Spoilers With Speculation

[Terese]

They had said that Amara was caged using the combined forces of God and the Archangels. That was Light vs Dark. I can't see 2 Archangles defeating God. It has a nice literary symmetry, though. But, the power differential feels huge.

And God(and Amara) is the Universe. He is not just the ruler.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Terese

[PeterKahlke]

9 minutes ago, Terese said:

They had said that Amara was caged using the combined forces of God and the Archangels. That was Light vs Dark. I can't see 2 Archangles defeating God. It has a nice literary symmetry, though. But, the power differential feels huge.

And God(and Amara) is the Universe. He is not just the ruler.

My guess is that God will be weakened from the battle with Jack, which will even out the power levels.

[Terese]

4 minutes ago, PeterKahlke said:

My guess is that God will be weakened from the battle with Jack, which will even out the power levels.

Perhaps, though Amara restrengthed quickly at the realization of being caged. Add the constant fluctuations in power and it's possible. I do think God is part of the universe as much as the universe is part of him. I see no logical way around that. Destroying Chuck destroys everything.

[ahrtee]

 

Moved to Supernatural Ending thread.

Edited September 2, 2020 by ahrtee

[Aeryn13]

I saw what appears to be a pic from set with Pellegrino in it. Urgh.

Can't say if it was from 19 but it wouls be weird to have Chuck and Michael, wrap that entire thing up and not have Lucy. Until the freaking Series Finale is all about that overdone tired joke of a character.

[gonzosgirrl]

Here is the photo. Pretty girl, pretty boys. But UGH.

 

[Casseiopeia]

47 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I saw what appears to be a pic from set with Pellegrino in it. Urgh.

Can't say if it was from 19 but it wouls be weird to have Chuck and Michael, wrap that entire thing up and not have Lucy. Until the freaking Series Finale is all about that overdone tired joke of a character.

It looks like it was posted 2 hours ago so I'd say either E19 or E20

 

[Jonesy]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Here is the photo. Pretty girl, pretty boys. But UGH.

 

Well we knew Mark was in near the end already...on this board i'm the minority regarding Lucy--glad to see him one more time.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, Jakes said:

Well we knew Mark was in near the end already...on this board i'm the minority regarding Lucy--glad to see him one more time.

Lucky you.

[Jonesy]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

Lucky you.

lol.

[Aeryn13]

I mean, the Finale will most likely suck with or without the 7th million tired rendition of Lucy. With him, it will just suck more.

[PAForrest]

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I mean, the Finale will most likely suck with or without the 7th million tired rendition of Lucy. With him, it will just suck more.

Yeah, the suck factor just went off the charts. Tell me again, why did the Js even need to bother returning to Canada? No, it's not surprising Eugenie wouldn't leave this cockroach dead, but disappointing all the same.

Maybe all these poser characters get finished off in 15:19, leaving 15:20 to be mostly the brothers. That would only be fair. Jensen did say 15:19 was like a season finale, and 15:20 a series finale. A season finale would indicate the main story is finished, which would be the Chuckles-Princess Jackie Poo Sue slog fest. Mikey and Luci should be part of that, so again, here's hoping they're all done before the last episode.

Edited September 4, 2020 by PAForrest

[Myrelle]

11 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

Yeah, the suck factor just went off the charts. Tell me again, why did the Js even need to bother returning to Canada? No, it's not surprising Eugenie wouldn't leave this cockroach dead, but disappointing all the same.

Maybe all these poser characters get finished off in 15:19, leaving 15:20 to be mostly the brothers. That would only be fair. Jensen did say 15:19 was like a season finale, and 15:20 a series finale. A season finale would indicate the main story is finished, which would be the Chuckles-Princess Jackie Poo Sue slog fest. Mikey and Luci should be part of that, so again, here's hoping they're all done before the last episode.

🤞🙏

[Aeryn13]

I know imdb is not exactly reliable (though for some reason they knew about Michael!Dean at the start of Season 14, that was freakish). 

Anyway, 15.19 doesn`t list Pellegrino but does list an actress playing a "newscaster" who could or could not be the woman in that pic. If so, chances might be slightly higher Lucy is in 19 and the pic is a few days old. Also Jake Abel, I think, posted some gifs about choosing Michael or Lucifer during the shooting. So fingers crossed. 

Bad enough to hope for the barest of scraps. 

Now 15.20 lists an actor playing the role of "vampire". So is it gonna be a random hunt as the Finale and then lollipop world? Or do they retire and "carry on" literally means other hunters carrying on? Which would be ridiculous because this is not Buffy, they were never the only hunters ever.    

[S Cook Productions]

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I know imdb is not exactly reliable (though for some reason they knew about Michael!Dean at the start of Season 14, that was freakish). 

Anyway, 15.19 doesn`t list Pellegrino but does list an actress playing a "newscaster" who could or could not be the woman in that pic. If so, chances might be slightly higher Lucy is in 19 and the pic is a few days old. Also Jake Abel, I think, posted some gifs about choosing Michael or Lucifer during the shooting. So fingers crossed. 

Bad enough to hope for the barest of scraps. 

Now 15.20 lists an actor playing the role of "vampire". So is it gonna be a random hunt as the Finale and then lollipop world? Or do they retire and "carry on" literally means other hunters carrying on? Which would be ridiculous because this is not Buffy, they were never the only hunters ever.    

Well Mark Pelligrino posted on igram last night that he was home after being gone for 4 weeks. They still have 3 days left to shoot of the finale, so I suspect he was in 19. I guess it’s possible he’s in some of 20. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[Aeryn13]

47 minutes ago, S Cook Productions said:

Well Mark Pelligrino posted on igram last night that he was home after being gone for 4 weeks. They still have 3 days left to shoot of the finale, so I suspect he was in 19. I guess it’s possible he’s in some of 20. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Sigh, it would be bad enough to have him in 19 but there is truly no need to stick around. What will be the point, so Sam can kill him this time?

[ILoveReading]

52 minutes ago, S Cook Productions said:

Well Mark Pelligrino posted on igram last night that he was home after being gone for 4 weeks. They still have 3 days left to shoot of the finale, so I suspect he was in 19. I guess it’s possible he’s in some of 20. 🤷🏼‍♀️

One of my theories is that ep 20 is this is your life Sam Winchester and Dean is trying to help him let go and move on and Sam gets to confront all this past traumas and regrets.   There being a big fight scene right in the middle of ep 20 that took two days to film fits right in with that.

Edited September 5, 2020 by ILoveReading

[SueB]

Well, there the hard proof Luci is there. 
 

and Scene 28 took THREE days to shoot.  Which I suspect is somewhat driven by Covid restrictions. I hope it works well.  
 

Cliff had his last day going to the studio on Friday and it looks like both Baby and The bunker have wrapped.  Which makes 2 days filming.... where?   And without BABY.  
 

if they stick with the last scene being a J2 only day, then it won’t be next to the car. 
 

I hope Jensen gets to drive Baby back and does so right away with Jared.  Although knowing this fandom, they may go in secret so as to avoid crowds lining the highways.  

[ILoveReading]

4 minutes ago, SueB said:

and Scene 28 took THREE days to shoot.  

Another complicated fight scene directed by Singer.  Who thought that was a good idea.

[ahrtee]

21 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Another complicated fight scene directed by Singer.  Who thought that was a good idea.

Well, it takes time to set up all those marionette wires and make sure they don't get tangled during the action.

[Res]

On 8/27/2020 at 9:29 PM, Casseiopeia said:

 JThe promo's always look so exciting. But yes a lot of emphasis on Dean protecting his family (Cas too).

They have pulled this so many times. I'm not falling for it. They almost always advertise a heavy Dean presence to get us there then shove Jack, Lucy and Cluck in our faces, like the joke pie we all knew was coming.

Instead of responding to a lot of the quotes I saw, I'm just going to say that I can see them throwing another bomb at canon and showing Dean to be less than trustworthy after having Sam say that he always could count on him. I can also see Sam's sacrifice coming a mile away, "maximum suckage incoming". 

I believe in ep 19 Jack will end up dying in his effort to kill Clucky but I also believe that Lucy might be helping him do it, only to betray him later. Cas will die having tried to help Jack. Cluck and Lucy survive but they are both powered down. So, for ep. 20, Sam and Dean have to face off against Cluck while he is still weak. Michael is convinced to help but at the last minute Amara shows up and helps out. While they don't kill Cluck, they do cage him, with Amara's help, however, Sam's back in a dying coma. Not expected to live or awaken.

Afterwards, Amara talks to Dean alone who is still reeling over all the loss. She apologizes for her previous gift, telling him that family sucks. He gives a passionate speech as only Dean can about how family is everything. She offers him a gift, a second chance of having a live Sam. He accepts immediately, no questions asked, as always. 

Dean wakes up to his phone ringing. He's in Baby. He picks up the phone, looking around trying to figure out where he is. "Hello," he answers. 

"Dean"

"Dad?" Dean responded shocked and wondering why his voice seems a little high pitched than normal then he sees Sam walking his way down the other side of the street and it hits him. He's at Stanford and he's younger. "Dad, what year is it?"

"You, too, huh? Don't move. I'm headed your way. We are going to save her. We have work to do." As John shuts the lid on the tool box in the back of his truck.

 

Nevermind. That is actually kind of a good ending.

Instead, Dean wakes up tending bar with his friend. This time he doesn't care what's in the basement. Amara lets him see a picture in his mind's eye of Sam living happily with the deaf chick and lets him know he can never contact Sam or things would go bad again. Amara makes Billy the new God. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Res

[Aeryn13]

7 minutes ago, Res said:

They have pulled this so many times. I'm not falling for it. They almost always advertise a heavy Dean presence to get us there then shove Jack, Lucy and Cluck in our faces, like the joke pie we all knew was coming.

Instead of responding to a lot of the quotes I saw, I'm just going to say that I can see them throwing another bomb at canon and showing Dean to be less than trustworthy after having Sam say that he always could count on him. I can also see Sam's sacrifice coming a mile away, "maximum suckage incoming". 

I believe in ep 19 Jack will end up dying in his effort to kill Clucky but I also believe that Lucy might be helping him do it, only to betray him later. Cas will die having tried to help Jack. Cluck and Lucy survive but they are both powered down. So, for ep. 20, Sam and Dean have to face off against Cluck while he is still weak. Michael is convinced to help but at the last minute Amara shows up and helps out. While they don't kill Cluck, they do cage him, with Amara's help, however, Sam's back in a dying coma. Not expected to live or awaken.

I agree on the fake advertising. Like, fool me 10.000 times, eh.

However, neither Chuck nor Michael is in ep 20. Though Lucy might be. Urgh.

Amara appears to be nowhere in sight in either ep. I assume she comes back in episode 14 to give some exposition and possibly power up Sam. Why? No idea. Random nonsense. 

Back at Comic Con I had the impression Jared was talking about both brothers when he mentioned what he liked/didn`t like and why he loved the ending. But maybe he was just talking solely about Sam "being done". And he loved it so much because it was Sam-centric.  

 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Aeryn13

[Res]

3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

. Why? No idea. Random nonsense. 

Well, that greatly describes the last four seasons to a tee!

 

 

[Jonesy]

If there any hard proof on what kind of scene the 3 day scene 28 is?  Did someone leak it's a big fight scene?

[Aeryn13]

6 minutes ago, Jakes said:

If there any hard proof on what kind of scene the 3 day scene 28 is?  Did someone leak it's a big fight scene?

What other than a fight/stunt scene takes three days to shoot? If it was just a dialogue scene, that would mean characters sitting around and talking for just about 15 minutes in one episode straight. Not happening. 

[ILoveReading]

10 minutes ago, Jakes said:

If there any hard proof on what kind of scene the 3 day scene 28 is?  Did someone leak it's a big fight scene?

From Rob Hayter, the stunt coordinator. 

The last two days Jason's board had one scene on it for the next two days. 

They usually schedule one scene for the day if its a big involved fight scene.

[Jonesy]

Thanks guys.  Is it possible that it could be some complex heavy special effects scene instead that's not just a fight scene but with extra elements that includes stunts since it's 3 days instead of just one full day alone.  Just speculating

[Bobcatkitten]

Also, Baby was done shooting on stage but not location. I hope to see her one last time. 

[Casseiopeia]

2 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Also, Baby was done shooting on stage but not location. I hope to see her one last time. 

She better be with her boys in the end!

[Castiels Cat]

On 9/5/2020 at 1:33 PM, Aeryn13 said:

I agree on the fake advertising. Like, fool me 10.000 times, eh.

However, neither Chuck nor Michael is in ep 20. Though Lucy might be. Urgh.

Amara appears to be nowhere in sight in either ep. I assume she comes back in episode 14 to give some exposition and possibly power up Sam. Why? No idea. Random nonsense. 

Back at Comic Con I had the impression Jared was talking about both brothers when he mentioned what he liked/didn`t like and why he loved the ending. But maybe he was just talking solely about Sam "being done". And he loved it so much because it was Sam-centric.  

 

 

Maybe Sam gets powered up because he is still connected by the wound. It's still there on a mumbo jumbo level.

Sam dies because of her power.

Amara seems like she digs being human. 

[Castiels Cat]

On 9/5/2020 at 12:54 PM, ahrtee said:

Well, it takes time to set up all those marionette wires and make sure they don't get tangled during the action.

I am convinced there was a reason for that. They literally staged s 13 finale using Greek tragedy tropes to emphasize Dean's tragic fall. It also had Greek tragedy tropes in the writing.  The wireworks battle was part of that. 

But yes... it was awkward.

 

Can someone spoil me as to when the season starts and whether/when repeats are airing?

[Casseiopeia]

1 hour ago, Castiels Cat said:

I am convinced there was a reason for that. They literally staged s 13 finale using Greek tragedy tropes to emphasize Dean's tragic fall. It also had Greek tragedy tropes in the writing.  The wireworks battle was part of that. 

But yes... it was awkward.

 

Can someone spoil me as to when the season starts and whether/when repeats are airing?

New season starts Oct 8th.  The first half of S15 is currently airing on Sunday nights at 9.

[Casseiopeia]

 

[ILoveReading]

Plot twist. My crack theory

Everyone thinks Cas is going to die in episode 18, but he doesn't, Dean does. 

Cas and Sam try to convince him to let go, which which is why they bring out the you protected us speeches.  Dean watches Cas, Sam and Jack defeat God.  Realizes he he's not needed and can let go. 

Last ep Dean watches Sam and Cas live their best lives.  Cas ruling heaven with Jack, and Sam with Elieen and their kids John and Mary. 

Dean goes to heaven. 

And the screen fades to black when the last chord plays.  The end.  lol

Edited September 9, 2020 by ILoveReading

[ILoveReading]

This is where they are filming.  So the location certainly would fit with a lollipop, world without monsters. 

According to IMDB there is a vampire listed for the last ep.  Given Jensen worlds about 19 being the season finale and 20 being the series finale, I wonder Dean asks Jack to leave 1 monster alive so they can have one last hunt.  Then after Sam kills the vamp, they realize they're done and have nothing to do.  Cut to five years later, Dean runs a bar, and Sam is married to Eileen.

That would also fit with Jared saying he can put Sam to bed.

[ahrtee]

9 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

That would also fit with Jared saying he can put Sam to bed.

Literally.

Hey, if Sam sleeps with someone who was already dead/brought back, does that mean he can't kill her this time?  Is his curse finally broken?

 

[S Cook Productions]

No one has mentioned Lisa and Ben. Any possibility he goes back to them? In that same ep last season that he said he would retire, he also wanted to end with their toes in the sand at a beach. Any possibility we will get that?! 

[Aeryn13]

4 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Plot twist. My crack theory

Everyone thinks Cas is going to die in episode 18, but he doesn't, Dean does. 

Cas and Sam try to convince him to let go, which which is why they bring out the you protected us speeches.  Dean watches Cas, Sam and Jack defeat God.  Realizes he he's not needed and can let go. 

Last ep Dean watches Sam and Cas live their best lives.  Cas ruling heaven with Jack, and Sam with Elieen and their kids John and Mary. 

Dean goes to heaven. 

And the screen fades to black when the last chord plays.  The end.  lol

I don’t think they hid Misha being on set and he is truly not gonna be in eps 19 and 20, though.

[Icarus]

So it’s here. Last day of principal photography on Supernatural, my home for 15 years. Getting ready to go to work on it for the final time. Deep feelings. Very deep. I love these people. Okay. Let’s go kick it in the ass one last time.

 

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, Icarus said:

So it’s here. Last day of principal photography on Supernatural, my home for 15 years. Getting ready to go to work on it for the final time. Deep feelings. Very deep. I love these people. Okay. Let’s go kick it in the ass one last time.

 

I kinda hope it's Ghost!Bobby and not Not!Bobby since he's apparently in the final scene(s). Although that may mean someone is dead/in heaven. Or it could be a flashback/retrospective. Am I mistaken in saying Jim is the only OC (Season 1) cast member remaining, besides the Js?

[PAForrest]

21 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I kinda hope it's Ghost!Bobby and not Not!Bobby since he's apparently in the final scene(s). Although that may mean someone is dead/in heaven. Or it could be a flashback/retrospective. Am I mistaken in saying Jim is the only OC (Season 1) cast member remaining, besides the Js?

Yeah, could be a flashback, but if he's playing real!Bobby today, then it's likely a Heaven scene and someone is dead.

If you mean OC and was there from season one, yeah, I think he is, other than John and Mary.

[gonzosgirrl]

30 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

Yeah, could be a flashback, but if he's playing real!Bobby today, then it's likely a Heaven scene and someone is dead.

If you mean OC and was there from season one, yeah, I think he is, other than John and Mary.

Yeah, I meant OC and actually here at the end. I'm always of two minds about Bobby, but I am glad Jim got the distinction of being the only other one who was in all 15 seasons.

[Aeryn13]

Bobby is there? Not that much of a fan because it makes it seem like death-heaven. If it was just a flashback or montage, why would it have to be shot specifically on the final day?

And Bobby welcoming one/both to heaven would be so trite and cheesy.

The only question would be if both died or just one. And then who it would be. 

[ILoveReading]

They are filming in a wooded area, just a little ways past a cemetary.  Sounds perfect for final good byes and a funeral pyre.

 

[gonzosgirrl]

22 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Bobby is there? Not that much of a fan because it makes it seem like death-heaven. If it was just a flashback or montage, why would it have to be shot specifically on the final day?

And Bobby welcoming one/both to heaven would be so trite and cheesy.

The only question would be if both died or just one. And then who it would be. 

But given Jensen's (now repeated) comments about revisiting it down the road - I just can't see him saying this if one or both of them are dead. I mean I know death is meaningless on the show, but surely they wouldn't negate even the *series* finale? Surely...

[gonzosgirrl]

4 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

They are filming in a wooded area, just a little ways past a cemetary.  Sounds perfect for final good byes and a funeral pyre.

 

In the tweet they are replying to (which I had to look at on a browser since for some reason, I am blocked by this person who I've never heard of before now, lol), they say this is the cemetery where the S14 finale went down (Sam shot Chuck). Hmm.

[bethy]

I would love to see Bobby - real Bobby, our Bobby - again. 
 

Honestly, I haven’t been feeling much about the end of the show beyond kind of a weary resignation. But Jensen’s post with the set being dismantled and mentions of Bobby and final scenes in cemeteries is starting to make me so sad. I can’t believe it’s almost over. I hadn’t been thinking I’d cry at the end, but it’s starting to occur to me that I might be a sobbing mess.

I’m gonna miss these boys somethin’ fierce.

Edited September 10, 2020 by bethy

[Aeryn13]

33 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But given Jensen's (now repeated) comments about revisiting it down the road - I just can't see him saying this if one or both of them are dead. I mean I know death is meaningless on the show, but surely they wouldn't negate even the *series* finale? Surely...

Everyone has been saying how final-final the ending is so IMO any pick-up or revisit would by necessity completely negate it.

If we get lollipop world, I just figured both would survive and retire. Because where is the dramatic "need" to kill them. If we don’t get lollipop world, I could see death. I'm undecided if it would be both, though. We never really had both "dying" as any kind of Season ender for obvious reasons. So I could see them doing it as a Series Finale. 

Which, I wouldn't in avd of itself hate, depending on if BOTH of them get a shared legacy appreciation.

 

 

[PAForrest]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But given Jensen's (now repeated) comments about revisiting it down the road - I just can't see him saying this if one or both of them are dead. I mean I know death is meaningless on the show, but surely they wouldn't negate even the *series* finale? Surely...

Well, if Jensen still hated it, then I could see that as the ultimate motivator for a do-over. In fact, given his stipulation of it being a very short reboot, six episodes on a streaming network, that tells me he's put some thought into it for some reason.

We know he disliked Drabb's original ending when he first read it, and that he had to be convinced - and only by Kripke - that it was okay. Of course, at that point Kripke was probably just wanting Jensen to be available for The Boys. But now with the COVID changes on top of that, Jensen could be feeling like Showalter does that the finale is extremely disappointing for a 15 year series.

In other words, negating the finale may be exactly why he's considering it.

[Aeryn13]

2 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

Well, if Jensen still hated it, then I could see that as the ultimate motivator for a do-over. In fact, given his stipulation of it being a very short reboot, six episodes on a streaming network, that tells me he's put some thought into it for some reason.

We know he disliked Drabb's original ending when he first read it, and that he had to be convinced - and only by Kripke - that it was okay. Of course, at that point Kripke was probably just wanting Jensen to be available for The Boys. But now with the COVID changes on top of that, Jensen could be feeling like Showalter does that the finale is extremely disappointing for a 15 year series.

In other words, negating the finale may be exactly why he's considering it.

I don`t necessarily think the gist of the ending changed, i.e. if both die or one dies or both retire. That likely stayed the same. At least Jared never changed his tune about it.

What did probably change/had to be rewritten was anything approaching "epic" - and I use the term loosely. Maybe they had planned for a little guest star cameo montage that didn`t work out due to actors not being available for 2 weeks of quarantine for maybe one scene. And if there is a big stunt scene, maybe it had to be downgraded as well. 

What Showalter finds disappointing from a production standpoint, I could see Jensen who often has a director`s view, even when he isn`t directing, might share. It could be a whimper of an ending that way. 

Though honestly, that is something you can say about a lot of shows. And I doubt this one under the current management could do "epic" anyway.

What I`ve seen today from another show just lowered my bar considerably again. To the Mariana Trench. So if the ending is just lame, boring and trite but had a certain even-ness to it, I would probably find satisfaction in it.