MostlyC December 6, 2014 Share December 6, 2014 Nyssa returns to Starling City and tells Oliver that her father, Ra’s al Ghul has given Oliver 48 hours to find Sara’s killer or the League of Assassins will start killing the citizens of Starling City. Laurel is stunned when her father delivers a very special Christmas gift – her mother, Dinah. Meanwhile, Ray tries to make amends with Felicity and Oliver sets a meeting with Ra’s al Ghul. 1 Link to comment
wonderwall December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 (edited) .......I may have cried in the end even though I know Oliver isn't dead. WHAT THE FUCK ARROW. Edited December 11, 2014 by wonderwall 8 Link to comment
apinknightmare December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 Ugh. Mind control, Lazarus Pit, whatever. AND THAT SCENE WAS A 9 IF YOU DISCONNECT THE PART FROM THE MIDDLE AND ATTACH IT TO THE BOTTOM, WTF And Laurel is totally dressing up as Sara to fool Quentin. I'm angry, as I knew I would be. 11 Link to comment
mtlchick December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 There are very few shows where I will pull out my hair and yell "WHY MUST I WAIT!" And I barely watched Arrow until this season. That all changed tonight. DAMMIT SHOW!! Link to comment
apinknightmare December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 .......I may have cried in the end. WHAT THE FUCK ARROW. THAT KISS WAS THE LAST THING HE SAW WHYYYYYYY WHYYYYYYYY 21 Link to comment
SonofaBiscuit December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 (edited) Yeah, see, if they ever want me to like Ray, they need to stop doing things like having him ping Felicity's phone to find her location. Doing that just to have a conversation? Totally inappropriate. But, during their conversation, I did love Felicity's "I can think of one" when Ray said that he couldn't imagine a guy on this planet that would regret kissing her. So, good job telling your mom about Sara's death, Laurel, but Quentin needs to know now, too. And oh great, we have Dinah encouraging Laurel to find Sara's killer and make that person pay. Your ex husband is a cop, let him handle this! Oliver looked totally hot when he was about to choke Merlyn to death. I'm guessing that Thea really isn't the killer, and Merlyn was just manipulating Oliver to get him to fight Ra's. The video is probably doctored somehow. Way too much jumping around this episode. OK, I loved Oliver telling Felicity, "Well, if it's you asking, I'll do it." That's right, you'll do whatever she asks. And of course I loved Oliver telling Felicity that he loves her. But sorry, that goodbye scene wasn't a 9 out of 10. You definitely oversold that one, Guggenheim. However, I'm gonna take it because it was better than what I was expecting based on people's thoughts in the Spoiler thread today :) Ooh, SA and his rosy nosy looked really cold in that shirtless scene. Dang, I thought Oliver would be more impressive with the swords. Man, that ending was rough, but I'm happy that when Oliver's life flashed before his eyes, one of the images was his kiss with Felicity. So, is Malcolm going to nurse Oliver back to health? Someone finds his body (please, NO Lazarus Pit crap). Edited December 11, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit 13 Link to comment
El Seed December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 Someone call Miracle Max! Oliver is only mostly dead, don't check those pockets for loose change just yet. 17 Link to comment
wonderwall December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 (edited) THAT KISS WAS THE LAST THING HE SAW WHYYYYYYY WHYYYYYYYY RIGHT?!?! WhAT THE FUCK WRITERS THAT SCENE WAS A 9 to ME. NOT THE OLICITY SCENE BEFORE THAT. I'd give that scene a solid 7 because it really was touching. Edited December 11, 2014 by wonderwall 2 Link to comment
phoenics December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 I - just cannot form complete thoughts right now. Blah blah Lazarus Pit blah blah Felicity last thought he had blah blah segmentation fault.. #dead. 2 Link to comment
apinknightmare December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 (edited) OK, I loved Oliver telling Felicity, "Well, if it's you asking, I'll do it." That's right, you'll do whatever she asks. And of course I loved Oliver telling Felicity that he loves her. But sorry, that goodbye scene wasn't a 9 out of 10. You definitely oversold that one, Guggenheim. However, I'm gonna take it because it was better than what I was expecting based on people's thoughts in the Spoiler thread today :) Ooh, SA and his rosy nosy looked really cold in that shirtless scene. Dang, I thought Oliver would be more impressive with the swords. Man, that ending was rough. Yeah, the Felicity and Oliver thing was a lot better than I expected. I'm disappointed that she didn't say anything though. And I don't think her asking him to kill Ra's was at all OOC. His death was pretty good, as far as those things go. And Ray is SUCH a creep. Although I'm glad his plans for her involved saving the city. But ugh, they're going to bond over dead loves, like...fuck that Edited December 11, 2014 by apinknightmare 6 Link to comment
mybabyaidan December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 I overlooked the 9 out of 10 thing because of the things Ollie saw before he "died"....His dad, mom, Thea and Felicity. I would have liked more than a forehead kiss, but will take the definite "I love you" as well. I'll have to re watch to have more coherent thoughts. 1 Link to comment
benteen December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 (edited) Excellent episode and one of the best of this season. I wasn't that impressed with the actor playing Ra but thought the duel was again, excellent. Hell of a plan there by Merlyn. Ray stalking Felicity annoyed me but I'm glad she demanded to know what he was doing. So that earned points. Only thing I'll say about the Laurel scenes is that it's always nice to see Alex Kingston. Looking forward to when the show returns. Edited December 11, 2014 by benteen Link to comment
blixie December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 Incredibly mediocre job Team Arrow. Hypnotized Thea, how utterly pointless has this entire half season been? My favorite part of the episode was Ray/Felicity. Meh. So much meh. 1 Link to comment
bluemapleleaf December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 (edited) Wow. Could someone please tell me how they get back from stabbed Oliver going off a cliff? Also...if Felicity really let Oliver go off to certain death without a word after his ILY?? C'mon man. I have nothing good to say about Laurel and her situation so... Edited December 11, 2014 by bluemapleleaf 3 Link to comment
dtissagirl December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 I'd like to congratulate the Spoiler Thread for calling it on pretty much everything that happened while using "NO WAY THIS IS WHAT IS GONNA HAPPEN BUT" as disclaimer for every accurate guess. 18 Link to comment
apinknightmare December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 Wow. Could someone please tell me how they get back from stabbed Oliver going off a cliff? Also...if Felicity really let Oliver go off to certain death without a word after his ILY?? C'mon man. I havs nothing good to say about Laurel and her situation so... He's going to get Lazarus Pit-ed And yeah, I just...I cannot believe after that sweet moment from him she just let him leave without saying anything at all. I'm not faulting her, I get why she might be scared to, but...he might not come back? I don't know. 3 Link to comment
Angel12d December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 The fight scenes were great but on the whole that was pretty underwhelming and that's saying something when the main character just 'died.' 3 Link to comment
SonofaBiscuit December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 So are people actually thinking that Oliver is dead (and will go into the Lazarus Pit)? I'm hoping that he's just mostly dead. 5 Link to comment
SleepDeprived December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 So, I caved and found an alternative means to watch because I'm weak and the show won't be starting here for another 2 hours. I'll still watch live because I do wanna support the show ratings for this episode (also, to alleviate my guilt). What the fuck was that?! I was anxious about that?! Imma need a moment to think about all that happened. As an aside, though, most posters on the spoiler thread? Are far more imaginative than the writers of this show! 1 Link to comment
Lantern7 December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 Well, that was anticlimactic. Ra's basically made Ollie into his punk, and for what? Because Malcolm wanted to be released from his blood debt to the League. I'd call Malcolm a "Magnificent Bastard" like we did with Lionel Luthor back in the day, but Malcolm's plan reeked of desperation and mind control agents. So . . . Thea killed Sara? Damn. And she had no idea that she was doing it. That seems to be par for the course for this show. I did like Thea's sweet moves facing "Arrow," though. And nice lie about a bird going "Hitchcock" into the busted window. At least we got Shirtless Oliver out of the episode. Too bad the rest of it wasn't that great. And I can see where Laurel gets the insanity from. Damn it, Alex Kingston, you're supposed to be better than this. What's an ILY? I missed that in Acronym School. 6 Link to comment
wonderwall December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 The fight scenes were great but on the whole that was pretty underwhelming and that's saying something when the main character just 'died.' I think it's supposed to be underwhelming because there's no way Oliver could ever beat or even have a chance of beating Ra's Al Ghul. 10 Link to comment
Jediknight December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 I'm glad they didn't go with Oliver beating Ra's. Batman can barely beat Ra's, and he's been training his whole life. With his training, Oliver didn't even come close to standing a chance. I'm glad that they went that way, and had Ra's thoroughly stomp Oliver. Oliver lasted for awhile, but it was obvious they wrote it as Ra's was toying with Oliver. Good thing for Oliver, that Nyssa and Maseo were there. They can now find Oliver's body, toss him into a Lazarus Pit, and bring him back. Nyssa wants to know who really killed Sara, and Maseo won't let his friend go out like that. I'd like to think that's why Ra's was holding back, and invited those 2, he wants Oliver brought back to life so he can find the true killer. Laurel is really horrible at keeping secrets. The only one she won't tell that Sara's dead is her father, she has no problem telling Ted Grant, Thea, or her mother, but when it comes to Quentin, she won't tell him. With the way they've written her, once she becomes the Black Canary she'll be telling villains about her sister's death, but also telling them "Don't tell my father Quentin Lance." Now I've got mention something shallow. This is a show that has had Emily Bett Rickards, Katie Cassidy, Celina Jade, and Caity Lotz, so there's been no shortage of beautiful women. That being said Katrina Law as Nyssa blows them all out of the water, and that's saying something. She's just freaking stunning. 15 Link to comment
bluemapleleaf December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 I am slow...what's a lazarus pit? 1 Link to comment
apinknightmare December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 So are people actually thinking that Oliver is dead (and will go into the Lazarus Pit)? I'm hoping that he's just mostly dead. I kind of don't know how you'd survive that. I mean, he was stabbed through the chest and bled out the mouth and then fell hundreds of feet onto a large rock. 1 Link to comment
Soulfire December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 Okay so that entire episode was pretty predictable. Still loved the fight between Oliver and Ra's at the end and, as far as "deaths" go, Oliver's was a good one. Thea fighting Oliver as the Arrow was totally BADASS. Everything about Felicity and Ray was like watching a bad fanfic. I feel bad for Roy. He had like... two lines this episode? And how come he didn't have a stronger reaction to Thea being a murderer, under the influence or not? Oliver and Felicity were great but... a 9? Really? Someone needs to find out just how bad MG's grade in Maths was. Also. One day I want an 'I love you' AND a kiss. Still, the last thing on his mind... I only have one question: how can Felicity NOT be looking after Oliver after this? 9 Link to comment
Betweenthisandthat December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 (edited) They sure did put a lot in this episode. The Felicity and Ray stuff felt like it belonged in a different episode or another show. They're so much lighter, even when talking about dead lovers, than the rest of the characters. I'd almost rather watch her work with Atom. There's something about the two of them. They have the same kind of energy where Oliver is more dark dark dark dark. I kind of liked them, even if I also thought that entire storyline of theirs was a distraction from the central storyline. But I might have liked there scenes more than almost anything else tonight I'm not the world's biggest Olicity shipper, but I was expecting more passion between them since Oliver was going off to such a dangerous mission. He said ILY and the kiss flashback etc, but I thought for all the fuss they get that their would be something else. Best scenes Oliver had were with Thea, but she's been gone for so long that the impact about her being the killer didn't really hit me. It was a twist, but I wish we'd see more of her with Laurel, Felicity, Oliver, anybody to be invested in this. I don't mind Laurel and I liked her scenes with Dinah and Thea. I wish this "don't tell dad" storyline was better. But everyone seems to be okay with it, so...that lowers the stakes. I wish that happened more often. This show has so many characters and yet it forgets the relationships that used to exist and then trot them out when convenient that it starts to feel telegraphed. I wish we saw the women on this show interacting more than they do. I'm much more interested in them anyway. Why would Malcolm want Oliver to fight Ra's when Malcolm already beat Oliver. He's not the strongest fighter. Oliver's great but that whole motivation of framing Thea so that Oliver could kill Ra's? I'd get it if Merlyn did this to get Oliver out of his life completely, but not for the reason we got. I'm curious to see how things unfold, but I can also wait awhile to see it. We know Oliver isn't dead, so that kills some of the anticipation for me. If it was Diggle or Roy - who has zero storyline right now - or a secondary character, I'd be more shocked and wondering how and if they'd survive - but Oliver is the show. SO he'll live somehow. I'm more interested in what will happen when and if Thea finds out about what she did. That's at least one thing I haven't heard about yet. Edited December 11, 2014 by Betweenthisandthat 1 Link to comment
Soulfire December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 I kind of don't know how you'd survive that. I mean, he was stabbed through the chest and bled out the mouth and then fell hundreds of feet onto a large rock. ... but at least he didn't land on a dumpster. (Sorry.) 19 Link to comment
Artsda December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 (edited) THAT KISS WAS THE LAST THING HE SAW WHYYYYYYY It was the last thing he saw and just earlier in the same episode Felicity's saying he regrets it. So much angst! Loved Felicity's "Why does this keep happening to me." LOL So funny, Oliver, Barry and now Ray. Thea being the one to kill Sara wasn't a big shock. Liked Oliver's dumb face when Thea starting fighting back against Arrow and jumped off the balcony. If Oliver can survive that, then they can bring Sara back. She can be alive from a couple Arrows if Oliver can survive that attack and fall. Edited December 11, 2014 by Artsda 2 Link to comment
strikera0 December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 (edited) Ok, do the Arrow writers think we are stupid? They totally changed the dialogue of the Ra's/Nyssa scene (episode 4) in the previouslies to make it fit the story of this episode. They probably decided on Thea as Sara's killer shortly before they wrote this script. And of course, they didn't have really commit to this vision, either. They went for the copout and made it so that she was drugged by Malcolm. It's too bad that Malcolm didn't remember the existence of this powerful drug when he was trying to get his son Tommy on his side back in season 1. The Ra's/Oliver duel was nice to watch and obviously, Oliver isn't going to stay dead. He will be brought back by the Lazarus Pits (sadly, character resurrections are only reserved for male characters on this show). As for Maseo's membership in the League Of Assassins, it better not mean that Katana is dead. If it turns out that they have fridged another female character for the sake of man pain, I am going to riot. I'm sorry for my negativity, but as a non-Olicity-shipping Arrow-watcher, I'm feeling very bitter tonight. Edited December 11, 2014 by strikera0 7 Link to comment
SonofaBiscuit December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 I know that this is ridiculous, but I'm just not okay with Oliver really being dead and them using a Lazarus Pit on him. It seems too magical to me, and I liked that this show was mostly based in reality. I think this is the thing that bothers me the most about the finale, actually! I can't let it go. Maybe Malcolm has some magical healing herbs to use on Oliver, or something (but probably not)? But like people said in the Spoilers thread, if they use the Lazarus Pit on Oliver, now everyone will be demanding they use it on Sara and whoever else dies. 5 Link to comment
apinknightmare December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 (edited) The only bright spot for my shipper heart is that I have no doubt Oliver and Felicity are endgame now. WHYYYY, he just said he loved her with so much ease and conviction and then that kiss as he died. Ugh, show. As for Maseo's membership in the League Of Assassins, it better not mean that Katana is dead. If it turns out that they have fridged another female character for the sake of man pain, I am going to riot. Well, Oliver was careful to say "after" when talking about Tatsu, so either she died or had to...I don't know, join the Triad in exchange for something and she never came back. Or she went batshit evil. But this is Arrow, so she probably died. Edited December 11, 2014 by apinknightmare 5 Link to comment
opus December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 So ARROW is done. Join us Jan. 21 for the first episode of FELICITY. Oh wait, that's been done. Just don't get a haircut, EBR. 18 Link to comment
Actionmage December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 Why is Quentin the absolute last of our merry band to know about his own damn daughter's death?! A complete stranger to her is calling death squads out to kill on behalf of her (okay, the LoA's "bruised" ego), but the man who loves her to pieces is not allowed to know?! Dinah's buying into this bullshit?! Thea is not allowed agency in murdering Sara, so the men around her have angst? Some effing plant? Not even Malcolm's fancy League of Assassin powers could make Thea murder someone? Moira picture ornament and memory! Roy being understanding and cool, despite not having much to do. Diggle being Diggle. Of course John was correct and would totes be your second at any duel. It's John effing Diggle. Felicity, hon, it keeps happening to you because you are the awesomest awesome to awesome. Still, after Ollie's Painful Adventure, you need to sit the two nits down so they can coordinate their help. You'd be doing Starling City a favor. Obviously, Oliver isn't most sincerely dead, but I got very teary and sniffly too. Maybe Oliver needs to remember that not choosing a weapon was an option too. Ra's didn't need one and did you need more scars? Granted, more unique than a snow globe, but hey. I did like the nod to last night's Flash episode; it was quick and didn't take time away from the episode. More after I settle a bit. #TellQuentin! 9 Link to comment
wonderwall December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 How was Matt Nable as Ra's? He is not that overtly menacing. He's a great dueler though. I think he's a silent force. I liked him? IDK 6 Link to comment
Angel12d December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 (edited) That scene where Ray tells Felicity about Anna(?) was so bad, I was eye rolling so hard. Yet another woman was fridged to propel a man's heroic journey. YAWN. I was disappointed that Felicity didn't tell Oliver she loved him, although he didn't exactly give her much of a chance as he just walked out after he said 'I love you.' I understand why though. Oliver was told to settle his affairs and he needed to tell her that before he left. I get it. That scene was good but in no way was it a 9. MG needs to learn how to count. I did love how his kiss with Felicity was the last thing he saw though. MY HEART. As he was dying he saw his dad, mom and sister and Felicity. If that's not a hint at endgame I really don't know what is tbh. Omg the journey is going to painful. I enjoyed Thea fighting with the Arrow. I did not enjoy her being brainwashed. Such a copout. So was this just one big plan of Malcolm's? To get rid of Oliver and be released from his debt at the same time. He's a multitasker, I'll give him that. Edited December 11, 2014 by Angel12d 8 Link to comment
apinknightmare December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 He is not that overtly menacing. He's a great dueler though. I think he's a silent force. I liked him? IDK Yeah, I actually liked him? I didn't find him scary or menacing until he started whooping Oliver's ass. Since he looked like he just came off a frat house bender during parents' weekend at his son's college. I like that he's 67+ and kind of looks not that great, haha. 2 Link to comment
redsox7819 December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 God I am not sure my eyes still work after all that eye rolling. The WTF that was supposed to be holy hell what they done was more like WTF, you really think we are that stupid. 1 Link to comment
Angel12d December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 (edited) Oh and given the look that Nyssa gave her father after he said something about Sara being his daughter's beloved (which conflicts with what he said to her before) I wouldn't be surprised if Nyssa joins Maseo in taking Oliver to the lazarus pit or whatever thing they're going to cook up to save him from death. Edited December 11, 2014 by Angel12d 3 Link to comment
wonderwall December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 Basically that final scene Oliver saw his family: his father, his mother, Thea, and his wife, Felicity. Duh. That was a great scene. God I am not sure my eyes still work after all that eye rolling. The WTF that was supposed to be holy hell what they done was more like WTF, you really think we are that stupid. I think it's because us internet users know that Oliver will be back in episode 13 ;) I'm sure people who are none the wiser would be all "WHAT THE FUCKKK" right now. Also, if they are using the Lazarus Pit on Oliver, will he come back a bit mental? 2 Link to comment
Betweenthisandthat December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 Thea is not allowed agency in murdering Sara, so the men around her have angst? Some effing plant? Not even Malcolm's fancy League of Assassin powers could make Thea murder someone? It is uncomfortable that Sara was murdered and Thea made a murderer so that these guys get a plot. Malcolm has her killed by his daughter give Oliver a reason to kill Ra's and so he can be free. This has nothing to do with Sara and her life choices or Thea and her decisions. That's the plot I heard tonight. What is that? I have to turn off my brain to watch this stuff, and that's not a comfortable feeling. And as someone said before, why didn't Malcolm use this drug on his son? 9 Link to comment
wonderwall December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 My biggest problem about the episode was though: WHY THE HELL DID RA'S START CARING ABOUT SARA ALL OF A SUDDEN!??!?! 12 Link to comment
ban1o December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 My biggest problem about the episode was though: WHY THE HELL DID RA'S START CARING ABOUT SARA ALL OF A SUDDEN!??!?! The writers changed the dialogue in the previouslies to work in the plot of Ra's actually caring about Sara. They just completely retconned him from episode 4. 2 Link to comment
Soulfire December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 Loved this moment. And I can never give SA enough kudos for playing it with such intensity. ALL THE FEELS. /end wax poetic. 13 Link to comment
SonofaBiscuit December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 Unfortunately, people who don't read comics probably don't know anything about Lazarus Pits. So, I can actually see how people will believe that Oliver is dead. That's seems like a risky move. 2 Link to comment
wonderwall December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 The writers changed the dialogue in the previouslies to work in the plot of Ra's actually caring about Sara. They just completely retconned him from episode 4. They KNEW they were coming to this point sooner or later so why didn't they just NOT make him say that in episode 4? That just baffles me tbqh. 3 Link to comment
calliope1975 December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 Thanks for the opinions on Ra's! For TV purposes, I hate living on the West Coast. I'll be lowering my expectations accordingly. Link to comment
apinknightmare December 11, 2014 Share December 11, 2014 Guys, Oliver knows two things like Felicity knows two things. I liked Oliver's two things best, but...you know. 7 Link to comment
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