't think the thing that would make the audience grow a lot isn't a simple solution like making the FBI seem smarter. The central ideas and premises of the show simply don't appeal to a wide audience and later seasons have just continued to get more deeply into those ideas.  

 

When Philip asked Elizabeth if he should sleep with Kimmy and she said I don't know, I took that to mean Philip sees how far gone Elizabeth is, if she actually thinks sleeping with a 15 year old is an acceptable thing to do for the cause.

 

 

But Philip obviously also isn't sure if it's an acceptable thing to do. He hasn't refused to do--he kissed her in the last ep. He sees the same value in it as Elizabeth does, even if he's more upset by the morals of it and cares more about Kimmie. He and Elizabeth actually came to the same conclusion about the issue in this ep--neither of them knew if he should do it. He didn't tell her it wasn't acceptable and she didn't tell him it was.

[RedHawk]

It disappoints me that Matthew Rhys isn't winning awards. If he did then the show would get more recognition and more viewers, and I would hope, more seasons. All of which it deserves!

 

That being said, this storyline is making me uncomfortable - maybe its because I'm older and a parent myself. I don't know.

 

 

I think it's supposed to make us uncomfortable. I don't have kids and it sure bothers me.

Edited February 27, 2015 by RedHawk

[crgirl412]

 

Given how absolutely horrible the ratings are for this show

 

The problem isn't just that audience is small; it is that the audience is rapidly shrinking....

 

 

Critical acclaim can help, but there has to be somebody besides a few hundred thousand other people watching it.

I "get" why it's not super popular since you have to be into history- especially a very specific time in history and it's can be very difficult to watch with the killings and sex scenes but I'll be crushed if it's cancelled without a "good" ending,  I think that right now TPTB should be talking about fast forwarding to the fall of the USSR and P & E's reaction then what happens to them just in case they only get 1 more season. 

 

I never watched Justified or Breaking Bad but aren't they tough to watch as well?  They did well in the ratings, didn't they? 

Edited February 27, 2015 by crgirl412

[ChromaKelly]

Refresh my memory: Does the Center know that Stan is their neighbor, and that he works for the FBI? If so, I'm surprised Stan hasn't been made a mark, or that P&E haven't been ordered to bug his house/car/briefcase. I forget how Martha was targeted.

[soapfaninnc]

I "get" why it's not super popular since you have to be into history- especially a very specific time in history and it's can be very difficult to watch with the killings and sex scenes but I'll be crushed if it's cancelled without a "good" ending,  I think that right now TPTB should be talking about fast forwarding to the fall of the USSR and P & E's reaction then what happens to them just in case they only get 1 more season. 

 

I never watched Justified or Breaking Bad but aren't they tough to watch as well?  They did well in the ratings, didn't they? 

 

I never watched Breaking Bad but Justified isn't as hard to watch. The characters are very shades of gray on both sides of the aisle. The dialogue on that show is just so good and the characters so well defined that you 'get' their motivation even if you can't root for them to win - you can see some sort of growth or backsliding - something is happening to the characters. They aren't static. 

[Bannon]

Yes, but I don't think the thing that would make the audience grow a lot isn't a simple solution like making the FBI seem smarter. The central ideas and premises of the show simply don't appeal to a wide audience and later seasons have just continued to get more deeply into those ideas.  

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I really disagree with the notion that having a major character, and major antagonist, sort of devolve into an unworthy (as an antagonist) dummy, over the course of three seasons, doesn't greatly lessen the appeal of a dramatic series.  The problem isn't that the show didn't grow. If the audience had stayed roughly the same size, it'd be fine. The problem is that viewers have been driven away, via somewhat pedestrian errors in writing.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Bannon

[Dev F]

Yeah, I really disagree with the notion that having a major character, and major antagonist, sort of devolve into an unworthy (as an antagonist) dummy, over the course of three seasons, doesn't greatly lessen the appeal of a dramatic series.  The problem isn't that the show didn't grow. If the audience had stayed roughly the same size, it'd be fine. The problem is that viewers have been driven away, via somewhat pedestrian errors in writing.

 

We have no basis for determining why viewers have been "driven away," but you'd think that if it was because of something as straightforward as that, it would be reflected in the opinions of critics, who continue to gush about the show.

 

In any event, I think we can be fairly certain that the ratings haven't been affected by something like Elizabeth cold-heartedly dropping a car on someone in the middle of this latest episode, since that would only affect the ratings of subsequent episodes.

 

(It's also worth keeping in mind that the Live ratings only show part of the viewership picture; The Americans has always been a show that rises substantially in the Live +3 and and Live +7 figures as people watch it on DVR and On Demand.)

[sistermagpie]

Yeah, I really disagree with the notion that having a major character, and major antagonist, sort of devolve into an unworthy (as an antagonist) dummy, over the course of three seasons, doesn't greatly lessen the appeal of a dramatic series.  The problem isn't that the show didn't grow. If the audience had stayed roughly the same size, it'd be fine. The problem is that viewers have been driven away, via somewhat pedestrian errors in writin

 

 

Do you mean the show didn't grow or the audience didn't? The audience didn't grow, but the show has grown a lot. I think they showed the audience pretty quickly that Stan wasn't there to be an antagonist, even if he sometimes was that. The last ep, for instance, had pretty much zero to do with the FBI or Philip and Elizabeth at risk of being caught by them and that's not unusual. The show's about how people wear masks and the toll of secret identities etc. on people. It's a show about a marriage. Stan's arc's far more about his search to figure out who he is after his undercover work now that he can no longer see himself as the hero than it is about him chasing the Jennings. Most of Stan's stupidity comes directly from that, imo. In his scenes with Philip in this ep I completely forgot Philip was a spy that Stan was trying to catch. When I remembered it still had very little bearing on the scene (which I thought was a great scene).

 

It's not that I'm saying it's not better to make the FBI come across like a competent spy-catching machine--I agree that would of course be an improvement. But the show's not a cat and mouse game essentially so anybody looking for a good FBI probably wouldn't find much in the show even if they were better. Sure it's a shame that they've lost people because they don't like how the FBI comes across and that's on the show, but I think I still think the declining ratings is more about people genuinely not finding the way the show's subject interesting than anything else. I don't even think an interest in history is very central either, although if that's an interest that would make people check it out. It's not a show about the history of the Cold War, that setting's just perfect for the character stuff they're exploring.

 

Most of the comments I see about people not watching the show at least don't contradict the idea. They feel it's boring, that nothing happens, that it's turned into porn, that the main characters are just awful people. There are some people who also don't like the way the FBI comes across too, absolutely. But at least sometimes that comes with the idea that this should be more central to the show as well. It's more like the FBI stuff is the one thing they could have gotten into and it's bad because the other stuff might not even be happening.

 

I never watched Justified or Breaking Bad but aren't they tough to watch as well?  They did well in the ratings, didn't they?

 

 

I don't think it's a case of a generic "hard to watch" because of violence idea. The periodic violence in Breaking Bad was part of a completely different type narrative that appealed to people (and the violence in that context had different meanings). The Americans has some squicky scenes, but it's far from the most violent shows on TV. 

[Bannon]

Do you mean the show didn't grow or the audience didn't? The audience didn't grow, but the show has grown a lot. I think they showed the audience pretty quickly that Stan wasn't there to be an antagonist, even if he sometimes was that. The last ep, for instance, had pretty much zero to do with the FBI or Philip and Elizabeth at risk of being caught by them and that's not unusual. The show's about how people wear masks and the toll of secret identities etc. on people. It's a show about a marriage. Stan's arc's far more about his search to figure out who he is after his undercover work now that he can no longer see himself as the hero than it is about him chasing the Jennings. Most of Stan's stupidity comes directly from that, imo. In his scenes with Philip in this ep I completely forgot Philip was a spy that Stan was trying to catch. When I remembered it still had very little bearing on the scene (which I thought was a great scene).

 

It's not that I'm saying it's not better to make the FBI come across like a competent spy-catching machine--I agree that would of course be an improvement. But the show's not a cat and mouse game essentially so anybody looking for a good FBI probably wouldn't find much in the show even if they were better. Sure it's a shame that they've lost people because they don't like how the FBI comes across and that's on the show, but I think I still think the declining ratings is more about people genuinely not finding the way the show's subject interesting than anything else. I don't even think an interest in history is very central either, although if that's an interest that would make people check it out. It's not a show about the history of the Cold War, that setting's just perfect for the character stuff they're exploring.

 

Most of the comments I see about people not watching the show at least don't contradict the idea. They feel it's boring, that nothing happens, that it's turned into porn, that the main characters are just awful people. There are some people who also don't like the way the FBI comes across too, absolutely. But at least sometimes that comes with the idea that this should be more central to the show as well. It's more like the FBI stuff is the one thing they could have gotten into and it's bad because the other stuff might not even be happening.

 

 

I don't think it's a case of a generic "hard to watch" because of violence idea. The periodic violence in Breaking Bad was part of a completely different type narrative that appealed to people (and the violence in that context had different meanings). The Americans has some squicky scenes, but it's far from the most violent shows on TV. 

 

There'a a wide gap between "good FBI" and "FBI comprised of blithering idiots". Maybe I'm crazy, but I tend to think that drama is served very poorly when a large amount of time is given to characters who are dullards, because, fundamentally, dullards just aren't very interesting. It'd be one thing if the FBI/CIA personnel was only occasionally on the screen. They are on the screen a lot, however, and they are written poorly. Bad writing drives an audience away, and don't get me started on critics; those are the same hacks that help make a piece of dreck like "Crash" into a best picture winner.

 

Again, the problem is not that the audience didn't grow. The problem is that the audience is abandoning the show in huge numbers, about half way through the third season.

[Ellaria]

The problem isn't just that audience is small; it is that the audience is rapidly shrinking....

 

http://headlineplanet.com/home/2015/02/26/ratings-fxs-the-americans-sinks-to-another-series-low/

 

Critical acclaim can help, but there has to be somebody besides a few hundred thousand other people watching it.

 

Yes. It is never a good thing when a quality show with low ratings starts to lose viewership.

 

Yeah, I really disagree with the notion that having a major character, and major antagonist, sort of devolve into an unworthy (as an antagonist) dummy, over the course of three seasons, doesn't greatly lessen the appeal of a dramatic series.  The problem isn't that the show didn't grow. If the audience had stayed roughly the same size, it'd be fine. The problem is that viewers have been driven away, via somewhat pedestrian errors in writing.

 

I would cautiously agree here. I binge-watched the first two seasons over a bunch of snow days and was caught up for the S3 premiere. I started watching because of the critical acclaim that this show receives. And the acclaim is well-deserved. My only issue was the S2 finale and the dying teenager's confession. That certainly was an error in writing but it can be forgiven in an otherwise excellent show.

 

However, I think that S3 has started off slowly due to problematic story arcs for the characters. Nina in the the Soviet prison isn't very compelling. Either get her out of prison or write the character out of the show. Oleg was dynamic in S2; now he may be joining forces with sad sack Stan. Really? I liked the scenes in the rezidentura and wish there were more. So far, I'm not particularly invested in the Milky Way defector but I assume that more  will be revealed. Whether or not the FBI are a bunch of dunderheads isn't an issue for me. It just seems that they have been pushed out of the story in favor of the Afghan CIA group...none of whom have been developed as characters. Of course, we are still waiting for the other shoe to drop in Paige's recruitment story line. And poor Stan needs some purpose.

 

Most of the comments I see about people not watching the show at least don't contradict the idea. They feel it's boring, that nothing happens, that it's turned into porn, that the main characters are just awful people. There are some people who also don't like the way the FBI comes across too, absolutely. But at least sometimes that comes with the idea that this should be more central to the show as well. It's more like the FBI stuff is the one thing they could have gotten into and it's bad because the other stuff might not even be happening.

 

If people aren't watching its because the concept doesn't interest them. The show is about so much more than "KGB in America." Its actually a great period piece and a great political thriller. For some, that may translate into boring. Overall, I don't think that the show is well-promoted. 

[Bannon]

Yes. It is never a good thing when a quality show with low ratings starts to lose viewership.

 

 

I would cautiously agree here. I binge-watched the first two seasons over a bunch of snow days and was caught up for the S3 premiere. I started watching because of the critical acclaim that this show receives. And the acclaim is well-deserved. My only issue was the S2 finale and the dying teenager's confession. That certainly was an error in writing but it can be forgiven in an otherwise excellent show.

 

However, I think that S3 has started off slowly due to problematic story arcs for the characters. Nina in the the Soviet prison isn't very compelling. Either get her out of prison or write the character out of the show. Oleg was dynamic in S2; now he may be joining forces with sad sack Stan. Really? I liked the scenes in the rezidentura and wish there were more. So far, I'm not particularly invested in the Milky Way defector but I assume that more  will be revealed. Whether or not the FBI are a bunch of dunderheads isn't an issue for me. It just seems that they have been pushed out of the story in favor of the Afghan CIA group...none of whom have been developed as characters. Of course, we are still waiting for the other shoe to drop in Paige's recruitment story line. And poor Stan needs some purpose.

 

 

If people aren't watching its because the concept doesn't interest them. The show is about so much more than "KGB in America." Its actually a great period piece and a great political thriller. For some, that may translate into boring. Overall, I don't think that the show is well-promoted. 

 

Yeah, if the concept didn't interest them, then I don't think the ratings for episode one this season would have started at the point they did, and then cratered. It surely wasn't mostly people who missed the 1st two seasons, tuned in for one episode, and then quit. I almost abandoned the  show after the ridiculous season 1 finale, because it was just too stupid. I was glad I didn't, because I really enjoyed season two, and part of that was that the gay Navy Seal gone rogue gave our favorite KGB couple a worthy foe. Having a sad sack as the most important character outside of KGB Family Robinson was just a real mistake.

[crgirl412]

 

 Overall, I don't think that the show is well-promoted. 

THIS!!!  100000%  It kills me that Bravo has gotten the promotion thing nailed down like they invented it for trashy reality tv but FX can't get it together for incredible work like the Americans.

 

I watch several Real Housewives shows- don't judge! ;)  Before a new season they show at least the season before and many times all of the previous seasons.  Then during the season, the prior week's episode is shown at 9 pm then that week's show is shown at 10 pm the at least 10 more times that week and throughout the rest of the season.  I missed the second episode due to working overnight and my DVR didn't record it and I to work to find it online!!  I was really annoyed!!

 

Now Bravo is owned by NBCUniversal and maybe has money to burn and FX doesn't but I honestly don't get it.  If any of you know about these things, please explain why the vast difference in promotion of a show.  Thanks! 

Edited February 28, 2015 by crgirl412

[SunnyBeBe]

I love the show.  I can imagine why it might not appeal to a large population, though.  It requires a lot of thought.  That seems to turn off a lot of viewers.  I also don't think many younger viewers want to watch a show where cell phones were not yet common.

[sistermagpie]

I almost abandoned the  show after the ridiculous season 1 finale, because it was just too stupid. I was glad I didn't, because I really enjoyed season two, and part of that was that the gay Navy Seal gone rogue gave our favorite KGB couple a worthy foe. Having a sad sack as the most important character outside of KGB Family Robinson was just a real mistake.

 

 

It seems like "worthy foe" is very central to your enjoyment of the show, but it doesn't seem like a priority for the show at all. Larrick needed to be a scary foe because of the whole threat to the kids idea that was going to be subverted, but right now the threat to the family comes from within the family and from the KGB.

 

Yeah, if the concept didn't interest them, then I don't think the ratings for episode one this season would have started at the point they did, and then cratered.

 

 

I'm not actually talking about the concept ("Undercover KGB agents in the US in the 80s") I mean what the show's really about using that premise.

Edited February 27, 2015 by sistermagpie

[Chaos Theory]

The problem isn't just that audience is small; it is that the audience is rapidly shrinking....

http://headlineplanet.com/home/2015/02/26/ratings-fxs-the-americans-sinks-to-another-series-low/

Critical acclaim can help, but there has to be somebody besides a few hundred thousand other people watching it.

I love the direction the show is going and think this is the best season yet. The parallels between Kimmie and Paige are striking and it is striking that Philip can see them but Elizabeth cannot. Edited February 27, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[kikaha]

 

the FBI and CIA in particular are still portrayed as being more stupid than what is credible.

Problem is that if the American agencies were smarter, E&P couldn't get away with their weekly schemes.  They would have been caught long ago.  Either that, or we'd have little dramatic tension or action in the show. 

 

Kimmie was likable this episode, in a heart-breaking kind of way for a young girl whose parents mostly abandoned. I, too, hope Phillip does not sleep with her -- and feel it might be more dangerous for him to do so.  The risk grows, as he gets closer to her.  Better to get some info and then disappear from her life.

[stillshimpy]

It's always difficult to pin down why a show loses viewers while a season is airing, but I do know someone who stopped watching because the Jared plot resolution was too dumb for them to bear.  I think the FBI just always being too far behind on every game starts to feel a little insulting and I'm not under-estimating the fact that current actions by Putin make the show less "oh, it's like looking back into a time capsule....wheeee!" and a little more "ripped from the headlines, everything old is new again" (same gig with the There's a War, In Afghanistan, let's involve Extremist movements claiming to represent Islam).   

 

I think the fun escapism, "Man am I glad THAT is all in the past" element sort of went out the window.  

 

The stuff  with Yousef in this episode I don't think is helping anything, although it did sort of give me a grim chuckle, "You don't own me" a) earwormed the living hell out of me, to this very moment b) was darkly humorous because he's talking to a guy whose daughter his bosses are trying for forcibly conscript into a game that c) has him facing the moral dilemma of having to possibly have sex with an adolescent girl with Daddy Issues that could be seen from Space.  

 

You picked the wrong guy to complain to there, Yousef, just saying.  

 

 

 

The friendship between Stan and Philip is a great storyline. It's such a nice thing for both guys. I love to see Philip helping Stan and also getting something back from the friendship, even if it's only a sense of what a normal buddy relationship is like. Yet we're always aware that Philip is using Stan and so capable of turning on him and either killing him outright or completely destroying his life. Whew.

 

I love that there is clearly a genuine bond between these two and that it also wouldn't save either of them.  

 

I also am enjoying that the FBI is getting to look at least somewhat competent with the Zinaida story, but did feel a bit like leaping off the tallest thing I could find when it turned out Stan competently doing his job was once again tied to his feelings for Nina.  Good lord, dude.  Have some dignity already.  Make it right?   I love Nina and Oleg together, but Nina deeply deceived Stan and he really ought to know it, considering he knows that Oleg is in love with her.  

 

Move on for "I did it all for love" and do your job, dude.  

 

As for Kimmie, whoa that was just sad and uncomfortable on multiple levels.  She misses her mom and feels like her step-mother took her dad away from her.  

 

Boy her first marriage of what will be, doubtless, a series of failed ones is going to be a sight to behold.  Good luck, all future suitors of Kimmie, you're going to need it...particularly after whatever the happens with Phillip because pretty much no matter what he does at this point, he's going to add to her emotional abandonment issues.  

Edited February 27, 2015 by stillshimpy

[RazzleberryPie]

 

Kimmie was likable this episode, in a heart-breaking kind of way for a young girl whose parents mostly abandoned. I, too, hope Phillip does not sleep with her -- and feel it might be more dangerous for him to do so.  The risk grows, as he gets closer to her.  Better to get some info and then disappear from her life.

My prediction is Philip turns, or at least tries to turn, Kimmie instead of Paige.Then Kimmie dies. Maybe that's who Martha ends up shooting, bc with all the Martha Gun plot devices, if she doesn't shoot somebody, I'm going to be upset. 

 

I'd actually love it if Kimmie turned out to be some sort of 25 year old double agent who was totally playing Philip/Jimmy so he could be caught (loyalty tested by the Russians, or set up by the CIA/FBI and sent to prison for statutory rape).

 

I love the direction the show is going and think this is the best season yet. The parallels between Kimmie and Paige are striking and it is striking that Philip can see them but Elizabeth cannot.

Oh, I agree so much! I think Philip and Elizabeth both see the parallels between Kimmie and Paige, but they just both have totally different perspectives. Philip doesn't want to steal the innocence or lie to either girl. Elizabeth doesn't care about babying either girl and wants to do what has to be done and use either girl for the greater cause.

[sistermagpie]

It's always difficult to pin down why a show loses viewers while a season is airing, but I do know someone who stopped watching because the Jared plot resolution was too dumb for them to bear.

 

 

See, that's the type of thing that makes me think the way I do. Because as the solution to a mystery, I had lots of problems with the Jared reveal. But as the solution to the emotional conflicts of the whole season it was right on point--and that's what became the storyline for S3. I completely understand criticizing the flaws of it as the former but I feel like it's far more distracting when you're not that interested in it as the latter.

 

Move on for "I did it all for love" and do your job, dude.

 

 

But tbf, Stan's desperate to make things right on a personal level because he has just no idea who he is if he can't. Nina was the one thing he had where he could feel like a hero--which was why that was the thing that could be used to dupe him--so I can buy him wanting to make it right. I don't think it's strictly about him just being in love with her--if he was only motivated by love he would have given the Soviets the plans for Echo. But I can completely buy that he feels like he failed her as a hero and wants to make that right. Everybody has their weak spots and on this show they usually get exploited.

 

My prediction is Philip turns, or at least tries to turn, Kimmie instead of Paige.

 

 

But there is no "instead of Paige." Kimmie's there to be an asset who can get him to her father. If Kimmie can also be turned into a Soviet sympathizer, that's awesome. She wouldn't be the first person Philip had turned in that direction. It wouldn't make her part of the second generation Illegals program.

[Tighthead]

Early on Stan was presented as pretty capable - he had done some good and dangerous undercover work, Gadd took to him immediately.  He snuck into P & E's house late too check out the car, which showed that he was pretty perceptive.  He struck me as the classic square-jawed, straight arrow g-man.

 

Granted a relationship can mess up anyone, but they have taken him from being strong in his work (and maybe average in life) to a bit weak in everything.  I hope he scores a victory with this latest defector.

[Bannon]

It seems like "worthy foe" is very central to your enjoyment of the show, but it doesn't seem like a priority for the show at all. Larrick needed to be a scary foe because of the whole threat to the kids idea that was going to be subverted, but right now the threat to the family comes from within the family and from the KGB.

 

 

I'm not actually talking about the concept ("Undercover KGB agents in the US in the 80s") I mean what the show's really about using that premise.

No, what is central to my enjoyment of the show is having interesting characters on the screen. If the FBI and CIA are all half wits on the show, then a  very substantial amount of the one hour (less commercials) episodes are comprised of having very uninteresting characters on the screen. When trying to get people to watch one hour episodic drama, it is inadvisable to devote a substantial amount of screen time to characters who are not interesting.

[Ellaria]

Having a sad sack as the most important character outside of KGB Family Robinson was just a real mistake.

 

A big "yes' to this. IMO, this is a huge problem. Stan is too crucial to be spending time in EST meetings. And yes, I understand "why" the character supposedly needs to do this but I don't like it.

 

THIS!!!  100000%  It kills me that Bravo has gotten the promotion thing nailed down like they invented it for trashy reality tv but FX can't get it together for incredible work like the Americans.

 

I think that "The Americans" is a better show than "House of Cards" and yet the level of buzz about these two shows is not comparable.

[RedHawk]

My prediction is Philip turns, or at least tries to turn, Kimmie instead of Paige.Then Kimmie dies. Maybe that's who Martha ends up shooting,

 

 

Or maybe Philip will set it up so that Kimmie can be Martha's foster child. ;-)

[Shriekingeel]

I get the low ratings. This is the most annotation-requiring show on television, not just for the historical references but for the extensive tradecraft that is rarely explained in exposition. Network shows typically spoon-feed exposition about every single detail, and this show will have none of that. Consequently it's harder for casual viewers to follow. I don't know why they've stuck with it for so long, but I hope it finds a way again this time.

[Umbelina]

Problem is that if the American agencies were smarter, E&P couldn't get away with their weekly schemes.  They would have been caught long ago.  Either that, or we'd have little dramatic tension or action in the show. 

 

snip

 

The real life couple this show is loosely based on weren't caught for decades. 

 

I wish they would show more of the disconnect between CIA and FBI agents, because I do think that greatly benefited embedded spies, and frankly the moles they've had over the years (many of whom also lasted decades without the CIA/FBI/MI6 catching on.)

 

I think their were some simple mistakes in the first couple of episodes that rankled in a show that's been this well done.  I remember commenting on them when they happened.

 

Still, Mad Men will be gone, this show needs to live on.  I hope it does.  Luckily, FX doesn't seem to expect or abandon shows with lower ratings.

 

Edited February 28, 2015 by Umbelina

[againstthewind]

I get the low ratings. This is the most annotation-requiring show on television, not just for the historical references but for the extensive tradecraft that is rarely explained in exposition. Network shows typically spoon-feed exposition about every single detail, and this show will have none of that. Consequently it's harder for casual viewers to follow. I don't know why they've stuck with it for so long, but I hope it finds a way again this time.

 

Yes! For context, I'm 26 (well, for another hour and a half...) and was born right before the Soviet Union fell. Everything I learned about the Soviets was stuff I've looked up on my own. TBH, I really enjoy the show, but it's not what I'd call an easy watch. I often have to watch the show twice, once while looking up events and once again to catch the stuff I missed the first time. Mad Men is a tough watch, this is a master class in dedicated viewing. I can't deal with distractions while it's on. Most people my age have 1000000 things going on while watching TV. This isn't the show for them, sadly.

 

My parents are a few years older than Paige would be and they just got into the show - they have NEVER heard of it, but my mom was a fan of Matthew Rhys from Brothers & Sisters and heard me mention it. Otherwise they wouldn't even know it existed, because it gets very little hype. They have an easier time understanding what is going on, but the show doesn't provide a ton of historical context.

 

It's a shame this show doesn't get award show fodder because Rhys was masterful in this last episode. Just phenomenal. Wondering if people may catch on later, like Breaking Bad.

 

I am really losing any sort of sympathy for the Elizabeth character. She's just beyond cold now. The murder of the car guy - my friend went "what the hell are you watching?" - it was just so...ugh. Phillip is so much more intriguing to me. You could feel the punch in the gut when Kimmie talked about her father never being around, and the fact that he could have a whole nother family. How interesting. I really think he's getting closer and closer to defecting, especially with the added focus on his friendship with Stan. I do root for him, he seems so broken.

Edited February 28, 2015 by againstthewind