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Ratings and Scheduling: Hail to the Gods

caracas1914

By caracas1914
in Arrow

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LeighAn
LeighAn

If Arrow gets poor premiere ratings I will personally blame Black Siren/Katie Cassidy,  cause even though that is not how ratings work like at all I was promised tens of millions of viewers would tune

Chaser
Chaser

So when you talked about being protective of Oliver this season....you weren't talking about his intelligence right?

Angel12d
Angel12d

On one hand I can see where JH is coming from, just in a general way of how female characters are viewed compared to male characters. But then I also cringed when I read her tweet because I think acto

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quarks

quarks

Morrigan2575, take comfort in the knowledge that Supernatural slammed Arrow on Twitter last night:

Supernatural: Tweets (000), 89, Unique authors (000), 17

Arrow: Tweets (000), 42, Unique authors (000), 12

That's number two and number three overall though, both squashing Chicago P.D. and Law and Order: Special Victims Unit, so not bad. If, as usual, dwarfed by the NBA basketball and NHL hockey tweets.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)
1 hour ago, Morena said:

http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/cw-2015-16-season-ratings-38429/

So according to this site's numbers, here's how season 4 compared to the others:

season 1: 1.1 / 3.21

season 2: 0.9 / 2.62

season 3: 1.01 / 2.76

season 4: 0.94 / 2.49

7.23% drop in demo and 9.8% drop in viewers from season 3, but slightly higher in demo compared to season 2. That's pretty steady.

And before anyone freaks out, Flash, for all that it got a shit ton of promotion and is apparently superior to Arrow in show quality , dropped 4.8% in the demo and 8% in total viewers compared to its first season.

Edited by lemotomato
images aren't linking, hmm
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Angel12d

Angel12d

Arrow seems to have a pretty steady and loyal audience. The CW are probably very happy with that, especially when you take into account the live plus numbers which I think the CW values a lot, unless I'm mistaken?

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

I'm seeing a lot of pointing and laughing over on Twitter about ratings declines but even with the slight demo and viewer drops from the arguably inflated S3 figures (due to Flash viewers), there just really isn't anything out of the ordinary.  Give me another show in its 4th season that has only dropped a tad shy of 5% in total viewership from two full seasons earlier and I'll happily amend my statement.  As @lemotomato pointed out, even the S3 to S4 drop isn't that dramatic considering S3 got the temporary Flash bump.

Overall, I'm actually amazed that Arrow has managed to keep such steady viewership in light of so much supposed unhappiness over the past 2 seasons. Then again, we can always come back to the online fandom is not representative of the general viewership argument which looks more and more likely to be the reality.

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Chaser

Chaser

Considering S3 numbers were inflated by the crossover, those numbers are crazy steady. 

Wonder what they would have looked like if the network put promotion into it and if Olicity hadn't broken up. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Quote

Give me another show in its 4th season that has only dropped a tad shy of 5% in total viewership from two full seasons earlier and I'll happily amend my statement.  

Supernatural was very much like that. In fact I find a lot of similarities between SPN/Arrow, both get little to no promotion. Both are "self" promoted by fandom, both have very loyal viewers and both are "little engines that could" (will go on as long as the stars want).

There were several seasons where SPN routinely had the lowest year-to-year drop in demo/viewers of the CW (usually around 5% or so).

People will always twist ratings to shit their argument and as much as I'd love for Arrow to be higher. These ratings are not bad, they're a small drop and quite possibly just normalizing after S3 inflation.

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Thundercatmary

Thundercatmary

I think how the BMD was handled and the Olicity break up was a major miscalculation on their part, hard to know if the ratings would  have been better but I suspect so. I remember when season 4 started most people were happy/optimistic during 4a, that I saw anyways, and that took a swerve in 4b.

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Morena

Morena

(edited)
On 19/05/2016 at 5:47 PM, looptab said:

Yeah, I don't know how good of a choice it has been to air the final episodes this late in the season. Previous seasons aired the finale the second week of May.

Plus, they pretty much dropped the promotion after 415.

Nah, that's what they get for breaking Olicity up :D

         season 4

4.01: 1.09(demo) 2.67M

4.02: 0.95(demo) 2.50M

4.03: 0.89(demo) 2.40M

4.04: 0.94(demo) 2.64M

4.05: 1.06(demo) 2.60M

4.06: 0.92(demo) 2.29M

4.07: 1.10(demo) 2.67M

4.08: 1.38(demo) 3.66M - crossover with Flash

4.09: 1.01(demo) 2.82M

4.10: 1.09(demo) 2.82M

4.11: 1.07(demo) 2.77M

4.12: 0.92(demo) 2.47M

4.13: 0.92(demo) 2.45M

4.14: 0.91(demo) 2.44M

4.15: 1.02(demo) 2.69M (olicity break up)

4.16: 0.72(demo) 2.09M (pós break up) – loss 600K  - demo: 0.3

4.17: 0.86(demo) 2.34M

4.18: 0.79(demo) 2.24M (LL/BC death)

4.19: 0.88(demo) 2.27M (pos death - funeral)

4.20: 0.75(demo) 2.07M (pos death) - loss 200K - demo 0.1

4.21: 0.77(demo) 2.16M

4.22: 0.70(demo) 1.94M

4.23: 0.80(demo) 2.19M

Edited by Morena
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

If you look at the full ratings tables for S3 and S4, you have pretty similar demos between episodes 1 and 15. They're virtually the same before the crossover, then the crossover gain is the same. Then S3 held up that extra demo fraction the crossover brought a leeeettle bit better:

301    1.00    401    1.09
302    0.85    402    0.95
303    0.93    403    0.89
304    0.95    404    0.94
305    1.06    405    1.06
306    0.91    406    0.92
307    0.88    407    1.10
308    1.41    408    1.38 crossover
309    1.06    409    1.01
310    1.14    410    1.09
311    1.08    411    1.07
312    1.20    412    0.92
313    1.08    413    0.92
314    1.17    414    0.91
315    1.10    415    1.02   

Then -- both seasons went into a hiatus after episode 15. 316 lost .2, and 416 lost .3 . The difference was that S3 demos recovered right after, and S4's never did. Which is when the similarity shifts to S2 -- although S2 started hemorrhaging viewers two episodes earlier.

Two things are the same in those big losses of viewers post-213 and post-415. One internal to the narrative, one external: Oliver and Felicity being put apart romantically, and the show, immediately after, going into a completely unexpected hiatus in S2, and a way longer than usual hiatus in S4. [S3 had the normal sized hiatus.]

Edited by dtissagirl
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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

Season 3 also benefited from getting a Paleyfest Panel-- and a special sizzle reel made for it-- in the middle of the first spring hiatus, which kept the show's buzz going. Not to mention a second extended trailer for episodes 319-320 released before the second 2 week break. 

Narrative-wise, you know what else season 3 had that wasn't in season 2 and 4? Something positive (Olicity sex in 3x20) happening before the traditional last 3 episodes of impending doom. 

Edited by lemotomato
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Morena

Morena

12 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Season 3 also benefited from getting a Paleyfest Panel-- and a special sizzle reel made for it-- in the middle of the first spring hiatus, which kept the show's buzz going. Not to mention a second extended trailer for episodes 319-320 released before the second 2 week break. 

twitter/tumbrl/media was excited about Olicity reunion last season, remember? (A guy saw them in a scene together - it was the last scene)

IMO another thing that contributed to the current ratings were the flashbacks.
in previous seasons, the flashbacks were so interesting, really useful for history, though a bit less last season. this season were terrible, sleepy,      unnecessary, except for flashbacks about Constantine and Diggle (4.05 and 4.11)

.

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tv echo

tv echo

Comparison of superhero tv show ratings this week:

Gotham (FOX) (season finale) - 1.2 and 3.62 (final)
Flash (CW) (season finale) - 1.3 and 3.35 (final)
Arrow (CW) (season finale) - 0.8 and 2.19 (final)


Last week:

Gotham (FOX) - 1.3 and 3.84 (final)
Flash (CW) - 1.3 and 3.37 (final)
Agents of SHIELD (ABC) (two-hour season finale) - 1.0 and 3.03 (both hours) (final)
Arrow (CW) - 0.7 and 1.94 (final)
LoT (CW) (season finale) - 0.7 and 1.85 (final)

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Thundercatmary

Thundercatmary

(edited)

Interesting article on ratings/cancelations and profits, though not specifically about Arrow.

Sorry for the double post, I'm one phone and it's being uncooperative.

ETA: I added it here since it talks about ratings :)

Edited by Thundercatmary
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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

That's because the totals for 2015-2016 is incomplete. According to the article, "Lists include Live+7 numbers through May 8 and Live+Same Day for May 9-25". Basically, 2015-2016 numbers are artificially low because they haven't added the Live+7 bump to the last couple episodes yet.

It's a bad side effect to Arrow ending the season so late. Last season Deadline's season summaries included Live+7 for every episode except the last 2. This year it looks like the last 3 missed the cutoff.

Edited by lemotomato
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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

I think it's lazy and misleading for Deadline to compile and publish ratings they way they do. And unfortunately, then their incomplete info is spread around like fact because whoever updates the Arrow wikipedia page sources the season total ratings from Deadline (even though the individual episode ratings are sourced from zap2it's overnight numbers). There's a lot of confusion about where the numbers are coming from and how they're totalled (Not that we should rely on wikipedia for accurate info anyway :P)

Edited by lemotomato
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wonderwall

wonderwall

Ahh. Yeah there's definitely confusion. I sometimes like to lurk on the IMDB page because it's hilarious, but even some there have noted the same thing... Unfortunately people (like me) can't read the finer print haha!

Also IMO It's ridiculous to do a live +7 ratings through to May 8th and then do same day for everything afterwards. That makes zero sense to do that. 

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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

(edited)

[off topic?] Very interesting chart. Law & Order SVU is so impressing, it could very well outlive the mothership. A 17 season-old show is the only one to gain viewership this year, just wow (and Sleepy Hollow lost almost 50% before it dumped its co-lead. Maybe the network thinks it will dig so low next year, it will find oil or shale gas). [/off topic?]

I watched more episodes of S4 (but mostly in S4-A) than S3 and I do believe there was more to like when it came to character moments in S4, too, but the (imo) complete failure of the season arc and the flashbacks made the average quality about equivalent to S3 so I can see how the ratings were steady.

The CW renews shows with 0.2 ratings so I'm not worried about Arrow's immediate future unless major screw-up (of killing off Diggle level *jinks*). l. It's still a show that gets online and media buzz, has an active/vocal fandom that gives it more visibility, sells overseas and syndication is coming. I'm more concerned about the show doing better writing-wise. If there's a quality rebound, I can see the ratings improving in S5.

Edited by Happy Harpy
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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

(edited)

Honestly I doubt S5 ratings would increase.  The only exception to that being if they decided to do a Supergirl/Arrow crossover and managed to retain some residual Supergirl viewers (similar to what happened with Flash viewers in S3) but even that is questionable since I doubt the crossover appeal is that great.  Otherwise the show is mature enough that I don't see new viewers being likely and doubt many viewers who left would come back.

Edited by NumberCruncher
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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

I know @Morrigan2575 keeps track of the final live+SD ratings, but I don't know if anyone is tracking the Live+7 too, so I took the liberty of compiling the ones available for season 4 (for easier reference)

1GS3wMy.jpg

NA= episodes that didn't have an increase big enough to make it onto the top 25 list for the category.
Source: tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com

edited on 6/7/16 to include Live+7 for 4x22

And then because I was bored and curious, I scrounged up the only Live+7 data for season 3 I could find (source: spoilertv, which only had the Live+7 demo available)

kM8iCaT.jpg

I have a question about Live +7 ratings: I know that the general public only gets to see the top 25 shows that gain, but who else gets to access the complete set of data aside from the networks? Are Hollywood Reporter and Deadline writing their articles with the same information provided to the rest of us or do they get the network data?

Edited by lemotomato
I can't figure out google docs ::sigh::
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quarks

quarks

10 hours ago, lemotomato said:

 

I have a question about Live +7 ratings: I know that the general public only gets to see the top 25 shows that gain, but who else gets to access the complete set of data aside from the networks? Are Hollywood Reporter and Deadline writing their articles with the same information provided to the rest of us or do they get the network data?

Some of the larger ad agencies reportedly pay for the reports, so presumably if Hollywood Reporter or Advertising Age wanted the data, they could pay for it.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I don't track Live +7 because it's not consistent. Sometimes Arrow makes the Top 25, sometimes it doesn't.  

I'd rather just track Live +SD since i know I'll have numbers every week. Last time i thought about tracking the L+7 it was less than 1/2 the episodes and didn't really seem to offer that much insight.

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