Eileen Davidson: Queen Eileen, Bold and Beautiful

[kokapetl]

Agreed. She also originally presented her issue with LVP as something that was really no big deal but she just wanted to get it out in the open even if she was overreacting. Personally, I think the word "affair" is inflammatory, that people do not associate it with "love affair", and that LVP knows this. Who knows for sure, but she did owe Eileen an apology and she gave one proportionate to the way Eileen initially addressed the situation. I'm sure Eileen also knows or was clued in that Lisa's apologies are often of the "I'm sorry you felt that way" variety and you can take it or leave it, but you can't force her to feel the kind of remorse Eileen wanted her to feel. I'm not a big fan of LVP but I can't blame her for becoming so irritated she said whatever she had to say just to make Eileen finally drop the subject.

Lisa has a problem with making proper, satisfactory apologies, and her snide remarks in her talking heads make it crystal clear she she's never sorry in the slightest, but rather she thinks she's always the victim when anyone expects an apology from her. Edited April 19, 2016 by Kokapetl

[WireWrap]

Lisa has a problem with making proper, satisfactory apoligies, and her snide remarks in her talking heads make it crystal clear she she's never sorry in the slightest, but rather she thinks she's always the victim when anyone expects an apology from her.

The THs are filmed late in the season or after filming is complete, they are not filmed at or close to when the "event" (in this case the initial affair conversation) happens. So, that we see Lisa getting exasperated in her THs may be due to how Eileen kept wanting/demanding a specific apology but only generalizing her 'feelings" to Lisa and after each apology from Lisa, Eileen said they were "fine" with each other time and time again. I would not be happy either had it been me instead of Lisa after getting 4 apologies rejected by Eileen. 

[kokapetl]

Apologies along the lines of "I'm sorry if I upset you", or "I'm sorry if you..." in general places the fault on the person who's receiving the apology. The only proper apology I heard from Lisa was the one Kyle coached her to say on the boat.

[zoeysmom]

I believe the best apology, when you are not sorry for your behavior is to say, "I am sorry my asking about you and Vince and the genesis of your relationship was hurtful to you."  Your sorry for the result but not for the act.  It would be then on Eileen to ask if LVP was sorry about asking.  If LVP said no, then Eileen needs to let it go.  She can hate her or do whatever she wants.  Conversations are a two way street.

[biakbiak]

I tend to hate "I am sorry if I offended/upset..." apologies but how Eileen asked for the first apology it seemed a perfectly normal response because Eileen framed the conversation so weirdly. By the third or fourth apology after being told by Eileen they were all good, I would have started cussing Eileen out if I were Lisa.

Edited April 18, 2016 by biakbiak

[MatildaMoody]

Apologies along the lines of "I'm sorry if I upset you", or "I'm sorry if you..." in general places the fault on the person who's receiving the apology. The only proper apology I heard from Lisa was the one Kyle coached her to say on the boat.

 

I disagree. I think an apology along the lines "I am sorry you.." or "I am sorry if you.." place fault on the person. Someone saying "I am sorry if I offended you" still takes ownership that they did something, that they believes offended or may have offended the person. Using the word "if" does not automatically mean that they are placing fault on the person being apologized to. Actually designating that "you felt" or "if you felt" is what places the blame on the other person. 

 

When someone apologizes with an If, I am not bothered. It's when they apologize with an "if you" that I give the stink eye. It is a small distinction for plenty of people, but many people have a verbal tick where they use if as a space between the apology and taking responsibility. I don't hold that against them. Now, when they start telling me that they are sorry that I felt a certain way, or they are sorry I took something wrong (with or without the if) that is when I know they are full of shit and are giving a backhanded apology. 

 

ETA: When I feel someone owes me an apology and they use the word "if" I simply remove it to see what they are really saying. Someone saying "I am sorry if you felt I was offensive" is "I am sorry you felt I was offensive" to me. Someone saying "I am sorry if I offended you" is the same as them saying "I am sorry I offended you" that's just me and the way I parse conversations though, obviously Mileage Varies and all of that. I am sorry if I offended anyone with this post. :)

Edited April 19, 2016 by MatildaMoody

[ryebread]

I don't think the problem is "I'm sorry IF I offended you...."

 

It's the "I'm sorry if I offended you BUT..."

 

The BUT is the game changer in most situations.

[Umbelina]

I think when you are apologizing to someone, or hearing one to you, it's perfectly understandable that every word matters.  "if" and "but" are bad words at that time.

 

"I'm deeply sorry that my words caused you pain." is about as close to skating the edge as you can go. 

"I'm deeply sorry I caused you pain."  works, unless your body language/face doesn't say that at all.

 

After the apology is accepted you can (possibly) go on to explain yourself a bit better.  "I didn't mean it that way, but I can certainly understand how you could mistake my intention." depends entirely on whether or not the apology is believed and probably the level of trust you have with that person.

 

Of course, probably the simplest way to handle it would be to say:

I am sorry.  (full stop)

Edited April 19, 2016 by Umbelina

[MatildaMoody]

I think when you are apologizing to someone, or hearing one to you, it's perfectly understandable that every word matters.  "if" and "but" are bad words at that time.

 

"I'm deeply sorry that my words caused you pain." is about as close to skating the edge as you can go. 

"I'm deeply sorry I caused you pain."  works, unless your body language/face doesn't say that at all.

 

After the apology is accepted you can (possibly) go on to explain yourself a bit better.  "I didn't mean it that way, but I can certainly understand how you could mistake my intention." depends entirely on whether or not the apology is believed and probably the level of trust you have with that person.

 

Of course, probably the simplest way to handle it would be to say:

I am sorry.  (full stop)

 

I agree the best and simplest way is to say I am sorry. I do think that in the case of the housewives, I am sorry is never going to be just enough, because they all want the full reason said on camera. And what I have found is that in real life, people (who are apologizing) need something to get them to the next part of the apology. Most people who are genuinely sorry will say "I am sorry for..." or "I am sorry I.." It doesn't happen that often, but when it does, you still realize that the hurt they caused you hasn't diminished. Only now, you have to deal with the fact that you accepted their apology and are no longer able to dwell on it. That is when you either let them know that the apology wasn't enough for you to move on, or you accept the apology and move on from it (even when it sucks and you have tons of stuff that you want to shit talk to your friends about that person who gave you an unacceptable apology).

 

When it comes to the housewives though, they never know exactly how detailed they have to be when apologizing. They don't know if they have to tell every single thing they did, or if they just have to say I am sorry for whatever it was that is causing the current fight. 

 

Would Eileen have been satisfied if LisaV had just said, "I am sorry."? Or would Eileen have prompted her into spelling out exactly what Eileen wanted an apology for? If Lisa had just said "I am sorry" or "I am so sorry" would Eileen have said "sorry for what?" I only ask because I am a lot more like Eileen than I care to admit. I can apologize till the cows come home, but I don't do well with apologies from others because if they made me mad enough for an apology to be warranted, I hold a real grudge. And, I am not talking about a "Lisa VanderPump holds grudges because she is not being as close to me as she was before we had our falling out" type of grudge. I truly want the other person to apologize to me in the self-flagellating way that Eileen seems to want an apology. 

 

I want them to realize what they did/said/pointed out was hurtful and just plain wrong. I think I identify with Eileen because I know when it is me who has to deal with being put on the spot, I NEED the person who put me on the spot to feel every bit as humiliated as I did. The apology is the only chance I get at that, so I need them to apologize in the exact way I want them to apologize. The only problem is that doesn't work in real life. I can't just tell my co-worker "how dare you" and ask my friend who did accept the apology, why she did. I have to either accept the apology or not. 

 

I accept the apology if the person apologizing actually says they are sorry. I don't care whether or not there is an "if" so long as the next word is "I" or "for". Now, if the next word is "you" or next phrase "you felt" I know what is up and they are not owning their part. 

[WireWrap]

I agree the best and simplest way is to say I am sorry. I do think that in the case of the housewives, I am sorry is never going to be just enough, because they all want the full reason said on camera. And what I have found is that in real life, people (who are apologizing) need something to get them to the next part of the apology. Most people who are genuinely sorry will say "I am sorry for..." or "I am sorry I.." It doesn't happen that often, but when it does, you still realize that the hurt they caused you hasn't diminished. Only now, you have to deal with the fact that you accepted their apology and are no longer able to dwell on it. That is when you either let them know that the apology wasn't enough for you to move on, or you accept the apology and move on from it (even when it sucks and you have tons of stuff that you want to shit talk to your friends about that person who gave you an unacceptable apology).

 

When it comes to the housewives though, they never know exactly how detailed they have to be when apologizing. They don't know if they have to tell every single thing they did, or if they just have to say I am sorry for whatever it was that is causing the current fight. 

 

Would Eileen have been satisfied if LisaV had just said, "I am sorry."? Or would Eileen have prompted her into spelling out exactly what Eileen wanted an apology for? If Lisa had just said "I am sorry" or "I am so sorry" would Eileen have said "sorry for what?" I only ask because I am a lot more like Eileen than I care to admit. I can apologize till the cows come home, but I don't do well with apologies from others because if they made me mad enough for an apology to be warranted, I hold a real grudge. And, I am not talking about a "Lisa VanderPump holds grudges because she is not being as close to me as she was before we had our falling out" type of grudge. I truly want the other person to apologize to me in the self-flagellating way that Eileen seems to want an apology. 

 

I want them to realize what they did/said/pointed out was hurtful and just plain wrong. I think I identify with Eileen because I know when it is me who has to deal with being put on the spot, I NEED the person who put me on the spot to feel every bit as humiliated as I did. The apology is the only chance I get at that, so I need them to apologize in the exact way I want them to apologize. The only problem is that doesn't work in real life. I can't just tell my co-worker "how dare you" and ask my friend who did accept the apology, why she did. I have to either accept the apology or not. 

 

I accept the apology if the person apologizing actually says they are sorry. I don't care whether or not there is an "if" so long as the next word is "I" or "for". Now, if the next word is "you" or next phrase "you felt" I know what is up and they are not owning their part. 

For, if that person apologizes and continues to discuss or push whatever they did to tick me off, then I know that apology was nothing more than words. But, if that person apologizes and never repeats whatever upset me to begin with, then I know they meant it when they apologized. In other words, actions speak louder than words for me. Eileen accepted the first apology and Lisa didn't repeat the offending behavior, Eileen should have realized that Lisa meant what she said, that she was apologetic for upsetting Eileen and she should have let it go instead of wanting another pound of flesh from Lisa.

[The Mighty Peanut]

It's interesting the "I'm sorry you took it that way" i.e. "I'm sorry you're so stupid" apology is so popular given it has never satisfied anyone in the history of time.

I do see where Eileen was coming from. The way she got together with Vince carries a stigma and obviously affects her very much to this day, and she felt she was safe from judgement with LVP until LVP said the word "affair", in doing so bringing up a sensitive topic and in Eileen's eyes cheapening the validity of her marriage for a reality tv show fight.

When I want an apology from someone...I don't need them to cry and beg forgiveness. I only want to know they understand that their actions hurt me, and I want them to be sad about it--not because I think they need to be punished, and not eternally, but I can't be someone's friend if they don't care that their actions were harmful.

However. As others have mentioned, you have to accept the apology, or accept "I'm sorry you..." is the best you're gonna get, and reevaluate the relationship. Eileen brought it up so many times it made me assume things couldn't be going well with her and Vince, or that the initial affair had gone on a lot longer and without the husband/wives' knowledge than she implied. Plus it's housewives; I don't know how she thought a relationship, however great it may be, that originated so scandalously wouldn't be gossiped about.

Edited April 19, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[BlackMamba]

Eileen is doing some infomercial shoot

https://www.instagram.com/p/BEXVuNUjb24/

[bosawks]

I don't really spend a lot of time thinking about the inner lives of the HoWives since most, if not all, don't really have one, it's all outer, but, Jesus Eileen why so fucking miserable?

[ryebread]

I don't really spend a lot of time thinking about the inner lives of the HoWives since most, if not all, don't really have one, it's all outer, but, Jesus Eileen why so fucking miserable?

 

Seriously, I think it has to do with her house.  There's some bad chi there.  I'm not talking about needing to put 9 lemons in a bowl but she's got so much stuff. Some of which isn't well maintained. Her clothes, spanning all eras, suggest that she never throws anything out.  If she would just unload and organize, she would feel lighter. 

 

It could also be about money.  So she's got this big house/yard/pool that needs some work that she's too busy to take care of and Vince, well, Vince doesn't strike me as the handyman type.  If they don't have the money to hire out to get some regular scheduled maintenance or even a bi-monthly housekeeper to dust all the tchotchkes, things just start to look/feel bad.  I can't explain it.  But believe if maybe she got rid of some of the stuff, perhaps moved to a smaller, (read less stuffed) place with lots of light and easier maintenance she might feel better.  And relieved if there is a cash flow problem. 

[thewhiteowl]

I don't really spend a lot of time thinking about the inner lives of the HoWives since most, if not all, don't really have one, it's all outer, but, Jesus Eileen why so fucking miserable?

Some might call that poetic justice. By some I mean me .

[Lura]

Is the other side of the coin welcome to speak, or shall I suffer the wrath of everyone on the board who disagrees, which is just about everyone?  I have no desire to start an argument or to ignite bad feelings in anyone, believe me.  It's merely that I've tried to remain quiet and to take the comments about Eileen to heart, but I haven't expressed some of my own.

 

I totally agree that Eileen went too far with LVP in seeking apology after apology.  The matter could have been settled in one, brief, sincere conversation.  I admit to feeling that LVP's apology was either insincere or too brief, but it was unimportant in the scheme of things.  There had been an apology, whatever it was worth.  It was time to move on.  I do feel, at this point, that Eileen became too influenced by the feelings of her outspoken pal, Little Big Mouth, but there again, the fault or weakness  was Eileen's.  The outcome of all this was a storyline of its own and a bombardment of vitriol against Eileen from fellow HWs, social media members and to some extent, from columnists, but the worst has come, IMHO, on message boards like this one.  Further, it seems to be so unanimous that to say a kind word about Eileen is nearly enough to commit social suicide.

 

Thoughts that perplex me: (1) Eileen's "sins" were no worse than any other Hollywood sins that are going on right now.  At least hers resulted in a marriage and a family.  (2) LVP had no business bringing up the affair to someone she barely knew.  I would have been offended, too.  (3) It seems past time to forgive Eileen.  She is not Brandi, nor is she Faye or Adrienne or Carlton.  I hope she can come up with a good storyline, and in the meantime, I hope so much that people will remember that Eileen is a human being with feelings that must be getting pretty raw by now. 

 

Please forgive me for being long-winded, and thank you for allowing me to share some of the feelings that have been hurting lately.  XO

[LIMOM]

Like her side kick says"own it!"

Eileen is a jump off, no big deal, IMO.

However, she needs to stop feigning outrage about being called on it.

You don't fuck with somebody's else husband if one, you can't live with yourself and two, can't bear to be called on it.

Edited April 21, 2016 by LIMOM

[ryebread]

eta Maybe it is because while I was reading it I was hearing my friend of 36 years saying, during a time when her life was in complete chaos, that her mother told her she would feel better if she got up and made her bed first thing and then took a shower second thing each morning.

 

Omg. Your friend's mother is my mother.  I also had a low period when my mom said the same thing about taking a shower and getting dressed first thing. 

 

Now, she didn't tell me the part about making my bed.  If she had, maybe the made bed would have discouraged me from laying right back down and wallowing after I'd just showered and dressed. :-) 

 

But yeah, I'm a firm believer in less clutter, less chaos.  And a freshly vacuumed carpet.  Don't have time to clear clutter?  Vacuum.  LOLOL.  I swear it makes a difference in my mood by magically making the room look cleaner.

[ryebread]

 Further, it seems to be so unanimous that to say a kind word about Eileen is nearly enough to commit social suicide.

 

I hear ya. Try defending Yolanda. :-)  I've never been a fan of Eileen's, although I tend to soften toward someone when there's a pile up. Don't fret.  The tide will turn in her favor if she stays. The problem is, I don't think she will.  Either by her choice or Bravo's.  I just don't think she's cut out for this type of reality show.  And that's a good thing!  She seems like a nice enough person who came into this not realizing that an unattractive side was going to be shown.  Either organically or because Bravo can make it happen.  To anyone, at anytime.

[thewhiteowl]

Cheating is a hot button issue for me and I don't think getting married to the one you cheated with or staying married to them is absolution. However they didn't cheat on me so I don't take it personally, I just don't think she needs to be riding that high horse. If she is taking a fall from it I am not feeling her pain. She does seem like a nice person but like me she seems overly sensitive to this issue. Whatever Lisa said or didn't say why the overwhelming need for just the right apology when Lisa was not lying or even revealing anything? I still don't know what made ED mount the high horse and I imagine Lisa doesn't either.

[Baltimore Betty]

Omg. Your friend's mother is my mother.  I also had a low period when my mom said the same thing about taking a shower and getting dressed first thing. 

 

Now, she didn't tell me the part about making my bed.  If she had, maybe the made bed would have discouraged me from laying right back down and wallowing after I'd just showered and dressed. :-) 

 

But yeah, I'm a firm believer in less clutter, less chaos.  And a freshly vacuumed carpet.  Don't have time to clear clutter?  Vacuum.  LOLOL.  I swear it makes a difference in my mood by magically making the room look cleaner.

Laundry. You see the results immediately. Good closure.

[Jel]

Is the other side of the coin welcome to speak, or shall I suffer the wrath of everyone on the board who disagrees, which is just about everyone?  I have no desire to start an argument or to ignite bad feelings in anyone, believe me.  It's merely that I've tried to remain quiet and to take the comments about Eileen to heart, but I haven't expressed some of my own.

 

I totally agree that Eileen went too far with LVP in seeking apology after apology.  The matter could have been settled in one, brief, sincere conversation.  I admit to feeling that LVP's apology was either insincere or too brief, but it was unimportant in the scheme of things.  There had been an apology, whatever it was worth.  It was time to move on.  I do feel, at this point, that Eileen became too influenced by the feelings of her outspoken pal, Little Big Mouth, but there again, the fault or weakness  was Eileen's.  The outcome of all this was a storyline of its own and a bombardment of vitriol against Eileen from fellow HWs, social media members and to some extent, from columnists, but the worst has come, IMHO, on message boards like this one.  Further, it seems to be so unanimous that to say a kind word about Eileen is nearly enough to commit social suicide.

 

Thoughts that perplex me: (1) Eileen's "sins" were no worse than any other Hollywood sins that are going on right now.  At least hers resulted in a marriage and a family.  (2) LVP had no business bringing up the affair to someone she barely knew.  I would have been offended, too.  (3) It seems past time to forgive Eileen.  She is not Brandi, nor is she Faye or Adrienne or Carlton.  I hope she can come up with a good storyline, and in the meantime, I hope so much that people will remember that Eileen is a human being with feelings that must be getting pretty raw by now. 

 

Please forgive me for being long-winded, and thank you for allowing me to share some of the feelings that have been hurting lately.  XO

 

LVP is my fave; and this season, Eileen was, to me, the personification of TL;DR. However, your differing opinion, presented in such a thoughtful, respectful manner -- is not only very welcome, but encouraged!  :)  (And it wasn't long-winded at all).

[WireWrap]

Cheating is a hot button issue for me and I don't think getting married to the one you cheated with or staying married to them is absolution. However they didn't cheat on me so I don't take it personally, I just don't think she needs to be riding that high horse. If she is taking a fall from it I am not feeling her pain. She does seem like a nice person but like me she seems overly sensitive to this issue. Whatever Lisa said or didn't say why the overwhelming need for just the right apology when Lisa was not lying or even revealing anything? I still don't know what made ED mount the high horse and I imagine Lisa doesn't either.

I agree. Lisa apologized about "asking too many questions", which is exactly what Eileen told her had upset her. Each time Lisa has apologized, she apologized for  what Eileen said hurt her but none of them have been good enough despite Eileen telling Lisa they are "fine/good", so I get where Lisa's confusion, then frustration and now anger, comes from.

[Jel]

And mine, Wirewrap -- I can't understand why Eileen is still on it.  I mean sincerely cannot understand. I guess it's basically: I don't accept your apology, LVP. So don't accept it or any apology, whatever, your choice, but don't say you do when you don't.

[LIMOM]

I agree. Lisa apologized about "asking too many questions", which is exactly what Eileen told her had upset her. Each time Lisa has apologized, she apologized for  what Eileen said hurt her but none of them have been good enough despite Eileen telling Lisa they are "fine/good", so I get where Lisa's confusion, then frustration and now anger, comes from.

It is because Eileen hasn't been able to come to term with what she did, IMO.

Her bringing her child to make Lisa feel guilty was laughable.

Hello, he is not dumb, he can see that he has brothers that her mother did not birth.

Eileen was so reaching with that story line.

[SistaLadybug]

I don't think it's up to the viewers to forgive Eileen.  I think she needs to forgive herself.  I don't think she'd be smarting as bad from Lisa's questions if she simply didn't give a fuck that people know that she was an adulterer.  We all know it.  I've known for years because I was a diehard soaps fan and her marriages and affairs were a highly talked about scandal.  This might be the first time the topic has been brought up to such a broad audience, but it certainly isn't the first time she's had to face gossip and questions.  It was so long ago now that reacting with such pearl-clutching is ridiculous - 1) because it's not new, 2) because all parties involved are reconciled, and 3) because YOU DID IT, EILEEN.  You were either fucking and/or emotionally involved with a married man.  You were.  Thank the old gods and the new that y'all are happy now and that all exes have healed and the family is reconciled, but y'all started as an adulterous affair.  You made that choice.  So if you did, and you're fine with what you did and the consequences thereof, hold your head high as would befit Ashley Abbott, look Lisa V in the face and as your friend Rinna would say, OWN IT BABY.  How dare you (TM Eileen herself) get all verklempt about being asked about some grimy stuff you did?  If you think Lisa V was trying to stir shit (and she probably was), tell her so to her face.  And if you think her apology is half-assed, say, "I don't accept it."  And move on.  She does not have to follow the script you write.  This ain't Y&R.

[WireWrap]

It is because Eileen hasn't been able to come to term with what she did, IMO.

Her bringing her child to make Lisa feel guilty was laughable.

Hello, he is not dumb, he can see that he has brothers that her mother did not birth.

Eileen was so reaching with that story line.

I also think this is what led to Rinna changing her stories about where/how Munchausen comes from/up. I think Rinna and Eileen burned up the phones after filming ended each day and as Eileen unloaded on Rinna, Rinna started to change the truth to make it align with Eileen's dislike/distrust of LisaV. I can hear Eileen ask "why" Rinna did it by asking "what" LisaV said to Rinna first. Making Rinna come to the conclusion that she didn't really do anything but was tricked/manipulated into it by LisaV. She had to reach all the way back to the Amsterdam trip last season to get Rinna to "see it". Talk about manipulation, Eileen seems to be a master at it herself.

[RedheadZombie]

Is the other side of the coin welcome to speak, or shall I suffer the wrath of everyone on the board who disagrees, which is just about everyone?  I have no desire to start an argument or to ignite bad feelings in anyone, believe me.  It's merely that I've tried to remain quiet and to take the comments about Eileen to heart, but I haven't expressed some of my own.

 

I totally agree that Eileen went too far with LVP in seeking apology after apology.  The matter could have been settled in one, brief, sincere conversation.  I admit to feeling that LVP's apology was either insincere or too brief, but it was unimportant in the scheme of things.  There had been an apology, whatever it was worth.  It was time to move on.  I do feel, at this point, that Eileen became too influenced by the feelings of her outspoken pal, Little Big Mouth, but there again, the fault or weakness  was Eileen's.  The outcome of all this was a storyline of its own and a bombardment of vitriol against Eileen from fellow HWs, social media members and to some extent, from columnists, but the worst has come, IMHO, on message boards like this one.  Further, it seems to be so unanimous that to say a kind word about Eileen is nearly enough to commit social suicide.

 

Thoughts that perplex me: (1) Eileen's "sins" were no worse than any other Hollywood sins that are going on right now.  At least hers resulted in a marriage and a family.  (2) LVP had no business bringing up the affair to someone she barely knew.  I would have been offended, too.  (3) It seems past time to forgive Eileen.  She is not Brandi, nor is she Faye or Adrienne or Carlton.  I hope she can come up with a good storyline, and in the meantime, I hope so much that people will remember that Eileen is a human being with feelings that must be getting pretty raw by now. 

 

Please forgive me for being long-winded, and thank you for allowing me to share some of the feelings that have been hurting lately.  XO

 

LVP is the Queen Bee around here, and anyone who goes against her is hated.  It can be exhausting making even a well thought out comment about LVP.  I haven't been a fan of Eileen's, but I haven't hated her either.  I actually feel for her because she clearly didn't know the rules.  I fear this show is turning into the NY franchise, where it's all hail Bethenny.  Next season no one will dare question Lisa at all.

 

And as hypocritical as it seems that Eileen expresses concern about protecting her son, I think it's only now that she realizes how the cheating impacted Vince's two boys.  I really think that's the root of her guilt.   Regardless, it seems that Vince's ex and his boys have forgiven her.  The funny part is I was the one making the cheating digs last season, and everyone else was defending Eileen.  Now that Eileen has pitted herself against LVP, people are suddenly clutching their pearls about the infidelity.

 

Please don't be so hesitant to express your opinion.  You don't need anyone's permission to do so.  But I do understand why you feel this way.  Sometimes I'm a little nervous when I log back in and see who's quoting me.  I know I'm in for a pile on, and I have to gear myself up to be "schooled".  But this isn't a fan site, and everyone's fair game.

[zoeysmom]

And mine, Wirewrap -- I can't understand why Eileen is still on it.  I mean sincerely cannot understand. I guess it's basically: I don't accept your apology, LVP. So don't accept it or any apology, whatever, your choice, but don't say you do when you don't.

I can't believe I am doing this but here goes, Yolanda said something that rang true.  There are some things an apology doesn't suffice.  She specifically spoke of Brandi speaking of Bella.   Maybe Eileen should have been more honest and just accepted the fact there really was no way for her or her family to get past LVP's comments.

 

LVP felt  the same way about Kyle Season 3-she could never get past Kyle not defending her.  All LVP kept saying is the relationship has changed.  Kyle was the patient one, moving forward and accepting LVP's stance.

 

I think it is okay to have someone apologize and not forgive or forget.  It is how you treat them after the fact.  In the case of Yolanda and Brandi, Yolanda has no qualms in keeping Brandi on her real friends list even if she does say insensitive things.  Eileen might have tried continuing her relationship with LVP and not look for a diversion to try and satisfy her anger towards LVP.

[kokapetl]

I also think this is what led to Rinna changing her stories about where/how Munchausen comes from/up. I think Rinna and Eileen burned up the phones after filming ended each day and as Eileen unloaded on Rinna, Rinna started to change the truth to make it align with Eileen's dislike/distrust of LisaV. I can hear Eileen ask "why" Rinna did it by asking "what" LisaV said to Rinna first. Making Rinna come to the conclusion that she didn't really do anything but was tricked/manipulated into it by LisaV. She had to reach all the way back to the Amsterdam trip last season to get Rinna to "see it". Talk about manipulation, Eileen seems to be a master at it herself.

Lisar and Eileen do corroborate each other. Kyle pleading on the boat with Lisa didn't corroborate their own current narratives.

[kokapetl]

I can't believe I am doing this but here goes, Yolanda said something that rang true. There are some things an apology doesn't suffice. She specifically spoke of Brandi speaking of Bella. Maybe Eileen should have been more honest and just accepted the fact there really was no way for her or her family to get past LVP's comments.

LVP felt the same way about Kyle Season 3-she could never get past Kyle not defending her. All LVP kept saying is the relationship has changed. Kyle was the patient one, moving forward and accepting LVP's stance.

I think it is okay to have someone apologize and not forgive or forget. It is how you treat them after the fact. In the case of Yolanda and Brandi, Yolanda has no qualms in keeping Brandi on her real friends list even if she does say insensitive things. Eileen might have tried continuing her relationship with LVP and not look for a diversion to try and satisfy her anger towards LVP.

The beautiful people in Hollywood have affairs so often that I can't believe she feels any shame for having an affair with a guy she ended up marrying. She either feared a backlash from the "Okie from Muskogee" viewers or she was acting on the explicit instructions from the producers.

[RHJunkie]

Lisar and Eileen do corroborate each other. Kyle pleading on the boat with Lisa didn't corroborate their own current narratives.

Well of course LR and Eileen corroborate each other.  Eileen has not been a witness to any of the scenarios that the other three women are talking about. Eileen is regurgitating the information as it was presented to her by LR. Her idea of advocating for truth is apparently based on simply believing someone's version of it. Eileen was never involved so the fact that she's having talking about telling the truth means that she would be telling someone's truth...it's just not her own.

 

LVP and Kyle's disagreement was a case of 'what I said' vs. 'what I meant'.  

[WireWrap]

I can't believe I am doing this but here goes, Yolanda said something that rang true.  There are some things an apology doesn't suffice.  She specifically spoke of Brandi speaking of Bella.   Maybe Eileen should have been more honest and just accepted the fact there really was no way for her or her family to get past LVP's comments.

 

LVP felt  the same way about Kyle Season 3-she could never get past Kyle not defending her.  All LVP kept saying is the relationship has changed.  Kyle was the patient one, moving forward and accepting LVP's stance.

 

I think it is okay to have someone apologize and not forgive or forget.  It is how you treat them after the fact.  In the case of Yolanda and Brandi, Yolanda has no qualms in keeping Brandi on her real friends list even if she does say insensitive things.  Eileen might have tried continuing her relationship with LVP and not look for a diversion to try and satisfy her anger towards LVP.

I also think that Eileen beat around the bush about why she was upset to begin with, then Lisa taking her at her word, apologized for what Eileen said she was upset about and is what caused us to be on the path we find ourselves on. Eileen was never honest with Lisa and Lisa didn't look deep enough to see she was still hurt and inquire further. Lisa didn't repeat the offending behavior which means that at the very least, she understood she hurt Eileen and would not do it again.

Edited April 21, 2016 by WireWrap

[LIMOM]

The beautiful people in Hollywood have affairs so often that I can't believe she feels any shame for having an affair with a guy she ended up marrying. She either feared a backlash from the "Okie from Muskogee" viewers or she was acting on the explicit instructions from the producers.

Lol.

She is plenty self righteous. No need to insult people from Muskogee. Gee. ;-)

[luleetuni]

All of this would probably not even made the show had Eileen just said "no. We got together later" and kept moving. The being married three times seemed more shocking to the other women. She could have then off screen said something to Lisa. That would have left Eileen with no storyline though.

[RedheadZombie]

What I wish was that at the time it happened that Eileen could have realized that Lisa was trying to romanticize and take away the stigma of the way she got with Vinny. When I watched that was what I got from it. I thought the same thing when Lisa was in the limo with Erika and asking questions about her and Tom. Why don't these ladies on the show understand how Getting to know you works? 

 .

I don't think Eileen will realize that because she doesn't believe it's true. I know I don't.

[RHJunkie]

What I wish was that at the time it happened that Eileen could have realized that Lisa was trying to romanticize and take away the stigma of the way she got with Vinny. When I watched that was what I got from it. I thought the same thing when Lisa was in the limo with Erika and asking questions about her and Tom. Why don't these ladies on the show understand how Getting to know you works? 

 

I like Eileen but she is so damn exhausting, even without the LVP feud! She is an emotional woman, who wears her heart on her sleeve, has a little bit of helicopter parenting going on that I think is making her even more scattered and I wish she would just calm the hell down and not make every.single.thing. A MOMENT! I think Vinny would agree with me, so there's that. haha

 

I would love to see her back next season without Rinna. For me, Rinna is the weakest link on the show. There is something wrong with her.

 

I think it's giving LVP too much credit to just assume that her questions were very innocent. I don't think LVP asked the questions in an effort to shame or humiliate Eileen but I don't believe she asked those questions without any consideration that it may make Eileen uncomfortable. LVP said she didn't think it was a big deal to ask since Eileen already talked about it and it was already out there - but at the same time, could there have been zero consideration for the possibility that maybe it would make Eileen uncomfortable to have it address the topic AGAIN? LVP isn't completely innocent here. LVP did offer an apology but usually when one offers an apology, they show some vulnerability that suggests remorse. LVP doesn't apologize that way, on this show it seems that she's not capable of giving apologies the way you would normally expect from someone who is actually sorry. But that's besides the point. She did apologize, whether Eileen thought it was sincere or not is besides the point. You either accept it or not, but don't sidestep the issue of why you were upset, then lie multiple times about being 'good' about things and then come back later with explosive behaviour about not getting an apology. 

 

Any opportunity Eileen had to expose LVP for what she thinks she is was completely squandered by her inability to appropriately confront and address her concerns, and all of the subsequent attempts at 'closure'. She's getting backlash because she's made herself look desperate to take LVP down- so much so that she's buried a lot of possibly good points under a huge hill that not many will dig to uncover. 

[RHJunkie]

I am open to discussion but I am horrible at debating so bear with me! I want to discuss the sentence I highlighted in your post. Am I wrong to think that it supports my opinion that LV wanted to take away Eileen's being uncomfortable? Can you know that something makes someone else uncomfortable and yet not have ill intent towards that person by bringing up the subject? Because I do believe that Lisa's intent was to help Eileen be able to talk openly about her marriage and how it began without getting upset. Lisa used flattering words, talked of love, and wanted details of how a love affair starts. I think Lisa was not in the wrong to broach the subject. Eileen was not wrong to later tell Lisa it bothered her. She was wrong to then stew on it and let it take on a life of its own because even if Eileen didn't get the "correct" apology, she did get Lisa to change her behavior about the subject. Lisa did not broach it again! She respected that it bothered Eileen! Isn't that worth more, the old cliche Actions speak louder than words, in the long run than a "correct" apology? I don't hate Eileen, I am a fan of Lisa, yet I do like to think that I can see clearly what happens in scenes and be impartial. 

 

Just to prove I am not a Lisabot, I think it is disgusting how she kisses dogs full on the mouth! haha And I am a dog freak but draw the line at kissing them!

 

So I guess this post shows that I am horrible at debating as stated but I am fluent at thinking out loud. 

 

I understood you perfectly fine :)

 

In the highlighted sentence, I was suggesting that it's very possible that LVP knew that the questions may make Eileen uncomfortable but she asked them anywhere. I personally wouldn't take offense to someone asking me about anything that I've already put out there but I understand how Eileen would not have appreciated it. Knowing that those kind of topics are sensitive (public or not), I think LVP could have avoided the entire thing by prefacing her questions with a disclaimer of sort to let Eileen know that she wanted to get to know her more personally and to just tell her to stop if she doesn't like it for whatever reason. Though LVP doesn't think like that, lol. At least had LVP acknowledged that it was a sensitive situation, Eileen may have appreciated the gesture as one of a friend. 

[zoeysmom]

This same discussion is going on over on the episode thread.  I have been curious since the words came out of LVP's mouth what and why she chose those words wih Eileen.  I doubt it was so she could spend the rest of the season in Eileen' sights.  What was LVP's intent in using the word affair?

[walnutqueen]

I am open to discussion but I am horrible at debating so bear with me! I want to discuss the sentence I highlighted in your post. Am I wrong to think that it supports my opinion that LV wanted to take away Eileen's being uncomfortable? Can you know that something makes someone else uncomfortable and yet not have ill intent towards that person by bringing up the subject? Because I do believe that Lisa's intent was to help Eileen be able to talk openly about her marriage and how it began without getting upset. Lisa used flattering words, talked of love, and wanted details of how a love affair starts. I think Lisa was not in the wrong to broach the subject. Eileen was not wrong to later tell Lisa it bothered her. She was wrong to then stew on it and let it take on a life of its own because even if Eileen didn't get the "correct" apology, she did get Lisa to change her behavior about the subject. Lisa did not broach it again! She respected that it bothered Eileen! Isn't that worth more, the old cliche Actions speak louder than words, in the long run than a "correct" apology? I don't hate Eileen, I am a fan of Lisa, yet I do like to think that I can see clearly what happens in scenes and be impartial. 

 

Just to prove I am not a Lisabot, I think it is disgusting how she kisses dogs full on the mouth! haha And I am a dog freak but draw the line at kissing them!

 

So I guess this post shows that I am horrible at debating as stated but I am fluent at thinking out loud. 

 

I'm on board with everything except kissing the dogs - I'd happily let a strange dog slip me the tongue, but draw the line at any such human contact!  :-)

[LIMOM]

This same discussion is going on over on the episode thread.  I have been curious since the words came out of LVP's mouth what and why she chose those words wih Eileen.  I doubt it was so she could spend the rest of the season in Eileen' sights.  What was LVP's intent in using the word affair?

What if, it was simply innocent?

Love affair is ambiguous language, IMO. Lisa could have simply inquired about how the two of them meet.

It is not her problem that Eileen started dating Vince when he was with somebody' s else.

Wtf cares anyways????

This reminds me when I met a woman in a playgroup and we were all talking about how we met our partners and she went on to disclose that she married her former fiancé' brother.

Bitch, what?

Same shit.

[motorcitymom65]

What if, it was simply innocent?

Love affair is ambiguous language, IMO. Lisa could have simply inquired about how the two of them meet.

It is not her problem that Eileen started dating Vince when he was with somebody' s else.

Wtf cares anyways????

This reminds me when I met a woman in a playgroup and we were all talking about how we met our partners and she went on to disclose that she married her former fiancé' brother.

Bitch, what?

Same shit.

It's just so hard to believe it to be completely innocent, unless LVP just wasn't paying attention last season.

Yes, it came up last season. It was brought up by Brandi, because it was already known. Eileen very politely answered the questions at the time. She also said at the reunion that talking about it was painful. She said she had to have conversations with her son. She said it brought back the pain for everyone involved, even though they had all moved on and had a lovely relationship in the present. I thought she did a pretty good job of acknowledging that she was on a Reality TV show and her life was fair game and that she had played the game. She didn't hide the truth, which didn't change the fact that it was still painful to do. Was LVP not paying attention to what she said at the reunion? Why would she bring it up again if she understood as most people did that it was something Eileen would rather not discuss?

The other thing to remember is what some have said about LVP - that she is very different off camera. That she is standoffish. That she tends to not engage much with the others until the cameras are rolling. If Eileen's experience with LVP was that she hadn't shown much interest in getting to know her off camera, it would feel strange to have her suddenly asking these questions on camera. Why the sudden interest in my love life, Lisa? LVP was surprised to hear that Eileen had been married 3 times. Eileen said that everyone knew that because it had already been discussed. Yet LVP seemed to use it as a springboard to ask more questions. I think Eileen's anger came from the fact that she believed LVP was setting her up to be uncomfortable. Not that she had an honest interest in helping her sanitize the "affair".

[LIMOM]

^^

I see what you are saying, it would have been so much better if Eileen would have just either ignored it or let it go sooner.

LVP is the star of this show and can't stand to be challenged.

Eileen is a star in her own right but shit can she over-act and over reach.

At least, it was a relief from Yoyo's fake tragedy.

Eileen is too established for this crap, it is a shame that she is even part of the show.

What a step down for her.

[WireWrap]

It's just so hard to believe it to be completely innocent, unless LVP just wasn't paying attention last season.

Yes, it came up last season. It was brought up by Brandi, because it was already known. Eileen very politely answered the questions at the time. She also said at the reunion that talking about it was painful. She said she had to have conversations with her son. She said it brought back the pain for everyone involved, even though they had all moved on and had a lovely relationship in the present. I thought she did a pretty good job of acknowledging that she was on a Reality TV show and her life was fair game and that she had played the game. She didn't hide the truth, which didn't change the fact that it was still painful to do. Was LVP not paying attention to what she said at the reunion? Why would she bring it up again if she understood as most people did that it was something Eileen would rather not discuss?

The other thing to remember is what some have said about LVP - that she is very different off camera. That she is standoffish. That she tends to not engage much with the others until the cameras are rolling. If Eileen's experience with LVP was that she hadn't shown much interest in getting to know her off camera, it would feel strange to have her suddenly asking these questions on camera. Why the sudden interest in my love life, Lisa? LVP was surprised to hear that Eileen had been married 3 times. Eileen said that everyone knew that because it had already been discussed. Yet LVP seemed to use it as a springboard to ask more questions. I think Eileen's anger came from the fact that she believed LVP was setting her up to be uncomfortable. Not that she had an honest interest in helping her sanitize the "affair".

Honestly, I don't think LisaV pays attention. Last seasons reunion was volatile with all the Brandi/Kim going for Kyle's throat that Eileen's story could be overlooked/forgotten easily. Was she wrong to bring up the affair, probably, but I don't think she thought it was as big a deal as the others, most especially Eileen. Then when Eileen finally sat her down and told her she was upset but was most likely over reacting, LisaV apologized to her for what Eileen, herself, said was what upset her. Maybe if Eileen had been more honest and direct she would have gotten the exact apology that she demanded/wanted, instead she downplayed it herself and got apologies based on what she, herself, said.

[RHJunkie]

It's just so hard to believe it to be completely innocent, unless LVP just wasn't paying attention last season.

Yes, it came up last season. It was brought up by Brandi, because it was already known. Eileen very politely answered the questions at the time. She also said at the reunion that talking about it was painful. She said she had to have conversations with her son. She said it brought back the pain for everyone involved, even though they had all moved on and had a lovely relationship in the present. I thought she did a pretty good job of acknowledging that she was on a Reality TV show and her life was fair game and that she had played the game. She didn't hide the truth, which didn't change the fact that it was still painful to do. Was LVP not paying attention to what she said at the reunion? Why would she bring it up again if she understood as most people did that it was something Eileen would rather not discuss?

The other thing to remember is what some have said about LVP - that she is very different off camera. That she is standoffish. That she tends to not engage much with the others until the cameras are rolling. If Eileen's experience with LVP was that she hadn't shown much interest in getting to know her off camera, it would feel strange to have her suddenly asking these questions on camera. Why the sudden interest in my love life, Lisa? LVP was surprised to hear that Eileen had been married 3 times. Eileen said that everyone knew that because it had already been discussed. Yet LVP seemed to use it as a springboard to ask more questions. I think Eileen's anger came from the fact that she believed LVP was setting her up to be uncomfortable. Not that she had an honest interest in helping her sanitize the "affair".

 

When LR was repeating Ken's comments about her, LVP said 'I don't think he called you a wanker'. Ken said the words to LVP, they made it to camera and LVP questioned whether he actually used that term. Safe to say, as humans, we forget sometimes. I thought LVP's questions to Erika came off sounding far more harsh than toward Eileen as it a 'gold digger' type of nature to it though LVP was complimentary of Erika and Tom as a couple afterward. I don't think every single word or question has to have an ulterior motive. I'm sorry, I just don't and I would say the same for all of the women. I could turn all of the women's comments into something nasty, it doesn't mean that was the meaning behind their words.

 

And to the second point, LVP has built relationships OFF camera as well (Joyce, Kathryn, Taylor, Carlton and she continues to work on her friendship with Kyle on and off screen). If LVP is standoffish to some of the women, it's not fair to make that as a blanket statement when it doesn't apply to all of them. LVP works several jobs and has another show, maybe she simply gives more time to the women she gets along better with or there is a mutual interest in knowing and supporting each other. Some friendships take longer to build because you don't always have an immediate fondness for someone. And to end this point, if your scenario did in fact apply to LVP and Eileen, why in the world would Eileen refer to LVP as her 'friend' and feeling hurt because she didn't expect that from a friend?

[zoeysmom]

It's just so hard to believe it to be completely innocent, unless LVP just wasn't paying attention last season.

Yes, it came up last season. It was brought up by Brandi, because it was already known. Eileen very politely answered the questions at the time. She also said at the reunion that talking about it was painful. She said she had to have conversations with her son. She said it brought back the pain for everyone involved, even though they had all moved on and had a lovely relationship in the present. I thought she did a pretty good job of acknowledging that she was on a Reality TV show and her life was fair game and that she had played the game. She didn't hide the truth, which didn't change the fact that it was still painful to do. Was LVP not paying attention to what she said at the reunion? Why would she bring it up again if she understood as most people did that it was something Eileen would rather not discuss?

The other thing to remember is what some have said about LVP - that she is very different off camera. That she is standoffish. That she tends to not engage much with the others until the cameras are rolling. If Eileen's experience with LVP was that she hadn't shown much interest in getting to know her off camera, it would feel strange to have her suddenly asking these questions on camera. Why the sudden interest in my love life, Lisa? LVP was surprised to hear that Eileen had been married 3 times. Eileen said that everyone knew that because it had already been discussed. Yet LVP seemed to use it as a springboard to ask more questions. I think Eileen's anger came from the fact that she believed LVP was setting her up to be uncomfortable. Not that she had an honest interest in helping her sanitize the "affair".

That is why I am curious about what others think about the "why" in LVP's words.

 

I will say LVP got off to a rocky start, in Italy plying Kyle with questions to the point one of the Umansky kids had to ask her to stop.

A repeat in the Hamptons with Eileen.

Two days later she bombards Erika for the second time.

Her go to response from anyone questioning her conversation is, ask me anything I have nothing to hide.  Which is misdirection at its finest.

 

Does she think it helps move the show along?  I don't see LVP as the type to hit a sacrifice fly to allow the others to score. 

Maybe LVP doesn't really watch the show (as she lived it).  Because only a moron would not understand Eileen's comments to Brandi about "hanging up" on the conversation about she and Vince.  Eileen cited exactly why she would not discuss it.  It I not as if when Eileen was talking LVP was out taking a smoke break.  How anyone could deem further inquiry on the matter was in anyway appropriate is beyond me.  So Eileen, although arduous and tedious may get an answer as to the why.  This isn't really covering new territory for LVP, she did it Season 4 to Kyle and then acted as if she was clueless as she "defended" Kyle.  Kyle and Mauricio would not have needed defending if LVP didn't keep furthering the conversation.

 

Puzzling. 

[Satchels of gold]

I personally don't care about Elieens infidelity, she's a grown up, things happen, but I strongly disagree that she is wracked with guilt over it. She has done nothing but call attention to it all season. I really don't understand why she didn't let that go and cross her fingers that it would be edited out. She seemed to be doing the opposite ,to what end I don't know.

[LIMOM]

I personally don't care about Elieens infidelity, she's a grown up, things happen, but I strongly disagree that she is wracked with guilt over it. She has done nothing but call attention to it all season. I really don't understand why she didn't let that go and cross her fingers that it would be edited out. She seemed to be doing the opposite ,to what end I don't know.

To seal a spot on the show is my guess.

While Yoyo called herself a workhorse, it seems to me that Eileen is the one working her ass off.

[zoeysmom]

I personally don't care about Elieens infidelity, she's a grown up, things happen, but I strongly disagree that she is wracked with guilt over it. She has done nothing but call attention to it all season. I really don't understand why she didn't let that go and cross her fingers that it would be edited out. She seemed to be doing the opposite ,to what end I don't know.

R-E-S-O-L-U-T-I-O-N.  Don'tcha know?  I am kidding.  I think Eileen wants absolution not resolution.   I don't think she is racked with guilt over the affair either, I do think Eileen does not want to be seen as dancing on the grave of Betsy and Vince's marriage regaling in stories of she and  Vince's first kiss.  So on one hand she doesn't want to talk about it and on the other she wants LVP to apologize for discounting the feelings of the innocents involved with her insensitive inquiries.

 

BTW is there any reason Eileen could not have taken LVP aside off camera and blasted her and resolved the issue?  If it is truly that sensitive to her grab LVP aside and read her the riot act with all the appropriate words and have some fake rehash on camera.  Apparently, LVP takes and makes phone calls as well.

[RHJunkie]

R-E-S-O-L-U-T-I-O-N.  Don'tcha know?  I am kidding.  I think Eileen wants absolution not resolution.   I don't think she is racked with guilt over the affair either, I do think Eileen does not want to be seen as dancing on the grave of Betsy and Vince's marriage regaling in stories of she and  Vince's first kiss.  So on one hand she doesn't want to talk about it and on the other she wants LVP to apologize for discounting the feelings of the innocents involved with her insensitive inquiries.

 

BTW is there any reason Eileen could not have taken LVP aside off camera and blasted her and resolved the issue?  If it is truly that sensitive to her grab LVP aside and read her the riot act with all the appropriate words and have some fake rehash on camera.  Apparently, LVP takes and makes phone calls as well.

Are the feelings of the innocent more affected by the questions asked or the answers being given? Are the feelings of the innocent more affected by a stranger asking the questions to their family or their family engaging?

 

The way a situation unfolds is based on the interaction of the many, not the one. For all the reasons why LVP was in the wrong for her questions, did Eileen handle any of it well in the moment or after the fact? Engaging in a conversation that you feel is damaging to your loved ones - that's on Eileen. Not addressing the actual issue she had with LVP's questions - that's on Eileen. Saying that the situation was done and settled but feeling the opposite - that's on Eileen. Many times the women have refused to share or engage on certain topics or stories. I can understand Eileen trying to be open but if she's that concerned or uncomfortable, the onus was on her to put a stop to it. We are only responsible for our words, actions and feelings. If she had been true to herself from the get go this would have been over at the get go because LVP wouldn't have gotten past her second question.

 

Eileen's behavior exhibited all of the stereotypical qualities that men accuse women of having - not saying what you really mean and expecting people to read your feelings rather than accept your words.