Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[phoenics]

58 minutes ago, Starry said:

About Iris, it looks like she's going crazy. She's adapting to the Mirrorverse and is starting to scratch her arms like Eva does. I wonder if this "testing the borders of sanity" arc isn't going to be what really impacts WestAllen for the rest of the season.

I've been thinking this too.  

[Trini]

6 hours ago, Starry said:

I am not exactly disappointed that I was wrong about DP but I am a bit salty that they still managed to film stuff with a heavily pregnant woman but shipped Joe off screen after finally giving him a major role in the A plot. I hope Jesse is okay and they didn't have to write him out because of health issues.

Yes, the wrong people keep leaving! However it fits the pattern this season of having the actors take breaks from episodes. The problem with Jesse is that they already sideline Joe, so shipping him off is kind of adding insult to injury.

 

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 I am a bit confused because Caitlin's only storyline is to help Barry build a Speed Force but in his interview Grant only mentions Cisco as the person who's doing a lot. Either he forgot about Caitlin or she's doing something else but what?

I'm guessing he didn't mention her because it a major spoiler/plot twist. I'm still sticking with my theory that something happens to Caitlin/Frost - either with the mirror plot or the speed force plot.
 

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About Iris, it looks like she's going crazy. She's adapting to the Mirrorverse and is starting to scratch her arms like Eva does. I wonder if this "testing the borders of sanity" arc isn't going to be what really impacts WestAllen for the rest of the season.

I bet the "arc" only lasts one episode. Or I hope so, because I'd hate to end the season with WestAllen angst.

As an aside - it's annoying to go back and read some of Wallace's comments/teases about the season. Because he has the bigger picture in mind, but he says things before episodes are revised/shot/edited, and actual end product doesn't match. Then of course things he thinks are a big deal, usually are not.

[Trini]

Photos for 6.17, "Liberation" are out: http://flashtvnews.com/flash-barry-iris-featured-in-liberation-photos/33037

There's two scenes: Iris and Eva, and Barry/Siri/Cecile/Nash. I'm finding it odd that they have (everyone at STAR Labs) in dark colors.

[Trini]

The bigger news is that the 6.18 synnopsis is out:

Quote

"Pay the Piper"

GODSPEED AND PIED PIPER RETURN - When Godspeed returns, Barry (Grant Gustin) turns to Hartley Rathaway (guest star Andy Mientus) for help. However, things get tense quickly after Barry realizes one of the changes from Crisis is that The Flash and Pied Piper are now enemies. Meanwhile, Iris (Candice Patton) tries to escape the Mirrorverse.

Amanda Tapping directed the episode written by Jess Carson (#618). Original airdate 5/5/2020.

 

Excuse me while I go cry about Iris....

[Trini]

... And I'm back.

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"Pay the Piper"

...

Amanda Tapping directed the episode written by Jess Carson (#618). Original airdate 5/5/2020.

Fun fact - Tapping is more well known for starring in the Stargate TV series, but she has also been directing TV for a while.

Jess Carson is a new guest(?) writer for the show. And if her IMDB page is accurate, she may be the show's first Black, female writer.

 

8 minutes ago, Trini said:

GODSPEED AND PIED PIPER RETURN - When Godspeed returns, Barry (Grant Gustin) turns to Hartley Rathaway (guest star Andy Mientus) for help. However, things get tense quickly after Barry realizes one of the changes from Crisis is that The Flash and Pied Piper are now enemies. Meanwhile, Iris (Candice Patton) tries to escape the Mirrorverse.

First of all, ALL Barry's attention should be on getting Iris back/Black Hole/his speed.

Secondly, Cisco and Caitlin have more history with Rathaway, so centering Barry is a little odd.

Wow, only 17 episodes to get back to that Godspeed tease from the premiere - yay. And again making him a one-episode villain is lame.

I'm glad to see Pied Piper and Mientus again, but I hope Cisco is a big part of that subplot.

I don't even know what to say about Iris still being trapped. If she isn't out by now, then she's probably going to be there for the rest of the season - terrible. I should have known since they always wait until the finale to solve things, but I was hoping they wouldn't be so dumb.

Some of this would have been more tolerable if they had given Iris and Eva/the Mirrorverse the A-plot a few times, but it looks like they won't.

 

[Trini]

17 minutes ago, Trini said:

Jess Carson is a new guest(?) writer for the show. And if her IMDB page is accurate, she may be the show's first Black, female writer.

Update: she's a new staff writer. Going to the Media thread.

[phoenics]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

The bigger news is that the 6.18 synnopsis is out:

 

Excuse me while I go cry about Iris....

I knew it.  She's likely going to end the season stuck in there.  Well - I better get major angst from Barry about it.

2 hours ago, Trini said:

... And I'm back.

Fun fact - Tapping is more well known for starring in the Stargate TV series, but she has also been directing TV for a while.

Jess Carson is a new guest(?) writer for the show. And if her IMDB page is accurate, she may be the show's first Black, female writer.

 

About Jess - yes she's black - this just blew up all over twitter.... people are excited.

Edited April 23, 2020 by phoenics

[phoenics]

1 minute ago, phoenics said:

I don't even know what to say about Iris still being trapped. If she isn't out by now, then she's probably going to be there for the rest of the season - terrible. I should have known since they always wait until the finale to solve things, but I was hoping they wouldn't be so dumb.

Some of this would have been more tolerable if they had given Iris and Eva/the Mirrorverse the A-plot a few times, but it looks like they won't.

I agree wholeheartedly with this.  I mean - it couldn't go any other way though.  There isn't a way to stick Iris in there for 7 episodes and then let Barry not have a clue for 6 of those episodes, only to finally give him a clue at the end of the 7th and then get Iris out immediately.  There's no payoff there.  Although now I'm not sure there can be a payoff at all - because she's just been stuck in there and Barry didn't know.

So we can't get the angst and love torn scenes that make it worth it while he doesn't know.  We just get Iris looking sad in the B-plot in the mirrorverse - when that whole plotline should have been centered more.

I still say Wallace is far too swayed by something that's telling him to decenter Iris and the Wests and even WestAllen and I say that's a mistake.  We've pretty much gotten WestAllen on paper all season - but not onscreen, except in 4 episodes - and they haven't even been centered in those.

And now we are likely to end the season with Iris stuck in the mirror.

LOL - it kinda serves Wallace right - because now, after her being stuck in there so long, he's gonna have to make it WORTH it when she comes out and really center THAT and her and Barry's responses to that - and that needs to last more than one episode.  

[Trini]

Well, now I've pretty much given up on any payoff. I knew some stuff would be unresolved because the season getting cut short, but at the big things I was looking forward to 1) Barry figuring out about Iris/Siri (I'll see that next week at least), and 2) Iris getting out. So after 6.17, I'm not really invested anymore.

SIGH

[Trini]

WestAllen Twitter found this past tweet from Candice about 6.18, but I'm still keeping expectations low:

 

[phoenics]

48 minutes ago, Trini said:

WestAllen Twitter found this past tweet from Candice about 6.18, but I'm still keeping expectations low:

 

Hmmmm... maybe she gets out in 6.18 then... 

6.19 is gonna be a weird season ender, imo.

[ruby24]

I really can't believe they decided to have this stuck-in-the-mirror story go on for 10 episodes. That is crazy. It should have been maybe 4. And then keep going with this new Mirror Master villain, but to just trap Iris in there for 10 EPISODES? Seriously? Why are these people so bad at pacing stuff out?

And what the hell is going on with having Ralph show up and be in an episode, and then be gone for like three, and then show up again and pick up the Sue stuff, and now I'm guessing we won't see him again for another three? What is going on here- were cast members like Carlos and Hartley just completely sick of being in Vancouver all the time so they've demanded very obvious schedule changes that necessitate them only being there for a certain set period and then not for a while? I actually like who they got for Sue and lo and behold, I think the actors have a spark of chemistry, so they got lucky, yet the Sue/Ralph subplot is apparently once every three or four episodes, which makes it pretty easy to forget about.

[mrspidey]

16 hours ago, Trini said:

Barry realizes one of the changes from Crisis is that The Flash and Pied Piper are now enemies.

Wait. Didn't we know this already? Didn't HE know this already? I'm confused...

[GHScorpiosRule]

13 hours ago, phoenics said:

About Jess - yes she's black - this just blew up all over twitter.... people are excited.

I don't care if a new writer is Black, White, polka-dotted, purple. I just want GOOD writers who know the characters/source material, history.

I remember how excited everyone was when Wallace was announced as the new show runner and look how that turned out.

I'm only still watching because I'm stubborn and I love Grant Gustin and how he plays Barry*; hell, I stuck to the bitter end with Smallville.

*Yeah, I'm a huge Barry apologist. Unashamed.

[Trini]

2 hours ago, mrspidey said:

Wait. Didn't we know this already? Didn't HE know this already? I'm confused...

Yes, you're right. I don't know why they phrased it that way like it's new info. And this should be a Cisco/Caitlin story, Barry has more important things to deal with!

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I remember how excited everyone was when Wallace was announced as the new show runner and look how that turned out.

He's made some good changes. This Mirrorverse arc is turning out to be tedious, though.

[Starry]

The black female writer is needed to hopefully call out the problematic writing for Iris.

2 hours ago, mrspidey said:

Wait. Didn't we know this already? Didn't HE know this already? I'm confused...

He already knows.

The episode descriptions have been all over the place lately. That or the writers forgot what happened five episodes before.

I am annoyed to be honest.

I expect Iris to get out between 6x18 and 6x19 but I didn't want her to save herself and it seems that's what's going to happen instead. I'd like to see Barry angst but I am not holding my breath. Especially when Wallace thought it was a good idea to throw a Godspeed filler at him one episode after he finds out about the mirror clone.

And I am bracing myself for more relationship drama after Iris gets out of the mirror. I remain of the opinion that she's going crazy in there and that's what's going to change the dynamic between WestAllen for the rest of the shortened season.

I have to say that I like what's going on with Ralph and Sue more than whatever filler nonsense they are doing with the rest of the supporting cast. But I think Ralph and Sue only have some chemistry when they calm down a little. Sue's quirky, badass act is forced and it looks like both actors are trying way too hard.

[Featherhat]

Amanda Tapping is one of those actors who actually made a serious second career out of directing so she should be good and I think she's also doing a Batwoman episode. She had some serious issues with how they wrote her character in SG-1 early on and ended up just telling the writers "write her like you would a guy and I'll bring the feminine aspect to the character with the acting!" and it worked. 

I'm very interested that have hired a black female writer and cautiously optimistic that it's a step in the right direction. I'm sceptical that she's going to be calling out the treatment of Iris in the show because she's new and presumably wants to keep her job and even if she did would they listen to her? Wallace listed hiring a black female writer as an order that Berlanti gave him at the beginning of the season so I hope she's not just a tickbox hire. When the show had other female writers I never felt their scripts were particularly better for the female characters than those written by men because the overall writers room was such a boys club as was the tone of the show. 

Sigh, Iris is still in the mirror in 6x18? Who thought this was a good idea? Even if you had another 3-4 episodes after that, there's not a lot of time to give real WestAllen a storyline dealing with this and explore their changed dynamic or whatever was going to be going on. And with 6x19 the new finale it's all going to be up in the air.

 

[adora721]

51 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Amanda Tapping is one of those actors who actually made a serious second career out of directing so she should be good and I think she's also doing a Batwoman episode. She had some serious issues with how they wrote her character in SG-1 early on and ended up just telling the writers "write her like you would a guy and I'll bring the feminine aspect to the character with the acting!" and it worked. 

 

Thanks for that information about how Amanda made the writing for Carter work on SG-1. Carter was fabulous! I met Amanda at a convention years ago; really great person!  I haven't seen her direct, however. I hope she's just as good as she was at acting.

[BeautifulFlower]

On 4/24/2020 at 10:31 AM, Trini said:

 

He's made some good changes. This Mirrorverse arc is turning out to be tedious, though.

I was watching a reaction the other day. One of them said they felt sympathetic with Bloodwork in the first half as we learned what his plan was early on. They're not getting that feeling at all with either Eva nor Carver. I have to agree with what was said.

I think it's a good thing Eric got rid of the season long big bad. However, the mistake was that the second half of the season always had more episodes than the first half. 

Considering the next season will most likely have 22 episodes, just have each half be 11 episodes.

 

Moving on, my problem with the mirror storyline is that it's tied to Black Hole. We have gotten nothing on Black Hole at all. 6x10 and 6x16 are the only episodes featuring them. 

The problem is that they decided to do basically filler A plots.

6x11- Truthfully, there was no need for them to do this Amunet plot just to reveal Mirror Iris replaced real Iris.

6x12 - I get Ralph has to have another centric episode, but it was mostly filler until the end. They revealed Sue was attached to Black Hole.

6x13- We got a Gorilla Grodd episode that served no purpose toward Black Hole or the mirror story at all.

6x14 - I guess it's not filler as it introduced Barry's plot for the back half.

6x15 - Pointless filler A plot. There was no need for Nash's plot to be the A plot. It could've just been the B plot

6x16 - We get back to Black Hole. Again, nothing happens as we still don't know what their plan is.

If you're going to say that Black Hole is the big bad for the second half, how about writing more A plots involving said big bad?

[Trini]

On 4/25/2020 at 7:58 PM, BeautifulFlower said:

If you're going to say that Black Hole is the big bad for the second half, how about writing more A plots involving said big bad?

Exactly.

Wallace actually did something a little different in that there are two villains in the back half. The problem is that neither has been fleshed out even halfway through 6B - and then we're losing 3 episodes, too. We've seen the Black Hole operatives, but haven't learned much about Black Hole or Carver. Going more slowly with Eva/Mirror Master makes a little more sense, but we still should have had more of her and Iris.

So at least now we know the split season format only helps pacing but so much.

[Trini]

Wallace quotes from here: https://www.tvguide.com/news/the-flash-eric-wallace-epic-consequences-for-barry-and-iris/

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"You've seen the preview for this week. I'm sure Barry's gonna figure out the truth this week, and boy are there huge, epic consequences," Wallace told TV Guide. <...>

"Let's just say the love that Barry and Iris have is so strong, it literally transcends boundaries, even dimensions. That means sometimes you don't have to be in the same room to work together to defeat the bad guys."

("Fixed" that first quote.) Barry & Iris being able to communicate/work together through the mirror sounds promising - but I NEED her to be out!

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"In many ways, we don't realize that yet, but Eva McCulloch, in some ways, is different from every adversary that the Flash has ever faced," Wallace said. "Because if you think about it, moving in the Mirrorverse and moving at the speed of light means you're super-fast yourself. What does that mean for The Flash? I think what Barry's going to find out is that Eva's going to be a little harder to catch when she eventually tries to accomplish her goal, which is killing her husband... There's a reason why Eva is in the mirrorverse and why Blackhole and Eva were chosen as kind of our — I won't even call them villains. I'll call them co-adversaries because Eva's not really that bad. She's kind of OK, she's just a little misguided. And it all does eventually tie into the artificial speed force, which they're trying to build. And in fact, you get your first glimpse of it [this week.] You'll get your first glimpse of their progress for Team Flash on the artificial Speed Force."

Eh- don't even try to pretend the fantasy pseudo-science makes sense. My takeaway is that they will connect the mirrorverse to the new speed force somehow. Or maybe Eva's research, or Eva herself, helps them make the new speed force.

And there's still this thing that hasn't shown up in the show yet: https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/18867-spoilers-and-spoiler-discussion/?do=findComment&comment=5918789

 

And reminder of this quote also about "consequences":

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- Matt's Inside Line:

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Is The Flash‘s Barry going to figure out that that’s not his iris? Especially after Wally’s warnings and Joe’s suspicions? –Noya

“Yes — and the audience won’t have to wait until the end of the season for this to happen,” showrunner Eric Wallace tells the Inside Line. But wait! Here comes the Be Careful What You Wish For part. “However, there will be tragic consequences to learning the truth about Mirror-Iris,” the EP warns. “Consequences that will send the season in a new, even more dangerous direction for Team Flash.” ...

---

 

 

[Trini]

Photos for 6.17, "Pay the Piper", are out - but no Piper, though (it seems like they're holding back some photos?): http://flashtvnews.com/the-flash-pay-the-piper-photos-released/33063

Iris finds Kamilla, and Cisco and Barry at STAR Labs:

 

I'm guessing this is Godspeed in the box?? Pretty sure it's not Rathaway/Piper:

[Trini]

Gustin's comments on the "Piper" episode: https://ew.com/tv/the-flash-grant-gustin-godspeed-mystery/

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"It's an episode where we're going to see some changes because of 'Crisis,' and Hartley Rathaway, [a.k.a.] Pied Piper, is going to be back," Gustin told EW earlier this week. "In that episode, Godspeed is back."

<...> In this new timeline, Hartley is no longer Team Flash's ally because, as Gustin puts it, "Barry kind of did Hartley dirty," and "Pay the Piper" will elucidate this fraught dynamic.

"Hartley really isn't a friend when he comes back, but Barry's going to need to find a way to reconnect with Hartley and try to fix what 'Crisis' changed and stop Godspeed, and try to save the city," says Gustin.

 

[phoenics]

On 4/29/2020 at 2:17 PM, Trini said:

 

Iris finds Kamilla, and Cisco and Barry at STAR Labs:

 

This sentence makes it seem like Iris found Kamilla, Cisco AND Barry at STAR Labs, instead of saying: Iris found Kamilla; Cisco and Barry are at STAR Labs.

I was like - Barry and Cisco are in the mirrorverse now too?

[Trini]

6.19, the (shortened) season finale, synopsis:

Quote

"Success Is Assured" -

"THE FLASH" SEASON FINALE - Barry (Grant Gustin) considers a risky plan to save Iris (Candice Patton) from the Mirrorverse. Ralph (Hartley Sawyer) attempts to stop Sue (guest star Natalie Dreyfuss) from making a grave mistake that could destroy her life.

Phil Chipera directed the episode written by Kelly Wheeler & Lauren Barnett (#619). Original airdate 5/12/2020.

---

Fairly vague description. I think Wallace said that this episode kicks off the 'third act' and that there will be a cliffhanger. I'm not convinced that Iris and the others get out in this one, but if they do it's probably at the end.

Wheeler and Barnett have done some good episodes.

[phoenics]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

6.19, the (shortened) season finale, synopsis:

---

Fairly vague description. I think Wallace said that this episode kicks off the 'third act' and that there will be a cliffhanger. I'm not convinced that Iris and the others get out in this one, but if they do it's probably at the end.

Wheeler and Barnett have done some good episodes.

I'm placing my bet that Iris doesn't get out - maybe Kamilla and Singh do - but it's more dramatic if Iris doesn't, tbh.  So my bet is either no one gets out, or everyone but Iris gets out.

[Starry]

I am happy about Barry doing something risky to get Iris back. I still want him to enter the Mirrorverse.

I just hope that Godspeed won't be a distraction. This arc has been dragging and this is not the time for another filler.

[Trini]

Well, I'm scrapping my theory that Caitlin is the sacrifice to make the speed force/rescue Iris. I thought they'd try to connect Danielle's exit to the A-plot, but no - just cold powers being weird. Lame.

---

From the way that Wallace has described Eva, I'm a little afraid that he'll try a redemption arc for her. I'd hate that because Eva - using Siri as an extension of herself - violated Barry in a very personal way, and I don't think that can go unpunished. And of course all the other terrible things she's done.

[Trini]

Candice's comments in her interviews seem to confirm that Iris doesn't get out until after ep. 19. sigh  I'm sure the next two episodes will be fine, but I don't really have any expectations.

----

When Wallace teased that 'Iris in (from?) the future' storyline ages ago, I was excited about it, but now I'm starting to feel the opposite; because I'm thinking that it will end up being another WestAllen separation story. They were angsting about Crisis and his upcoming death, then there's this Mirrorverse story where they are separated for most of it; Grant and Candice are good at angst, but I don't know if I can take another season of it.

[Starry]

I gave up hope after Grant's interview where he said that some storylines are left unfinished and he mentioned Barry and Iris' separation among other things.

I wouldn't mind the angst if the show capitalized on it. You can't keep Barry and Iris separated for this long or do a huge story like Crisis and only center their relationship in two episodes out of eight.

I've given it some thought and was it really necessary to trap Iris in that mirror in the winter premiere? The show is awful at pacing stuff out and they didn't really do anything with the Mirrorverse before Eva got out.

IMO they could have had the Ralph and Sue episode be 6x10, the Grodd episode be 6x11, the Iris and Team Citizen episode be 6x12 and the Amunet and Goldface episode be 6x13. Of course they should have found another excuse other than going to Lian Yu to keep WestAllen apart in the episode Iris gets trapped. The "mourning Oliver" stuff could only take place in the winter premiere. I think that with some tweaking they could have had the same story without having to lock Iris away in a different dimension for the entirety of 6B.

[phoenics]

36 minutes ago, Starry said:

I gave up hope after Grant's interview where he said that some storylines are left unfinished and he mentioned Barry and Iris' separation among other things.

I wouldn't mind the angst if the show capitalized on it. You can't keep Barry and Iris separated for this long or do a huge story like Crisis and only center their relationship in two episodes out of eight.

I've given it some thought and was it really necessary to trap Iris in that mirror in the winter premiere? The show is awful at pacing stuff out and they didn't really do anything with the Mirrorverse before Eva got out.

IMO they could have had the Ralph and Sue episode be 6x10, the Grodd episode be 6x11, the Iris and Team Citizen episode be 6x12 and the Amunet and Goldface episode be 6x13. Of course they should have found another excuse other than going to Lian Yu to keep WestAllen apart in the episode Iris gets trapped. The "mourning Oliver" stuff could only take place in the winter premiere. I think that with some tweaking they could have had the same story without having to lock Iris away in a different dimension for the entirety of 6B.

This has been my #1 issue with this arc.  I love angst - but I need to feel like it's worth it too.  And when the show treats it like it doesn't matter that Iris was replaced for 6 episodes and doesn't give us enough of the soul-mate moments that make this kind of thing worth it, I worry the payoff won't be great enough.

This is exacerbated by the fact that we don't get really lovescene intimacy with Barry&Iris - we barely get peck kisses at this point.  But a storyline like this DEMANDS an emotional and kiss-filled reunion.  It demands an epic, desperate kiss and hug sequence.  I'm talking sweeping music, etc... all of it.  I keep thinking back to a kiss sequence Max and Liz had in Season 1 of the OG show, when they declared their love for one another for the first time and then showered each other's faces with little baby kisses before kissing on the lips.  Ugggghhhh it was so good - and not "too adult" at all. Barry and Iris on this show need something like that.

6.16-18 have really stepped it up finally - but we could have had way more scenes centering this plot rather than focusing on KF or whatever that was.  Why haven't they shown #TeamCitizen still going after black hole - or at least the team asking why they were seemingly dropping that... but no... nothing on that front really.  I haven't minded the Sue/Ralph stuff (except Sue is still too extra), but missed seeing Ralph integrated into the main plot better.  It's like he's just barely there - plus Sue is dragging him a bit too far into camp for me.

I do wonder what's going to happen with the Iris-future storyline if that's anything at all... but we likely won't find out until the original season finale (episode 22).

I also thought I read somewhere that they are going to release those final 3 episodes (they should do it all at once, imo) before they start season 7?  So they'll keep them separate.  That's if they ever get to go back into the studio to film though I guess.

Edited May 6, 2020 by phoenics

[Trini]

2 hours ago, phoenics said:

I haven't minded the Sue/Ralph stuff (except Sue is still too extra), but missed seeing Ralph integrated into the main plot better.  It's like he's just barely there - plus Sue is dragging him a bit too far into camp for me.

 

Yeah, it's weird how they're kind of sleeping on Ralph in this back half after they had finally gotten him to a good place in Season 5. Now he only has a story when Sue is there, and to occasionally support Killer Frost's plots. But the next episode has a Sue subplot, so at least he'll end the season with something.

 

2 hours ago, Starry said:

The show is awful at pacing stuff out and they didn't really do anything with the Mirrorverse before Eva got out.

I really thought that the half-season format would help, but there are still issues. (I guess technically, this is better than them stretching out this story from the season premiere, though.) Wallace has this idea to have like 6+ stories going on at once which I think hampers the development of each individual story.

I get that he wants to have episodes that focus on different characters (and give actors breaks), but it ruins the flow of the bigger overall arcs that are more important.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Trini
ugh - dropped words

[Trini]

Photos for 6.19, "Success is Assured" are out. All the light assassins are back; Team Flash + Sue at Mucculloch Tech; Eva has a new costume; and Mirror Singh.

[Trini]

Promo:

 

A few predictions:

1) This is probably the episode where Barry uses up the last of his speed.

2) Eva actually gets to Carver and she traps him in the Mirrorverse to 'suffer'. Or...

3) ... Eva actually succeeds in killing him, and she takes over Black Hole.

[phoenics]

Whatever happens, I think it's going to be really bad for Team Flash and especially Barry.  Wallace said that he is writing this in Acts.  He said episode 19 was the end of Act 3 in a 4 Act season.

From a writing perspective - most of the time when Act 3 ends, it ends on a really low point for the hero (Barry)... I think it means Iris doesn't get out of the mirror and he's in an even worse place than before.

I think you're probably right that Eva takes over black hole and Carver gets locked into the mirror.

[BeautifulFlower]

11 hours ago, phoenics said:

Whatever happens, I think it's going to be really bad for Team Flash and especially Barry.  Wallace said that he is writing this in Acts.  He said episode 19 was the end of Act 3 in a 4 Act season.

From a writing perspective - most of the time when Act 3 ends, it ends on a really low point for the hero (Barry)... I think it means Iris doesn't get out of the mirror and he's in an even worse place than before.

I think you're probably right that Eva takes over black hole and Carver gets locked into the mirror.

He said episode episode 19 ends on Act 2

[phoenics]

On 5/7/2020 at 9:04 AM, BeautifulFlower said:

He said episode episode 19 ends on Act 2

Same - in a 3 act or 4 act work, typically the penultimate act ends in a dramatic low point for the hero.

[phoenics]

Bringing this over from the media thread:

15 hours ago, Trini said:

Sneak peek here: https://www.eonline.com/news/1150723/iris-struggles-with-her-neural-dissonance-in-the-flash-sneak-peek

I can see two outcomes.  One is that Iris gets out in the next episode, along with Singh and Kamilla.  But Iris is severely damaged from the neural dissonance and something bad happens - like memory loss or something like that...

Or Kamilla and Singh get out and Iris doesn't - further causing neural damage to Iris.

The question is - why doesn't Eva seem to have any issues?  Is that because of the weird glow up chamber she used at the end of 6.18? What was that anyway?

 

[Trini]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

The question is - why doesn't Eva seem to have any issues?  Is that because of the weird glow up chamber she used at the end of 6.18? What was that anyway?

I hadn't really thought about that chamber, but you're not the first person I've seen speculate that it might help the neural dissonance. So hopefully that's an option to help Iris later.

[phoenics]

18 hours ago, Trini said:

I hadn't really thought about that chamber, but you're not the first person I've seen speculate that it might help the neural dissonance. So hopefully that's an option to help Iris later.

TVGuide suggested that Iris would now become a villain like Eva - I really don't see that happening, although I don't trust E Wallace for it not to happen, so ... ugh.  The only way I would be happy about this is if Villain!Iris killed CS for good, or tried to.  And then Iris could get ZERO blame just like CS/KF did for helping Savitar/HW's death.  Fair is fair.

But another possibility is that Iris from the future hint from earlier interviews of Wallace?

Even if it's not the previous two - I wonder if now Kamilla and Singh will get out of the mirrorverse, but Iris is "lost" so to speak, and won't get out when they do.

If this season hadn't been truncated, maybe I'd feel better about the ending and the season overall, but that SB shipbait in last night's episode with Barry injected into that weird and out of place scene (whitewater rafting, WTF?) with CS/KF's endless send off scenes really sent me over the edge.

I'm tired of EWallace pandering to the worst parts of this fandom and screwing over Iris/WestAllen fans.

[Trini]

Not really news, but Wallace says we'll see more of Godspeed next season. (It's gonna be many months without new info, so I can see TVLine dropping these snippets every so often.)

[rogvortex58]

The Flash: Will Danielle Panabaker Miss Fewer Episodes Due to Season 7 Delay?

Awesome. So she might be back a lot sooner in Season 7.

[adora721]

I'm dreaming/crossing fingers they'll ship Danielle P. to "Stargirl" to join Icicle!😁

[rogvortex58]

And I’m just going to ignore anymore shade thrown at her by anyone.

Bad enough the lies people already say about her on Twitter.

[BeautifulFlower]

45 minutes ago, rogvortex58 said:

And I’m just going to ignore anymore shade thrown at her by anyone.

Bad enough the lies people already say about her on Twitter.

We don't know if it's lies or the truth. What we do know that something is going down behind the scenes. I think it's best we don't talk about it.

[ursula]

1 hour ago, BeautifulFlower said:

We don't know if it's lies or the truth. What we do know that something is going down behind the scenes. I think it's best we don't talk about it.

Why is it best? People have been calling her out for years now. There’s nothing being said now that is surprising. It’s just people in the know finally calling her pattern of behaviour what it is.

Considering how many fans have been gaslighted into thinking we’re ‘over reacting’, talking about it is very cathartic.

[Starry]

12 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

We don't know if it's lies or the truth. What we do know that something is going down behind the scenes. I think it's best we don't talk about it.

We know what's going down in public though. I don't care if she and CP don't get along but it's a fact that DP has publicly erased CP and disrespected her position as the leading lady.

I'd rather some people (even alleged CP/WA fans) admit that they don't care about what she did than insist that other fans are lying when the proof is out there for everyone to see.

[BeautifulFlower]

11 hours ago, ursula said:

Why is it best? People have been calling her out for years now. There’s nothing being said now that is surprising. It’s just people in the know finally calling her pattern of behaviour what it is.

Considering how many fans have been gaslighted into thinking we’re ‘over reacting’, talking about it is very cathartic.

I meant on here. I agree with everything you said. I just didn't want an argument to start and a mod step in. I don't think we can actually talk about it on here anyway, right? There's no thread I think.

[ursula]

Bye bye Elongated Man. Don’t let the door hit you on you way out.

 

[phoenics]

On 6/3/2020 at 9:23 AM, BeautifulFlower said:

I meant on here. I agree with everything you said. I just didn't want an argument to start and a mod step in. I don't think we can actually talk about it on here anyway, right? There's no thread I think.

We can talk about it in the media thread since there are now news articles publicly calling DP out.  I posted one of them, but there are a few now.  Her behavior has been noted and picked up on by stars, writers, etc.. and then she went and deleted thousands of her tweets - which was also written about.

Fair game now.