Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[BraveEnoughtoBe]

I understand that because of the sister thing, they wanted Regina to be the one to defeat Zelena . . . but that doesn't mean that I like it.  So Snow and Charming risked their lives and cast a curse, disrupting not only Emma and Henry's life in New York, but everybody else's life as well, because they were under the impression that Emma was the only one who could defeat Zelena.  Since that is not what is happening in the clip, it can be deduced that it was all for nothing.  Emma and Henry could have stayed in New York and Regina could have defeated Zelena in FTL.

[Crimson Belle]

So fairly obvious a TLK is what will restore Emmy's powers, if any of us will even care at that point.

[dassala]

Someone point out on TWoP that it looks like Abigail behind Emma and Hook dancing??

[BoPeeps]

Dropping this is the spoilery thread because it involves next week's promo...

Do my big screen HD TV eyes deceive me or is Hook punching....Hook...in the preview????? Well one handed Hook punching two handed...Hook...

And could it be red dressed princess Emma who, perhaps using her magic again after regaining it in Portal Hole-ville is being arrested for being a witch and dragged off by armed guards for the burning at the stake????

 

Or maybe I shouldn't have the warm apple pie with quite so much ALA mode for dessert right before watching OUAT tonight.

Heh.

 

Honestly, fun fun fun.

[InsertWordHere]

Someone point out on TWoP that it looks like Abigail behind Emma and Hook dancing??

I didn't see Abigail, but I did see what looks like Rapunzel with her parents.

[Crimson Belle]

It would be like this show to have Emma's powers gone for good, because well, Regina and what not.  Can't have two powerful people.

 

But if this show were creative (in other words, this will never happen), the green necklace has Emma's powers trapped in it.  And Regina knows it, hence her little smirk and evil laugh.

[Mari]

It would be like this show to have Emma's powers gone for good, because well, Regina and what not.  Can't have two powerful people.

 

But if this show were creative (in other words, this will never happen), the green necklace has Emma's powers trapped in it.  And Regina knows it, hence her little smirk and evil laugh.

But Regina's a hero, with white magic now.  The show has repeatedly told us that Regina's a hero.  So, you know, Regina's a hero now.  Able to be super amazingly good and extra lovey and magical even without her heart.

 

Would a hero with white magic do that?  (But you're right--it would be a nice twist.)

[dassala]

A TLK with Hook will probably bring Emma's powers back. You know, this show tends to be all round-about. A kiss takes them away, a kiss brings them back.

 

Sherwood Forest seems the most likely destination for next season. I can't imagine we're going to spend a whole season in the past...

[BoPeeps]

Spoilery Speculation:

I doubt Zelena is not "merely dead and really, most sincerely dead".

I have a feeling she might be around at the *burning at the stake* we were foretold about by Ginny Goodwin.

I don't think Emma has lost her magic at all, but is merely suppressing it behind one of those walls she loves to build and was lying to Hook about it because she wanted to be a little shit and torture him more about going back to New York.

As far as the much yearned for and needed lip lock...wellll, it probably is going to happen big time but only after Hook (like a genuine honest to goodness actual true love) drops himself into the portal after Emma is sucked in and has helped Her undo what she did by falling through the portal into the EF forest and screwing everything up!

Edited May 7, 2014 by BoPeeps

[dassala]

Who's betting on Blackbeard being Hook's Papa?

[SimoneS]

Is anyone in the main cast on this show not related to each other or the big bad of the moment? I would be surprised if Hook was not related to Black Beard.

[Pattyjs]

Eddie and Adam seemed to indicate Black Beard wasn't Hook's father.... plus he would also have to be 300+ years old.  How many characters can they really have like that?  I think if they address Hook's father in the future we will find it to be Davy Jones and he will probably be some evil entity who sold his soul to the gods of the sea for immortality.  It could make for a nice season 4B.

 

As for 4A I absolutely believe that it will be Sherwood Forest related.  I think Hook and Emma will inadvertly change history regarding Maid Marian(without knowing it) and now she will be alive.   This is why Wil Scarlet will show up in the final mintues of the finale.  Prince John will be our bad guy.  Robin in 4A will have to leave Regina to save Marian who is now missing, not dead.  She may even end up caring for Roland while Robin searches for his wife.    Regina will be miserable and slowly resort to her evil ways -- which would make me very happy by the way.  I love the Evil Regal.

[dassala]

My theories are getting shot down left and right. LOL

 

Ok, so the 300+ age for Blackbeard is unlikely. But everyone's related, right?

 

The thing that's troubling me now is the "married as". That's a strange combination of words. So..."Hook and Emma are married as Prince Charles and Princess Leia"? So it's not really binding or anything? Or "Abigail and Charming are just getting married as Snow sweeps in to stop it"?

[daxx]

Adam replied to my tweet.

@daxx04: @AdamHorowitzLA After the finale will it be obvious to viewers that the time loop is an open or closed loop? Or will it be uncertain? #OUAT

@AdamHorowitzLA: @daxx04 should be obvious where we stand. I hope. :)

https://twitter.com/...907230861885440

[Ariah]

So, it was a semi-open closed time loop I guess ;)

[maryle]

Ithere I thought that kept popping in my head yesterday when we learned that frozen or and the snow queen will the next story that's coming to the storybook. Maybe the presence of the mirror in the mysterious room of the DO was not an incident after all the mirror is a big part of the snow queen story. It brought the worse in people or something like that in the original tales? So I don't remember if Hook look into it before or after that he took the urn keeping the snow queen ? But that scene could for comic relief or there something bigger that been planted there in fact why the DO kept a Mirror in a place or only thé mots evil or incertain object are?

[myril]

In Andersen's Snow Queen an evil troll made a looking-glass, that showed everything in ugly and bad ways, making everything bad and worthless bigger while everything beautiful so small it was hardly visible at all. When some trolls tried to bring it up to heaven to have troll fun up there, they lost it, it fell and was broken into pieces. Some pieces were so small they could enter eyes and hearts and made then people only see the worst and turn hearts cold like ice. The mirror in the vault was still intact but more importantly, Hook found his reflection in it handsome, so it can't be that mirror from the Snow Queen.

 

Thought for a ,moment it was the mirror used to push Cora into Wonderland, but can't be either, the mirror was broken afterwards.

 

Hook found the urn after he looked into the mirror.

[Rumsy4]

Apparently in the recent Spooky Con appearance, Lana said that she knew Regina had killed Marian in the fireplace scene with Robin in 3.21, and informed her acting with that. Not sure what to make of it. They probably all got the scripts to 3.21 and 3.22 together, but Lana seems to be implying that Regina knew about Marian.

[SilverShadow]

I was actually at that panel and I thought it was ambigious as to how much regina knew VS how much Lana knew. Here's a link to the Robin/Regina part of conversation, in case anyone inetrprets it differently.

[KingOfHearts]

The writers may not know whether Regina should have known who Marian was or not.  Perhaps they told Lana in case in S4 they decide for Regina to have known. Since the majority of S4 hasn't been written yet, it could go either way.

Edited June 2, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

I would have trouble buying that Regina knew but wasn't more wracked with guilt about it and whether she should tell him. I mean, that's the mother of his child she killed. If she is truly redeemed, she ought to be pretty cut up about the fact that she hurt the man she loves so much (even if she didn't know him yet) and at least be struggling with not telling him.

 

I also don't know how they could possibly salvage the Regina/Hood relationship if she had kept that from him, either. (But then, I'm still not sure how they can possibly salvage it even with him finding out she was responsible now, and yet I imagine they will, so who knows). 

[Rumsy4]

Regina has never felt guilt yet, has she? I mean--she is "No Regrets Regina". She probably thinks she has put her murderous behavior "behind her" without thinking from the PoV of the affected party. Somehow, I doubt it will make a big difference to what they have planned. 

[KAOS Agent]

It sounded like they told Lana that Regina had killed Marian, but that Lana assumed that Regina didn't know that she'd done it because to her Marian was just another random peasant. That's backed up by how they made it clear in the finale that no one knew who Marian was because she refused to tell anyone her name, so I'd go with Regina not knowing she'd done it. However, if the writers told Lana that Regina had killed Marian in the original timeline that does mean that had Emma not intervened, Marian would have died at Regina's hand and not after some event allowed her to escape and die later as some have posited. That it has been confirmed by the actress/writers that Regina killed Marian ends any possibility that I'll ever be okay with Outlaw Queen.

[Rumsy4]

...had Emma not intervened, Marian would have died at Regina's hand and not after some event allowed her to escape and die later as some have posited.

 

I thought it was made clear in the episode that Marian would have died but for Emma (meaning she did die in the original). And that's why I can't ship OQ anymore either. 

 

I was actually at that panel and I thought it was ambigious as to how much regina knew VS how much Lana knew. Here's a link to the Robin/Regina part of conversation, in case anyone inetrprets it differently.

 

Thanks, Silvershadow. I agree--it does seem ambiguous if Regina was supposed to know. She may have suspected--but it's hard to believe she would have known for sure. 

Edited June 3, 2014 by Rumsy4

[stealinghome]

I haven't watched the clip to see what Lana says, but I don't think Regina knew. If she did know, wouldn't she have looked more horrified in the split-second between when Emma brought Marian over and Robin said "Marian!"? imo Regina showed absolutely no recognition until Robin said Marian's name--and even then I don't think she looked like "shit, everyone found out!" but more like "...WHAT???" as she was putting the pieces together. Regardless of what she says, to me, Lana P played it as if Regina didn't know. (And obviously they're never above retconning anything in this show, but the writing for the finale really doesn't support Regina knowing either.)

 

That said, I also hope Regina didn't know for two reasons. First, because the lesson I think Regina is supposed to learn from this is that "everyone is relevant to someone." The point of the Marian storyline--aside from Marian being a spoiler for Outlaw Queen--is supposed, I think, to be putting a human face on the until now very abstract (for Regina) damage Regina has done. It's easy to blow off the fact that you've killed a bunch of people when you've never been called to account for it and have never had to look into the eyes of anyone who loved those people and see what your actions did to them, or when your victims (Charmings) have offered you blanket forgiveness even when you don't deserve it. But everyone is loved by someone. Everyone is someone else's person. And that is a vital lesson that Regina needs to understand--that yes, actions have consequences, like killing a lot of people often makes their loved ones upset with you and makes you a bad person. So it completely undercuts the lesson Regina should be learning here if Regina knew who Marian was. That you can't just go around doing things to people because you're breaking someone else's heart when you do it.

 

Second, and probably the most important, is that it makes Regina so low as a human being if she went after the husband of a woman she killed with nary a thought to the fact that she killed the wife--or that the husband deserved to know--that just, ick. I mean, Regina's pretty obviously a terrible person already, what with being a mass murderer/rapist/child killer/child abuser/destroyer of an entire world/murderer of her own father/mind raper and enslaver, taker away of identities and free will/etc, so I don't quite know why this would bother me so much. But going after a guy whose wife you killed, unbeknownst to him? That's just...gross and awful. It's a different kind of new low. I don't want to see it on my screen, and if they want to have any chance of selling me at all on Outlaw Queen/Regina as some sort of redeemed person (barf), it needs to not be the case.

Edited June 3, 2014 by stealinghome

[SilverShadow]

Excellent points, stealinghome. I agree that logically it makes the most sense that Lana knew but Regina didn't. Especially since they made such a point of Marian not sharing her identity and implying her family thought she was already dead.

[KingOfHearts]

I personally don't think Regina knew. Marian was another random red shirt to the Evil Queen. In Witch Hunt, Regina seemed at least a tiny bit concerned that Roland lost his mother. I think she would have showed more expression if she knew that she in fact killed her.

Edited June 3, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Ariah]

Apparently, Colin has been hired in an indie film production, The Dust Storm (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-dust-storm), the info here: 

 

Perhaps Hook will be frozen for the good part of 4A?...

[Aliasscape]

 

Perhaps Hook will be frozen for the good part of 4A?...

 

They claim they have 80% of their funding, the $22,000 makes up 20% it means they have a budget of what, about $100,000 to make the movie?  That's certainly not going to fund that many production days. I'd guess maybe 10 shooting days tops? For Once, that's 1 maybe 2 episodes assuming this even happens during the time period Once is in production.

[sharky]

From what I read, it sounds like they're filming the movie in June so it shouldn't cut into Once. And if it does, I'm assuming Colin would have to drop the movie for the show -- Josh Dallas had to do the same thing for the Thor sequel.

[Souris]

Yeah, if the budget is $100,000, that's going to be a FAST, bare-bones shoot. That's, like, coffee money for some movies. I wouldn't worry a bit about it affecting Once filming.

[Shanna Marie]

And if he's under contract as a regular in a TV series, unless the producers are feeling generous and allow him time to take off to shoot something else, the existing contract trumps anything else. So I don't anticipate seeing less Hook next season.

[RadioGirl27]

There are TV shows with bigger budgets per episode, so I don't think it would take them more than 10-15 days to shoot the whole movie (Clint Eastwood only needed 40 days to shoot Million Dollar Baby). So yeah, we don't need to worry about Hook.

[Rumsy4]

Some spoilers from eonline. http://www.eonline.com/news/547404/spoiler-chat-scoop-on-revenge-pretty-little-liars-the-bachelor-once-upon-a-time-and-more

 

Rebecca M.: I'm still so upset that Regina is getting her happy ending taken away from her! Is she going to re-embrace her evil side on Once Upon a Time next season?

Funny you should bring that up because when we chatted with OUAT co-creator Eddy Kitsis, we asked him that very question. Gird your loins, magic lovers, because hell hath no fury like an evil queen scorned! "We have built 66 episodes of growth for Regina and this is a very big setback," Kitsis revealed. "The question we want the audience to think about is, 'How does she handle it?' It is a very uncomfortable situation for everyone involved, it's very complicated. She's done a lot of growing and yet we know what her weaknesses are." Translation: Emma you had better run, girl!

 

Well...boo hoo, Regina! :-p

Edited June 3, 2014 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

Some spoilers from eonline. http://www.eonline.com/news/547404/spoiler-chat-scoop-on-revenge-pretty-little-liars-the-bachelor-once-upon-a-time-and-more

 

 

Well...boo hoo, Regina! :-p

 

Apple turnovers, anyone?

Edited June 3, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[FurryFury]

Yeah, I doubt that. She'll probably snark and make speeches and maybe even try to conjure a spell or two for the majority of the premiere, but will calm down very soon, maybe even in that episode, so that the viewers can safely continue to hate that scheming bitch Marion who had the audacity to want to stay alive and be with her family. How dare she!

[KingOfHearts]

Yeah, I doubt that. She'll probably snark and make speeches and maybe even try to conjure a spell or two for the majority of the premiere, but will calm down very soon, maybe even in that episode, so that the viewers can safely continue to hate that scheming bitch Marion who had the audacity to want to stay alive and be with her family. How dare she!

Unless Marian isn't really Marian! :O

[FurryFury]

That would be a shark-jumping moment, for sure.

[KingOfHearts]

That would be a shark-jumping moment, for sure.

Wouldn't put it past this show after Regina used light magic, lol.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm glad they acknowledged that they had 66 episodes revolving mostly around Regina.

 

And she won't do anything that's too out there because of her leash Henry.

[Serena]

Yeah, if the budget is $100,000, that's going to be a FAST, bare-bones shoot. That's, like, coffee money for some movies. I wouldn't worry a bit about it affecting Once filming.

Considering Jennifer managed to shoot two movies and direct a third so far in the Once hiatus, I'm betting Colin can fit one movie in.

Also, he would be totally dumb to give up being in even one episode of Once in favour of an indie film that's getting its money from crowd-funding. 

[FAU]

Some spoilers from eonline. http://www.eonline.com/news/547404/spoiler-chat-scoop-on-revenge-pretty-little-liars-the-bachelor-once-upon-a-time-and-more

 

 

Well...boo hoo, Regina! :-p

 

Ugh, it does sound like more Poor Regina scenes only it's more on Emma this time instead of Snow.

 

I'm glad they acknowledged that they had 66 episodes revolving mostly around Regina.

 

And she won't do anything that's too out there because of her leash Henry.

 

That wouldn't matter if everyone forgave her in the end, she can get away with anything as long as they keep shooting scenes of her crying and being sad.

[Dani-Ellie]

"The question we want the audience to think about is, 'How does she handle it?' It is a very uncomfortable situation for everyone involved, it's very complicated. She's done a lot of growing and yet we know what her weaknesses are."

 

I swear to whatever higher power may be up there, if we get a full-on backslide, I'll be so freakin' irritated. The entirety of Storybrooke can't live the rest of their lives afraid of how Regina might react to something. Emotionally, they're no freer now than they were under the Evil Queen's reign. If we're doing this, I want to see a Regina who actually grows up a little bit and doesn't react like a toddler who makes everyone else miserable because she's cranky.

[FAU]

I swear to whatever higher power may be up there, if we get a full-on backslide, I'll be so freakin' irritated. The entirety of Storybrooke can't live the rest of their lives afraid of how Regina might react to something. Emotionally, they're no freer now than they were under the Evil Queen's reign. If we're doing this, I want to see a Regina who actually grows up a little bit and doesn't react like a toddler who makes everyone else miserable because she's cranky.

 

It's all about Poor Regina's happiness, even with the curse broken.

[Emma]

I hope Emma gets a few good magic blasts in on Regina if they're going down this stupid road again.

[sharky]

Wait, I'm confused. Are we mad at Adam and Eddy because they are creating a Regina that will need people to feel sorry for her or a Regina that goes evil again? In this case, I feel like there may be just negativity for negativity's sake since it seems no one is going to be happy no matter how the storyline goes.

[FAU]

Wait, I'm confused. Are we mad at Adam and Eddy because they are creating a Regina that will need people to feel sorry for her or a Regina that goes evil again? In this case, I feel like there may be just negativity for negativity's sake since it seems no one is going to be happy no matter how the storyline goes.

 

For trying to force this Poor Regina stuff on us again and for having the other characters having to be careful around her character anytime her character might backslide.

[Dani-Ellie]

Wait, I'm confused. Are we mad at Adam and Eddy because they are creating a Regina that will need people to feel sorry for her or a Regina that goes evil again?

 

At this point, I'm just so over Regina and Regina's problems. If they take this like stealinghome said above and use Marian's return as a way for Regina to finally understand that like, her evil queeniness ruined many, many lives, I'll have no issue with it. In fact, I would very much appreciate the character growth. If they take it the direction I fear they're going to, where Emma and co. now have to hide out and grovel at Regina's feet because Regina's on the warpath yet again, I'll be immensely frustrated, especially considering everyone in 3B pretty much took a backseat to Regina's (so-called, in my opinion) redemption arc.

 

I'm just tired of the flip-flopping. Either redeem her or don't. Pick one, writers, because this little from Column A and little from Column B thing is tiring.

[retrograde]

From TV Line:

 

Question: Will we get to see Once Upon a Time‘s “Rumbelle” as a married couple, seeing them in their home instead if the shop all the time? Will they have a honeymoon, eventually? Will we see some happy times?  –Intarr
Ausiello: Funny you should bust out the H-word. Because in previewing Season 4 — where Rumple will continue to conceal the secret about the true dagger, as well as revisit whatever complicated history he has with that ice queen, Elsa — series cocreator Adam Horowitz said, “There is a list of things that are brewing for Belle and Rumple to deal with, but before they do, let’s let them enjoy their honeymoon.” (Surely he was speaking figuratively, so calm down, everyone.)

 

I wonder if maybe they're going to sit on this until 4b, then?

[KAOS Agent]

Regina backsliding into evil wouldn't surprise me at all given that I didn't buy the redemption arc they were selling. However, Regina used freaking white magic and that was supposedly more "good" power than Glinda the Good Witch was able to muster, so an evil Regina again just makes that whole 3B storyline more ridiculous. Slight backsliding and being upset is understandable, going full on evil and blaming Emma without evaluating her own actions and their consequences is not. The constant flip-flopping has got to stop with her because at some point (and for me this point has already been passed), it just gets to be too much that the heroes are willing to allow Regina to remain free and able to commit chaos every time something makes Regina sad.