Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[kili]

So did anyone else wonder if Regina's messenger crow was Maleficent's?

 

Wasn't Malificient's avian assistant a raven? Not that this show would care.

 

When Malificient comes back, I hope we don't loose all of the rationality that she had when we last saw her (in non-monster form). She was capable of loving and was reasonable enough to know that the dark curse was horrible/not worth the sacrifiice. Sure, she can be grumpy about what Rumple, Charming, Regina and Will did to her, but if she goes Zelena crazy, I don't want to see it.

[Jean]

Emma's centric is episode 5.

Lies. We're not using A&E's warped definition.

since the 403 flashbacks also features the introduction of Hans, definitely some meaningful Rumple/Anna interaction, and maybe Elsa

I'm liking all the Frozen people so I hope they do hog up all the airtime. Let's see if Hans measure up to the cartoon. It's so weird to hold up Disney cartoons as the measure of good writing and character compared to what we normally get.

[YaddaYadda]

Who stands to take over as ruler of Arendelle once Elsa and Anna are gone?

[kili]

Who stands to take over as ruler of Arendelle once Elsa and Anna are gone?

 

In the movie, when Elsa and Anna head off the the hills, Anna appoints her newly minted fiance Hans as leader (and the people accept that). When she returns seeking a TLK to save her life, he tells her that he intends to claim that they did get married and he will get to be the ruler after he arranges for Elsa to be killed (for killing her sister). Assuming he knows what he is talking about, there mustn't be any other reasonable heirs to the throne. People married to heirs to the throne don't get to be the ruler when their spouse dies unless they pull some kind of coup (as Regina did - she had no legitimage claim to Leopold's throne).

 

I wonder if another reason to postpone the wedding was so that Kristoff wasn't married to Anna and would not even have the claim to the throne that Hans seemed to think he had.  I'm going to assume that Hans ends up ruling Arendelle because why else does he show up holding an urn. How he ends up claiming that I do not know - but it does not look good for Kristoff (although, I have no doubt that he will survive because I don't see Disney letting them kill him or his little reindeer either).

[NotBothered]

I wonder if another reason to postpone the wedding was so that Kristoff wasn't married to Anna and would not even have the claim to the throne that Hans seemed to think he had.  I'm going to assume that Hans ends up ruling Arendelle because why else does he show up holding an urn. How he ends up claiming that I do not know - but it does not look good for Kristoff (although, I have no doubt that he will survive because I don't see Disney letting them kill him or his little reindeer either).

There is absolutely zero chance that Kristoff or Sven will come to any lasting harm during this.  I am also guessing that we won't see the wedding on Once because they want to show the wedding in an actual Frozen vehicle.  Because it would have been logical for Kristoff and Ann to be married before she set off so that he had some legal footing in Arrendale (even though they had no way of knowing that Anna would go missing and Elsa would be urned).  Kristoff wouldn't be king, but I could see him being reagent until Anna or Elsa was found or declared dead.

 

Do the people of Arrendale know that Hans was actually evil?  He was actually a pretty good ruler (aside from trying to kill both Anna and Elsa).  I could see the people there wanting him during a time of crisis, assuming they didn't know the whole story.  

 

This of course brings up larger issues related to the line of succession in Arrendale.  Is the throne through the father or the mother?  Would it actually revert to the Snow Queen if Elsa and Anna died?  In that case, I could see Hans being her pawn.

[retrograde]

So the deleted scene on GMA was not the one with Henry and Rumple. Is it possible Robert Carlyle got the context of that one wrong and it's actually from a future episode?

[kili]

This of course brings up larger issues related to the line of succession in Arrendale.  Is the throne through the father or the mother?  Would it actually revert to the Snow Queen if Elsa and Anna died?

 

If Elsa's dad is a King, that would normally mean that she inherits the throne from him. If it was from his mother, he would only be a Prince (marry a King and you get to be a Queen, but not the same kind of Queen that Elsa or Queen Elizabeth II is). I seem to recall that Elsa's dad was a King, but maybe I just assumed that. If the royal family dies out with Elsa and Anna, though, the Snow Queen can probably make a run for the kingdom. Certainly, there are dodgy cases of ruling families taking over (like the Tudors in England - King Henry VII not only defeated King Richard III to take the crown, he sealed his claim by marrying the daughter of King Edward IV who was King Richard III's brother (Richard became king after Edward even though Edward had sons - and that is an entirely another story)).

[Amerilla]

Is it possible Robert Carlyle got the context of that one wrong and it's actually from a future episode?

Possibly, although I think he was taking about having just filmed it when he was at SDCC, when they had only filmed the first couple episodes. And he described the scene in such detail that it didn't seem like he could have misconstrued the context.

Call me cynical, but until they want to do something plot-plot-plot driven with it, I suspect the showrunners aren't really going to want to waste time (in their view) exploring a Henry-Gold relationship until they absolutely have to. "Action" trumps character development every time. So I can see that as being the type of scene they delete due to time constraints, and we're lucky if they add it back as a bonus on the Blu Ray next year.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Amerilla

[InsertWordHere]

I think this episode was definitely filmed before/during Comic Con as Snow was wearing the outfit from White Out when she punched out the Knave in the Skype call, but it's possible they had filmed some of ep 3 at that point as well.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm surprised they revealed the Snow Queen so early. I was expecting a scene with the Knave at the end of 4x02. I'm not sure how they're going to introduce him without it being totally random. I'm guessing 4x03's flashback will be Anna's encounter with Rumple, then somehow Hans gets into the picture. Is it possible Rumple is working with Hans?

[Bluerang1]

I wonder how Bo Peep and the Snow Queen got to Storybrooke and haven't done anything with their powers. I assume that if they only came with the second curse then Zelena must have overshadowed them. However if they've been here since the beginning, why not do anything? I guess they only got their powers in Season 2 when magic returned, but then they've had time from that.

[daxx]

Since David knew where to find her, I assume Bo Peep was there from the first curse. I believe the ice cream shop is new with the second curse so Snow Queen is newer to town.

[stealinghome]

Could it be? They're really skipping the Regina centric flashback?

We can only hope! But seriously, 4x01 was so heavy on Regina in the present that I'm tempted to call it a Regina episode on principle. So, you know, in my mind, we've already gotten the Regina-centric for the half-season. (I can dream, right?) Maybe they finally got the memo that showing Regina murdering villages=bad?

 

It's very contrived by strangely I don't mind if Anna does a tour of EF characters while trying to find the Snow Queen, it gives the fairybacks a theme which is something they've lacked since season 1.

PREACH! This is something they should've done last year, with the Missing Year, and I'm glad to see they're finally doing it. The fairybacks are always my favorite part of the show, but are 1000% better when they form a coherent story.

[pezgirl7]

I don't think Bo Peep has any powers. She just has a staff that she can "brand" people with, which lets her find them. Without having any henchman to do her dirty work, it's a bit useless.

[RadioGirl27]

First look at Elizabeth Mitchell, from EW.

 

I love that white dress so much.

[Serena]

Press release. Hook is definitely the who blackmails Rumple. Also, no Regina flashback!

It seems like Rumple giving back the dagger to Belle didn't last long. Like not even half an episode? He definitely kept it after getting it back for hat shenanigans.

 

 

 

Rocky Road” – When an icy spell is cast on Marian, which will ultimately freeze her heart and kill her, the Storybrooke residents place the blame on Elsa. But unbeknownst to anyone, a mysterious woman who runs the town’s ice cream parlor has the same powers as Elsa and is trying to frame her. Emma and David find former Merry Men member Will Scarlet rummaging through Robin Hood’s tent, Regina teams up with Henry to try and discover who the author of the fairy tale book is, Mary Margaret is having trouble balancing her duties as leader of Storybrooke and mother to young Prince Neal, and Hook begins to suspect that Mr. Gold is still in control of the dagger that calls upon him to be the Dark One. Meanwhile, in Arendelle of the past, Elsa and Kristoff set off to stop Hans from attempting to take control of the kingdom, on “Once Upon a Time,” SUNDAY, OCTOBER 12 (8:00-9:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

“Once Upon a Time” stars Ginnifer Goodwin as Snow White/Mary Margaret, Jennifer Morrison as Emma Swan, Lana Parrilla as the Evil Queen/Regina, Josh Dallas as Prince Charming/David Nolan, Emilie de Ravin as Belle, Colin O’Donoghue as Hook, Jared S. Gilmore as Henry, Michael Socha as Will Scarlet and Robert Carlyle as Rumplestiltskin/Mr. Gold.

Guest starring are Lee Arenberg as Leroy/Grumpy, Raphael Sbarge as Archie Hopper/Jiminy Cricket, Beverley Elliott as Granny, Sean Maguire as Robin Hood, Georgina Haig as Elsa, Scott Michael Foster as Kristoff, Raphael Alejandro as Roland, Christie Laing as Maid Marian, Charles Raahul Singh as General, Tyler Jacob Moore as Hans, Nils Hognestad as Franz, Marcus Rosner as Jurgen and Elizabeth Mitchell as Snow Queen.

”Rocky Road” was written by David H. Goodman & Jerome Schwartz and directed by Morgan Beggs.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Serena

[retrograde]

Since David knew where to find her, I assume Bo Peep was there from the first curse. I believe the ice cream shop is new with the second curse so Snow Queen is newer to town.

I don't think we know that. I mean we know that the set is new, but I haven't seen anything yet that indicates the characters believe the store is new.

[Cardie]

I'm thinking that Henry may become the Sorcerer's Apprentice and that's the plot reason for him having scenes with Gold at the shop.

[Curio]

Press release. Hook is definitely the who blackmails Rumple.

So I'm 99.99% sure now that Rumple will be the one who'll give Hook his hand back as leverage to stay quiet. Maybe there's a caveat that if Hook tells Belle, his hook comes back - which would explain why he randomly has his hook again so soon (I figured they'd save that one for the finale...) and why Belle and Rumple hit a rough patch near the end.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Curio

[Dirtybubble]

First look at Elizabeth Mitchell, from EW.

 

I love that white dress so much.

 

That looks good.  This does not http://tomandlorenzo.com/2014/10/elizabeth-mitchell-on-the-set-of-once-upon-a-time/ Is one dress for the flashbacks and one for present day Storybrooke?

[Serena]

That was one of my first guesses. Hook gets hand back in exchange for silence, but then after a while can't keep his mouth shuts and blabs to Belle, so Rumple takes back his hand. However, once Rumbelle are (eventually) together again, it would make no sense for Belle not to insist Gold give the hand back.

[MaiLuna]

Stills from episode 3:

 

http://abcmedianet.com/web/showpage/showpage.aspx?global_id=003310&type=asset&typecode=ph

 

The full versions should be out soon.

[stealinghome]

Is one dress for the flashbacks and one for present day Storybrooke?

It almost looks to me like the present-day dress is supposed to be a "lesser" version of the fairyback dress--like it represents that she was exiled or something. But yeah, ironically the Storybrooke dress is MUCH better.

[Curio]

However, once Rumbelle are (eventually) together again, it would make no sense for Belle not to insist Gold give the hand back.

Well, she did just stand idly by while Charming and Hook asked Rumple for help last episode...

[Mari]

That was one of my first guesses. Hook gets hand back in exchange for silence, but then after a while can't keep his mouth shuts and blabs to Belle, so Rumple takes back his hand. However, once Rumbelle are (eventually) together again, it would make no sense for Belle not to insist Gold give the hand back.

I don't know . . . Belle tends to hold grudges against people that aren't Rumple, and she has plenty of reason to not like Hook.  Between that and her inclination to pretty much ignore anything Gold does that isn't to her or she doesn't have to directly clean up? 

 

It's totally in character for her to not notice or care that Hook's hand is back in its jar on the shelf she dusts.

 

Edited because I do know how to use apostrophes.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Mari

[YaddaYadda]

So I'm 99.99% sure now that Rumple will be the one who'll give Hook his hand back as leverage to stay quiet. Maybe there's a caveat that if Hook tells Belle, his hook comes back - which would explain why he randomly has his hook again so soon (I figured they'd save that one for the finale...) and why Belle and Rumple hit a rough patch near the end.

 

She'll probably call Hook a liar before she tells him he has a dark, disgusting heart and then she'll start to sing Rumple's praises and how his heart is the awesomest awesome that ever awesomed.

Edited October 6, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[Curio]

In those 4.03 episode stills, it looks like Hook is trying to help Elsa learn how to control her powers with a backwoods practice session... but can anyone tell what object he's holding in his hand?

 

It seems like that's where Charming and Emma find Will (since they don't have a gun pulled on him in the shop), but I can't tell how that fits in the Hook/Elsa and Hook's "I should have listened to you" at the end of the episode.

I could see Hook being tasked with babysitting Elsa and making sure she just chills out somewhere safe (pun most definitely intended), but ends up getting bored and decides to do something productive with their time instead (like practicing controlling her magic in the woods). So instead of just listening to Emma and hiding out with Elsa for the day, he puts both of them in danger because they end up in a confrontation with the Snow Queen in the woods. Thus the "I should have listened to you." That's my best guess. Edited October 6, 2014 by Curio

[NotBothered]

In those 4.03 episode stills, it looks like Hook is trying to help Elsa learn how to control her powers with a backwoods practice session... but can anyone tell what object he's holding in his hand?

It looks like some sort of fairy dust?  I hadn't put together the controlling powers, but the X in the tree makes more sense now.

Do they all meet in the woods?  It seems like that's where Charming and Emma find Will (since they don't have a gun pulled on him in the shop), but I can't tell how that fits in the Hook/Elsa and Hook's "I should have listened to you" at the end of the episode.

[Artsda]

Full size.

 

http://www.seat42f.com/once-upon-a-time-season-4-episode-3-photos-rocky-road.html

[Serena]

I don't know . . . Belle tends to hold grudges against people that aren't Rumple, and she has plenty of reason to not like Hook.  Between that and her inclination to pretty much ignore anything Gold does that isn't to her or she doesn't have to directly clean up? 

 

It's totally in character for her to not notice or care that Hook's hand is back in its jar on the shelf she dusts.

Yeah, but in this case, Hook would be giving up his hand so she'd know she was being deceived, so... oh, who am I kidding. She's the worst.

[YaddaYadda]

Jeebus!  Mary Margaret's skirt matches those curtains.  Honestly, why?  They do realize there are some really nice clothes for pregnant women and for post-pregnancy as well.

 

I don't even mind that Hook is out and about in the woods with Elsa.  He's not exactly the type to just sit around.

[Mari]

That's a pretty big group in the mayor's office.  I wonder if that's before or after Marian's frozen heart?

 

Also, what in the world was Regina wearing?  It looked like a t-shirt with a vest over the top?  Has Regina ever worn a t-shirt on the show before?

[stealinghome]

Also, what in the world was Regina wearing?  It looked like a t-shirt with a vest over the top?  Has Regina ever worn a t-shirt on the show before?

Maybe this is another way they're communicating her MASSIVE LIFE-ENDING ANGST? Because if so...it would be kinda hilarious!

[NotBothered]

Also, what in the world was Regina wearing?  It looked like a t-shirt with a vest over the top?  Has Regina ever worn a t-shirt on the show before?

I expect that her is "wallowing post-breakup outfit."  I think it humanizes her more than anything the writers have done, ever.  She also just quit her job, so there's no need for power suits anymore.  

 

 

Jeebus!  Mary Margaret's skirt matches those curtains.  Honestly, why?

They have really struggled to dress her since the pregnancy, but Mary Margaret has always been twee.  It honestly doesn't bother me that much.  And with a different shirt (and on a different set), I honestly don't mind the skirt.  

 

I am weirdly curious about that pamphlet Robin is carrying.  What mayoral initiative is MM kicking off?

Edited October 6, 2014 by NotBothered

[KAOS Agent]

So now in addition to giving Regina all of Emma's storylines, they're giving her Emma's wardrobe too? Also, who is the random guy sitting next to Regina in the mayor's office?

[Jean]

 

what object he's holding in his hand?

It looks like one of Rumple's potion bottle. They stole it from him? I think Elsa and Hook are trying to "lure" the person who framed Elsa out of hiding.

 

So Emma and Charming find a strange guy looting Hood's camp and they take him on their investigation?

[KingOfHearts]

How can Hook suspect Rumple is still in control of the dagger if he gave it back to Belle in 4x01?

I'm guessing everyone is in the mayor's office to celebrate Snow's new position.

Edited October 6, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

How can Hook suspect Rumple is still in control of the dagger if he gave it back to Belle in 4x01?

I think he took it back again because at the end of the episode, he waved a dagger over the thingy that then produced the sorcerer's hat. I don't think the fake dagger would have done magic like that. It's possible that he then put it back in her purse after revealing the hat, but that may have been the reason for the extended bit of him sitting fully dressed on the edge of the bed while she slept. He must have been wrestling with whether or not to take the dagger back.

 

As for Regina's t-shirt, shouldn't she be in the baggy beige or grey sweater of gloom by now -- you know, the chosen wear of all depressed women on TV? I mean, if she's quitting her job and ditching her kid so she can mope, she should be wearing the proper attire for it.

[YaddaYadda]

He gave her the dagger than took it back to open that device with the hat.  We don't know if he gave it back.

[RadioGirl27]

I think Hook and Elsa go on a mission without Emma knowing about it, and that's why she is mad at him later. On a shallow note, I just  hope they don't cut the make up kiss.

But, what I really want to know is what is going on in that scene with Elsa, Kristoff, Hans and the Snow Queen. Maybe is the moment when Elsa is urned?

Edited October 6, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[NotBothered]

This batch of promo pictures is interesting.

 

It does look like the Snow Queen and Hans were in league with one another.  And was Elsa lying when she said she'd never met anyone else with her powers, or did she not know when she was urned? 

 

ETA: Or was the snow queen in the urn?  I can't tell if Hans gives it to Elsa, or Elsa gives it to Hans.  Everyone certainly seems to be looking at some special effect in the shot where Hans has the urn open.  It could either be releasing the Snow Queen, or sucking Elsa in.

Edited October 6, 2014 by NotBothered

[patchwork]

It looks to me like the Snow Queen was in the urn and Elsa somehow releases her. It wont surprise me if Hans later uses it to trap Elsa and gives her to Rumple in exchange for land, riches, whatever.

 

I'm disappointed that Marian is still in her prisoner garb, a sign that she isn't long for this world? 

[Rumsy4]

It looks to me like the Snow Queen was in the urn and Elsa somehow releases her. It wont surprise me if Hans later uses it to trap Elsa and gives her to Rumple in exchange for land, riches, whatever.

 

I'm disappointed that Marian is still in her prisoner garb, a sign that she isn't long for this world? 

 

Yeah. Marian's still wearing the potato sack. She's definitely going to die in it. 

 

Good theory on the Urning. 

Edited October 6, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Souris]

That's a pretty big group in the mayor's office.  I wonder if that's before or after Marian's frozen heart?

 

Before. Marian, Roland and Robin are there, too. They're shown in a different photo.

[elle]

I'm disappointed that Marian is still in her prisoner garb, a sign that she isn't long for this world? 

If it is, then things do not bode well for Elsa in her blue gown either.

[ShadowFacts]

Marian and Robin actually look fairly happy in the mayor's office. 

[retrograde]

I think those might be BTS shots. Everyone seems to have their scripts.

[KingOfHearts]

 

 

Full size.

http://www.seat42f.c...rocky-road.html

Why the heck are Regina and Henry in different clothes? 

I'm not a fan of the whole "Elsa's being framed!" plot because inevitably the characters are going to look naive in some fashion. If Marian dies, I can imagine Robin running to Regina to tell her the "good news" then she tells him she doesn't want him any more.

[MaiLuna]

Quote

 

And was Elsa lying when she said she'd never met anyone else with her powers, or did she not know when she was urned?

She can't remember. In the CTV promo she tells Rumple she lost some of her memories.

[sharky]

I wonder if Hook realizes something is messed up when Henry goes to work for Gold. Perhaps the apprentice is really Henry and Gold gives Hook the hand in order to control Hook. That would probably explain why Hook is so eager to cut it off as a way to be released so he can tell Emma what's going on.