S02.E10: Magnum Opus

[RiddleyWalker]

You're right. In the pilot episode, Crane said he originally was a British soldier, but he had a change of heart and defected.

 

The show has become very sloppy this season. I know there are a lot of new writers, but shouldn't they be required to master the basic foundational aspects of each character before writing a script? 

I find it fascinating that Abraham Van Brunt, a Dutch name if there ever was one and initially a descendant (presumably) of the Dutch colonists in New York in Washington Irving's story is now--along with Katrina Van Tassel--of noble English birth.  What the hell? 

Edited November 26, 2014 by RiddleyWalker

[vanarnd1]

For me this episode was an improvement from previous weeks, because it was mostly Crane and Abbie.interacting and working together. For some reason though, the writers have been trying to make it harder and harder to like Ichabod. He was extremely inconsistent in this episode, trying to rub it in to Abbie how Katrina was helpful(of course she ended up tipping off Henry where they were going) and being self absorbed with his destiny/ongoing love triangle while Abbie is reminded of people in her family who are actually gone and not coming back. I really felt for her when she let her guard down and showed frustration and sadness over what has happened to her ancestors and it just makes the CFD seem even more ridiculous in comparison.

 

And there were good Ichabbie moments mixed in the episode but for me they are harder to enjoy when taking the entire season into account. It is amazing how the writers could disrupt such natural chemistry between Beharie and Mison but they are certainly trying their best to mess with the formula.

 

I am really just hoping for some kind of big shake up next week, but I am not sure if that will happen at this point.

[slayer2]

This show is boring and stupid. I'm laying it at the altar of the red-bottled witch and her wannabe goth-loving son (kid's got more daddy issues than Klaus Mikaelson). It started out with Supernatural proportions of awesomeness and a possibility for a really cool mythology but this is like what would happen if they separated Sam and Dean in Season 1 and made Sam spend the next two seasons trying to bring his dead girlfriend back from the grave. Well, I can't. Fuck this, man. I'm out. See you in the chatty rooms. ('cause I may quit the show but I can't quit you).

Edited November 26, 2014 by slayer2

[pcta]

>I still have no idea whatsoever how Crane and Mills having each other helped them get the sword out of the container. Or was he referring to getting TO the container in the first place?

I believe it needed 2 (2 witnesses) to complete the magical task

>The irritating parts - wait, so now Abraham was the reason that Ichabod came to America and switched sides. I thought he was already here as a British soldier.

Abraham convinced him to give up his Professor job in England and go to the colonies as a soldier

Later, it seems, he convinced him to leave the army (get rid of the red coat) and join the rebels

[lisaloopner]

Hawley, IMO, has been more useful in a handful of episodes -- both in terms of physical assistance and comic relief-- than Katrina has been in 2 seasons. His actions do not distract or undermine Team Witness and, despite his pining for Abbie, his presence does not disrupt Ichabbie chemistry. Hawley was dropped in and hilarity ensued.  When he's around Hawley, Ichabod becomes amusing. On top of that Matt Barr is actually a decent actor.

 

 

I know people can see the same things differently, but such polar opposites. Nothing could be more different from what goes on on our set. We take turns coming up with T-shirt slogans we want to send to the wardrobe department for his costumes. my favorites are:

"WHITE MALE JENNY SUBSTITUTE"

"THIRD WHEEL" on the front,"FIFTH WHEEL" on the back

"FAILED 1980'S MADE-FOR-CABLE ACTION HERO"

"HERE, LET ME DO THAT FOR YOU"

"MY FRIENDS WENT TO CANCUN AND ALL THEY BROUGHT ME WAS THIS LOUSY T-SHIRT, WHO AM I KIDDING I DON'T HAVE ANY FRIENDS"

"2014 MANSPLAINING CHAMPIONSHIP" on the front, "EVEN MAINSPLAINS TO MEN!" on the back

"ILLINOIS SMITH"

"THE TRIANGULATOR"

 

>I still have no idea whatsoever how Crane and Mills having each other helped them get the sword out of the container. Or was he referring to getting TO the container in the first place?

I believe it needed 2 (2 witnesses) to complete the magical task

 

 

In what way?

[cynic]

I don't normally care for Abraham, but I enjoyed him this episode. I loved the fencing flashback and liked seeing Crane and him actually acting like friends. (Abraham was such a pompous douche in first season that I couldn't fathom why Ichabod would keep company with him.)

I also liked it when Abraham lamented that he was supposed to be the hero of the story. It made me think that I would probably enjoy him more if he had been shown to have better motivations for hating Crane - perhaps if Abraham had been a revolutionary zealot who felt usurped and betrayed by Washington choosing Crane who he believed unworthy (somewhat mirroring Abbie being a witness instead of Jenny, but instead of them coming to terms with it like the sisters) Abraham turns coat and that act of treason somehow leads him to the situation of becoming Death. That would work better for me, the road to hell being paved with good intentions and all. I want to like him, bug I just can't get behind his whole goal in his unlife is lameass Katrina.

Then again, Crane is flipped for her too. His love better end up being a result of witchcraft though. That's the only thing that will save this storyline for me.

[BlueJay81]

Henry ordering Death around just seems silly to me. He is the Horsemen of Death, technically isn't he the most powerful? I expect Henry to be ordering Moloch around next. So far there is absolutely no indication that Henry is reedemable so they should just drop that plot or find a supernatural exorcist.  Why is Henry so powerful (before he became a minion of Moloch) when his father is apparently an ordinary human and his mother doesn't seem that powerful.

 

The whole thing with Irving is so contrived. He didn't even intentionally sell his soul, it was essentially stolen by Henry so that makes the whole guilt, I did it for my family thing  so unbelievable and unnecessary. And his family has not even made an appearance at all this season (not that i want to see them).

 

The dialogue between Abby and Ichabod about knowing yourself was rather repetitive and annoying.

[Enero]

I agree with others. Henry ordering around Death was ridiculous. I thought Moloch was running the show as well.

Is there a reason why Katrina is still with Henry other than the fact that he's her son and she's still trying to save him? Because everything she was supposed to do as an infiltrator has failed. Heck, she hasn't even attempted to do anything. All we've seen her do is gather some herbs and try and reason with her BSC demon loving son. She has not done anything to help herself or the witnesses.

I fear that Irving will be called to duty with blowing of the evil horn. Didn't Abraham say the horn will draw all of Moloch's servants to him? Speaking of Abraham, though his reasons for going evil are ridiculous, I sympathize more with him than Crane. Also Crane blamed Abraham losing Katrina on him (Abraham) choosing to serve Moloch, isn't that a retcon? In S1 it was shown that Abraham went dark only AFTER he learned that Katrina and Ichabod had betrayed him. Furthermore while Crane was reprimanding Abraham about his choices, I thought look in the mirror. I might've missed it but has he ever acknowledged the huge role his betrayal of Abraham played in this mess, that a large part of what has happened goes back to his (and Katrina's) choices?

Abbie and Crane had some good moments in this episode, but I couldn't help but feel that it should've been Jenny/Abbie, when Abbie was expressing her sadness and frustration about the history of her family, particularly the women.

This episode was a lot stronger than the previous I think that was mainly due to the show getting back to basics eta. the original OTPs from S1 - Abbie, Crane, Jenny, Irving and even Katrina (though much less so).

Edited November 26, 2014 by Enero

[fantique]

ETA:  Van Tassel is a stripper name.

Oh.My.God! that is too funny. 

 

 I would like to see him redeemed to be honest - at least his soul move on, and someone else can inhabit headless.

 

 I though the 'weight of his conscience" caused him to turncoat, NOT a friend. I don't know man - can Crane think for himself? He seems....lost and directionless.

One good thing about this duel is that now Headless won't be wishy-washy. He has decided to fully embrace his role as Death so maybe he will start acting like he has a spine and testicles. I am disappointed that it seems like Ichabod's decisions to make the "right" choice are all dictated by others. It's making me doubt that he's such an honourable man.

 

My DVR screwed up and cut off the last couple minutes--right when Ichabod drew the sword (although weirdly it had nothing to do with Ferguson--it just decided to stop working) so I don't know if that was the real ending or not....  It seemed weak for a fall finale--is there another episode I missed the previews for?  It sounds like most of us will have to be watching the show again on Hulu or Demand...

This was part 1 of the finale.

 

But I'm guessing since we see Irving running around in the thick of stuff it will probably be him.  Especially since I noticed he was credited third this episode in the opening instead of witch chick.

Funny, at the beginning of season one I got the impression that Headless was a Hessian and not a British soldier.  Mind must be going.   Anyway interesting back story because in season one I thought they just met in the New World for the first time.  All so confusing.

Orlando Jones has always been 3rd in the opening credits. He dressed as a Hessian on the Battlefield after he died and became Death.

 

Firstly, I thought that was a great way to launch us into the second part of the finale. This episode had a season 1 feel and that is really good to have.

 

• I am enthusiastic that getting the Ichy/Abe confrontation out of the way is making it clear he will stick to his moloch guns.

 

• I was ok with Katrina, she got smart with Henry and he himself is commenting on her being woefully incompetent. (Does it make me petty that I want to make a gif of her saying "I have failed my mission") 

 

• I like Ichabod but but this episode was a major demolition of his character. Most of the things I appreciated about him were established as untrue in this episode. The backstory with Abe wasn't necessarily a retcon because it wasn't previously told differently but the implications here go against what I felt was a given. I also hated that first Abbie says it's her quest... then 10 minutes later, actually it's his. I didn't want to say it but I will, Ichabod felt very annoying trying to get in on the destinny by being the one to get the sword. It felt like Abbie is all like "I fought my demons, won those battles and it's all led me here. I am sure I can do this" whereas Ichabod is all "I am not sure what I'm doing but this is surely about me". I also wanted Abbie to pull out the sword. Or it could have been a cool tv moment to have them both pull the sword out and hold it up.

 

• Ideally, the witnesses should always have a common goal and quest anyway, and if one of them takes it more personally, the other should just say "what's your quest is mine and I will follow you and help you". The whole point of the show is based on them working together. I really like that they showed how they are both intellectual equals that have complementary qualities. They complete each other wrt methods of solving problems. 

 

• I liked the Gorgon, I liked the idea of needing to know oneself, I enjoyed having a Mr&Mrs BAMF segment and looking forward to see them in the middle of the action next week. I thought the fight between Death/Abraham and Ichabod was cool and I actually liked the idea of using two enemies to destroy each other. I also liked that, while clumsily presented, the idea with the oil on top of the water is that they should be united and that their advantage resides in being a team. I hope that means a decrease in the conflict between them especially when one side presents the argument so badly I just can't side with them. 

 

• I really enjoyed Abbie's really natural moment of panic about her destiny being to die before her time like so many women of her family. It was believable.

Edited November 26, 2014 by fantique

[fantique]

I find it fascinating that Abraham Van Brunt, a Dutch name if there ever was one and initially a descendant (presumably) of the Dutch colonists in New York in Washington Irving's story is now--along with Katrina Van Tassel--of noble English birth.  What the hell? 

Katrina was a quaker and of modest origins, which is why her family married her to Abraham. Although it makes no sense for quakers to go for financially oriented unions. Actually, I think they decided to completely erase the quaker part.

As for Abraham, immigration is a part of history and cultural evolution, french nobility lived at English, Spanish, Duct, Portuguese and German courts. It's not unbelievable that a noble Dutch family established themselves in England and kept those titles.

[phoenics]

Two points for me:

1) I absolutely loathed that a shofar was used to herald Armageddon. The shofar blows in the Jewish New Year, Rosh Hoshanah. It is, for me at least, very sacred and cool. Geez, pick Gabriel's trumpet if you had to go Biblical!

2) Was it just me or was there a definite hoyay vibe between Ichabod and Abraham? Or was the swordplay just a metaphor? ;-)

Don't know about hoyay but they def had more chemistry and ease in their scenes than Crane and StruggleWitch.

[phoenics]

I agree with others. Henry ordering around Death was ridiculous. I thought Moloch was running the show as well.

Is there a reason why Katrina is still with Henry other than the fact that he's her son and she's still trying to save him? Because everything she was supposed to do as an infiltrator has failed. Heck, she hasn't even attempted to do anything. All we've seen her do is gather some herbs and try and reason with her BSC demon loving son. She has not done anything to help herself or the witnesses.

You can't have a "save Katrina" episode without putting her in danger can you? Since Katrina is obviously so fragile when she gets to Team Witness again I say they put her in a pocket dimension for her safety.

I hate all of the scree time devoted to this useless character.

I fear that Irving will be called to duty with blowing of the evil horn. Didn't Abraham say the horn will draw all of Moloch's servants to him? Speaking of Abraham, though his reasons for going evil are ridiculous, I sympathize more with him than Crane. Also Crane blamed Abraham losing Katrina on him (Abraham) choosing to serve Moloch, isn't that a retcon? In S1 it was shown that Abraham went dark only AFTER he learned that Katrina and Ichabod had betrayed him. Furthermore while Crane was reprimanding Abraham about his choices, I thought look in the mirror. I might've missed it but has he ever acknowledged the huge role his betrayal of Abraham played in this mess, that a large part of what has happened goes back to his (and Katrina's) choices?

This is what irritated me the most because I feel like the writers were trying to show Ichabod "Knowing himself so well" that he would absolve himself of all guilt and blame for Abraham's fate. I thought this was awful. They had Ichabod utter that he wanted redemption for Abraham but it was ONE throwaway line and we have NEVER seen him or Katrina worried at all about redeeming Abraham even though they are more responsible for his fate than Henry's.

It felt like the writers were trying to squash the CFD backlash by having Ivhabod throw that bone.

Nope. Not buying it. Ichabod and Katrina are still playing God and are jerks.

This episode was a lot stronger than the previous I think that was mainly due to the show getting back to basics eta. the original OTPs from S1 - Abbie, Crane, Jenny, Irving and even Katrina (though much less so).

I am worried the magic is gone for me. I'm still to pissed at Crane (who now needs Abbie to prop him up?) to feel any feels right now. He just annoys the hell out of me.

[tv echo]

I'm tired of hating - it's too exhausting, so here goes...

 

I really liked this episode.  It was back to Ichabod and Abbie as a team, working together to find the sword, each contributing useful information and suggestions.  I was also glad that - considering how much criticism Ichabod has received - this episode showed him being selfless and brave, by risking his own life to save Abbie's life and again risking it in order to accomplish their mission.  Both Witnesses had to work together to put out the oil with their torches, revealing the sword.  Ichabod then gestured to Abbie to pull out the sword, but she declined.  Ichabod had to be the one to pull out the sword so that he could say the words “we shall not witness the Apocalypse on this night.”  If Abbie had pulled out the sword, she probably would've said something like "ok, we got the sword, now let's go."  The producers wanted a more dramatic line for that scene.

 

I didn't even mind Katrina because her role was minimal and clearly served only as a plot device to get the HH involved so that the Witnesses could then use him to fight the Gorgon.  (If the existence of a headless horseman is now accepted, then I have no problem accepting the existence of a gorgon.)  That said, I do hope that her character does not last into next season - if there is a next season.  Her outfit is still ridiculous and her breathless way of talking just seems out of place on this show.  Having one anachronistic, fish-out-of-water character on the show works because he serves as an interesting contrast to every other character on the show and gives a fresh perspective on how we view our modern day world.  But having two such anachronistic characters - esp. when they have such laughable dialogue - just takes me out of the show altogether.

 

In defense of Ichabod, he's a human being with flaws - his major weakness (as someone said) is Katrina.  I think this episode was intended to show, not that he was overly influenced by other people, but that he was manipulated by Destiny into becoming a Witness - it was just poorly executed.  And much as I love Abbie, she's a human being with flaws as well.  Despite how perfect she's being portrayed this season, she did abandon her sister to the asylum for many years, never visiting or talking to her, and trying to distance herself from her 'crazy' sister.  That was a hurdle that Abbie and Jenny had to overcome last season in order to become close again.     

 

I don't want perfect characters or Mary Sues.  I like characters with flaws that they try to overcome.  Ichabod and Abbie are better together as a team (I don't mean that romantically).  Alone, neither of them could've defeated the Gorgon and gotten the sword.  There's a reason why two Witnesses are needed.

 

Regarding how Ichabod's actions were influenced by others, the whole theme of this episode was about identity.

How can he know himself truly, if his fate has been decided by others?

http://comicbook.com/2014/11/25/sleepy-hollow-season-2-episode-10-with-spoilers-magnum-opus/

 

I like what this reviewer said:

Sleepy Hollow "Magnum Opus" Review: The Sword of Destiny
http://www.tv.com/shows/sleepy-hollow/community/post/sleepy-hollow-season-2-episode-10-magnum-opus-review-141685048018/

The theme of "Magnum Opus" was seeing one's true self. After struggling with his identity for story's sake, Ichabod came to recognize that although he followed Brom to America at his suggestion, and although the two are connected, he's his own man. We are the choices we make and we must live with those choices. For a show that appears to be steeped heavily in destiny, it's important to remember that Ichabod and Abbie always have free will. And that's what will save them in the end. They might have have their doubts about the roles they play or how they got there and whether or not they'll live a long life, but they're here now and it's what they do now that counts. They're still discovering who they are and how they fit into this greater picture, but as long as they see each other and recognize that they're stronger because they're together, no one will be able to stop them. Plus they've got that shiny new sword.

Edited November 26, 2014 by tv echo

[DeLurker]

What annoyed me was Crane saying "after you" to Abbie for climbing down into the dark, scary pit of unknown. Was wee Abbie to shield him from whatever boogey man lies below?

[Enero]

I'm tired of hating - it's too exhausting, so here goes...

 

In defense of Ichabod, he's a human being with flaws - his major weakness (as someone said) is Katrina.   I think this episode was intended to show, not that he was overly influenced by other people, but that he was manipulated by Destiny into becoming a Witness - it was just poorly executed.  And much as I love Abbie, she's a human being with flaws as well.  Despite how perfect she's being portrayed this season, she did abandon her sister to the asylum for many years, never visiting or talking to her, and trying to distance herself from her 'crazy' sister.  That was a hurdle that Abbie and Jenny had to overcome last season in order to become close again.     

 

I don't want perfect characters or Mary Sues.  I like characters with flaws that they try to overcome.  Ichabod and Abbie are better together as a team (I don't mean that romantically).  Alone, neither of them could've defeated the Gorgon and gotten the sword.  There's a reason why two Witnesses are needed.

I love characters with flaws. It gives them layers, makes them complex and thus more interesting. However, the difference between Abbie's mistakes and The Crane's mistakes is that Abbie fully acknowledged what she did wrong and struggled episode after episode to make things right with Jenny. Now finally they are to a place again were they are like sisters. This I can relate to and sympathize with.

The Cranes have not done no such thing. Their response to their role in what happened to Abraham has been condescending at best. They have hardly acknowledged their wrong doing and continue to think it's them against the world (evil). An evil they in part created but fail to acknowledge. This makes it difficult to sympathize with them.

[kia112]

Who were the two Horseman behind Henry in the last scene? I know that one was the Horseman of Death, but who was the other?

 

The other one was War.  Remember when Moloch made Henry War, he also gave him a Horseman persona that Henry could control with his soul.  Maybe because he's not dead yet.

 

[tv echo]

When they found the door to the underground chamber, they expected to find an empty crypt where the sword was hidden.  I don't think either of them expected to find anything alive running loose down there, let alone a gorgon.  It wasn't until they climbed down and saw the frozen stone statues that they realized there was any danger and then Ichabod told Abbie to run and get out.  So when Ichabod said "after you" to Abbie at the entrance, he was being a gentleman in letting the lady go first through the door.  He would not have said that if he suspected possible danger below.  Plus when they find themselves in dangerous situations, he respects her abilities and knows she can handle herself in such situations.  I think Ichabod has flaws, but I don't think he is a coward.

 

I don't think Ichabod can win here.  If he treats Abbie like an equal, he's putting her in danger.  If he tries to protect her, he's not treating her like an equal.  I also don't agree that Ichabod cares only about saving Katrina and Jeremy, but I'm obviously in the minority here. 

[HalcyonDays]

I also liked it when Abraham lamented that he was supposed to be the hero of the story. It made me think that I would probably enjoy him more if he had been shown to have better motivations for hating Crane - perhaps if Abraham had been a revolutionary zealot who felt usurped and betrayed by Washington choosing Crane who he believed unworthy (somewhat mirroring Abbie being a witness instead of Jenny, but instead of them coming to terms with it like the sisters) Abraham turns coat and that act of treason somehow leads him to the situation of becoming Death. That would work better for me, the road to hell being paved with good intentions and all. I want to like him, bug I just can't get behind his whole goal in his unlife is lameass Katrina.

 

cynic, I love this idea. This is wonderful. How much better would the show have been with this type of complex scenario. To reduce all of this angst, hatred and evilness down to merely being rejected by a woman is sad. I guess I have a cold heart, because I just don't see it as being enough to turn so evil. Grab a pint of ice cream, drink a mickey of vodka and get over it. If that were enough to turn people evil, half of the world would be Horsemen of Death.

 

The reasoning is incredibly flimsy and is quite sexist actually, if you think about it. That a man cannot control his emotions, has no agency, no ability to think straight because of a woman. It's why we have idiots saying that woman need to cover themselves up in summer, because otherwise a man is too distracted and cannot think.

 

With regards to Abraham/Death taking orders, same thing happened last season too, during Necromancer, when Death was just about to run Crane through with the sword, then Andy jumped up and said that Crane had to live.

 

Another retcon on this show. In Necromancer, Abraham was shown to be the better swordsman. In this one, Crane was the better swordman. The only way I can explain was that while Crane was too busy letting his brain cells being slowly killed off due to mooning over Katrina, Abraham was practising swordfighting more, therefore got better.

 

Or just show just forgot (they forgot). They really need to review their own show, write down notes as to what happened.

 

What annoyed me was Crane saying "after you" to Abbie for climbing down into the dark, scary pit of unknown. Was wee Abbie to shield him from whatever boogey man lies below?

 

He did the same thing last season in Sanctuary, but Abbie's like, "yeah, no - you go first". And then he descended the steps first.

[DearEvette]

I finally watched the episode on Hulu because it was a mess during live viewing....

 

Random disjointed thoughts:

 

-  Loved the action.  This is the episode that should have happened around Ep. 6 rather than 10.  Really underscores how pointless some of the filler eps were. This had more of a S1 feel with Abbie & Ichabod actually doing something, while Jenny and Irving had their own b-plot and Team Bad was doing stuff too.  And Headless was back to being a headless bad ass. 

 

- Loved the Ichabod & Abbie moments.  Seriously... no matter how aggravated I have been with this season, whenever Mison and Beharie on are screen together just being them something rather awesome happens.  Not just them, but even their body parts.  Ichabod's hands and Abbie's eyes convey more emotion in one scene than some people can in an entire movie.  I totally forgive a lot of the show's shortcomings on the strength of these two alone.

 

- Of course Jenny has a burner phone at the ready.  I love her.

 

- Can I point out that Dead Grace Dixon and Dead Mama Mills have been more of an intel asset this entire season than living 'Powerful Witch' Katrina?

 

-Speaking of Katrina.... I just can't with her anymore.  I hate her stupid Whisper Speaking where she puts a 'H' in front of every word ... seriously she pronounces Ichabod's name 'Hiccupod'... I hate her seriously fucked up wig and hairline.... I hate her utter uselessness... Notice how when she came at them through the mirror the first thing Ichabod asked was 'Are you in danger?'  rather than 'What have you learned?'....  I hate that she is the dumbest spy since Boris Badenov.... I just hate her.

 

- I find it interesting that Ichabod tells Abraham that what he is is his choice.  He chose to be the Headless Horseman and it was his own choices that scuttled his chances with Katrina forever.  And yet.... Henry has made those same choices.  He chose of his own free will to become the Horseman of war, and yet Ichabod chooses to view him with more compassion than Abraham.  Added to that, Ichabod had, by all accounts, a true, deep friendship with Abraham.  They had an actual, quantifiable relationship, while Henry is a virtual stranger to Ichabod.  And yet, we are being asked to understand why the Cranes would consider Henry as a person worthy to be redeemed, yet they are not extending that same consideration to Abraham.  Speaking of choices... Henry also pointed out that Katrina chose to selfishly save her husband and abandon her son.  Again with the personal choices, where one should actually have to live with the consequences. And yet it feels like the only person being held to those consequences is Abraham.  There is such a level of Hypocrisy there that it baffles me that we are being asked to be somewhat sympathetic to this line of reasoning with the Cranes.

Edited November 26, 2014 by DearEvette

[fantique]

It felt like the writers were trying to squash the CFD backlash by having Ichabod throw that bone.

That's unlikely since I think they were shooting episode 12 by the time "#AbbieMillsDeservesBetter" started going around.

And much as I love Abbie, she's a human being with flaws as well.  Despite how perfect she's being portrayed this season, she did abandon her sister to the asylum for many years, never visiting or talking to her, and trying to distance herself from her 'crazy' sister.  That was a hurdle that Abbie and Jenny had to overcome last season in order to become close again.     

 

I don't want perfect characters or Mary Sues.  I like characters with flaws that they try to overcome.  Ichabod and Abbie are better together as a team (I don't mean that romantically).  Alone, neither of them could've defeated the Gorgon and gotten the sword.  There's a reason why two Witnesses are needed.

I agree that I wouldn't like Abbie if she didn't have problems. I do think that the reason why she hasn't shown many faults this season is simply because there hasn't been much exploration of the character this season, the last significant moments before Mama (that I remember) were in 203 and 206 for a hot second. I do think that her weakness is doubt and fear from emotional vulnerability (she decided to attack her mother's haunting from the cop/witness angle whereas Jenny just wanted to free her). Even in this episode she showed signs of wavering faith in what her destiny is and herself and I loved this moment. All this rambling to say I don't think she's been portrayed as perfect so much as single minded. To me she's not a perfect person but she's striving really hard to overcome her self-imposed obstacles and that makes a near perfect character for me because I know there's somewhere positive and interesting to go from here. She has a lot more potential than is being used.

 

Honestly though, I don't even think Crane has had much development this season (Katrina did, and we just got to see how Crane is when with his wife). The problem is, Crane's appeal is based on us buying into the fantasy of this man out of time who still holds dear chivalry, honour, propriety, etc. I guess this whole thing could have been about adding depth to him by making it really hard to choose between his family and the witnesses' goal. The problem is it was presented so weirdly and relied too much on a connection that I frankly don't feel (because he's still the funny man pointing out how much 2014 America makes no sense). I remember saying sometime ago that I need them to show me his pain over having lost all that was familiar to him. Not in "ah the good old days when everything was better" way but in a "I'm lost" way. Then again, he has already acclimated so I don't know how they can really explore it unless they go for subtlety and let him have a moment of wistfulness once in a while to remind me.

PS: I don't think Ichabod or Katrina are indifferent to the fate of the world, it just seems like they are not thinking of the consequences of trying to save their son while he is actively destroying lives. It's a question of redemption for him might mean so many lives lost in the mean time whereas if they actively stop him, they can spare innocents. Of course another evil would take his place but at least it wouldn't be a direct consequence of their inaction. I said it before, I just want a few throwaway lines of them discussing a purification spell or look for a back up to kill War if their hopes don't come to fruition.

Edited November 27, 2014 by fantique

[HalcyonDays]

There is such a level of Hypocrisy there that it baffles me that we are being asked to be somewhat sympathetic to this line of reasoning with the Cranes.

 

That's why I think I and others have been so irritated with Crane this season - his lack of compassion for Abraham, yet if it has to do with his wife and son, let the world burn, as long as they can be saved. I really hate that.

 

And it really wasn't Abraham's choice. He got mad, dueled Crane, got shot by Hessians, who then converted him to Death. He lay dying, probably angry as hell, but I am sure his thoughts weren't "I want to be the Horseman of Death." His thoughts were more like "I will bloody well kill you, Ichabod, you traitorous bastard."

 

It's why I hope Ichabod gets some serious consequences against him. He chose to put his wife and child ahead of basic humanity. He chose to ignore his wife's lies and shady behaviour. He chose to believe that he has no free will. (well in this case, he life was quite directed, I admit, but he made the final decisions).

 

I hate that she is the dumbest spy since Boris Badenov...

 

Hee. I love this! The shades over Goffman's eyes are quite thick, because he claims that Katrina is a "Powerful witch and excellent spy." In what alternate universe? It really is quite amazing how one can be so adamant that 1 + 1 = 3, when logic and pure factual evidence tell you otherwise (I hope that made sense)

[Yolapukka]

 

What annoyed me was Crane saying "after you" to Abbie for climbing down into the dark, scary pit of unknown.

 

 I really liked that moment. It took an old-school gesture of politeness and due to the context, turned it inside out in that by choosing to follow Abbie into the unknown Crane was implicitly acknowledging that she was well capable of taking the lead. Something else I liked was Ichabod's tone of wonder when he noted the statue's resemblance to Abbie, then his switch to horror and alarm as he realized the significance of the stone figures.

 

 As much as I dislike the woobie whining of Headed Horseman, I thought the flashbacks between Ichabod and Abraham beautifully depicted the deep love and affection the two men had for each other before the addition of Katrina led to the pair breaking faith with one another. Part of what I appreciated was HH explicitly stating in the present day that he irrevocably embraces his part as a servant of evil and will not be redeemed. If he is not the hero, he is all in as the villain. Ichabod needs  to stop trying in vain to fix the permanent damage he was a party to in the past and focus on preventing the destruction that is coming. I think that was what he was doing when he spoke to Abraham about Choice. I need for Ichabod to finally come to a similar conclusion about Henry. Henry is who he wants to be, the only redemption for him is that he be prevented from doing further evil.

 

 I really do hope we get a reveal that Katrina was playing with lovecharms and trying to insert herself into destiny when the two men fell for her. I can't account for it otherwise. She's pretty, really that's about it. She has a terrible personality and doesn't seem good at anything other than demonstrating the many ways she can have bad hair.

Edited November 26, 2014 by yuggapukka

[starchild215]

I thought this was a good episode. I especially liked the flashback to Ichabod and Abraham showing what good friends they were and how Ichabod's betrayal after all that had happened between them would send Abraham off the deep end. 

 

Ichabod is what he is - an upper class British professor at Oxford no less. His empathy for regular people is a learned behavior and doesn't come naturally. Abbie has to tell him over and over that he's worthy because his class biases have no place in the world he's been reborn into and he's out of place as well as time. 

 

I loved when Abbie talked to him about her feelings regarding what she and her family have been through and I think it has to do with forcing Ichabod to face reality about Katrina and that her role in his life past and present has not been what he wants it to be. I like it that she's the realist and he's the dreamer. 

 

I think Katrina has been under an enchantment for a long time and it started with her meeting Ichabod back in the day. Abraham was surprised that they'd met but he quickly recovered and made plans for them to hang out together. 

 

Choice is a big deal this season and Abbie, Ichabod, Jenny and Irving are all dealing with it and each is in his/her own private hell or purgatory. None of them can go forward until they deal with the consequences of their actions: Abbie's lies re Jenny, Ichabod's betrayal of Abraham, Irving's actions towards his family, and Jenny who has had to turn what happened to her into positves and forgive her sister. Both Jenny and Abraham were majorly betrayed by people they loved and each chose to react in self destructive ways. Jenny is working through her issues and Abraham has chosen to join and stay on the side of evil. Hate is the other side of love no?

 

I wonder who the other people frozen in stone were? Hessians?

[cassandle]

What annoyed me was Crane saying "after you" to Abbie for climbing down into the dark, scary pit of unknown. Was wee Abbie to shield him from whatever boogey man lies below?

 

 

 I really liked that moment. It took an old-school gesture of politeness and due to the context, turned it inside out in that by choosing to follow Abbie into the unknown Crane was implicitly acknowledging that she was well capable of taking the lead.

 

I interpreted that moment as: a cop with a gun trumps an unarmed soldier/history professor.  I also felt like he was teasing her a little.  I'd swear they did that same joke on the X-Files where giant Mulder ushered little Scully ahead of him into something dangerous and she just rolled her eyes and went ahead 'cause she was a badass.

[cheyz]

I fear that Irving will be called to duty with blowing of the evil horn. Didn't Abraham say the horn will draw all of Moloch's servants to him? 

 

Irving signed away his soul, he hasn't lost it yet. He doesn't become Moloch's servant until he dies.

[theatremouse]

>I still have no idea whatsoever how Crane and Mills having each other helped them get the sword out of the container. Or was he referring to getting TO the container in the first place?

I believe it needed 2 (2 witnesses) to complete the magical task

In what way?

Ichy alone puts one torch in the oil, it goes out, unlike what you'd expect from fire in oil.

 

Abbie and Ichy together put two torches in oil, they end up with magic sword.

 

Now, their coming to that conclusion based on the evidence at hand is pure Indiana Jones level made up schtick someone who watches too many movies would wild guess, matched in its saccharineness only by the triumph music that accompanied it. Still, that's what the show presented us with.

Edited November 27, 2014 by theatremouse

[Haleth]

Not only did I think of Indiana Jones and Clash of the Titans, but the scene with Ichabod drawing the sword was derivative of Aragorn unsheathing Anduril.  

 

How did Methuselah make/acquire a steel sword?

 

Yes, Headless > Abraham.

[kimberella]

So who told Crane being an abolitionist would be fun? Abraham or Katrina?

[cynic]

I really liked that moment. It took an old-school gesture of politeness and due to the context, turned it inside out in that by choosing to follow Abbie into the unknown Crane was implicitly acknowledging that she was well capable of taking the lead. Something else I liked was Ichabod's tone of wonder when he noted the statue's resemblance to Abbie, then his switch to horror and alarm as he realized the significance of the stone figures.

As much as I dislike the woobie whining of Headed Horseman, I thought the flashbacks between Ichabod and Abraham beautifully depicted the deep love and affection the two men had for each other before the addition of Katrina led to the pair breaking faith with one another. Part of what I appreciated was HH explicitly stating in the present day that he irrevocably embraces his part as a servant of evil and will not be redeemed. If he is not the hero, he is all in as the villain. Ichabod needs to stop trying in vain to fix the permanent damage he was a party to in the past and focus on preventing the destruction that is coming. I think that was what he was doing when he spoke to Abraham about Choice. I need for Ichabod to finally come to a similar conclusion about Henry. Henry is who he wants to be, the only redemption for him is that he be prevented from doing further evil.

I really do hope we get a reveal that Katrina was playing with lovecharms and trying to insert herself into destiny when the two men fell for her. I can't account for it otherwise. She's pretty, really that's about it. She has a terrible personality and doesn't seem good at anything other than demonstrating the many ways she can have bad hair.

This. All of this. Except for the part about Katrina not being good at anything. She's actually quite good at ruining stuff. She ruined Abraham and Crane's friendship. She ruined the chance to get rid of Moloch. She ruined Mary's ability to keep breathing. And she's ruining this show.

Seriously though, Katrina putting a love spell on Crane is the only storyline that will satisfy me at this point. It's the only good explanation for Crane's devotion and the only way to make Katrina even semi interesting.

[shanndee]

Well, I finally psyched myself up to watch my recording of the show. Much better than it has been. Quality can't help but improve when you allow the two Witnesses to work together without being impeded by Fail!witch and Annoying Blonde Guy. It was good to see Jenny and Frank.

 

It certainly felt like TPTB were trying to find the winning season 1 formula, Abbie and Crane working together, action, a creepy monster, some nice character moments. However, they need to look a bit harder. Some of the scenes felt...forced?...rather than letting the natural chemistry of the co-leads work its magic.

 

Not bad. I haven't completely lost hope yet!

[Canada]

Every time I see Katrina in that corset/jeans outfit, I cringe and half expect her to be cut in two.  How she can breath in that get-up is beyond me.  Is that really the best they can do with her wardrobe?  It looks awful.

[HalcyonDays]

Every time I see Katrina in that corset/jeans outfit, I cringe and half expect her to be cut in two.  How she can breath in that get-up is beyond me.  Is that really the best they can do with her wardrobe?  It looks awful.

 

But, but...it's sexy!! Right? Actually, the outfit doesn't even bother me that much, TBH. I mean, she is used to wearing corsets and restricting dresses, etc. The corset top is the same, and some people maybe feel better in it. Like those who have to wear pantyhose under their pants, or granny panties that are like waist high or even those woman who wear bras to bed. I personally want to feel "free", but some people like it. At least we were not subjected to a scene where Abbie takes her shopping.

 

BTW, love your username, Canada. I just happened to be from that amazing country!

[Snookums]

Abraham is a whiny baby. So Ichabod and your girl fell in love -- get over it already! I liked him better as a wordless menace.

 

 

Honestly, this. I don't blame him for being angry--especially when recalling how and when Ichabod broke the news (during a secret mission? Really?) but DUDE. SHE'S NOT INTO YOU. She never was! The show made it clear that it was an arranged marriage (although how Katrina's Quaker family and Abraham's social climbing clan were so tight is unexplained) and she liked him, didn't want to hurt him, but clearly wouldn't have wanted to marry him even if she'd never met Crane. He kept trying and pushing and buying her ugly jewelry and is pissed off that it didn't work, and won't accept that Ichabod Crane doesn't have some kind of magical control over his life when it's so much easier and satisfying to just say wahhhhhh it's all your fault you took my favorite toy!

 

He and Henry/Jeremy are two of a kind--whiny whining whiners who are less invested in Moloch and his little apocalypse then in not having to face the fact that they'd rather remain babies then grow up and face hard facts that love doesn't solve or cause every damn problem in life. I'm really not too worried about Moloch rising at this point, since his so called "army" is going to spend all its time at The One Grand Pity Party Finale Round and not get around to actually conquering anything.

[Snookums]

So Frank is just gonna wander around in the bush all soulless? That's it?

 

 

He could hook up with that poor homeless golem that Abbie and Ich abandoned out there.

 

The whole thing with Irving is so contrived. He didn't even intentionally sell his soul, it was essentially stolen by Henry so that makes the whole guilt, I did it for my family thing  so unbelievable and unnecessary. And his family has not even made an appearance at all this season (not that i want to see them).

 

 

This bugs me too. Intent is so important in stories like this and Henry totally stole his soul. That's cheating, I'm sorry, just straight up cheating. I know we're talking about Evil here but rules are rules. 

 

I think they're keeping Irving's family offscreen so his wife can say "wait, you did this because you honestly thought anybody in reality would buy for one hot second that our wheelchair bound thirteen year old daughter murdered three guys by breaking their spines??? Seriously? This shit wouldn't get past any DA that wasn't a basset hound dressed up in a little bow tie and you know it. But no, you had to trash your career and reputation by getting put away in a mental hospital and every last dime of your pension and my salary is going to legal fees and that daughter of ours is going to end up going to school in a cardboard box by the time we get you out of here. This is why I divorced you, you're a life wrecking idiot!"

Edited November 28, 2014 by Snookums

[HalcyonDays]

He and Henry/Jeremy are two of a kind--whiny whining whiners who are less invested in Moloch and his little apocalypse then in not having to face the fact that they'd rather remain babies then grow up and face hard facts that love doesn't solve or cause every damn problem in life.

 

If only this was the twist. Pretty please show? That Henry is really Katrina and Abe's son, since like you said, both are whining whiners who are blaming everyone around them for their own issues?? Then they (and their mother) can go galloping off into the Purgatory sunset (and off my screen).

 

I do like Abraham though - especially in the flashbacks.

[RiddleyWalker]

 

I do like Abraham though - especially in the flashbacks.

Well, I still think the decision to "humanize" Headless was misguided, but seeing the other actor stomping up steps and whipping out a shotgun taking potshots at Ichabod and Abbie was strangely comforting. I have to admit that I liked the flashbacks with Abraham--and I would have liked them even more if it was anyone but Headless, who I still like to see with Terminator like implacability. That being said, the die is cast, and there's no going back. Headless is Abraham and frequent scenes of Headless without his head and Abraham being angry and not mooning over Katrina will help tremendously.

[cynic]

...

I think they're keeping Irving's family offscreen so his wife can say "wait, you did this because you honestly thought anybody in reality would buy for one hot second that our wheelchair bound thirteen year old daughter murdered three guys by breaking their spines??? Seriously? This shit wouldn't get past any DA that wasn't a basset hound dressed up in a little bow tie and you know it...

Considering real life stories like the death of a man in police custody from a gunshot wound to the chest while his hands are cuffed behind his back being ruled a suicide, maybe the storyline isn't so farfetched.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2014/09/02/victor-whites-unbelievable-houdini-handcuff-suicide/

Edited November 29, 2014 by cynic

[saber5055]

My station reran this episode last night. I noticed Crane wears a silver band on his right hand, ring finger. Did people use different hands in Colonial times to signify marriage? Or does this ring mean something different?

 

I also noticed when the sword was finally discovered, Crane motioned for Abbie to remove it and she said no, Crane should have the honor. It reminded me of the "You first." "No, you first" conversation going on here. Crane was simply being polite in all cases.

Edited November 30, 2014 by saber5055

[HalcyonDays]

My station reran this episode last night. I noticed Crane wears a silver band on his right hand, ring finger. Did people use different hands in Colonial times to signify marriage? Or does this ring mean something different?

 

It's a ring with a Mason symbol (compass and square) on it. Crane took it from one of the Mason's who were slaughtered by Headless, last season in The Midnight Ride episode. Crane himself is a Mason. The Mason's in the show wear this ring.

[saber5055]

Thanks Halccyon. I've seen every episode but don't remember the Mason ring thing. I was hoping it was Crane's wedding ring signifying that he was now available and over Katrina. Wishful thinking!

[benteen]

I hope this episode will finally convince Ichabod and Katrina that Henry and Abraham cannot be redeemed but I won't hold my breath.

[HalcyonDays]

Thanks Halccyon. I've seen every episode but don't remember the Mason ring thing. I was hoping it was Crane's wedding ring signifying that he was now available and over Katrina. Wishful thinking!

 

Don't even speculate on that - if I have to live through a "vow renewal", I'll throw my TV out the window!! *grin*

[Happytobehere]

Anyway the finale is next week where they promise someone makes the ultimate sacrifice. Audience in unison: Please let it be Stupid Witch.

But I'm guessing since we see Irving running around in the thick of stuff it will probably be him. Especially since I noticed he was credited third this episode in the opening instead of witch chick.

.

Well, it won't be Katrina because the writers have already given interviews about Katrina-centered episodes coming that will show her awesomeness. Someone has a hard-on for this character and we are stuck with her until they show is completely destroyed; which at the rate things are going won't be long.

Matt Barr has already be announced as the lead in a new TNT show, and the casting of a new love interest for Abby have been announced so it could be him.

Also, remember the promised Frank episode with his family hasn't aired yet, so I assume Frank is still alive and on the run. He has been on so little this season that an episode with him and his family as a flashback would not be done.

Unfortunately, there are pictures of Ichy holding Abbie as she appears to scream in anguish, so based on that and Lyndie's lack of tweeting and the fact that I don't see Frank or Hawley provoking such a reaction from Abby, I assume Jenny bites it. The writers will probably have her die to save Struggle Witch as she proclaims Katrina's great and unending worthiness. Makes me wonder whether Lyndie thinks her multiple calls for her good friend Katia to be featured were a good idea. Notice how no such cries came on her behalf when Jenny was relegated to nothingness from Lyndie's "good friend."

Based n this, I am preparing myself for tomorrow's episode to be my final one. Since it seems likely that we will continue with the only Abby sacrifices for the great love that is the Cranes. More Katrina, arrogant ass-wipe Crane, let's redeem Henry, marginalized Abby, almost invisible Frank and possibly dead Jenny is not what I signed on for.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Happytobehere

[DeLurker]

 

I'll throw my TV out the window!!

That'll be a bitch of a job if you have one of the flat panel wall mounted jobbies...

 

 

I hope this episode will finally convince Ichabod and Katrina that Henry and Abraham cannot be redeemed but I won't hold my breath.

I read this wrong and thought it said "I hope this episode will finally convince Ichabod that Katrina, Henry and Abraham cannot be redeemed".  If only Goffman could be convinces of that.

[HalcyonDays]

The writers will probably have her die to save Struggle Witch as she proclaims Katrina's great and unending worthiness. Makes me wonder whether Lyndie thinks her multiple calls for her good friend Katia to be featured were a good idea.

 

Then I really will throw my - non-wall mounted - TV out the window. And reign hellish hail and brimstone on Goffman and the rest of those writers. The worst is that Winter is retweeted all of the supporting tweets she gets about her "wonderful" character. *grumble*

 

That'll be a bitch of a job if you have one of the flat panel wall mounted jobbies...

 

DeLurker - this made me LAUGH! Oh my gawd!! Hilarious. I need this now...truly!

[savinggrace]

 I assume Jenny bites it. The writers will probably have her die to save Struggle Witch as she proclaims Katrina's great and unending worthiness. Makes me wonder whether Lyndie thinks her multiple calls for her good friend Katia to be featured were a good idea.

 

 

It wouldn't shock me if the writers had a Katrina-praising monologue in store for each character. Ichabod and Abbie already delivered theirs in "Heartless". I recall Tom practically looking into the camera and going "Audience, Katrina is a very powerful and amazing witch, Okay?" Then it was Abbie's turn when she said "Katrina you're a valuable part of the team." If you look closely, you can see a gun pointed at Nicole Beharie's head slightly off-camera.

 

Jenny, Irving and Hawley haven't met Katrina but when they do I imagine they'll have great things to say about Katrina too:

 

Irving: "I've lost my job, family and soul but damn if Katrina isn't a great and powerful witch!"

Jenny: "I lost my mom, spent years in an institution, and risked my life at every turn. but there's no way I can compare to you Katrina. You're such an amazing witch! I think I'll sacrifice my life for you!" (dies needlessly)

Hawley: "Damn, Crane, you never told me your wife was a such a hot and amazing witch! Abbie who?"

Edited December 1, 2014 by savinggrace

[missbonnie]

They just cut into the show to show the ferguson decision! Damnit

Yes,and I had dvr'd it so I missed everything from when they decided that both needed to light the oil, and I don't have on demand. Can someone please clue me in?

Oh and for the record, I was over Katrina last season. I just don't get the appeal of the character at all. She's already proven herself to be a liar.

Edited December 1, 2014 by missbonnie

[saber5055]

I wish that two-way mirror had been working so Crane could have seen and heard Henry declare he was beyond redemption "with his every breath" and had absolutely not one shred of humanity in him, so give up Mom, you stupid b*tch. I mean, witch.

 

Yes,and I had dvr'd it so I missed everything from when they decided that both needed to light the oil, and I don't have on demand. Can someone please clue me in?

Once they both lit the oil (they could because they were different than all the other sword searchers, because "they have each other."), the world-saving sword appeared in the cauldron. Crane motioned for Abbie to pull it out, but she said no, you do it. So Crane pulled out the sword, which glowed all kinds of awesomeness, and he gave some speech about saving the world and yada yada. Cut to Henry telling Katrina she is a stupid b*tch (see above) and he cannot be saved and she's a loser big time, and he duped her by letting her use that two-way mirror. The last scene was all dark, with two horsemen, Abe on Red Eye and another on a fire-snorting bag-head horse, all gathered around a circle waiting for the End Of Times.

 

Did I miss anything?

[topanga]

 

The last scene was all dark, with two horsemen, Abe on Red Eye and another on a fire-snorting bag-head horse, all gathered around a circle waiting for the End Of Times.

 

Did I miss anything?

Great summary.

 

But isn't Henry the Horseman of War? So who was the other horseman behind him? (The one with a head, or course).

[OakGoblinFly]

Abraham convinced him to give up his Professor job in England and go to the colonies as a soldier

Later, it seems, he convinced him to leave the army (get rid of the red coat) and join the rebels

 

I finally caught the full episode ON Demand since Fox interrupted more than half the program ....... I didn't like it (though I did like Abbie's putting Crane in his place regarding); this season feels completely different than the first.

 

When did Abraham go over to the Colonists?