Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Watt]

More like Jen couldn't commit to more than one episode without having more details on what a revamped season would look like. Why would you contractually agree to like, five episodes, in a shortened season. Better to contract one (though I would have thought the SERIES finale a better episode to contract into) episode and then if she wants or they want or everyone wants, she's free to do more if her schedule allows. I'm honestly not sure Jen wants to do more long term TV shows. Between House and now Once, she seems to want to try some other creative outlets, like writing and directing. In any case, better for her career to only commit to one in case she does sign another long term contract elsewhere. When does pilot season start?

Im only irritated about Colin. I'm content with Jen wanting out but I honestly can't see how you can separate the two without being depressing/annoying/retconning. I kind of wish he'd just leave too and do one or two episodes with her. I'd love, like I said, to see him in something bigger, a show on Netflix or Starz or something. Put him on Outlander or GoT or something. Let's see how he can act.

Id watch a adult Henry reboot but I don't see how you fit everyone else in. Better to cancel it totally.

[cappoe]

Quote

More like Jen couldn't commit to more than one episode without having more details on what a revamped season would look like. Why would you contractually agree to like, five episodes, in a shortened season. Better to contract one (though I would have thought the SERIES finale a better episode to contract into) episode and then if she wants or they want or everyone wants, sh

The reason she can't commit yet to the series finale is cause it's so far away. She would have to make her schedule around that booking so far in advance. It's better to commit to soemthing recent and then see what the future holds.

You know? The premiere makes sense cause it'll be filmed in July and should it come to the fact this is the last season then I can see JMO returning ni September or October to wrap the series filming wise.

[ParadoxLost]

55 minutes ago, orza said:

I think the one-episode commitment is mostly about ABC wanting to keep their options open because the they haven't decided on the specifics of what is happening in the season opener episode yet. Having that contractual commitment from Morrison doesn't mean that the network has to use her. They can just pay her whatever was agreed upon and do something else.

I think everything that has been released has been true but has just omitted half the information.

Everything about this season points to them knowing early on that JMo wasn't coming back.

I'm leaning to the new kid being Captain Swan's and finding adult Henry because her mother is missing and maybe Hook is also under a curse.

I think the contract negotiation was never for S7 for JMo since the reboot set up casting came out first and they were doing the typical downplaying of a character to deemphasize their importance to the show before leaving.  I think they were just negotiating to try to secure her in a guest capacity to set up the reboot.

I totally believe the TVLine reports that Emma was a key part of the reboot.  I don't think that she was ever going to be participating in any real capacity.  Its centered around her absence.  So true, but misleading.

If they get a S7, I expect Emma to be the premeire flashback and they will likely get her to film the last five minutes of the series finale. Like how HIMYM filmed the kids early in the series for the finale before they grew up.  And that worked out great (sarcasm).

Edited May 10, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[kitticup]

Maybe all the heroes get to go to paradise type place and the Gillian's can't go until they do some major feat, like bring hope to all the lands, fotiing in with the two new cast.  

 

I think there is a problem.  I love Hook but he is way overpowered by both Rumple and Regina.  I don't want to watch him on the sidelines.

[Jul 68]

I just have a feeling that it's going to turn into AfterMASH or, worse yet, W*A*L*T*E*R.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I'm leaning to the new kid being Captain Swan's and finding adult Henry because her mother is missing and maybe Hook is also under a curse.

We know it's not CS's child because A&E said there would be no new spots on the family tree.

[ParadoxLost]

25 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

We know it's not CS's child because A&E said there would be no new spots on the family tree.

Because they have never lied.  I think that being able to claim they had to make adjustments for JMo's exit (even if its BS) puts everything back on the table.

[OnceUponAJen]

How about this.... they split Hook the same way they did the Evil Queen?  That way hero Killian goes with Emma and villain Hook stays with the reboot?

[Souris]

36 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

We know it's not CS's child because A&E said there would be no new spots on the family tree.

We also know she's not a CS kid because she's Hispanic!!

[clairetvfanatic]

1 minute ago, Souris said:

We also know she's not a CS kid because she's Hispanic!!

Yeah, the one thing this show has been pretty good at is casting.  There is no way she is their daughter.  Sadly.

[orza]

The Hook and Rumple story lines could play out entirely in the past. They both have hundreds of years of flashbacks we have not seen. It's possible and plausible that they had numerous run-ins during the time that Hook was making supply runs for Pan. They could also have story lines with characters from various times in the past.

I am looking forward to a possible season 7 that is not a continuation of the current show but a fresh start with new characters, and also gives these two characters a strong reboot that takes them in different directions than we have seen.

[Camera One]

Emma glamors herself as Tiger Lily, so the reboot would include by "Emma" and Hook, and of course, everyone's fav's Regina and Rumple.

[scenicbyway]

2 hours ago, orza said:

I think the one-episode commitment is mostly about ABC wanting to keep their options open because the they haven't decided on the specifics of what is happening in the season opener episode yet. Having that contractual commitment from Morrison doesn't mean that the network has to use her. They can just pay her whatever was agreed upon and do something else.

Totally agree with this.  Maybe they'll need Emma in the premiere, maybe not. I'd even lean towards not because she's said in multiple interviews she's only willing to come back for that one episode.  I can't imagine starting the season with her demise it would just be too depressing.

Colin's contracted for the season, but honestly they could go the way of the Will character and have Hook only appear in a couple of episodes vs the whole season.  Which is also depressing.

[KingOfHearts]

9 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Emma glamors herself as Tiger Lily, so the reboot would include by "Emma" and Hook, and of course, everyone's fav's Regina and Rumple.

Emma switches bodies with Regina to avoid her death.

Edited May 10, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

9 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Emma switches bodies with Regina to avoid her death.

Tsk tsk!  The show would not be the same without Regina.  

Maybe Emma returns in the Season 7 finale as Mufasa, talking to Adult Henry from the sky.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

35 minutes ago, clairetvfanatic said:

Yeah, the one thing this show has been pretty good at is casting.

*cough* Lily *cough*

So, TVLine: http://tvline.com/2017/05/09/arrow-season-5-spoilers-black-siren-returns/

Are we ever going to find out why Once Upon a Time‘s Black Fairy wants to kill Emma? She’s got Rumple back in her life. Why does she still need Emma dead? —Mary
“Just because Rumple is back in the Black Fairy’s life, that doesn’t mean a happy ending is guaranteed,” series co-creator Adam Horowitz notes. “Let’s face it — when darkness wants to prevail for all eternity, destroying light is usually on top of your to-do list.”

You have yet to explain why she would want to be an eternal darkness, damnit!

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Tsk tsk!  The show would not be the same without Regina.  

That's when you bring the Evil Queen back from the Wish Realm.

[Camera One]

7 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Are we ever going to find out why Once Upon a Time‘s Black Fairy wants to kill Emma? She’s got Rumple back in her life. Why does she still need Emma dead? —Mary
“Just because Rumple is back in the Black Fairy’s life, that doesn’t mean a happy ending is guaranteed,” series co-creator Adam Horowitz notes. “Let’s face it — when darkness wants to prevail for all eternity, destroying light is usually on top of your to-do list.”

Oh LOL, he topped himself with his latest non-answer.

[Kktjones]

8 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Are we ever going to find out why Once Upon a Time‘s Black Fairy wants to kill Emma? She’s got Rumple back in her life. Why does she still need Emma dead? —Mary
“Just because Rumple is back in the Black Fairy’s life, that doesn’t mean a happy ending is guaranteed,” series co-creator Adam Horowitz notes. “Let’s face it — when darkness wants to prevail for all eternity, destroying light is usually on top of your to-do list.”

So this latest non-answer has me wondering - if Emma had used the shears to cut away her savior-ness, would the Black Fairy still want to kill her? Is it her being the savior or that she has light magic or a combination? It is so contrived and makes no sense whatsoever...

[KAOS Agent]

He's basically saying, "Because reasons." It's such poor writing. Motivation is important.

[Camera One]

He says "darkness wants to prevail" as if The Black Fairy had no free will/choice.  How exactly does "destroying light" benefit her again?  What a bunch of nonsense.

[KAOS Agent]

In Season 10, we find out she was besties with Nimue and they regularly got together to have Snuff Out the Light parties.

Edited May 10, 2017 by KAOS Agent

[ParadoxLost]

2 hours ago, Souris said:

We also know she's not a CS kid because she's Hispanic!!

Adopted.  Just sayin'.

[RadioGirl27]

3 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

Colin's contracted for the season, but honestly they could go the way of the Will character and have Hook only appear in a couple of episodes vs the whole season.  Which is also depressing.

This. Until we have a clear idea of what that possible reboot is about everything is just speculation. We are consedering Hook one of the main characters for next season, but maybe he is not and he is just un a few episodes. 

We don't know if he is staying because he wants to (they made him a good offer) or because he has to (he is still under contract) and we don't know if A&E have a plan for him or if they are being forced to use him because ABC wants them to (in a he has a contract, he is popular, you use him kind of way). 

I just hope that whatever it is makes him happy.

[PixiePaws1]

Thet could do a bigger time jump and the little girl be Henry's kid..

[Camera One]

I doubt they're forced to use Hook.  They still enjoyed writing for him in 6B and he got some of the few good scenes in the latter half of this season.  Of course, Regina and Rumple are A&E's favorites, but they clearly like Hook too.  "Once Upon a Reforming Villain" indeed.

[Rumsy4]

This seriously sounds like the worst reboot ever. There's literally nothing left to "explore" about Regina's pity-party, Rumple's woobie-hood, or Hook's self-loathing. Because lbr, we'll get more of the same. 

The reboot should be centered around some secondary charatcers like Mulan and Red (who's Dorothy? shhh). Or bring back Captain Nemo. Have it be an adventure show. That way, they could bring back the main and other secondary charatcers in guest spots. 

[Camera One]

1 minute ago, Rumsy4 said:

This seriously sounds like the worst reboot ever. There's literally nothing left to "explore" about Regina's pity-party, Rumple's woobie-hood, or Hook's self-loathing. Because lbr, we'll get more of the same. 

Definitely.  What further stories can they possibly believe they could tell with Rumple and Regina (especially Rumple)?  If Carlyle is back for Season 7, it will be such a joke.

[RedKeep]

13 hours ago, SiobhanJW said:

Maybe they are doing an "American Horror Story" type thing where the remaining regulars will all be playing different characters in the reboot?

This is actually a great idea, which likely means it won't happen. But an ability to stretch their acting muscles like that would be one reason why I could see certain castmembers sticking around for the reboot.

[tennisgurl]

I just don't see myself being interested in any version of Once without Emma. Emma is the characters whos journey I started with, and she's the character I'm most invested in. Even when A & E stuck her in stupid boring, nonsensical plots, I still loved Emma and rooted for her to find her happy ending, so why would I watch a version of this show without her? That's not to say that I'm not invested in the other characters or the story (my love for Hook is never ending), but I signed up for Emma and her story, and without it, it might as well be another show.

[Souris]

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

I doubt they're forced to use Hook.  They still enjoyed writing for him in 6B and he got some of the few good scenes in the latter half of this season.  Of course, Regina and Rumple are A&E's favorites, but they clearly like Hook too.  "Once Upon a Reforming Villain" indeed.

Plus they know that Hook/Colin is one of the very few draws they still have left. They will use him prominently.

If the reboot isn't the Wish Realm, I'll actually be a bit surprised. They've set it up for exactly the actors they'll have available. It gets around the problem of destroying the happy endings for "our" characters. They won't be tied to any of the pesky history they've established (not that they care about that anyway). "Our" characters could still show up at any point because of realm hopping. It seems like the perfect set-up.

Which of course means they probably won't do it.

[Camera One]

It would be mildly amusing if they set the "reset" in the Wish Realm, considering the characters are "not real".  It would also be annoying to see Old Hook too much... he can't be the draw if he isn't dashing.  I suppose they could start the redemption all over again, which they would love.  But I doubt they want to write for Alt-Robin, nor would the actor come back.

[Curio]

1 minute ago, Camera One said:

It would also be annoying to see Old Hook too much... he can't be the draw if he isn't dashing. 

You'd be surprised. Richard Harrow, Freddy Kreuger, Barbossa... Characters don't have to be dashing to be a draw. Honestly, Colin would probably prefer to be a little less dashing in his next role since he sometimes seems to get annoyed whenever people bring up his good looks in interviews. As an actor, he's probably itching to play a part that doesn't automatically rely on his looks. I also have a feeling Colin would dial back some of the camp if he were forced to play the character for an entire season. I'd be interested in seeing the flashbacks that explain how Old Hook got to that point, so in flashbacks he could still be dashing.

[RadioGirl27]

26 minutes ago, Camera One said:

It would also be annoying to see Old Hook too much... he can't be the draw if he isn't dashing.

Yeah, if they are doing the Wish Realm, Old Hook needs a big make up and I'm not talking about his age or weigh, but about the fact that he was completely pathetic. The character doesn't work in the long run, no matter how good Colin is with comedy.

12 minutes ago, Curio said:

As an actor, he's probably itching to play a part that doesn't automatically rely on his looks.

My problem is not the looks, but the uselessness of the character. He doesn't work as a villan or as a hero, only as a comic relief.

And, really, a show about Imp Rumple, the Evil Queen and Old Hook (the three characters from the Wish Realm) and two characters no one knows would be canceled before November.

Edited May 10, 2017 by RadioGirl27

[Curio]

9 minutes ago, RadioGirl27 said:

My problem is not the looks, but the uselessness of the character. He doesn't work as a villan or as a hero, only as a comic relief.

Old Hook was also only in 30 seconds of the episode. It's hard to get a gauge on what kind of character he is beyond the surface level introduction. A lot of people thought Better Call Saul was going to be a flop too because Saul was just your basic "comic relief" guy on Breaking Bad, but when the writers were forced to flesh out his character, he showed a lot more three-dimensionality.

But don't worry, y'all. Since I'm campaigning for Old Hook next season, it means 99% it's not going to happen.

[Souris]

33 minutes ago, Camera One said:

It would be mildly amusing if they set the "reset" in the Wish Realm, considering the characters are "not real".  It would also be annoying to see Old Hook too much... he can't be the draw if he isn't dashing.  I suppose they could start the redemption all over again, which they would love.  But I doubt they want to write for Alt-Robin, nor would the actor come back.

They could easily magic him back to dashing. EQ: "Ugh, I can't stand to look at you like this." ::poof::

And the little girl is from a broken home. So they just have it so Wish!Robin ditched EQ and their daughter.

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, Souris said:

So they just have it so Wish!Robin ditched EQ and their daughter.

Or he died, and the EQ cast another Dark Curse to create Wish!Storybrooke. :-p

Edited May 10, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Spartan Girl]

Seriously, I hope they won't go through with a season 7 at this point, because no good can come out of it.

And the fact that ABC might give it one more go despite the continuous decline in quality and ratings while cancelling a great show like The Muppets after only ONE season infuriates me.

[Mitch]

9 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

This seriously sounds like the worst reboot ever. There's literally nothing left to "explore" about Regina's pity-party, Rumple's woobie-hood, or Hook's self-loathing. Because lbr, we'll get more of the same. 

The reboot should be centered around some secondary charatcers like Mulan and Red (who's Dorothy? shhh). Or bring back Captain Nemo. Have it be an adventure show. That way, they could bring back the main and other secondary charatcers in guest spots. 

Hmmm, remember the fuss that a certain "family friendly..will anyone think of the children??" population raised about the little gay kiss..(despite the fact that more unfamily friendly things happen on each episode) I doubt we will see that but it would be cool to have some kick ass ladies who aren't interested in dashing pirates (hmm that would preserve the Emma/Hook relationship) .

The bad thing about people wanting the characters to go on adventures is that they just don't have the budget for it. Their CGI sucks now, can you imagine after the inevitable budget cuts happen what it will look like?

[RadioGirl27]

3 hours ago, Curio said:

But don't worry, y'all. Since I'm campaigning for Old Hook next season, it means 99% it's not going to happen.

Old Hook is the only version of Hook I actively dislike, so the chances for this happening are high ;-)

[Kktjones]

In one of Jen's exit interviews she mentioned that she told A&E about her decision before they wrote the finale. So are we thinking it's a coincidence that her character is isolated in a mental institution instead of off having fun, romantic adventures with her hot husband and parents in the EF? What better revenge than sticking her with Jared as her primary scene partner for two hours (no offense, he seems nice, but the acting is so very bad). Amiright? 

[superloislane]

6 hours ago, Curio said:

Honestly, Colin would probably prefer to be a little less dashing in his next role since he sometimes seems to get annoyed whenever people bring up his good looks in interviews.

I just read this and thought wow, I'd love to be annoyed by people saying how good looking I am all the time! 

[scenicbyway]

3 hours ago, Kktjones said:

In one of Jen's exit interviews she mentioned that she told A&E about her decision before they wrote the finale. So are we thinking it's a coincidence that her character is isolated in a mental institution instead of off having fun, romantic adventures with her hot husband and parents in the EF? What better revenge than sticking her with Jared as her primary scene partner for two hours (no offense, he seems nice, but the acting is so very bad). Amiright? 

Ha!

I'm still annoyed that they knew for 2 months that she was leaving and revealed it less than 12 hours after the happy wedding episode.  Total Buzzkill.

[scenicbyway]

Putting this in Spoilers since Emma leaving is probably a Spoiler...

I can't help but think we can see where in the storyline Jenn told the writers she was done and perhaps asked for time off?  Emma and Hook have been separated for most of the season and Emma's role was significantly decreased after the Wish Realm.  But it's more than that because the Wedding timeline is completely wonky.  

1. Hook proposes because Emma forces him to.

2. Very next episode Emma finds out he didn't tell her about him killing grandpa so she returns the ring.  Hook gets kidnapped by Gideon.

3.  Next two(?) episodes are Hook on his dumb Odyssey adventure.

4. Emma rescues him and he proposes again.

5. The morning after the proposal Snow shows up at their door wanting to plan and check out venues.  But they decide to put off the wedding until the BF is vanquished.

6. In the next episode the wedding has suddenly been moved up to "tomorrow."

7.  The next episode is the wedding despite the fact the past penultimate episodes have generally vanquished the villain dujour.  But this time they just don't care to fight her?!

8.  The finale splits everyone apart and Hook and Emma spend their first and last episode apart as husband and wife and apparently she has no memory of him.

So it looks like the writers made two changes to this season:

1.  Moved up the wedding (it would've made more sense as a season finale).

2.  Changed the standard order of vanquishing the villain in the penultimate episode to the finale.

[sharky]

I don't know if they moved up the wedding for Jen. It sounds like they started working on the musical episode in December and writing the finale in January. It feels like a musical episode was supposed to be the wedding -- why just do a musical without it being special?

But I agree the timeline is wonky. I wonder what this reboot is like and if this CS separation was also because they were trying to prove Hook could have storylines without Emma that would work. Its almost like it was a test for the spin off they had just pitched to Channing.

This all ties into the fact that they apparently were doing reshoots for other episodes up to close to the end. For example, Jen posted a photo of "the last Charming lunch this season" which had Ginny, Jennifer and Colin in their pancake scene costumes. That happened three episodes ago so why was it shot close to the end of the season? I think the wedding time line getting pushed up because of Jen could explain that but again, what was their plan for the musical episode if it hadn't all along been the wedding episode?

[scenicbyway]

18 minutes ago, sharky said:

I don't know if they moved up the wedding for Jen. It sounds like they started working on the musical episode in December and writing the finale in January. It feels like a musical episode was supposed to be the wedding -- why just do a musical without it being special?

But I agree the timeline is wonky. I wonder what this reboot is like and if this CS separation was also because they were trying to prove Hook could have storylines without Emma that would work. Its almost like it was a test for the spin off they had just pitched to Channing.

This all ties into the fact that they apparently were doing reshoots for other episodes up to close to the end. For example, Jen posted a photo of "the last Charming lunch this season" which had Ginny, Jennifer and Colin in their pancake scene costumes. That happened three episodes ago so why was it shot close to the end of the season? I think the wedding time line getting pushed up because of Jen could explain that but again, what was their plan for the musical episode if it hadn't all along been the wedding episode?

If you leave off "Happy Beginning" it's really no longer the wedding episode and you fill the "wedding time" instead with setting up for the finale and hanging out at Granny's as usual.  The musical becomes how they banish the Black Fairy but of course the curse is still cast for the finale and after they fight their way back, they have the wedding in the last 15 minutes of the episode leaving enough time to flash forward to adult Henry with the little girl knocking on his door setting up the next season.

The musical wedding worked fine, but without that last song it could've been the typical (but special) penultimate episode.

All the reshoots really do point to a plot shakeup.

[General Days]

12 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I just don't see myself being interested in any version of Once without Emma. Emma is the characters whos journey I started with, and she's the character I'm most invested in. Even when A & E stuck her in stupid boring, nonsensical plots, I still loved Emma and rooted for her to find her happy ending, so why would I watch a version of this show without her? That's not to say that I'm not invested in the other characters or the story (my love for Hook is never ending), but I signed up for Emma and her story, and without it, it might as well be another show.

No Emma, no me. This is the fairy tale of Emma Swan. It's not my fault that Adam and Eddy are too obtuse to understand what they created.

10 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Seriously, I hope they won't go through with a season 7 at this point, because no good can come out of it.

And the fact that ABC might give it one more go despite the continuous decline in quality and ratings while cancelling a great show like The Muppets after only ONE season infuriates me.

All season long, I have been convinced ONCE was coming back and there would be no cancellation. Since JMo revealed she would only appear in one episode of a potential seventh season, I've done a 180. I don't know where The Idiots In Charge ended season six, but it has to be better (even if it includes her death) than a seventh season without Emma, in the fairy tale of Emma Swan. Give it up, A&E.

[SiobhanJW]

I don't know if it's going to be renewed or not. But I do think it's weird we haven't gotten any sneak peaks, script teases or any sort of promotion these past few days. It's the finale on Sunday and it's radio silence. 

[Souris]

10 minutes ago, SiobhanJW said:

I don't know if it's going to be renewed or not. But I do think it's weird we haven't gotten any sneak peaks, script teases or any sort of promotion these past few days. It's the finale on Sunday and it's radio silence. 

The Once Twitter did one post after the Jen news, and tons of people replied to cancel the show. Maybe they decided to just lay low for a couple days.

[cappoe]

20 minutes ago, SiobhanJW said:

I don't know if it's going to be renewed or not. But I do think it's weird we haven't gotten any sneak peaks, script teases or any sort of promotion these past few days. It's the finale on Sunday and it's radio silence. 

I honestly think that is a sign it won't be renewed. Adam has not even given out a script tease which he usually would by now. It's radio silence for the cast the little girl tweeted that she's nervous cause she still hasn't heard anything about S7. I honestly do think it's cancelled. 

If the JMO news didn't do it the ratings for the heavily promoted musical episode did.

There was a new article and Josh said some fans will be upset and angry with the finale. He said that most fans will be happy for example Emma and Regina end in a very satisfying place but some will be mad. I've got 3 guesses as to whom I think this is about and it's a person that is supposedly almost for sure in S7. How is he gonna be in S7 if he's dead.

Could the reboot be taking place in the wish realm?

Edited May 11, 2017 by cappoe