Unsolved Mysteries - General Discussion

[BetyBee]

Rey Rivera - I agree with those who think his "friend" is in on his murder. I have no idea how he actually died or what the note taped behind his computer is about. It seems like something very strange was happening at the company.

Patrice Endres - I agree that Rob Endres is a creep! I don't understand why Patrice married him. It does sound as if he pretended to be nice for a year, then couldn't hide his true, horrid self anymore. So why did she stay with him? I have to think it was money. Maybe he fronted the money for her own salon and she felt trapped? The way he talked about the bones being laid out, walking around with her skull, sleeping with her cremains, that someone might have kept her for a "toy" for a few days, that they might have used a wheelbarrow to transport her body....it was all too creepy for words. I think he's responsible for her death.

Alonzo's story was just so sad and senseless. His friends should have looked out for him. The police did a horrible job of investigating. The authorities were so heartless in their dealings with the family. I'm happy to hear the FBI is still investigating and offering a reward. That may bring someone forward from that party. Some people do know what happened. 

I think Dupont de Ligonnès probably died from exposure or something during his escape. Maybe he'll be like John List and be found leading a life far from France, but it's just as likely that he has met his demise one way or another.

The alien story was fun and I think the "abducted" people truly believe what they are saying, but I think that once the DJ started talking about it on the air,  that's when more stories sprang up about that night. You don't seem to hear much about alien abductions any more, so I feel it's like the mania surrounding stories like McMartin preschool - a kind of hysteria. 

That's all I've seen so far. I'm enjoying the show and I'm glad we have a place to discuss it!

[CrazyInAlabama]

Another family annihilator was Bradford Bishop.   He was a State Department employee, went home one day, and murdered his family, his wife, his mother, and his three sons.   He found out he wasn't going to be promoted, went home, and killed his family, he then drove the family station wagon to a swamp near Columbia, NC, where he tried to burn the bodies. .     He had the bodies in the car, the family dog, and some claim there was a woman with him.    Then a neighbor was suspicious about the family, called police, and the crime scene was discovered.    The murdered family members were identified with dental records.   Police found the station wagon abandoned near the Great Smokey Mountain National Park a couple of weeks later.    The theory is that he joined the many hikers on the Appalachian Trail.     Within the next few years, there were several credible sightings of him, in Europe (Sweden, Italy, and Switzerland), all were by people that knew him well from work, and one was a former neighbor.   

He would be 81 now, and the FBI theorizes he's living in the U.S. under another identity.   Personally, I bet he's still in Europe, probably Eastern Europe, where buying another identity would have been easy as the Soviet Bloc collapsed.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradford_Bishop

Over the years, there have been stories about this on Unsolved Mysteries, John Walsh featured it, and I'm sure a lot of other shows.      I have always been fascinated by this case, because I lived in D.C. when it happened, and there was a lot of coverage.   

Edited July 5, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[Guest]

What kind of psychopaths would Porter Stansbury hire that, after all these years, would still refuse to talk to police about the events of that night? Surely some -- if not all -- of them are no longer working there. Why aren't they all, "Fuck THAT guy?" and taking themselves to the police department? 

Speaking of psychos, Sandy Klemp needs to be in prison, like, yesterday. 

Rob Endres? My god. That man was like an alibi factory. "I couldn't have done it! Too far away! Could never have driven there and killed here then drove back!" And the reassembling of the bones in the funeral home? Dear god. I thought it was quite telling that he locked out Colt .45 (or whatever dumb gun-themed name Sandy's son had) the second they found her body. 

And I believe 100% what the UFO people had to say. Those were some credible, normal people who had something terrible happen to them. I don't know what it was any more than they do but they definitely had experiences that were not of this world. 

[bilgistic]

Rob Endres's "alibi" was like O.J. Simpson's book If I Did It.

[CrystalBlue]

Given the fact that Pistol didn't name himself and he is just a normal young man who had something terrible happen to him (losing his mother to murder, not just getting locked out of the house), I don't see the need to make fun of his name.  Rappers have unusual names too.  Does anyone remember Remington Steele?

[methodwriter85]

Getting back into that party kid mindset, I think Alonzo was intent on staying at the party because he had a girl that seemed to be interested in him. I think Justin and Adam left because they were not vibing with any of the girls at that party, and when Adam left, he just assumed he couldn't find Alonzo because he was off hooking up with that girl. (Maybe in her car?) I think Alonzo was in the process of hooking up with the girl when he got jumped, possibly by the ex-boyfriend or unreciprocated love interest as well as some cronies. I think Alonzo tried to run, explaining his lost shoes and hat. They caught up with him, and beat him to death. They hid his body for a bit, intimidated the girl to make sure she kept her mouth shut, and then dumped the body a month later.

Edited July 6, 2020 by methodwriter85

[blixie]

Quote

The friends who participated in the documentary seemed genuine IMO. Two of the friends left the party early. Justin whom Alonzo caught a ride with to the party was the one who got lost going for cigarettes and never returned to the party. What I find odd about his story was that it was stated that the town where the party was held had nothing, not even a grocery store. So where was he going to go buy cigarettes?

Also Justin stated that when he left the party Alonzo was still having a great time and that the vibe was good.

Yeah I don't think he's lying he seemed genuinely torn up by having left Alonzo behind, but I do think that part of his being torn up is that he hasn't come to grips with is that the party was full of racists, that he didn't notice cause PRIVILEGE, which even the other guy said he knew and I suspect is why he bugged out, he said the whole hick country music shitkicker party wasn't their groups scene. My niece was left by a huge group of friends in a college town of a college she didn't go to while wasted drunk, she got beat up,  and I was hella HELLA pissed but only at the one friend I felt shouldn't have passed the buck to other less loyal friends to "watch" her at the bar. I do wonder why Justin didn't speak directly to Adam, telephone isn't a great way to make sure your black friend in a Sundown Town makes it out alive. Having said that I suspect whoever snatched Alonzo did so before Adam/this other guy left. But when you are drunk you want to do literally the easiest thing and the easiest thing was tell yourself he found a way home with someone else. 

[ByaNose]

Just watched the Rey episode. Can someone tell me what contact did Rey’s wife & Porter have from say the night he disappeared, was found & his funeral? I may have missed it but did he play the supportive best friend or dump her like a bad habit? Then he clams up. Obviously, something was going on for him not to be helpful. My first thought when I saw the view from the rooftop & skylights was the movie called The Game with Michael Douglas. I thought the movie was dumb but it was the first thing I thought of. I watched it late so I didn’t get to binge the rest of the episodes. I still have to work in the a.m.

[truthaboutluv]

On 7/5/2020 at 9:22 AM, Giant Misfit said:

Dear god. I thought it was quite telling that he locked out Colt .45 (or whatever dumb gun-themed name Sandy's son had) the second they found her body. 

It was actually worse than that. He locked him out literally a day after Patrice went missing, when there was no proof yet that she was dead and definitely never coming back. What man that supposedly loved a woman so much, changes the locks literally a day after she goes missing, as if he's certain she's never coming back. Like shouldn't his focus had been on finding his wife?

 

On 7/7/2020 at 12:45 AM, ByaNose said:

Just watched the Rey episode. Can someone tell me what contact did Rey’s wife & Porter have from say the night he disappeared, was found & his funeral? I may have missed it but did he play the supportive best friend or dump her like a bad habit? Then he clams up.

If I remember correctly it was the first one. He was the one who put up the $1000 for information right after Rey went missing and it was some of the co-workers I believe that found the hole. Because the company did organize search parties. But after Rey's body was found and especially after the police started inquiring about the call to Rey that clearly came from the company, Porter clammed up and the gag order went on everyone working at the company.

Edited July 12, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[LakeGal]

I read the show said they have already received some credible tips for the Rey and Alonzo cases.  They are hoping as more people watch they will get more tips.  It would be great if they could solve some of these cases.

[luna1122]

8 hours ago, ByaNose said:

Just watched the Rey episode. Can someone tell me what contact did Rey’s wife & Porter have from say the night he disappeared, was found & his funeral? I may have missed it but did he play the supportive best friend or dump her like a bad habit? Then he clams up. Obviously, something was going on for him not to be helpful. My first thought when I saw the view from the rooftop & skylights was the movie called The Game with Michael Douglas. I thought the movie was dumb but it was the first thing I thought of. I watched it late so I didn’t get to binge the rest of the episodes. I still have to work in the a.m.

The Game was one of the movies listed on that cryptic weird hidden note Rey left.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The issue I have with Rob Endres killing his wife is that he seems smarter than that. (...) It looks more like a chance opportunist than anything planned out. Someone was watching her and noticed she was alone and grabbed her. For that reason I like the local serial killers better as suspects. The Georgia plates to fit better with this. I wonder if even it was some whackjob who was just driving through stumbled across her.

The argument against someone random is that Patrice had been acting out of sorts all morning long. All her customers reported that she was short with them or distracted and not her usual self. So something had happened that morning to put her in a mood, and I think it's likely a fight or even a threat from her husband. 

Also? Rob Endres has all the classic, tell-tale signs of a control freak. The friends and son all reported how possessive he was and hovered over her when she had friends over. He didn't want her having relationships with anyone else but him. I agree with Pistol, there's no way he would have tolerated the idea of her being with someone else if they divorced. 

Plus one of the two serial killers they interviewed claimed he had dumped her in the river. Her remains were found in the woods, nowhere near the river as far as I can tell.

Quote

Though he was an aristocrat it sounded like his family’s legacy had been in ruins for a while, but since he did have his family name and that title he was able to keep up appearances. I’m sure both helped him get credit and loans etc. that helped keep his life of affluence going.

There are plenty of people in Europe who have titles but are flat broke. That doesn't get you a cup of coffee anymore let alone a loan from a bank. They want collateral like everyone else. It just doesn't sound like Xavier had the funds to run off and create a new life for himself. I'm in the camp that he offed himself somewhere and the body just hasn't been found yet.

RE: Rey Rivera, I hate to say it but I think he may have had some mental issues that may or may not have had something to do with his death. That weird little note taped up and hidden was just damn bizarre and there's no way to rationalize it beyond "he was weird." 

[CrystalBlue]

29 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The argument against someone random is that Patrice had been acting out of sorts all morning long. All her customers reported that she was short with them or distracted and not her usual self. So something had happened that morning to put her in a mood, and I think it's likely a fight or even a threat from her husband. 

Also? Rob Endres has all the classic, tell-tale signs of a control freak. The friends and son all reported how possessive he was and hovered over her when she had friends over. He didn't want her having relationships with anyone else but him. I agree with Pistol, there's no way he would have tolerated the idea of her being with someone else if they divorced. 

Plus one of the two serial killers they interviewed claimed he had dumped her in the river. Her remains were found in the woods, nowhere near the river as far as I can tell.

There are plenty of people in Europe who have titles but are flat broke. That doesn't get you a cup of coffee anymore let alone a loan from a bank. They want collateral like everyone else. It just doesn't sound like Xavier had the funds to run off and create a new life for himself. I'm in the camp that he offed himself somewhere and the body just hasn't been found yet.

RE: Rey Rivera, I hate to say it but I think he may have had some mental issues that may or may not have had something to do with his death. That weird little note taped up and hidden was just damn bizarre and there's no way to rationalize it beyond "he was weird." 

I agree with what you say in the first two paragraphs, but Rey Rivera's weird note might have made perfect sense to him.  It was probably for his eyes only and we just don't understand it.

[sashayshante]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

RE: Rey Rivera, I hate to say it but I think he may have had some mental issues that may or may not have had something to do with his death. That weird little note taped up and hidden was just damn bizarre and there's no way to rationalize it beyond "he was weird." 

I think the note was a red herring. Many screen writers have chimed in to say Rey's note looked like what they call a tone sheet. It's just a bunch of nonsensical story ideas dumped out on paper.

There's a great thread on Reddit that offers some extra insights and findings from the author of a book about the case.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnsolvedMysteries/comments/hldhjz/rey_rivera_mystery_on_the_rooftop_missing_details/

 

[iMonrey]

Alonzo's story had some pieces missing. First, one of the friends interviewed - the one that left to get cigarettes - said he phoned Adam and asked him to drive Alonzo home. But Adam never did for some reason. The show never interviews Adam directly or gets this straightened out.

Second, the same friend and, apparently more than one person at that party saw Alonzo get into it with some other party guest. Surely someone was able to identify that person(s) and surely the police interviewed them? They never addressed this either. It seems obvious whoever he got into a fight with at the party would be Suspect No. 1. 

Of the first four cases this seems like the most likely to be cracked. There's bound to be multiple people who know what happened, unlike what happened to Patrice or Xavier or even Rey.

Edited July 7, 2020 by iMonrey

[Cheezwiz]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Of the first four cases this seems like the most likely to be cracked. There's bound to be multiple people who know what happened, unlike what happened to Patrice or Xavier or even Rey.

I have no doubt that half the population of that shitty little town probably knows exactly what happened. The problem is compelling them to talk, especially when the police are completely indifferent and uninterested in pursuing the case - which is closed as far as they're concerned. i felt terrible for Alonzo's family - how frustrating, feeling absolutely no one was on their side.

[Ellaria]

On 7/2/2020 at 5:02 AM, Annber03 said:

Ray Rivera - Yeeeeeeeah, I'm definitely thinking they need to look closer at that friend of his, too...That kind of fall, the sort that leads to a hole in the roof and a body crashing through, from that kind of height? That would take a hell of a lot of force. Could one person jumping of their own accord cause that much force? I dunno. 

The fact that his glasses and phone weren't broken just adds to the doubt about it being a suicide. Even if he removed them before jumping, that still doesn't explain how they wound up there later. 

Agree...there is something strange about Porter and his company all going into lawyered-up silence. Sure, the company had known issues with the SEC and perhaps more issues that had not yet been discovered. While that could be a reason to refuse to talk with police, it’s a rather cold-hearted, ruthless move from his buddy Porter. Regardless, if Porter is involved, there is a lot of missing information.

There is still no plausible explanation for how Ray got to that roof and how he went off. The various trajectories don’t quite make sense, as they showed. I’m more inclined to think that he was thrown off the roof. However, as they indicated, he was a big, strong guy. One man could not have tossed him off. And, if so, why leave the glasses and phone nearby practically untouched?

On 7/2/2020 at 8:09 PM, sashayshante said:

I think there's a ton of stuff being attributed to his death that have nothing to do with it, namely the missing money clip, the disconnected cameras, etc. I don't think either had anything to do with Rey's death. That said, I absolutely think he was lured to that garage, beaten and murdered. That hole was the result of a straight drop at a high velocity. The jumping theory has been debunked for the most part. I think he was dropped from a helicopter (his friend had access to one) and his phone, glasses and flip-flops were dumped on the roof

The stuff like the money clip, disconnected cameras, etc are mentioned not because they “had anything to do with his death” but because they are odd. 

Where is his money clip? Was he robbed at some point? His phone and glasses were discovered in relatively good shape and were thought to have been left at the scene. Wouldn’t that imply that other people were involved? The money clip may been perceived to have value and was taken by someone at some point.

The disconnected cameras have nothing to do with the commission of the crime - assuming that it wasn’t suicide - but rather an unfortunate circumstance that possibly prevents them from accessing further information. Also, the fact that it would have been difficult to access that roof or the ledge makes the case even more curious. How did he get up there?

Edited July 8, 2020 by Ellaria Sand

[WendyCR72]

Just watched the episode about that poor hairdresser, Patrice Endres. I know there were other killers suspected, one with the confession, that were not ruled out. But my GOD, her husband was CREEPY AF. Wanting her REMAINS to be displayed? Picking up the skull and talking to it? Locking her beloved teenage son out of HIS own house right after her death?! Sleeping with her ASHES?! And saying he would never share the ashes, "particularly with Pistol"? FUCK HIM. And why didn't the SON have first rights to her remains? Or her father?

Even with his time stamps and all of his other verbal diarrhea, I don't find it hard to imagine that he had some involvement. I also doubt it was coincidental that TWO separate friends of hers told the cops the same thing: To look at Rob.

Considering the jealousy he displayed because she dared to love her own damned son and his wacko statements, I still do not discount - even if he did not do the actual murder - that he had Patrice killed. Because a jealous guy like that typically does not take rejection well. And I seriously doubt the intent to divorce him was "new information", as he put it.

This guy is almost as creepy to me as Jule Caylor in the original series.

As for poor Pistol Black, I hope he has found a measure of peace somehow. Thankful that he still had his father (and grandfather).

But Rob is a lunatic. And I have zero doubt that he had some sort of involvement.

[Scarlett45]

On 7/5/2020 at 5:45 PM, methodwriter85 said:

Getting back into that party kid mindset, I think Alonzo was intent on staying at the party because he had a girl that seemed to be interested in him. I think Justin and Adam left because they were not vibing with any of the girls at that party, and when Adam left, he just assumed he couldn't find Alonzo because he was off hooking up with that girl. (Maybe in her car?) I think Alonzo was in the process of hooking up with the girl when he got jumped, possibly by the ex-boyfriend or unreciprocated love interest as well as some cronies. I think Alonzo tried to run, explaining his lost shoes and hat. They caught up with him, and beat him to death. They hid his body for a bit, intimidated the girl to make sure she kept her mouth shut, and then dumped the body a month later.

I could 100% see this. Also if any of the other kids saw anything they may have threatened them to keep their mouth shut. This was an illegal party at an empty house, in a tiny little sundown town where everyone knew everyone else. Someone saw something and KNOWS! We will likely get a confession when someone is sick with cancer or something. 
 

I do not blame any of Alonso’s friends for what happened. They feel awful and never would’ve left Alonzo had they thought he wouldn’t be okay, I could see that they loved him and would’ve stuck up for him. But from what I gathered wasn’t Alonzo the oldest? He probably thought he could handle himself as a Afro-Latino man in a SUNDOWN TOWN what in the hell. Also- boys/young men aren’t taught to “stick together” as much as girls are. Girls are lectured over and over when they are young “never ever leave your friend”- I don’t think young men assume they are vulnerable to violence the way young women are. 

[CrystalBlue]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Just watched the episode about that poor hairdresser, Patrice Endres. I know there were other killers suspected, one with the confession, that were not ruled out. But my GOD, her husband was CREEPY AF. Wanting her REMAINS to be displayed? Picking up the skull and talking to it? Locking her beloved teenage son out of HIS own house right after her death?! Sleeping with her ASHES?! And saying he would neve share the ashes, "particularly with Pistol"? FUCK HIM. And why didn't the SON have first rights to her remains? Or her father?

 

The spouse is considered next of kin.  Unless someone has explicit instructions in a Last Will and Testament or Living Trust, the spouse has the control over the remains of their own spouse.  Had Patrice had the chance to finalize a divorce, her next of kin would have been her son, Pistol.

[ByaNose]

2 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Agree...there is something strange about Porter and his company all going into lawyered-up silence. Sure, the company had known issues with the SEC and perhaps more issues that had not yet been discovered. While that could be a reason to refuse to talk with police, it’s a rather cold-hearted, ruthless move from his buddy Porter. Regardless, if Porter is involved, there is a lot of missing information.

There is still no plausible explanation for how Ray got to that roof and how he went off. The various trajectories don’t quite make sense, as they showed. I’m more inclined to think that he was thrown off the roof. However, as they indicated, he was a big, strong guy. One man could not have tossed him off. And, if so, why leave the glasses and phone nearby practically untouched?

The stuff like the money clip, disconnected cameras, etc are mentioned not because they “had anything to do with his death” but because they are odd. 

Where is his money clip? Was he robbed at some point? His phone and glasses were discovered in relatively good shape and were thought to have been left at the scene. Wouldn’t that imply that other people were involved? The money clip may been perceived to have value and was taken by someone at some point.

The disconnected cameras have nothing to do with the commission of the crime - assuming that it wasn’t suicide - but rather an unfortunate circumstance that possibly prevents them from accessing further information. Also, the fact that it would have been difficult to access that roof or the ledge makes the case even more curious. How did he get up there?

It does make you wonder why he was lured to that hotel in particular. It looked like a maze getting to any point outside of the hotel. Did he know where is was going? Was he given instructions to do so? Also, was the hotel registry checked to see if any familiar names connected to Rey checked in before, during or after he was reported missing and found? Since the cameras weren’t working we'll never get those answers. About the cameras. Were they working before in general and just weren’t working during the time Rey went missing? When was the last reported time of the cameras actually worked?

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, ByaNose said:

It does make you wonder why he was lured to that hotel in particular. It looked like a maze getting to any point outside of the hotel. Did he know where is was going? Was he given instructions to do so? 

This is what I keep mulling over, too. It was a maze walking around inside the building, too, with all the flights of stairs and the inability to get to a window without passing through some rooms and offices and such along the way. And then there was that door to the roof that wasn't easy for just anyone to open, either. 

I also agree with the people that found it hard to believe nobody saw or heard anything that night, given how busy that area of the city tends to be and how many people work and live in that building. 

[Cheezwiz]

5 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

But Rob is a lunatic. And I have zero doubt that he had some sort of involvement.

Agreed - he figured out something (he may have hired someone to abduct Patrice) and made sure to create an alibi for himself. That had to be one of the skin-crawliest interviews I've ever seen on TV - he started out somewhat measured at the beginning, and then went right off the deep end into crazy-town. I was so aghast by the end, that I'm surprised he didn't pull a skin-suit out of his closet for all to see. He may have studied criminology, but he definitely flunks self-awareness.

[sashayshante]

5 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I also agree with the people that found it hard to believe nobody saw or heard anything that night, given how busy that area of the city tends to be and how many people work and live in that building. 

Someone did hear something. Mikita Bronfman, the author of the book about Rey's death, was living in The Belvedere at the time. She said she and her partner were home and heard a loud crash around 10:30pm. It was so loud it rattled the windows. It was significant enough that she wrote about it in her journal that night. There's more info in the link I posted above.

I don't think he was lured to the hotel. I don't think he was ever in the hotel. His office was across the street from the hotel. If he was lured anywhere, it was out of his house. I also don't think it was a coincidence this all happened when his wife was out of town. With the wife not home, they could break in to his house. They just never expected there to be a houseguest at the time.

[Ellaria]

6 hours ago, ByaNose said:

It does make you wonder why he was lured to that hotel in particular. It looked like a maze getting to any point outside of the hotel. Did he know where is was going? Was he given instructions to do so? Also, was the hotel registry checked to see if any familiar names connected to Rey checked in before, during or after he was reported missing and found? Since the cameras weren’t working we'll never get those answers. About the cameras. Were they working before in general and just weren’t working during the time Rey went missing? When was the last reported time of the cameras actually worked?

6 hours ago, Annber03 said:

This is what I keep mulling over, too. It was a maze walking around inside the building, too, with all the flights of stairs and the inability to get to a window without passing through some rooms and offices and such along the way. And then there was that door to the roof that wasn't easy for just anyone to open, either. 

I also agree with the people that found it hard to believe nobody saw or heard anything that night, given how busy that area of the city tends to be and how many people work and live in that building. 

Agree - the area around the hotel looked like a maze with interconnected parking lots and buildings. I'm not sure if the non-working cameras in/around the hotel are anything more than poor maintenance. However, I would expect more information about whether anyone staying or working in the hotel had seen Rey or witnessed a confrontation. It seems that more information could have been gathered from the employees and guests. 

The fact that Rey's car was in that parking lot for 6 (?) days without being noticed by law enforcement is troubling. If that parking lot is close to his place of employment, it should have been noticed/searched early on. 

Where were the relatively undamaged glasses and cell phone found? On the roof near the hole? If so, that's a strong sign that others were involved in Rey's death and that it wasn't suicide. The missing money clip is curious, too. 

I'm not sure that Porter is directly involved in Rey's death. His lack of cooperation makes him look guilty of something but it may stem from self-preservation from further investigation from the SEC. At the very least, he may possess information about Rey's behavior and demeanor prior to his death.

There is someone out there that knows something. Sadly, memories may be lost to time since the police deemed it a suicide and may not have investigated this case as thoroughly as they should have. 

[sashayshante]

2 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

The fact that Rey's car was in that parking lot for 6 (?) days without being noticed by law enforcement is troubling. If that parking lot is close to his place of employment, it should have been noticed/searched early on. 

There was only one ticket on the car, too. That makes me think they dumped the car back in the garage a couple days before it was found, which would be a few days after Rey went missing.

[Ellaria]

24 minutes ago, sashayshante said:

There was only one ticket on the car, too. That makes me think they dumped the car back in the garage a couple days before it was found, which would be a few days after Rey went missing.

Yes, that was strange.

Also, was there no surveillance footage of Rey's place of business or the parking lot where is car was found? We know that the cameras in/around the hotel were not working. Were there cameras anywhere else that could place him in the area after he left home? Other than the car in that parking lot, we have no idea of what Rey did or where he went from the time that he left home until his body was found.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Ellaria Sand

[sioux21]

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Just watched the episode about that poor hairdresser, Patrice Endres. I know there were other killers suspected, one with the confession, that were not ruled out. But my GOD, her husband was CREEPY AF. Wanting her REMAINS to be displayed? Picking up the skull and talking to it? Locking her beloved teenage son out of HIS own house right after her death?! Sleeping with her ASHES?! And saying he would never share the ashes, "particularly with Pistol"? FUCK HIM. And why didn't the SON have first rights to her remains? Or her father?

Even with his time stamps and all of his other verbal diarrhea, I don't find it hard to imagine that he had some involvement. I also doubt it was coincidental that TWO separate friends of hers told the cops the same thing: To look at Rob.

Considering the jealousy he displayed because she dared to love her own damned son and his wacko statements, I still do not discount - even if he did not do the actual murder - that he had Patrice killed. Because a jealous guy like that typically does not take rejection well. And I seriously doubt the intent to divorce him was "new information", as he put it.

This guy is almost as creepy to me as Jule Caylor in the original series.

As for poor Pistol Black, I hope he has found a measure of peace somehow. Thankful that he still had his father (and grandfather).

But Rob is a lunatic. And I have zero doubt that he had some sort of involvement.

The thing that I just couldn't understand was how Rob was saying he was sleeping with the ashes, but then opened the box saying it was the first time he ever saw the ashes. Did he mean that he slept with the box, but never opened it to look? 

[iMonrey]

Just finished the final two episodes. I agree with a previous poster, there's little to no mystery involved in "Missing Witness." I don't know why Liehnia's sisters thought they could locate her body. They already knew what happened to their stepfather Gary: he was burned to bits and the remaining bits were scattered to the wind. There's no doubt their mother and her new husband did the same thing to Liehnia. 

The only thing I don't understand is why the police and/or DA apparently don't think there is a strong enough case to bring against Sandy. Plenty of people have been convicted of murder without a body ever being found. Two of Sandy's daughters can testify they a.) saw her cleaning up the floor with bleach the day Gary disappeared and b.) saw Sandy and her boyfriend carrying the wrapped body out of the house that night. And while Liehnia's taped confession might not be admissible, the fact that Liehnia herself is missing can also be brought up before the jury. Hell, I'd vote to convict.

I liked the episode about the Berkshire UFOs. I find the stories fascinating, but the part that really sent chills down my spine was the air force's own video and audio of a UFO encounter. I mean, it's the freaking air force for Pete's sake, they're not making this stuff up.

[MaggieG]

6 hours ago, sioux21 said:

The thing that I just couldn't understand was how Rob was saying he was sleeping with the ashes, but then opened the box saying it was the first time he ever saw the ashes. Did he mean that he slept with the box, but never opened it to look? 

I think he mentioned that he slept with her ashes right after she died. So right after her body was found and she was cremated. Maybe he did it then, he just hasn't done it recently and that's why the ashes where in the closet? I read somewhere that he is remarried 😳

[azshadowwalker]

The whole Rob and Patrice relationship screamed abuse to me. Pistol said that Rob was very involved for about a year, then suddenly got really nasty. The kid would have been about 9 or 10 then. 

The friend said that Rob set Patrice up with the business. He's 20 years her senior. 

I think he found a younger woman who was struggling a bit financially and thought that he could control her. He set up her business, and he felt she owed him. 

After a year, he realizes that her kid will always come first (because he should always come first) and gets more and more hateful. Takes it out on the kid. Tries to keep her from nurturing any other relationship that might take attention away from him, whether it's with friends or family. 

Vindictively keeps her separated from her true family even in death. Fantasizes about her final days.

Even if he wasn't involved in her death, I have no doubt that he made her life hell. Very, very much a Jules vibe going on there. 

As for the guys who left Alonzo, I am not a fan. Given that at least one of them talk about a conflict between Zo and the dudes who were at the party, I just flat don't believe Justin. And leaving a guy an hour from home in a situation that has already been confrontational isn't just a miscommunication to me. That is just selfish. They should feel guilty. And Zo's family and other friends have every right to be angry at them. 

The feel of the show is lacking. It's a very well-made true crime, but the only thing that made it anything else was the UFO story. Those are my least favorite segments, so that's not enough. Will watch, but it's not UM. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by azshadowwalker

[CrystalBlue]

5 hours ago, MaggieG said:

I think he mentioned that he slept with her ashes right after she died. So right after her body was found and she was cremated. Maybe he did it then, he just hasn't done it recently and that's why the ashes where in the closet? I read somewhere that he is remarried 😳

And here's your Fourth Surprised Like (so far).  Yep, I found an article on Newsweek of an interview with UM's show creator saying he's remarried "to a lovely woman."  Link is here.

Not surprisingly, Primetimers aren't the only people who think Rob is guilty of Patrice's demise.

[Annber03]

Quote

"Rob Endres makes Carole Baskin look like Glinda the good witch."

I haven't seen Tiger King, but from what I have heard about it, this kind of comment speaks volumes right here.

19 minutes ago, azshadowwalker said:

He's 20 years her senior. 

I think he found a younger woman who was struggling a bit financially and thought that he could control her.

This is how I tended to read their relationship, too. Age gaps in and of themselves aren't automatically bad things if both parties are of legal age, but in this case, yeah, when I found out how much older he was than her, my brows went up a bit. And then the rest of the story just confirmed that initial reaction. 

[CrystalBlue]

33 minutes ago, azshadowwalker said:

The whole Rob and Patrice relationship screamed abuse to me. Pistol said that Rob was very involved for about a year, then suddenly got really nasty. The kid would have been about 9 or 10 then. 

The friend said that Rob set Patrice up with the business. He's 20 years her senior. 

I think he found a younger woman who was struggling a bit financially and thought that he could control her. He set up her business, and he felt she owed him. 

After a year, he realizes that her kid will always come first (because he should always come first) and gets more and more hateful. Takes it out on the kid. Tries to keep her from nurturing any other relationship that might take attention away from him, whether it's with friends or family. 

Vindictively keeps her separated from her true family even in death. Fantasizes about her final days.

Even if he wasn't involved in her death, I have no doubt that he made her life hell. Very, very much a Jules vibe going on there. 

As for the guys who left Alonzo, I am not a fan. Given that at least one of them talk about a conflict between Zo and the dudes who were at the party, I just flat don't believe Justin. And leaving a guy an hour from home in a situation that has already been confrontational isn't just a miscommunication to me. That is just selfish. They should feel guilty. And Zo's family and other friends have every right to be angry at them. 

The feel of the show is lacking. It's a very well-made true crime, but the only thing that made it anything else was the UFO story. Those are my least favorite segments, so that's not enough. Will watch, but it's not UM. 

I agree with you and Patrice and Rob.  As for Alonzo and friends, no doubt they should've been more on the lookout for potential racial hatred problems, but everyone was partying, i.e. acting most likely irresponsible, drunk, and they were young.

No one can replace Mr. Stack (and Mr. Farina did try) so I'm fine with the new format but I kind of see your point about the stories being true mysteries.

[Annber03]

I hope we get to see some stories about lost loves and people reuniting, or places that are supposedly haunted, or things like that. Those were always some of my favorite stories on the original series. 

[Andyourlittledog2]

I love the new series. The theme music is everything. I do miss Robert Stack but then this new show doesn't try to replace him as there is no narration at all, so I don't mind it.  The UFO stories were never my favorite but this one was well done and documented so it was interesting to me.

Side note: I used to watch the original show with my little boy and when the people would see the light come down or the UFO they would always get out of the car or chase the thing. And I would exclaim that it was so stupid to do that. I'd turn the car around and drive the other way as fast as I could. One evening I had to call home to tell my husband I would be at a meeting and my nine year old son insisted on telling me something. When my husband handed him the phone he very worriedly and earnestly instructed me that if a light comes down or a spaceship or anything, "...don't get out of the car, okay Mom? Don't get out of the car!"  He relaxed when I assured him that I would never get out of the car in that circumstance. Sweet thing. 😀

[iMonrey]

Quote

Side note: I used to watch the original show with my little boy and when the people would see the light come down or the UFO they would always get out of the car or chase the thing. And I would exclaim that it was so stupid to do that. I'd turn the car around and drive the other way as fast as I could. 

As if you could out-run a UFO. 😉

Quote

I think the note was a red herring. Many screen writers have chimed in to say Rey's note looked like what they call a tone sheet. It's just a bunch of nonsensical story ideas dumped out on paper.

Yes but do they shrink it down really tiny, fold it up and tape it up to the back of their computers?

Quote

There's a great thread on Reddit that offers some extra insights and findings from the author of a book about the case.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnsolvedMysteries/comments/hldhjz/rey_rivera_mystery_on_the_rooftop_missing_details/

From that link:

Quote

Mikita in the final chapters of her book, confirms that she too feels Rey experienced a psychotic break. Signs of delusions are typically the first sign of schizophrenia. If it was slow and gradual, Rey would have reached a peak of no longer distinguishing reality from delusion. This is her rationalization for the running jump off the Belvedere rooftop, she notes this is Rey's colleague Steven King's theory as well.

I've really gone back and forth on this and still don't know where I land, but I simply cannot rule out suicide in Rey's case. I just have a really hard time getting past that weird hidden note. I think it's entirely possible he was writing some kind of screenplay (or trying to) and was just acting part of it out. The houseguest who heard him leave that night said she never heard the phone ring. I think there's a strong possibility the reason authorities ruled it a suicide is that they spoke to enough people who indicated that Rey had some mental and/or emotional issues going on at the time, and that his wife and brother just don't want to accept it.

Is his involvement with his best friend's business fishy? Certainly. But that's not necessarily a direct link. No doubt he had sensitive info about this company which we already know had been sued for shady business practices. Regardless of whether Porter had any involvement it's logical he wouldn't want authorities questioning anyone about the company and what Rey might have known about it. Not because it implicates him in Rey's death but in other crimes his business may be guilty of.

[Ellaria]

49 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I've really gone back and forth on this and still don't know where I land, but I simply cannot rule out suicide in Rey's case. I just have a really hard time getting past that weird hidden note. I think it's entirely possible he was writing some kind of screenplay (or trying to) and was just acting part of it out. The houseguest who heard him leave that night said she never heard the phone ring. I think there's a strong possibility the reason authorities ruled it a suicide is that they spoke to enough people who indicated that Rey had some mental and/or emotional issues going on at the time, and that his wife and brother just don't want to accept it.

Is his involvement with his best friend's business fishy? Certainly. But that's not necessarily a direct link. No doubt he had sensitive info about this company which we already know had been sued for shady business practices. Regardless of whether Porter had any involvement it's logical he wouldn't want authorities questioning anyone about the company and what Rey might have known about it. Not because it implicates him in Rey's death but in other crimes his business may be guilty of.

I agree about Porter and his company. We know that he was under investigation by the SEC and they are relentless. His refusal to cooperate sounds like he didn't want anyone poking around in his business because of other (possible) business crimes. Is it cold hearted? Yes but self-preservation usually rules.

I question suicide because the phone and eyeglasses were found on the roof near the hole and sustained minimal damage. My cell phone cracks when I drop it from 3 feet onto a wood floor, in a case and with a screen protector.  Is it impossible that those fragile items flew out of his pocket and landed on the roof without shattering into pieces? No, but I think it is unlikely. Alternatively, if he was killed - either chased or thrown off that roof - would his killers put those items on the roof above where his body would be found? That doesn't make sense either. So I don't know what to think.

I also question the lack of surveillance and/or eye witnesses that may have seen him after he left his house. There is no trail of what he did or who he saw (or saw him) after he left his house. Even if it was suicide, someone somewhere had to see something

Edited July 9, 2020 by Ellaria Sand

[LadyChatts]

19 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I hope we get to see some stories about lost loves and people reuniting, or places that are supposedly haunted, or things like that. Those were always some of my favorite stories on the original series. 

I'm hoping we get some of these stories, too.  I used to love the paranormal stories.  I saw an interview with Terry Dunn Meurer (one of the producers) who said with the advancements in technology and social media that the lost loves stories might not happen, since it's so easy to find someone nowadays.  I hope they cover cases that are decades old.  Maybe bringing them to the public now with so much advancement and so many web sleuths they might be able to get somewhere.  But I hope there's a variety.  I think it's why I prefer the old format; you got more cases and stories covered.  I wouldn't mind them updating on cases they covered back in the day that have since gotten solved, and maybe airing old cases that haven't.  Again, there may be new evidence, and with new people watching they may get a break.      

I'm mixed on the new format.  I agree that it's really like watching any other true crime story on Investigation Discovery or HLN.  I do like that they can get more in depth with the case, however, since they have an hour to spend on one story.  But it's what always set UM apart from the other shows, was showing multiple stories.  I'm glad they didn't replace Robert Stack, because he was so iconic with this series.  I love Dennis Farina, but it was hard to get into the show with him as host.  Also glad they kept the theme song.    

[Andyourlittledog2]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

As if you could out-run a UFO. 😉

I'd give it my best shot. It might not follow me, either. But I know I wouldn't get out of the car. That I know for sure.  😀

The French Count: I believe he was a family annihilator and left France, bought a fake passport with a new name and by some route went either to South America or the US. He may have had serious financial troubles that prevented him and his family from living the life they were used to but that doesn't mean he was penniless. He probably planned this thing meticulously and squirreled money away for weeks/months so he could make his escape. I believe that is why he is on a series that is otherwise based entirely in the US. He could be living next door to us for all we know.  Now we know what to look for, sort of. He does have that whole universal look going for him so it would make it hard to absolutely ID him on the street. It would have been nice if the show had given us some kind of tell like a nervous habit or specific lifetime interest that would tip us off.

[Shermie]

Watched the first three eps.

Agree that Rob Endes probably killed Patrice. He's a typical liar - gives way too much info to justify his alibi. If you ask an innocent person where they were on a certain day, they would say "I was in Anytown at the mall." A guilty person would ramble on, "I went to Anytown, I left at 11 p. I specifically remember because I just finished watching The Talk Show and Celebrity A was on and I really like them. I went to the mall because I had to buy Thing A and Thing B because my original Thing A broke. I got home at 4 just as the school bus dropped off the kids next door. Why do you ask?"

He's also creepy as fuck. Someone said he's remarried? I give his new wife five years before she disappears. I've watched enough Forensic Files to know that once a wife killer, always a wife killer.

As for the French guy? I think he planned the murders and his new identity for months, maybe years. Maybe getting fake ID and paying off accomplices is where some of his money went in those years. Maybe he had a mistress all along; he was obviously very good at keeping secrets and covering his tracks. His artificial "final hike" with the pointed look at the security spcamera was way too obvious. He could easily have dyed his hair, grown a beard.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I love Dennis Farina, but it was hard to get into the show with him as host.  Also glad they kept the theme song.    

I didn't care for Virginia Madsen either. She started as Stack's co-host, I can't remember if she continued on with Farina. 

I remember one of the very first UM specials that launched the original series, and it was hosted by Karl Malden. 

The theme music is iconic. It's a softer arrangement here, but still effective and easily recognizable.

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I didn't care for Virginia Madsen either. She started as Stack's co-host, I can't remember if she continued on with Farina. 

I thought Keely Shay-Smith (a.k.a. Mrs. Pierce Brosnan) was Stack's co-host. I remember her in later Stack seasons when there was a phone bank on screen, etc. I do not ever recall Madsen ever hosting with Stack.

[CrazyInAlabama]

My guess is the French Count had an exit plan, did the murders, and then escaped out of the country.   Lots of places have high-level plastic surgeons, and places where you stay to recover.     For enough money you can change a lot in a few weeks, and many surgeons made their reputation on never revealing who their patients are.   Certain internationally famous actors and actresses who claimed to never had any work done, would vacation in South America, and come home looking very relaxed, and younger.    A certain doctor in Brazil (Dr. Pitanguy) was rumored to have worked on some of the most famous people, but never did anyone get exposed as his patient.    I'm sure that there are others.    

Once you change your face, and general appearance, you can go anywhere.    

[methodwriter85]

I can see that, but wasn't Xavier supposed to be broke? How would he have gotten the kind of money he would have needed for a plastic surgeon unless he was calling in some kind of favor?

[truthaboutluv]

I'm not sure about super secret plastic surgery, but I do think in 2011, it probably wasn't too hard for him to find some third party illegal means of getting fake documentation. Probably some site on the dark web. And as the chief investigator noted, he had a face that was simultaneously good looking and yet ordinary. 

And Xavier had a what, almost two weeks or so head start, before the authorities even realized the family was dead, where if he did have fake documentation, he could have very easily left since there was no manhunt being flashed all over the news. No one would have noticed or thought anything odd. 

I think as others noted, Xavier did the whole week of activities and heading off with the rifle and all to make the authorities think he either killed himself or is in the mountains, so they'd waste time looking at that angle, all while he settled in some other country. 

Edited July 11, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[CrazyInAlabama]

Just because someone is supposed to be broke, doesn't mean they really are.   There are lots of places where you can stash money, and they will never give your identity up.  

There is a supposed sighting of this man in Chicago.    I wonder if it is him or not?  

Edited July 17, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[Annber03]

30 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I do think in 2011, it probably wasn't too hard for him to find some third party illegal means of getting fake documentation. Probably some site on the dark web. 

This. When you've already committed one major crime, it probably makes it that much easier to just continue on with illegal activity in general. 

[Surrealist]

On 7/9/2020 at 3:51 PM, LadyChatts said:

I'm hoping we get some of these stories, too.  I used to love the paranormal stories.  I saw an interview with Terry Dunn Meurer (one of the producers) who said with the advancements in technology and social media that the lost loves stories might not happen, since it's so easy to find someone nowadays.  I hope they cover cases that are decades old.  Maybe bringing them to the public now with so much advancement and so many web sleuths they might be able to get somewhere.  But I hope there's a variety.  I think it's why I prefer the old format; you got more cases and stories covered.  I wouldn't mind them updating on cases they covered back in the day that have since gotten solved, and maybe airing old cases that haven't.  Again, there may be new evidence, and with new people watching they may get a break.      

I'm mixed on the new format.  I agree that it's really like watching any other true crime story on Investigation Discovery or HLN.  I do like that they can get more in depth with the case, however, since they have an hour to spend on one story.  But it's what always set UM apart from the other shows, was showing multiple stories.  I'm glad they didn't replace Robert Stack, because he was so iconic with this series.  I love Dennis Farina, but it was hard to get into the show with him as host.  Also glad they kept the theme song.    

I'm definitely feeling mixed on the new format too. I prefer the multiple stories of the original. Somehow the original show and its stories intrigued me more. I've never forgotten some of those stories, and to this day, still look up info hoping there's been breaks in those cases, or that they've finally been solved.

Sometimes the hour long "one case, per show" format kind of bores me, especially when it seems obvious what's happened (they're more unresolved than unsolved).

Edited July 11, 2020 by Surrealist

[CrazyInAlabama]

I lived where two of the crimes they talked about happened, and the short format in the original omitted a whole lot of information, and both crimes are technically unsolved still.    

Edited July 11, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama