S03.E05: The Secret Origin Of Felicity Smoak

[tv echo]

I was also wondering why Diggle isn't in costume.  Upon further thought, I remembered that Diggle used to be a soldier in the U.S. military.  Perhaps he dressed the way he might've for covert operations?  Or maybe he's just too cool to be running around in costume.  He also had planned to step back from Team Arrow operations because of his new family before Sara was murdered.  But it is odd.

 

Besides, one masked man in costume is a superhero vigilante, two masked men in costume are comic twins, and three masked men in costume would look ridiculous.  Oliver looks great as the Arrow, but it's hard to take Roy seriously as Arsenal.

Edited November 6, 2014 by tv echo

[wonderwall]

This episode, while not the best, was my favorite of the entire season. So while I understand why people didn't like it and deemed it to be the "worst of the season", to me it highlighted the things that Arrow has been missing nowadays (something of which I'll get to by the end of this post). 

 

People generally watch the show for the action and the awesome villain and Oliver, but those three aspects were missing this episode. While, yes, there was action, it wasn't that great, the villain was half baked and predictable. Yes, the plot was weak, but that doesn't really matter because the plot was just a means to get to know Felicity better.  It wasn't meant to be the focal point. And the episode achieved its goals. We actually GOT to know Felicity better. However, some people didn't like this aspect and that's fine. We simply value different things about the episode.

 

When I say that we got to know Felicity a bit better, boy did we ever. It was so satisfying to finally understand Felicity's beginnings, how she became who she is today. While I thought that her transformation was rushed, I genuinely appreciated seeing Felicity going from point A to point B. While some people hated this scene because it 'came out of nowhere' and was too 'cliche' or 'cheesy', I really liked it because it showed that what happened to her during her MIT days shook her to her core. The guilt of being that hacktivist must've destroyed her as it was HER virus to have supposedly killed the person she loved most back then, Cooper. This drastic change didn't bother me because it made sense. It made sense why Felicity would dye her hair blonde (I like to think that she subconsciously made it blonde in order to emulate her mother's strength) and start wearing prim and proper clothing. This was Felicity's way of laying low, of taking a step back and removing herself from that world of hacking and to have as normal a life as possible. Which she did by taking a middling IT job at QC. Until Oliver sauntered into her office one fateful Wednesday. And our lives became 5000x more awesome because of it. 

 

Felicity's journey wasn't meant to be convoluted and intense as Oliver's. Yes, she suffered, but she moved on and grew from her experiences. This is what I love about Felicity. She isn't bogged down by years of misery. Her story suits her. And now that Felicity's recompensed with her past, I can only see her moving forward and growing from who she is now. And watching this will be a lot more interesting and satisfying since we now know how far she's come. 

 

**Sidebar** kudos to the writers for having Felicity save herself. She may not have been a hero during her hacktivist days, but she is a hero today. Which was a nice nod to showing that Felicity always had this affinity for helping people (which makes sense why she would risk her life to save Walter). Felicity was always made for greatness **End Sidebar**

 

Enter Donna Smoak. I think I've fallen in love with this woman because of her strength. It's so obvious where Felicity got her strength from. It was from watching her mother work 60 hours a week on 6 inch heels. It was from watching her mother not back down after her husband left her. It was from watching her mother not give up even when times got rough. While Felicity was a little slow in appreciating all of this, I understand she why took her mother for granted. Felicity left her home at a very young age (I'm guessing 16), she was a teenager. Teenagers usually don't even take the time to understand their parents. She saw things extremely one sided as those things that Donna did to help raise Felicity were the exact same things that embarrassed her. And Felicity never got to change her mind about this older woman because after she left Nevada, she left her mother behind as well. I'm guessing they didn't talk a lot during those years. So it's nice to see that (now that Felicity has matured more) the two women have it out and were honest with each other about how they feel. It was refreshing to see (FOR ONCE) two people having an honest and adult argument. It was refreshing to see these two women act like adults and TRY to understand one another. It was refreshing just to see these two women have one of the most grounded relationships on the show. I loved watching Donna. She's so completely different from Felicity but that doesn't matter because what matters is that they stuck together. And that really resonated me. You don't have to like your family members in order to deeply love them and care about them. 

 

A part of the episode I also loved was that Oliver was more in the background being a supportive husband to Felicity during her hour of need. And he did this all without touching her. He calmed her down, he made her talk to her mother, he made her realize how important family is regardless of the differences. That's HUGE for Oliver because for once, he was comforting her. He was the one to give her the pep talk which shows that it's NOT just Oliver who benefits from their relationship. When Felicity is in turmoil, he's the one who sees things clearly, and when Oliver is in turmoil, you can bet that Felicity will be there to guide him. I think that while it was painful to watch Felicity to shut Oliver down after he bared his soul again, I was cheering her on when she did. This couple is going to ruin me. 

 

This episode, like I said, highlighted everything that was missing from this season. It's missing the lighter moments, Team Arrow dynamics (as this is the first time in 3 episodes where I actually saw all 4 of the members interact with one another and actually be in the same room), less shoving in 5000 subplots in an episode, and compelling characterization... 

 

So while Arrow failed to deliver a compelling plot, it made it up in spades by telling us Felicity's story, by further solidifying her character, by solidifying her relationships, by showing us that Felicity isn't perfect at all and that even SHE has made huge mistakes in the past. This is what made the episode such a great one. this is the first episode of Arrow this season that left me satisfied after watching it and I hope this isn't the last Felicity Smoak centric episode. Next time though, I'd really like a more compelling plot because Felicity deserves that! 

Edited November 7, 2014 by wonderwall

[tessaray]

 

I'm curious as to whether all that techno babble (co-generation, asymmetric blah, blah, blah) makes sense to the computer savvy, or whether that stuff is just made up by the writers.  Just about all of it went whooshing right over my head.

 

I figured the techno babble wasn't going to be great when Felicity said she coded a Zork emulator in Linux.  I have a 10 year old Linux PDA that has a Zork emulator on it - and previous models going back another 3 or 4 years had them too. But then very few shows get tech right.  Arrow isn't unique. 

 

Also ETA:  I haven't seen the whole episode yet.  I usually just ignore Felicity's tech dialog but the Linux thing... maybe the rest will be the normal variety of techno babble. 

Edited November 7, 2014 by tessaray

[Tangerine]

I wasn't keen on Ray before and I'm still hesitant about him, but I think I'm finally understanding where they're going with him. He's the socially inept genius that's very singularly focused and probably operating on way too much caffeine. He basically steamrolls into the room and takes over but nobody's been able to challenge him otherwise because he's a brilliant, handsome, genius who gets stuff done. With that being said, I don't mind him and Felicity bonding because she could use a few friends outside of the Arrow cave. But, so far I don't see Ray as a person yet. He doesn't seem like a human being where Felicity basically exudes humanity to me.

 

I understand that Laurel's poor decision making was supposed to be attributed to her anger but that might actually be one of the few consistent things about her character: she doesn't do well under pressure and in high-stress situations. She tends to just go in half-cocked.  And this show doesn't really do subtlety where she's concerned. I would have liked it so much better had she just quietly and slyly picked the black outfit instead of going "BLACK. YES DEFINITELY. BECAUSE BLACK CANARY. WINK WINK."

[Moya the Leviathan]

What do you think happened to Cooper at the end?  They never did say.  Did he go to federal prison or did Oliver ship him off to ARGUS' island prison?

 

I'm curious as to whether all that techno babble (co-generation, asymmetric blah, blah, blah) makes sense to the computer savvy, or whether that stuff is just made up by the writers.  Just about all of it went whooshing right over my head.  I think the only thing I understood was wi-fi.

Co-generation is a real thing (wikipedia) -- although it's not really a "computer" thing as much as a "recycling" or "environmentally efficient" thing. 

[Trini]

O: We can't bring her down there.

D: Why not Oliver, who's she gonna tell?

O: Well she.... I'm not comfortable with her down there.

D: ::shakes head::

 

That exchange was so hilarious, and now I really want to see whatever Worst Case Scenario Oliver had in his head! Baby barf on the computers? Digglette sets off a trick arrow? Dangles dangerously from the salmon ladder?

[Shanna]

Yeah, but that time they were ALL wearing ski masks together, and it was because they were doing something super shady. They were all being sketchy together and wearing the same thing. Can't they all be heroic together too? Everyone else who does good outside of the lair has a "doing good" mask, is what I'm saying.

I think Diggle is not a leather pants, arrow, goofy mask kind if guy and I don't want to see him in a costume. He doesn't need one. He is a soldier and he looks great in street clothes. I think the only reason the ski masked looked weird was because it was black and the rest of his outfit was light in color. He should have color coordinated.

I mean, I get what you are saying but I don't think leather pants and a goofy mask fits the character so I am cool with it. I don't think it makes him any less heroic, he just (usually) looks a bit more James Bond than batman. Not a bad thing.

On cooper, I definitely think he started with a kernel of resentment that felicity was better than he was, but was sincere mostly in the prison visit scene, and then over time his resentment grew. Especially when he saw she basically moved on with her life and was successful.

Ray has grown on me as a coworker/possibly with something shady going on, but not as a love interest. Very interested to see what comes of this brother eye omac business as well. And to whoever mention superman. Brandon routh played superman in a movie. He is totally a Clark Kent type, but he had the crazy eyes so I always want him to be evil. I think he isn't evil here, but is hiding things.

I didn't think the plot was weak at all, but I think of villains as a way of moving relationships along and giving people things to do. As long as they don't hurt my head with stupidity (I'm looking at you queens are broke storyline! Why aren't you over?) I will be happy.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Shanna

[slayer2]

How come nobody washes out their mouth after brushing their teeth on TV? Am I the only one that does this? WTF?

Random thoughts: I really love the fighting montage at the beginning. Getting more and more excited for Thea's arc, so happy I can like her now.

Appreciated the levity, it was very much needed. I've been watching Charlotte Ross since DOOL too, she was perfectly cast as Felicity's Mum and smoking hot, can't see why Felicity would be so ashamed of those genes. The baby Sara Diggle line was hysterical. Don't really know what they're doing with Olicity, the chemistry feels buried but I guess they have their hive mind on other things.

I hope this episode means that Laurel is going to focus more on fighting than rage because I love watching women kickass. Glad to see Felicity saved herself that was a most welcome surprise and that guy had it coming. Although I did think he was a good actor so it's too bad they made him evil.

Roy killing Sara? All through the warehouse scene I kept waiting for her to appear, the show lost some heart when they killed her off. There's a void that I can't seem to fill.

And finally....a confident Thea! Just loving her this season, so mature and self-assured, it's magnificent to behold.

Edited November 7, 2014 by slayer2

[HighHopes]

Yeah, but that time they were ALL wearing ski masks together, and it was because they were doing something super shady. They were all being sketchy together and wearing the same thing. Can't they all be heroic together too? Everyone else who does good outside of the lair has a "doing good" mask, is what I'm saying.

 

 

Diggle also wore a ski mask in.... an episode with China White I believe? When they were stopping some type of trucks. I can't remember the episode but I do remember him pulling it off once he was in the truck and driving it. 

 

I think it's more of a "I need something that covers my face/conceals my identity quickly" thing. 

[LisaM]

Loved how Felicity saved herself! I had to stop my recording because I yelled at the screen. Best episode in a very long time. The moment when Mama Smoak told Cooper that she worked 60 hour weeks to raise her genius daughter was wonderful. Loved the action shots with Arrow defeating the motion sensors. Charlotte Ross looked terrific; I've loved her since Days of our Lives and NYPD Blue. Great casting.

Hated the last two minutes with Roy possibly killing Sara. I kept waiting for Sara to show up during the fight scene.

Edited November 7, 2014 by LisaM

[Morrigan2575]

Diggle also wore a ski mask in.... an episode with China White I believe? When they were stopping some type of trucks. I can't remember the episode but I do remember him pulling it off once he was in the truck and driving it. 

 

I think it's more of a "I need something that covers my face/conceals my identity quickly" thing.

Identity, from early S2.

[insubordination]

 

The emphasis seems to be on well-dressed successful billionaire

 

I actually think it would work better if he were a little unkempt - some hair out of place, a button in the wrong hole. I like the analysis of him as a bumbling, socially inept genius. Then I could accept him going over to her house just 'cos he wanted to get out what was swirling around in his head to someone who might understand.  Because he looks so slick, it puts me off a little. I guess they wanted to make him far different from Barry. 

 

I'm not detecting any romantic chemistry yet, but maybe we're not meant to. Hell, maybe Felicity will make a move down the track and he will be like, "Oh!"

[Password]

Yeah I'm pretty sure we're not meant to see romantic anything between them yet. That's why episode 6 will be interesting on that front.

[Moya the Leviathan]

For Trini: Saw this on the Clock Tower Theater thread. 

David Ramsey just retweeted this. Adorable!

 

 

 

O: We can't bring her down there.

D: Why not Oliver, who's she gonna tell?

O: Well she.... I'm not comfortable with her down there.

D: ::shakes head::

 

That exchange was so hilarious, and now I really want to see whatever Worst Case Scenario Oliver had in his head! Baby barf on the computers? Digglette sets off a trick arrow? Dangles dangerously from the salmon ladder?

[statsgirl]

I am so happy that Diggle and Lyla have a nanny for the baby.  I hate when shows create conflict around babysitting arrangements when the parents earn north of $250,00 (Grey's Anatomy and ER, I"m looking at you).

PS: I actually think that, while it makes me laugh when people call him a stalker, Ray isn't that bad (once I got over the 50 shades business move). I just think he is that "business all day everyday" guy who just does not care for anything but results. Mixed with a scientifically curious mind and inventor status it's pretty likely that he would be that type of boundary pushing freight train. He just wants to get things done and niceties and other social concepts get in the way of getting to work.

I think that's a great way of looking at him.  He's someone with no boundaries, somewhat Aspergy, not that he's stalking but just that he gets an idea into his head and he's already left the station running with it.  And he's the type that gets so many ideas.

 

God, this episode! It feels like it's been way too long since an Arrow episode gave me so many feels that are not at all bitter or filled with exasperation. Hi, Show, I have missed you so!

Just when I'm ready to give up on the show (and I was) they give me this.

 

 

What really annoyed me (aside from Laurel getting snippy with the cop who had the audacity not to know that the DA is out of town which automatically put Laurel in charge) was that she said no one else knows Sara is dead. That is a total lie, missie! Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, and Roy all know that Sara is dead. While Sara wasn't their blood sister, that doesn't mean they don't exist or that their grief isn't as worthy as Laurel's. For her to say that no one else knows is totally dismissive of their relationships with Sara, especially Oliver's. Secondly, telling some guy you barely know that NO ONE knows your sister is dead and you can't tell anyone sounds sooooooo shady. If someone I just met told me that, I would be giving them some serious side eye and wondering if you killed your sister and that's why you can't tell anyone.

 

It does sound shady, like something that's going to turn into a horror movie but maybe in that end of town, he's heard worse.

I think the writers were going for "Laurel is alone and so strong" but since we know that those four plus Nyssa all know Sara's dead and are mourning her, especially Nyssa who said Sara was her soulmate, it just makes it seem that Laurel is dismissing everyone else's pain but her own. 

[Pyramid]

 

What really annoyed me (aside from Laurel getting snippy with the cop who had the audacity not to know that the DA is out of town which automatically put Laurel in charge) was that she said no one else knows Sara is dead. That is a total lie, missie! Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, and Roy all know that Sara is dead. While Sara wasn't their blood sister, that doesn't mean they don't exist or that their grief isn't as worthy as Laurel's. For her to say that no one else knows is totally dismissive of their relationships with Sara, especially Oliver's. Secondly, telling some guy you barely know that NO ONE knows your sister is dead and you can't tell anyone sounds sooooooo shady. If someone I just met told me that, I would be giving them some serious side eye and wondering if you killed your sister and that's why you can't tell anyone.

But to be fair it is consistent writing. It's in the same ballpark as saying everybody left her. She always makes everything about her. It appears to be a deliberate writing choice. I can only assume they have a pay off in mind that doesn't involve everybody rolling their eyes ever time she comes out with something like this.

 

[Ariah]

Yes, I was rewatching the episode with my friend and we rolled our eyes at that "Only I know Sara's dead" line.

Let's not only add Nyssa, but also the whole League of Assasins to the list. It's getting crowdy.

 

Soon Only Quentin will be in the dark.

[Ceylon5]

Okay, Felicity and her phone are clearly the OTP of the story. She just can't stay away from it (Oliver even said that Felicity is never more that 5 feet away from her phone)!  It made me laugh when her Mom sends her the text to say she's coming to town and Felicity, who has just read the text on her Mom's phone, still walks across and checks her phone when the text comes through.  She's incapable of not responding to her phone's siren call, even when she knows who sent the text and what it said (or even if she's in a meeting with her boss and it's really not appropriate to answer her phone, as in episode 303).

 

Great Felicity one-liners:

"She'll probably be really busy planning my funeral after I die of embarrassment."

"Just one small problem...  [referring to Thea]  Not small, necessarily, but short."

"I am running out of expletives!"

"Lovers... it sounds creepy no matter how you say it."

 

I rashly gave some thought to the episode timelines and these are my conclusions:

• I'm assuming it's been at least a week since she returned from Central City (during which time she has presumably been going to work!), possibly longer, since the show has lost time to make up for (the first 4 episodes seem to have taken 2 weeks rather than the audience's 4, so they might have jumped 3 weeks here to catch up).
• For the actual episode, the whole thing seems to take place over a 24 hour period, starting, say, on a Wednesday morning.  Felicity's Mom arrives unexpectedly, but there's a jump from the early morning when her Mom arrives to the evening when the lights go out, so I'm assuming that Felicity went to work and left her mother to her own devices for the day, then went home and had dinner with her (which is what they were doing when the lights went out).  
• Felicity then springs into Arrow mode, and, with her Mom in tow, goes to the Foundry.  She does her thing for 4 hours before her mother finds her hiding out at her office (during which time her mother was babysitting, first at Verdant and then back at Felicity's house), so this must now be pretty late - at least 10pm, probably later.  Does Ray ever stop working?  He didn't seem at all surprised to find her in her office at that time of night - clearly the guy has no concept of time, which is ironic considering he's known as the "watch guy".
• The whole kidnapping thing happened in the middle of the night, so afterwards, they must have gone home and slept for a few hours.  
• When we next see Felicity, she's stopping by the Foundry on her way to work on Thursday morning, which gives her a good excuse to bail in a hurry when Oliver starts down the "you know how I feel about you" path.  Her mother decides to come to her office to say good-bye, at which point Felicity takes a "sick" day, so she can actually spend a bit of time with her Mom.  

 

So, all things considered, she's probably been working a fair amount since she started - her trip to Central City was only for a couple of days at most, and she's possibly had the job for about a month now.  It just seems like she never works to us, because we're really only shown that part of her life when it intersects with the Arrow storyline, which isn't that often.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Ceylon5

[dtissagirl]

Maybe it really is nothing, and I'm just going ~conspiracy theorist~ here, but I can't get over the boyfriend being named "Cooper Seldon". Did the show had a villain of the week before that wasn't in any way based/named after a comic book character? Not saying it didn't, just that I can't remember. But why go for a ridiculous name that is obviously a play on Sheldon from Big Bang Theory, instead of a DC-related name? Roommate got a DC name [Myron Forest], Brother Eye is a pretty big DC thing, hell, Cooper was wearing a Starro t-shirt in the flashbacks. It's just weird.

[Sunshine]

Maybe it really is nothing, and I'm just going ~conspiracy theorist~ here, but I can't get over the boyfriend being named "Cooper Seldon". Did the show had a villain of the week before that wasn't in any way based/named after a comic book character? Not saying it didn't, just that I can't remember. But why go for a ridiculous name that is obviously a play on Sheldon from Big Bang Theory, instead of a DC-related name? Roommate got a DC name [Myron Forest], Brother Eye is a pretty big DC thing, hell, Cooper was wearing a Starro t-shirt in the flashbacks. It's just weird.

I think it was the writer (BRIFORSUL) that responded to a tweet saying that it wasn't a homage on Sheldon Cooper.  They have to go through legal regarding the names and Cooper's original last name didn't clear.  The first one that did was Seldon from Hari Seldon of Asimov's Foundation books.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Sunshine

[Morrigan2575]

Oh, that is interesting.  I wonder what the last name was supposed to be originally.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

Oh, right, I forgot about that. Still doesn't explain why go with a non-DC name. And I would guess they didn't change "Cooper" after "Seldon" was cleared because they thought it was funny.

[Morrigan2575]

I was looking through his twitter feed for any other gems and I found this one

 

Love that everyone's into the Death homage. DC said we could keep the ankh or the eye of horus mascara. We choose ankh.

So the Death homage was deliberate and required DC's approval.  That's cool.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Carrie Ann]

So, all things considered, she's probably been working a fair amount since she started - her trip to Central City was only for a couple of days at most, and she's possibly had the job for about a month now.  It just seems like she never works to us, because we're really only shown that part of her life when it intersects with the Arrow storyline, which isn't that often.

 

I agree. All we've seen is her leaving the office for one reason or another, but we should assume she's been working at other times. Also, the very last scene when she gets "sick," Ray comes in saying, "I wanted to talk to you about these co-generation numbers" and he's looking at some charts on his tablet. After she walks out, he looks back at the tablet again and says, "That's actually pretty brilliant." I think we're supposed to assume she put that stuff together for him to review? It wasn't very clear, but that's what I'm going with.

 

And someone else here compared it to the Pepper/Tony dynamic, and while I don't see Felicity as Pepper, trying to see Ray as a Tony type has really helped me to appreciate him. I like him as a character right now; I like BR's performance a lot; I don't like some of his actions in light of him being an LI for Felicity, so that's where I'm getting stuck. The boss/employee dynamic is always dicey for me in romantic storylines (which is why the "you're my partner" moment was great for Olicity, and in general I saw her job as his EA as a "secret identity" situation, so the dynamic was a part of the cover and therefore didn't bug me), but adding some of the stalking, overstepping stuff is just exacerbating that weirdness.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[KenyaJ]

And someone else here compared it to the Pepper/Tony dynamic, and while I don't see Felicity as Pepper, trying to see Ray as a Tony type has really helped me to appreciate him. I like him as a character right now; I like BR's performance a lot; I don't like some of his actions in light of him being an LI for Felicity, so that's where I'm getting stuck. The boss/employee dynamic is always dicey for me in romantic storylines (which is why the "you're my partner" moment was great for Olicity, and in general I saw her job as his EA as a "secret identity" situation, so the dynamic was a part of the cover and therefore didn't bug me), but adding some of the stalking, overstepping stuff is just exacerbating that weirdness.

 

Totally agree with this, Carrie Ann. As a boss, mentor, and friend for Felicity, I like Ray a lot, and in each of those respects, I see the chemistry the producers keep talking about. I don't see romantic chemistry, though, and I'm not sure we're meant to at this point. But, in any case, him being her boss is a huge roadblock that I'm not sure I can get past. And, like you, I never had that problem with Oliver, because he's never been her boss for anything other than a convenient cover story.  

 

So as much as I enjoy watching Ray and Felicity together, my enjoyment is always tempered by the knowledge that the writers will probably try to make it romantic. And while I'm not opposed to Felicity having a (temporary) non-Oliver LI, I really, really don't want it to be her boss.

[Orion]

People generally watch the show for the action and the awesome villain and Oliver, but those three aspects were missing this episode. While, yes, there was action, it wasn't that great, the villain was half baked and predictable. Yes, the plot was weak, but that doesn't really matter because the plot was just a means to get to know Felicity better.  It wasn't meant to be the focal point. And the episode achieved its goals. We actually GOT to know Felicity better. However, some people didn't like this aspect and that's fine. We simply value different things about the episode.

 

While I agree that Cooper's part of the plot was lacking, I find that to be the case for most villains-of-the-week episodes. I wonder why reviewers decided to ding this episode in particular for that? The one off villains are often given generic or nonexistent motivations, just off the top of my head, Komodo, Vertigo, The Clock King, Firefly, Shrapnel all had about the same or less plot development behind them. I wonder if the reason people criticize Cooper and not those other villains is because Copper doesn't have the gravitas of being a DC character. That the fun of watching a comic character is enough to overcome the lack of character development?

 

I also think one of the missteps with Cooper was that they had him say that he was working for the NSA. To me the NSA is more a big brother type of organization that spies on phone calls and emails and while that works for Cooper's hacking backstory, I don't really view them as a group that would break a person down enough to turn him into a bad guy. I mean most of what Cooper would have been doing is hacking computers in office building that's not really a good reason to want to go kill your ex-girlfriend. Maybe if they had his story be that the CIA recruited him into undercover ops instead that would have worked better?

[doesntworkonwood]

While I agree that Cooper's part of the plot was lacking, I find that to be the case for most villains-of-the-week episodes. I wonder why reviewers decided to ding this episode in particular for that? The one off villains are often given generic or nonexistent motivations, just off the top of my head, Komodo, Vertigo, The Clock King, Firefly, Shrapnel all had about the same or less plot development behind them. I wonder if the reason people criticize Cooper and not those other villains is because Copper doesn't have the gravitas of being a DC character. That the fun of watching a comic character is enough to overcome the lack of character development?

 

 

That's actually a really interesting point.

 

The show isn't great about well written villains. Even Slade's arc, which had a year to occur, was absolutely flimsy and undeveloped. Manu Bennet noticed it, but not a lot of other people did.

 

I think, with this episode, because of the tone of the episode, it was more obvious that Cooper wasn't a good villain. Usually, there's a sort of overtone that makes the villain seem more menacing than they actually are, like with Vertigo, they cast an older creepier looking guy, who spent most of the time in the dark. It was the same with The Clock King, and The Dollmaker. However, in this episode, we had Cooper, a young and not very scary looking guy, who spent most of his screen time in the light, so by the time it got to his big scene, people has already decided that he wasn't scary, so they couldn't overlook the bad story line. 

 

I think that that was a consequence of having an episode around Felicity though, she's a more upbeat character so it only makes sense that an episode about her would be more upbeat in tone. They may have been able to escape the problem if they hadn't used flashbacks so much, but that would have required them to actually put a bit more thought into the pacing and the reveal. 

[wonderwall]

I think that the episode could've gone better if we saw Cooper doing evil things (present time) at the beginning and there was no 'surprise' twists when he revealed himself to Felicity. But that essentially could've made the episode 'boring' in terms of villain-of-the-week.

[Delphi]

It may just be me reading too much into references but I think the Starro shirt might have been a hint that Cooper was being/going to be controlled by someone whether it be Myron or the nsa, I don't know.

It also leads me to think that if Roy did kill Sara he is also being controlled, not necessarily by Starro but someone.

[foreverevolving]

 

I also think one of the missteps with Cooper was that they had him say that he was working for the NSA. To me the NSA is more a big brother type of organization that spies on phone calls and emails and while that works for Cooper's hacking backstory, 

 

I disagree. considering who Brother Eye is in the comics, I think the use of NSA (Because of what they do) was the perfect organization for his character. we saw that Cooper was, or so we assume, someone who wanted to inspire chaos, to do good through that chaos. for a guy like that, working for the NSA is a moral dead wish, instead of helping the little guy (wiping out student loans) he's spying on him.

I do hope we'll see more of him in the future. I think there is at least one if not more plots that can be developed.

[wingster55]

How come nobody washes out their mouth after brushing their teeth on TV? Am I the only one that does this? WTF?

 

Totally with you. Honestly her drinking coffee immediately afterwards took me right out of the scene. Bleh

[apinknightmare]

I'm rewatching, and the part where Cooper's pointing the gun at Felicity's face and he says, "You were always good, Felicity. So good. But so am I!" and then those goofy machine guns start firing, it's just so over-the-top comic book cheesey that it makes me cackle and cringe and I love, love, love its ridiculousness.

[statsgirl]

I also think one of the missteps with Cooper was that they had him say that he was working for the NSA. To me the NSA is more a big brother type of organization that spies on phone calls and emails and while that works for Cooper's hacking backstory, I don't really view them as a group that would break a person down enough to turn him into a bad guy. I mean most of what Cooper would have been doing is hacking computers in office building that's not really a good reason to want to go kill your ex-girlfriend. Maybe if they had his story be that the CIA recruited him into undercover ops instead that would have worked better?

But if  you look at Cooper closely, he never really was a good guy. That's what makes him interesting to me.  

 

He and Felicity worked on hacking into some bank? federal loan database?. She did it because she wanted the challenge of doing it.  He did it because he wanted to wipe out all the student loans, which on the surface may sound like a nice thing or the right thing but if you look at it more closely, it's disruptive and causes even more problems down the line, and he sprung it on her after she had hacked in, probably because he knew she never would have agreed to it if she had known.  This pattern of believing you are the only right one without connection to generally accepted morality is kind of sociopath. And the belief that doing this will make him a hero is narcissistic.

 

Not making contact with Felicity during those five years and leaving her to bear the burden of his suicide also speaks to a lack of empathy to others on his part, especially bad since they were lovers.

 

So the raw material was there.  Add that to five years working for a super powerful agency that believes it has the right and responsibility to throw out the window established legal and personal freedoms, and you've got a guy who thinks it's his right to disrupt the city and steal all that money because he can do it.

 

On cooper, I definitely think he started with a kernel of resentment that felicity was better than he was, but was sincere mostly in the prison visit scene, and then over time his resentment grew. Especially when he saw she basically moved on with her life and was successful.

I think he did resent that she was better than he was.  Maybe he even said took credit for the virus because that made him look good.  But as for moving on, so did he and probably earned more money than she did.

[tv echo]

I wouldn't be surprised if Oliver used his ARGUS connections to put Cooper in that island prison - you know, to be roomies with that other sociopath who almost killed Felicity.

 

Regarding the Felicity working issue, this computer guy that I know doesn't work regular office hours.  He always has his laptop with him and works all hours of the day and night.  As long as he gets his projects done on time, it's not an issue for his boss.  Felicity could be the same way.  She could be doing a lot of work at home or at odd hours, so as long as she gets her assignments done, it should be fine with Roy.  She only needs to be in the office for meetings and such.  Even then, a lot of meetings are held via Skype now.  It would be different if she worked at a job that required her to be in the workplace all or most of the day - like, say, a receptionist, a doctor or a lawyer.

 

More on the Diggle costume issue - Both Oliver and Roy are archers, so they're both wearing the hooded costume that was based on Robin Hood.  Diggle is not an archer, so if he were to get a costume, it should look totally different.  Anyway, I've imagined this conversation between Oliver and Diggle...

 

Oliver:  "Now that you're back on the team, I was thinking that we need to get you a mask and leather suit - maybe in blue."
Diggle:  "Hell, no!"

Edited November 8, 2014 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

Watching the episode again and in that scene where Felicity tells Oliver (and the rest of the team) about her days as a "hacktivist," I got the sense Oliver didn't fully realize until now just how scary Felicity could be with her computer skills. When she says "I created this," there's a shot of Oliver drawing a quick, almost involuntary, breath.

[yellowfred]

I really liked that moment.  I think, most of the time, Team Arrow tends to think of Felicity's skill-set as something super helpful but mostly benign (hence, she's the "normal person" at the beginning of the episode), and the show tends to present her that way as well.  I liked how, in this episode, they were basically saying that the only reason Felicity Smoak hasn't actually taken over the world is because she chooses not to. 

 

On a side note, I appreciated that she seemed to realize how stupid the word "hacktivist" is.  Also, "lovers."

[TrueMyth]

I've seen much commentary on the anvilicious "choosing the black" done by Laurel, but I was struck by the equally ham-fisted  manner in which Felicity made her transition from rebel goth to toe-the-line prep.  Both scenes exemplify the heavy-handedness of the writers.  Laurel could have say, picked out the only black sweats from a pile of other colors, for example.  However, I understand what the writers were trying to do and I don't expect great subtlety from this show (or at least not in the writing).

 

What I do think is interesting about these two moments, from a narrative perspective, is the complete reversal they set up for these two ladies.  Laurel chooses the black; Felicity throws the black in a trash bag.  Felicity actively pursues the lighter side of things; Laurel is spiraling down into darkness and vengeance.  It would be interesting to see this explored through scenes between them that don't involve the active pursuit of leads on this case or that.  I don't hold much hope that we'll see the relationship develop, but I think it could only help Laurel's character establish some sort of balance, and I'd love to see Felicity show Laurel a bit of her metal.

[BkWurm1]

Two things, first, a time line complaint because I can't help myself.

So Mama Smoak confronts Felicity at her work and they have a fight about her keeping her waiting which explodes into all their buried resentments and fears. Then Felicity goes back to the Arrow Cave where Oliver urges her to go talk to her mom who is back at her house.

When Mama Smoak showed up at QC, she said she'd been waiting two hours at the club and another two hours at the house. We know she started Digglet watching at the club and we know ARGUS picked up Wee Sara at Felicity's house right before Felicity went there to talk things out after she and her mom had the fight, so....where was Sara when Donna was at QC?

Yeah, I've got nothing that makes any sense of that one.

The other comment I wanted to make is more of an observation. It's was impressive enough when Donna revealed she worked sixty hours a weeks as a cocktail waitress to bring up her genius girl, but she said she worked for tips. I know wait staff gets that tiny hourly wage but it sounds like Donna didn't even have that guarantee when she went into work. I don't know why, but that keeps sticking in my head.

[Ceylon5]

I didn't have a problem with that part of the timeline, because ARGUS could have picked up Sara from Donna at Felicity's home before she went in search of Felicity at her office (which is why she was then free to go and look for her daughter).  The two were just too busy fighting at that point for Felicity to think to ask about the baby.  Her mother didn't specify exactly when the baby was picked up.

 

The part of the timeline/plot that didn't make any conceivable sense was Diggle saying he'd sent ARGUS to collect Sara and they could go back and check on Felicity - which implied that he'd sent them to her house so recently that they'd still be in the area (otherwise why couldn't one of the guys go and check Felicity's place just as easily as ARGUS?).  We know that ARGUS must have collected Sara at the very latest an hour plus (depending on how long it takes Felicity to get home) before Oliver and Diggle started worrying because Felicity hadn't come back (i.e. even if Sara had inexplicably been picked up just before Felicity arrived, this still would have been an hour before anyone would think to worry about Felicity).  The whole ARGUS/baby bit didn't make any sense to me - if they were an option in the first place, why did Diggle ask Felicity's Mom to babysit?  It was all very contrived so that everyone could do their thing without the baby factor confusing the issue.  This is the trouble with introducing babies into the plot!

[Genki]

The timeline for baby Sara's movement is so weird…but I hand waved because good character story goes a long way for me to not nitpick, also the mention of the Argus Babysitting division. Too funny!!

 

For me I was also initially bemused by the timing of the Oliver/Felicity final scene in the Arrow cave. When Felicity comes down she is  in a different outfit that she will wear to work for the day.

 

For Felicity I assume following timeline from when she pistol whips Cooper.

 

Waits for Police to arrest Cooper > give statement > go home with Mom> sleep> get up crazy early and visit Oliver before starting work

 

When Felicity enters the Foundry Oliver seems to be hanging the Arrow suit up, as if just back in the Foundry, changed, hang up suit. Now I take this as confirmation that  he actually does wash the hood…which really has been bugging me a while, because really it would have to smell right? 

 

One small detail I really did like was  when Oliver is leaning on Felicity's chair and she comes back from QC. He basically swings it around for Felicity then back into position for her and she just sits herself down without looking or paying attention, because she know Oliver will take care of it. It's like a mini substitute shoulder touch. 

[TrueMyth]

 

When Felicity enters the Foundry Oliver seems to be hanging the Arrow suit up, as if just back in the Foundry, changed, hang up suit. Now I take this as confirmation that  he actually does wash the hood…which really has been bugging me a while, because really it would have to smell right?

Maybe he went on to patrol the city in the early morning hours an was just finishing storing everything before going to sleep?

[catrox14]

My fanwank is that the storage compartment for the outfit cleans the outfit too. Like it has some kind of system that kills all the germs.

[statsgirl]

The timeline is weird, but if you take it as Diggle sent the ARGUS agent to Felicity's house before Donna showed up at the QC offices, which is why she could do there, it works.  Diggle saying that he sent an ARGUS agent just means that someone from ARGUS is now free to be able to go over to Felicity's house and see if she's all right.  

 

Oliver just handing up his suit is also strange but since Felicity is on her way to work (presumably Donna slept in)

 

I wonder what she did about the front door that was broken down, did she just go off to work like that, or did someone come by (Roy?  he wasn't much) and nail some wood over it.

 

The other comment I wanted to make is more of an observation. It's was impressive enough when Donna revealed she worked sixty hours a weeks as a cocktail waitress to bring up her genius girl, but she said she worked for tips. I know wait staff gets that tiny hourly wage but it sounds like Donna didn't even have that guarantee when she went into work. I don't know why, but that keeps sticking in my head.

I don't know what it's like in Las Vegas but where I live, servers have a much lower minimum wage than other employees because it is assumed that they will make up the difference in tips.  (Which is twisted because they have to please the customers as well as their employers to earn their money but that's a different issue.)  I thought what Donna meant was that with just the salary she was given as a waitress, it wouldn't have been enough to support both her and Felicity so she had to wear six inch high heels so she looked really sexy and would get more money in tips.

 

I've seen much commentary on the anvilicious "choosing the black" done by Laurel, but I was struck by the equally ham-fisted  manner in which Felicity made her transition from rebel goth to toe-the-line prep.  Both scenes exemplify the heavy-handedness of the writers.  Laurel could have say, picked out the only black sweats from a pile of other colors, for example.  However, I understand what the writers were trying to do and I don't expect great subtlety from this show (or at least not in the writing).

 

What I do think is interesting about these two moments, from a narrative perspective, is the complete reversal they set up for these two ladies.  Laurel chooses the black; Felicity throws the black in a trash bag.  Felicity actively pursues the lighter side of things; Laurel is spiraling down into darkness and vengeance.  It would be interesting to see this explored through scenes between them that don't involve the active pursuit of leads on this case or that.  I don't hold much hope that we'll see the relationship develop, but I think it could only help Laurel's character establish some sort of balance, and I'd love to see Felicity show Laurel a bit of her metal.

I've been admiring (I know, strange to say about this show) the contrast between the journeys of Laurel and Felicity.  Back in Birds of Prey, I think Helena said to Laurel that once you let the darkness in, you can't get rid of it (or something like that).  Laurel is embracing the darkness, first her anger at Oliver and Sara, and then at her parents, and now at Sara's killer.  She's going dark, choosing black, lashing out in her anger, and now controlling it but still fueled by anger.

 

In contrast, Felicity has had a much harder life, losing her father at 6, her mother working very long hours, growing up with the expectation she would be a cocktail waitress too, Cooper committing suicide, and during the time of the show Walter being kidnapped, not being able to save the man in Salvation, and getting kidnapped and Slade.  But instead of darkness, she deliberately choosing light.  She's cheerful and funny not because she hasn't had any hardship in her life but because she has and she deals with it by concentrating on the light.  You can't get away from the bad stuff, but as Viktor Frankl said, you can choose how you deal with it.

 

I think that's a big reason why I find Felicity's story more pleasant than Laurel's.  Their choices remind me of a poem by Ogden Nash.  I can't do the graphics here so you have to imagine them:

 

 

 

Wisest of their proverbs, Truest of their talk, Have I found that dictum:
CROSS C H I L D R E N WALK .
When Adam took the highway, He left his sons a guide:
CROSS C H I L D R E N WALK ; CHEERFUL C H I L D R E N RIDE

[foreverevolving]

I wonder what she did about the front door that was broken down, did she just go off to work like that, or did someone come by (Roy?  he wasn't much) and nail some wood over it.

 

Got your door broken by your crazy-Ex goons for hire? Maybe you require a last minute babysitter while you're busy vigilanting? Or perhaps you're just in a desperate need of well trained, to hire, assassins to help you take down a mirakuru hyped army?

 

Well worry no more!!

The Suicide Squad is here to help

Just call 1800-AW-ARGUS

 

Disclaimer: Argus is by no way, means or form responsible for any deaths that may or may not occur while using our services. our prisoners are 100% insane (except for Harley she's 1000% insane- which is why we don't let her come out and play) and tend to rebel; which is why they have a deathly chip in their head, so we can blow them up if they do. Which, as mentioned above, may result in deaths, of which ARGUS is not responsible for in any shape or form.

 

 

 

Man. This show really bring out the comedian in me in ways no other show has ever done before. I like it.

 

ETA: Now i really need to turn this into an actual flyer.

Edited November 9, 2014 by foreverevolving

[LeeshY]

And finally....a confident Thea! Just loving her this season, so mature and self-assured, it's magnificent to behold.

 

Could not have said it better. There was something about Thea, even when running her own club and being lied to by pretty much everyone, I couldn't get behind her character or drum up the sympathy I guess we were supposed to have.  Well done writers for giving her some backbone and confidence that is hers. Even if she ends up turning dark, she's transitioning into the bad ass that Sara, Felicity and pretty much every female from the League of Assassins demonstrate in their own way. I like her warped but weirdly wonderful relationship with Malcolm, and hey, if he can bring out that kind of transformation by simply throwing reality in her face (which technically is something Oliver maybe should have done) then all the better. And hey - there is your story arc for why she decides to turn on Oliver - Malcolm trusted her more than pretty much anyone in her family. Even if he is a psychotic mass murder....

 

Laurel on the other hand, it just isn't getting better. No matter how much they try to make her seem stronger her bad ass is more butt hurt and they need to just have her tell her father, break his heart, not handle being shunned by him, then skip off with her sister's ex to be trained far far away (for at least a season) then come back and maybe....MAYBE...be a  bit more believable when it comes to being a strong kick ass character and possible Team Arrow member.  

 

I have to say it - I did sorta have a small "ha, called it!" moment when Roy's little dream thing happened. Even if it turns out to be a red-herring, it a smart move by the writing team as no one expects (or believes) it and creates all sorts of possibilities (and episodes) on building the backstory.  

 

I really enjoyed this episode, not only because of the backstory on Felicity (which she richly deserved) but to show her having a passionate, sexy, and obsessive-in-a-sweet-college-way relationship with a guy (we've all been there). It was well written; she was in confident control and not the soupy crushing on Oliver girl she's sometimes portrayed. I've liked Felicity's character and have felt they were doing her a small disservice, so it was refreshing to see her in a different light, getting flirty interest from people other than Oliver, showing how much power she can wield. I'm ready for HER to become super bad ass, with Oliver playing the soupy crushing on Felicity role.  

 

I am also hoping Ray Palmer stays on the side of good, at least for now, as he's perfect for Felicity's love interest. She and Oliver never quite gel as a romance for me, it's like watching second cousins trying to convince themselves it's OK. With Barry it would be too obvious. But with Ray, come on...that couple would be a force and frankly the triangle they could spin with Oliver is easy writing. The stronger their relationship becomes the more she pulls away from standard and comes into her own, and when Ray finally does leave (or turns evil and gets killed or disappears..yada yada...) the company is given to Felicity. Suddenly Oliver needs her not just because she's the brains of the operation, but because, well, she really can keep the lights on.

 

(speaking of which he can afford a lair and all these toys and a cell phone plan but can't afford his own flat? Reality suspended, but at some point explanation needed).

 

As a side note the whole Hong Kong flashback is boring. Either ramp it up with some interesting tie in or let it go and try a non-Oliver centric flashback. Like maybe Thea's transition and building of her relationship with Malcolm.  

[blackwing]

I enjoyed almost everything about this episode.  It was lighthearted and fun.  Ending was weird.  I couldn't tell if Malcolm was looking disapprovingly at the thought that Oliver was going to live with Thea, or if he was impassively and sinisterly looking at his plan falling into place.  Funny that they were watching a Joan Crawford movie, I think it was "Possessed".  Was this some kind of commentary on "Mommie Dearest" Moira Dearden Queen?  Or a hint that Roy is possessed?  I'm assuming Roy didn't really kill Sarah.

 

Worst part of the episode was Ray Palmer.  Are they setting him up to turn into The Atom and give him his own spin-off too?  Because Brandon Routh is a horrible actor and has zero charm.  And he has crazy crazy eyes.

 

The look of Roy's costume is terrible.  Something about it looks so very feminine.

[quarks]

My seriously delayed response to an equally seriously delayed viewing of this episode:

 

Good things:  

 

1. Donna Smoak, easily the highlight of the episode. It's tricky to combine comedy and drama, and in particular, combine comedy, drama and a silly stunt sequence with motion capture guns, but her complete incompetence with cell phones (my mother is the same, Felicity; I feel you), her thrill over meeting Felicity's friends, the way she was trying so hard not to badmouth Felicity's father despite her very real (and completely understandable) anger that Felicity is angry at her and not the guy that blew them both off.  Bring her back, Arrow, please. It won't quite make up for losing Moira Queen (nothing makes up for losing Moira Queen) but it's a start.

 

2. "Why can't you just quietly have sex under a comforter like most college students?"  In their defense, college roommate, they seem like the type of couple who would rip apart a comforter doing that and Felicity doesn't seem like the sort who has money to replace comforters on a regular basis.

 

3. This is a minor point, but I liked that the show had Donna and Felicity eating burgers on the floor right before Brother Eye came on, doing some attempt at bonding before all of the rest of the stuff.

 

4. "Who's she going to tell, Oliver?" And once again, David Ramsey justifies his entire presence on the show.  I know I keep saying it, but more Diggle, show!!!

 

5. Can we all take a moment to applaud the missing District Attorney in this episode? Sure, taking a vacation and being completely MIA during a city wide crisis is not usually the sort of thing I applaud DAs for, but, to be fair, Starling City seems to have city wide crises every week or so and that stress has got to take a toll on a DA, so kudos to the DA for a moment of self care, plus, I do feel I have to note that this is the first DA in the entire run of the show who was not shown acting unethically, getting kidnapped, being completely incompetent or getting killed. You go, nameless DA.  Hope to continue not seeing you around.

 

6. Speaking of which, I'll get into Laurel later, but I love that the show continues to be consistent on this if on no other point: the complete incompetence of the DA's Office.  We've gone from season one's prosecuting the wrong people and not prosecuting the right people and offering questionable deals to billionaire suspects and getting kidnapped and killed for this, to season two's ongoing kidnapping, corruption and putting an untested prosecutor with connections to the defendant in a capital crime, using nearly disbarred recovering alcoholic attorneys in sting operations, and getting murdered to "Screw this, I'm off on vacation without, you know, bothering to tell my temporary replacement that she's replacing me, much less explain about the appropriate times to send in riot squads." Yay for consistency!

 

7. Felicity calling Oliver out on secretive pasts. 

 

8. Hey, emotionally supportive Oliver is back! We knew you could do it, dude!

 

9. In the fight between arrow and rocket launcher, arrow wins. YAY!  

 

Questionable things:

 

1. Show. Opening on a fight training scene with Oliver and Roy and -- having them both wearing shirts?  Show! Have you forgotten what you are?  Why we watch?  YOUR BRANDING?  I am disappointed, show, truly.  Disappointed.

 

2. This is a minor point, but if those are real fires in Thea's apartment, then Oliver, as long as you are making moral judgements about the way other people spend their money and time and where they get their money from, you might also want to ask Thea why she's wasting wood/gas on fires before she even has a stick of furniture in the place.

 

3. Is this the first time Thea has tried to open the Foundry door?

 

4. Ray, but I think I need to take this to the relationships thread.

 

5. Oliver, I don't want to leap to conclusions or anything, but it's just barely possible that Felicity might be able to know how you feel about her if you, say, got your act together and actually went out with her. Just a thought!

 

6. In the fight between arrow and rocket launcher, arrow wins. Um!

 

Bad things:

 

1. Let me get this straight: the villain of the week is supposed to be a) a former MIT student and b) someone who knows Felicity and her capabilities, and yet, c) is simultaneously stupid enough to not check Felicity OR her mother for electronic devices (Felicity easily could have also had something in her shoe!) AND leave Felicity within reach of a computer AND fail to see if other WiFi devices were in the area? WHAT IS THIS, SHOW? Felicity deserves an INTELLIGENT adversary, not this. 

 

2. In the fight between arrow and rocket launcher, arrow wins. I loved this but "ridiculous" is an understatement.

 

And, now, sigh, Laurel.

 

I've argued elsewhere that the writers don't actually like Laurel/KC. As proof, this episode, where in about three minutes, Laurel goes right back to being the worst again: 

 

1. Laurel misusing her DA powers to send a riot squad out for a very tiny riot.

 

2. Laurel failing to remember that this show does not have the budget to hire enough extras to have a large enough riot requiring the riot squad and that the extras are all frankly too tired from working a scene over at the Flash to riot much over on Arrow anyway. Ok, that's unfair.

 

3. Every character on the show, from Oliver to Quentin to Ted to the beat cop explicitly telling the audience (not just Laurel; Oliver's line was directed at Team Arrow and the audience) that Laurel is an incompetent screwup.

 

4. Laurel continuing to tell a stupid and pointless lie to her father. 

 

5. Laurel struggling to learn basic boxing, immediately followed by Thea's complete competence at whatever her stunt double had mastered in just seven months.

 

This in an episode that also shows us that Felicity is capable of taking over the world, or at least robbing a lot of banks, but chooses not to do so, in stark contrast to Laurel immediately abusing her authority (although I guess I can give her a pass there because, let's face it, it doesn't sound as if the DA's office is doing much training on when you should send in riot squads and when you shouldn't.)

 

But the big point is number 3. Sometimes shows/books do create situations where the character starts off completely unloved and despised and constantly criticized by other characters. It can also be a pretty powerful narrative device for a hero's journey, pulling down and isolating a hero before the upwards climb. We do, as readers/viewers, usually need to feel some sympathy. (Not always.) But in this case, we are dealing with a character who has hit rock bottom again and again and then for fun again, and then, again, and whose major issue is not so much being despised in show, but being critiqued by the audience.

 

And in this situation, what does this episode do? It tells us, multiple times, that we are right to question Laurel: that Laurel really is incompetent (pointed out by four separate characters), that Laurel is governed by anger (pointed out by two characters), that Laurel's anger is getting innocent people hurt (pointed out by three separate characters), and that Laurel's anger is hitting inappropriate targets (four characters.)  

 

The only mitigating factor here is that Laurel is hurting from the murder of sister, something that would throw anyone for a loop, and something that should make Laurel sympathetic. But the show doesn't dwell on this mitigating factor, primarily because Laurel's main interactions are with the three characters that don't know anything about it, rather than the characters who do know. Contrast, for instance, Oliver's supportive moment of Felicity, where he tells her - and the audience - that it's ok to be off your game and take a moment to work things through when your mother is driving you bonkers.  Felicity can have this moment, because Oliver just met and knows about Donna. Laurel can't, because )(*)(&(*(*^&^*((& no one has bothered to tell Quentin the truth yet.  

 

So instead of being sympathetic, Laurel comes off as the worst again - and this, in a superhero show, where we aren't supposed to be cheering for the worst.

 

Also, can someone please tell Quentin? 

[SleepDeprived]

9. In the fight between arrow and rocket launcher, arrow wins. YAY!

 

You know, I've been wondering about that. Not the arrow vs rocket launcher bit because, lol, so ridiculous (but awesome), but the part where the thieves were going to launch a rocket at the Dept. of Treasury truck they were trying to steal. Wouldn't that blow up the money, too? I mean, sure, there may be some non-flaming, non- ashy cash leftover after the blast but that would mean more work for them since they would have to pick up/net the monies scattered in the wind. A rocket launcher just seems like an over-the-top, inefficient weapon to use for a robbery crew headed by an MIT drop-out.

 

I also wonder if Mama Smoak and Felicity ever got around to discussing exactly why it was the Arrow that came to their rescue, and not 911/the cops. Did Felicity tell Donna that she's been working with Arrow, on the down low, and that's how she has his contact information memorized and he answers her calls/texts so quickly? At Felicity's office, before she left for her flight, Mama Smoak did say that she knew Felicity would be busy that night. I wonder if she knows or, at least, suspects that her genius, darling daughter is hero-ing it up with SC's vigilantes.

Edited November 12, 2014 by SleepDeprived

[quarks]

Wouldn't that blow up the money, too?

 

 

These guys did not strike me as particularly intelligent criminals. 

[TanyaKay]

My seriously delayed response to an equally seriously delayed viewing of this episode:

 

I have been stalking your profile for a week for your review. So glad you posted it finally.

You have no idea how much I love your index where Laurel fails as a human being and as a lawyer. Hopefully, you will another dimension of Laurel failing as a vigilante to it now that she has gotten a mask and all.

 

I legit laughed out loud at your praise of nameless/faceless DA.

And yeay for more Mama Smoak. Looks like Paul Blackthorne is doing some serious twitter campaigning to make Mama Smoak Captain Lance's love interest.