Ratings and Scheduling: Hail to the Gods

[romantic idiot]

I think it's the debate this week. I was watching live on youtube and there were 1 million watching with me.

[tarotx]

Last night's early ratings have the CW half hours: 0.6 0.6 0.7 0.6

LOT isn't getting the young important fans. In the 18-34 LOT has a 0.4 to Arrow's and Supernatural's 0.6. I think the older comic fans must be watching it since it stays kind of in the same range as them otherwise. So not looking good for LOT at all. 

Edited October 21, 2016 by tarotx

[Belinea]

It might not be the most popular opinion but I just cannot get into LoT. I tried but they had so many characters I didn't like last season. Expect for CL and Victor Garber nobody is interesting to me personally. But then again I always get confused and irritated with those    sci-fi/ time travel shows. 

[tarotx]

I love LOT. It's funny and fun and there are character moments. Last season the show was missing team connection outside Sara's counselling mode but so far this season the team is much more a team/family dynamic. I know not everybody has the same views as me. 

Edited October 21, 2016 by tarotx

[wonderwall]

I gave LoT another try for season 2, I watched half of 201 and had to switch it off because there was just too much second hand embarrassment for me. 

So it's safe to say it's not a show for me. 

Regardless, glad other people are enjoying it though. 

[Morrigan2575]

I think we're in the wrong thread....LoT belongs in the Mind Your Surroundings thread, doesn't it?

[CabotCove]

Quote

 

If it's sports you can weather the storm since seasons end.

One ends and another begins. The NBA season starts next week till April 12, 2017. Then there is post season and pre season  games.

So I think TV shows are just gonna have to adapt to all-year round sports competition.

Quote

I'm not saying they should mold the story around them or they should be the target audience, but know the value.

Romance is like any subplot it can change or die, the show did what it needed to do. They make hard decisions all the time, kill beloved characters, make unpopular changes to popular characters etc. All kinds of choice can chase away viewership. Olicity being apart is not the only reason why the show is hurting this season, some of it was a long time coming. 

Edited October 21, 2016 by DCLeague

[tarotx]

19 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I think we're in the wrong thread....LoT belongs in the Mind Your Surroundings thread, doesn't it?

Yep. Sorry about that. 

[apinknightmare]

15 minutes ago, DCLeague said:

Romance is like any subplot it can change or die, the show did what it needed to do. They make hard decisions all the time, kill beloved characters, make unpopular changes to popular characters etc. All kinds of choice can chase away viewership. Olicity being apart is not the only reason why the show is hurting this season, some of it was a long time coming. 

The show is likely hurting because it's been straight garbage for the majority of the past two seasons, but I think the larger point the OP you were quoting was making is that shippers will stick around even when their ship isn't together - they can weather a lot of stuff as long as they have some hope, and the marketing that the EPs did over the offseason wrt the ship (and, honestly - wrt the newbies too) doesn't really match up with what they're showing. There's a lingering ick in the air for shippers because the boyfriend is looming, and who knows what's on the horizon for Oliver as far as a love interest goes, but the last three eps have been really great for them in spite of those things. So marketing away from a group that's loyal like that when you are actually giving them something to enjoy? Incredibly stupid. 

[dtissagirl]

The part that kills me with LOL is -- it's not like the folks at the CW + the folks at Berlanti prod don't know if you market a popular 'ship, the folks inclined to 'ship will stick with your show even if/when there's zero 'shippy things going on. This is like THE FOUNDATION UPON WHICH THE CW WAS BUILT.

[lemotomato]

5 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

The part that kills me with LOL is -- it's not like the folks at the CW + the folks at Berlanti prod don't know if you market a popular 'ship, the folks inclined to 'ship will stick with your show even if/when there's zero 'shippy things going on. This is like THE FOUNDATION UPON WHICH THE CW WAS BUILT.

That's what's baffling about the marketing/PR this season. From seasons 1-4, the show embraced the romance aspect like any normal show would. Whether they were talking about L/O's comic destiny or milking the heck out of Olicity, the EPs seemed to welcome questions about it. Now they're all "That's not part of our show, whatchutalkingabout?"

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

That's what's baffling about the marketing/PR this season. From seasons 1-4, the show embraced the romance aspect like any normal show would. Whether they were talking about L/O's comic destiny or milking the heck out of Olicity, the EPs seemed to welcome questions about it. Now they're all "That's not part of our show, whatchutalkingabout?"

Because romance and feelings are girly and gross. Ewwwwww!

[thegirlsleuth]

4 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

That's what's baffling about the marketing/PR this season. From seasons 1-4, the show embraced the romance aspect like any normal show would. Whether they were talking about L/O's comic destiny or milking the heck out of Olicity, the EPs seemed to welcome questions about it. Now they're all "That's not part of our show, whatchutalkingabout?"

I do wonder if we're seeing a Clexa effect.  Part of the reason the Clexa fans were so angry--in addition to a show killing a lesbian AGAIN--was that they felt there was a bait and switch, killing off Lexa after teasing that she'd be in the finale.  Maybe the showrunners don't want the Olicity fans to feel jerked around when they don't reunite Oliver and Felicity in the near future (or maybe at all, I don't know).  The thing is, the Olicity fans still feel jerked around because after three years of buildup they are dropping it like it never happened, and their refusal to acknowledge the relationship, except as it relates to how Oliver will react to the boyfriend, makes the Olicity fans feel invalidated and unappreciated.

[Belinea]

8 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

The thing is, the Olicity fans still feel jerked around because after three years of buildup they are dropping it like it never happened, and their refusal to acknowledge the relationship, except as it relates to how Oliver will react to the boyfriend, makes the Olicity fans feel invalidated and unappreciated.

Well, I assume that every show loses viewers as time goes on but the problem is like mentioned above. Additionally, the producers burned the candle from both sides. They got the comic fans mad by killing BC. Now don't get me wrong, I don't miss her or need her back but they could have softened the blow by not killing her. Maybe making her leave town to be a free agent. She'd drop by once in a while across the board. I doubt people would have been so angry. I just believe they needed someone in the grave and after all the talking they did, couldn't back out and to me she felt expandable. But people who love Laurel will probably argue that the ratings declined after her death and because they weren't interested in Felicity and her whining and her super recovery from paralysis (which I also did not enjoy.)

Also, people who like OTA heard all summer about a new team that really nobody, at all, was excited about seeing. So they might have switched to a show where the team has chemistry (see Lethal weapon)

And people who root for Olicity heard nothing hopeful or anything positive all summer long. So why should they invest their time if the thing their rooting for gets eliminated? And to add insult to injury, the blandest guy possible shows up as the off-screen, hiatus boyfriend that everyone just has to love. Why would anyone do that? I mean, not even only fans of O/F. But does anyone care for this guy? You are actively making people stop watching with stories such as this one. 

So, all the things that people who were rapid fans and who made sure to tune in and promote for free are/were slowly but surely reduced. You cannot live on action and stalling of storylines forever. So they shouldn't be surprised with the rating but I am not sure that they really care at this point. I guess as long as it is not yet hurting too bad, nothing will change. But I wish I could be a fly on that wall when the rating do actually come in. Maybe I'd be surprised by how little it matters or maybe even more surprised if they actually cared.

I am however sure that they are hoping that the crossover will bring back viewers. It probably will but I doubt they'll stick around. 

[kes0704]

They shouldn't be treating the crossover as a cure for what is currently ailing the show.  It's poor writing, erasing characters and relationships after 4 years of development, inconsistent or completely dropped storylines, random new characters that "everyone will love" without giving us a reason to love them, plot holes that exist because what drives them happened "off screen", and so the list goes.

The first crossover was great, two separate stories for the different shows that had a common thread of the characters coming together to stop the villain of each individual show.  It didn't matter if you didn't watch both shows.  

The second one was...not good.  The hawk people and villain were snooze-worthy  and I had to watch both shows, which was okay because I was still hanging in with The Flash.  

This time around I have to watch at least three shows to get the full story? The problem is, I've given up on The Flash and I have watched exactly one episode of LOT (the pilot).  Arrow being the middle episode kind of traps me into watching two shows I don't really care about to get the beginning and end of the story.  

[lemotomato]

3 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Because romance and feelings are girly and gross. Ewwwwww!

But then I look at Flash and its two seasons of focusing on just the men and their manly relationships, but now its EP is declaring that they're going to focus this season on Barry/Iris, and I'm just "OK? Why, Arrow, why?"

Edited October 21, 2016 by lemotomato

[apinknightmare]

8 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

but now its EP is declaring that they're going to focus this season on Barry/Iris, and I'm just "OK? Why, Arrow, why?"

Maybe this isn't the best comparison since Flash's ratings have taken a dive, haha.

[Lord Kira]

Barry/Iris are boring together on the show. The only relationship of Barry's I liked was Linda. Bring her back.

[Mellowyellow]

Spoiler

 

What ratings do you need to score before you get moved to Friday?

Do you get cancelled when you hit Friday or do they need a Friday show so you just stay on Friday?

[BkWurm1]

10 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

  Hide contents

 

What ratings do you need to score before you get moved to Friday?

Do you get cancelled when you hit Friday or do they need a Friday show so you just stay on Friday?

Crazy Ex was pulling .03

[Mellowyellow]

Ahh well they have heaps to fall before they move to Friday!

The nasty negative nellie in me wants them to just kill off Felicity so EBR can go get a job with a proper network and live happily ever after.  She's too good for this sh@t!

[quarks]

From the Spoiler Discussion Thread:

Quote

I honestly don't think any of these online interviews and spoilers have any kind of effect on the ratings unless a lot of the social media folks have Nielsen boxes.

There's an interesting side effect here that, not coincidentally, is one of the chief issues with Nielsen ratings, which is that although Nielsen does try to randomize the households they sample, the households know they are being sampled - and that knowledge may impact what they choose to view. To the point where some studies have suggested that Nielsen households may pay more attention to spoilers, not less.  

For instance, let's say that Viewer A has a Nielsen box, loves Deadshot, and hates Nyssa. Since she knows that she can impact the ratings, she may specifically seek out spoilers to make absolutely, positively sure that the Nielsen box knows her household is watching each and every time Deadshot comes on, and to make absolutely, positively sure that the Nielsen box knows that she's watching another channel whenever spoilers indicate that Nyssa will be in an episode. 

I don't know how common this behavior is, or if it's just something that TV people like to complain about, but it does sound at least plausible.

[Chaser]

Thats the kind of Nielsen viewing I'd do. Oh the power. 

[statsgirl]

8 hours ago, Belinea said:

I am however sure that they are hoping that the crossover will bring back viewers. It probably will but I doubt they'll stick around. 

I think at this point, there will be less and less advantage to crossovers in terms of viewers.  Two years ago viewers of The Flash may have been willing to tune in to Arrow again after seeing the crossover but at this point, I"d imagine the audiences have pretty much decided which shows they want to watch.  I'll tune in to The Flash when Arrow characters appear but otherwise, the only two shows of Berlati-verse I watch consistently are Arrow and LOT.

1 hour ago, quarks said:

There's an interesting side effect here that, not coincidentally, is one of the chief issues with Nielsen ratings, which is that although Nielsen does try to randomize the households they sample, the households know they are being sampled - and that knowledge may impact what they choose to view. To the point where some studies have suggested that Nielsen households may pay more attention to spoilers, not less.  

For instance, let's say that Viewer A has a Nielsen box, loves Deadshot, and hates Nyssa. Since she knows that she can impact the ratings, she may specifically seek out spoilers to make absolutely, positively sure that the Nielsen box knows her household is watching each and every time Deadshot comes on, and to make absolutely, positively sure that the Nielsen box knows that she's watching another channel whenever spoilers indicate that Nyssa will be in an episode.

I think you would either have to really love or really hate a show to put that kind of effort into trying to affect it.  Probably love rather than hate because if you hate it, why bother?

[CabotCove]

Discussion continued from: http://forums.previously.tv/topic/6472-mind-your-surroundings-arrow-the-flash-supergirl-legends-of-tomorrow-and-other-superhero-universes/?page=212

Quote

They need to focus on retaining the record low viewership?  Instead of trying to reclaim even a fraction of audience they had last season.   In my opinion, that is not a good business model. 

Its not like the S5 ratings are that different from last season 4B though, this has been the new status quo forming for a while. And now,If the viewers  they lost last season wanted to come back they would have come back for the premiere or after the post positive premiere feedback.  Or for the 2nd episode or 3rd episode.

http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/arrow-season-four-ratings-38484/

There is still some hope that the crossover will give a boost, so there is that , without majorly altering show that has received mostly positive response from media/fans. The show has new competition like Lethal Weapon and Blindspot now,  those are outside factors, they cant really do anything about. JMO.

Edited October 22, 2016 by DCLeague

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Hi

It's ok to discuss how crossovers might affect Arrow ratings in this thread, but please don't get side tracked into discussions about plots on other shows.  That's usually going to be more appropriate for the Mind Your Surroundings thread. 

[tv echo]

Fall TV: What's a hit, what's not
Here's how all the new broadcast shows -- and their networks -- are doing
BY JAMES HIBBERD •  October 25 2016 — 3:42 PM EDT
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/10/25/fall-tv-ratings

Quote

With the quasi-cancelation of ABC’s Notorious, let’s check the ratings for the rest of broadcast’s fall freshman class. Who’s doing the best? Who’s performing the worst? The answer isn’t always obvious as a number – the night a show airs, its lead-in and competition are factors that networks consider too. But first: Here’s how the networks themselves are faring overall compared to this point last year in the adult demo: 

NET ..THEN .. NOW
NBC…2.8…2.5…-11%
CBS…2.5…2.2…-12%
ABC…2.1…1.8…-14%
Fox…1.9…1.7…-11%
CW…0.6…0.5…-17%

So, yes, everybody is down. The decline reflects a broader audience trend shifting away from The Big 5 as original programs proliferate on cable and streaming networks. Another factor: This year’s intensely dramatic presidential election has been fascinating is possibly drawing attention away from entertainment products, especially since even prime-time NFL games – which are usually bulletproof in the ratings – have also dropped notably compared to last year.

Now for the new shows. Here are the top performers ranked by their adult 18-49 rating, including DVR playback when available. Shows in bold have already been picked up for a full season: ... (read more)

Edited October 25, 2016 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

So live+7 numbers are out for Oct. 10-16. And there are some weird things going on. No numbers for SG premiere (demo or viewers), Flash didnt register in the demo but got 4.72 mil viewers for its second episode (down from 5.055 mil viewers it got for the premiere), SPN got a 1.4 in the demo (no viewer numbers), Arrow got a 1.3 and 3.166 mil viewers (up from its premiere where it got 3.07 mil viewers), LOT got a 1.2 and 3.012 mil viewers

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/dvr-ratings/broadcast-live-7-ratings-for-oct-10-16-2016/

[Soulfire]

[Morrigan2575]

Bounced back from last week's series low. Still not good

[SmallScreenDiva]

There seemed a bit more buzz in the fandom this week because it's been touted as a Diggle episode, so that may have helped. Though I'm not sure if previous Diggle episodes have gotten bumps.

[Velocity23]

Some PR fluff:

FROM THE CW

Despite tough competition from the World Series last night, ARROW rose +17% in A18-49 (0.7/2), +14% in M18-34 (0.8/4), and +5% in total viewers (1.87M) over last week.

At 9pm, FREQUENCY held even in total viewers (1.03M), A18-34 (0.3/1), and A18-49 (0.3/1).

Both ARROW and FREQUENCY are seeing a significant amount of delayed viewing this season so far; ARROW has averaged gains of +64% in total viewers, +78% in A18-34, and +82% in 18-49 in Live + 7 Day viewing compared to L+SD. FREQUENCY sees increases of +61% in total viewers, +61% in A18-34, and +65% in A18-49.

[Belinea]

So Arrow was very low last week and is only low this week....So job well done! Or am I reading that press release wrong?

[Velocity23]

I dont know honestly. DCTV is not in an excellent state right now. Flash is down to 1.0, Supergirl at 0.8, Arrow with its 0.7 is not that bad.

[quarks]

27 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

There seemed a bit more buzz in the fandom this week because it's been touted as a Diggle episode, so that may have helped. Though I'm not sure if previous Diggle episodes have gotten bumps.

Usually, yes. There was a very slight bump for the first Diggle episode, "Trust but Verify," for instance, which started a trend of Diggle bumps for "Home Invasion," "Keep Your Enemies Closer," "Suicide Squad," "Suicidal Tendencies," and "Brotherhood." Not all Diggle episodes have gotten bumps - "A.W.O.L." was a slight drop from the previous episode, although still in one of the top third performers for season 4.  And Diggle episodes often feature Deadshot, who is associated with ratings and viewer bumps, so it's not clear if viewers are tuning in for Deadshot or for Diggle. Still, nonsensical reasons for staying in jail and equally nonsensical reasons for going along with a jail break aside, Diggle's a pretty popular character, and I think it's very possible that at least some fans did tune in to see him.

[BkWurm1]

So Arrow had the World Series to go against but at least it didn't have to go head to head with Lethal Weapon. 

[Velocity23]

I wonder how LOT is gonna do against BBT.

[tarotx]

Arrow's numbers held in the finals :) 

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/showbuzzdailys-top-150-wednesday-cable-originals-network-finals-10-26-2016.html

Edited October 27, 2016 by tarotx

[Velocity23]

Arrow beat Supergirl in 18-34 demo this week.

[TwistedandBored]

23 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Arrow beat Supergirl in 18-34 demo this week.

Wow! I am not surprised though. I am the last person still watching Supergirl in my group and I watched it late. 

[tv echo]

Some positive takes on last Wednesday's Arrow ratings (that are not from The CW)...

Primetime Ratings: Series Stays Strong on Fox
CW’s ‘Arrow’ one of the few entertainment shows to hold audience
10/27/2016 12:15:00 PM Eastern
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/programming/primetime-ratings-series-stays-strong-fox/160722

Quote

Game 1 did a 5.4 overnight rating, while the 2015 Game 2 did a 3.5. The World Series drew viewers away from regularly scheduled competition programming.
*  *  *
CW’s Arrow was a rare bright spot, up 17% at 0.7. Frequency did a 0.3, down a tenth.

TV Ratings: World Series Still Huge in Game 2
OCTOBER 27, 2016 6:58am PT by Michael O'Connell
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/tv-ratings-world-series-still-huge-game-2-941665

Quote

On CBS, Survivor (1.8 adults), Criminal Minds (1.6 adults) and Code Black (1.0 adults) were all off incrementally from the previous episodes. NBC had new outings of Blindspot (1.1 adults) and Law & Order (1.4 adults). The latter joined The CW's Arrow (0.7 adults) as the most stable scripted series of Wednesday night. The CW also aired a new Frequency with a 0.3 rating among adults 18-49.

Cubs Win & World Series Ratings Surge To Best Game 2 Result Since 2009
by Dominic Patten  October 27, 2016 7:33am
http://deadline.com/2016/10/cubs-indians-world-series-ratings-game-2-1201843691/

Quote

The rest of the non-baseball night saw almost everyone unsurprisingly taking a bit of a hit. The CW’s Arrow (0.7/2) actually rose from last week, when it was on just before the third and final Presidential debate, and NBC’s Law & Order: SVU (1.4/5) was even with its last original of two weeks ago.

Edited October 29, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Now there's a Game 7 of the World Series tonight - wonder if that will significantly depress ratings for tonight's Arrow episode.

[Chaser]

Pretty sure any bad ratings are just going to be written off tonight.

Do the CMA Awards typically affect Arrow? They are doing a big 50th anniversary show tonight.

[Morrigan2575]

I don't think the CMA has any impact on the Arrow ratings.  World Series has traditionally knocked down Arrow by about a tenth.  

[lemotomato]

39 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Pretty sure any bad ratings are just going to be written off tonight.

SA agrees with you:

[insomniadreams88]

42 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Pretty sure any bad ratings are just going to be written off tonight.

Yep. CW seems to be the only network actually airing its regular lineup of new episodes tonight. CBS pulled Criminal Minds (but not Code Black for some reason?) and NBC pulled everything.  CW clearly doesn't care about the impact of the World Series.

[Velocity23]

I dont think Arrow can get away with not airing a new episode. Because they would have to air on Thansgiving Wednesday otherwise.

[GirlvsTV]

I think if they want the crossovers to all hit at the right time, they may not have room to skip another week.

[Starfish35]

2 minutes ago, GirlvsTV said:

I think if they want the crossovers to all hit at the right time, they may not have room to skip another week.

That's what I was thinking.

[thegirlsleuth]

That's so strange seeing all of the news touting how solid the ratings are when universally the fan perception has been that the ratings have tanked, although there is a difference of opinion as to why.