Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Serena]

And thank god Merida isn't Rumple's mother. So does that mean we won't be seeing his mother at all?

Yes, that's what it means. At least in those episodes.

It's kind of awesome. I feel trolled, but in the best way.

[YaddaYadda]

i didn't get the comments about Camelot at all.  It runs parallel to the other universes.  Are we looking at some kind of Neverland type situation where time doesn't move where it does everywhere else?

 

And if you guys remember that comic book that came out in April (I think), Jefferson went to Camelot using his hat, so it's not accessible through the Enchanted Forest like apparently Oz is.

[Camera One]

"Every summer, make brand new rules" should be their mantra.

 

That Dark Emma in the cell stuff better not be canon.  That was horrific.  She reminds me a little of Gollum from "Lord of the Rings".  And that wasn't a compliment.

[mjgchick]

Wow they trolled us hard with the casting. People were PRESSED that they thought we were getting Rumples mom. Ha, good one show.

I really hope the whole town is the savior because the actual savior did the ultimate sacrifice for them. Or her parents. I liked the voice over of Snow in that trailer.

[Camera One]

That's probably Snow's only line in the season premiere.  I actually assumed part of it was a snippet of some line she had about darkness from 4B.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Camera One

[Dani-Ellie]

The Comic Con promos have never been canon. They're hat-tips more along the lines of "Hey, look what's coming!" and only the broadest strokes have ever made it onscreen. It's a promo, not a sneak peek.

 

It's also very clearly meant to echo this deleted scene from the pilot.

[YaddaYadda]

It's also very clearly meant to echo this deleted scene from the pilot.

Isn't that guy the same one whose heart Emma crushes?

[retrograde]

They showed a sneak peek last year, though. The one of Anna and Elsa at those rocks. 

[LizaD]

Well damn. Wrong is wrong. They're going to piss off some hardcore already bitter fanbase with that trolling though.

 

So why the hell throw Merida randomly in the premiere? On top of Camelot? These bozos.

[HoodlumSheep]

I wish they would have kept the No-mama-rumple thing a secret longer. I wish the new savior was anyone but regina. How awesome would it be to have Charming or Snow, Hook, Belle, Grumpy, Ruby, etc etc be the savior? It would be such a nice change of pace.

Edited July 11, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[RadioGirl27]

They showed a sneak peek last year, though. The one of Anna and Elsa at those rocks. 

Last year the Comic Con was later, so they had already shooted the season premiere, or most of it. This year they have shooted fot two days.

Lana Parrilla thinks Regina will take on the role of the savior this next season. #SDCC #OUAT

Of course she does. She and everybody else.

The EW Q&A made it sound like the Camelot characters did exist when Hook was in the royal navy, so maybe will get some more Killian and Liam flashbacks!

If only, but I didn't get that impression. And, really, we all know that if there is a flashback to that time it would be about Rumple and Merlin, not about Hook.

[Camera One]

So why the hell throw Merida randomly in the premiere? On top of Camelot? These bozos.

 

After throwing all three Queens of Darkness at 4B, nothing would surprise me at this point.  It's like they are constantly trying to beat their record for cramming supporting guest characters into an arc.  Arthur, Merlin, Lancelot, Guinevere, Percival, now Merida, and let's not forget our featured new regulars Robin Hood and Zelena, plus lingering questions about Lily's parentage.  No wonder it's pretty much Snow Who.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Camera One

[Serena]

I really love the longer Dark Swan promo, both that it's all about Emma and that it's narrated by Snow.

[Geeni]

Is there a transcript or full list of everything that was revealed anywhere?

[pezgirl7]

If only, but I didn't get that impression. And, really, we all know that if there is a flashback to that time it would be about Rumple and Merlin, not about Hook.

Sorry, the quote was actually from the EW comic con panel article...

Hook may have a connection to Camelot: “Camelot exists in a parallel timeline,” executive producer Adam Horowitz said. “It’s existed. How we portray it and show you, it’s existed long ago, short ago and maybe in the future. It may have co-existed with [when Hook was in the Royal Navy].”

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/11/comic-con-once-upon-time-panel-merida-season-5?adsf&hootPostID=691390fd46f69ef3919b9066ed052b0c

Maybe Adam was just trolling, but it seems odd to mention Hook and the royal navy if it weren't true. And no, we don't all know any flashbacks would only be about Merlin and Rumple, because they haven't even filmed it yet!

Is there a transcript or full list of everything that was revealed anywhere?

Did you check the Spoilers Only thread? Edited July 12, 2015 by pezgirl7

[Camera One]

Adam's words make no sense.  The other "spoilers" they gave are just as pointless. Henry may come to regret breaking the quill?  Well no duh.  How about trying to answer the question, "Will we ever know why Merlin decided it was a good idea to give the Author a pen that could make his own Apprentice do stuff against his will?"

[YaddaYadda]

Hook may have a connection to Camelot: “Camelot exists in a parallel timeline,” executive producer Adam Horowitz said. “It’s existed. How we portray it and show you, it’s existed long ago, short ago and maybe in the future. It may have co-existed with [when Hook was in the Royal Navy].”

 

I don't get what this means.  Do they exist in a time warp of sorts?  Is this them explaining why Arthur and Co never aged?  Are they going to explain this away with Merlin's magic?

 

"Will we ever know why Merlin decided it was a good idea to give the Author a pen that could make his own Apprentice do stuff against his will?"

 

Will we ever find out why Merlin would tether the darkness to a person when he apparently can destroy it himself?

Will we ever find out why Merlin did not keep the dagger that controls the Dark One?

Will we ever find out why Merlin built a hat that can cut the Dark One loose from the dagger?  I mean talk about being ultra stupid!

Is he the one who created the bare bones of the dark curse?  Because bravo!

 

Merlin sounds like someone who is mostly highly emotional and volatile and who enjoys manipulating shit because he can see in the future.  

[Curio]

Hook may have a connection to Camelot: “Camelot exists in a parallel timeline,” executive producer Adam Horowitz said. “It’s existed. How we portray it and show you, it’s existed long ago, short ago and maybe in the future. It may have co-existed with [when Hook was in the Royal Navy].”

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/11/comic-con-once-upon-time-panel-merida-season-5?adsf&hootPostID=691390fd46f69ef3919b9066ed052b0c

Maybe he was just trolling, but it seems odd to mention Hook and the royal navy if it weren't true.

 

He's not trolling, EW just copy and pasted what they said during the panel into their written article. Yvette mentioned something about Camelot existing during Killian's Royal Navy days, and that's how A&E responded. So without Yvette's leading question, the quote seems a bit out of place mentioning the navy part.

[pezgirl7]

He's not trolling, EW just copy and pasted what they said during the panel into their written article. Yvette mentioned something about Camelot existing during Killian's Royal Navy days, and that's how A&E responded. So without Yvette's leading question, the quote seems a bit out of place mentioning the navy part.

I meant maybe Adam was trolling with his answer, not the writer of the article. But I didn't know what the question was, so thanks! I still think it's possible that the timelines could have intersected since Adam said Camelot existed in the past. The parallel timeline is interesting, I'm not really sure how it'll work.

[Camera One]

By "parallel timeline", that sounds different from a situation like Oz where it just co-exists along with the Enchanted Forest?  Or is that what Adam means, a world that runs with a time parallel to the Enchanted Forest.  The worldbuilding is so undefined that his answer just raises more questions.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Camera One

[Souris]

Honestly, I think they needed Camelot to be in the past, but they had already introduced Lancelot as a contemporary of Snowing, so they had to hand wave some reason.

[Writing Wrongs]

Don't forget that they also had that whole fake Excalibur episode flashback. They mention Camelot and Merlin.

 

Snow White: (exhales) This weapon...what does Rumple say of its power? Was it made with dark magic?
Prince Charming: No, it was forged by a benevolent mage. His name is Merlin, from a realm called Camelot.

I'm not sure how they are gonna work this into present day. Plus that one article says Merida is connected to Camelot.

[sharky]

Wasn't Arthur on a quest for the Holy Grail? Is it possible that they are immortal in Camelot because of that, which means they could be part of Hook's past and also the present parallel timeline?

 

Also, do we know how many episodes the Camelot actors are signed on for? By this time last year, we knew how many episodes Elsa and Anna were going to be in so that could solve some issues with the huge cast of characters if we're only going to see them a few times.

 

Merida may be a cool addition, but they keep trying to throw all of these people into one pot. There's nothing wrong with focusing on the core cast. We brought Zelena back in, we brought Robin in, we brought Lily in. How many characters do Adam and Eddy want for their sandbox? It's like a kid's playroom full of toys and yet your child inevitably says, "I want a new one. There's nothing to play with here."

[HoodlumSheep]

Has it already been mentioned that Adam shot down the Merida= Robin Hood and Zelena's kid as well?

[Serena]

I just saw! Boo.

[Writing Wrongs]

Aw. Where did he say that?

[Serena]

Here on Twitter.

 

EDIT: Jen says in this video that Dark Swan has several wardrobe changes, for the people disappointed with the outfit we've seen.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Serena

[KingOfHearts]

 

Has it already been mentioned that Adam shot down the Merida= Robin Hood and Zelena's kid as well?

Lame. What's with A&E and saying no to anything remotely interesting?

[Rumsy4]

Hook may have a connection to Camelot: “Camelot exists in a parallel timeline,” executive producer Adam Horowitz said. “It’s existed. How we portray it and show you, it’s existed long ago, short ago and maybe in the future. It may have co-existed with [when Hook was in the Royal Navy].”

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/11/comic-con-once-upon-time-panel-merida-season-5?adsf&hootPostID=691390fd46f69ef3919b9066ed052b0c

 

He's not trolling, EW just copy and pasted what they said during the panel into their written article. Yvette mentioned something about Camelot existing during Killian's Royal Navy days, and that's how A&E responded. So without Yvette's leading question, the quote seems a bit out of place mentioning the navy part.

 

Yeah, but I think he was merely evading with that answer. I didn't take it as confirmation that Hook would have a connection to Camelot. The whole "parallel timeline" phrase is rather confusing. Parallel timeline means concurrent timeline to me. One would presume that other realms we have seen have been in existence since forever. Camelot would have existed when Killian was young. So would Wonderland, the Land Without Magic, Oz, Neverland, etc.., But Adam seems to be implying timey-wimeyness. So, who knows? 

[snarkastic]

Wasn't Arthur on a quest for the Holy Grail? Is it possible that they are immortal in Camelot because of that, which means they could be part of Hook's past and also the present parallel timeline?

 

Camelot is actually Crystal Tokyo where everyone lives for 1000 years looking 20ish. The Sailor Senshi are the new saviours.

 

My other thought on the whole timey-wimey is either Camelot moves extremely slowly compared to other lands (which wouldn't work because then you couldn't travel back and forth without missing huge chunks of time) or all portals to Camelot have a relatively fixed time point destination, no matter when or how you travel there?

[KAOS Agent]

Basically, they screwed themselves by having Lancelot show up as a contemporary to Snow White back in Season 2 and now they're just going to handwave it with some random shit.

 

From what I've read today, I'm not at all interested in Season 5. I'd probably quit watching, but I'm somewhat invested in seeing how badly and how quickly they can run this show into the ground. Regina the Saviour? Sure, she's going to give up all of her happiness to ensure everyone gets their happy ending - well, except for all those people she murdered. Fuck them. Their deaths were necessary sacrifices for her to get Henry. Emma the evilest Dark One to ever evil? She'll kill an actual villain and then be vilified for life because of it. And hey because we love new toys, we're bringing in a whole new cast of people who'll be around for ten episodes, eat up screentime that could be used for character moments and never see them again. I'm already bored.

[retrograde]

To clarify the Camelot/Hook, thing. It was this:

 

YNB: I have a Camelot question. Does this exist in the same time that Killian was in the royal navy? 

Eddie: Ahhhh. Camelot's going to exist in a... Adam, why don't you answer that because I don't know how to say it.

Adam: Camelot exists in a parallel timeline. It's existed and how we portray it you'll see it has existed long ago, short ago, in the present ago, and in the future. But yes, it may have coexisted in that time. 

(you can see it here)

 

My interpretation is that he's saying Camelot is parallel to the other worlds (ie, if Killian was in the Navy 300 years ago in Storybrooke, that was also 300 years ago for Camelot) but there will be a bunch of flashbacks -- some more far "back" than others -- and potentially one of those could be back to that same era. But his wording of the last part was very noncommittal in his tone and phrasing. He neither said "Yes, his time in the navy will be shown" nor "I mean, sure, Camelot in theory existed at the same time but that doesn't mean it will be mentioned." I would say it's still entirely up in the air, and at best you could say he didn't rule it out. I also don't interpret what he said as "the timeline in Camelot will be different." They don't need a convoluted excuse for Lancelot to be alive -- "Cora lied" is by far the simplest one. 

[Camera One]

Thanks for including the whole exchange.  I think using the phrase "concurrent timeline" as Rumsy did would have been so much more clear than what Adam said ("parallel timeline", "coexisted").  Good point that A&E's answer was more focused on "when" Camelot was rather than about Killian himself.  

[Souris]

They don't need a convoluted excuse for Lancelot to be alive -- "Cora lied" is by far the simplest one. 

 

Not that simple, as Lancelot was the one who first married Snowing by Lake Nostos, and he and Ruth tricked Snow into drinking the last of the water to cure her infertility. 

[KAOS Agent]

 

They don't need a convoluted excuse for Lancelot to be alive -- "Cora lied" is by far the simplest one.

 

Actually, Lancelot is not the problem. He was theoretically in the Coradome, so his current age and whether he's dead or not can be easily covered. It's that he left Camelot before Snowing were married, so that makes Arthur & Guinevere contemporaries of Snowing as well. That they didn't age is the issue. And if they only choose to show the Camelot crew in the past and not interacting with Storybrooke people in the present, that makes their story even more irrelevant and pointless.

[retrograde]

Ahhhhh I see what you're saying. Yeah, I hope the Camelot crew aren't just in flashbacks, but I agree it won't make all that much sense.

[pezgirl7]

Apparently Jen let it slip that Camelot is in the Enchanted Forest, so maybe it is a parallel dimension. I guess that means they can do anything with the timeline they want.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/11/comic-con-2015-once-upon-a-time-camelot

[retrograde]

Or Camelot was a kingdom that existed in the enchanted forest (or "Misthaven" or whatever) in the past and most of that stuff will be told though flashback. That might explain why Eddie stumbled with the question a bit.

[Ariah]

I really really hope the Dark Swan clip is not 100% canon. But if it is... one more reason not to watch the show. I guess the producers got tired of people saying Regina was still unredeemed for all those people she killed and decided to drop Emma down to her level.

 

Now they can say: "Look, Regina killed Graham, but she had reason.... And Emma killed that poor guy for no reason at all! How can you criticise Regina and leave out Emma?" Those writers really have no imagination.

[retrograde]

I just posted it in the "spoiler only" thread, but the showrunners confirmed that the clip was not canon. 

[RadioGirl27]

Yeah, but I think he was merely evading with that answer. I didn't take it as confirmation that Hook would have a connection to Camelot. The whole "parallel timeline" phrase is rather confusing.

This is what they do everytime someone brings Hook's past up in an interview, they always answer in a way that gives hope to the fans without actually confirming that they are going to go there. The truth is that A&E don't care about Hook's present and they care even less about his past, but they know Hook's fans do, so they always answer the questions about it in a way that gives hope said fans that someday they would get that flashback.

 

Honestly, I think they needed Camelot to be in the past, but they had already introduced Lancelot as a contemporary of Snowing, so they had to hand wave some reason.

Probably. But the truth is that if they weren't so obssessed with adding new characters, this had an easy solution: only Merlin is alive in present time (magic and all) and the rest of them appear only in a flashback, and the Lancelot that married Snow and Charming was another Lancelot, named as the Round Table Knight, the same way that Ursula was different Ursula.

[YaddaYadda]

Regarding this whole timeline thing and how Lancelot is a contemporary of Snowing's, on this show, timelines are overrated and passing time certainly is.

 

If we had met Hook in season 1 and had no clue who he was because he was dragged to Storybrooke by the curse and had two hands, we would also think he was Snowing's contemporary which we all know he isn't.  

 

We have very little information about Camelot and what we have is confusing as hell because I think A&E came up with a concept that confuses them as well (to no one's surprise!).  At this point, I'm looking at Camelot like it's a Neverland type situation.  And I'm looking at the Lancelot situation the way I look at the Hook situation.  If time moves at a slower pace in Camelot because it is surrounded with magic, the same way Neverland was, then yeah, Lancelot wouldn't have aged the same way everyone else in the Enchanted Forest did.  And like Hook or Neal, it doesn't make him 300 years old if you're from a place or lived in a place where time moves differently.

 

This show has made Snowing and Regina Emma's contemporaries which we know they're not.  And Roland and Grace are younger than Emma when they should in fact be older than her and Ashley was pregnant for 28 years and if there was no curse and Emma had stayed in the Enchanted Forest, then she would likely have grown up together and become BFFs.  And Granny should've been dead a long time ago.  And Rumple too, but he has magic, so he lives forever which basically makes him the oldest citizen in Storybrooke or likely anywhere really.  Or maybe Blue is the oldest citizen because she's a fairy and fairies don't age either and seem to live forever.  Come to think of it, dwarves are never babies and don't see to age either.  They probably die in mining accidents.

 

My point is, they can most definitely get away with Lancelot is really not that old because they can say that Camelot doesn't move at the same pace as the other places.  No one would think twice about someone named Killian Jones and his age if they didn't know that he's Captain Hook.

[Curio]

Also, do we know how many episodes the Camelot actors are signed on for? By this time last year, we knew how many episodes Elsa and Anna were going to be in so that could solve some issues with the huge cast of characters if we're only going to see them a few times.

I'm curious about this as well, because the writers now have even less episodes than they had in 4A (with the extra episode, they technically had 12 episodes to wrap up Frozen) to do this Camelot arc, and with more characters. With the Frozen arc, the only big characters they brought in were Elsa, Anna, Kristoff, and Ingrid, and the 12th episode "finale" still felt incredibly rushed. Now we only have 10 episodes to get through Arthur, Merlin, Gwen, Lancelot, and apparently Merida. And then whoever they feel like bringing in after that. I wouldn't be surprised to see this arc stretching a bit into 4B.

 

Regina the Saviour? Sure, she's going to give up all of her happiness to ensure everyone gets their happy ending - well, except for all those people she murdered. Fuck them.

 

That reminds me of something Adam & Eddy said in their recent Hot Seat interview:

Because Emma made it her goal to give Regina (Lana Parrilla) her happy ending, will Regina make it her mission to repay the favor?

KITSIS: I hope so, or else she’s really selfish.

 

But isn't one of Regina's defining character traits her selfishness? That's just truthfully how she's been written on the show, much like how Rumple is still a coward, Emma can be closed off, and Hook has temper issues. Are they just going to completely ignore that piece of characterization in Season 5 when they inevitably make her the new Savior?

[YaddaYadda]

If Regina is the new "Savior", then her place is in Storybrooke where she needs to stay as the only magic wielder and preserve the happy endings Emma brought back after Regina had taken them away.

 

Everyone goes to find Emma, Regina stays to protect the town from monsters and goblins.  

[mjgchick]

Is she really the savior or is she just doing it because of Henry? Didn't Lana say that Regina shouldn't feel guilty about what happened to Emma? I had to side eye her for that. Even so she is the Mayor and since the Sheriff is in YOLO mode she kind of has no choice especially since Snow quit. Plus she's the one with the magic. What can David really do? The town mostly listens to Snow and Emma.

Edited July 12, 2015 by mjgchick

[kili]

if Regina is the new "Savior", then her place is in Storybrooke where she needs to stay as the only magic wielder and preserve the happy endings Emma brought back after Regina had taken them away.

 

I don't want Regina to be the new savior, but I don't see why being the "Savior" would preclude her from leaving the town. It certainly never stopped Emma who went to Neverland to save her son and to New York twice (once to payback a favour to Gold and once to retrieve Robin & Lily). She also went to the Enchanted Forest twice but both times were because she accidentally got sucked into a portal.

 

For the Neverland trip, she left town with every magical user. On her first trip to New York, she left the town with the only sympathetic (at the time) magical user and with Cora running around the town. In the second trip, she once again left town with the only sympathetic magical user even though they knew Rumple was running around scheming. If she can make those trips, I don't see why Regina can't go on operation Save Emma.

 

It's like how the Captain, the doctor and the chief science officer kept going on dangerous missions off the ship on Star Trek. They aren't going to side-line Regina.

 

But, please, please, please, please, let somebody other than Regina or Rumple save the day. Throw us a twist!

Edited July 12, 2015 by kili

[Camera One]

For the Neverland tirp, she left town with every magical user. On her first trip to New York, she left the town with the only sympathetic (at the time) magical user and with Cora running around the town. In the second trip, she once again left town with the only sympathetic magical user even though they knew Rumple was running around scheming. If she can make those trips, I don't see why Regina can't go on operation Save Emma.

 

Well, apparently without Snow and Charming around, Storybrooke is always at peace.

[Curio]

Okay, seriously. Why can't everyone step up and be saviors? Why do we need one designated person?

 

Actually, you know what? Screw it. Let's go ahead and make Regina the "New Savior." But my head canon will be that everyone else just agrees to it to placate her because she needs that public acknowledgment and positive reinforcement that yes, she's good now, while the other "saviors" (Snow, Charming, Hook, Belle, Henry) are totally fine working to save Emma without a special title because they don't need that kind of title placed upon them to know they're doing something good.

[Souris]

I mean, I KNEW they'd make St. Regina the new Savior, because TS, TW, but it sucks to have one's fears confirmed. I'm sure they'll have her be WAY better at this Savior business than that last pathetic excuse for a Savior.

 

I can't find the link right now to post in the Spoilers Only thread, but in one of the interviews I watched this morning, Jen said that Emma would have a lengthy fight against the darkness before it totally consumes her. 

Edited July 12, 2015 by Souris

[kili]

Let's go ahead and make Regina the "New Savior." But my head canon will be that everyone else just agrees to it to placate her because she needs that public acknowledgment and positive reinforcement that yes, she's good now, while the other "saviors" (Snow, Charming, Hook, Belle, Henry) are totally fine working to save Emma without a special title because they don't need that kind of title placed upon them to know they're doing something good.

 

They already kind of did that multiple times already. The Fairies were told to thank Regina for rescuing them from the hat when it was Belle who did the hard work to figure out how to do it. Regina was the one singly credited with saving the day in Neverland despite the fact that there lots of people that contributed to that escape (how far would they have gotten without the Shadow to take them home?).

 

So, the show can go ahead and say she is the new savior, but I want the others to actually save the day. It will totally fit with how Emma was the "Savior" in 3B, but it was Regina who did everything. The "Savior" is pretty much the least likely person to actually do the saving.