Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[YaddaYadda]

I really, really loved Brave and Merida falls into that category of kickass Disney princesses, but she fits nowhere in Camelot or with whatever is happening with Emma.

 

I thought they'd change things up and name Robin and Zelena's kid Merida because red hair and archery.

 

Snow's doing the voice over for the Emma promo?  Is there hope that she will have an actual role in all of this?

[MaiLuna]

There's a good chance Merida could be Evanna. Once loves a crazy family tree. I heard Ruby's coming back (I don't know for how long), which makes me happy.

Nah, a redhead archer? Merida is totally Robin and Zelena's lovechild! :P

[Souris]

I felt utterly sick reading about Emma crushing the man's heart. Man: "They told me you were a monster." Emma: "Only on the inside." I don't want to watch that. I just don't!

 

I was able to watch a livestream. JMo said that Emma would have to learn how to overcome the darkness, not just repress it like she has been doing.

 

YNB talked about Emma sacrificing herself for Regina. JMo said that it was for the whole town, but she'd have done it just for Regina, too.

 

So they're getting around the hinky Lancelot timeline by saying that Camelot is in a parallel universe -- past, present, maybe future.

 

I groan at Merida being in S5! Jesus wept! Too many guest stars!!! I guess this means that Camelot will be just 5A.

[Curio]

Snow's doing the voice over for the Emma promo? Is there hope that she will have an actual role in all of this?

 

Nah, it's just their way of teasing us that Snow will be really concerned for the first episode, and then the Charmings will take their mandatory backseats to the Camelot arc and Rumple and Regina's plots for the rest of the season.

[CatMack]

Merida has already been cast apparently.  Adam announced actress Amy Manson on twitter.  

[HoodlumSheep]

I hope Snow gets to be involved. So if Camelot is in a parallel universe, what's that supposed to mean exactly? That we'll get something like the Frozen flashbacks (which involved lots of time-skipping)?

The Dark Swan Rises? they must have been inspired by Batman. The problem with Merida being Zelena's and Robin's kid is that that would mean more time travel shenanigans.

[KingOfHearts]

 

The Evanna casting call was totally a misdirect for Merida, wasn't it?

So Merida and Peter Pan hooked up and bore Rumplestiltskin? What is wrong with this show.

 

 

So if Camelot is in a parallel universe, what's that supposed to mean exactly?

It'll probably make as much as sense as the "realms of story" ideal.

 

The Snow voiceover teaser was full of crap. They're making it out to be that Emma became the Dark One because she was tempted by darkness, which isn't true at all. In fact, all the buildup in 4B about Emma going evil had no purpose. Also, Snow is not the go-to example of a character who was tempted by the darkness and lived in it. That would be Regina or Rumple.

 

I did, however, like the fact the Snow actually showed compassion toward her daughter. You don't get that much caring in the actual show.

Edited July 11, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

So I guess the casting call for Rumple's mom was really for Merida. Does that mean his mom is Merida??? I hate to think that Merida married Malcolm/Pan.

[RadioGirl27]

I hope that the scene with Emma crushing a heart is just for the Comic Con and not something from the actual show, but I'm not holding my breath. Of course they are going to have her doing terrible things. What's going to be next? The sex slave?

And I love how, just after saying that they are going to focus in the core character, the just announce another guest/recurring character.

[Serena]

Merida and Dark Swan videos.

Merida looks super pretty and Dark Swan looks creepy! I'm excited. She's wearing the outfit from the photos.

[YaddaYadda]

So I guess the casting call for Rumple's mom was really for Merida. Does that mean his mom is Merida??? I hate to think that Merida married Malcolm/Pan.

 

I wanna say that Merida wouldn't settle for someone as weak as Malcolm, but honestly, with this show, who knows!

[Emma]

I really hate that clip of Emma crushing that mans heart. Screw you show.

Merida is not only beautiful but she looks like a force of nature. Great teaser clip of her.

[Writing Wrongs]

That's the same jailer Rumple had.

 

That Merida one kind of made me cringe. It does seem odd that they add her just when Robin and Zelena are having a kid.

[Serena]

And Eddie just said that Cameron is an alternative universe in the "past, present, future" - could Merida come from the future? Who knows.

However, I don't think she's Rumple's mother. Because they wouldn't spoil a twist like that in a casting call. 

[Curio]

So Merida and Peter Pan hooked up and bore Rumplestiltskin? What is wrong with this show.

 

I think once you cross the "Robin Hood had non-consensual sex with the Wicked Witch and now has to raise that baby with the Evil Queen" threshold, you can't ask what's wrong with the show anymore...

[CatMack]

Officially not loving the Dark Swan look at all.  I was iffy on the photos because I couldn't tell if it was just the horrible lighting, but no, her makeup is just terrible.  Rumple's Dark One look is so over the top he doesn't look entirely human any more.  Dark Swan just looks like normal makeup but with really awful 90s glitter everywhere and terrible looking frosted eyebrows.  It's distracting, not transforming.  I could care less about the outfit to be honest, because I barely notice it when I can't stop fixating on how stupid her face looks.  

[Souris]

I thought the sparkly makeup & powdered eyebrows on DarkEmma looked cheesy & cheap as hell. She looks like she wandered in from the Frozen arc.

 

I hate this.

[CatMack]

Like seriously, I know I should focus more on the performance, but the more I look at the makeup the stupider it gets.  Why?  Why does taking on the Darkness and becomming the Dark One make Emma's eyebrows frosted?  Rumple looking almost scaley, making him look otherwordly, like the Darkness has twisted him into something barely human, that makes sense from a storytelling standpoint, not just a 'looks cool' standpoint.  Emma's transformation?  It's like they wanted to make sure she was still pretty and didn't look too monstrous, so they couldn't do anything as elaborate as Rumple's Dark One, so from a storytelling standpoint the visual transformation falls flat and makes no sense, but it also just looks terrible, so it fails from a 'looks cool' standpoint too.  There's just no level on which this look works.  

[Rumsy4]

I am disturbed that they made an extremely white-looking Emma crush a black guy's heart as her first foray into evil. I'm hoping this ends up being a dream-sequence, rather than a reality. That would go towards depicting the struggle Emma is feeling to give in to Darkness. And yeah--the makeover looks silly. Hope it will look better once they start the actual filming for S5. This scene was shot while filming for S4.

 

The voice over with Snow in the trailer was good, but I agree that it completely negates the fact that Emma took on the Darkness as an act of sacrifice. 

Edited July 11, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Emma]

Could Emma get more glittery as she gets more evil? Otherwise it is a cheap looking job.

[KingOfHearts]

 

It's distracting, not transforming.

They should have either gone crazy with the sparkly imp look or dropped the glitter altogether.

 

 

I'm hoping this ends up being a dream-sequence, rather than a reality.

I wouldn't take ComicCon teasers as canon. How could she be in Rumplestiltskin's cell with the exact same warden? 

 

I'm also tired of the heart-ripping. It's not as gruesome or vile as it used to be. That should have stayed as Regina/Cora staple. In Heart of Gold, we find out you don't even need to do that to kill someone. Just wave your hand and they turn to dust!

 

 

And Eddie just said that Cameron is an alternative universe in the "past, present, future" - could Merida come from the future? Who knows.

Red hair. Rad archery skills. Yeah, totally not Robin and Zelena's daughter. It would be so messed up if she was also Rumple's mother. 3B would become incesty with Zelena/Rumple. She'd be in love with her own grandson.

Edited July 11, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

I really hope Merida is not Rumple's mother, or Zelena's daughter. I know they like to twist the original stories, but that would be too much, and I know she is not Elsa but I don't think Disney would let them change her story so much.

But, really, I don't care if she is Rumple's mother, Zelena's baby or someone who was living in Storybrooke all this time, she is just another guest/recurring character that is going to take screentime from Hook, Snow, Charming and Belle.

[sharky]

Could Emma get more glittery as she gets more evil? Otherwise it is a cheap looking job.

I thought the same thing. It would be interesting to see if we can compare to Rumple right after he became the Dark One.

[Souris]

I cannot get over how HORRIBLE that DarkSwan makeup is. Seriously, I think I saw that same makeup on a little girl at the summer solstice fairy faire last year.

[Curio]

It's like they wanted to make sure she was still pretty and didn't look too monstrous, so they couldn't do anything as elaborate as Rumple's Dark One, so from a storytelling standpoint the visual transformation falls flat and makes no sense

 

I'll try and defend the makeup decision—I think they're making Emma look frosty and a bit of an ice queen because the darkness takes on the worst personality traits of its owner, and Emma can sometimes be cold and distant when she's stressed or angry. So it kind of makes storytelling sense. But I can't speak to the quality of the makeup...

[Serena]

I don't think we have to worry about the quality of the make up? It's been shot in April, super quick before Jen went on hiatus, she's wearing some of Jen's personal rings and it's not gonna be in the show as a "real" thing. I doubt it'll air at all, but if it does, it'll be a dream/nightmare sequence.

[CatMack]

I'll try and defend the makeup decision—I think they're making Emma look frosty and a bit of an ice queen because the darkness takes on the worst personality traits of its owner, and Emma can sometimes be cold and distant when she's stressed or angry. So it kind of makes storytelling sense. But I can't speak to the quality of the makeup...

 

OK, but if being the Dark One exaggerates and twists your worst personality trait in a visible way, what was Rumple's look supposed to be representing?  They've been pretty clear that his worst trait is his cowardice, how does his look represent that?  

[Curio]

OK, but if being the Dark One exaggerates and twists your worst personality trait in a visible way, what was Rumple's look supposed to be representing? They've been pretty clear that his worst trait is his cowardice, how does his look represent that?  

 

I guess you could say the lizard-esque look for Rumple didn't start visually manifesting itself until he became more dastardly as the Dark One. He may have started off looking more like a normal person, but the more sly and devious he became, his outside appearance began to match his inside appearance.

 

Hopefully this is something the writers actually touch on this season instead of us continually having to create loopholes in our heads.

[sharky]

OK, after repeated viewing, I kind of like the Evil Diamond Emma concept. She's wearing a ring shaped like a diamond, the heart crumbles in her hand almost into diamonds -- and she barely touches it because her magic is so strong. And there are diamonds on her nails. :) If they can just bring the makeup up to par a little...

[LizaD]

Why do people think Merida is Zelena's kid? The red hair and archery is pretty flimsy. Zelena's not Scottish nor is Robin. Besides Merida's parents were featured in the movie. I don't think they've blatantly changed things like that with Disney property. They fill in the unknown stuff with their own crap but not outright change characters.

 

I thought it'd be obvious Merida=Rump's mom.  The casting call, A&E said we'll see what they're doing with Rump's mom in the premiere, there was that first day filming with peasant Rump, mystery female guest and Emma and they made Rump Scottish in S3. But while I can sorta see her with Peter Pan, Merida hooking up with Malcom is pretty hard to swallow. I also still maintain that Merida was the first DO and she offered herself up as sacrifice. Does Robert saying Gold's not doing much and in a coma mean we'll get an AU world with all the ex-DO's interacting? Rump won't know what his mom looks like will he? It'll be Dark Ones Anonymous.

[sharky]

I know some people think she's Rumple's mom because of the casting, but I can't buy it. Malcolm was such a meh kind of guy. Why would a strong woman like Merida procreate with someone like that?

[Serena]

Why do people think Merida is Zelena's kid? The red hair and archery is pretty flimsy. Zelena's not Scottish nor is Robin. Besides Merida's parents were featured in the movie. I don't think they've blatantly changed things like that with Disney property. They fill in the unknown stuff with their own crap but not outright change characters.

 

I thought it'd be obvious Merida=Rump's mom.  The casting call, A&E said we'll see what they're doing with Rump's mom in the premiere, there was that first day filming with peasant Rump, mystery female guest and Emma and they made Rump Scottish in S3. But while I can sorta see her with Peter Pan, Merida hooking up with Malcom is pretty hard to swallow. I also still maintain that Merida was the first DO and she offered herself up as sacrifice. Does Robert saying Gold's not doing much and in a coma mean we'll get an AU world with all the ex-DO's interacting? Rump won't know what his mom looks like will he? It'll be Dark Ones Anonymous.

I mean, if we're talking "they're totally changing characters", there's not much differece between "her parents are different" and "she hooks up with Peter Pan and gives birth to Rumple". I think the latter is more freaky and more something Disney could possibly veto. Especially because it was a big deal that she didn't have a love interest in the movie.

 

I'm not saying she HAS to be their daughter. But her two main characteristics are red hair and archery. Two people whose main characteristics are red hair (and, okay, admittedly, green skin) and archery are having a baby. It's a VERY weird coincidence.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Serena

[mjgchick]

I wanna say that Merida wouldn't settle for someone as weak as Malcolm, but honestly, with this show, who knows!

The Stilskin men for whatever reason we're able to get with all these strong women...and Belle and I'm still wondering how.

As for Dark Swan, Emma looks like she shaved both her head and her eyebrows. Not here for Emma taking some dudes heart for shits and giggles. Only on this show where you do something amazing you end up becoming evil.

[CatMack]

I think Jen's performance was great, I liked the diamond heart dissolve effect, and conceptually I get what you guys are saying about taking her in more of an ice queen direction.  But I maintain that as executed the looks is so bad it took me out of the moment completely.  It wasn't until I read your thoughts on that stuff and rewatched the scene a few more times that I really noticed any of it.  The first time I watched literally all I could think was "what am I even looking at who approved this".  

 

Maybe this isn't the final look.  Maybe it will progress as time goes on.  But until we see otherwise all I can judge it on is what it looks like now, and that is absolutely awful.  Literally just typing in "dark ice queen makeup" into google nets a whole bunch of photos, ranging from subtle to extreme, that are more transformative and interesting than this look.  

Edited July 11, 2015 by CatMack

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm not saying she HAS to be their daughter. But her two main characteristics are red hair and archery. Two people whose main characteristics are red hair (and, okay, admittedly, green skin) and archery are having a baby. It's a VERY weird coincidence.

It's also possible she came to Camelot as a baby, then got raised by her parents in the movie. A&E love "parallels" and you know they'd repeat Zelena and Emma. It would really throw a wrench into Merida's psyche when she finds out that she has another mother who's evil, judging from the moral lesson in the film.

 

Social media users are already complaining that Merida isn't a traditional fairy tale character. I think she fits fine. I was worried before 4A when they were going to use contemporary icons, but they turned out to easily be the best part of the arc. She's still very much in theme, imo.

Edited July 11, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

Social media users are already complaining that Merida isn't a traditional fairy tale character. I think she fits fine. I was worried before 4A when they were going to use contemporary icons, but they turned out to easily be the best part of the arc.

 

I think Merida fits into the show a lot better than the Frozen people do. And agreed—Elsa and Anna ended up being some of the best parts of 4A, so I'm not worried about Merida at all.

 

I'm curious if Merida is just going to be a one-off character like Rapunzel or a multiple-arc character. Looks like I have to watch Brave now...

[InsertWordHere]

I don't think we have to worry about the quality of the make up? It's been shot in April, super quick before Jen went on hiatus, she's wearing some of Jen's personal rings and it's not gonna be in the show as a "real" thing. I doubt it'll air at all, but if it does, it'll be a dream/nightmare sequence.

ITA. Just look at the comic con preview we got of Hook before Season 2. Not only did he show up in the Enchanted Forest with a completely different look, he also never went to Storybrooke and stole his hook from Gold's shop. 

[YaddaYadda]

Speculation time (if Chrome doesn't crap up on me again)

 

If Emma is in Rumple's cell as she seems to be then I'm having some serious doubts that the heart crushing isn't part of a dream sequence.  Rumple was in that cell because he wanted to be there.  He had the squid ink that he needed to get out, but he didn't.

 

If as A&E say that Emma's first thoughts or words is to take the darkness out of her then I can't see her doing what that "preview" showed.  Plus we don't even know that it will even be part of the first episode (there could be some variance of it at least).

 

If Emma, the new powerful Dark One is in the Enchanted Forest, in Rumple's cell that was designed so that he could not escape, then I'm willing to bet that the reason she's even there in the first place is because she wanted to be there as a way to protect herself and innocent lives from her darkness.

 

And it's a good way to introduce Merida if anything.  She could be approached by Emma about being locked up or Emma's rescuers about where they might be able to find her.

 

I guess the Camelot arc really starts once everyone gets to the Enchanted Forest to get Emma and then they set for Camelot.

[RadioGirl27]

If Camelot is at the same time in the past, present and future then I want, no, I demand for Liam Jones to be alive in Camelot. That way Hook could have someone to spend time in Offscreen Ville who would love him and enjoy his company.

[retrograde]

This from the EW interview...

 

What can you tell us about Emma (Jennifer Morrison) as the Dark One? What are her powers like and has she gone full on evil?
EDWARD KITSIS: The right answer is you’re going to see both. We intend to show you how she would become dark and what would happen if she was.
HOROWITZ: It’s a slow burn as opposed to all of a sudden.

... makes me think that clip today was a more hypothetical thing than how the character will actually be in episode one.

[LizaD]

 

I mean, if we're talking "they're totally changing characters", there's not much differece between "her parents are different" and "she hooks up with Peter Pan and gives birth to Rumple". I think the latter is more freaky

 

I think they're both equally freaky considering the "changing her parents" is changing it to Zelena and Robin Hood, but one is changing canon, the other is expanding canon into their own freaky soap opera fanfiction which is what they've been doing all along. Semantics?

 

 

Two people whose main characteristics are red hair (and, okay, admittedly, green skin) and archery are having a baby. It's a VERY weird coincidence.

 

Yeah but it'd be a weird coincidence to have Rump's mom casting call be pretty close to a Merida description and put those 2 women onscreen at the same time too. Unless they're twins or sisters? I just don't think future Zelena and Robin's kid who happens to be Merida, interacting with peasant Rump and normal looking Emma in some weird verse EF makes any sense. Rump's mom at this point doesn't make a lot of sense either but at least there's that DO common thread between Rump and Emma now.

 

 

when they were going to use contemporary icons, but they turned out to easily be the best part of the arc.

 

Well let's not forget Disney sent in their people for Frozen. I'm not sure they're going to bother for Brave.

Edited July 11, 2015 by LizaD

[daxx]

This from the EW interview...

 

... makes me think that clip today was a more hypothetical thing than how the character will actually be in episode one.

If it is shown in canon at all and not just a promo like the Capt Hook and Queens of Darkness one then it could be a dream sequence. Emma having a nightmare or vision of how bad things could get.

[Watt]

Maybe EF Dark Swan is a dream thing. She has them constantly and has to fight them because they feel good, and terrible,all at the same time. Kind of like a "this is what could happen"

[MaiLuna]

I'm 95% sure that Dark Swan clip is just promotional, like the Ariel clip from a couple of years ago.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm 95% sure that Dark Swan clip is just promotional, like the Ariel clip from a couple of years ago.

 

 

I know we don't put much stock in what the writers say because well fool me once and however the saying goes, but going from a slow burn of Emma going into the whole darkness vs crushing the heart of some servant, that's like going from 0 to 100.

 

I guess we shall see what happens.  I actually enjoyed the two promos. 

 

Remember that scene when Emma was locked up in Rumple's cell and Hook was taunting her with the dried up magic bean and those awful things he told her?

[Mari]

I know we don't put much stock in what the writers say because well fool me once and however the saying goes, but going from a slow burn of Emma going into the whole darkness vs crushing the heart of some servant, that's like going from 0 to 100.

Especially since she seemed to be doing it just for entertainment--it didn't seem to be because he was being cruel, or as part of an escape plan.  

[Serena]

Merida is not Rumple's mom and we actually won't be seeing Rumple's mom, according to NA. They got us!

[KingOfHearts]

"The incarnation of Rumple this time around is slightly different," Robert Carlyle said. "He’s lost his mantle as the Dark One, but that’s not to say he doesn’t have that trickery about him. He still has that."

 

It sounds like there's no memory loss. All I can imagine is Rumpbelle angst and Rumple attempting to get his power back. The writers will throw in a short coma to leave the audience in "suspense".

 

 

Merida is not Rumple's mom and we actually won't be seeing Rumple's mom, according to NA. They got us!

When you read the casting call, it fits her to a tee. (Besides the red herring.) They really did get us!

Edited July 11, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[pezgirl7]

The Dark Swan clip doesn't match at all with what Adam and Eddy said about Emma trying to fight the darkness. I think they just filmed it to get people talking.

The EW Q&A made it sound like the Camelot characters did exist when Hook was in the royal navy, so maybe will get some more Killian and Liam flashbacks! I thought maybe King Arthur could be the king who wanted the dream shade, but the royal navy uniforms don't seem like something that would be from Camelot.

Edited July 11, 2015 by pezgirl7

[Curio]

Lana Parrilla thinks Regina will take on the role of the savior this next season. #SDCC #OUAT https://instagram.com/p/5AsSq4QFp1/

 

Yes, Lana. You and every viewer thinks that, because it's pretty much the most obvious choice to go with knowing TS;TW.

 

And thank god Merida isn't Rumple's mother. So does that mean we won't be seeing his mother at all?

 

I also didn't get the sense that we'd actually see Killian's Royal Navy days. I think Yvette was just fishing for a comment with that question, so even though we might get flashbacks of Camelot circa 300 B.S. (Before Swan), we won't actually see Killian's world during 300 B.S. If that makes sense.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Curio