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S04.E11: If-Then-Else


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I interpret the kiss as Shaw's saying (to herself) "I'm going to be the one to hold down the button, and I'm going to die (to save my friends), so "what the hell"".

Does it have (for Shaw) any deeper romantic meaning? Possibly, based on all the flirting/bantering?

At the very least, I think the kiss was Shaw going, "I'm gonna die and I've wanted to do this (and more) for awhile now, so what the hell." The line about dying for someone you love is where I get deeper romantic meaning from it.

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So it turns out Sarah Shahi is pregnant with twins and thus her exit from the show, I highly suspect she ain't coming back any time soon.

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2015/01/07/person-of-interest-shaw-dead-sarah-shahi-pregnant/

 

 

Ah, good to know.  Thanks for the link.  (Cute interview.  :-)

 

I'd like to think they keep Shaw alive, but team Machine doesn't know if she is or not, and she shows back up at some point, even if just for a little bit.  Or, as one of the commenters pointed out, she shows up in flashbacks at least.

 

But I still want her to be alive. -pout-

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It took me a second to realize what the super-slo-mo was about, then Harold "died", and I got it. Interesting plot device, but every scenario (including the real one) featured someone giving up their life, although I don't think the Machine anticipated the last one. Or maybe it did. The scenarios were interesting in that they were all considered by the Machine in a matter of seconds.

 

I liked that in the scenerio where Root dies, and the real one where Shaw sacrifices herself, both their reactions were to address their feelings for the other before committing their last act. I completely buy these two being into one another. They are both people who have spent most of their lives not having a conscience or caring that much for people, and now are experiencing feelings they don't know how to deal with.

 

I wonder if Root's unquestioning belief in the Machine will waver after this. Unless it lets her know right away that Shaw might still be alive. I wouldn't believe the writers are done with Shaw just yet.

 

And if they wanted me to think Shaw was a goner, they had me very convinced with the long drawn-out slow-mo, the music, the horrified look on Root's face, the door slowing closing as Shaw looks on...and then...silence. It was rather unsettling. Bravo, show.

 

Much more things to talk about, but more on them later...

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I don't think we've seen the last of Shaw, although I doubt Shahi will ever come back to the show full-time.


It seems to me that the Machine miscalculated that Fusco would kiss Root in real life.  He didn't, of course.  (Fusco's line "This isn't a simulation" was very witty...)

Edited by Jipijapa
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So it turns out Sarah Shahi is pregnant with twins and thus her exit from the show, I highly suspect she ain't coming back any time soon.

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2015/01/07/person-of-interest-shaw-dead-sarah-shahi-pregnant/

 

Selfishly, this is a shame. Shaw might not be dead but we won't see her so that feels like a death anyway. I noticed that Reese is the machine's Primary Asset and Fusco is a Secondary Asset, am I right to presume Shaw was also a Primary Asset? The show will be a little bit unbalanced without her that's for sure but it gives Root an impetus, it also means Fusco will come into the fold fully; both welcome developments.

 

I loved the flashbacks, any direct interaction between those two fascinates me. Also, I smiled when I recalled the first few meetings between them, with the room burning and Finch struggling with a fire extinguisher. Cut to a while later and they are sitting in a serene park, playing chess. I don't why I made that connection but I found it funny. And when the team was in danger, I sort of expected the machine to deliberately sacrifice someone in order to save Finch. But, as we've noted before, the Machine has fully absorbed Harold's morality lessons.

Still, the machine hasn't scored a single win over Samaritan this season and I'm beginning to hate that, Greer and Martine need to be taken down a notch. Speaking of Martine, she now knows that Fusco is part of Team Machine, meaning Reese cover is definitely going to be blown, I wonder how they'll address that.

Edited by Boundary
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I have a theory about Fusco:  although Samaritan may have ID'd him now, the fact is that Fusco is a member of the NYPD.  If Samaritan eliminates him, Samaritan will then have to deal with the entire NYPD - who would certainly investigate the death of a senior cop like Fusco.  And Samaritan may prefer to use the NYPD as a vital tool rather than, well, have to take out significant chunks of the NYPD as well.

 

The difference between Fusco and Reese here is that Fusco is well established in the NYPD; he has many friends there.  Reese (being a "cop from nowhere") has no friends in the NYPD.  He could be more plausibly taken out than Fusco could.  In some ways, Root, Finch and Reese are far more vulnerable to elimination than Fusco, because they were always "off the grid" anyway. No one would miss them.  Their deaths would not create complications.

 

Or, Fusco just may go underground, as a replacement for Shaw... but I don't think the writers will do that, or do it for long.  

 

Here's one thing I'd love to see:  Bear needs to get out of that damn subway station.  He should be employed - as Fusco's K9 partner.  At least for a while.  (I still want to see a Bear-centric episode...)

Edited by Jipijapa
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This ep needed Fusco's nicknames for Root - Nutter Bitter, Nutella and ??? (Can't remember the last right now). I needed a small dose of humor.

Damn.

Banana Nut Crunch, if no one beat me too it.

 

When Harold got shot, I was furious.  Then, I realized that the Degas was important.  Never saw Shah getting hit.  Wasn't shooting the dang override button an option?

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It seems to me that the Machine miscalculated that Fusco would kiss Root in real life. He didn't, of course. (Fusco's line "This isn't a simulation" was very witty...)

I thought he said "This IS a simulation," emphasis mine. Really, I just figured it was The Machine having some fun with the scenario because I don't think Fusco would ever dare to kiss Root. He thinks she's a wackadoodle.

Speaking of Martine, she now knows that Fusco is part of Team Machine, meaning Reese cover is definitely going to be blown, I wonder how they'll address that.

Does she? I don't think Martine ever saw Fusco outside of the simulations. But I'm not 100% sure, I'll have to watch again. AND I WILL. Which goes to show how much I loved this episode, I rarely rewatch things. I'm usually one and done.

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Well Samaritan "orders" where to shoot to the head or body mass, AKA shoot to kill, I don't think Shaw's making it...

 

And again, Martine has seen the faces of the rest of the team, why aren't they marked as targets just like Shaw?

 

 

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Martine has seen the faces of the rest of the team, why aren't they marked as targets just like Shaw?

Samaritan knows what they all look like, but unless they find out their alternate identities (like with Shaw) Samaritan can't connect the dots with their faces because of those tweaked servers. Samaritan and team know something was done to create this blind spot but they don't know how. Basically, Samaritan needs names.

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This ep needed Fusco's nicknames for Root - Nutter Bitter, Nutella and ??? (Can't remember the last right now). I needed a small dose of humor.

    Damn.

Banana Nut Crunch, if no one beat me too it.

 

 

 

My favorite is Coocoo for Cocoa Puffs. Shaw needs to come back just so Fusco say fire off another Lucy/Ethel.

 

I'm so worried how Bear will react to not having Shaw in the subway! Poor Bear!

 

I've been saying I don't want any of them to die during this war because I feel like it would be a rehash of Carter and the writers going off how well it worked killing off a mian character the first time, so why not try again. But I'll hold back given Shaw might not be dead, and now of course knowing Sarah is pregnant. That's great for her... but add me to the selfish list that I wish it was timed differently. I don't want Shaw to go, and ironically, I've spent a lot of time complaining this better not turn into the Shaw Show (and I really do need Reese and Harold tracking down a number, old-school style sooner rather than later), but I love the dynamics and don't want them to change especially in a Brings More Pain way of someone dying/being held hostage. A character like Shaw is so hard to keep inactive on screen, so I totally get writing her off for now since Sarah clearly can't film the stuff Shaw does (hell, if I were pregnant with twins, I'd be lucky to manage walking down a flight of stairs, so props to her for going this far.) 

 

This is the closest Fusco has come, figuratively speaking, to The Machine, right? I won't believe him not questioning who Root was listening too, even though he knows she's nuts, because Reese and Harold clearly knew she was getting orders. I've been dying for more Fusco and my least favorite thing about Machine-Heavy episodes is the lack of Fusco it brings, so if this brings him into the fold more, YAY.

 

I loved the chess scenes. Then again I could listen to the Gospel of Harold for a whole hour.

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Martine met Fusco at the station house, so she could identify him. That would lead to his partner, Riley.

But Martine never saw that Reese was Fusco's partner. And if she didn't see Fusco with Team Machine in this episode, then there's no way for her to connect the dots.

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But Fusco was not one of the Secret Seven, right?  He didn't have a special identity loaded into Samaritan.  (The Secret Seven were Finch, Reese, Root, Shaw, and Root's three Rootlets.)

 

So all Samaritan needs is his picture.  It wouldn't compromise the rest of them, but Fusco would be in danger.

Edited by Jipijapa
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Shahi is going to be huge with those twins. She's so petite it will be a wonder if she'll be able to stand.

 

I hope Shaw is alive, even if we have to see her in x amount of episodes behind a desk, a pillow or Bear.

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But Fusco was not one of the Secret Seven, right?  He didn't have a special identity loaded into Samaritan.  (The Secret Seven were Finch, Reese, Root, Shaw, and Root's three Rootlets.)

 

So all Samaritan needs is his picture.  It wouldn't compromise the rest of them, but Fusco would be in danger.

But they don't know Fusco is involved at all. Martine talked to him at the station that one time, but she suspected nothing. In this episode, Samaritan couldn't see what was going on through the cameras. The only reason The Machine could was because Harold and Root rigged it early in the episode. So unless Martine saw Fusco, Samaritan won't know he was there.

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This is the closest Fusco has come, figuratively speaking, to The Machine, right? I won't believe him not questioning who Root was listening too, even though he knows she's nuts, because Reese and Harold clearly knew she was getting orders. I've been dying for more Fusco and my least favorite thing about Machine-Heavy episodes is the lack of Fusco it brings, so if this brings him into the fold more, YAY.

 

I loved the chess scenes. Then again I could listen to the Gospel of Harold for a whole hour.

 

On the 'shipping front, Shoot has been shot but the simulations have now opened the door for Froosco.

 

As for Fusco getting clued in about The Machine, it's pretty clear he doesn't want to know.  If the rest of the group tried to tell him, he'd close his eyes, cover his ears and yell "LALALALALALALALA!" until they stopped.

 

My ideal resoluation is that Team Machine eventually gets Shaw back but Shaw goes into a coma due to her injuries, the kind of TV-coma where "she might come out of it tomorrow, next year or never."  Of course Shaw will get put in some special, Decima-proof hospital where the team can't visit her and the show will go on with the possibility of Shaw coming back some day.

Edited by johntfs
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That may just have been the best episode of this show ever.

 

Fusco kisses Root. ... Shaw kisses Root.

You just know that among those hundreds of thousands of simulations are some Finch/Reese kisses too.

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Ok, just watched Agent Dark's vid and I am such a Shahi worshipper and I actually feel pretty upbeat about the show's future. Hopefully CBS will still be airing it when/if Sarah comes back. I think how they handle Root's character is key. She is such a wild card...never know what she'll do or say. I think Shaw and Root are the most interesting and intriguing characters on POI. SS seems like a very very nice person IRL.

 

What's the opinion about these comments and observations? Just wondering.

 

    http://www.afterellen.com/tv/407771-root-shaw-finally-moment-person-interest

 

May I also say that I didn't really think Shaw kissing Root was necessarily a true romantic gesture. I think she realized at that moment that she was going to sacrifice herself and she needed Root to be completely unguarded so that she, Shaw, could do her thing. Pushing Root away right after the kiss gave her enough time to bring down the gate and go out fighting. 

Edited by prican58
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Some seal squeals. Lots of exclamations with acronyms. Endless praise to this show. Sad comment about Shaw.  Special mention  to Michael Emerson.

 

I love this comment so much!

 

May I also say that I didn't really think Shaw kissing Root was necessarily a true romantic gesture. I think she realized at that moment that she was going to sacrifice herself and she needed Root to be completely unguarded so that she, Shaw, could do her thing. Pushing Root away right after the kiss gave her enough time to bring down the gate and go out fighting. 

 

I was leaning the same way.  Not that she is disinterested in Root either, but that she isn't all the way there, you know?  But I'm not tied to this theory either.

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Yeah, I don't think it was a romantic gesture either.  From Nolan and Shahi interviews it's brought up that Shaw, always the mission-focused one, just kissed Root to give her what she wanted and catch her off guard.  

 

From her Entertainment Weekly exit interview.

 

Tell me about that big kiss between Root and Shaw. Was that purely for the fans?


But yeah, to be honest, I felt like it was more for the fans. The one thing that the producers and I did kind of disagree on was they felt like Shaw knew she was going to die. She’s against ten Samaritan operatives, there’s no way she’s getting out of this alive, and that kiss was a goodbye kiss. Whereas I didn’t see it like that. I don’t think Shaw goes into any situation going, okay, I’m going to die today. I feel like the stronger choice is to struggle to live, and so I felt like that kiss was just like, “Oh, shut the f–k up already, Root!” I felt like it was more trying to calm down a pestering child, if anything. “Okay, fine, I’ll give you what you want, now be quiet.” Just one of those moments. But again, I also felt like it was more for the fans than anything.
Edited by Mars477
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Yes, and I noticed that just before Shaw kissed Root, she rolled her eyes in that Sameen way of hers as if to say "I can't believe I'm going to do this but..."

 

I never really thought that Shoot would become a real love thang. 

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I don't know though--on a good day, a stiff wind could knock Root over (let alone an annoyed Shaw), AND Root had a torso wound. I don't think Shaw NEEDED to kiss Root--and don't get me wrong, I totally agree that (a large) part of it was definitely to distract her--but Shaw could've accomplished the same thing by punching Root in the stomach, or just shoving her back in general. I think it's telling that a kiss is the way Shaw decided to go despite the other motives.

Though I do totally agree that Shaw wasn't/isn't all the way there yet re: being into Root.

Edited by stealinghome
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BTW, if you read Amy Acker's tweet during the East Coast airing about "a skit by Britanick" being similar to the "generic dialog" scene- here's the skit (actually a fake movie trailer).  it's very amusing

 

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Somewhat different response from Sarah Shahi re The Kiss in this interview:

 

TVLINE | Going back to the kiss: Did Root get a bit inside Shaw’s head, or was the kiss primarily to hush her, so Shaw could get on with saving the day?
SS | I think there are a few reasons for that kiss. One, given Shaw’s “exit,” I think it was earned by the fans. They’ve been pushing for it for enough time, it was time to give them what they wanted. Two, I feel like it was a tactic for Shaw to just get out of the elevator and get done what she needed to do. At that point, she felt she needed to punch [Root] or kiss her, and the easier way to get her off her back was to plant one on her, throw her back into the elevator and shut the door. The third thing, I think, is there’s been a season-and-a-half of some pretty intense flirtation between the two of them, and though Shaw is famous for being guarded with her emotions, I do think that there is some kind of requited love happening – whether or not it’s happening to the extent that Root’s is, I don’t know. But does Shaw have feelings for Root? Absolutely.

 

For me, it makes sense to read multiple things going on in the scene.  Definitely, Shaw using the kiss to thwart any efforts by Root to hold her back from getting to that button, but also, Shaw ending up feeling something that may have surprised her - because of what it was (love/attraction) or how strongly she felt it, or both.

 

After processing the episode today, I'm kind of at peace with Shaw never returning (although I really hope she does, Sarah Shahi's personal circumstances permitting).  It was such a great way to go out, it gave us Root/Shaw canon, and it will no doubt propel some strong storylines for Team Machine in the rest of the season.

Edited by wevel
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It was such a great way to go out, it gave us Root/Shaw canon, and it will no doubt propel some strong storylines for Team Machine in the rest of the season.

 

Not to mention the new fan fics/videos to follow.

 

Even if SS doesn't come back to POI, she better be back on my tv as soon as those twins are ready to let mommy work again. I guess I will have to buy the "Life", "Fairly Legal" and POI dvd sets.

 

 

 

 

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I thought of Princess Leia kissing Luke before they did the rope swing thing - the traditional "kiss for luck." It also looked like Shaw was sure she was about to die and wanted to fulfill the only last wish she could for someone she cared about in the few seconds of life she had left.

 

I can't imagine having any romantic thoughts while anticipating a nasty painful death, but that's just me -- the wuss.

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I thought of Princess Leia kissing Luke before they did the rope swing thing - the traditional "kiss for luck." It also looked like Shaw was sure she was about to die and wanted to fulfill the only last wish she could for someone she cared about in the few seconds of life she had left.

 

I can't imagine having any romantic thoughts while anticipating a nasty painful death, but that's just me -- the wuss.

No, Leia pecked Luke on the cheek.  This was a Han and Leia kiss moments before he gets frozen in carbonite ("I love you".  "I know").

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Pregnancy/kids won't stop Shahi from working entirely.  There should be scope for her to be seen occasionally, being interrogated, brainwashed, incarcerated, etc, until she is able to undertake a more active, more central role again.  I just hope she will want to continue as part of the POI family.  Actors and actresses have been known to move on with their careers.  And without a doubt, if she decided to move on right now, she'd certainly be making that move while she was at the top!

 

I dearly hope she returns to the show.  Right now, there isn't a single member of the team I'd want to lose -- or think the team can afford to lose, and Shaw's absence, even temporary, is going to be really hard to bear.

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Loved the episode.

 

One thing about working with industrial equipment, you know what they are when its in background or part of scenes.  The group is walking in the basement of the financial building and oh, hey...they just walked past chemical feed pumps.  Why would Harold open up a fused disconnect switch and talk about how he can work on the engine? Must stop overthinking things.

 

Mee Too.... What's with the wrenching, anyhow? Start the damn thing....

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The 3 scenarios were all interesting. Decima has quite a team again. Greer telling Martine to have fun is kind of sadistic. First one we see Finch with Root in the program room and he got hit, and she was upset. Reese and Fusco were surrounded like the Alamo. Next simulation was with Reese and Fusco in the same room and Reese saved Fusco and took Lamber'ts grenade as he died and took him and his team out. Then Root took many bullets from Martine's team as she cut the elevator wire. During these we saw on the 2nd simulation that Fusco kissed "Banana Nut Crunch" Root. "It's just a simulation." Root called Shaw in the Police car to tell how much she liked her. Shaw also tried to get help from Reese to stop a trader,Gary, from blowing up the subway. Fusco tried to help and she finally talked him out of it. But on the 3rd scenario, they went in as a team of 4 and didn't have to shoot the operators. They installed the "fix" and headed out. It was cute where Harold was worried about the picture. On the last scenario they run into Martine's team. Root again calls to Shaw but she is there to help. She brought the bombers dynamite but it doesn't slow the Decima team much. The 2 girls together would be toxic. But they kiss.They try to flee in an elevator but it needs a button pushed to let it go down. Shaw holds the button and is shot by Martine. Couldn't anyone shoot Martine through the elevator screen door? We hear a shot at the end with Martine standing over Shaw?? But we had Reese and Root wounded, to.

I like Root when she calls Harold, "Harry" and when her and Fusco met today. He said, "This day is just getting weirder."And her reply," Nice to see you too, Lionel!"

Fusco is getting closer to knowing about the machine. When they were in the break room and being shot at through the door, he wonders what is up with Harold and Root talking about the Machine.

Nice that finally Shaw got Kenneth to give up the code. Luckily the 3rd time she got it, and she wasn't arrested. She also saved all those people on the subway.

I liked 2003 and Finch in the park playing chess with The Machine. I thought maybe the man, Marty who wanted to play him would turn into someone we saw later? Still might

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I have a theory about Fusco:  although Samaritan may have ID'd him now, the fact is that Fusco is a member of the NYPD.  If Samaritan eliminates him, Samaritan will then have to deal with the entire NYPD - who would certainly investigate the death of a senior cop like Fusco.  And Samaritan may prefer to use the NYPD as a vital tool rather than, well, have to take out significant chunks of the NYPD as well.

 

Fusco would be rather difficult to take out quietly as he is the officer credited with being a big part of taking down HR.

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Holy Shit, Person of Interest. That Episode Was My Everything.

 

About the last bit at the elevator, they say:

Root tries to stop Shaw, our sociopathic ninja realizes that there's only one thing that will shut the flirty hacker up. So Shaw gives Root an intense, passionate kiss. And releases the elevator. And dies like a hero, in a hail of gunfire, her eyes trained on the fields of Valhalla as the elevator doors close on Root's screaming face.

 

I must say, the cinematography in this episode was stunning.  The slo-mos were beautiful.

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What was that conveniently prominent elevator override button anyway? Are those common in real life? It didn't look like an emergency shut-off switch, more like the opposite.

 

Fusco would be rather difficult to take out quietly as he is the officer credited with being a big part of taking down HR.

 

Depends on how it's done. It doesn't have to be conspicuous. Nobody had any problem with New York governor-elect being taken out in the middle of her acceptance speech. 

 

One thing about working with industrial equipment, you know what they are when its in background or part of scenes.  The group is walking in the basement of the financial building and oh, hey...they just walked past chemical feed pumps.

 

I thought those fit right in next to the original paintings by major artists...

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Yeah, what WAS a Degas doing in the basement of the Stock Exchange? Must've been a second-rate one, as the GOOD ones are up in the offices of the Masters of the Universe.

 

HOLY CRAP! We didn't watch the broadcast and I stayed away from the forum yesterday so I could watch the episode unspoiled. And HOLY CRAP. I was screaming at the TV: THEY DID NOT JUST KILL SHAW (much to my wife's annoyance). 

 

Since Reese gets gutshot on a regular basis and survives, I'm hoping there will be at least some scenes of Shah in a wheelchair (all the better to cover up a twin pregnancy) or yes, in a coma.

 

I can't add much more than what's already been said, but the way this show knows how to blow my mind is SO good. Applause for the writer, director, actors & everyone who made that show look so damn beautiful.

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That was an amazing episode.  I think they left Shaw's fate deliberately unclear so the door is open for her return.

 

Person of Interest - Episode 4.11 - If-Then-Else - BTS Cast Video
Posted by DarkUFO at Thursday, January 08, 2015
http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/01/person-of-interest-episode-411-if-then_8.html

 

I don't know why great shows like POI never get nominated for Emmys (other than for stuff like sound mixing), but the same old dramas get nominated year after year.

Edited by tv echo
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and Shaw's absence, even temporary, is going to be really hard to bear.

 

Heh. What you did there, I see it.

 

Bespectacled Man is gonna have some serious splainin' to do. And Long Man better bring a metric buttload of donuts to ease the pain.

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Just caught up with this while staying away from the boards. OMG, what a great episode. But at the end I thought my head would explode. I didn't realize how much I loved Shaw until Martine was standing over her with that gun. I had to remember to breathe.  One favorite part was the Machine's reaction to Shaw showing up, the numbers just went up and it felt as if the Machine was as excited as I was to see the whole team together again.

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What was that conveniently prominent elevator override button anyway? Are those common in real life? It didn't look like an emergency shut-off switch, more like the opposite. used

 

The override button is commonly referred to in the industry as a mushroom pushbutton, because is looks like a mushroom shaped pushbutton Dah-dum-dum. Usually it is used and an emergency stop button "Oh no, something went wrong & we need to stop the equipment so someone doesn't die or explode" It is easier to smack it than pressing a standard pushbutton. You don't see them around elevators, its required to be next to generators.

 

I love it when there is electrical equipment in the background. I try to figure out what type of place they are shooting in.  I think this place was a water pumping station, because of the chem pumps and big motor starters next to the elevator.

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Awesome. A completely riveting episode. I got accidentally spoilered about the death, but I still loved every second of it. Of course, it helped that I wasn't that invested in Shaw (I liked her, and would definitely prefer if Reese or Fusco were killed, but she's not the reason I watch, that would be Finch and Root).

 

The script was very, very good. Kudos to the writer.

 

The kiss felt out of place, but I guess it's the same thing as Carter/Reese kiss last season, shipper pandering for the most part. Whatever.

 

I wonder if Shaw's gone for good, though. Shahi seems kinda coy in her interview.

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