S19.E10: Week 9

[Andromeda]

And this was total producer manipulation that she get into the FS, then told him.  The show wanted to be able to say in the Promo "A Virgin Goes to the Fantasy Suite" as their banner headline, and they made this happen.

I don't get it. If she told him earlier in the day, she's still be a virgin going into the fantasy suite, right? It's not like he'd nail her that second. Unless you mean he wouldn't take her, but they both said they wanted to spend the time getting to know each other. I think she was just afraid to tell him, but it was silly to wait so long.

[Mu Shu]

There's a reason that sex is always included in the most frequent reasons people get divorced!

My ex's ex never had sex until they got married, and it months before she would do the deed.   It was said to be awful, and she did not want to repeat it.   So, there's that.   

[Adeejay]

Kaitlyn - Never really thought much of you all season, but I really like you this episode.  And I thought you looked gorgeous at the rose ceremony.  I hope you're the Bachelorette next season... that would be fun to watch.

 

Yeah.  That's not going to happen.  In an interview with TV Guide, Chris Harrison said, "Kaitlyn Bristowe had been living in everyone on the show’s shadow for weeks, if I were to announce tomorrow that Kaitlyn is the next Bachelorette, the majority of fans would say “Kaitlyn Who?”

[Mu Shu]

What a great decision that was...because there are so few eligible bachelors in her tiny hometown of CHICAGO.

 

 

 

Who knows? They might have made a baby in the fantasy suite!

 

 

 

And yet...five minutes earlier, she was still head-over-heels in love with Chris, and ready to marry him if asked. I'm not saying your analysis is wrong, but it's just silly how quickly the contestants snap out of their Stockholm Syndrome.

Ew, ew, ew!    Then they'll have to name the baby Sweet Fantasy Soules.    Hope the poor little bug inherits Whitney's sweat glands.

[atlanticslide]

I'm so mad at Becca for causing us all to waste last week's episode thread debating why she has never fallen in love or "felt anything," when the simple ordinary truth is that she has "decided to wait for marriage."  She could have just told us that from the start instead of repeating, "I'm a virgin," a thousand times over with no explanation as to why.  She did the same thing to Chris before the Fantasy Suite, leaving him to guess whether or not she meant, "I'm a virgin, please be gentle tonight,"  of "I'm a virgin, and I intend to stay that way until my wedding night."  But those are complex sentences and beyond either person's ability to speak or comprehend.  Becca not only has the vocal fry going on, but I find myself looking for a puppet on her lap when she speaks because of the weird lack of lip movement .

Well, she did say when it was first revealed back when Ashley I was going on about her own virginity, "It's a decision I made" or "it's a decision I made a long time ago," something like that, which I took to mean that it was a decision she made to wait for marriage. Also, for all that she talked a lot about it in this week's episode, she really hasn't made that big of a deal about it before this episode, or repeated it a thousand times.

[WookieeCookieez]

I felt like the way Becca announced her virginity amplified Chris' awkward... everything. I respect that she is saving sex for marriage, but to wait until there's a room key on the table to say "I'm a virgin" just seems to invite confusion. Putting myself in Prince Farming's shoes for a moment, is she saying she doesn't know what to do? Is she saying she's scared? What is the expected response?

If the motivation for keeping her flower intact is that it's sacred to marriage in her eyes, Becca would have been better served (I think) to say she's waiting until marriage. They must have had some conversations about values and faith, so it wouldn't be coming out of left field. As it was, when she was talking to camera about how Chris didn't know he could be inviting a virgin into the fantasy suite led to me telling the TV "it's not like you're a cannibal. Put it in perspective, girl."

 

I like Kaitlyn and hope that some distance from the situation will reveal that she's better off without Chris & all the glories Arlington had to offer.

[leighdear]

All respect for waiting for marriage, yada, yada.... But the decision to withhold the virgin status from Chris was planned, deliberate and capitalized on for maximum effect.  If Becca had not made it absolutely clear to the producers in the beginning that she was a virgin, she could have told Chris in the FS, away from the cameras and out of the public eye.

 

Chris is a nice guy.  I'll bet if Becca had shared that with him behind closed doors, he wouldn't have mentioned it to anybody, much less the entire watching world.

 

Virginity was her "hook", regardless of how seriously she actually takes it.  She let it and herself be used by the producers for drama.  I'm sure their questionaires cover this, and obviously she made the decision to be truthful with a group of people who wanted to exploit it for ratings.

 

And she agreed to it, so obviously she wanted her personal information speculated about by millions.  I would have lied & maybe told him later.

Edited February 26, 2015 by leighdear

[MsPH]

I don't see why she should have lied. It's not like it's something to be ashamed of. But it's also not something you blurt out on the first date or in the middle of a cocktail party when intimacy is still a long way off. That would just be weird. And it's something that easily affects how people view you, unless they already know that's not all you are. Hence why it's a good idea to get to know the guy first.

 

She seems to take all negativity in stride though, so I don't think it's a problem for her, only to other people.

[leighdear]

But it's also not something you blurt out on the first date or in the middle of a cocktail party when intimacy is still a long way off

But you blurt it out in front of millions of people? When you're about to be alone for the first time without cameras?  Like in the Fantasy Suite? Where some people have sex for the first time?

 

Ok, I'm done with Becca's lack of sex life. 

[jordanpond]

A few thoughts about Becca. Although there has been a lot of discussion why Beçca's decision to wait for marriage might be a deal breaker for Chris, what I don't understand why his willingness to sleep with three women during their stay in Bali isn't a deal breaker for her. If she wants to wait for marriage for moral/religious reasons, I don't know why she isn't looking for a man whose values line up with hers a lot better than Chris' values do.

Also, I don't quite understand the opinion that her being a virgin is some "thing" that should have been revealed to Chris. I mean, isn't having had zero partners just one option among many,such as having had 2 partners, (or 20 or 200)? No one feels compelled to share the reasons for the latter on this show, so why is the former an issue requiring attention?

I guess to me, not having sex in the fantasy suite is a pretty legitimate choice. If I didn't know anything about this show, and met two contestants, one who expected not to sleep with a lead whom she barely knows and who is dating other people, and one who said, "Yeah, if I end up engaged to the lead, and a week before we get engaged he sleeps with 2 other women,that's totally fine with me," I would think the first person was a lot more normal.

Edited February 27, 2015 by jordanpond

[Zahdii]

A few thoughts about Becca. Although there has been a lot of discussion why Beçca's decision to wait for marriage might be a deal breaker for Chris, what I don't understand why his willingness to sleep with three women during their stay in Bali isn't a deal breaker for her. If she wants to wait for marriage for moral/religious reasons, I don't know why she isn't looking for a man whose values line up with hers a lot better than Chris' values do.

Also, I don't quite understand the opinion that her being a virgin is some "thing" that should have been revealed to Chris. I mean, isn't having had zero partners just one option among many,such as having had 2 partners, (or 20 or 200)? No one feels compelled to share the reasons for the latter on this show, so why is the former an issue requiring attention?

I guess to me, not having sex in the fantasy suite is a pretty legitimate choice. If I didn't know anything about this show, and met two contestants, one who expected not to sleep with a lead whom she barely knows and who is dating other people, and one who said, "Yeah, if I end up engaged to the lead, and a week before we get engaged he sleeps with 2 other women,that's totally fine with me," I would think the first person was a lot more normal.

 

I've posted before that I thought that Becca was looking in the wrong place if she was truly looking for a man that shared her values.

 

As to the way Becca seems to think that being a virgin is something she shouldn't have to tell Chris, I was going to disagree, pointing out the whole "when you have sex with someone, you're also 'having sex' with everyone they've had sex with" thing.  Then I reread, and I get your point.  Virginity is being treated as some sort of huge issue that has negative connotations, at least the way Becca is presenting it.  In my age group the men always seemed to get a rush out of 'popping' a virgin.  One asshole even lamented that he'd have to find an 'ugly third-grader' to get that sort of prize.  Becca seems to think that not having prior experience is a bad thing.  God only knows how Chris thought about it, because he wasn't expecting the news and we've all seen how well Chris responds to unexpected news when he's on camera.

 

Instead of Becca acting like virginity is a bad thing that Chris will have to overcome, why isn't she out looking for another virgin or at least someone who has only had a very few sexual partners?  Maybe it's production messing with her brain.  Maybe they've acted so astounded that she's not put out for a man before and caused her to think that she's an oddball who has to apologize for not having sex before she was good and ready.  She talked about it constantly in her talking heads during the last show, but maybe she was being led by production.  "Becca, I know we've talked about it before, but we're not sure we got good footage.  Tell us again about being a virgin and how that might make Chris not like you as much."  "Becca, the lighting wasn't right before, let's do it again.  Talk about the virgin thing and how Chris might be unhappy to find out you're one."  "Becca, the sound quality was bad, we're gonna have to do it again.  3, 2, 1, speak!"

 

As for your thoughts that a woman may not be happy over finding out the man she was hoping to propose to her had slept with one or two 'contenders' just before that, I agree.  Most women would have a hard time getting over that.

[backformore]

I guess to me, not having sex in the fantasy suite is a pretty legitimate choice. If I didn't know anything about this show, and met two contestants, one who expected not to sleep with a lead whom she barely knows and who is dating other people, and one who said, "Yeah, if I end up engaged to the lead, and a week before we get engaged he sleeps with 2 other women,that's totally fine with me," I would think the first person was a lot more normal.

 

In a "normal"  dating situation, I wouldn't want to be dating someone who has been kissing/making out with several women in the past week, either.   Maybe it's me being old-fashioned (or just OLD)  but I think this show leans too heavily on discovering "chemistry" by making out with someone.  I would be more interested, and take the show more seriously, if the dates consisted more of getting to know each other, rather than "romantic settings where we can kiss".  

 

Granted, it's been a while since I was dating, but don't dates have a lot more to do with TALKING, maybe about music, movies, sports, current events?  On this show, the conversations are all about "I feel we have a connection, lets' kiss to make sure."   

[Former Nun]

I was wanting Britt to be the next Bachelorette so she could really bring on the crazy...and the conniving.  After thinking it over, I think she probably shines when she's Queen Bee.  We may just get a beautiful girl with a fabulous wardrobe and impeccable grooming (she'll be forced to shower in order to wear the wardrobe).  Only if she treats her "boyfriends" like shit will I be able to watch.  I never watch entire shows anyway...I'm mostly an FF-er.

[Padma]

I will never understand why Becca waited so long to tell him she was a virgin, especially if the reason she gave in her TH ("I want to wait for marriage") was true. With all that Chris blathered on about "old fashioned values", you'd think he'd find that perfectly relatable, maybe even quite positive, depending on what their feelings for each other really are.

 

She also had a perfect opportunity to tell him because Ashley had been so open about it early on.  (No one seemed to feel he sent her home because of it, either). I think it's really weird of her not to tell him, especially if her reason really IS about marriage (his whole point in being there, supposedly). If he doesn't want to develop a relationship with a virgin, then he should have been able to make that decision about where they were headed sooner.

 

Of course, I'm a little surprised that neither of them ever talked about past relationships much, apparently. (I'm curious how difficult it is for girls to have a "social life" in a town of 400 people. Sounds like it would be pretty awful to be a teenager dating and have to choose from such a small group of boys, in such a small community where everyone is in your business. I'm surprised Chris didn't marry right out of high school, or at least out of college). Then again, I was kind of looking forward to hearing some stories about his life growing up in such a small town.  Instead, thanks to his nonexistent conversational skills, I know nothing much about Arlington, his life and family or any of the F3.  He says you have to leave Arlington if you want to do -anything- at all, but I don't remember him talking about going anywhere and doing anything (other than the old h.s. and their game). I wouldn't be surprised if he is pretty content sitting on the farm, tossing back a few beers and watching a game on television most of the time. I wish we could have seen the women ask a little more of the sisters because I wouldn't be surprised if they were concerned about him beyond just "being a bachelor in Arlington".

Edited February 27, 2015 by Padma

[saber5055]

Granted, it's been a while since I was dating, but don't dates have a lot more to do with TALKING, maybe about music, movies, sports, current events?  On this show, the conversations are all about "I feel we have a connection, lets' kiss to make sure."

 

 

Well said. One has to remember the people on this show are chosen for how good they look in a hot tub, not for any "connection" they might feel with the lead. It's all scripted and heavily edited. We never get to see a real convo, if there are any, just the "stuff" that Fleiss/ABC has found brings in the viewers and, hence, the cash, and renewal for one more year. Whether Chris was told to make out with everyone to find his "connection" or if that's really him ... only Chris (and Fleiss) know.

 

Virgin was Becca's hook, and, based on the posts that go on forever here about that bit of nothing, it's worked to get people talking and tuning in. So, good on the show for continuing its "much ado about nothing" theme.

[The Closer]

I see Chris as fairly normal/nothing special which is boring to watch, but I don't fault him for that. I blame the show for thinking he'd make a good bachelor.  Chris is someone who has no savvy about how to date lots of women and no awareness of how to make for good television which makes him a poor choice for either finding romance or being entertaining for the rest of us. There is no fairy tale aspect either because there is nothing alluring about his small Iowa town that is going to make this ending in any way romantic. I don't think he's as evil as some apparently think, though. I just think he's boring.

 

I don't care much for Whitney, but I shudder at the notion that she's somehow set the women's movement back by expressing a desire to give up her career and raise a family. The women's movement was about the ability to choose. All I have to go on is her statement that her job was never as important to her as her dream to stay home and raise a family. Nothing wrong with that... 

[Kimmature]

Well said. One has to remember the people on this show are chosen for how good they look in a hot tub, not for any "connection" they might feel with the lead. It's all scripted and heavily edited. We never get to see a real convo, if there are any, just the "stuff" that Fleiss/ABC has found brings in the viewers 

I think that it's more that they avoid things that might alienate some viewers.  I'm not American, but discussing issues like sexual experience, political/religious preferences, sports interests etc are likely to turn some viewers off- ignoring actual issues and conversations doesn't cost the show anything.  I'm still a bit baffled that the Bachelor franchise is still so popular among 'Conservatives' in the U.S.- there seems to be as much chance of finding 'true love' with a random bar hookup as there is from the weird polygamous/ppolygynous emphasis of the shows.  It's not even half-assed polyamory- everything in the franchise is based on the idea that somehow all of the BS somehow might end up in a happily ever after. 

 

>I don't care much for Whitney, but I shudder at the notion that she's somehow set the women's movement back by expressing a desire to give up her career and raise a family. The women's movement was about the ability to choose. All I have to go on is her statement that her job was never as important to her as her dream to stay home and raise a family. Nothing wrong with that...

 

There's nothing about Whitney's career that can't be worked around, if she's the F1, and that her career is the most important thing to her at the moment.   Chris isn't waking up in Arlington every day to mow the fields- even in Andi's season his family made it very clear that he is not only very wealthy and has a lot of financial interests, but doesn't spend a lot of time in Arlington.  One of the funniest parts to me this season was seeing him going to LA for 'the first time" in the opening segment- apparently the producers forgot that he'd lived in the mansion for Andi's season- that's right up there with Andi's Bachelorette intro where she was fighting bad guys and very committed to 'righting wrongs', when she'd already ditched her law career.

 

And even if Whitney decided to ditch her career, move to a place with apparently no intellectual or social stimulation (from what we've seen of Arlington- it might as well be Dante's 7th circle of hell as a small town from what the producers have shown), so what?  Not every woman (or man) chooses their career as a primary goal.  From what we've seen of Whitney I tend to think that she'll land on her feet and make the best of a situation, no matter what.  I don't think that wanting to have kids or wanting to settle down with a partner is a bad thing, in the context of a person's life.  A lot of us want a partner to share things with, to go through life's journey with, and someone to be a friend, and lover. I think that she's barking up the wrong tree if she expects that out of Chris, but that is her choice, then good for her.  

[NikSac]

Hopefully I"m in the right episode thread. They have blurred together for me a bit.

 

I am clearly in the minority but I personally would have loved the "monkey date." I might've freaked if that 40lb looking one jumped on me, but in general, I would've thought it was fun. I thought it was one of Chris' cuter moments on the show where he seemed to actually cut loose, too.  Then again I visited a zoo in Mexico where they sent us with a tour guide who opened the cages and invited us in to pet the critters, so maybe I'm a little weird.

 

I'm really not sure what to think of the remaining women. If he stays in Arlington, I have a hard time seeing any of those relationships working out - it's just too much one sided sacrifice.

Edited February 28, 2015 by NikSac

[Bugs Meany]

I think that it's more that they avoid things that might alienate some viewers.  I'm not American, but discussing issues like sexual experience, political/religious preferences, sports interests etc are likely to turn some viewers off- ignoring actual issues and conversations doesn't cost the show anything.

 

That's right. "They never talk about anything 'real'" is one of the weaker criticisms of the show. Sure they do--we just don't see it.

 

It's like the "dating 25 women at the same time" nonsense that non-viewers throw around. Well, almost half of them are sent home the first night. The reality is that TB is interested in 3 or 4 women, but has to see 10+ more because them's the rules.

[PreBabylonia]

Or she can just inseminate the cows and pigs and horses and what not on the farm. Kinda the same gig, n

 

\I just had a horrible flashback to "Orphan Black." Now I remember how horrible artificial insemination really is....I wouldn't want to do that, ever. No wonder Chris seems like a viable alternative. For a year, at least. Personally, I wouldn't mind living in the country to write and raise dogs either. Too bad Chris is part of the package deal but then again, he's probably off drinking with his buddies or by himself in the corner. And to be a bit morbid about it, if he's off drinking and driving, there's always a chance you'll inherit that sizable fortune. Just as long as he doesn't take anyone else with him....

[saber5055]

And to be a bit morbid about it, if he's off drinking and driving, there's always a chance you'll inherit that sizable fortune.

 

 

Ha ha! Now we're back to that "pre-nup" thing chatted about here a few eps back.

 

That's right. "They never talk about anything 'real'" is one of the weaker criticisms of the show. Sure they do--we just don't see it.

 

 

That's so true. They film 24/7, then have to edit down to a couple hours of what TPTB feels fit the outline of the show, or the characters of the actors, I mean contestants, shown. The FS is the only place we've been told is never filmed. While everyone seems to "go there" in their minds, past contestants have said that's the one place they are able to talk about real issues and real-life dating stuff. It's not all hanky panky.

 

I'm still a bit baffled that the Bachelor franchise is still so popular among 'Conservatives' in the U.S.

 

 

I find that sentence really very interesting. Is it because subconsciously (or consciously) Americans still view women as objects that must look good in a bikini and do things to "please their man"? I do know lots of men who want women homemakers and baby makers. Even I've been told I can give up (whatever hobby or thing I do in real life) now that HE is in my life.

 

Chris did tell Jade that he works with a bunch of conservative Iowa men so was freaked about what THEY would think of Jade's photos. Funny that mattered instead of what HE thought about Jade. (Even though he, too, is a conservative Iowa man.)

Edited February 28, 2015 by saber5055

[Padma]

\I just had a horrible flashback to "Orphan Black." Now I remember how horrible artificial insemination really is....I wouldn't want to do that, ever. No wonder Chris seems like a viable alternative. For a year, at least. Personally, I wouldn't mind living in the country to write and raise dogs either. Too bad Chris is part of the package deal but then again, he's probably off drinking with his buddies or by himself in the corner....

That might make Arlington tolerable, but I don't get from Chris that someone "writing and raising dogs" (sounds good to me!) is his idea of a "wife". He seems so mentally checked out that I have a feeling you justify your existence by days full of cooking, cleaning and birthing babies, and probably something to do outdoors as well (Milk the cows? Drive a tractor?) to show you're not a lazy slob.  Whitney seems equal to any of it. Becca? Not so much.

 

Speaking of, I'm surprised Chris didn't bring Whitney to Arlington when they were so close, esp. since she was hearing it described by others. The visit in two weeks should be pretty interesting, judging from his parents' reactions on the promo. I'm looking forward to seeing more of that life (and also finding out how close Mom and Dad live.)

Edited February 28, 2015 by Padma

[Shugardrawers]

Chris seems awfully self-conscious possibly even embarrassed about being from Arlington.  I'm thinking it's probably quite true that he spends as little time there as possible.  For that reason and the reason that we'd have the money to travel most of the year, I'd consider making a tiny town like that my home base for the right man.  Now, being stuck there 365 without the means to get out and see other places?  Deal breaker for me.   

[MsPH]

A few thoughts about Becca. Although there has been a lot of discussion why Beçca's decision to wait for marriage might be a deal breaker for Chris, what I don't understand why his willingness to sleep with three women during their stay in Bali isn't a deal breaker for her. If she wants to wait for marriage for moral/religious reasons, I don't know why she isn't looking for a man whose values line up with hers a lot better than Chris' values do.

 

Just because you've decided to treat your own body (and whatever's inhabiting it) a certain way, doesn't mean you expect everyone else in your life to make the same decisions. I don't know if Becca's decision stems from religious reasons, I suspect at least partly, but she's not acting fanatical about it. I actually find that really refreshing. The media likes to portray every virgin over the age of 20 as either a freaky loser or an abstinence preaching fanatic, so I think it's great to see someone who simply knows their own worth. I would assume she's simply waiting for a man who's deserving of her, and that to her is her future husband. I can relate, though I never wanted to wait until marriage, just for someone I felt was deserving. I don't judge other people's worth based on their number of sex partners though, unless we're talking hundreds, so that wasn't what determined the deservingness. The lead rarely has sex with everyone in the FS and even if Chris did do it with the other two, it'd probably be a year at least until he got to do it with Becca. I suppose that thought is less icky than being one of the three he sampled only days apart.

[Shugardrawers]

From what I've read it seems it's just one or occasionally two who "score" in the FS.  By this point, if you're REALLY serious about proposing to someone you know who that someone is and will remain true at least bodily. Yeah, yeah.....I can dream can't I?

Edited March 1, 2015 by Shugardrawers

[jordanpond]

Just because you've decided to treat your own body (and whatever's inhabiting it) a certain way, doesn't mean you expect everyone else in your life to make the same decisions. I don't know if Becca's decision stems from religious reasons, I suspect at least partly, but she's not acting fanatical about it. I actually find that really refreshing. The media likes to portray every virgin over the age of 20 as either a freaky loser or an abstinence preaching fanatic.

I wasn't criticizing Becca, nor do I think she's being a fanatic. Quite the contrary! And I agree with you that virgins are often portrayed as losers or fanatics, and in my opinion, this is both inaccurate and unfair.

I think that the term "waiting for marriage" usually implies a moral decision, as opposed to someone who "just hasn't had sex yet." And I think anyone who is waiting for marriage for moral reasons might be a lot happier looking for someone who has similar values with respect to this. We all seem to think that our values with a prospective spouse should line up on all sorts of topics, so why not this one, too? I don't think that Becca looking for a man with a similar desire to wait for marriage would imply that she is being a fanatic. Rather, it just seems to me like it might lead to a greater chance for happiness than being with a man like Chris, whose values seem like a major mismatch to hers on this topic.

[saber5055]

From what I've read it seems it's just one or occasionally two who "score" in the FS.  By this point, if you're REALLY serious about proposing to someone you know who that someone is and will remain true at least bodily.

 

 

I've read the same. Ex-bettes have said that's the only time a couple is able to talk privately, and private time is important to establishing a relationship, if there is going to be one. The viewing public thinks just because cameras are not rolling and the doors and shades are shut and drawn, people are having sex. What naughty minds the majority of tv watchers have! Just proves a point that (most) people are obsessed with sex, and women who look good in a bikini. Fleiss wins.

[chocolatine]

What naughty minds the majority of tv watchers have!

 

 

In earlier season I remember the editors pasting in footage of erupting volcanoes or trains going through tunnels, so the perception that sex took place can't be blamed entirely on the audience's dirty minds.

[saber5055]

In earlier season I remember the editors pasting in footage of erupting volcanoes or trains going through tunnels, so the perception that sex took place can't be blamed entirely on the audience's dirty minds.

 

 

You are so correct, Chocolatine. Who could ever forget that train that was on the "fast track" outside Sean's wedding-night window? The editing monkeys do have a lot to do with our perceptions ... including whether someone is good/bad, in love/there for the right/wrong reasons. We are all victims of manipulation! LOL!

Edited March 1, 2015 by saber5055

[MsPH]

I wasn't criticizing Becca, nor do I think she's being a fanatic. Quite the contrary! And I agree with you that virgins are often portrayed as losers or fanatics, and in my opinion, this is both inaccurate and unfair.

I think that the term "waiting for marriage" usually implies a moral decision, as opposed to someone who "just hasn't had sex yet." And I think anyone who is waiting for marriage for moral reasons might be a lot happier looking for someone who has similar values with respect to this. We all seem to think that our values with a prospective spouse should line up on all sorts of topics, so why not this one, too? I don't think that Becca looking for a man with a similar desire to wait for marriage would imply that she is being a fanatic. Rather, it just seems to me like it might lead to a greater chance for happiness than being with a man like Chris, whose values seem like a major mismatch to hers on this topic.

 

I have to respectfully disagree with your last sentence. When and with whom a person decides to have sex with is a strictly personal decision and not something others can dictate. Virginity isn't a value, and unless you think all premarital sex is immoral, it isn't even a moral dilemma. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that Becca finds premarital sex immoral, just because she doesn't wish to engage in it herself. There are plenty of other reasons, practical and emotional, which get overshadowed by the abstinence and purity movement. If Becca wanted to limit her dating pool to other virgins, she wouldn't be on this show in the first place. She seems like a sensible young woman, so I would assume she realises that dismissing people based on personal decisions that have no real effect on a relationship is pure madness. It's hard enough to find a good match as it is without having a list of deal breakers. No one is perfect after all. As long as two people are on the same page once in a relationship that should be all that matters. Even born-again virgin Sean, who I would consider a religious fanatic, went on the show to compete with 24 other men for one woman, and once he became the lead, didn't ask for a cast of 25 virgins. I don't see how it's any more strange for Becca to be on this show than Sean. I remember her saying on some date that she wouldn't have gone on the show if it wasn't for Chris, so I guess she sees something worthwhile in him. Hard for me to imagine what that is, but luckily I don't have to.

[backformore]

I've read the same. Ex-bettes have said that's the only time a couple is able to talk privately, and private time is important to establishing a relationship, if there is going to be one. The viewing public thinks just because cameras are not rolling and the doors and shades are shut and drawn, people are having sex. What naughty minds the majority of tv watchers have! Just proves a point that (most) people are obsessed with sex, and women who look good in a bikini. Fleiss wins.

I suspect that at least in some cases, the fantasy suite date might include some straight talk about not being chosen, about the connection with another being stronger, the "you're great but I'm in love with someone else" speech. Or am I alone in thinking someone on this show might be honest?

[pitchy]

That high school may get band uniforms yet! 

 

I think Whitney explained herself pretty well to Chris -- admittedly at high pitched, top speed.  She said something about always wanting to be a stay-at-home wife and mother, but her family told her she should have some sort of professional training, "to fall back on"  in case "something went wrong."  So I don't really think Whitney believes she's giving up her dreams and a great life in the city to marry Chris.  I think she feels she's finally getting to the life she's always dreamed of.

 

Add that very early on, she said she joined the show because she liked Chris and wouldn't have otherwise.  

[chocolatine]

Add that very early on, she said she joined the show because she liked Chris and wouldn't have otherwise.

 

 

But she didn't know for sure that it would be Chris when she applied to be on the show. The selection process for Chris's season started while Andi's season was still in its early stages, so at that point the next Bachelor could also have been Nick, Josh, Marquel, or even Arie. I believe TPTB narrow down the group of applicants to 50 or so first before they even tell them who the lead is going to be. The applicants then have the chance to take themselves out of the running if they don't like the lead, but by that point, how many actually do vs. saying "eh, I still get to be on TV"?

Edited March 1, 2015 by chocolatine

[pitchy]

But she didn't know for sure that it would be Chris when she applied to be on the show. The selection process for Chris's season started while Andi's season was still in its early stages, so at that point the next Bachelor could also have been Nick, Josh, Marquel, or even Arie. I believe TPTB narrow down the group of applicants to 50 or so first before they even tell them who the lead is going to be. The applicants then have the chance to take themselves out of the running if they don't like the lead, but by that point, how many actually do vs. saying "eh, I still get to be on TV"?

 

Well, if she genuinely joined because she wanted a chance at Chris and found out it would be one of the others, I can see that someone like her (who is not the type to join Bachelors in Paradise just to be on TV) might have decided not to go ahead with it (which she implied would have happened if Chris wasn't chosen)..

She does seem different from the usual and wasn't into the drama and was not into making sure she was getting TV time by giving the TH camera people 'good' material.

[chocolatine]

YMMV, but to me she seems like someone who just wants a successful husband. You could sub any other wealthy, somewhat decent looking man for Chris, and Whitney would act the same way and pretend she's into all the things he's into. I don't see any genuine connection between them, just Whitney working REALLY hard to make him like her and Chris enjoying the adulation.

[backformore]

YMMV, but to me she seems like someone who just wants a successful husband. You could sub any other wealthy, somewhat decent looking man for Chris, and Whitney would act the same way and pretend she's into all the things he's into. I don't see any genuine connection between them, just Whitney working REALLY hard to make him like her and Chris enjoying the adulation.

It  seems to me that every season. many of the women start out determined that they WILL fall in love with the Bachelor (no matter who he is)  and he WILL fall in love with them.  And then they put everything they have into making that happen.   

[MsPH]

I'm just wondering why Whitney hasn't already found herself a successful man in Chicago. It's not like it's a small town lacking in men. Considering how social she is, if she's ready to marry and have kids yesterday, then you'd think she would've already found one closer to her precious job. I think that's why her sister was looking at her like a crazy person, when she said she's totally willing to live in Arlington for Chris. Have we heard anything about her previous relationships? I don't remember.

[Mu Shu]

I agree, MsPH. Whitney has quite a pool of if not wealthy, at least successful men to draw from. IMO, a radiologist from Chicago would be a far better catch than Chris, Even if he does make a lot bigger income.

[chocolatine]

In Chicago she's a small fish in a big pond. I think in big cities men who are millionaires, reasonably attractive, and in their early 30s have their pick of women who are far more attractive and younger than Whitney, AND at that age they still tend to date casually rather than settling down and having kids right away. Whereas with someone like Chris, who's from a rural area with apparently few attractive single women and where people tend to settle down at a younger age, Whitney has an advantage.

Edited March 2, 2015 by chocolatine

[Padma]

In Chicago she's a small fish in a big pond. I think in big cities men who are millionaires, reasonably attractive, and in their early 30s have their pick of women who are far more attractive and younger than Whitney, AND at that age they still tend to date casually rather than settling down and having kids right away. Whereas with someone like Chris, who's from a rural area with apparently few attractive single women and where people tend to settle down at a younger age, Whitney has an advantage.

This may all be true, but when I look at the relative attractiveness, smarts and appeal of Whitney v. Chris, I think he'd be marrying up, not her. It's not necessarily easy to meet great guys even in a big city (and the men she meets through work are probably mostly the married clients). But since I don't think Chris is a "great guy" either, it still seems like she could have done better in Chicago. But, of course, since Chris is leading the conversations, we don't know much about these women's lives, relationships, beliefs, or much else. Much as I disliked Andi, or even Sean, I have to admit they did a much better job of being TB.

 

He is one of the dullest men ever. I don't care how much money he has, I feel sorry for whoever winds up with him. No matter what someone tells him--"I'm saving myself for marriage"...."My mother died tragically"..."I was a Playboy model"--his reactions are completely uninteresting --and amazingly interchangeable.

[archer1267]

I'm just wondering why Whitney hasn't already found herself a successful man in Chicago.

 

 

In her "Meet Whitney" video, she said that men in Chicago don't seem ready for marriage. That seemed like a big sweeping generalization, but I don't live there :)

 

I believe TPTB narrow down the group of applicants to 50 or so first before they even tell them who the lead is going to be.

 

 

How long have they been doing that? I watched Ashley's Bachelorette season and got the impression that the men were expecting someone from Brad Womack's season, but didn't know who…and didn't know until they stepped out of the limo. And Ashley stressed about the possibility that many of them had come expecting Emily or Chantal. 

Edited March 2, 2015 by archer1267

[leighdear]

Archer1267,

There are plenty of blog posts and stories on the Net written by cast hopefuls.  The last one I read came from a Reality Steve link, though there are no spoilers in it.  I'd be happy to send you the link in a PM, just for safety's sake.

[toyfoof]

Delurking to comment that Whitney is spot-on about Chicago men. I lived there for 8 years, in my late 20s/early 30s, and the dating situation is abysmal for women. Sure, there are lots of super attractive, successful men, but there are also even more attractive single women and most of the men seem to treat the whole thing like a buffet, always coming back to try something (someone) else. My friends and I had a theory that the men who move to Chicago in their 20s and 30s do so because they want to continue living like they did in college -- all fun and games and no commitment.

 

There are a few needles in the haystack, but it's really hard (and depressing in the process) to find them. I moved away, and one of my girlfriends found a great guy, but several of my friends are still there, single, miserable.

 

Not that I think Chris is some great catch. I'd personally rather be single in Chicago than stuck with that lump. But if Whitney's priority is to get married and have babies, then she probably is willing to settle for some lumpiness.

[backformore]

In Chicago she's a small fish in a big pond. I think in big cities men who are millionaires, reasonably attractive, and in their early 30s have their pick of women who are far more attractive and younger than Whitney, AND at that age they still tend to date casually rather than settling down and having kids right away. Whereas with someone like Chris, who's from a rural area with apparently few attractive single women and where people tend to settle down at a younger age, Whitney has an advantage.

I'm curious as to why you specify "millionaires".   Yes, if Whitney wanted to, she could find a nice normal guy in chicago.  I work with a bunch of them. Educated, smart, funny guys.  But maybe not a millionaire.  And you know what they say about Chicago women?  That they're all looking for a guy who can buy them a huge ring, a nice car, can pay for vacations, etc.   Lots of people settle down and raise a family without being millionaires. Lots of guys are looking to get married.  

 

I know Chris is reportedly a millionaire, but  does that mean that was her criteria for a husband?  Chicago is huge, making generalizations - all the women want a rich guy, all the men want to play the field, is just succumbing to stereotypes and not seeing individual differences.  

 

Yeah - I married a Chicago guy. And he married a Chicago girl.  He was eager to settle down, and I married him despite his lack of millions. :)

[chocolatine]

I said millionaires because Chris is one. If we're honest, that's the only appealing thing about him and the reason why most of the women didn't leave in the second week after realizing how dull he is. As much as Whitney pays lip service to her career, I get the impression that she can't wait to quit her job to become a Stepford wife and mother. Maybe she wasn't strictly looking for millionaires in Chicago, but she was certainly looking for someone who could comfortably support her and her future children.

Edited March 2, 2015 by chocolatine

[Mu Shu]

In Chicago she's a small fish in a big pond. I think in big cities men who are millionaires, reasonably attractive, and in their early 30s have their pick of women who are far more attractive and younger than Whitney, AND at that age they still tend to date casually rather than settling down and having kids right away. Whereas with someone like Chris, who's from a rural area with apparently few attractive single women and where people tend to settle down at a younger age, Whitney has an advantage.

Oh good god. Whitney is far more attractive than I am, and lives in a far bigger metro. I had my share of eligible men interested, so I'm sure she can easily find a suitable man. You make it sound like she's over the hill. Plenty of women with less to offer than Whitney find suitable men.

[reggiejax]

Yeah - I married a Chicago guy. And he married a Chicago girl.  He was eager to settle down, and I married him despite his lack of millions. :)

 

 

Whitney's Chicago is likely different than yours. I know it is very different than mine.

 

Me, I was born and raised here, and I will die here. And I am from the city, not one of the suburbs, which always puzzled people I met in college. 

 

Whitney, on the other hand, is from Kentucky. I don't know where she went to college, but it wouldn't surprise me if she went to a Big 10 school. She is one of many young people who move here to get their careers started and to also have the time of their lives during their 20's. But eventually, at some point past those days of youthful indiscretion, they do get on with life. Marry, have babies, move to the burbs, etc. Whitney is 29, so it is no shock she is at that point and raring to go. 

 

And I don't say any of this about Whitney with any judgement or criticism. Chicago is the greatest city in the world (sorry Arlington) and new arrivals who come to get their start here is part of the lifeblood of the city. But her situation definitely explains her mindset, about where she is in her life, her willingness to go all in with Chris, and with her generalization of "Chicago men". I have no doubt the men in her social circle (a circle I could never be a part of)  aren't nearly as marriage minded as she is. They will of course get there, but they are clearly not on Whitney's schedule. In all honesty, it doesn't surprise me that she and Chris get on so famously. I could easily see Chris being the type of guy she would socialize with in Chicago, had Chris chosen to move there rather than run the family farm. And I do think Chris is at the marriage and family point, regardless of whatever fame whore tendencies he may have. 

Edited March 4, 2015 by reggiejax