S03.E02: Baggage

[Guest]

I used to serve drinks in the 80s so I kind of chuckled at them letting her list all the beers.  People do that to you all the time.  I didn't hear micro brews, but I didn't listen closely.  I heard Yuengling but that's a huge PA brewery.  I did balk at him ordering "two Millers" and her serving them two Miller Lites.  

 

The crunching sounded more like when you break up a raw chicken than a rotisserie one.  Which it should.  

 

 

[Milburn Stone]

I wasn't sure the point of that scene anyway.  Was there some meaning I missed, besides maybe just some light comedy as she had to name them all off, on her mentioning a bunch of beers to choose from before he chose? 

 

I thought the scene had a comedic point until the microbrews (which I agree were anachronistic) came into the picture. And I was smiling at it. The point seemed to be, "Hey, there once was a time you could have any beer you wanted, provided it came from Anheuser Busch or Miller Brewing Company." And that would have been a funny point. Then they wrecked their own joke, and made it pointless.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Milburn Stone

[Blakeston]

I think the list of beers (like the candy bar stuff) was a reference to American consumerism.

 

It's not unusual to hear visitors to the US comment on the number of varieties of products available (like the huge number of cereal options at a typical supermarket). It's usually a sentiment along the lines of, "Who needs all of those choices? Is it really necessary?"

 

There would never be a list of beers like that at a Soviet bar, and the die-hard Soviets would probably strongly disapprove of such a thing.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Blakeston

[Crazy8]

I swear I've had empathic joint pain since watching poor Annalise being packed into that suitcase. Truly horrifying, but that is Philip's ultimate fear for Paige and it's clearly valid. At least Elizabeth had some degree of choice when she was 16. What happens to their daughter if they tell her who she really is and she freaks out and tells someone? That's one hell of a dilemma!

Guess how they got that Institute lady out of Russia is some kind of foreshadowing of how Stan and Oleg might try to get Nina out.

[Umbelina]

If she was being asked to join the CIA or FBI by her (she thinks, AMERICAN) mom it might make a bit more sense. 

 

Elizabeth is so blind on this whole thing.  They are selling it so far, but much more and it could lean towards the ridiculous.

 

Here, honey, SURPRISE!  We are Soviet spies, and we'd like you to join us and be a traitor to the only country you've ever known too!  Wheee!

Edited February 8, 2015 by Umbelina

[madam magpie]

If she was being asked to join the CIA or FBI by her (she thinks, AMERICAN) mom it might make a bit more sense. 

 

Elizabeth is so blind on this whole thing.  They are selling it so far, but much more and it could lean towards the ridiculous.

 

Here, honey, SURPRISE!  We are Soviet spies, and we'd like you to join us and be a traitor to the only country you've ever known too!  Wheee!

 

This is what confuses me the most. I mean...what do the Soviets/Elizabeth (assuming she's on board) actually think? That Paige is suddenly going to switch allegiance? I feel like maybe they're going to try to blackmail her into it. That's the only explanation that makes any sense.

[gwhh]

I am getting tired of everyone getting down on stan. He an ok guy. He just clueless at home!

Maybe we can send Oleg over the Stan wife hippie peacenik boyfriend and have him killed. Than him and his wife can start over.

[Blakeston]

If she was being asked to join the CIA or FBI by her (she thinks, AMERICAN) mom it might make a bit more sense. 

 

Elizabeth is so blind on this whole thing.  They are selling it so far, but much more and it could lean towards the ridiculous.

 

Here, honey, SURPRISE!  We are Soviet spies, and we'd like you to join us and be a traitor to the only country you've ever known too!  Wheee!

 

Not to mention that we're supposed to believe that the last time they tried this, the kid was so unbelievably enthusiastic that he killed his parents because they wouldn't let him be a Soviet spy.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Blakeston

[DrSpaceman]

I think the list of beers (like the candy bar stuff) was a reference to American consumerism.

 

It's not unusual to hear visitors to the US comment on the number of varieties of products available (like the huge number of cereal options at a typical supermarket). It's usually a sentiment along the lines of, "Who needs all of those choices? Is it really necessary?"

 

There would never be a list of beers like that at a Soviet bar, and the die-hard Soviets would probably strongly disapprove of such a thing.

I think you are right, I think this is where they were going with this minor tidbit, except as pointed out, the writers were probably too young to realize the wide variety of beers now available in bars did not exist back in the early 80s.

[Guest]

The writers are very aware of what the period they're writing for was like, I think.  Bars did have a lot of beers then, too.  

 

Here is one list I googled up, from a viewer of the ep:  

 

Bud, Bud Light, Coors, Coors Light, Miller, Miller Lite, Natty Light, Michelob Light, Sierra Nevada, PBR, Rolling Rock, Stevens Point, Yuengling, Lord Chesterfield, Genesee Cream, Schaefer, New Albion, Heineken, Guinness

 

New Albion, Natty Light and Sierra Nevada were pretty new to market but I think the others are all old brands.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Guest

[Blakeston]

To be fair, I don't think they expected us to believe that. It was more that the kid just became unhinged at his parents lying to him and he grabbed onto his Russian girlfriend giving him purpose, so when his parents then said no all his rage came out. He killed not only them but his sister--imo because that way she wouldn't ever have to learn the truth about them like he did. (I know he said he was "protecting his cover" but obviously he was just an insane teenager murdering his parents.)

 

I'm inclined to think that if the writers wanted us to believe that Jared killed his sister to save her from heartbreak, they would have had Jared say that.

 

Regardless of why he killed her, though, we're supposed to believe that he was absolutely desperate to become a Soviet spy, despite being raised in America, and knowing that his Soviet parents lied to him relentlessly, and were against ever letting him know the truth.

 

why would he lie and say that he killed her because she would have gone to the police? Saying "I did it for her own good" would have made him sound like less of a jackass then "I killed her to save my own ass."

[shura]

She's useful in that she's a Soviet who worked for an important Soviet institution who defected (or at least says she defected) because of the USSR's involvement in Afghanistan. That's the PR value the US seem to be looking for.

 

I don't know, it doesn't sound like very much to me. If that's all there is, then I would never go ahead and smuggle her out of the USSR. Imagine if the operation to bring her to the States got discovered by the Soviets. They would have had a huge PR coup - the Americans are kidnapping people out of the USSR, they are using diplomatic shipments (I assumed that was the reason why the container was not checked) in violation of all Vienna conventions, here's factual proof! Is this risk worth it if the only value she brings is being able to say "A lady nobody has ever heard of, who used to work in a place that doesn't ring any bells with the general public (but trust us, it's important!), disagrees with the Soviet policy on Afghanistan"?

Edited February 9, 2015 by shura

[Dev F]

Regardless of why he killed her, though, we're supposed to believe that he was absolutely desperate to become a Soviet spy, despite being raised in America, and knowing that his Soviet parents lied to him relentlessly, and were against ever letting him know the truth.

 

I thought the idea is that he wanted to become a spy because he discovered that his parents lied to him relentlessly, not despite of it. That seems to be the tack Kate took to seduce him -- that unlike his folks, she was the one who really trusted him and believed in him, and he should trust and believe in her in turn. He definitely seemed to be fueled by resentment toward his family and a desire to please his hot older girlfriend rather than any strong ideological leanings.

 

Which is the main reason why Elizabeth wants to turn Paige herself, I think. She spent all of last season watching both of her children pull away from her and Philip thanks to their lies and neglect. She already imagines that her churchy-churchy daughter is being seduced by an influence just as pernicious as a honeypotting spy. To her mind, coming clean with Paige is a way to prevent her from ending up like Jared.

[PinkRibbons]

I realize this is a bit off-the-present-topic, but I have to say, ever since this episode aired, I've been wondering exactly what part of Philip's coded message over the phone in the early part of the episode meant explicitly "bring a big suitcase and a tarp". "Moving files" seems to be it, I think...but perhaps he conveyed something else as well in that message, something that meant simply "operation has gone tits-up, am playing speed chess to keep things cool."

[sistermagpie]

I realize this is a bit off-the-present-topic, but I have to say, ever since this episode aired, I've been wondering exactly what part of Philip's coded message over the phone in the early part of the episode meant explicitly "bring a big suitcase and a tarp". "Moving files" seems to be it, I think...but perhaps he conveyed something else as well in that message, something that meant simply "operation has gone tits-up, am playing speed chess to keep things cool."

 

 

Didn't he say something like "way more work here than I thought?" or something like that? I seem to remember thinking that was the "operation gone tits-up" part and "moving files" was "help me get rid of the tits."

[Mozelle]

I think part of it was rigor, but they also had to dislocate/rearrange some of her joints to get her into the suitcase. And even as a medical professional, I had to plug my ears and say "La-la-la-la!" during the crunching sounds.  I'm sure my facial exprressions matched Yousef's.

 

 

I had to do the same thing. It was too gruesome for me, and I had to play this guessing game of "Do I look now? Do I unplug my ears now?" hoping not to miss any dialogue. 

[RedHawk]

I wasn't sure the point of that scene anyway.  Was there some meaning I missed, besides maybe just some light comedy as she had to name them all off, on her mentioning a bunch of beers to choose from before he chose?

I think they were letting her go on and on so that they could casually look around the bar while it seemed like they were listening to the waitress.

 

 

Yes, it did give them a chance to glance around, but also it was a great callback to the days when a waitress would reel off a long list of those sad choices "Bud, Bud Lite, Coors, Coors Lite, Miller, Miller Lite, Becks, Yuengling..." and usually people would order one of the first few anyway. It was indeed comedy.

[Irlandesa]

The writers are very aware of what the period they're writing for was like, I think.  Bars did have a lot of beers then, too.  

 

Here is one list I googled up, from a viewer of the ep:  

 

Bud, Bud Light, Coors, Coors Light, Miller, Miller Lite, Natty Light, Michelob Light, Sierra Nevada, PBR, Rolling Rock, Stevens Point, Yuengling, Lord Chesterfield, Genesee Cream, Schaefer, New Albion, Heineken, Guinness

 

New Albion, Natty Light and Sierra Nevada were pretty new to market but I think the others are all old brands.

I hail from WI and the beer brewed in Stevens Point isn't called Stevens Point but rather Point beer.  I am not aware if it ever being called Stevens Point.  So unless there is some other beer brand out there that happens to share the name of the town where Point beer is brewed, "Stevens Point" on the show simultaneously made my ears perk up and then get irritated that they got the name wrong. 

[Blakeston]

I thought the idea is that he wanted to become a spy because he discovered that his parents lied to him relentlessly, not despite of it. That seems to be the tack Kate took to seduce him -- that unlike his folks, she was the one who really trusted him and believed in him, and he should trust and believe in her in turn. He definitely seemed to be fueled by resentment toward his family and a desire to please his hot older girlfriend rather than any strong ideological leanings.

 

Which is the main reason why Elizabeth wants to turn Paige herself, I think. She spent all of last season watching both of her children pull away from her and Philip thanks to their lies and neglect. She already imagines that her churchy-churchy daughter is being seduced by an influence just as pernicious as a honeypotting spy. To her mind, coming clean with Paige is a way to prevent her from ending up like Jared.

 

I get that's what the writers wanted us to believe. I just don't buy it, personally.

 

If a kid was raised in the US, and encouraged all his life to be a patriotic citizen, and then found out that his parents were communist spies, and he was angry about being lied to, then personally, I don't think he'd be willing to become a spy for their anti-American organization. I don't think he'd fall head over heels for a woman from their organization, especially if she was the one who gave him the crushing news that his parents lied to him.

 

(I also don't buy that the big confrontation would happen in a hotel room when his sister was there - but I could go on for a while about that plotline.)

[lucindabelle]

I hated the whole he did it himself and offed his whole family reveal for reasons I've stated many times so won't again but didn't he do it because they were going to separate him from his sexual seducer, and he's a teenager?

Milky ways are not just chocolate, but chocolate plus other things, in a way that says "rich country" because to meld things together takes money, I totally buy the instant love.

Fwiw, I love British versions of American candy bars because beitish chocolate has more milk in it and can still be called chocolate than American does.

And when I lived in Europe I could never get anyone to see the point of a. Good, halloween dark Hershey bar. A German kid accepted a twizzler but spit it out, he'd only taken it to be polite. And I thought wow I guess if you didn't grow up with twizzler s they might really feel like red wax...

I so want a Milky Way now.

How can Elizabeth agree to let her daughter become a spy knowing it will mean she's skeeping with people to be a honey trap? I just don't see how she can want that for her.

The lack of accent thing continues to baffle me.

[chocolatine]

A German kid accepted a twizzler but spit it out, he'd only taken it to be polite. 

 

Did you by any chance tell him the Twizzler was "licorice"? German licorice is completely different from American licorice (I think it's disgusting and shouldn't be allowed to classify itself as candy, but Germans love it for some weird reason), so the Twizzler would have tasted not at all like he expected.

[wonderwoman]

Re the beer list: I thought the fact that they ordered Miller, was a nod to Margo Martindale, who left the she show to do "The Millers" on CBS. Loving Frank Langella, but now that "The Millers" has been cancelled, I'm hoping we'll see Claudia again.

Edited February 14, 2015 by wonderwoman

[Totale]

Re the beer list: I thought the fact that they ordered Miller, was a nod to Margo Martindale, who left the she show to do "The Millers" on CBS. Loving Frank Langella, but now that "The Millers" has been cancelled, I'm hoping we'll see Claudia again.

 

I like Margo, too, but since Philip and Langella were also drinking Millers together I put it down to product placement.

 

The problem with new Hunky guy as Paige-involver is that he's got ten years on her and neither P nor E is going to play that.

[BW Manilowe]

Re the beer list: I thought the fact that they ordered Miller, was a nod to Margo Martindale, who left the she show to do "The Millers" on CBS. Loving Frank Langella, but now that "The Millers" has been cancelled, I'm hoping we'll see Claudia again.

The TVLine.com site announced 3 days ago (the 11th) that Margo will be back as Claudia this season. But it sounds like it's only for an ep (so far, anyway).:

http://tvline.com/2015/02/11/the-americans-season-3-margo-martindale-returns-claudia/

The last comment in the Comments thread claims Margo was on this week's ep... Which she wasn't because nobody's talking about it. So I'm wondering just what ep the commenter was watching (or what they were smoking, if you get my drift) if they think they saw her on this week's ep.

[stillshimpy]

The last comment in the Comments thread claims Margo was on this week's ep... Which she wasn't because nobody's talking about it. So I'm wondering just what ep the commenter was watching (or what they were smoking, if you get my drift) if they think they saw her on this week's ep.

 

Was she perhaps in the "Previously On" segment?  

[BW Manilowe]

Was she perhaps in the "Previously On" segment?

That's entirely possible, & something I'm not positive of. But I'm not sure I'd count that as being on this week's episode. Especially since it's a scene from last season & I think it's also been in the "Previously On..." recaps in every, or every other, ep so far this season. To me, the poster made it sound as if Claudia was part of the actual plot of the ep this week... Which she wasn't.

[Archery]

I don't understand what Philip does want for Paige. They can't send her to Russia, and I can't imagine he'd want her to go to college just to buy into the American dream. What does that leave for her besides serving Russia in some capacity?

[Umbelina]

A normal life, never knowing about her parents occupation, never having to deal with the crap he and Elizabeth deal with every day.  Pretty much what all parents want for their kids.  They will continue to spy, Paige will grow up and lead her own life, probably in America.  Philip likes America, or at least the opportunities, available toilet paper and fruit, and the government not deciding your job or housing.

[sistermagpie]

I don't understand what Philip does want for Paige. They can't send her to Russia, and I can't imagine he'd want her to go to college just to buy into the American dream. What does that leave for her besides serving Russia in some capacity?

 

 

I agree with Umbelina. He's fine with Paige growing up as an American, Christian, whatever. He's, I think, accepted that this is something that will always separate them. He and Elizabeth both see themselves as having a duty to deny or sacrifice things, they just do it in a slightly different way.

[Hecate7]

I agree with Umbelina. He's fine with Paige growing up as an American, Christian, whatever. He's, I think, accepted that this is something that will always separate them. He and Elizabeth both see themselves as having a duty to deny or sacrifice things, they just do it in a slightly different way.

 

Of course he wants her to go to college. And Elizabeth probably wants her to, too. The two of them got a great education. They would want their kids to have one, too.

[stillshimpy]

He's fine with Paige growing up as an American, Christian, whatever.

 

I agree, he wants her to grow up in America and live a very American life.  I don't think we know a lot about Phillip's background in Russia, but I don't get the sense he's as devoted to memories of "home" .  Phillip did, however, spectacularly flip his shit over Paige and the church, so I think he'd rather she wasn't practicing any religion.  Paige would barely talk to him after that big blow out over the bible, which makes me wonder how Paige would handle knowing her mom has only been pretending to be open to her faith. 

 

By the way, on the subject of beers, I was just so delighted that they actually named brands.  Nothing tends to distract me more in a bar scene than someone ordering "a beer" and being give some generic, unnamed beer to avoid any product placement conflicts. So I was pretty tickled by the list of beers. 

[sistermagpie]

Phillip did, however, spectacularly flip his shit over Paige and the church, so I think he'd rather she wasn't practicing any religion.  Paige would barely talk to him after that big blow out over the bible, which makes me wonder how Paige would handle knowing her mom has only been pretending to be open to her faith.

 

 

I honestly didn't get the impression in that scene that religion was the problem. He doesn't want her being religious, of course, since it's something he just finds vaguely disturbing. But I think what set him off was that he was in really bad shape after killing several people the night before and then Paige hit him with "You guys never help anybody" and accused him of not knowing lies from truth and he flipped out over his daughter rejecting him and hitting him in his sore spot.

 

So while I don't think he's happy about her being Christian, he thinks he has to suck it up. Remember when the whole thing first started Philip was the reasonable one about it. It just takes more to get down to his unreasonable places. (I wonder if the same isn't true about his memories of home--they're just stuffed down and buried in his mind so he never thinks about them.

 

But as you say, if Paige finds out what's going on she would possibly see that Philip was the more honest (relatively!) of the two, and the one who took her faith seriously rather than something that needed to be corrected. He lied, but he didn't try to manipulate her in this underhanded way. In fact, while we've gotten Elizabeth spouting the party line about religion it would be interesting if Philip gave his own real feelings about it. I mean, like in S1 where he just seemed to find the whole thing false without having emotions about it. He has emotions about Paige, but not religion in general except in practical ways.

[fastiller]

Phillip did, however, spectacularly flip his shit over Paige and the church, so I think he'd rather she wasn't practicing any religion.  Paige would barely talk to him after that big blow out over the bible, which makes me wonder how Paige would handle knowing her mom has only been pretending to be open to her faith. 

 

 

So while I don't think he's happy about her being Christian, he thinks he has to suck it up. Remember when the whole thing first started Philip was the reasonable one about it. It just takes more to get down to his unreasonable places. (I wonder if the same isn't true about his memories of home--they're just stuffed down and buried in his mind so he never thinks about them.

 

But as you say, if Paige finds out what's going on she would possibly see that Philip was the more honest (relatively!) of the two, and the one who took her faith seriously rather than something that needed to be corrected. He lied, but he didn't try to manipulate her in this underhanded way. In fact, while we've gotten Elizabeth spouting the party line about religion it would be interesting if Philip gave his own real feelings about it. I mean, like in S1 where he just seemed to find the whole thing false without having emotions about it. He has emotions about Paige, but not religion in general except in practical ways.

Both P&E reacted to Paige in precisely the same way my parents - both semi-practicing Catholics ('cafeteria' Catholics) - did when my oldest brother 'found' God.  i think it's a natural reaction for parents to react this way when a child takes a path that the parents didn't have in mind for him/her.  A friend's Dad was really upset when his son decided to become a cop instead of the engineer that the father thought he should.

[stillshimpy]

Both P&E reacted to Paige in precisely the same way my parents - both semi-practicing Catholics ('cafeteria' Catholics) - did when my oldest brother 'found' God.  i think it's a natural reaction for parents to react this way when a child takes a path that the parents didn't have in mind for him/her.  A friend's Dad was really upset when his son decided to become a cop instead of the engineer that the father thought he should.

 

Absolutely, it would be a natural way to react, with perhaps less heat, but still.  

 

However, the point is that if Paige finds out that her parents are Soviet Spies, which at least Elizabeth is in favor of doing, there are reasons specific to being Soviets that might color how Paige views those reactions.  Also, being Soviet spies actually informed and influenced their reactions.  

 

Part of the narrative this season is the Center continuing to press for Paige to be recruited and told the truth about her parents (in whatever order that might go) ...and there are reasons related to Paige's involvement in her church and how her parents reacted to that, that might have an impact on how Paige would then view their reactions.  Also, Paige's involvement in her church might color how she views Soviet Russia...by kind of a lot potentially. 

I can't see this episode thread title without thinking of the "Annalise in a Valise" quip that someone here came up with and boy is that ever case in point for how a person thinks a revelation will go, vs. how it actually went down.  Annalise had every reason to believe that Yousef loved her and he really may have.  That didn't cause him to hesitate for more than ten seconds or so in murdering her though and I've admitted, I ended getting a Gallows Humor sort of laugh out of that guy stuffing her into a suitcase with grim determination, right alongside P&E.  That said, poor Annalise had an idealists view of how revealing the truth to him was going to go down, and it was...misguided by a lot.  

Edited February 18, 2015 by stillshimpy

[sistermagpie]

I can't see this episode thread title without thinking of the "Annalise in a Valise" quip that someone here came up with and boy is that ever case in point for how a person thinks a revelation will go, vs. how it actually went down.  Annalise had every reason to believe that Yousef loved her and he really may have.  That didn't cause him to hesitate for more than ten seconds or so in murdering her though and I've admitted, I ended getting a Gallows Humor sort of laugh out of that guy stuffing her into a suitcase with grim determination, right alongside P&E.  That said, poor Annalise had an idealists view of how revealing the truth to him was going to go down, and it was...misguided by a lot.

 

 

Oh wow. What a fantastic point I'd definitely never thought of. Annelise totally was like Elizabeth were her naive views of how somebody would react to them telling them the truth. She even says, "It's not what you think...I'm a really important person!" When of course it's exactly what Yousef thinks (Annelise is the one who doesn't even know what she's doing).

 

Plus with the War in Afghanistan America's playing the narrative of these religious people having atheists come in to take their God away--the show brought up the God issue way back in Comrades when Philip faces the Afghanis there too. Current problems between the US and those same God-loving people are far in the future so right now Paige is likely to side with them against the Soviets. And even see her parents as wanting to do the same thing to her. (As opposed to the Communists seeing the Church as a tool of the Czar to keep down the people.)

 

All these people have their own narratives of what they're living--I think that's especially true of Elizabeth and Paige who like seeing themselves as heroes in a battle of good vs. evil or right vs. wrong. Paige knows that her parents aren't religious but, like Elizabeth, thinks they can find common ground on the social aspects of the church. But Paige also seems to need the sense of belonging to the church just as Elizabeth needs to belong to her own movement. It's Philip who tends to get associated more with loners with their own ideas.

[BW Manilowe]

I agree, he wants her to grow up in America and live a very American life. I don't think we know a lot about Phillip's background in Russia, but I don't get the sense he's as devoted to memories of "home" . Phillip did, however, spectacularly flip his shit over Paige and the church, so I think he'd rather she wasn't practicing any religion. Paige would barely talk to him after that big blow out over the bible, which makes me wonder how Paige would handle knowing her mom has only been pretending to be open to her faith.

By the way, on the subject of beers, I was just so delighted that they actually named brands. Nothing tends to distract me more in a bar scene than someone ordering "a beer" and being give some generic, unnamed beer to avoid any product placement conflicts. So I was pretty tickled by the list of beers.

I linked a new interview with Matthew, from The Hollywood Reporter, over in the Media thread earlier today--in my post I mention his other comment about how the show isn't winning any awards 'cause (Matthew says) they're (people connected to the show) sleeping with the wrong people. Matthew talks, in this interview, about the scene where Philip tears up Paige's Bible.

[stillshimpy]

I just read it and he basically says that it does have to do with projection and displacement of anger.  Rhys says it doesn't really have to do with Paige (no mention of religion, by the way) but of all the things he's constantly to suppress.  

 

Makes sense, but doesn't really answer how he feels about religion.  

[sistermagpie]

Makes sense, but doesn't really answer how he feels about religion.

 

 

I always go back to the times he mentions it in Season one. He says, I believe regarding Viola, that he doesn't like dealing with people who believe in God because they make irrational decisions. And later when she calls him the devil and asks him if he doesn't believe in God or worry about hell (something like that) he just says, "No" the same way he would say "No" if a tourist demanded if he spoke their language which he didn't speak. 

 

Also I liked that in Martial Eagle when he went into the church there wasn't the familiar moment where he stops to look up at the crucifix at the altar or anything. He's not angry at God or Jesus.

[millennium]

It took a lot of chutzpah for Philip to keep telling Yousef about how wonderful Annaliese was, after he used her death for his personal advantage within about 30 seconds of it happening - and then mutilated her so that he could stuff her body in a suitcase.

 

I used to feel some sympathy for Philip.    No more.   They're monsters, the both of them.

[topanga]

 

I used to feel some sympathy for Philip.    No more.   They're monsters, the both of them.

I think Philip genuinely felt bad about her death, but he also saw her as collateral damage that had to be dealt with. At that point, he was all business.

 

It's like the maid in Season 1 whose son P&E injected with the "poison." They had nothing against the kid or his mom, but they would not hesitate to let the son die if the mother wouldn't put install the listening device.

[RedHawk]

It's like the maid in Season 1 whose son P&E injected with the "poison." They had nothing against the kid or his mom, but they would not hesitate to let the son die if the mother wouldn't put install the listening device.

 

 

That's when I saw them as monsters, totally using innocent people. Took me a while to get over that.

 

With Annaliese, Philip did seem to care about her and he knew he made a major mistake by not realizing she was in mortal danger until it was too late. At that point he may have felt her loss, but he had to push it aside, deal with the aftermath, and move on. From the look on his face,  damaging her body was grim and horrible for him because he did like her and feel he had failed her terribly. In the conversation he had with the man who killed her (forgot his name), I felt that both were telling the truth about how they felt about her, and both sincerely mourned her in those moments.

[Umbelina]

That's what spies do though.  Alan Furst has been called the "one who gets it right" by retired spies.  His books are WWII based.  I remember in one of his books (I binge read them) there is an American first running his assets, and he tries to keep them from getting killed, becomes distraught when many are.

 

An MI6 British spy kind of mocks him, thinking American's are soft and too new to the spy game to realize that you must not care about assets, since they are not only expendable, it's a dangerous game for which they are not equipped and many will die.  He basically implies it's a rookie mistake to ever actually care about your assets. 

 

It made an impression on me, as did many other things in his books. 

[ebk57]

I wasn't sure the point of that scene anyway.  Was there some meaning I missed, besides maybe just some light comedy as she had to name them all off, on her mentioning a bunch of beers to choose from before he chose? 

 

The entire point of the scene for me was seeing Tony Kornheiser's cameo after he'd campaigned hard for an invite to the set.  Totally paid off for me! :-)

[BW Manilowe]

https://twitter.com/joel_fields/status/580743198273867776

Showrunner Joel Fields posted this drawing (done, I guess, to see if the premise would work), of what's supposed to be the late Annaliese in the suitcase, to his Twitter. You might have to click a link in the actual Tweet to see it--I forget.

I know most people were grossed out by that scene, but I'm posting the drawing since I found it interesting (Full Disclosure: I only heard, but didn't actually see, the Annaliese suitcase scene. Thanks to medical issues that began this summer, I can no longer get comfortably/non-painfully into a position where I can actually *watch* my TV anymore; I can only hear it--but I did get the gist from hearing it, the bones cracking, etc.). I *am*, however, gonna err on the side of caution & label it potentially NSFW & potentially trigger-y/squicky, & potentially any other label you need to know you might get grossed out if you look at it.

[rubinia]

 

That was some kinda beer list, and they end up with Miller Lite.  Tastes Great! (Philip).  Less Filling! (Elizabeth).

I think they got Miller High Life. When you order "a Miller," that's what you get. (Wisconsinite here!) Also surprised they had Stevens Point beer on the menu...

[Ina123]

I'm binge-watching. Just catching up.

 

I cracked up when the girl changed the picture in the embassy from Breznev to Andropov. A few months later she'll be changing it again...and again...Russia sure had a string of bad luck with leadership.

[Chaos Theory]

On 2/25/2015 at 5:29 PM, RedHawk said:

 

That's when I saw them as monsters, totally using innocent people. Took me a while to get over that.

 

With Annaliese, Philip did seem to care about her and he knew he made a major mistake by not realizing she was in mortal danger until it was too late. At that point he may have felt her loss, but he had to push it aside, deal with the aftermath, and move on. From the look on his face,  damaging her body was grim and horrible for him because he did like her and feel he had failed her terribly. In the conversation he had with the man who killed her (forgot his name), I felt that both were telling the truth about how they felt about her, and both sincerely mourned her in those moments.

P&E aren't psychopaths.  Its not that they don't "feel" what they do.  Philip more then Elizabeth but they push past it to complete the mission.   Philip knows well what their jobs cost his soul and he is afraid of what it would do to Paige.  What it would turn her into.  Which is why he is so against recruiting her.  Elizabeth wants Paige to understand her.  Ironically in this case Elizabeth wants what any mother wants; to understand her daughter and to be understood by her daughter.  She just doesn't realize what doing that would cost Paige.  

Paige asking questions is a weird combination and I noticed it the first time I watched but didn't know what to make of it.  Was she just growing up or was this her continuation of trying to figure out her parents.  

Candy bars the best thing ever.

So Pepsi or Coke University?  

[Roseanna]

On ‎5‎.‎2‎.‎2015 at 8:34 AM, PinkRibbons said:

This was such a good episode but I got caught up the stupidest thing early on; Nina having toilet paper in her prison. Now, there was in fact toilet paper in the USSR, which sounds like it was about two grades above sandpaper at best, but it wasn't always available. Mostly people used the daily newspaper. They made little embroidered holders for squares (kissing swans being most popular) of the newspaper, and the reason I know so much about it is the absurd fact that my Grandmother was so anti-Soviet that she wouldn't have the newspaper in her house, so they had a worse time getting toilet paper than anyone else. But here I'm just gonna assume that in prison they don't think it's a good idea for people to wipe their asses with the faces of the country's leaders.

This scene made me laugh. When I visited Leningrad the first time in 1966, there was an old women in the public toalets who gave everyone beforehand two ("!) little pieces of paper and very rough they were. (No wonder everyone had a job in the Soviet Union!)

However, tourist were so rare at that time that we got caviar in Viipuri en route to Leningrad.