Small Talk: About Big People

[Madding crowd]

Yes, we are agreeing on this part. There is a general attitude that thin people are just working so much harder and in some cases it true. In most cases though, they are not working at it at all. When I was thin I stayed physically active but never worked hard at managing my food, I just ate normally. As an overweight person it is hard to determine what normal is. I realize Whitney is abrasive in some ways but I continue to like that she tries to move her body, many people don't. 

One of the most frustrating things is the constant insistent (talking about in general since this is small talk) that all fat people are exactly the same and if we are not losing tons of weight it is because we are not trying. Things like menopause, medications which make you gain or retain weight, physical problems which limit exercise, emotional issues, poverty, all of these things vary for fat people. For me, once I hit 50, my metabolism slowed way down. I have yet to find the perfect formula for weight lose. Part of the reason I hate fat shaming so much is that you do not know what a person's issues, motivations, how much they work out etc are. Over the past two years I lost 60 pounds by working out as much as I can and trying hard on my diet. Yet a relative I barely know made a smart ass comment to me that I probably sit in a chair all day and eat sweets. Considering I work out 4-5 days a week with a torn meniscus, spinal stenosis, four bulging discs and recent rotator cuff surgery (yes, I'm a mess), things like that make me want to quit.

Whitney is operating from a huge place of denial but also trying to protect herself. If you don't try you can't fail. Of course this isn't the way to go but we all do it sometimes. I just can't muster up hate for someone who is such a state. 

[Ketzel]

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Whitney might not feel it's appropriate to speak about the effects of PCOS on her fertility because she's not actively trying to get pregnant at this time so that's not a primary concern for her. She may not even want children down the line and thus it's not "fair" to talk about how PCOS effects someone trying to conceive. Not that's she is discounting the struggles other women have but that's not her story to tell if that makes sense. 

Well, there was that episode in Season 2 where she announced to her mother that, now that she had a boyfriend, she'd better get her fertility tested, a conversation that sent Babs into a tizzy for all kinds of reasons (none of which seemed to be delight at the prospect of Whitney producing a grandchild.) The subsequent visit to the fertility specialist was, as all the interactions Whitney has with medical professionals seem to be, shown briefly and choppily edited. What the doctor seemed to be telling her was that she had eggs, so she was fertile, which a number of people with PCOS commented at the time was not the actual standard for determining if a woman with PCOS could conceive.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Ketzel

[Scarlett45]

2 minutes ago, Ketzel said:

Well, there was that episode in Season 2 where she announced to her mother that, now that she had a boyfriend, she'd better get her fertility tested, a conversation that sent Babs into a tizzy for all kinds of reasons (none of which seemed to be delight at the prospect of Whitney producing a grandchild.) The subsequent visit to the fertility specialist was, as all the interactions Whitney has with medical professionals seem to be, shown briefly and choppily edited. What the doctor seemed to be telling her was that she had eggs, so she was fertile, which a number of people with PCOS commented at the time was not the actual standard for determining if a woman with PCOS could conceive.

I just started watching this season so thank you. That exchange seems producer driven to me.

[Snarklepuss]

3 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Yes, we are agreeing on this part. There is a general attitude that thin people are just working so much harder and in some cases it true. In most cases though, they are not working at it at all. When I was thin I stayed physically active but never worked hard at managing my food, I just ate normally. As an overweight person it is hard to determine what normal is. I realize Whitney is abrasive in some ways but I continue to like that she tries to move her body, many people don't. 

One of the most frustrating things is the constant insistent (talking about in general since this is small talk) that all fat people are exactly the same and if we are not losing tons of weight it is because we are not trying. Things like menopause, medications which make you gain or retain weight, physical problems which limit exercise, emotional issues, poverty, all of these things vary for fat people. For me, once I hit 50, my metabolism slowed way down. I have yet to find the perfect formula for weight lose. Part of the reason I hate fat shaming so much is that you do not know what a person's issues, motivations, how much they work out etc are. Over the past two years I lost 60 pounds by working out as much as I can and trying hard on my diet. Yet a relative I barely know made a smart ass comment to me that I probably sit in a chair all day and eat sweets. Considering I work out 4-5 days a week with a torn meniscus, spinal stenosis, four bulging discs and recent rotator cuff surgery (yes, I'm a mess), things like that make me want to quit.

Whitney is operating from a huge place of denial but also trying to protect herself. If you don't try you can't fail. Of course this isn't the way to go but we all do it sometimes. I just can't muster up hate for someone who is such a state. 

Thanks, I could have written this myself about myself.  I think that's where Whitney's attitude of how unfair it all is comes from - That people don't take into account all a person IS doing and assume that because someone is heavy they're not doing anything.  Well, she doesn't do that case much justice by eating enough pizza to have 3 pizza apps and all that.  But yes, I agree, at least she tries to stay active whereas a lot of people her size do not.

I find it amazing how some people in my own life don't get how a zillion things impact a person's weight OTHER than food, and in many cases over which they have little control or affect on.  When people make ignorant comments like that I don't just let them go by but tell them what I'm doing.  I sometimes tell people not to assume that all older overweight women have somehow become lazy and "given up" because that's often not the case at all.  Now that I track everything that goes into my mouth plus have a pedometer that uploads to a website, I am going to invite them to look at both to make up their minds about how much I am doing.  That's one reason why this online program I'm doing through my company's wellness program has been helpful to me psychologically, because I am seeing how much all of us in the group are doing and how some people (mostly older and female like myself) are struggling just to lose a few pounds.  So I know it's not just me.  Meanwhile the mens' weight loss is zooming off the charts.  The coach has been very sympathetic, although she really hasn't been much help in general to be honest.

Congratulations on your weight loss, I know that is a huge accomplishment!  I have lost 5 lbs. since mid June.  The scale doesn't reflect the effort that went into that, though.  I have worked my butt off just for that, let me tell you.  It's one reason I'm not posting as much here these days.  I have to keep reminding myself that being more active will improve my health all by itself and not to pay so much attention to the number on the scale.  But yeah, I deal every day with the "unfairness" of it all.  And I dread the inevitable special occasions (my birthday and another special occasion are coming up) because I don't want a couple of meals to wipe out 8 weeks worth of effort, which with my metabolic situation is very possible.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Snarklepuss]

2 hours ago, Ketzel said:

Well, there was that episode in Season 2 where she announced to her mother that, now that she had a boyfriend, she'd better get her fertility tested, a conversation that sent Babs into a tizzy for all kinds of reasons (none of which seemed to be delight at the prospect of Whitney producing a grandchild.) The subsequent visit to the fertility specialist was, as all the interactions Whitney has with medical professionals seem to be, shown briefly and choppily edited. What the doctor seemed to be telling her was that she had eggs, so she was fertile, which a number of people with PCOS commented at the time was not the actual standard for determining if a woman with PCOS could conceive.

IIRC, I seem to recall that Whitney reacted to the news that she "had eggs" as some kind of blanket reassurance that she could still have kids, and never gave it another thought.  Meanwhile several people here on the board have pointed out that her having eggs is still no reason to think she would not still have difficulty, as you pointed out.  I also seem to remember her making comments on later shows about being open to having children - I think at one time she was acting hopeful of that happening perhaps with Lenny.   I think she is under some false impressions and harboring false hopes, though.  And if she has in fact broken up with Lenny, at 32, she would have to be working really hard to find a replacement given that the clock is ticking.  I just can't imagine that at her weight and with her conditions a pregnancy would be all that healthy even if she could conceive, though.

[Snarklepuss]

4 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Since food is essential to live though, people can't just leave it out of their lives. People addicted to alcohol or drugs can stay away from places where these things will be, you can't do that with food. Even if you are good with food you will find yourself at weddings, parties of all kinds, vacations, work situations like lunches or in office events etc. It is hard to lose and keep weight off. I also don't believe thin people are constantly managing or analyzing every bite they eat. A few maybe, but most no. I was very thin my whole life until around age 45 when I developed hypothyroidism, spinal stenosis and other health problems that caused the weight to pile on. I was always active but I never did things like count calories or really manage anything before. 

They say that portion sizes are distorted in our culture and I am sure they are even with thin people.  I am constantly amazed at how some thin people's idea of a portion is typically much larger than mine is, probably because they have never had to be concerned about the sizes of their portions in order to stay thin.  So using their already distorted idea of what a portion is many assume that all overweight people are eating tons more food than most of them actually are.  These people can also assume that they are eating very healthy, otherwise they would be fat.  They assume that all fat people are eating unhealthy - I can attest to that not being the case in my own life.  You can get fat eating "normal" portions of healthy food.

I have also read that everyone is addicted to food to some degree - we all have to be, otherwise we wouldn't want to do it every day at least 3 times!  So the problem is even worse for overweight people.  You have to eat to live and you never completely recover from the addiction, because if you did you'd starve and die.  How you pare yourself down and live on much less for any extended amount of time is a balancing act that if most naturally thin people had to face it, they would surely lose the battle, in many cases even worse than an overweight person who is doing everything in their power to win it.   Some naturally thin people make unfair and untrue assumptions about overweight people.  I know, I used to be one of those people myself when I was thin and didn't have to be so concerned with my weight or my portion sizes.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Madding crowd]

That was a well thought out post Snarklepuss and I agree with every word. Congrats to you for participating in your company's wellness program and for making such an effort with your health. You hit on the reason I am so adamant about not fat shaming people; you don't know the whole story, it's none of your business and most people try and fail many, many times in their lives. I don't think fat people owe anything to thin people, if you don't like the way I look, go away. Of course I encourage everyone to work hard to be as healthy as possible but it is also ok to still live a life. To me it is Ok for Whitney to dance, to have friends, to do whatever she wants to do.

 

Another funny and exasperating thing: I kept a food log for two weeks and gave it to my doctor. During those two weeks I lost 1 pound. She looked at it and said if you really ate only this, you would have lost 10 pounds. All obese people lose a lot of weight if they try. This from a doctor! This same doctor told me I shouldn't work out until after I lose the weight because it won't help anything anyway. Ignorance!

Anyway my fat girl rant of the day is this: The same person will hear, "Why don't you make any effort to do more and lose weight?" and "Look how awful she looks exercising/dancing/biking etc" and the ever popular "Why bother? You won't keep it up."

[ClareWalks]

10 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I also don't believe thin people are constantly managing or analyzing every bite they eat.

Keep in mind, though, that many people who are thin and/or athletic are not naturally that way, and they got that way because they work at it. When I was thinner people told me regularly that I "don't need to eat a salad for lunch." But they didn't seem to see the cause and effect that I was thin because I chose salad and not a value meal. I have lost 50 lb recently by logging what I eat and focusing on high fiber. So saying thin people don't manage their diets is painting with a pretty broad brush.

[Madding crowd]

I didn't say all, I said many. This is based on myself when I was thin (my whole life up to age 45) and people I know. Obviously there are people of all sizes, both thin and fat who watch what they eat. I just don't believe the difference between all thin and all fat people is that fat people are lazy and don't work at it and thin people do. I think that kind of thinking is painting with a broad brush. 

[ClareWalks]

2 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I didn't say all, I said many. This is based on myself when I was thin (my whole life up to age 45) and people I know. Obviously there are people of all sizes, both thin and fat who watch what they eat. I just don't believe the difference between all thin and all fat people is that fat people are lazy and don't work at it and thin people do. I think that kind of thinking is painting with a broad brush. 

I dunno, your posts just seem to say "most thin people" a lot, and while that might be true of thin folks under 30 (metabolism is on their side after all), I must respectfully disagree that it is true of most people of normal weight. As a personal trainer, I see a lot of those "thin people" busting their butts at the gym and logging what they eat, and I would say the strong majority of lean people over 30 are putting in work for it. Your personal experience may vary.

[Madding crowd]

But you are only seeing people who are at a gym or working with a personal trainer. Not all people are doing that. I would agree with you that people who work out a lot and/or work with a personal trainer  tend to look at their eating more carefully. I know quite a few thin people who never go to a gym at all. Do you know any fat people who work out and watch what they eat? Those people exist too. 

[ClareWalks]

9 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Do you know any fat people who work out and watch what they eat? Those people exist too. 

Yes, I do. Of course. I never said they don't. Time for me to tiptoe away from this one. Good luck, folks!

[yogi2014L]

2 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

Keep in mind, though, that many people who are thin and/or athletic are not naturally that way, and they got that way because they work at it. When I was thinner people told me regularly that I "don't need to eat a salad for lunch." But they didn't seem to see the cause and effect that I was thin because I chose salad and not a value meal. I have lost 50 lb recently by logging what I eat and focusing on high fiber. So saying thin people don't manage their diets is painting with a pretty broad brush.

+1 million.  I workout a ton and if I didn't watch what I eat I would gain weight. All of my thin friends also have to work out and watch what they eat too. 

Most adults need to watch their diets to maintain a healthy weight. With all the added sugar in our food,huge portion sizes, and sedentary jobs its really hard to stay healthy if you aren't actively paying attention. I personally don't know anyone (over the age of 25 lol) who is thin who eats like crap all the time. It will catch up with you for the most part. I'm sure there are some metabolic weirdos out there who can eat Mcdonalds every day and stat thin but I don't think they are the majority. 

* This is not to say that overweight people aren't paying attention. Just stating that just because someone is thin it doesn't mean they aren't doing all the same things overweight people are doing to lose weight**

Edited August 16, 2016 by yogi2014L

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, yogi2014L said:

+1 million.  I workout a ton and while I would love to eat burgers and pizza every day I don't. All of my thin friends also have to work out and watch what they eat too. 

Most adults need to watch their diets to maintain a healthy weight. With all the added sugar in our food,huge portion sizes, and sedentary its really hard to stay healthy if you aren't actively paying attention. I personally don't know anyone (over the age of 25 lol) who is thin who eats like crap all the time. It will catch up with you for the most part. I'm sure there are some metabolic weirdos out there who can eat Mcdonalds every day and stat thin but I don't think they are the majority. 

Having not an ounce of athleticism myself, I admire those who are committed to fitness and active lifestyles. Cause I know my behind is going to eat the donut? .

I really don't think it's a "fat" vs "thin" type of thinking. In my opinion every human being has issues in their life they have to spend extra effort paying attention to. Unlike some fat people I don't think people who are thin have it "so easy" and never have to worry about anything. Perhaps because I grew up fat I never let it define me, because it just always was. So much of weight though (especially for women) is tied up in issues of worth, self esteem, desirability, economic power etc that have nothing to do with health or emotional wellness (for example having the mobility you want) and to me that's a huge problem. 

[ClareWalks]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Having not an ounce of athleticism myself, I admire those who are committed to fitness and active lifestyles. Cause I know my behind is going to eat the donut? .

I really don't think it's a "fat" vs "thin" type of thinking. In my opinion every human being has issues in their life they have to spend extra effort paying attention to. Unlike some fat people I don't think people who are thin have it "so easy" and never have to worry about anything. Perhaps because I grew up fat I never let it define me, because it just always was. So much of weight though (especially for women) is tied up in issues of worth, self esteem, desirability, economic power etc that have nothing to do with health or emotional wellness (for example having the mobility you want) and to me that's a huge problem. 

Totally agree, especially with your last sentence. It is such a shame that we are conditioned to find our value in our appearance alone. When I have trained teenage girls I have focused on true self esteem, on finding our intrinsic value and feeling powerful and strong rather than trying to look pretty and thin (which are external and other-subjective). In my case, I don't walk 14 miles each weekend to stay a size 8, I do it because I feel so good about myself when I'm pushing my body and working hard. I think people should find that thing that gives them that sense of power and self-worth, whether it's exercise or art or music or whatever. It's so important for women in particular, I could not agree more.

[Madding crowd]

I agree with too. I never ever said no thin people work hard, obviously many do. I do think that there are many thin people (especially those who are younger) who don't work hard and are just naturally doing the right things. My point was not to knock anyone thin; for most of my adult life I was 108 pounds at 5'6. I did work out but neither I nor my friends 'managed' my food closely, which was the original topic of the post I responded to. As we age, we do need to watch food closely. My posts were entirely about the notion that all thin people work very hard at it and fat people don't which is not universally true. I work very hard at exercise and diet, my sister in law who wears a size 4 never exercises or diets. Not in any way trying to disparage personal trainers or people who work out in a gym-just asking that you keep an open mind that the fat people you see in daily life may be doing these things also. 

[TotoGirl]

For the posters on this forum....can I just say that I think it would be fun to hang out & have a beer with all of you---(after going for a long, energetic walk, of course)!!! :-)

[Maggienolia]

On 8/14/2016 at 7:37 PM, Cinnamini11 said:

One thing I think will help make my responses to doubts about Whitney’s experiences/the validity of her emotional reactions/thought processes* clearer is that doing this to a marginalized group is something that bothers me a lot. As someone belonging to various groups that have their experiences dismissed or looked upon with suspicion, its important to me.

I think this is a big danger with Whitney too. So many people DO have that stereotype that obese people and particularly morbidly and super-morbidly obese people got that way because they eat too much, all the time, are lazy, don't exercise EVER, etc. etc. etc. and Whitney with her behaviour and attitude just reinforces all of the negative stereotypes about fat people and probably even fans the flames of fat-shaming for some people in the world instead of engendering compassion and understanding. 

[Maggienolia]

3 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I agree with too. I never ever said no thin people work hard, obviously many do. I do think that there are many thin people (especially those who are younger) who don't work hard and are just naturally doing the right things. My point was not to knock anyone thin; for most of my adult life I was 108 pounds at 5'6. I did work out but neither I nor my friends 'managed' my food closely, which was the original topic of the post I responded to. As we age, we do need to watch food closely. My posts were entirely about the notion that all thin people work very hard at it and fat people don't which is not universally true. I work very hard at exercise and diet, my sister in law who wears a size 4 never exercises or diets. Not in any way trying to disparage personal trainers or people who work out in a gym-just asking that you keep an open mind that the fat people you see in daily life may be doing these things also. 

One point Whitney makes that I DO agree with is that you see someone, a stranger. on the street and you notice that they are fat or thin or hugely morbidly obese or fit-looking and you make assumptions but you don't know that person so you don't know. You don't know if that thin person is struggling with an eating disorder and sees themselves as overweight or if they're a health-food freak who makes every effort to eat healthy foods and exercise to maintain their weight or if they're lazy with horrible eating habits but have been blessed with the kind of metabolism that let's them stay thin. You don't know if that fit-looking person just loves to workout and exercise and their physique is a consequence of doing something they love to do but they also smoke a pack a day and eat crap and have high cholesterol and health issues. You don't know if that fat person is working really hard to lose weight and trying to eat right and be active and have already lost a lot of weight or if they have a medical issue that makes it impossible to lose weight or lose more than a certain amount of weight or if they're fat but not HUGE and are healthy with good blood pressure, normal cholesterol, are active and try to eat well but don't obsess over it or are huge and just don't care about eating right or being active or trying to do what they can to be healthy... 

You just don't know. And that's what was hopeful about this show when it first came out. Here (supposedly) was a woman who was morbidly obese on a journey to address the challenges to losing weight because of PCOS and learning to eat right, be active, etc. And provide a more positive counter to all the "fat people are lazy" stereotypes/assumptions. Sadly, she has not done that. And more shows us that while fat-shaming is not acceptable, some fat people are just nasty, delusional people. And while the don't deserve to be made fun of based on their size, they can't expect people to be nice to them or feel for them just because of their size. Whitney would be the same whiney, delusional person at any weight, with any kind of hair, with any level of health, as she is today.

[Cinnamini11]

1 hour ago, Maggienolia said:

I think this is a big danger with Whitney too. So many people DO have that stereotype that obese people and particularly morbidly and super-morbidly obese people got that way because they eat too much, all the time, are lazy, don't exercise EVER, etc. etc. etc. and Whitney with her behaviour and attitude just reinforces all of the negative stereotypes about fat people and probably even fans the flames of fat-shaming for some people in the world instead of engendering compassion and understanding. 

Yeah I thought this was a good point and it crossed my mind, but for me it got too close to the idea that people have to act a certain way to be treated as an individual instead of a stereotype. Like how I unconsciously monitor how loud I’m being in public or if I’m displaying any hint of anger, because even though it’s a valid/normal reaction people will be like- oh there goes another loud, angry black woman. I think public figures are especially aware of things like this, but they still should be able to live their lives how they want regardless of the risk of perpetuating stereotypes.* Furthermore, I think the whole confirmation bias thing comes into play. Depending on what a person believes, they tend to view a public figure as the exception to the rule (if they don’t fit a stereotype) or confirmation (if they do fit the stereotype). So if Whitney did present as not lazy etc, those people would be like- see there’s how a fat person should behave. But of course most fat people aren’t like her...

*not saying the forums disagree, just stating a point. also I don't think it's wrong to police your own behavior due to stereotypes up to a certain point, but also not overestimate the difference it will have overall

[Cinnamini11]

Quote

@M.F. Luder

Honestly, she shouldn't care how her fans or anyone else reacts to anything she chooses to do. It's her life and she's the only one who has to live it. It's one thing to "love your body", but you should try to love your life too.

I'm probably a bitch for thinking this, but I'm over the whole idea of grown adults learning to love their bodies. I think the NoBS message is great to teach to kids to help teach compassion and the importance of character over beauty. People in their 30s should have enough life experience to have built up confidence in themselves through their accomplishments, relationships with family and friends, service to the community, etc to not worry so much about whether you or society values your body. All bodies go downhill and you've gotta have something else holding your self-esteem up.  

In the next season, I would like to see Whitney be more active in spreading her message with young children instead of focusing so much on how she feels about herself. One way to raise your self-esteem is to help others who are not as fortunate as you. No one feels good about themselves just because they're beautiful. Everyone, whether you're a super model or Quasimodo, has to build a character that others find value in in order to garner love and respect.

I’ve never believed in not caring what other people think. I think it’s a great sentiment, but unrealistic for most people. As humans/social creatures we’re hardwired to be aware and internalize how other people treat us, both the good and the bad. Not to say that there isn’t a healthy in between, between being a people pleaser and never letting other people’s opinions effect you. As for being an adult still struggling with body issues, they might've spent their entire childhood/adolescence hating their body so it isn’t until they're grown that they can try to start the process of shedding these deeply ingrained ideals.

I also think not liking one’s body goes so much further than just vanity. Some people look at their bodies and feel like it tells them they’re lazy or stupid or weak-willed no matter what their size. I feel like no body shame is important for adults as well because 1) these are the people that will have kids and raise them with the same messed up ideas about body image (and so the cycle continues) and 2) as long as other grown adults continue shame each other for their bodies, there needs to be people to remind them that that’s not okay. If people don’t speak out against something, it'll never change.

Truly I'm not sure one’s body image ever really stops being important. Not that you want feel like you’re going to look like you’re 18 again, but no matter how accomplished a person is at some points they can get tired of feeling ugly due to weight, skin, physical disability etc etc. For instance, I, like many people, don't fit into a lot of society's body ideals, but I like my body and I think that's at least one thing (with many others, health, accomplishments, personality etc) that helps me feel good about myself. 

I’m only vaguely remembering it, but I did really enjoy when Whitney did something with other people with all kinds of body issues. Her with the kids really highlighted how much body anxiety was happening from a startlingly young age. (Though I suspect there are people who will not want Whitney near their kids because they feel she is promoting obesity)

[winsomeone]

If Whitney is so in love with her morbidly obese body, why does she not seem to look for the same sized man to date? I would think that is the body type that would appeal to her..guess not?

[Ketzel]

9 minutes ago, winsomeone said:

If Whitney is so in love with her morbidly obese body, why does she not seem to look for the same sized man to date? I would think that is the body type that would appeal to her..guess not?

Whitney explained ( in her usual discreet and appropriate way) that she didn't date large men (this was at her first lunch with her "co-workers" at the radio station) because the physical logistics got too complicated. Roy looked a bit taken aback, but not at all disappointed.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Ketzel

[fountain]

It is interesting people's experiences in public as I have never really noticed any kind of shaming.  

I think Whit's message has really moved from no body shame to hate the average person.  The only people I know who are thin and don't have to work at it are the people with the natural boy-shaped bodies.  Everyone else, which is 90% of the people I know watch what they eat except maybe on holidays and they work out.  Most do this just to not gain or gain slower as we are all over 35 now.

[mamadrama]

2 hours ago, fountain said:

 The only people I know who are thin and don't have to work at it are the people with the natural boy-shaped bodies.  Everyone else, which is 90% of the people I know watch what they eat except maybe on holidays and they work out.  Most do this just to not gain or gain slower as we are all over 35 now.

Thank you, fountain. I agree. I only know one or two people who are naturally thin with high metabolisms. Every other thin person I know works at it. To imply other wise is, in my opinion, just as bad as saying that every fat person is fat because they overeat (when we know there are other reasons the person might be overweight). 

[Snarklepuss]

14 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I dunno, your posts just seem to say "most thin people" a lot, and while that might be true of thin folks under 30 (metabolism is on their side after all), I must respectfully disagree that it is true of most people of normal weight. As a personal trainer, I see a lot of those "thin people" busting their butts at the gym and logging what they eat, and I would say the strong majority of lean people over 30 are putting in work for it. Your personal experience may vary.

I respectfully disagree and think your last sentence is a myth that some people choose to believe in order to rationalize why fat people are fat - supposedly because they are not working at it.  Most of the naturally thin people I know are over 50 and have never really learned what good nutrition is much less a healthy portion size and have never set foot in a gym.  In fact, I don't personally know any thin women over the age of 50 who have ever set foot in a gym much less bust their butts in one.  So I respectfully disagree with your broad statement about the majority of lean people over 30 putting work in for it.   My experience has been otherwise.  In fact, I am the person who knows more about what is healthy/not healthy and have logged way more gym, walking and bike riding hours in my lifetime than any of the thin women I have ever known have.  Meanwhile, my friends who also have a weight problem have also done far more exercise in their lifetimes and know way more about dieting and nutrition than any of the thin women I know.   And they are women I've known for 20-40 years so I know their histories pretty well. 

I work with one woman who may be a size 000 she is so thin - She regularly takes home ginormous company cafeteria meals for her and her husband to eat for dinner.  She buys two of them, one for each.  This is after eating a similarly sized lunch.  I told her if I ate like that I'd weigh 300 lbs. in no time.  She is 4'11" and 64 years old, and while active for her age, she is less active than I am and has never set foot in a gym.  She told me "You know, I really believe it's all metabolism".  I do too.  I just can't believe how much this tiny little woman can pack away.  I call her the "cake queen" because she's the first one to grab up the leftover cake after office birthday parties, which occur almost every week!

My sister in law is another one.  She buys into all kinds of untrue "diet" myths and thinks that following them is the reason she is not overweight.  Meanwhile I know what she eats and she has distorted portion sizes and thinks she's eating small portions when I know otherwise.  Plus she has no clue what healthy food is.  She is the queen of processed crap.  She's another woman in her early 60s that has never set foot in a gym, ridden a bike, walked, ran nor done any regular exercise other than what she does just to go to and from the grocery store and her part time job.  Plus she has a very arrogant, judgmental attitude about people who are overweight.

I could go on and on, but I think I've made my point.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[formerlyfreedom]

Agree to disagree and move on. We all have different experiences.

[Barb23]

Whatever happened to the Average  person? Is there such a thing anymore?   Why does everyone have to be labeled Fat or Thin (no matter how they got there)?  

I have mainly what I would call Average sized relatives, friends, etc. Not thin, not fat, just in the middle, which I call Average sized.  It seems nowadays you have to be labeled Fat or Thin without a happy & hopefully healthy medium.

[ClareWalks]

9 minutes ago, Barb23 said:

Whatever happened to the Average  person? Is there such a thing anymore?   Why does everyone have to be labeled Fat or Thin (no matter how they got there)?  

I have mainly what I would call Average sized relatives, friends, etc. Not thin, not fat, just in the middle, which I call Average sized.  It seems nowadays you have to be labeled Fat or Thin without a happy & hopefully healthy medium.

Amen! That's why I put "thin" in quotes so often. It's not a word I am comfortable with.

[riverblue22]

I'm overweight, and built just like my German ancestors--my mother, my grandmother, my great-grandmother, and my great-great grandmother.  I know because I have photos of all of them and their stocky German husbands.  By the time they got to this country they had been through a lot of difficulties, but they managed to get through the really tough times with all those stored reserves.  Yes, I think the genetics are very strong for how we are built.  At my very thinnest I think you would say I was "stocky" or "solid." I can't even imagine thin as a possibility.

It would have been nice to get those nice thin genes of my Scottish grandmother, but even my dad missed out on those and took after his grandfather at 6'2' and 220.

[MrHufflepuff]

In another thread, CarolMK posted this:

Quote

Does anyone think that it is possible to be addicted to certain kinds of food? Not physically addicted of course, but mentally addicted. I've heard of kids that will only eat 3 or 4 different foods but they aren't starving themselves. Whitney could be "addicted" to pizza and pasta, in a sense. Yes, we all need food to live but we don't need unhealthy or junk food.  I'm thinking of the contestants who have been on the Biggest Loser- they are in a controlled environment with no access to junk food ( I think since I've only since it sporadically over the years). Of course those folks exercise for 4 to 6 hours a day too, which is why they have such good results. Maybe Whitney is trying to get well known enough to get onto a weight loss show as her next move? If she can set her mind to it, I can see that she has the potential to do very well. 

This is just my personal experience.  But, several years ago I gave up refined carbs and added sugars because adult-onset diabetes runs in the family.  I'd say I make about 90% of my food from scratch now (including dressing and condiments) to avoid added sugar.  My default diet is low-glycemic foods.  If I go off it occasionally, I'm not worried, but low-glycemic is my normal eating pattern.

And the first few weeks after I gave up all of added sugar and refined carbs, I feel like I went through a withdrawal that was as bad as nicotine withdrawal (when I quit smoking).  Although, once I did get through the withdrawal, I don't really have cravings and I find it fairly easy to stay on my diet (or eating pattern).

Edited August 17, 2016 by MrHufflepuff

[ChristmasJones]

The Global Healthy Weight Registry tracks people who have maintained a healthy weight over most of their lives. They send out questionnaires to those who qualify, and publish research - you can read it on their site.

Then there is the National Weight Control Registry which tracks people who have lost at least 30 lbs and kept it off for at least a year. They also have research articles you can read on their site.
 

[greekmom]

http://www.ravishly.com/2016/07/27/kerryn-feehan-concern-troll-fatphobe-and-bullshit-artist

This article just made me very angry.  The writer has no clue about food addiction.  I remember reading in another thread that food addiction is like "petting the lion".  That is right on the money.  You do not need booze to live. But you need food. The problem with society is that they do not understand that food addiction is a REAL addiction like alcoholism which results in body mass being accumulated. 

Kerryn was over the top. I presume because she is a comedian and she is trying to make a mark for herself.   That article above is disgusting and written by someone who is buying the Twitney BS (and I don't mean body shamming). 

[Cherrio]

Ketzel said Whitney has inspired her to want to up her level of fitness and health. I think we can all channel our toxic feelings for such a bad example , Her Royal Assholeness Whitney into something really positive.

 Mod, maybe we can have a separate area?

I think the posters here are a really great group of people. I have also read a lot of painful posts about struggles, winning battles and a lot of inspiration. There are also quite a few folks here that may be able to help anyone who wants some help in food choices and working out.

I would love to help anyone with my philosophy and the way I lost weight, kept it off and changed both physically and mentally with one little 20 minute workout.  I am not selling anything. :)

It is worth a try imo.

[TotoGirl]

I AM IN!!!! (Pretty please, Mods???)

[Barb23]

Me too!!

[Maggienolia]

5 hours ago, MrHufflepuff said:

In another thread, CarolMK posted this:

This is just my personal experience.  But, several years ago I gave up refined carbs and added sugars because adult-onset diabetes runs in the family.  I'd say I make about 90% of my food from scratch now (including dressing and condiments) to avoid added sugar.  My default diet is low-glycemic foods.  If I go off it occasionally, I'm not worried, but low-glycemic is my normal eating pattern.

And the first few weeks after I gave up all of added sugar and refined carbs, I feel like I went through a withdrawal that was as bad as nicotine withdrawal (when I quit smoking).  Although, once I did get through the withdrawal, I don't really have cravings and I find it fairly easy to stay on my diet (or eating pattern).

I'm pretty sure there are studies out there (solid, medical studies) that have shown that sugar (the refined kind - not so much the naturally occurring sugars in fruits if I recall) IS addictive (physically) and toxic. I've seen a few books that talk about carb addiction and how that addiction plays into a growing number of people with insulin-resistance and diabetes. I'm sorry I can't cite any specific sources off the top of my head. 

For my own experience, I've cut out adding sugar to anything 100% and keep high-sugar foods to a minimum (I should but haven't gone so far as to make my own dressing and condiments - kudos to those who do!) and I can say that not only do I not crave those foods (I don't know that I ever really had cravings though so...), I really don't miss them and the thought of having a really sugary beverage or food item isn't appealing. Well, except for creme brulee. I do have a weakness for a good creme brulee. Mmmm.... I miss creme brulee... :( 

[princelina]

13 minutes ago, TotoGirl said:

I AM IN!!!! (Pretty please, Mods???)

Me too :)

[aliya]

I'm for a new group - if people can talk about what they're doing without getting hammered by others who want to do it differently. Personally, I prefer not to eat meat,  but I'm not going to bash someone who does. I know some count carbs (I do because of insulin) or do Paleo, Keto, high carb/low fat. It's all good if it is working for you, as far as I'm concerned.  I happy to learn about what others have done and see if I can use it, but I can do without hearing there's only one way.

[Cherrio]

I will start posting tomorrow.   

I totally agree about listening to everyone, as my way may work for some, not for others.   

[OnceSane]

48 minutes ago, Cherrio said:

Ketzel said Whitney has inspired her to want to up her level of fitness and health. I think we can all channel our toxic feelings for such a bad example , Her Royal Assholeness Whitney into something really positive.

 Mod, maybe we can have a separate area?

I think the posters here are a really great group of people. I have also read a lot of painful posts about struggles, winning battles and a lot of inspiration. There are also quite a few folks here that may be able to help anyone who wants some help in food choices and working out.

I would love to help anyone with my philosophy and the way I lost weight, kept it off and changed both physically and mentally with one little 20 minute workout.  I am not selling anything. :)

It is worth a try imo.

I will create a thread (with some guidelines). :)  I may need help with the title, though.

[abbey]

Great idea about a new group.  While I have lost 92 lbs I still have about 60 to go and hearing about other folk's experiences with what works and doesn't work for them will prove helpful I am sure. Watched about 5 minutes of tonight's show, tuned in just in time to see Whitney walk out and see her minions offer their opinions, profane and otherwise.  Like others have said Whitney has inspired me to stick even more closely to my healthy eating, and I doubt I will watch any longer as she just really annoys me and makes me so angry.  Will still be reading here as the snark is most entertaining.

[TotoGirl]

Hey guys....please go show Mamadrama some love over on the Skinny:Part 2 thread.

Twit's minions have targeted her and gone after her personal information, which could affect her livelihood. (And the comment she left simply said that she hoped Kerryn was out with friends & not reading comments.)

She could use some love and support from all of us.

Edited August 18, 2016 by TotoGirl

[lovetheduns]

On August 16, 2016 at 2:22 AM, Snarklepuss said:

They say that portion sizes are distorted in our culture and I am sure they are even with thin people.  I am constantly amazed at how some thin people's idea of a portion is typically much larger than mine is, probably because they have never had to be concerned about the sizes of their portions in order to stay thin.  So using their already distorted idea of what a portion is many assume that all overweight people are eating tons more food than most of them actually are.  These people can also assume that they are eating very healthy, otherwise they would be fat.  They assume that all fat people are eating unhealthy - I can attest to that not being the case in my own life.  You can get fat eating "normal" portions of healthy food.

I have also read that everyone is addicted to food to some degree - we all have to be, otherwise we wouldn't want to do it every day at least 3 times!  So the problem is even worse for overweight people.  You have to eat to live and you never completely recover from the addiction, because if you did you'd starve and die.  How you pare yourself down and live on much less for any extended amount of time is a balancing act that if most naturally thin people had to face it, they would surely lose the battle, in many cases even worse than an overweight person who is doing everything in their power to win it.   Some naturally thin people make unfair and untrue assumptions about overweight people.  I know, I used to be one of those people myself when I was thin and didn't have to be so concerned with my weight or my portion sizes.

What I have noticed with my never obese friends is that yes at SOME times their portions are larger, but they don't eat like that all the time. Now that I have much better control over my portions and calories, I understand the "technique." I still eat fast food, I still eat desserts - I just don't eat them all the time. Same with bread or pasta, etc. SO sure, I may go to a dinner and really indulge and have some drinks, but it is not my typical and I actually eat less the days surrounding the "event."

 

I didn't get obese eating normal portions and at my heaviest I was 285lb on a 5'3" frame. When I was at 285 I was eating anything and everything and in whatever quantity. Now, I was NOT honest with myself or others about what I was really eating, but it is a night and day difference from what I do today. Back at my heaviest, the cheap little cheeseburger and a small french fry from McDonalds would have seemed way too little food - when in reality now, I find it ample. Same with say a "cup" of soup - I would eat what I thought was normal servings but in reality I was eating probably 1.5 cups at a time plus a bunch of other stuff (and lets not forgot ALL of the extra crap I would put on everything - butter, olive oil, mayo on sandwiches, cheese, etc).

[Snarklepuss]

7 hours ago, MrHufflepuff said:

In another thread, CarolMK posted this:

This is just my personal experience.  But, several years ago I gave up refined carbs and added sugars because adult-onset diabetes runs in the family.  I'd say I make about 90% of my food from scratch now (including dressing and condiments) to avoid added sugar.  My default diet is low-glycemic foods.  If I go off it occasionally, I'm not worried, but low-glycemic is my normal eating pattern.

And the first few weeks after I gave up all of added sugar and refined carbs, I feel like I went through a withdrawal that was as bad as nicotine withdrawal (when I quit smoking).  Although, once I did get through the withdrawal, I don't really have cravings and I find it fairly easy to stay on my diet (or eating pattern).

I went off all added refined sugar 2 years ago and limit my consumption of natural sugars too.  I went through the withdrawal too but not as bad because I pared down using artificial sweeteners for a while, which I then pared down to nothing.  It was my version of the cigarette patch, LOL.   I also don't have anymore sugar cravings since then.  Plus any time I do taste something with refined sugar in it it tastes WAY too sweet.  I have become hyper-aware of just how much sugar is in everything.  My husband recently bought some store made coleslaw.  17 grams of sugar in a half cup serving???  I couldn't eat it.  He apologized but like a lot of people he isn't aware of how many foods have "sneaky" sugar in them.  In the past 25 years I have noticed that restaurants and prepared supermarket items have gone way up in their added sugars.  Like take for example Chinese food.  When I was a kid, Chinese food was mostly savory.  Now it's so sweet it's like candy.  The few times I have Chinese food I ask for it with no added sugar because it's loaded with it.  I think people have been systematically turned into sugar addicts and so need more and more of it to taste it.  I think if most people were aware of how much sugar is in everything they'd be horrified.

[Snarklepuss]

20 minutes ago, lovetheduns said:

What I have noticed with my never obese friends is that yes at SOME times their portions are larger, but they don't eat like that all the time. Now that I have much better control over my portions and calories, I understand the "technique." I still eat fast food, I still eat desserts - I just don't eat them all the time. Same with bread or pasta, etc. SO sure, I may go to a dinner and really indulge and have some drinks, but it is not my typical and I actually eat less the days surrounding the "event."

I didn't get obese eating normal portions and at my heaviest I was 285lb on a 5'3" frame. When I was at 285 I was eating anything and everything and in whatever quantity. Now, I was NOT honest with myself or others about what I was really eating, but it is a night and day difference from what I do today. Back at my heaviest, the cheap little cheeseburger and a small french fry from McDonalds would have seemed way too little food - when in reality now, I find it ample. Same with say a "cup" of soup - I would eat what I thought was normal servings but in reality I was eating probably 1.5 cups at a time plus a bunch of other stuff (and lets not forgot ALL of the extra crap I would put on everything - butter, olive oil, mayo on sandwiches, cheese, etc).

That's interesting.  I didn't gain weight eating anything I wanted.  But then again my weight gain was the age/post menopausal kind.  I gained weight eating what is usually considered diet food in what I would consider normal sized portions.  I gave up fast food 25 years ago save for the occasional emergency Egg McMuffin or KFC grilled chicken.   A couple of years ago I decided I just had to have a Whopper once in a blue moon (aka once every 3 months or so) because life is too short.  Until two years ago when I gave up added sugar I only ate cake and sugary desserts every now and then and when I did I had a very small portion.  Same for French fries - once in a blue moon or I would make my own baked oven fries.  I am the one always asking if I can substitute a side salad.  I was never a total carb. addict either.   I just think that as I age my metabolism continues to go down so now I have to eat very small portions of mostly whole fresh foods or I will gain weight.  And that's just to maintain!  To lose I have to exercise and restrict myself even MORE!!

[Barb23]

6 hours ago, lovetheduns said:

What I have noticed with my never obese friends is that yes at SOME times their portions are larger, but they don't eat like that all the time. Now that I have much better control over my portions and calories, I understand the "technique." I still eat fast food, I still eat desserts - I just don't eat them all the time. Same with bread or pasta, etc. SO sure, I may go to a dinner and really indulge and have some drinks, but it is not my typical and I actually eat less the days surrounding the "event."

 

 

I could have written this.  I have also learned the hard way that my eating large portions does a number on my stomach.  Too bad Twit hasn't experienced this, it is a great incentive not to over do it. I can't imagine eating one huge carb laden meal at the end of the day like she claims she does  & then going to bed.  It must feel like concrete in her stomach. Recently I went out to dinner with my sister & friends.  It was funny that the two larger of us took half our meals home to be eaten the next day. 

I can't wait to start reading everyone's diet/food/ exercise recommendations.  Like others have posted, maybe something good will come out of watching the articulate train wreck called Whitney Thor. 

[LocalGovt]

8 hours ago, greekmom said:

http://www.ravishly.com/2016/07/27/kerryn-feehan-concern-troll-fatphobe-and-bullshit-artist

This article just made me very angry.  The writer has no clue about food addiction.  I remember reading in another thread that food addiction is like "petting the lion".  That is right on the money.  You do not need booze to live. But you need food. The problem with society is that they do not understand that food addiction is a REAL addiction like alcoholism which results in body mass being accumulated. 

Kerryn was over the top. I presume because she is a comedian and she is trying to make a mark for herself.   That article above is disgusting and written by someone who is buying the Twitney BS (and I don't mean body shamming). 

I couldn't even read it all the way through.

But I agree, and said the same thing as you in a different thread, that you need food to live, but you don't need alcohol or cigarettes.  Comparing the two is like apples and oranges, in terms of dealing with the addiction.  You can say, "Well, I have an addiction that I deal with too," (as Kerryn did) and that's true to a point, but the similarity stops there. However, to the best of my knowledge, Whitney has never said she had a food addiction.  I could be wrong, but I don't recall her ever saying that.

[Cinnamini11]

Quote

@M.F. Luder

Why? People say the same thing about pregnant women. It's a way of walking that's clearly different than the average human gait. It's an objective word that doesn't inherently mean something negative. Kind of like how Whitney thinks of the word "fat". With that being said, I don't think I would personally describe the way Whitney walks as waddling, but she clearly walks in a way that indicates she has to compensate for her size. Her body is not in the correct alignment and that will almost certainly cause her joint issues when she's older.

The word itself is objective, but when one adds context the meaning changes. For instance talking about a penguin waddling vs fat person. The word, when in reference to fat people, has derogatory undertones, but with a penguin it’s just cute. For fat people “waddle” or not, it’s still “walking” and can be easily addressed as such. I think if someone referred to another human being that way (oh look at her waddle over) I would be very obviously demeaning. At the very least it’s certainly not meant to be nice. Also the fact that “Whitney doesn’t really waddle” is part of the point. It doesn’t matter if someone looks like a penguin walking or not—they’re a “fattie” and therefore they waddle.

[Cinnamini11]

Quote

@TotoGirl

Todd calling Kerryn a c*nt is NOT acceptable in ANY circumstance. In this situation Kerryn could have responded (justifiably so) by calling Todd a 'fa**ot' but she maintained her dignity and didn't do that. 

Nah. There is never a situation where it is justifiable to use a homophobic slur. No matter what the context is it all goes back to the same meaning- using being gay (or gayness in general) as an insult. It’s always going to imply homophobia.

(Personally if we’re talking slurs I don’t take c*nt as seriously as f****t. I know it’s misogynistic and don’t get me wrong I’d still be mad as hell, but not nearly as incensed as with a homophobic or racial slur thrown my (or anyone else’s) way. )