Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Camera One]

9 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the writers thought giving Rapunzel a frying pan and having WHook climb the tower was enough to make it a Tangled parallel/shout-out/rip-off. 

This is when they add their very own creative interpretation that Rapunzel is a kickass female warrior trying to get her kingdom back by becoming a Resistance Leader and tempted to seek revenge by committing murder.  Oh no, is that done already?

Edited November 15, 2017 by Camera One

[cappoe]

58 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

There is a difference between love and true love in the OUAT verse. Even if he had temporarily fallen in love with Rapunzel, clearly it didn't last. Only True Love could break his curse. Which is why he was looking for Emma. It's not like Hook Prime kept himself chaste until he met Emma. And he was ready to give up his revenge for Baelfire. Emma was not the first person to awaken a desire for redemption in him.

Again you are completely ignoring what Wish Hook told Real Hook. I know it's not TL between Wish Hook and anybody/baby Mama. That's not what Wish Hook said. 

Wish Hook said "I never thought a Captain Hook could find love. And then in another realm I found out....you had".  He never said true love, he just said found love. Which means he did not love anyone post Milah. So you're ignoring that very clear statement. He didn't fall in love with Rapunzel even temporarily or anybody for that matter, according to what he said. He didn't love anyone and he didn't think a Captain Hook could find love until he found out Real Hook did with Emma. That's why he tried to find her.

What he fell in love with and what made him steer from his revenge was his daughter. 

Quote

Eddy also said "never say never" in another interview. It's not like A&E haven't changed their minds before or even straight up lied.

The "never say never" was in response to both Regina and Hook. And Eddy and Adam said specifically that neither Regina nor Hook would get any kind of LI in 7A which is where we're still on.

And with the fact the show is very likely getting cancelled I highly doubt they're gonna put this version of Hook with anyone. They've seen the reaction it caused already, they're not dumb.

Edited November 15, 2017 by cappoe

[darkestboy]

On 11/14/2017 at 4:51 AM, KingOfHearts said:

I'm going to be that person - the male representation this season sucks.

I'm going to second this one. I know we're getting Nick in a few episodes time but would it kill them to add another guy or two in the mix?

[Noneofyourbusiness]

With Henry, Hook, Rumple and eventually Nick and Naveen, there are enough guys on the show for me. Given how many shows skew the other way, it's refreshing. Besides, the source material is fairytales, where the majority of the protagonists and antagonists *are* female.

[RadioGirl27]

On 14/11/2017 at 7:37 PM, Rumsy4 said:

Tbh, I've already mentally detached WHook from Hook. But I don't get why he couldn't have felt love for his baby mama, if that's who Rapunzel is. Nobody's saying Hook found True Love with Alice's mother. After all, even Emma loved Walsh in the missing year, even if he turned out to be a fraud. I guess I'm confused why people think WHook loving someone taints CS in any way.

Yeah, this "Wish Hook has to spend all his life alone and a celibate because every version of Hook only loves Emma" is really absurd, but it shows the little respect and consideration a part of the CS fandom has always had for Hook as an individual character. This is the same people whoconstantly erase Milah and her importance in his life or makes her the villan in fan fics. 

[Shanna Marie]

I'm not putting too much stock into parsing the precise wording of WHook's speech to Hook Prime and figuring out how it's going to affect what will play out in this season or what it means for WHook's past because I'm not sure the writers even knew exactly what they meant. The whole thing came across as a handwave to justify Old Hook de-aging himself to pass as Hook Prime so they could swap out the characters going forward. He had to have some reason to be de-aged so they could keep him young and pretty, and switching places was a good reason for that, and then there needed to be a reason to switch places, so we got True Love blah blah curse blah blah Emma, oh well, never mind. I would hope this guy isn't doomed to a life of loneliness because he's from a universe where Emma was an infant and small child when he was at the age when Hook Prime met adult Emma. It would be creepy for him to have been in love with his universe's Emma, and our Emma is already married to our Hook, so it would be weird and wrong for him to fall in love with Emma. Emma isn't an option for this Hook.

Maybe it would make people feel better if we got the occasional glimpse of Storybrooke Hook. We can't show him with Emma, but we can show him at the sheriff's office, talking on the phone or radio to Emma, show him making breakfast and calling upstairs to Emma that it's ready, show him with the kid (if it's been born, depending on the timeline), so we're reassured that real Hook is with Emma and this is another person we're watching elsewhere.

12 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Eddy also said "never say never" in another interview. It's not like A&E haven't changed their minds before or even straight up lied.

Like when they said the timeline and reasons for the different aging would be clear in the second episode, and that episode actually made it fuzzier because there was no definitive reaction to Henry's age -- it wasn't obvious that him being that age was either expected (though still a surprise if they hadn't seen him since he was a teenager) because the appropriate amount of time had passed or a real shock because only a little time had gone by for them. The only thing the second episode cleared up was why Old Wish Hook now looks young, not why Henry has aged so much without his parents changing at all.

[cappoe]

Well I'd say it was clear. Time moves differently in the realm they're at then in SB. It's like the squid ink or memory potion. It's a lazy and cheap way for them to be able to explain how such and such aged up and crap. It's lame and just makes the season more and more convoluted.

[Camera One]

18 hours ago, cappoe said:

Wish Hook said "I never thought a Captain Hook could find love. And then in another realm I found out....you had".  He never said true love, he just said found love. Which means he did not love anyone post Milah.

I suppose he could have meant that he couldn't find love that he could hold on to, or love which could be freely reciprocated.  These Writers are known for being imprecise with their dialogue, or worse yet, completely ignoring their own dialogue.  I don't trust them as far as I can throw them.  So I'm bracing myself for any possibility.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

These Writers are known for being imprecise with their dialogue, or worse yet, completely ignoring their own dialogue.  I don't trust them as far as I can throw them.  So I'm bracing myself for any possibility.

Plus, it's the freaking Wish Realm. Everything there is completely arbitrary and nothing has to make sense. (Since, you know, its history didn't actually happen.)

Edited November 16, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

One huge change in the Wish Realm was Neal coming to the Enchanted Forest, meeting Emma, etc., all without the Curse ever being enacted.  A future flashback could potentially show an alternate path by which Wish Hook gave up his revenge, since the circumstances would have been different if Hook saw Baelfire again... perhaps he was the one who ensured Rumple would be imprisoned.  But then he let himself go, not knowing what to do without the revenge and failing at finding love.  This is the type of thing which we need to see to develop Whook, especially if he's meant to be different from Original Recipe Hook.  I wonder if this upcoming episode will flesh him out a bit more.

[jhlipton]

If a character on this show (TSTW) says "A always equals B", I totally expect them to say "A never equals B", possibly by then next episode (and sometimes in the same episode).  "Magic has consequences", amirite.

In short, regardless of what Whook has said about love, you can't treat it as irreversible fact because that's not how this show works.

[Camera One]

The promo lists "a trip to Wonderland".  Are Henry and Cinderella going to get an adventure together in Wonderland?  If so, you'd think they would have included a quick shot of that, but I didn't see it, unless Wonderland looks like a forest now.  I'm not looking forward to it at all, but it's about time we actually saw Henry and Cinderella falling in love.  So far, it seems rather one-way.  

[Rumsy4]

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

This is the type of thing which we need to see to develop Whook, especially if he's meant to be different from Original Recipe Hook.  I wonder if this upcoming episode will flesh him out a bit more.

They have done nothing to develop WHook and differentiate him from Hook Prime after the second episode. The centric format (as written in this Show) precludes any of the non-centric characters from having any development. 

5 hours ago, Camera One said:

The promo lists "a trip to Wonderland".  Are Henry and Cinderella going to get an adventure together in Wonderland?

And is this "alternate" Wonderland? 

[Camera One]

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

And is this "alternate" Wonderland? 

Oh boy, I didn't even think about *that*... realm hopping is sure confusing.  "Darn it... just wasted a magic bean.  I didn't mean to go to THIS Wonderland... I meant to go to Wonderland #5983!"

[Noneofyourbusiness]

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

The promo lists "a trip to Wonderland".  Are Henry and Cinderella going to get an adventure together in Wonderland?  If so, you'd think they would have included a quick shot of that, but I didn't see it, unless Wonderland looks like a forest now.  I'm not looking forward to it at all, but it's about time we actually saw Henry and Cinderella falling in love.  So far, it seems rather one-way.  

It was disappointing sometimes how similar the forests and villages in Once Upon a Time in Wonderland were to the Enchanted Forest.

[Mitch]

9 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

It was disappointing sometimes how similar the forests and villages in Once Upon a Time in Wonderland were to the Enchanted Forest.

That was always so schlocky.. I never knew why they even filmed in real forests for the Fairybacks...they should have all been freaked out looking CGI sets that looked surreal and a counterpoint to solid "real" Storybrooke. Everything should have looked "off" like twisted trees and weird flowers, etc. It never looked right that you would step out of the EQ's castle into a real forest.Plus the budget would have made them use the Fairybacks less and only for important stuff.

9 hours ago, Camera One said:

Oh boy, I didn't even think about *that*... realm hopping is sure confusing.  "Darn it... just wasted a magic bean.  I didn't mean to go to THIS Wonderland... I meant to go to Wonderland #5983!"

They should have just skipped more fairytales...they have done them to death and its not only boring but confusing..how do these worlds exist and why did realm hopping Rump and Regina never wander into one? Since they introduced it they should have focused on other literature..I would rather see a neighborhood full of Gothic world, with Dr. Whale and his monster and Dracula and the Wolf Man, they could have saved Dr. Jekyl for this years big bad instead of wasting him.. Henry could have been in love with Jane Eyre (though there is no way he could have competed with Rochester who I wanted to bang like a screen door...uh, sorry...) or Catherine from Wuthering Heights...(ha, ha, boring douche Henry competing with Heathcliff!!)

I know Disney wants to pump the well but how close is this Cinders to theirs? I also know that the viewing public unfortuately would probably not know other characters. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

10 minutes ago, Mitch said:

That was always so schlocky.. I never knew why they even filmed in real forests for the Fairybacks...they should have all been freaked out looking CGI sets that looked surreal and a counterpoint to solid "real" Storybrooke. Everything should have looked "off" like twisted trees and weird flowers, etc. It never looked right that you would step out of the EQ's castle into a real forest.Plus the budget would have made them use the Fairybacks less and only for important stuff.

I think real forests looked fine for the Enchanted Forest for the most part, but not for Wonderland.

6 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

And is this "alternate" Wonderland? 

I'm assuming it will be, since it's "alternate" Alice. The New Enchanted Forest is supposedly part of another Author's book, so I think the Enchanted Forest, Wonderland, Oz, Neverland, etc. we've already seen are all in one book. A&E said an alternate Peter Pan was possible, which would require an alternate Neverland.

[Shanna Marie]

34 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

A&E said an alternate Peter Pan was possible, which would require an alternate Neverland.

And then there's got to be a Wish Neverland for Wish Hook, if he and Bae were still alive a century after their time in the Wishverse. This whole story universe is getting very complicated.

Hey, maybe Alice is from Wish Wonderland. Or, as she put it, she visited Wish Wonderland and now that's all anyone thinks about her.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

And then there's got to be a Wish Neverland for Wish Hook, if he and Bae were still alive a century after their time in the Wishverse. This whole story universe is getting very complicated.

"There's infinite realms, infinite possibilities."

So if, as it looks, these flashbacks in "Eloise Gardener" are going to show Wish Hook being sent by Wish Evil Queen to the tower in the past of the New Enchanted Forest (the same tower we saw in a ruined state in "Wake Up Call"), where he meets New Rapunzel, then the Wish Realm already existed before Serum Evil Queen made her wish. So Regina really killed King Charming and Queen Snow. And Emma hi-jacked Princess Emma's body. And Sir Henry was named Henry why?

 

Oh my God, I just realized there's three of her.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Noneofyourbusiness

[cappoe]

Yeah I'm not watching Fridays episode. There's an "S" warning which means there's an implied sex/sex scene in the 2 hr episode. Wish Hook and Rapunzel get a sex scene/implied sex scene but Emma and Killian don't. That makes so much sense. 

God I can't wait for this show to get cancelled.

[KAOS Agent]

I wonder if these writers know that there's a new show debuting next month called "Knightfall". It's about the Knights Templar and while I know nothing about the show itself, chances are that it will be better than this Once episode.

[Watt]

1 hour ago, cappoe said:

Yeah I'm not watching Fridays episode. There's an "S" warning which means there's an implied sex/sex scene in the 2 hr episode. Wish Hook and Rapunzel get a sex scene/implied sex scene but Emma and Killian don't. That makes so much sense. 

God I can't wait for this show to get cancelled.

This stresses me out.

[formerlyfreedom]

Just a reminder; please avail yourself of the 'ignore' option for posters that you just want to ignore - that's what it's for! We're letting lots go in here at this point, including lots of NOT SPOILERS, and we really don't want to crack down, but if we need to, we will.

Thank you!

[KingOfHearts]

Tiana and Jacinda's drug-infested food truck is being called "Rollin' Bayou". That sounds particularly unappetizing. 

[Camera One]

I'm laughing at that spoiler pic of Tiana and Jacinda's food truck.

Are we going to get an episode where they cut a window out from the side of the original delivery truck they had?

[oncebluethrone]

The S warning doesn't bother me. Seeing CS in bed or have a cut-away scene was never something I craved, although it would have been nice if we got something other than the pancakes scene. And the warning might not even be for Wish Hook and Rapunzel, it could be for Henry and Ella. What happens with Wish Hook and Rapunzel is in no way disrespectful to CS nor does it reduce their love story. I think that Wish Hook is a completely different character and I would be very much okay with him getting a love interest or having an implied sex scene (there are technically no actual sex scenes on the show, only implied ones).

[Rumsy4]

2 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Tiana and Jacinda's drug-infested food truck is being called "Rollin' Bayou". That sounds particularly unappetizing. 

It sounds like medication for gastric problems. 

[Camera One]

I just found the website Jacinda and Sabine used to build their own food truck from scratch.  One of the steps was how to cut openings for a serving window, LOL.  It does take 3 months, but those ladies are so kickass they could probably do it in 3 days.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

2 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

It sounds like medication for gastric problems. 

I'm pretty sure it's going to give people gastric problems.

Quote

r at the very least a drug-high. 

"Rollin' Meth Lab" would probably be a more appropriate name.

Edited November 17, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Just now, KingOfHearts said:

I'm pretty sure it's going to give people gastric problems

Or at the very least a drug-high. 

1 minute ago, Camera One said:

It does take 3 months, but those ladies are so kickass they could probably do it in 3 days.

And I'm sure did it using the tools they borrowed from Roni. 

[Camera One]

I just read that useful website above, and I can imagine Jacinda and Sabine's conversation as they read it together.

Quote

Yes, you can retrofit and modify a truck by yourself. But do you really want to? If you’re not experienced with mechanics or how motorized vehicles work this option may not be for you. If you have no experience with doing electrical work, this isn’t for you either.

JACINDA: "I can fix a motorcycle, so I can do this."

Quote

Also, if you don’t have access to tools needed those can become expensive too.

SABINE: Are you sure those "expensive" tools are available at Roni's?

Quote

The other negative is that it will take you a lot more time to do it yourself than hire it out. Take our previous interview with The Boiler Monkey for example. We recommend listening to the full-interview if you plan to build a vehicle yourself. The Boiler Monkey enlisted help from friends sorting out the complex electrical wiring and borrowed tools from neighbors.

JACINDA: Ha!  So you CAN borrow tools from neighbors!  And I can get help from my "friend" Henry.  As an Author, he can do the complex electrical wiring after I give him the cold shoulder from the Instagram post.

Quote

The Boiler Monkey also took a full 3 months to convert their bus into the food-service machine they dreamed of. They did not have full-time jobs at the time either. If you’re serious about this, figure out if you have enough time to dedicate yourself to completing the project.

JACINDA: "I don't have a full time job anymore."

Quote

Finally, you’re building a vehicle you plan to cook on. There’s a lot that can go wrong and no shortage of fire hazards.

JACINDA: I'm really good at fanning the flames.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

10 minutes ago, Camera One said:

JACINDA: "I can fix a motorcycle, so I can do this."

SABINE: Are you sure those "expensive" tools are available at Roni's?

JACINDA: Ha!  So you CAN borrow tools from neighbors!  And I can get help from my "friend" Henry.  As an Author, he can do the complex electrical wiring after I give him the cold shoulder from the Instagram post.

JACINDA: "I don't have a full time job anymore."

JACINDA: I'm really good at fanning the flames.

Nailed it. :-D

[Mabinogia]

12 hours ago, oncebluethrone said:

I think that Wish Hook is a completely different character and I would be very much okay with him getting a love interest or having an implied sex scene (there are technically no actual sex scenes on the show, only implied ones).

If it means seeing Colin with less clothing on I don't care who else is in the scene. lol Of course, if it's Henry and Ella instead of Hook and anyone,  I may have to look away. UGH

Also, off topic but those kitties warm my cold, dead heart! 

[Mitch]

21 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

"There's infinite realms, infinite possibilities."

So if, as it looks, these flashbacks in "Eloise Gardener" are going to show Wish Hook being sent by Wish Evil Queen to the tower in the past of the New Enchanted Forest (the same tower we saw in a ruined state in "Wake Up Call"), where he meets New Rapunzel, then the Wish Realm already existed before Serum Evil Queen made her wish. So Regina really killed King Charming and Queen Snow. And Emma hi-jacked Princess Emma's body. And Sir Henry was named Henry why?

 

Oh my God, I just realized there's three of her.

AND in that one post you thought this out more then A & E and their stable of writers and producers have bothered to.

I always thought the original wish should have sent Emma to a real alternate world where things had turned out different (i.e. Snow and Charming rubbed two brain cells together and defeated and imprisoned or killed Regina..) and that Emma's spirit just inhabited WishEmma for a bit..(or more fun..Wishworld Emma is zapped to Storybrooke while Emma Prime is in WW) but that's not how it played out especially with Regina killing the witless duo. Have they ever mentioned that in interviews?

[daxx]

57 minutes ago, Mitch said:

Wishworld Emma is zapped to Storybrooke while Emma Prime is in WW) but that's not how it played out

Omg that would have been fantastic! But only if it was an Emma that was really raised by Snowing and not that simpering fool that we got.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, Mitch said:

Have they ever mentioned that in interviews?

I think only in the post-mortem right after, where they said she didn't kill real people. And said because it wasn't really an alternate timeline it didn't matter about Henry being somehow named Henry.

Which reminds me of how they claimed Henry's surname was still Mills when he was living with Emma for that year in Season 3, though it makes no sense.

[KingOfHearts]

Dang. Never thought I'd actually be happy to see Mr. Smee.

Edited November 17, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Rapunzel is totally Mophead. She is the witch.

Yeah--I loved seeing Smee too.

[RadioGirl27]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

Rapunzel is totally Mophead. She is the witch.

Yeah, absolutely. And, in the traditional A&E style, I guess we are going to get more consent problems.

[Rumsy4]

From the Sneak Peek, Colin is continuing to play Wish Hook differently from Hook Prime. This younger Wish Hook seems slightly more vulnerable than Hook Prime, and maybe even less savvy. The smile is different too. It's not the typical Hook smirk. Kudos to Colin! 

I donno how I feel about the fact that the flashback is all fake/implanted memories…

[Kktjones]

Yeah, mophead just tweeted a pic of her and Colin sitting on a messed up bed with a caption saying we're in for "some surprises" tonight. So I'm guessing Rapunzel is actually mophead under a glamour spell and she tricks Whook into sleeping with her. Major eyeroll...

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I donno how I feel about the fact that the flashback is all fake/implanted memories…

Do we know this for sure and that it's not being retconned that the Wish Realm always existed?

Isn't Mophead from a "distant realm"? If so, how could she be part of WHook's fake memories?

Edited November 17, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Just now, Rumsy4 said:

BTS pic from tonight's episode (X).

I guess this is confirmation? Or not...

1 minute ago, KingOfHearts said:

Do we know this for sure and that it's not being retconned that the Wish Realm always existed?

I don't see how they can retcon it. More likely never mention anything and prevaricate on Twitter.

[daxx]

1 minute ago, KingOfHearts said:

Do we know this for sure and that it's not being retconned that the Wish Realm always existed?

At Burbank Colin said the wish realm existed as long as wishes and Wish Hook was around as long as Hook.

Take it or leave it, that is how I heard it anyway. Jmo was confused by his statement for certain.

[cappoe]

This show has learned nothing. Nothing at all. Wish Hook is raped by the Witch. The Robin controversy wasn't enough of this show, they have to go ahead and show rape again. Oh but they're not gonna call it rape.

10 minutes ago, daxx said:

At Burbank Colin said the wish realm existed as long as wishes and Wish Hook was around as long as Hook.

Take it or leave it, that is how I heard it anyway. Jmo was confused by his statement for certain.

Everyone was confused. It was the dumbest thing I've ever heard. He should have just told the truth, the reason why they retconned the BS WR is cause JMO isn't doing S7 as a regular.

[CCTC]

They kind of retroconned the wish realm before the episode was even over when it was no big deal killing older Snowing, but 10 minutes later Regina fails to return to her son in the real world because of wish realm Robin who they then treat as a real person.

Good point someone brought out about Emma -- real Emma was there - they way it played out later there probably should be an actual wish realm Emma separate of real Emma.  They really did not bother to even try to make the wish realm make sense or deal with any of the inconsistencies.

Rapunzel looked young in the short clip of her.  It could have been just the way it was filmed, but it was mildly creepy seeing Hook ogle her when she looked so young and vulnerable.

[VoicePlaya]

35 minutes ago, CCTC said:

Rapunzel looked young in the short clip of her.  It could have been just the way it was filmed, but it was mildly creepy seeing Hook ogle her when she looked so young and vulnerable.

I thought she looked young too and that did make the clip a little creepy...

I feel like the more I hear them try to explain the Wish Realm, the more I hate it.

[cappoe]

If the Wish Hook rape is valid then Adam and Eddy need to be held accountable. In this social climate environment where Rape and sexual harassment leads to shows being cancelled or people being fired it cannot be glorified again. It needs to be said for what it is or they will be hearing from the fans. And they will lose viewers just like they lost many viewers when Robin was raped by Zelena.

[Camera One]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

I don't see how they can retcon it. More likely never mention anything and prevaricate on Twitter.

Yeah, most casual viewers would have forgotten how Wish Hook came to be.  So they would assume we would be watching real memories in the flashbacks.  I agree that they may not even mention that point.

[Camera One]

If you're not excited yet...

Quote

Adam Horowitz‏ @AdamHorowitzLA 10h10 hours ago

New #OnceUponATime tonight! Two hours! Lotsa stuff happens! Hope to see ya!