S29.E14: This Is My Time / Live Reunion

[SimonHumboldt]

Putting aside the simple fact that no one actually knows why exactly Reed vote for Jaclyn unless he states it himself,

 

Someone on page 5 posted this which I can neither confirm nor deny .. well, I can but I'm too lazy

 

He point blank stated on his twitter that he did it so Missy would get third place.

 

That is really the only explanation that makes sense anyway.

 

I don't see anything wrong in voting for someone because you like them and want them to get second place because you know they're not going to win.

 

But she was going to get 2nd place anyway, in a tie with Missy. Reed's vote was not for her to get 2nd place, it was specifically to bump Missy from 2nd place tie to 3rd place.

 

I mean really Reed's vote even if it was to avoid a tie for second place is unprecedented for Survivor - really?

 

Yes, it absolutely was. When else did anyone cast a final vote specifically so that someone would drop from a 2nd place tie to 3rd place and make them lose $15K? It literally has never happened.

 

Again when we had All-Stars where Amber got 4 votes that were essentially 3 "I would rather die than vote for that guy who I loathe because he had the audacity to outplay me"

 

Yes, but again that is actually voting for someone to win and beat another player they don't like. It is not the same as specifically voting so that someone drops from 2nd place to 3rd.

 

"I hate this guy so much I can't stand the thought of them winning a million $$ so I will vote for someone I like better to win" -- that's fine. If you cannot keep someone from hating you then you do not deserve their vote.

 

"I hate this person so much that even though Natalie clearly played the best game and is the most deserving to win, I will nevertheless withhold the vote she deserves, and instead throw it to Jacklyn so that Missy gets 3rd place and $85K rather than $100K" -- that is absurdly petty and vindictive.

 

I hardly see this as some big evil move and certainly not the most vindictive ever in the 20+ season history of this show.

 

 

That's fine -- but can you name one that's worse?

 

There is a lot that does not get shown because these people have so many hours of footage and have to narrow it down to 13 one-hour episodes ... So I don't think one can automatically say it's "revisionist history" on the part of the players who were actually out there

 

Knowing how Final Tribal Council went, there is no way they would have cut out anything that would have contributed to the buildup of Reed's Oscar Speech.  Drama and conflict are gold for this show. Instead you have a bunch of people saying, "Huh? What's he talking about? Missy didn't come across that bad to me."

There is no way the editors throw TV Gold on the cutting room floor just to make Missy look better.

[ProfCrash]

I feel bad for Natalie in a way. She played a good game. She had a strong alliance, she rolled with the punches (losing her top ally), she won a few challenges, and she made some good moves (Keeping Keith, blindsiding Jon, blindsiding Baylor). She would be a deserving winner in a just about any season. So good for her for winning and surviving the landmines that come from playing with people who don't know the game and are just bad players but I don't think she is going to get the props for playing as good a game as she did because of who she ended up in the finals with.

 

I don't know that Baylor and Missy understood that the had alienated everyone at camp. Jon said that he and Jaclyn were the swing votes because Missy and Baylor were so stand offish with everyone and because Jeremy and Natalie were so tight. Keith might be a good guy but he had no sense of the game. Wes, Alec, and Drew are not going to win any awards for their brilliant game play. Her best competition was knocked out early on because, well, it would be hard not to look like a brilliant strategist next to Keith, Wes, and Alec. It made Natalie's game easier but it is going to change how people look at Natalie's game.

[SimonHumboldt]

She would be a deserving winner in a just about any season. So good for her for winning and surviving the landmines that come from playing with people who don't know the game and are just bad players but I don't think she is going to get the props for playing as good a game as she did because of who she ended up in the finals with.

 

Yeah, you're right. You can only beat who is playing against you. And who Natalie wound up with in the Final 3 with was largely due to her big moves.  This is as good a game as I can remember from a first-time player. Maybe a notch below Kim.

[kikaha]

Jaclyn has some excellent instincts for Survivor.  I bet if she played alone she could do quite well. 

 

I also think it would be cool to have an all-women's season.  Wonder how such a season would fare in the ratings? 

 

Finally, has anyone heard if Survivor has been renewed beyond season 30?

[Nashville]

I get what they were saying.  Being gay and being Christian or Muslim is casting yourself out from your family especially if you come from an evangelical home.  When Josh talked about coming out and his experience compared to Jeremy's brother was sad.  The Duggars are running around trying to outlaw gays from raising children and getting married.  Like it or not they are role models for the gay community.  If just one parent connected to their gay child then their work was useful.

 

 

Is that true of most Christians or just the fundamentalists?  I think most Christians are past it.  Even the pope is.  

Oh yeah, it's still true - a lot. My younger daughter is gay and attending graduate studies for her Masters in Divinity, and she has a very strong liberal activist bent (that's her Daddy's genes showing up). She originally sought ordination in her "home" demonination - United Methodist, one of the more liberal - but had to drop out of its ordination process because (a) the UMC still refuses to ordinate openly gay clergy, and (b) she felt it was morally dishonest to stay "in the closet " church-wise until after ordination. She's blogged extensively about her experiences, and you wouldn't believe the amount of "you're an abomination and will burn in hell"-type hate mail and blog comments she gets - some from pastors, and some even from higher-ups in the denomination hierarchy.

During graduate school she's also encountered many other gay divinity students, and she's told us she's been astounded at the negative reaction many of them have received from THEIR families if they came out to them. One of her best friends in divinity school - a sweet girl in her early 20s - just came out to her parents 2-3 months ago; they disowned her, and haven't spoken to her since.

So no, the rank-and-file attitudes haven't changed THAT much.

[JudyObscure]

I think gay acceptance is just a short distance away for most mainstream Christian denominations. The changes over the last fifty years, like women pastors, have started with the more liberal denominations and then trickled down the candle to the fundamentalist side. My own church is a combined Lutheran & Episcopalian and I think almost half of the congregation is gay -- right now that's because the gay Christians who grew up Baptist or Pentecostal switched to us -- but I think in twenty years there will be full acceptance. Heck, divorced people weren't welcome in some of these churches fifty years ago.

I liked Reed's speech because I think without it Keith and Wes might have voted for Missy. She could be very manipulative and with her beauty and her sob stories, I think she had Keith a little bit besotted. Missy spent the game getting her own way while playing up her three divorces as though she were the innocent victim of random afflictions. After seeing how unwilling she was to consider anyone else's opinion about things like how much rice to cook I couldn't help but think that the common denominator in those divorces was Missy.

After a slow start I thought it was a great season and Missy, Jaclyn, Reed, and Natalie were all strong personalities who made it fun for me.

[kassa]

I have no fears that the "collar" tribes will yield any more drama than the brains/brawn/beauty tribe did.  They'll just take people they have and assign them arbitrarily to tribes.  Just as the "beauties" turned out to be the most athletic, the "no collars" are less likely to be doofus stoners than surfers, bartenders and models -- young and fit and active.  Oh, there'll probably be some weird chanting grandma who will get the first boot, and some loudmouth CEO who'll go second, but do we really expect it to make that big a difference?

 

I will admit, however, 3 "labeled" tribes did help me learn who was who much faster. 

Edited December 18, 2014 by kassa

[Special K]

 Missy spent the game getting her own way while playing up her three divorces as though she were the innocent victim of random afflictions.

 

Not just the victim, but one-who-triumphed-over those random afflictions through grit and toughness.

[blackwing]

"I hate this person so much that even though Natalie clearly played the best game and is the most deserving to win, I will nevertheless withhold the vote she deserves, and instead throw it to Jacklyn so that Missy gets 3rd place and $85K rather than $100K" -- that is absurdly petty and vindictive.

I agree completely.  He could have just said he knew Natalie was going to win, but he felt like Jaclyn deserved some recognition for making moves to keep herself in the game, like convincing Jon to vote Josh out and for winning the final immunity challenge, so he wanted to give her a vote.  Instead, he comes across as one of the sorest losers ever.  He voted for someone not because he thought they deserved to win the game, but because he hated the other woman more and wanted to ensure that she would come in last out of the three.  Incredibly hateful, and it shows exactly what kind of person he is.  I am sorry to say it, but he is living up to the stereotype of the over-the-top, overly dramatic, bitchy gay man.

 

 

 

I have no fears that the "collar" tribes will yield any more drama than the brains/brawn/beauty tribe did.  They'll just take people they have and assign them arbitrarily to tribes.

I don't think it will be arbitrary.  With BBB, some people could have qualified in more than one category.  LJ for example was in Beauty but he easily could have been in Brawn.  I think this one will be less arbitrary.  If you work in an office, you're in White Collar.  If you work with your hands or have a street type (cop, firefighter, etc) job or a job that doesn't require going to college, you're in Blue Collar.  If you are unemployed, work at Starbucks, or are a struggling actor/model, you're in No Collar.

 

My issue with this is that I see very little difference from BBB.  It's very evident to me that it's going to end up that White Collar = Brains, Blue Collar = Brawn, and No Collar = Beauty.

Edited December 18, 2014 by blackwing

[Nashville]

I'd split it up in my head more along these lines:

• White Collar = "The Office" fans
• Blue Collar = "Blue Blood/Hawaii 5-0" fans
• No Collar = Phish fans

:)

[Bosman]

Congrats Natalie!!! By far the best player this season. A win well-deserved.

Oh, and poor poor Missy! If her feelings were hurt, it is because Reed spoke the truth to her. He wasn't vicious. Just factual. She got just what she deserved. Remember the flip off? As classy as her fringed bikini. It just confirms that Missy got a VERY friendly edit on the show. And I suspect that her supermom act was just that - an act for the show. I have little doubt that she parented Baylor only when she wasn't pursuing her next husband. Little wonder Baylor was so concerned about her mom cozying up to Jon. She's seen this play out her whole life.

[green]

So who are the all-stars from this season (if any)?

 

Given how much airtime Reed got at the reunion show he seems likely. I'd also say the self professed genius Jeremy. That's about it.

 

 

I don't see either ever coming back.  Jeremy cause he, like Josh, were your typical Survivor strategists that never make it past the mid-game level.  Neither is unique enough to come back because there are so many of them.  The only reason he (or Josh for that matter) would be asked back is to fill a token black or gay slot on a returnee season.  Because again there are so many mid-game strategists so it would  come down to the "types" needed to be re-cast.  Reality show casting 101 I'm afraid.

 

Reed not coming back?  Because he is a total prick without any entertaining qualities that make him watchable.  His audition for a future Survivor villain at FTC?  "Don't call us, we'll call you."  Not only was it mean-spirited beyond belief but it was as corny as hell.  If that is his idea of "acting" then I don't really see him lasting in even minor ensemble roles and he could never turn to trying his hand at writing given that over-the-top, pretentious doggerel.

 

I see Natalie for sure if it is a season where winners are allowed back.  I want to see her become Sandra 2.0 with two wins under her belt.

 

I see Keith coming back despite them showing us him spending 3/4 of the season treating women like it was a hundred years ago.  Apparently people have short memories and have forgotten all that.  But after going away from that edit over the last couple of weeks I think most people only see him as the "lovable" dumb and funny "hillbilly" (from the flatland of Louisiana but southerners always get stereotyped it seems) and immunity challenge stud now.  And given how hard it is for older people to survive long on Survivor, I'd think he would be a shoo-in for the "old guy" slot in a re-cast. 

 

(I like hearing that Probst is his age so is now an "old guy" too though he looks like a desperation sci fi experiment in reclaiming his youth gone completely haywire.  Botox makes people that have it done to them look like pod people to me).

 

I could see Nadiya in some "unfinished business" season as in Probst intoning: "She was voted out first while her sister went on to Survivor glory.  Will Nadiya show that she too has the right stuff in this second chance season or is she always doomed to failure and living in her sister's shadow for the rest of her life.  Watch her as she battles for her own self-respect ... yadda yadda."  Just the kind of over-the-top stuff the show likes.

Edited December 18, 2014 by green

[fishcakes]

Reed didn't say he voted for Jaclyn so Missy would get third place. He said, "It was clear Nat was winning, my vote was to ensure the rest of the order after Natalie came in 1st." That's as consistent with, "I wanted Jaclyn to come in second because I thought she was the better player" as it is with, "I wanted Missy to come in third because I don't like her."

 

The difference between true second-place and third place is $15,000, but the difference between being tied for second and coming in third is $7,500, so that's all that Missy lost because of Reed's vote. And his vote means that Jaclyn got $100,000 instead of $92,500 as she would have if they had tied, which I'm pretty sure Reed knows since he follows the game closely. He said that he liked Jaclyn and looked forward to being friends with her outside the game and it seems he respected her game more than he respected Missy's so if he thinks she should get a little more money than Missy and it doesn't take anything away from Natalie, who he correctly believed had enough votes to win, then I don't see the problem.

[gesundheit]

Reed voted for Jaclyn because he thought she deserved 2nd place more than someone he hated. People vote "against" someone they hate in Survivor pretty much in every FTC of every single season. I had no more problem with Missy than I did with Reed, but all's fair in voting on a reality show. I definitely don't think choices people make on competitive reality shows should have to reflect on what kind of human being they are in real life. Their show personas were both pretty annoying but it's just weird to me to make a jump from that to what kind of human beings they are. 

[Special K]

I'm just watching the Reunion now, and all I can say is:  Jeff, step away from the shoe polish.

Gah!

Edited December 18, 2014 by Special K

[Nashville]

I think gay acceptance is just a short distance away for most mainstream Christian denominations. The changes over the last fifty years, like women pastors, have started with the more liberal denominations and then trickled down the candle to the fundamentalist side. My own church is a combined Lutheran & Episcopalian and I think almost half of the congregation is gay -- right now that's because the gay Christians who grew up Baptist or Pentecostal switched to us -- but I think in twenty years there will be full acceptance. Heck, divorced people weren't welcome in some of these churches fifty years ago.

We can but hope. Truthfully I didn't care much for either Josh or Reed; they both came off to me at different times as somewhat smarmy. In this respect, however; if their use of the Survivor bully pulpit to publicly state "gay" and "Christian" are NOT mutually exclusive terms helps even one conflicted teen know they aren't crazy and/or going to hell, then they'll have done a good thing.

[blackwing]

Reed didn't say he voted for Jaclyn so Missy would get third place. He said, "It was clear Nat was winning, my vote was to ensure the rest of the order after Natalie came in 1st." That's as consistent with, "I wanted Jaclyn to come in second because I thought she was the better player" as it is with, "I wanted Missy to come in third because I don't like her."

It could be.  But if he liked Jaclyn so much and wanted her to come in second, he could have made a speech about how much he liked Jaclyn's game.  Instead, he spent 98% of his time on "Missy, you are the worst person ever in the history of the universe".  If he voted for Jaclyn to get her 2nd place, then he could have spent more time being positive instead of negative.  It's very evident to me that he hated Missy, wanted her to get 3rd, and did his best to try and humiliate her as much as possible on national TV.

[truthaboutluv]

"I hate this guy so much I can't stand the thought of them winning a million $$ so I will vote for someone I like better to win" -- that's fine. If you cannot keep someone from hating you then you do not deserve their vote.

"I hate this person so much that even though Natalie clearly played the best game and is the most deserving to win, I will nevertheless withhold the vote she deserves, and instead throw it to Jacklyn so that Missy gets 3rd place and $85K rather than $100K" -- that is absurdly petty and vindictive.

 

 

I still don't see the difference so we can agree to disagree and personally I think the first scenario is worse but I still respect the jurors right to vote as they please. Because the first is essentially denying someone who one knows played the game the best, a win purely because they hate them. Neither Missy nor Jaclyn was going to win. That was quite clear.

 

Reed made sure Jaclyn got above Missy because he thought Missy was a horrible person in the game. I cannot see how either scenario is really that different. In both cases it's denying someone else a vote because you don't like them and in the first, there's way more money at stake. And the whole "withholding a vote" against Natalie - 5 or 6 votes didn't make a difference to Natalie winning. 

 

Ultimately, my point is this, the comments about Reed's vote being the most vindictive and horrific act ever on Survivor seems like incredible hyperbole to me when multiple seasons have proven that people don't always vote for who they think played the best game. I would be more bothered if Missy played some amazing game and Reed made sure to throw one vote to someone who did absolutely nothing just to make sure she didn't win, oh like people have done in the past. But really Missy was no better a player than Jaclyn so big whoop she came third instead of a tie for second. Excuse me if I don't feel some great injustice was done to her. 

 

Going back to people not always voting on gameplay or at least voting in terms of players' strategy - see All Stars where half the jury loathed Rob, Nicaragua that Fabio, seriously, Fabio won because a bunch of the jury was pissed off at Chase for his blindsides and lies he told in the game. I'm sure some Russell fans feel the same about his not winning. Again Survivor is as much a social game as the physical which dramatic and over the top as Reed's speech was, he was exactly right in stating to Missy that the outcasts you vote out get their revenge in the end. That as Probst stated is one of the many things that make the show so fascinating. 

 

That's fine -- but can you name one that's worse?

 

 

Sure, voting for players who did nothing in the game over someone who outwitted, outlasted and outplayed better than everyone else because the juror is pissed and bitter that they lost and was outplayed by the other person. 

 

Knowing how Final Tribal Council went, there is no way they would have cut out anything that would have contributed to the buildup of Reed's Oscar Speech.  Drama and conflict are gold for this show. Instead you have a bunch of people saying, "Huh? What's he talking about? Missy didn't come across that bad to me."

 

 

YMMV but I think the fact that Jeremy and Jon were nodding their heads at certain comments Reed made, particularly about how she rationed and treated those not in her alliance was quite telling. Not to mention the fact that so many of the cast who played with them didn't seem to care for them. Baylor was called a brat multiple times on the show and Missy accused of coddling her on the show. We saw Dale almost lose it on Missy before he got voted out - so there were moments. They may not have been huge dramatic blowouts but there were moments.

Edited December 18, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Turtle]

I can't stop thinking about why in the world Baylor asked Natalie to play her idol for Missy, while simultaneously insisting that everyone, including Keith, was going to vote for Jaclyn.  If Baylor was so confident that Jaclyn would be the only person who would vote for Missy, why would Missy need an idol?  It just makes no sense, *unless* Missy and Baylor were thinking about blindsiding Natalie and wanted to get the idol out of her hands.  Maybe Natalie had the same thought, and that's why she realized one of Missy / Baylor had to go?  

 

Oh, I forgot to talk about the super gross, OTT sexism during the rehash of the Jon/Jaclyn fight. How embarrassing for everyone, but especially Probst, of course.

 

 

That was so awful.  Jeff might as well have just reached over and patted her on the head while saying "Pretty girl, shhh."  

[Miss Scarlet]

I can't stop thinking about why in the world Baylor asked Natalie to play her idol for Missy, while simultaneously insisting that everyone, including Keith, was going to vote for Jaclyn.  If Baylor was so confident that Jaclyn would be the only person who would vote for Missy, why would Missy need an idol?  It just makes no sense, *unless* Missy and Baylor were thinking about blindsiding Natalie and wanted to get the idol out of her hands.  Maybe Natalie had the same thought, and that's why she realized one of Missy / Baylor had to go?  

 

 

 

That was so awful.  Jeff might as well have just reached over and patted her on the head while saying "Pretty girl, shhh."  

I think I pulled a Natalie and "blacked out". I have no memory of this and like to pretend it never happened.

[SimonHumboldt]

The difference between true second-place and third place is $15,000, but the difference between being tied for second and coming in third is $7,500, so that's all that Missy lost because of Reed's vote. And his vote means that Jaclyn got $100,000 instead of $92,500

 

That's interesting. In Fiji, Cassandra said she and Dreamz both got $100K for tying for 2nd. So now they have apparently changed it so they add the 2nd and 3rd place $$$ and split it $92,500 each. Cheapskates. Ahh, if he wants to vote Jacklyn an extra few grand, whatever.  Still seems petty to me.

 

What would be very interesting to me is if, in some future season, so many people get the idea to throw sympathy votes around that they forget to vote for the rightful winner, and the "poor nice person who is going to get shut out and embarrassed" actually wins the game.

[fishcakes]

I can't stop thinking about why in the world Baylor asked Natalie to play her idol for Missy, while simultaneously insisting that everyone, including Keith, was going to vote for Jaclyn.  If Baylor was so confident that Jaclyn would be the only person who would vote for Missy, why would Missy need an idol?  It just makes no sense, *unless* Missy and Baylor were thinking about blindsiding Natalie and wanted to get the idol out of her hands.  Maybe Natalie had the same thought, and that's why she realized one of Missy / Baylor had to go?

 

Yes, I definitely think something fishy was up there, mainly because Baylor is no actress. Her, "saaaay, why don't you play it for my mom?" as if it had just occurred to her was less than convincing, and it was just so out of left field. I think they must have had some conversation about blindsiding Natalie, but unless it shows up as a secret scene somewhere, they'll never admit it, since Missy claims that loyalty* is her best thing. Then again, they did vote for Jaclyn, so who knows.

 

*in all non-Jeremy related matters.

 

What would be very interesting to me is if, in some future season, so many people get the idea to throw sympathy votes around that they forget to vote for the rightful winner, and the "poor nice person who is going to get shut out and embarrassed" actually wins the game.

 

Ha. I've been waiting for that to happen for a while now. I'd love to see the reunion show after that. 45 minutes of awkward silence.

Edited December 18, 2014 by fishcakes

[Nashville]

 Sure, voting for players who did nothing in the game over someone who outwitted, outlasted and outplayed better than everyone else because the juror is pissed and bitter that they lost and was outplayed by the other person. 

 

  

Wasn't this Russell Hantz's argument? Twice? ;>

I can't stop thinking about why in the world Baylor asked Natalie to play her idol for Missy, while simultaneously insisting that everyone, including Keith, was going to vote for Jaclyn.  If Baylor was so confident that Jaclyn would be the only person who would vote for Missy, why would Missy need an idol?  It just makes no sense, *unless* Missy and Baylor were thinking about blindsiding Natalie and wanted to get the idol out of her hands.  Maybe Natalie had the same thought, and that's why she realized one of Missy / Baylor had to go?

This exact same thought went through my head the moment Baylor spoke the words - and, judging from Natalie's reaction, I suspect hers as well.

[blackwing]

I can't stop thinking about why in the world Baylor asked Natalie to play her idol for Missy, while simultaneously insisting that everyone, including Keith, was going to vote for Jaclyn.  If Baylor was so confident that Jaclyn would be the only person who would vote for Missy, why would Missy need an idol?  It just makes no sense, *unless* Missy and Baylor were thinking about blindsiding Natalie and wanted to get the idol out of her hands.  Maybe Natalie had the same thought, and that's why she realized one of Missy / Baylor had to go?  

I don't think Baylor is a master strategist at all.  She thought she and Natalie were best friends and tight.  She truly thought that it was going to be her, Missy and Natalie at the end.  I interpreted the "why don't you play it for my mom" thing as just a way for the three of them to thumb their noses at everyone else.  As in, "the three of us are so strong and trust each other so much, no one can stop us, so Natalie is just going to waste her idol on Missy in a meaningless play since she has no reason to feel like she is getting voted out".

[Lakewood27]

This exact same thought went through my head the moment Baylor spoke the words - and, judging from Natalie's reaction, I suspect hers as well.

 

Baylor's casual mention that Nat should use her idol on Missy made all kinds of alarm bells go off. And it kind of explains why Missy/Baylor weren't mad at all about the blindside, since they were likely cooking up the same move.

[Alapaki]

His only purpose in giving that fairy tale analogy was to attempt to embarrass Missy on national TV.  So overly dramatic, complete with finishing theatrical hand flourish.  Well, for me at least, it completely backfired.  The only one that got embarrassed was himself.  It makes him look like a spiteful and petty person.

 

 

I wouldn't have minded Reed's little temper tantrum at FTC if he had been angry over any actual game moves that Missy made (or refused to make).  

 

Instead, it came down to "I think you were mean to me around camp, when we were on equal-footing, so now I'm going to use the platform of FTC, where you're not really in a position to argue back, to berate you."  

 

He was taking advantage of the asymmetric power-dynamic of FTC to be an asshole. 

 

And I get that the "social game" is a significant part of getting jury votes.  But we've seen plenty of bitter, angry jurors simply dismiss the person they're pissed at by saying "there's no way I'm voting for you, so I don't have any questions for you", and moving on to the other Finalists.

[fishcakes]

Oh, I forgot the best part of last night: the realization that I'll never again have to see Jon and Jaclyn mouth "I love you" at each other.

[truthaboutluv]

I have to say, the most shocking part of last night for me, was that Alec actually asked two fairly coherent and relevant questions during the final tribal council.

Edited December 18, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[blackwing]

I want the picture of a gape mouthed Alec to become the next Internet meme.  I wonder what he was thinking when he watched the show last night?  I'm sure it's an unconscious habit, but maybe seeing it on TV will encourage him to start closing his mouth.

[Guest]

I can envision Reed going to ponderosa and telling Josh, "Oops, I showed my mean bully face, what do I do?"  And Josh saying, "Why not just own it?  Go full unapologetic bully on her.  You can't be a winner or a hero, may as well go for villain, or at least a day or two of internet buzz about how supremely bitchy you can be."

 

We laughed at Alec's mouth too but I wonder if he's one of those people who just can't breathe through his nose well enough to shut his mouth.  

Edited December 18, 2014 by Guest

[Miss Scarlet]

I have to say, the most shocking part of last night for me, was that Alec actually asked to fairly coherent and relevant questions during the final tribal council.

That was shocking to me and also the fact that he was able to breathe through his nose long enough to ask those questions.

[Miss Scarlet]

Very happy that Natalie won. I only saw the Amazing Race season where she and Nadiya were out first and I thought their screaming at each other was hilarious. I don't know anything about the other season where she was supposedly really awful. I like that we have another strong female winner, who wasn't presented as a flirt (even though that's not how Parvati won the game, but CBS did "market" her that way) and was more visible than Kim (who is also great). I think sometimes Natalie tries to hard to come off as a "badass", but it's not the worst thing in the world. I hope future female players try to emulate her style of play.

 

The only thing I'm wondering about is her voting out Jon. I'm sure that she did this for strategic reasons, as well as emotional ones, but the show definitely played up the revenge aspect. If this move really was more emotional than strategic, then it wasn't good gameplay and if the goal to get Jon out to avenge Jeremy had ended up ruining her game (which it seems like it almost did a few times) then it would have been really foolish. Other players have been called out as dumb for playing emotionally.

[Lantern7]

Blackwing . . .I think Mario Lanza heard you, because check out the front page of his site, Funny115.com. Seriously, I feel bad for Alec, because all I can think of seeing him with the gaping maw is "duh" stretched out to maybe ten seconds.

[cooksdelight]

Remember the flip off?

Very clearly. Well, as clearly as possible since they blurred it out. That was what really turned me off to Missy. She's a grownass woman with kids. Trashy move, in my opinion. I didn't mind her so much in the beginning, but then her low-key whining and manipulations started to make me hope that no way in hell she would come anywhere close to taking home the money. Because she strikes me as the type who would go through it pretty quickly. First good-looking guy that paid her attention would be jumping on the gravy train of loooooove.

[Subrookie]

They still do them. I think they just didn't show it this time because of all they had to pack in -- a Reward Challenge, two Immunity Challenges, and three Tribal Councils. I bet if they hadn't had the Reward Challenge, they'd have included it.

Or maybe they didn't want to film that segment without everyone participating. Missy wouldn't have been able to do it.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Subrookie

[mojoween]

I really did not like Kim AT ALL. She is one of my LEAST favorite winners. I feel better now, heh.

I felt a little bit dirty during the reunion when I was like "who is that smoking hot guy in the back?" and I realized it was Drew. Amazing the wonders a haircut can do.

I am so glad the Missy and Baylor show is over. I've never seen one woman handed more rewards in my Survivor watching life. So glad Natalie saw through whatever ruse Baylor was trying to pull with asking Natalie to give the II away.

I don't remember where I saw it, but someone posted pictures of different Survivors backstage and holy moly, Julie's dress was actually a lace tunic. I don't know how she sat down in it without giving a free gynecological show.

I know it's not fair because we didn't see her for 39 days, but I think that I wouldn't have been as enamored with Nadiya as I was with Natalie. I feel like Nadiya is the instigator in that relationship.

Edited December 18, 2014 by mojoween

[Miss Scarlet]

There have been a lot of jokes made about Missy's 3 divorces and on the one hand I feel like yes, maybe it says something about how she's a difficult person, but on the other hand is it really that big a deal? Celebrities get divorced all the time. She can just tell people she's the Elizabeth Taylor of marriages. Also, in a weird way I'm kind of impressed that she got married 3 times. I don't know that I'll be able to find a partner that I can stand for long enough to even get married once!

 

Also, people have pointed out that it wouldn't be such a big deal if a man had been divorced 3 times. I think Rob C talked about how if Keith had been divorced 3 times people would be like "Haha, oh Keith. What a character". I agree that that's what the reaction would be.

Edited December 18, 2014 by wudpixie

[Donny Ketchum]

I didn't see it on the show, and didn't hear players complaining about it in confessionals.  Sounds like revisionist history because if any of this was on camera, they certainly would have shown it.

Nothing about Missy being overprotective of Baylor was shown in confessionals, but we did see bits of it on screen.  Also, in episode five, Missy and Dale got into it over the portions of food she would sometimes take.  So yeah, that was shown at least once.

[Donny Ketchum]

I think Natalie was better than Sophie. I'm probably crazy but I thought Coach should have won that season. Denise played a great social game and was great in challenges but didn't make many strategic moves.

Coach was in a good position, making all of the right moves the first two-thirds of that season.  But in the stretch, he booted all of his goats, some of his worst moves of that season, and then didn't own up to his gameplay to the jury.  Sophie did, and I can see why she won over him.  As for Denise, she did come up with the awesome Artis blindside that ended up putting her alliance in control of the game and put the awful Pete and Abi-Maria on the outside.

[Monty]

So good for her for winning and surviving the landmines that come from playing with people who don't know the game and are just bad players but I don't think she is going to get the props for playing as good a game as she did because of who she ended up in the finals with.

Given a choice between a challenge against tough competition and an easy win against chumps, I think I'd take the million dollars and live with a little less praise. And anyway, "Clearly deserving winner" is more praise than a lot of winners get.

[Donny Ketchum]

I do not take your final position in the game as a sign of how well you played the game. Stronger players are targeted earlier. A Good player figures out how to get around those pitfalls and controls the game. Josh almost pulled it off but was taken down by the Neanderthals and their behavior/ignoring Jaclyn. Jeremy almost pulled it off but was out maneuvered by Reed, who wisely did not tell Keith what was happening. Reed almost pulled it off but was taken out by Keith's inability to keep his mouth shut.

 

Keith did not understand the concept of a sub alliance. Jeremy had to explain that to him at Tribal and even after that explanation, Keith was confused. Keith was not told about Jeremy's blindside because they knew that Keith would screw it up. Keith was told that Reed was going to come after Keith and the immunity idol hard and that he just had to suck it up and say nothing. Keith managed to screw that plan up. Keith made it to the end because he was not seen as a target (which is why Josh and Jeremy were taken out early) he was a useful tool ( which is why he stayed over Alec) and he won immunity in a few places. His clueslessness helped him get further in the game but the only concern was that he would win immunity and not that he was going to mastermind anything, or keep a great plan secret. Watch his Ponderosa video, even Wes was frustrated with his play.

 

I like Keith as a person but he really is an awful player and did not understand any type of strategy.

This.  This is what I meant when I said I'd have preferred being targeted earlier as a threat.  And it's also why I fully supported what Jeremy said about Keith.  Jeremy was good at the game and a threat.  Keith was bad at the game and thus no real threat.  Or at least far less of one than Jeremy was.

[Guest]

Very clearly. Well, as clearly as possible since they blurred it out. That was what really turned me off to Missy. She's a grownass woman with kids. Trashy move, in my opinion. I didn't mind her so much in the beginning, but then her low-key whining and manipulations started to make me hope that no way in hell she would come anywhere close to taking home the money. Because she strikes me as the type who would go through it pretty quickly. First good-looking guy that paid her attention would be jumping on the gravy train of loooooove.

Now that I've seen just how vile Reed can be, I don't blame her anymore.  I'm older than Missy and not trashy at all but I'm not above flipping someone off when it's warranted.  It wasn't really the sort of environment where she could just say, "Fuck off, Reed."  

 

And I cringe at the generalization that anyone with multiple divorces must be a stupid, desperate slut with no money sense.  Not that you said that exactly.

[rozen]

I felt a little bit dirty during the reunion when I was like "who is that smoking hot guy in the back?" and I realized it was Drew. Amazing the wonders a haircut can do.

 

That was Drew? I was too busy being happy that Natalie won to really care who that random hot guy was. Ew, need so many showers now.

 

Jaclyn would never survive without Jon in this game, if only because she sucks at challenges. I have never seen someone move so slowly, yet still cause themselves so much injury, no matter what the task is. I can't tell if it's because she's just super uncoordinated, or because she was in starvation mode. 

 

Reed was absolutely correct, but said it as nastily as possible. There's a difference between "Boo, B, no money for youuuu" and "Stop trying to snow everyone with your SuperMom act, let me deconstruct your gameplay to ensure no one leaves with a false impression of how you actually play the game." I howled with laughter and clapped for his speech, because Missy was a nasty piece of work on this show. 

 

I love how Jeremy just got up to say that Natalie was awesome, and anyone voting otherwise was a bitter kitten. 

 

I used to 'play' chess with a little girl, 6 or 8 yo, so she could learn the rules. Except she preferred to take her knight, sweep my side of the board, declare "Flying Horseman take ALL your pieces," and claim victory. If we were in some alternate universe where she was allowed to do this, she indeed would be a winner, but she certainly would not be playing chess, or be very good at it. That's how I felt when Jeremy and Josh were discussing how wild cards like Keith make the game difficult. 

 

I need a gif of Natalie strolling up to Probst with her idol like a BAMF and asking Jaclyn "Did you vote how I told you too?" She looked so commanding, and Jaclyn looked so much like a meek little girl, it just made me giggle a little. "All shall worship me, and despair!"

[Miss Scarlet]

Oh, I forgot the best part of last night: the realization that I'll never again have to see Jon and Jaclyn mouth "I love you" at each other.

This. They remind me of that episode of Friends where Monica is freaking out because Pheobe and her boyfriend (the cop) are at the beginning of their relationship and really demonstrative with each other. Monica freaks out because she wants to be the one who's part of the hottest couple in town. That's what Jaclyn and Jon remind me of. Broadcasting their relationships not because they really love each other (although I'm sure they do), but mainly so that they can constantly show others that they are the hottest couple in town and that everyone should envy them. 

 

I didn't mind them that much as individuals since they were bland and inoffensive, but good riddance.

[Gianthambeast]

 

 

 

 Jaclyn's was, "I deserve to win because I did jackshit in the beginning and got saved at the merge because my boyfriend was still in it. Also, I have no uterus."

 

I get that players are lulled into thinking that their 15 minutes actually mean something to us, the little people, but their "inspirational" stories are always so lame.

LOL.  I don't know what possessed her to throw the "I haz no uterus gambit."  It was like she was answering a pageant question about how she would use her survivor winner's platform to help others.  Sorry Jacks, no dice.

[JudyObscure]

I think Missy's three divorces were only important in that she kept making them important. She brought them up as "proof," that she was, an expert on men, a survivor, a person who had been through all sorts of tragedy, a strong woman, and who knows what else. If we saw Missy or Baylor bring up the divorces five or six times, just think how often the others had to hear about it over the thirty nine days. I noticed that throughout the show she kept bringing it up in ways that made her look good, we didn't hear about the "shame," until the finale when she was crying about the meanness of Reed. Probably lots of people on Survivor have been divorced multiple times, they just didn't choose to make it their claim to fame.

[cooksdelight]

I don't think Missy would be foolish with money because she's been married three times. I think she'd be foolish based on things her own daughter said about her. How Baylor was always coming in second behind whatever man her mom had in her life at the time. I felt a sadness for Baylor because you could see the looks she'd get when Missy was conversing with Jon and it was "Jon said I should do this.... Jon said I should do that...." Baylor has probably been through that more times than she'd like to remember, maybe. She wistfully said that Jon was the son her mother always wanted. One of my best friends has been married four times and yet she'd never flip the bird at anyone. To me, it's the same as telling someone to fuck off, you just don't use words to do it. JMO

[riley702]

She was definitely playing for votes and even said so in a DT. 

What's a DT? Is that like a TH? 

 

I can't stop thinking about why in the world Baylor asked Natalie to play her idol for Missy, while simultaneously insisting that everyone, including Keith, was going to vote for Jaclyn.  If Baylor was so confident that Jaclyn would be the only person who would vote for Missy, why would Missy need an idol?  It just makes no sense, *unless* Missy and Baylor were thinking about blindsiding Natalie and wanted to get the idol out of her hands.  Maybe Natalie had the same thought, and that's why she realized one of Missy / Baylor had to go? 

I thought Natalie was twisting the knife just a tiny bit, when she told Jeff that she had been planning to play the HII on herself, but that it was more fun to play it for someone else. Did Missy and Baylor get excited, thinking she was going to play it for Missy? But no, she asks Jaclyn if she did as she was told and Missy and Baylor both have a "Oh, shit, we're screwed!" look on their faces. I admit I LOL'd.

[Miss Scarlet]

LOL.  I don't know what possessed her to throw the "I haz no uterus gambit."  It was like she was answering a pageant question about how she would use her survivor winner's platform to help others.  Sorry Jacks, no dice.

Yeah and  when she said that the title meant more to her than the money because it would inspire other girls with MRKH I was thinking...that's nice, but you do know this is the 29th season of a reality TV show, right? I guess she doesn't since it's pretty obvious she'd never watched the show before being cast.

 

Not sure if someone else already brought this up, but lol at Keith needing a do-over for his confessional and also his PMA - positive mental attitude! Never thought Keith would be into those types of sayings or self-help type stuff, but you never know.

[Jobiska]

Nothing about Missy being overprotective of Baylor was shown in confessionals, but we did see bits of it on screen.  Also, in episode five, Missy and Dale got into it over the portions of food she would sometimes take.  So yeah, that was shown at least once.

 

We saw her taking more food than members previously on the

other tribe thought wise, we saw her giving her daughter extra food (and thus showing the favoritism towards Baylor over all others that we definitely saw plenty of), but I never saw her serving more rice to the other people she favored/were on her alliance/etc. and skimping others--and if she kept doing that, why didn't they serve themselves?  I wish we had seen that on the show--I haven't seen the interviews mentioned upthread where other Survivors claimed this.

Not that I don't believe she annoyed them, just wish they had shown the exclusivist behavior (other than being exclusive of anyone who wasn't Missy/Baylor, which is annoying but seems to be a total given in their relationship).

Edited December 19, 2014 by Jobiska