Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[sharky]

Lana (and I adore her frenetic soul) was all over the place, but really, when you are dealing with the total mess of the drama A&E have set up regarding Marian and Robin and Regina, how can she be anything else but totally OUT there and somewhat lost?

To be fair though, it sounds like Lana hadn't received the first script for the new season at that point. I think once the actors got ahold of it, it would become much clearer to them which direction the writers are taking their characters. Other than that, it may just be a shot in the dark and all over the place unless the writers gave them at least a bit of a head's up about where the plot is going this season.

[tv echo]

Given the huge success of the Frozen movie, there's likely going to be a Frozen 2 movie.  So anything they do on this show has to be consistent with that second movie - kinda like how Agents of SHIELD has to be consistent with the Marvel movies.

 

Frankly, I think it was a mistake to bring in Elsa to this show, but I guess they're trying to up the ratings.

[Serena]

I don't think they need to be consistent with Frozen 2, any more than they had to be consistent with Cinderella 2 or 3 (or the first one, for that matter). I'm sure they can't make Else completely evil or anything like that, but then I bet they have the same restrictions with all the Disney Princesses - they could get away with it with Peter Pan because there are not millions of little girls buying PP merchandise.

[BoPeeps]

I agree that they are not under the literal constraints of any Frozen2. They have built their entire program around messing with the rules and fracturing the fairy tales.

 

What I think the real problem with bringing Elsa in is that it is so immediate and tied to her tremendous popularity NOW. Those parents who tune in anew with their younger, Elsa-adoring children may be a tad shocked with the premise, and do more damage than good for the rep of the show. Those of us who hang around Storybrooke anyway won't be surprised by the flip flop characterizations of established literary/legendary/fairy tale figures, but new fans might be a bit shocked, dismayed, or overly protective of their beloved Disney princesses.(and let's face it...Disney is a business. Their diehard fans' money/happiness is what talks. )

 

Risky move for A&E. It could be a rough transition...or kick butt fun.

[stealinghome]

Do we think that bringing in Frozen is going to actually give the show a ratings bump one way or the other, though? I'm very skeptical.

[KingOfHearts]

Whether or not Frozen boosts viewership is probably dependent on the amount of marketing they end up doing for it.

[Camera One]

Risky move for A&E.

 

Replying in Speculation.

[snarkastic]

 

Do we think that bringing in Frozen is going to actually give the show a ratings bump one way or the other, though? I'm very skeptical.

My brother commented to me about Elsa being on OUAT the day after the finale and he has never watched/been interested in the show ever, so people outside the show's fanbase have definitely heard about it. Whether that translates to viewership... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[pezgirl7]

I think there will be a ratings boost, at least for the premiere. If the Frozen fans are irked by any changes the show makes to the the story, I assume they won't watch the next episode, and we'll see a ratings drop. On a side note, I work for a large retail chain, and they are already planning a Frozen-palooza in the stores at Christmas. Oh joy.

[Mari]

I think there will be a ratings boost, at least for the premiere. If the Frozen fans are irked by any changes the show makes to the the story, I assume they won't watch the next episode, and we'll see a ratings drop. On a side note, I work for a large retail chain, and they are already planning a Frozen-palooza in the stores at Christmas. Oh joy.

I haven't seen Frozen.  It's been so over exposed and hyped, that I now have no desire to see it at all, and if I were a new viewer it would make me sure I didn't want to tune into Once. It's possible that Frozen is actually lose-lose for ratings.  How do they keep it close enough to the original to please the Frozen die-hards, while twist it enough to make it interesting for the people that have seen the movie once, but aren't interested in a live-action repeat?

 

It's easier with most of the other fairytales, because there are so many versions that there's no one definitive canon story.

[tv echo]

Moved to Speculation thread.

Edited June 29, 2014 by tv echo

[Serena]

The actors are already going to Vancouver and filming starts in less than two weeks. We should get some major casting announcements next week, unless they try to keep it under wraps to reveal it at Comic Con. They shouldn't though, because the fans have eagle eyes. I remember both Amy Acker and Chris Gorham were spotted by fans on set before their casting was announced!

[Dianthus]

I just posted this over on the Spoiler-phobic thread, but I think it's ok here, too. I think I can see a decent workaround for the Hooded Triangle.

Cora appealed to Hook's vanity and wounded pride to recruit him to her cause. He could do the same with Regina, if only for a better reason. She needs a good verbal B!tch-slapping, and he's the one to deliver it, IMO. 

[BoPeeps]

There is a ONCE premiere script page tweeted by Adam as a teaser and, as I am sure they planned, the opening page of the script shows through the title page. Not an accident I am sure, and in the bleed through script words, there seems to be some serious action taking place on a ship. Could be Elsa's parents on that unfortunate voyage, which could be The Jolly Roger, being captained by whoever traded Hook for the bean.

[retrograde]

There is a ONCE premiere script page tweeted by Adam as a teaser and, as I am sure they planned, the opening page of the script shows through the title page. Not an accident I am sure

I believe it was actually tweeted by an executive from the show, and has since been deleted, so I don't think it was deliberate. 

[stealinghome]

I believe it was actually tweeted by an executive from the show, and has since been deleted, so I don't think it was deliberate. 

Really? HA! Between Hulu and the ABC execs, Kitsis and Horowitz must be like "no technology ever approaches our show again, ever!"

[retrograde]

Well fortunately for them, it really wasn't that spoilery -- it just tells us that the season opens on a boat in a storm, presumably in the Frozen universe. But I think people often underestimate how far fans will go for spoilers. 

[Rumsy4]

Lol. Really? Remember when the composer Mark Isham tweeted a picture of the Outlaw Queen kiss weeks before it happened? 

[Camera One]

Kitsis and Horowitz must be like "no technology ever approaches our show again, ever!"

 

They need to give a repeat of their workshop "Once Upon a Publicity Stunt: How to Answer Questions With Non-Answers".

[daxx]

They need to give a repeat of their workshop "Once Upon a Publicity Stunt: How to Answer Questions With Non-Answers".

Led by Adam Horowitz sass master and trolling troll that trolls. Mr. #nospoilers himself.

[Dejajeva]

I just read that colin was headed to Vancouver so it's gonna start soon!!!! I've been so lonely without legit all the time spoilers. Will the Americans head now or after the Holiday?

[Amerilla]

Will the Americans head now or after the Holiday?

 

 

I think everyone is going to start to trickle back after this week. Carlyle tweeted this weekend that they don't wrap the movie he's shooting in Glasgow for another week, so I wouldn't expect him to turn up for a couple of weeks. Emilie was in still in Europe as of this weekend. I think Jen might also be still traveling - isn't she doing a con in Australia this week? Or was it last week?

 

It's like summer vacation - it might be nice to get back to school and see your friends, but you really want to savor those final days of break. 

[sharky]

I think Jen is going to be in Australia next week. Not sure why Colin is getting there early -- maybe it's to adjust to the time difference or get his family settled. Hell, I wouldn't mind hanging out in Vancouver for awhile just for the hell of it. :)

 

Although I think they start back on July 9 or so and we still haven't heard about Elsa casting. I can't remember if it took this long last year to find out who was playing Peter Pan. Did we know who it was by the time Comic-Con rolled around?

[Serena]

I think Jen is going to be in Australia next week. Not sure why Colin is getting there early -- maybe it's to adjust to the time difference or get his family settled. Hell, I wouldn't mind hanging out in Vancouver for awhile just for the hell of it. :)

 

Although I think they start back on July 9 or so and we still haven't heard about Elsa casting. I can't remember if it took this long last year to find out who was playing Peter Pan. Did we know who it was by the time Comic-Con rolled around?

No, we didn't "officially" know until after 301 aired. The actor was even credited as "Lost Boy" in the 301 press release. Him being Pan was supposed to be the end-of-episode twist.

But I think it'll be different for Elsa, I bet they want to make a big deal about the casting.

 

I also think Colin is there early because he has a big move to make, unlike for example Jennifer, who goes back to the US like 3 or 4 times a month anyway. 

[KingOfHearts]

Only 9 more days until filming begins, so I'm told.

 

Can't wait for set pictures. I'd like to see if Storybrooke goes into eternal winter. If so, the photos have to be interesting to see in the middle of summer. It'll make me happy just to see the cast filming again. Elsa's casting announcement can't be too far off!

[Souris]

The casting of Anna and Kristoff has been announced.

 

I don't know anything about them, but they look the part (especially the Kristoff actor, who seems to be going over well with people who watched Greek).

Edited July 1, 2014 by Souris

[Camera One]

The actress for Anna hardly has any credits, while the guy playing Kristoff has more. This will probably be akin to the thankless roles of Aurora and Philip.

[stealinghome]

I didn't really watch Greek, so can't comment on the acting, but I agree that these two at least look the part.

 

I really hope they+whoever is cast as Elsa can ACT, though. The casting department has sometime brought on some, shall we say, rather wooden guest stars in the past; as 4A looks like it's going to be so Frozen-heavy, if any of the Frozen Trio are bad, it's not going to be pretty.

[Serena]

They're cute. Apparently the girl playing Anna just graduated from drama school, so this is her first credit. That means her audition must have wowed them, since she booked the part on the strenght of it and not because she was a "name". And at least she went to drama school, so she's not a model trying to act just because.

[Camera One]

The wooden ones tended to be the guest stars and one-offs, or recurring supporting.

Elsa will be a heavy-hitter. They made good choices for Peter Pan and Zelena, so I think Elsa will be similar to that. Either someone they worked with on "Lost" or some other well-known or respected actress with a body of work.

[Souris]

That's a huge get for an actress who just graduated UNCSA last month. They must have really liked her. The casting department has found some great unknowns/little-knowns for key roles (Colin, Robbie, Bailee), so I hope she's in that vein.

[Rumsy4]

The casting departmenr for ONCE has generally been phenomenal, so I feel hopeful. The Kristoff actor looks soo adorable!!!

[Aliasscape]

I'm already seeing the fans who are Frozen fans without being OUAT ones being like oh they don't look enough like them. They won't be like them enough.

 

Goodness I feel bad for these people. I worry they think Once serves up live action versions of animated characters ala Enchanted and it's just not like that at all. It's like you better hope the characters share one core quality and they might not even do that very well. OUAT pays such lip service to the fact that "This is Ariel. This is Cinderella."

 

As they put Elsa in there first, and because a character with rage issues who can cause disasters works for the Onceverse I expect Elsa to have the most in common with Frozen's Elsa. I expect every other character to be people that vaguely look like them, share the same names but have almost nothing in common with the actual characters. Elsa will have a sister named Anna and they'll probably be quite loyal to each other. That's the only thing they have to keep true. But stuff like Anna's clumsy, Anna's exuberant, Anna's whatever other major traits, yeah, maybe, maybe not. They're telling their version of this story. There will be things about OUAT's Frozen characters that will have nothing in common with their true Frozen counterparts and that will be done on purpose.

 

It's just, these people have no idea how disappointed they are likely about to be.

 

Edit: Oh and I wouldn't consider Bailee Madison "little known" as far as child actors go. It's like if you don't know many child actors at all maybe you didn't know her, but if you pay attention to that sort of thing Bailee actually is pretty high profile.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Aliasscape

[Camera One]

It's just, these people have no idea how disappointed they are likely about to be.

Pity on them if the writers throw in a few of their patented twists like Kristoff used to be a Snowman until Rumple needed slave labor to build his Castle and Elsa was Rumple's long-lost mother.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Camera One

[Serena]

I don't know what these people expected. For Once to genetically engineer the Frozen characters in a lab? I actually think the actors look quite a lot like the characters. 

[FAU]

I don't know what these people expected. For Once to genetically engineer the Frozen characters in a lab? I actually think the actors look quite a lot like the characters. 

 

Yeah, it's just Once's take on it.

[TheGreenKnight]

I remember the guy being the best character on Greek. I wasn't a fan of the overall show, but I did like him. I think he'll do well with the role, which'll probably be a throwaway role, I'm guessing.

[Petunia846]

Yeah, count me as a Greek fan who had to run over here and swoon. I loved Scott Michael Foster on that show. Hopefully Once doesn't ruin him for me like they did Michael Raymond-James, who was great on Terriers, but then...well, you know...

[kili]

I have never seen Greek, but I went to watch some clips. Scott Michael Foster seems like perfect casting for Kristoff (barring that genetically engineered in a lab idea). I can see the bones of Kristoff in Cappie.

Elizabeth Lail at least looks the part and the casting department has done well with casting unknowns/little knowns, so I'm hopeful.

I'm going to assume they've cast Elsa already and are just holding out her announcement. She's the bigger role and it seems like she would be necessary for next week's filming.

[retrograde]

It's interesting to see this news being reported on more mainstream news sites, because you can read the opinions and reactions of (what I assume to be) more "casual" viewers. Seems to be pretty sharply divided between "ZOMG I'm so excited"/"Frozen? Wow I might have to start watching again!" and "What a cheap marketing stunt, I am done with this show." Which is particularly interesting (to me, anyway) because the more hardcore fandom seems to be far more "Feh, we'll see what happens, I guess."

 

That was pretty much my attitude after the finale. It wouldn't be my first choice of universe to introduce to Once, but I think it could be fine if they okay their cards right. Problem is, the more I read outside reactions, the more I wonder if the show just can't win with this storyline. It is just going to be so heavily scrutinized by everyone from every angle (I already feel sorry for whoever is cast as Elsa). I think maybe no matter what they do, they will piss too many people off. I understand that the showrunners love Frozen and I understand the allure of playing with such a shiny new toy. But I wonder if this was the best decision for them to have made.

Edited July 1, 2014 by retrograde

[Mari]

 I understand that the showrunners love Frozen and I understand the allure of playing with such a shiny new toy. But I wonder if this was the best decision for them to have made.

Personally, I think it could be a disaster.  There's no way to please the truly hard-core Frozen fans--there's no plethora of different versions to have inoculated them to "My favorite character may not be . . .", and the more casual Frozen fans are going to either want--or very much not want--a live action version.

 

I think this could be lose-lose, because I think our actual Once characters are going to get shuffled off to the side, except for Regina and maybe Rumple, occasionally.

[FAU]

Personally, I think it could be a disaster.  There's no way to please the truly hard-core Frozen fans--there's no plethora of different versions to have inoculated them to "My favorite character may not be . . .", and the more casual Frozen fans are going to either want--or very much not want--a live action version.

 

I think this could be lose-lose, because I think our actual Once characters are going to get shuffled off to the side, except for Regina and maybe Rumple, occasionally.

 

That's pretty much how it is only with a different villain each time.

[sharky]

Which is why I'm hoping they get this out of their system one more time and go back to the central characters in season 4B. These have been fun but you can't have a new baddie showing up in Storybrooke every three weeks -- at least according to the Storybrooke calendar. No wonder Emma was afraid to keep Henry there. ;) That being said, did Adam and Eddy say 4B was going to be another villain? Have they even hinted yet what the second half of the season is going to be?

[Camera One]

They didn't announce Oz until the end of 3A.  I remember last December, they announced the casting of Rebecca Mader and people thought she was going to be Cruella de Vil.  I don't know when they confirmed that Peter Pan was goners by the end of 3A and a new villain would come in.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

The actors match their characters pretty well even without all the costumes and makeup, I must say!

 

The Once casting department does a great job of picking out actors that fit their Disney counterparts. Peter Pan, Regina and Snow, just to name a few. When they don't look/act like them, it's usually an intentional twist. (Like Rapunzel or Hook)

 

Elsa will probably be a more interesting casting. It's difficult to find young people who look like her. She has a unique visage that doesn't have many matches in the real world.

Edited July 2, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

That being said, did Adam and Eddy say 4B was going to be another villain? Have they even hinted yet what the second half of the season is going to be?

One thing I will say for what we know of 4A so far is that there doesn't seem to be a villain. Of course, someone could be pursuing Elsa, or Marian could not be who she says she is, but I think it's also possible that this half-season could be more about helping Elsa get back home/to her family and sorting out the hot mess that is Robin/Regina/Marian. It would actually be quite nice to have a half-season off from imminent doom. Then they can bring someone in for 4B.

 

Another thing I have considered about 4B: I wonder how early or late they got the green-light for the Frozen stuff? Because it did feel a bit tacked on to the finale. Before we knew about that, there was much speculation that between the return of Marian and the arrival of the Knave, the story would be headed to Sherwood Forest or maybe Camelot. Is it possible that whatever (or at least some) plans they did have for 4A have been pushed back since they got the thumbs-up for Frozen? We know the Frozen storyline is likely going to be in at least 9 of the 11 episodes, which doesn't leave that much room for R/R/M and all the other characters. Is it possible they'll put a lot of that stuff on the backburner for 4A then have it become the main plot for 4B?

[KAOS Agent]

Don't forget they've also set up the Rumpel/Belle fake dagger situation, although the showrunners did say that would be backburnered for a while. Apparently, Rumpel gets a honeymoon period albeit one with a potentially rampaging Elsa. I am very seriously concerned that this is going to become Once Upon a Frozen with a Side of Outlaw Queen and that is very much not a show I am interested in watching. I've not seen Frozen and don't intend to, so all of this hype means absolutely zilch to me. I care about the core characters - Emma, the Charmings, Regina & Rumpel - and so far all the press has not been about them which puts me squarely on the side of Frozen is a bad idea.

[retrograde]

I've not seen Frozen and don't intend to, so all of this hype means absolutely zilch to me. 

One thing I'll give them is that Frozen and its characters are fairly straightforward, so I don't think they will have too much trouble catching people who haven't seen it up. But yes, making them care is another thing entirely. 

[Featherhat]

 

As they put Elsa in there first, and because a character with rage issues who can cause disasters works for the Onceverse I expect Elsa to have the most in common with Frozen's Elsa. I expect every other character to be people that vaguely look like them, share the same names but have almost nothing in common with the actual characters. Elsa will have a sister named Anna and they'll probably be quite loyal to each other. That's the only thing they have to keep true. But stuff like Anna's clumsy, Anna's exuberant, Anna's whatever other major traits, yeah, maybe, maybe not. They're telling their version of this story. There will be things about OUAT's Frozen characters that will have nothing in common with their true Frozen counterparts and that will be done on purpose.

 

And this is why I agree with the wondering if the showrunners know what they've let themselves in fro both hype and storywise. We're still in the middle not even tail end of "these characters are perfect, don't touch them" part of fandom-phenomenon. I'm firmly in "wait and see with a side of doom" mode, but it will be interesting to see how it pans out if nothing else. 

[Amerilla]

I would be more ok with the Frozen thing if they were coming out of a really strong season where they had really showed they could deal with canon character from other properties and compellingly fit them into the Onceverse.

 

But the twists on Neverland and Oz, on Pan and the WWW, were flawed in so many ways that even the interesting concepts they were clearly working off of simply didn't come through. Their execution was so bad that not only were the new villains muddled, their core characters had to be wrenched out of character to make it land where they wanted it to.

 

They can introduce as many new lands and characters and Disney proprieties as they want, but it's the still the same showrunners, still the same writers, still the same directors coming up with the stories...and a bunch of increasingly confused and checked-out actors trying to breathe life into characters that have steadily been turned into caricatures of their former selves. 

 

So I guess I'm in the "doom with a side of wait and see" mode. :-)