S03.E09: The Climb

[catrox14]

aurel is controlling, I think even in the flashbacks Laurel is someone who likes controlling others and it's consistent to present day (e.g. last episode telling Quentin she wants to police to spend more time looking into the burglaries).

 

Laurel's controlling behavior was established in the pilot when she walked over and turned off the TV even though her colleagues were watching it.  So to me this keeping the secret because she can is just more of the same obnoxious behavior that's been in place all along.

[apinknightmare]

I just noticed that when Oliver tells Roy that Ra's won't kill him because he's fighting for Thea, the very next shot is Oliver stabbing someone through the lung with an arrow. God, show, you drop anvils everywhere and the one time I needed it to hit me over the head, it didn't. Ugh.

Edited December 13, 2014 by apinknightmare

[MsSchadenfreude]

 

Ra's Al Retcon who suddenly loves Sara

 

Ra's didn't suddenly love Sara. When Oliver came to confess and ask for trial by combat, Ra's told Oliver that he should have Oliver's head cleaved from his shoulders not because Oliver killed his daughter's "beloved", but because Oliver thought Ra's was a fool.  He agreed to the duel because Oliver dared to challenge him.  It was Maseo and Nyssa who referred to Sara as a great warrior, Ra's basically referred to Sara as nothing more than his daughter's girlfriend.  I don't think Ra's cared any more about Sara then he did the unnamed LOA dude he stabbed in the previous scene. Nyssa knew it that why she was staring daggers at her father when he made that comment to Oliver. 

[insubordination]

I find it convenient that the 'previously' was edited to cut out the 'She wasn't one of us' line.  This sentiment wasn't continued in 'The Climb'.

[catrox14]

That doesn't change that Ras didn't change his mind about her.

[insubordination]

Maybe it's the word 'beloved' that is loaded for me. He's going to kill Oliver 'not because you killed my daughter's beloved' (which is a very good reason is what my mind filled in), but because...etc.

 

It seemed far from 'She's not one of us'.  But hey, maybe I just watched it differently.

Edited December 13, 2014 by insubordination

[catrox14]

Sara can still be his daughter's beloved with out being one of them. They can be mutually exclusive things.

[tv echo]

I went back and re-watched this episode.  This time, I skipped over all the Ray Palmer scenes and Laurel family drama scenes.  I just focused on Oliver's story and tried to watch with a positive and unjaded outlook.  I also now had the benefit of reading other people's comments and insights.  The result?

 

What a big difference.  I could now appreciate the beauty of Oliver's story when viewed on its own.  I could also appreciate the wonderful acting nuances (esp. by SA and EBR), the irony of the Oliver-Thea scenes, the poignancy of the Oliver-Team Arrow goodbye scene, the bittersweet intimacy of the final Oliver-Felicity scene, and the stunning cinematography & choreography of the mountaintop trial-by-combat duel between Oliver and Ra's.

 

Too bad my original viewing of this episode had Oliver's emotional journey undercut by the Ray and Laurel B plots.

Edited December 13, 2014 by tv echo

[catrox14]

The episode should have really been totally focused on Oliver 100%.  I think it did Stephen's work a disservice to by shoehorning Laurel and Ray into this episode.

[wonderwall]

To be honest, I did the same :P I watched this episode and skipped the Ray/Laurel bits and it was A LOT better. And hell, I liked it a lot in the first place! I feel like if they focused more on Oliver and the last fight and the tension of finding the killer, it would've been perfect

[BkWurm1]

1.As a casual viewer you'd probably be freaking shocked that they killed the Arrow

 

Are their any viewers out there that really believed he was dead (say except younger ones that haven't learned yet?)  Maybe there would be a quick double check to make sure the actor hadn't asked to be written out (Downton Abbey, The Good Wife) but usually when that happens it isn't THE main star of the show.  You'd have to go waaay back to the 80's comedy Valerie where the studio and the star had such differences that they killed off the title character and renamed the sit-com Valerie's Family. 

 

The episode should have really been totally focused on Oliver 100%.  I think it did Stephen's work a disservice to by shoehorning Laurel and Ray into this episode.

 

Yes, agreed.  Add to that the flashbacks they should have been made much tighter and more relevant or scrubbed altogether.

 

And any B plots should have directly tied into Oliver's story.  Laurel could have been used in somehow sending the message to Oliver, maybe Nyssa drops in on her with the ninja squad just for kicks and laughs.  After all, Laurel is the closest relative.  Let her be the one to delivery the message about the deadline to Oliver and then she's out of the picture.  She can go hang at Sara's grave the rest of the show and stay out of the way.  Or if her knowing about the deadline is too much info, then they could have Nyssa show up more casually and that is what would prompt Oliver to go looking for Nyssa. 

 

Move on to Ray.  It's tougher with him mostly because he doesn't connect with Oliver at all and they got themselves in a bind with the kiss.  I guess they could have just wrote all his stuff out until later.  They could have him info dump his project and sob story on Felicity while she was waiting to hear back from Oliver.  One major change would be she wouldn't have cared less about the kiss.  There would have had to be no anger or irritation, just a she can't be bothered about that now kind of vibe and then Ray could have offered his explanation - cue her feeling empathy since she in that moment is worrying about losing Oliver - and then she seeks to distract herself with waiting to find out about Oliver but pushing Palmer about his real plans.   He would have made fine filler in an episode full of waiting.  They could have kicked Dinah into this episode as well, which would explain why Laurel was distracted enough not to be down hounding them about what's going on. 

 

Besides that flashbacks and the B plots, they also lost a lot of momentum rehashing things we already knew like when she did the virtual autopsy the confusion about the angle not coming from the average sized male made her think Roy could have done it.  How much better would the line have been to simply say the trajectory of the arrow had to come from someone around The's height.  We all would remember the other episode backing that up.  There seemed to be a few times like that in the dialogue that the characters were playing catch up to the audience and I'm sitting there saying yeah, yeah, yeah, get on to it.  

 

I just baffles me how the crossover episodes were way more packed with characters and plot and dialogue and yet I felt more time was spent on character  moments  and action there then here.  Like did we really need two scenes with Oliver facing the LoA in their secret hideout?  How about keeping just one scene where he gets the ultimatum and then let him relay his challenge by phone or off screen and get his instructions that way about being somewhere at a certain time.  Same with the useless scene of Nyssa going back to report on the progress.  A totally unneeded scene.  It should have been cut.   And the climbing shots with no gloves - I'm not sure how much time they actually used up but I know that bare fingers thing highly distracted me and took me out of the show every time. 

 

I think they just got too excited about doing Ra's stuff to remember the cardinal rule about only include that which moves the story forward.  Or they just forgot that rule altogether. 

Edited December 14, 2014 by BkWurm1

[quarks]

I guess they could have just wrote all his stuff out until later.  They could have him info dump his project and sob story on Felicity while she was waiting to hear back from Oliver.  One major change would be she wouldn't have cared less about the kiss.

 

 

And I think this would have been a better basis for any upcoming romance, because instead of having Ray pinging her phone and following her around, this would have been Ray and Felicity bonding over the loss of a loved one as Felicity is trying to figure out how the city can be saved.  Sure, that can all still happen, but I think that whole scene with Ray telling the story of Anna would have been a lot more powerful if Felicity was listening while knowing that she hadn't been able to stop Oliver.

[foreverevolving]

So i just watched the fight clip and i was disappointed to see Stephen stunt double fighting as Ra's..

You can clearly see it near the end of the fight scene when Oliver punches Ra's. a second before you see how thick and triangle like nable arms are (and how white they are) than Oliver punches him and suddenly the arm is straight and slightly tanner. Also i think he's wearing a wig.

I know i know. I'm just... Stephen and Caity really raised the bar in terms of stunts and now when it's not the actor i get disappointed.

Edited December 14, 2014 by foreverevolving

[dtissagirl]

Oh, yeah, you can see the stunt double playing Ra's in almost all of the fight if you pay even a little bit less atttention to Shirtless Oliver. Pretty much every time Matt Nable's face is not visible, it's not him. And they went out of their way to make sure his face was off frame most of the time, by making the camera follow Oliver almost exclusively during the entire scene. It becomes pretty hilarious on rewatch that Oliver falls down once or twice, and the frame just cuts Ra's head and shoulders off.

There's one particular time the stunt guy turns around and faces the camera, even, at 2:12 on this video:

[looptab]

The funny thing about this is that Stephen said many times, and recently in that Tvfanatic video, that it can't be the double, it has to be him doing the fight if he's shirtless, then corrects himself and says, if anyone's shirtless, but since clearly they used the double for Nable it makes me wonder if Stephen's abs signed a contract, too. Lol :)

[calliope1975]

Yeah, I could totally pick out Ra's stunt double every time, but I get it. SA said he worked on that fight for several weeks, and I don't think this show has the budget to bring in a day player for rehearsals several weeks in advance even if he was available. And no actor does all their own stunts, the liability is too great. Even those who do a lot (Tom Cruise, Statham) don't do all of them. 

[JenMcSnark]

I agree about Ra's stunt double.  It really takes me out of the scene both times I've watched the episode.  But I was very happy to have an excuse to try to focus on shirtless Oliver.

 

I really liked the episode both times I watched it. The 2nd time I did fast forward through the Laurel scenes.  I really wish that they wouldn't have even put those in there because they added nothing and stopped the show in it's tracks.  But also because it wasn't really anything worthy of a mid-season finale; the Laurel/Dinah stuff could have and would have been much more interesting and appropriate in the already Laurel-centric stuff we know is coming.  

 

I didn't have a problem with the Ray/Felicity scenes.  I think one reason they did that was to establish that both of them have their minds on others.  Felicity's pointed 'I know one' comment was to tell Ray that she is kind of in the same boat.  

 

They are both thinking of Mr/Ms Right and their kiss was Mr/Ms Right Now. It was nice, comforting, and probably even somewhat passionate on a sex level. But that's all it was.  And now they both know it.  It may have been handled poorly but I can see why it was included when it was. 

 

The MG comment about a 9?  I'm going to choose to think he meant cumulatively.  I really appreciated so much progression in Oliver's feelings.  And the matter of fact, yet extremely nuanced way Stephen played it was amazing.  

 

To me, it was somewhat of a callback to The Origins of Felicity Smoak when Oliver was such a good husband and was so caring and concerned about helping her through this horrible family experience.

 

Now it's Oliver's horrible family experience (although I know...when DOESN'T that boy have a horrible family experience?) and Felicity was just as kind, caring, and concerned.

 

Like others have said, it really started when Oliver was blaming himself and she touched his back as she reassured him.  And it grew from there.  One of my favorite Olicity parts was when she first came back and found him packing to leave.  

 

She knows him.  He knows she knows him.  He wasn't worried about hysterics or her begging him not to go and was rewarded when she said, with feeling, that she wasn't going to try to talk him out of it.  Then his reaction when she said she was going to ask him to do something.  Stephan knocked that one line out of the fucking park for me.  If it's her asking, he'll do it.  Because he knows she'd never ask him to do something that wasn't true to himself. And for her, like Thea, he'd do anything.

 

And then the goodbye, which I felt was perfect, and the death montage, again perfect.  They really gave him a progression of maturity and recognition.  Now I just hope they don't fuck it up when he returns.

 

I really liked the Thea/Oliver stuff.  I was very moved.  Except the brainwashing part, but I was totally expecting that after Stephen's comment about Thea not being evil.  SMH  And Stephen killed his scene with Malcolm. 

 

Sure there was some extraneous stuff but these guys do love shoehorning as much in as possible.  Overall I thought it was a good job by everyone (except some wooden bits that have already been mentioned) and I really enjoyed it.

 

eta: Thea/Oliver to be specific 

Edited December 14, 2014 by JenMcSnark

[shapeshifter]

Finally got a chance to watch this. One of my students asked how I felt about spoilers, and I said firmly, "No spoilers!" to which she replied, "Oooh, somebody dies!" which totally spoiled it for me at the end. Some people think they have the right to be Chekhov's gun.

So are they going to put him in Felicity's boss's hi tech armor thing?

[catrox14]

So thinking more about Thea.....I would have been so much happier if it was revealed that Thea had been told by Malcolm that Sara was in town to kill Oliver which is why she killed Sara.  It would parallel Oliver fighting for her against Ra's.   Sigh...

[foreverevolving]

This gif was posted on smaoknarrow tumbler page...
It's from the merlyn chocking scene. That is one crazy murderous glint in Oliver eyes. It is a bit scary i have to admit.

 

ETA: because i'm finally in front of a computer and can add the actual gif.

Edited December 15, 2014 by foreverevolving

[catrox14]

I loved that murderous glint. It was just crazy enough that even Malcolm was like "geez Oliver".

[SonofaBiscuit]

This gif was posted on smaoknarrow tumbler page...

It's from the merlyn chocking scene. That is one crazy murderous glint in Oliver eyes. It is a bit scary i have to admit.

http://33.media.tumblr.com/b427b88c27f89a1bdd57d81e6a52c9ee/tumblr_ngjj5o2YKI1s239dso4_250.gif

 

I believe that I made a comment about Oliver looking hot when he was choking Malcolm.  That part is exactly what I was talking about :)

[Kordi]

Here is another review of "The Climb". IMO it is particularly interesting because it analizes Thor Freudenthal's exceptional direction and editing. Ludwig Logan's comments helped me to understand better why I liked the climbing scenes and the final fight scene so much.

 

http://sequart.org/magazine/53054/tv-arrow-309-review/

[Ariah]

It occured to me suddenly, that Malcolm's convoluted plan would never had worked if Laurel didn't bring Sara's body to the Foundry, skipping the legal way. If she had called an ambulance, the case would have ended up with the police who would have found the DNA evidence much sooner and arrested Oliver for murder.

 

At which time Malcolm's little home video would do no good - unless he planned to break Oliver out of prison and still have him fight Ra's.

 

Hence, Malcolm's plan was made possible due to Laurel's stupidity. Way to go!

 

(Maybe that's the reason he decided to murder Sara with her sister in close proximity - he knew Laurel would react the way she did and ignore the logic)

[KirkB]

Why did Malcolm put Oliver's DNA on the arrows to begin with? My understanding of the plan is this. Drug Thea. Use drugged Thea to kill Sara. Use the fact Thea killed Sara to compel Oliver to fight Ra's. Either Oliver kills Ra's, which frees Malcolm from his debts to the League, or Ra's kills Oliver, which....on a separate note, doesn't really benefit Malcolm at all as far as I can tell. So what's the point of the DNA? It's not like the League was going to test for it, the cops don't even know Sara is dead, and Malcolm didn't even need it to make Oliver do what he wanted since he had Thea's life as leverage. The only people who see the DNA evidence are Oliver and his team. Oliver knows damn well he didn't kill Sara and the others would never believe it, so who is it meant to convince? Am I missing something, because the DNA doesn't seem to make sense.

Edited December 15, 2014 by KirkB

[dtissagirl]

I think the implication was that the DNA was Thea's, but I only think this is what they were going for because Diggle had a line in the Arrow cave that said something like, "what if the DNA was Thea's and not yours, Oliver". And then it WAS Thea. Which. THAT IS NOT HOW DNA WORKS, DIGGLE.

 

 

ETA, from the closed caption transcript, Diggle's lines were:

 

Maybe it wasn't your DNA, Oliver, maybe it was Thea's.
What? You two are siblings.
There would be overlap, maybe even enough to--

 

Still not how DNA works.

Edited December 15, 2014 by dancingnancy

[SonofaBiscuit]

And you know, that pesky fact that Oliver is a male and Thea is a female.  But whatever, show.  Hahaha.

Edited December 15, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[NumberCruncher]

With two different fathers. I mean, I can buy some artistic license, but this is hilariously implausible.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm still curious how Ra's, Nyssa, Maseo and the big Trunk o' Weapons managed to get to the top of the mountain.

 

Did they helicopter in ?  Drive ?  Take the escalator on the other side of the mountain ?  

 

Because that seems kind of unfair that Ollie would have to climb a few thousand feet of mountain while Ra's is got to the top of the mountain with minimal effort -- no wonder Ollie lost.

[SonofaBiscuit]

The scene with a Jeep full of multiple assassins and various weaponry making its way up the mountain must have ended up on the cutting room floor.

[catrox14]

Ras has minions.  The minions transported it all

[thuganomics85]

 

(Maybe that's the reason he decided to murder Sara with her sister in close proximity - he knew Laurel would react the way she did and ignore the logic)

OK, I'm still pissed over what happened to Sara, but now I'm laughing at this image that during the entire time Laurel was stupidly dragging Sara to the lair, Malcolm was just watching it the whole time on top of roof-tops, cackling and all "Wow, I can't believe this is happening! My half-assed plan is working!  Thanks, Laurel!"  It's easy being a bad guy, when the good guys do so much work to help you with your convoluted plans!

[calliope1975]

OK, I'm still pissed over what happened to Sara, but now I'm laughing at this image that during the entire time Laurel was stupidly dragging Sara to the lair, Malcolm was just watching it the whole time on top of roof-tops, cackling and all "Wow, I can't believe this is happening! My half-assed plan is working!  Thanks, Laurel!"  It's easy being a bad guy, when the good guys do so much work to help you with your convoluted plans!

 

You know he probably has video of that, too, and laughs and laughs. Now I want to know what else Malcolm has recorded. I bet he gave Slade that video of Shado.

[Ariah]

You know he probably has video of that, too, and laughs and laughs. Now I want to know what else Malcolm has recorded. I bet he gave Slade that video of Shado.

Malcolm Merlyn, the king of home videos.

"This is me, getting my first kill at the League of Assasins!"

"And this is me, shooting Oliver in the back just before Christmas, good times!"

"This is me, gloating with Ollie in chains. Good profile."

"This is me, dying. That was hillarious."

"This is Moira and me... Wait, that happened 18 years ago..."

[catrox14]

Malcolm Merlyn, the king of home videos.

"This is me, getting my first kill at the League of Assasins!"

"And this is me, shooting Oliver in the back just before Christmas, good times!"

"This is me, gloating with Ollie in chains. Good profile."

"This is me, dying. That was hillarious."

"This is Moira and me... Wait, that happened 18 years ago..."

LOL. Barrowman uses home videos in his concerts so I find this especially amusing.

[Kordi]

I just finished reading Matt Tucker's review of "The Climb". I was surprised that he is rather critical of the episode calling it a "muddled affair saved by a wallop of an ending that boldly asks many questions in the season going forward". Here you have his conclusion:

 

"With such a strong ending that begs us to ponder those possibilities eclipsing the entire hour, it would be easy to think of “The Climb” as a strong finale. Instead, it represents more the tepid and muddled approach to story that the season has had to date. Perhaps, at season’s end, when everything shakes out and we’re provided with all context, the hodgepodge quality of this nine-episode fall run will feel clearer and more connected. “The Climb” does manage to tie much together, which is an exciting development for the season when it comes out of the long hiatus. As for its relation to everything before the hiatus, let’s just hope it represents a capper to the ho-hum."

 

read the full review here: http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-3-9-the-climb-recap-review/20727

Edited December 16, 2014 by Kordi

[statsgirl]

I think that if I had been watchinh the show he apparently was, I wouldn't have liked it either,  Luckily, I was watching something else. 

[blackwing]

I enjoyed everything about the episode except for the parts involving Ray and Laurel.  I usually dislike the "48 hours earlier" flashback trope, but I think it worked here.  I also liked the cuts with 5 years ago Hong Kong Oliver and Maseo.  Good thing they put Oliver in that wig otherwise sometimes I might not know it was a flashback.

 

Really can't stand Ray.  I hope when the show comes back it's not "Oliver's dead/missing, Ray Palmer in his fancy ATOM suit to take care of the city".  I truly dislike Brandon Routh and his crazy eyes.

[paigow]

True or False: League of Assassins (Arrow) = League of Shadows (Batman Begins).

I am confused. Seems like LoA is accessible to the general public - e.g. Moira outs Malcolm to the Starling City Rep, Maseo gets a tryout - which makes it a farm team for LoS.

[statsgirl]

 

I am confused. Seems like LoA is accessible to the general public - e.g. Moira outs Malcolm to the Starling City Rep, Maseo gets a tryout - which makes it a farm team for LoS.

Arrow in general feels like a farm team for Batman.

 

When I saw the goodbye scene that Marc Guggenheim termed a 9, I sort of rolled my eyes a bit because it didn't seem like that.  But thinking about the whole of Oliver's goodbye in terms of the writing and directing as well as the acting, I have to agree.  It was some really good TV.

 

In the 2014 Goodbye Tour, first he goes to Thea because it began with Thea.  Even though he knows she's been lying to him, Oliver is determined to sacrifice himself to keep her safe.  She is what is left of his pre-island humanity, his baby sister, and everything that he is wants is to keep her safe.

 

In the lair, Oliver is packing his bag to leave as Diggle and Roy arrive.  To Roy, Oliver says "Take care of Thea", a world away from when they initially met and he warned Roy off as "Thea's disapproving older brother" and again a year later when he made Roy break up with Thea to protect her (and we all know how well that went).  This time he entrusts his precious Thea to Roy's care and then hugs Roy goodbye.  Why a hug?  Because he knows Roy, who is alone in the world, needs him, that Roy asked "Don't abandon me" and now there's a very good chance that he will have to do just that. So for Roy, there is the warmth and physical contact of a hug.

 

Oliver sidelined Diggle in the season opener because Diggle now had the responsibilities of a family and a child, he couldn't let Diggle risk his life and later Digg acknowledged that Oliver had made the right call. But now Diggle said he wouldn't feel right unless he was with Oliver, risking his life.  It's a long way they've come too since Diggle was horrified to find out who the vigilante killer was.   Oliver won't let him come along and they clasp hands goodbye, recalling the handshake when Diggle first signed on. It's a handclasp rather than a hug because this is a guy thing, two soldiers, comrades, acknowledging what they mean to each other.

 

Then Felicity comes in and realizes what's going one.  She's recently told Ray that there is one man who regrets kissing her, Oliver, and she believes it to be true.  When she tells Oliver she won't try to talk him out of going, she thinks nothing has changed from last spring when she and Diggle tried futilely to talk him out of giving himself up to Slade, that she's a member of his team and that's it.  But for Oliver, things are different and when he replies "I appreciate it", he does, because if anyone could weaken his resolve it's Felicity and what he feels for her.  He appreciates that she knows him so well and she accepts him for who he ism that she won't try to dissuade him from his mission.

 

Felicity asks him to do one thing for her and he answers that if it's her asking, he'll do it (I don't think she believes him any more than I do, which is a good thing) and she surprises him yet again by asking him to kill Ra's, to not only survive this battle but all potential battles with him in the future.   He answers that he knows two things and one is that he'll do whatever it takes to protect his family. It's not a promise to come back as she asked him for in 2x09 but it's the best he can give her.  He kisses her on the forehead, she grabs his sweater (you can see the neckline go down) and leans into it (SA rocks back slightly)

 

The forehead kiss works better for me than a lip lock in terms of both characters. For Felicity, she's still thinking that he regretted kissing her so a forehead kiss is all she'd really be expecting. But this is Oliver, who has slept with 582 women (per David Ramsey) and swapped spit with more.  Kissing Felicity goodbye is not about passion or lust, he's shut all that down to go do what he has to do.  Kissing her on the forehead is pure caring and non-sexual love.

 

He pulls away and starts to leave. Felicity asks him what the second thing is and he replies "I love you" entirely truthful for once and with no hedging.  Stunned and speechless, Felicity watches Oliver leave, and the curtain drops on the end of the act.

[millennium]

I suppose if you're a writer for Arrow and you run out of ideas, you just rifle through your old Batman comic book collection:

 

 

I still remember buying that issue the day it showed up on the rack at my local corner store, and I still have it in my collection, fortysomething years later.

 

I like Arrow, but poaching on Gotham turf really bugs me.

Edited December 18, 2014 by millennium

[Morrigan2575]

True or False: League of Assassins (Arrow) = League of Shadows (Batman Begins).

I am confused. Seems like LoA is accessible to the general public - e.g. Moira outs Malcolm to the Starling City Rep, Maseo gets a tryout - which makes it a farm team for LoS.

True.

 

LoA is the name of the group from the comics.  Nolan changed it to LoS in TDK Trilogy...not sure why, maybe he thought it sounded cooler?

 

I still remember buying that issue the day it showed up on the rack at my local corner store, and I still have it in my collection, fortysomething years later.

I like Arrow, but poaching on Gotham turf really bugs me.

 

The sad thing is, it's so iconic you don't have to look far to find it.  After SA mentioned the shirtless sword fighting scene at NYCC I googled "Ra's Al Ghul Shirtless Sword Fighting" and links to Batman #244 popped right up.  

Edited December 18, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[paigow]

True.

 

LoA is the name of the group from the comics.  Nolan changed it to LoS in TDK Trilogy...not sure why, maybe he thought it sounded cooler?

 

The sad thing is, it's so iconic you don't have to look far to find it.  After SA mentioned the shirtless sword fighting scene at NYCC I googled "Ra's Al Ghul Shirtless Sword Fighting" and links to Batman #244 popped right up.  

 

Must be some goodies in that utility belt, otherwise why take a sweaty costume as a trophy? 

[KirkB]

I suppose Nolan's reasoning was "League of Assassins" is a little too on the nose. There is no hiding or denying what that group is. "League of Shadows" sounds cool and is a little less obvious. Then again, in the comics, Ra's was more straightforward. He wanted everyone to know exactly what they were dealing with.

Edited December 18, 2014 by KirkB

[millennium]

You know what makes it worse?   Batman doesn't seem to exist in the Arrow universe.   I could maybe understand if now and then somebody said, "The League of Assassins?  I know they've made life hell for the Batman over the years."  But not a word.

 

The writers proceed as though the LOA is an original creation of the Arrow universe rather than an egregiously borrowed idea from the Batman mythology.   When you're a writer and you cite, quote or borrow from another source, it's customary to CREDIT that source in some way.   I'm not asking for footnotes or a "We'd like to thank ..." statement superimposed on the screen at the end of the show.   Just an acknowledgment from one of the characters, preferably Oliver Queen, that the League of Assassins is first and foremost the foe of the Batman.

 

I realize Green Arrow, Batman and the LOA are properties of DC and Warner Brothers (or whoever owns DC now) and they can do what they wish with their properties.   But it's not right.

 

Next season on Arrow:  Starling City faces two brand new threats -- the Joker and Professor Hugo Strange!

[Ariah]

You know what makes it worse?   Batman doesn't seem to exist in the Arrow universe.   I could maybe understand if now and then somebody said, "The League of Assassins?  I know they've made life hell for the Batman over the years."  But not a word.

 

Wayne Tech exists. It was seen on The Flash.

 

So maybe Batman is not yet Batman in 2014?

[KirkB]

I'm not sure of the legality of the situation, but I think while DC owns all the characters on one level they are 'rented out' to the studios who make the movies and other shows. So the CW is not allowed to mention Batman on Arrow or Flash any more than they are Metropolis or Gotham, and I think the WayneTech thing was a error that was never actually meant to make it on screen.

Edited December 18, 2014 by KirkB

[paigow]

I suppose if you're a writer for Arrow and you run out of ideas, you just rifle through your old Batman comic book collection:

 

 

I still remember buying that issue the day it showed up on the rack at my local corner store, and I still have it in my collection, fortysomething years later.

 

I like Arrow, but poaching on Gotham turf really bugs me.

RaG: (To helpless Oliver) Boy! You're not my first billionaire. [stab]

[patchwork]

Wayne Tech exists. It was seen on The Flash.

 

So maybe Batman is not yet Batman in 2014?

 

If Batman does exist I'm hoping his timeline has got to Oracle, Nightwing and Tim Drake Robin or even Damian Robin, no more of this beginnings crap. Batman's origin has been done to death.   

Edited December 18, 2014 by patchwork

[millennium]

Other than the Wayne Tech reference, the only indirect indication that Batman might exist is Felicity's humorous sensitivity to Cisco's use of the word "Arrow-cave.": We don't call it that -- ever.    There would be almost no reason for Cisco to blurt "Arrow-cave" unless there was already a Batcave.   Ditto for his question, "Is there an Arrow-mobile?"

Edited December 18, 2014 by millennium