Ratings and Scheduling: Hail to the Gods

[RussianRoulette]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Putting out press releases that positively spin their ratings is something they've always done whenever there was something to spin positively. It's typical behavior IMO, not damage control. 

I appreciate what you are saying, and I would definitely agree to a certain extent**, but if it requires "spinning" positively, then it is damage control. 

** I'm not at all as knowledgeable as you guys on rating stuff. But to me that PR (which I am not at all familiar with in he context of arrow) combined with Social media presence all of a sudden, screams damage control. 

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, RussianRoulette said:

I appreciate what you are saying, and I would definitely agree to a certain extent**, but if it requires "spinning" positively, then it is damage control. 

** I'm not at all as knowledgeable as you guys on rating stuff. But to me that PR (which I am not at all familiar with in he context of arrow) combined with Social media presence all of a sudden, screams damage control. 

My point is that you seem to be implying that this is damage control for the recent fandom uproar, and what I'm saying is that positively spinning their ratings by putting press releases like this out - which they do any time they have a gain they can spin - is something they always do. 

[looptab]

Yeah, it's not at all related to the content of the show, rather the show itself and its performance. They are advertising their product.

[RussianRoulette]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

My point is that you seem to be implying that this is damage control for the recent fandom uproar, and what I'm saying is that positively spinning their ratings by putting press releases like this out - which they do any time they have a gain they can spin - is something they always do. 

I actually get your point and I am not arguing against it. What I meant was that the PR stuff was spun in correlation with the ratings drop - and not with the fandom uproar. 

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

My point is that you seem to be implying that this is damage control for the recent fandom uproar, and what I'm saying is that positively spinning their ratings by putting press releases like this out - which they do any time they have a gain they can spin - is something they always do. 

Pretty much, they put out Press Releases day of if they have great Live number so they can "brag". They put out PR for Live + 7 if it's something they can spin as positive.  Really these PR aren't for fans anymore than ratings are for fans. However, fans see them and put their own spin on both ratings and PR.

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, RussianRoulette said:

And true Live+3 as well as Live+7 is what matters in this new TV consumption setting. 

No, not Live+3 and Live+7, it's C3 and C7 that matter, according to the article I quoted above.    Live+3 and Live+7 don't count who watched the commercials, so the advertisers don't care about those. C3 and C7 measures who watches the commercials.  

[dtissagirl]

Speaking of C3 and C7 numbers, Oriana Schwindt at Variety got them for the first week of new fall shows, and posted them yesterday. No CW shows in it, but these are very interesting numbers to track --

http://variety.com/2016/tv/ratings/premiere-week-c3-ratings-designated-survivor-this-is-us-empire-htgawm-1201886931/

Hopefully she'll keep having access to these throughout the season, because they aren't regularly shared with the public.

[looptab]

Sorry, I'm lost - what ratings do C3 and C7 indicate?

[tarotx]

3 minutes ago, looptab said:

Sorry, I'm lost - what ratings do C3 and C7 indicate?

The same as the ratings period but these are for those who watch the commercials. 

[Morrigan2575]

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/10/final-adjusted-tv-ratings-for-wednesday_13.html?m=1

Arrow held, 0.7 /1.94 (itty bitty drop)

[Morrigan2575]

So ratings are in for Thursday night and it's not exactly good for Arrow. IF the ratings hold, Arrow will have been beaten in demo and viewers by a 12 year old show that just got moved to a new timeslot.

For the week:

Supergirl, Flash, SPN, Arrow, LoT, Frequency, No Tomorrow. 

I still think Arrow is being impacted by LW but, i can't imagine The CW being happy with Arrow's ratings right now. Especially when you look at the ad rates for Arrow vs SPN. Of course this is just one week and we will need a few more data points to form a full picture. 

Edited October 14, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

Arrow is in its 5th season. It has its core audience. They spent all hiatus selling a different show. I think we are seeing that reflected in its numbers. They need to change their PR line.

They could learn something from SPN.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Chaser

[tangerine95]

Yeah according to MG they tried to "rebuild" the show. Imo that's just not something you do in season 5 when it's unlikely to gain many new viewers and when the show already has an established audience and fandom that is very clear in what they like.

Edited October 14, 2016 by tangerine95

[Morrigan2575]

That really does seem like an odd choice. You can rebuild a show between S1/2 but not in S5. It's similar to what FOX is doing with Sleepy Hollow and, i don't see that working at all.

Usually when a show rebrands/rebuilds late in its run it's a Hail Mary attempt and very rarely works. 

What's really odd is I don't even get why. Yes there have been issues with S3/4 and even 2 IMO. However, i can't see anything that would result in the need to rebuild the show. Of course i still think the noob are less about rebuilding and more about WB wanting to merchandise more IP.

[wonderwall]

10 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Arrow is in its 5th season. It has its core audience. They spent all hiatus selling a different show. I think we are seeing that reflected in its numbers. They need to change their PR line.

They could learn something from SPN.

I don't get it, Suzanne covers both Arrow and SPN. Clearly she knows how to promo SPN, yet... Arrow, it seems like her bias shows heavily in Arrow promos.

[Chaser]

The most frustrating thing is that the show isn't even reflecting what they are selling. So far the noobs have been greatly oversold and OTA/Olicity is still very much a thing.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm not surprised Supernatural got a bump, it's been promoted the entire summer. Got the EW cover and now the 2 guys will be at EW Pop Fest, too (which is why I thought it was really stupid of SA to say he didn't care about magazine covers). On the other hand, Arrow hammered its fanbase the entire summer that it's going to go back to basics without bringing along the stuff they love. *shrug*

Edited October 14, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva
added stuff about EW and SA

[tv echo]

Yeah, but now they've got at least one reviewer (see Den of Geek's 502 review posted in Starling City Times thread) who's favorably comparing the first two Arrow episodes to Daredevil.

Edited October 14, 2016 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, Chaser said:

The most frustrating thing is that the show isn't even reflecting what they are selling. So far the noobs have been greatly oversold and OTA/Olicity is still very much a thing.

Yeah, all summer from what I'd been reading I felt like, "don't care, don't care, don't care" but from what I've actually seen—which is not at all what they were selling (so far)—I'm way more interested than I thought I'd be. But that always happens at the beginning of the season - I guess we'll see how we're doing come 5x10. 

[Morrigan2575]

That is a very odd situation and, i can't explain it. I'm pretty sure that if the sold Arrow 501/502 as they were written/filmed they wouldn't have alienated so many fans.

My biggest concern has been (based on the promotion) the noobs and how they seem to be taking over the show. Yet, (so far) that's not what's going on with Arrow.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[CabotCove]

Quote

Arrow is in its 5th season. It has its core audience. They spent all hiatus selling a different show. I think we are seeing that reflected in its numbers. They need to change their PR line.

Arrow was already losing viewership last season, they changed the PR line and rebooted the show, but it seems its too late. 

Quote

They could learn something from SPN.

Some shows are just lucky, poor LoT(:. 

[Chaser]

They didn't reboot the show, they are just selling it like they did. Hence the confusion.

[JJ928]

I dropped Arrow because what they were promoting did not interest me at all. Add in reviewers saying that Diggle and Felicity had less screen time & attributing that to the episodes being better, did nothing to change my mind. Now I've been watching Lethal Weapon and DVRing Arrow. I won't lie, since I'm a ratings house it was pettiness at first. Catching up with the first 2 eps & seeing that Felicity is very much present, Olicity is very much present, and Diggle will be coming back and getting an arc, I may switch back to Arrow for episode 4. My main focus is Felicity having a real storyline that isn't about who she's dating, so if they deliver that along with the same core scenes we got in the last two eps my mind can be changed. If they impress me in the 4th ep then I'll go back to watching live. My choice to drop it wasn't lack of Olicity, I was never and I'm still not worried about them. I think they'll be reunited by the end of the season. Felicity and her lack of story lines (or lame ones like last season) is what really made me turn away.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Losing viewers is a natural thing after some seasons but Arrow was steady and now it got two series low and less than 2M viewers. I'd say it could go better.

Rebooting a show after quite a few seasons doesn't even make sense as a concept..The viewers that decided it wasn't their thing left a while ago and aren't coming back and those who liked and watched it wanted what they liked, not something else or would have changed the channel already. If they were offered something else rather than what they liked why would they watch? So in the end who is left to watch exactly?

[apinknightmare]

I don't think promoting a change was a bad thing - they've just chosen to promote the wrong stuff. A season of largely stupid LoA stuff was followed by a season of largely stupid magic stuff, and they really did need to rein that in and get back to basics, like they said. It's just that the back to basics they've been teasing isn't what it seems like a lot of the audience really loved about the show. Like, coming out and talking non-stop about the newbies, about Flashpoint affecting people in "big" ways (ugh), and talking about how bleak the show is going to be? All terrible moves, like...seriously, fire yourselves. 

Edited October 14, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Velocity23]

EW pop fest is in 2 weeks. Cannot wait for the PR angle there.

[Chaser]

I don't understand why their PR had to be so narrow. You can talk about returning to street leveling fighting, you can talk about bringing on the noobs, you can talk about FP AND you can talk about the main characters and the relationships.

Slight adjustments would have gone a long way.

[Midnight Lullaby]

"Back to basic" as I intended it was referred to the fighting scenes being gritty, no magic..that sort of stuff. Aside from the fact that you can't promote that then also promote time travel affecting Arrow, a guy with a magic rug, another that can magically transform his face and aliens it can't be the only thing to promote. At least in the way I see it the show being gritty and having good fighting scenes should be the "frame", then you need to fill it with a good plot and focus on the characters the audience care about.

[Chaser]

5 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

EW pop fest is in 2 weeks. Cannot wait for the PR angle there.

We have already seen a slight adjustment. MG out doing some damage control. The Arrow twitter leading with the Olicity gif on Wednesday.

Things I think we might see: Some more live tweets from the cast and the regulars out doing press instead of the boobs.

[RussianRoulette]

I agree with @apinknightmare post above.

But I also think the promotion was not only badly handled and worded but also lacked any strategy aside from dangling the continuous mantra of going back to basics. But we didn't get any explanation on what that would entail.

Personally, the continuous hammering in "more street-level action" and "noobs team!" threw me off. Even though, when watching the first two episodes, it was not the case at all. 

So again, for me, the showrunners and the network have failed at constructing a PR narrative that can both entice the existing audience and bring new viewers. But that's hardly a surprise. 

Further, I also think that Arrow has always suffered from a systemic problem (which might not at all come into play when ratings are concerned, I don't know, just throwing that out there), which is that they can write pretty well season xA but are not capable of following through (with the exception of season 1). Perhaps the problem stems from too many episodes a season? 

Edited October 14, 2016 by RussianRoulette

[EmilyBettFan]

I just don't get why they make it so hard. I'm sure most of us don't have PR credentials and even we can do better.

[dtissagirl]

49 minutes ago, Chaser said:

They didn't reboot the show, they are just selling it like they did. Hence the confusion.

Ding ding ding we have a winner. Their entire promo strategy was

- Back to basics
- The boobs
- NO ROMANCE! OLIVER HAS ANTHROPOMORPHIZED STAR CITY AND IS DATING IT!

The single thing that changed from last season is the fights are better. There's still supernatural stuff, the boobs aren't as relevant as they advertised, I mean, the freaking episode was called THE RECRUITS and everything, but all of the emotional important stuff was anchored in the old cast, and Oliver and Felicity are still doing their thing, Star City is still the worst city ever.

The main problem I see is I have no idea if Chico realizes the promo strategy doesn't match the episodes. There's no such thing as long term marketing for future episodes. You gotta get people to watch the very next one. They advertised 501 and 502 wrongly.

[RussianRoulette]

15 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Ding ding ding we have a winner. Their entire promo strategy was

- Back to basics
- The boobs
- NO ROMANCE! OLIVER HAS ANTHROPOMORPHIZED STAR CITY AND DATING IT! 

I know it's a typo but LOL. Who's boobs are you taking about? Enquiring minds want to know ;) 

Edited October 14, 2016 by RussianRoulette

[Chaser]

The noobs are boobs.

[RussianRoulette]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

The noobs are boobs.

I actually figured that but it was funny!  Now I'm picturing the noobs as boobs. Thanks for that! 

[ComicFan777]

Huh...PR is painting a very stange picture for me...Oliver in love with Star City and its boobs...

Quite the "tagline" for season 5...I don't see why anyone wouldn't be curious about that...

Edited October 14, 2016 by ComicFan777

[CabotCove]

Quote

another that can magically transform his face

Who??

Quote

Losing viewers is a natural thing after some seasons but Arrow was steady and now it got two series low and less than 2M viewers. I'd say it could go better.

Yup viewer erosion is expected. Its a 5th season show now it was bound to reach this level. Its not so bad either, most CW shows dont even reach Arrow ratings. 

[strikera0]

On 9.10.2016 at 10:14 PM, apinknightmare said:

If I were going to attribute the post-4x15 ratings drop to anything, it'd be the disappointing culmination of the dumbass baby mama storyline, Felicity's miraculous walking (which is SO STUPID and still makes me laugh), and the breakup signaling rough times ahead romance-wise, which these writers have NEVER done well. Endless misery for $500 please, Alex.

If I weren't a glutton for punishment, I would've jumped ship then too. That episode belonged in the garbage. And should've been set on fire. And then set on fire again. 

Yeah, I can only speak for myself, but 4x15 was the last episode of Arrow I have ever seen. I was already losing interest way before then, but that ridiculous scene where Felicity magically regains her legs just in time to walk out on Oliver in dramatic fashion was the thing that broke me. I don't need my shows to have Emmy-worthy writing, but I don't want them to insult my intelligence either and Arrow has done that a few too many times over the last 2 years, so...

[Sunshine]

I thought the dramatic exit was the timeline healing itself from the mess that was 4.08.  It was never addressed that way in show though.

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, DCLeague said:

Who??

 

Spoiler

Human Target

[CabotCove]

Oh yeah?, of course

Thanks @apinknightmare

[Sunshine]

Maybe Cody Rhodes will bring in some eyeballs next week.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Would Chico have spoken to the EPs about how to market the new season? Marc always notes that they don't have anything to do with marketing/promos, so I'm curious, because they seem to have the same message.

It's very short-sighted of them, though. With a lot of Olicity fans alienated, the very same fans who trend, work hard during polls, etc., they're not getting the social media push they would have gotten for the 100th/crossover episodes. 

[bijoux]

3 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

a guy with a magic rug

Bahahaha.

3 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

- NO ROMANCE! OLIVER HAS ANTHROPOMORPHIZED STAR CITY AND IS DATING IT!

I've honestly completely forgotten about this since the start of the season. Has he even mentioned the city aside from his conversation with Ragman? 

1 hour ago, Sunshine said:

Maybe Cody Rhodes will bring in some eyeballs next week.

The guy has certainly been giving it his all to promote not only his appearance, but the show in general.

[Morrigan2575]

@catrox14 posted this in the Supernatural forum.  

Looks like SPN was the only CW show to make the Neilson Weekly Top 10 SM list

http://www.nielsensocial.com/socialcontentratings/weekly/

Not exaclty great news for Arrow or the Berlanti shows.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[JenMD]

From the media thread (I figured ratings/scheduling were related topics), continuing the discussion of the bizarre scheduling on TNT.

They might also be going through the series at different speeds depending on the time of day.

That's what I thought might be going on, but they can't even keep episodes in order within a single block.  They've got 1.7, 1.9, 1.8 scheduled tonight, in that order.  And they're replaying these episodes next week, in the same order.  I mean, what?

As for season 4, I completely forgot to mention that they renumbered them after episode 7 because they threw in the Flash crossover and are calling that 4.8, everything after that is off by a number.  It's just weird, if you know them better by number than name (as I do on many of these).  They are airing later eps - Wed afternoon has 4.17, 4.18, 4.21 (I'm using their numbers)(and no, I don't know what happened 4.19 and 4.20) and Thurs. afternoon has 4.22 and 4.23, but no 4.24 on the schedule in the near future.  They go back to the pilot after 4.23.  Again.

[Velocity23]

L+7  ratings are out for Arrow and Flash. Arrow scored a 1.3 and 3.07 mil viewers in L+7

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/dvr-ratings/broadcast-live-7-ratings-for-oct-3-9-2016/

Edited October 19, 2016 by Velocity23

[Morrigan2575]

Oh yeah, they're feeling the heat.

[lemotomato]

They were also asking fans to skip the debate and watch the show live in another tweet earlier today.

The WWE has been doing some cross promotion, so that might give the episode a boost, or at least hold the ratings. 

Edited October 19, 2016 by lemotomato

[calliope1975]

6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Oh yeah, they're feeling the heat.

Awww, it feels awkward when they have to ask for it. (I know that's what normal shows do.)